This because if they do that could quickly cause problems. (Also somewhat of an egopost )In post 5915, ferretlover wrote:Is it possible for the Mafia to get Cop/Vig?
[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion
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Yeah fool is the Epic Mafia equivalent of MS's Jester.
Also regardless of "statistical analysis" Odd fool does have an advantage, because we play in the real world, not in the random world.
What would the Mad Scientist get if he targets;
{Fool, Town}
{Fool, Scum}Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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I think your missing my point slightly, if everyone random lynched, then the Odd and Even fool would be about the same, but games aren't based on randomness but on logic, hence the odd fool has a lot more of a strategic advantage because they get the first chance at directing a non random lynch at themselves.In post 5934, Junpei wrote:The odd fool has a .08% advantage overall.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Too Anti-town sided.In post 5944, ferretlover wrote:I just wanted to make an open setup
1x Jailkeeper
1x Seer
1x Cop
1x Miller
4x Vanilla Townie
3x Werewolf
3x Mafia Goon
Thoughts?
8v3v3 is not a good setup because town can't Mislynch, and could STILL lose.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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Very swingy, looks kinda really fun.In post 5943, LlamaFluff wrote:Also playing around with...
Forget Me Not
Town (10)
2x Amnesic Cop
1x Amnesic Cop or Deputy (random)
7x Vanilla
Mafia (3)
1x Messenger
1x Godfather or Roleblocker (Random)
1x Goon
Messenger is basically a fake Amnesic Cop
For those who don't know Amnesic Cop targets Player X and Y. The investigation result on X goes to Y
does Y get told who X is?Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Always assume worse case scenario for a little inkling in the setup.In post 5950, ferretlover wrote:Why can't town mislynch
even if it is 6v3v3 the town hasn't lost yet.
both scum factions are trying to kill off the opposing faction
Spoiler: Loss for town
Not only did they never mislynch, they lost the game.
Try to remember this, it's a 14 player game.
13 player games generally have a MAXIMUM of 4 anti-town members for balance reasons (any more and it can be impossible for them to win)Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Even if you fix the blatant win condition error, i would say this game is highly king sided, especially if he random quick lynches (eg. doesn't give much away on who his king's guard is)In post 5979, Natirasha wrote:Alright, so I've run a setup similar to this a long time ago, but does anyone see any problems with this set up.
1x King
2x King's Guards
2x Revolutionaries
4x Townies
King gets to choose someone to execute each day. His guards know each other, but otherwise have no abilities. King can't be killed for as long as guards are alive. All 3 win when Revolutionaries win.
Revolutionaries act as a town-aligned Mafia of sorts. Can talk to each other, have a nightkill. Win when the king is dead.
Townies are just townies without a vote.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Now that the current Version of the game has finished i will post the setup here and get thoughts.
1- Town 1-shot Global Watcher
1- Town 2-shot Doctor
5- Town Vanilla Townies (Must visit someone each night)
1- Mafia 2-shot Rolecop
1- Mafia 2-shot Roleblocker
A mafia member cannot perform the kill and their ability
Everyone must target someone to visit at night. (to possibly shroud the scum kill etc.)
If the doctor is roleblocked they lose their shot, if the Global Watcher is roleblocked they retain their shot.
Test Game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28648
I actually think it would be an interesting setup to actually have run in the open queue myself.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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The difference is that it could be ran in the Open queue?
I'll probably run one every now and then in the micro queue regardless but it'd be nice to have it as a certified open setup,like egoboosting to know my setup is that popularand so that i possibly can you know, play in the setups.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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No because of the odd/even night rule.Cheery Dog wrote:
Don't you mean that if that vig dies, one of the 3 is confirmed scum? (or one is confirmed vig?) The game breaking strategy would need a bit more work than just that.In post 6001, LlamaFluff wrote:D1 vig claims, lynch as normal but have three non-doc players chosen by town forceably target vig. That vig will live, any "vig" who didn't die is confirmed scum. Its getting to the semi-game breaking stage of things if you are calling scum a killing role.
(though them living would confirm the 3 targetting to either all be town or all scum)Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Here's the problem.
3 Mafia
2 Cops
5 Vanilla Townies
3 Millers
Is basically how the setup turns out, more often then not the Millers will be the strongest townie players, and unless lynched will survive till a LYLO situation.
Hence why the number of marks that scum place should be minimized as much as possible, because the likelihood of the 3 getting lynched at all (even with a claimed cop guilty) is low.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Executioner Mafia
3 X Town Executioner/1-shot Governor
4 X Vanilla Townie
1 X Mafia Executioner/1-shot Janitor
1 X Mafia 1-shot Day killer
Mechanics: Nightless
Role reveals are based on what's selected and is divided into the following
Alignment, Role Name Part 1, Role Name Part 2
At the end of each day there is a 48 hour period of Twilight between the lynch going through and the next day
Executioners pick either one of the 3 parts of the role reveal or to use their 1-shot ability
Town Executioners/1-shot Governors - The ability is to stop said lynch from going through, however upon doing this, the Executioner becomes esentually a Vanilla Townie
Mafia Executioner/1-shot Janitor- At any time this executioner may choose to instead of stopping the lynch, make it go through with NO Role information given, this overrides the Governors and the Governors will stay executioner's, however you STAY an executioner regardless
If role name part 1/2 aren't both gotten the name part will be "Vanilla" or "Townie" regardless.
The idea is that the Mafia Executioner still has to pick something to reveal, in mass claim this game is not broken because of the day killer.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Actually the above is a good point, death happens before recruitment thus the dead guy could be either the cult recruit or the cult recruiter.
But given that knowledge it should still be a 2/5 chance, as the cult-recruiter should just recruit the dead guy's biggest town read/not recruit his scum read.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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If the strong man live he is one shot, either he gets rid of the one-shot cop, or the Odd night Vigilante, he can't get rid of both.
Knights should be able to at least somewhat co-ordinate protects, though it's doubtful that one would protect a VT, it's possible.
Mafia counterclaiming puts them in a harder postion, as it bring's out 1v1's.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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It depends on how it's played as to what win chance it has.
7/5
58% chance of lynching town
42% chance of lynching scum.
From there it stays around the same odds.
The fact that scum are going to avoid lynching each otherGenerallyit makes it more town sided in some ways and scum sided in a lot of ways.
However i as scum, wouldn't mind bussing a weak scum player to eliminate a strong town player.
I think all in all, it's probably fairly 50/50 win chance givenRealParameters (less taking randomness into account)Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Lets go worse case scenario for a secondIn post 6209, Roxxar wrote:So someone told me to post my open-setup here... No, this is not for these forums, it's for another who was interested in the game.
ohai someone told me to come here. My set-up is open, so I thought posting here should help.
Special Mafia(I don't have a specific name)
3 Mafia
1 SK
5 Vanilla Townies
1 Cop
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Jack-of-all-trades
Mafia has 3 one-shot abilities, and SK has 4.
-One Mafia member has:
1) Protectionability (Basically Doctor)
2) Factional kill protection (Factional kill cannot be roleblocked)
3) Roleblock (Roleblock).
-Another mafia member has:
1) Role-cop ability
2) Hiding ability (Cannot be investigated, protected, killed, or roleblocked)
3) Factional kill protection (Factional kill cannot be prevented via Doctor)
-The last Mafia member has:
1) Poisoning ability (Poisons one person. Person dies the next night if he isn't protected by the doctor.)
2) Roleblock ability,
3) Jailkeeper ability (Protects everyone, but the factional kill and any other ability will not happen)
The SK has 4 special abilities.
1) If the SK's kill goes through, the next lynch costs 1 less vote.
2) If the SK's kill goes through, he gets to kill the person he was targeting the next night. (Only this kill, not this kill and another one for the night)
3) Kill bypasses Doctors, but not Roleblocks.
4) Kill bypasses Roleblocks, but not Doctors.
NOTE: Once again, all of these abilities that the Mafia and SK has are ONE-SHOT only.
Mafia kill SK N1, and poison the cop, SK kills the doctor and sets up ability 2 to kill the jack of all trades.
Town is fucked anally.
Way's to fix: Give mafia11-shot ability each, they are way to overpowered.
SK, 1) is ridiculously overpowered. 2) isn't blocked by being killed? 3) is useful, 4) is wasteful, as unless the JoAT has a roleblock (P.S. what does the roleblocker have?) then simply by eliminating the mafia, this is useless.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Agree with FF.In post 6213, fferyllt wrote:
With that many scum, and with having to sacrifice one of their own at night if town are lynched during the day phase, the associative stuff really piles up.In post 6212, LlamaFluff wrote:
Actually it changes fastIn post 6208, JasonWazza wrote:It depends on how it's played as to what win chance it has.
7/5
58% chance of lynching town
42% chance of lynching scum.
From there it stays around the same odds.
7/5 = 42/58
6/4 = 40/60
5/3 = 37/63
4/2 = 33/67
3/1 = 25/75
Town wins in lynch patters of
SSS
SSTS
SSTTS
STSS
STSTS
STTSS
TSSS
TSTSS
TSSTS
TTSSS
Town wins at 24% of the time
It would be interesting to see this game played out a few times. I think town will do a lot better than a 24% win rate.
Also Llama, i think you missed the part where town areallowedto no lynch to make the numbers more even.
i'd guess a 3-1 MYLO you would take the kill and make it 2-1Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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So your going to lie to players rather then have it beneficial for players to lie?
Cop with a Lied about innocent is just as bad as encouraging players to lie.
Town Macho watcher with a Mafia Roleblocker and Town Doctor is fucking over powered for scum
What your basically doing is making what is slightly town sided, into massively scum sided.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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GodfatherIn post 6225, Rob14 wrote:Godfather is an extremely standard and normal role. It's not lying to a player, especially when you open up the setup so they KNOW it's a possibility. It means they have to analyze their results with what they know from day-play.
A watcher is super powerful. They give incredible incentive for the mafia NOT to kill someone who's incredibly town and seen as such by a lot of people in the game, which is a massive power for the town. What do you think is massively over-powered for scum about it?
B: Originally, Amrun pushed for a cop to not be included in Matrix6B at all. The reasoning behind that is that newbie setups should emphasize day play, which we both agree on, and a Cop is the top-of-the-ladder of night-play heavy roles. The alternative was the Godfather. I wouldn't be horribly opposed to turning the Godfather into a RoleCop, though, with the understanding that it affects Setup #1.
C: The alternative to Doc/Macho Watcher/Roleblocker is to take the Macho modifier off the Macho Watcher and change the Doctor to a lesser protective role. We considered this, but the only role we could think of that would balance and have the intended effects would be a Bodyguard, which we both agreed has no place in a newbie setup. A successful protect would lead to death, which would be bitter sweet for someone playing their first game. Does anyone have any other alternatives we may have missed?ISLying to a player, whether standard or not, 1-shot BP is also standardish (about as standard as Godfather i think) So effectively your changing the liar to being the mod.
A. Yes watcher is super powerful, but if he claims at all he is dead, and if he is found at all he is dead, and then doctor's play is to attempt to not protect a Watcher.
B. I wouldn't mind seeing Godfather be a Rolecop instead, it moves away from the Cop innos basically being useless.
C. Personally i would say body guard is alrightButMaybe make it a 1-shot doctor?Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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SK's generally have a bulletproof (whether it be 1-shot or multiple-shot) that blocks the night action side of the "One Vs All"In post 6234, Roxxar wrote:
Thanks for some actual advice. Haven't gotten any in like forever.In post 6214, JasonWazza wrote:
Lets go worse case scenario for a second
Mafia kill SK N1, and poison the cop, SK kills the doctor and sets up ability 2 to kill the jack of all trades.
Town is fucked anally.
Way's to fix: Give mafia11-shot ability each, they are way to overpowered.
SK, 1) is ridiculously overpowered. 2) isn't blocked by being killed? 3) is useful, 4) is wasteful, as unless the JoAT has a roleblock (P.S. what does the roleblocker have?) then simply by eliminating the mafia, this is useless.
JoAT does have a roleblock ability. There is no Roleblocker role in specific. Should I remove a Vanilla Townie for one?
The SK's abilities are that overpowered because it's kinda hard to play as (Being alone and an all vs. one sorta deal) and I wanted to attempt to even out the playing field. That obviously didn't work because now the SK is a bit overpowered.
So any tips on how to fix the SK? The Mafia is definitely being reduced to 1 ability, and I might remove a Vanilla Townie for a Roleblocker.
Let the SK have a 1-shot Strongman kill the breaches everything (i don't see the point of giving them something that goes through one of {Roleblock, Doctor} as that is basically fucking the SK anally) or a 1-shot poison that is a day delayed (but remember the poison add's a kill and always take that into account for balance.)
Then you get the SK to a point of "If your play is good enough you will win"Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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The suggestion i made was with the Macho being removed from the watcher.In post 6237, Amrun wrote: I'm pretty confused by JasonWazza saying something is scum sided and then suggesting that the power be decreased?Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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In post 6244, Amrun wrote:Yeah, a doc+watcher is not going to happen.1-shot doctor and watcher
Jesus i swear you can't keep a conversation going longer then the post i'm in.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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A) there's 13 players, so assuming they have saved it till LYLO they have saved it at least 4 days (wait 2 scum in a 13 player?) and honestly should be able to save his own ass when it could be a SCUM OR TOWN President.
B) I agree him using it to save his own ass isn't beneficial to the setup BUT REMEMBER IT CAN STILL BE A TOWNIE PRESIDENT.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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How does anyone know it was a successful cop protect?In post 6413, pieguyn wrote:
oo I likeIn post 6411, JasonWazza wrote:Possible solution: Make only the sane cop Macho.
only problem I can see with that is if a successful protect on a cop occurs, everyone knows it's the random cop. also if the doctor targets a cop and then that cop dies, then the remaining cop is random. half the fun is not knowing which cop is which
Yes Doctor can confirm the cops, on the off chance, but you risk that happening anyway, this just nullifys a follow the cop situation arising, it also makes it less likely for a massclaim of any kind to happen early on.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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I don't know about 7:2 being scum sided.
I think 7:2 is probably about even depending on play style (it may be less even if the scum hold back as long as possible to prime everything).
You have to realize, they have to prime someone that won't be lynched, Yes Fire Marshall clears people, he is basically clearing dead people.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Nope.In post 6462, Klick wrote:
Wait... Is this assuming that the Arsonists can ignite and arson someone else on the same night?In post 6461, JasonWazza wrote:I don't know about 7:2 being scum sided.
I think 7:2 is probably about even depending on play style (it may be less even if the scum hold back as long as possible to prime everything).
You have to realize, they have to prime someone that won't be lynched, Yes Fire Marshall clears people, he is basically clearing dead people.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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What the hell happens when a rolecop has an insane sanity?In post 6465, eaglgenes101 wrote:Let me see...
1 Cop (random sanity between sane and insane)
1 backup cop (random sanity)
1 backup backup cop (random sanity)
1 Psychologist (sane)
5 Vanilla Townie (Random sanities)
2 Mafia Goon (Random sanities)
1 Mafia Rolecop (Can see backup cop and backup backup cop roles) (Random sanity)
No one is aware of their sanities unless the psychologist tells them.
Is this more balanced? Does this present the psychologist nicely?Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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But as soon as lists are involved in the game, the scum have massive advantages and are very unlikely to miss a kill (2 scummiest get doc'd, towniest gets killed)
At least going random lynching they have a chance of fucking up.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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I feel like a perfect scum game is very hard to hit.In post 6508, TheButtonmen wrote:Super quick and dirty setup idea, thoughts?
Sacrificial Flag
Nightless
Town win when no scum remain alive.
Scum win when there are only two townies left alive.
At the start of each day if there are two or more scum alive they must select one member of the scum team to sacrificed if a town player is lynched that day.
5 VT's / 3 Goons
Thoughts:
There is an extremely odd form of feedback for the town, if the town is doing poorly it takes fewer scum lynches to win or if scum is doing poorly it takes more scum lynches to win. The game mechanics force it towards a more "balanced" state, it can anywhere from a single scum lynch to three scum lynches for the town to win.
Scum has a large voting bloc and has the ability to have their sacrificial goon quick-hammer / behave blatantly scummy because they're going to be dead by the end at nightfall anyway. However their voting blocs power is moderated by the fact that the game will always reach a X/1 game state so the need one of their members to remain unsuspected throughout the game to win.
Yes a goon can act delibritely scummy once they are going to die, but they shouldn't before they are going to finalaize a lynch elsewhere (3/1 is a perfect, so any goons getting lynched just makes the last goons job so much harder)Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.-
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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The problem i see arising is this, Doctor is always going to protect the goon (why protect anyone else?)
Then we get down to the JK, if there is a no kill, the logical thing to do is for the JK to keep hitting the target they have hit (Either they hit the SK, meaning the SK can no longer kill and JK should claim or, the JK has hit the SK's Target in which case he should still keep hitting the same target, unless the JK was missed for the Doc.)
And we come to a point where it is likely that the JK will claim the target and have them lynched (actually this may be the one reason the mafia would benefit from using the Doctor elsewhere)Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.-
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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By default the game is open, so what is the use of the king?In post 6562, agi102 wrote:I haven't played enough games to mod, but
Castle Mafia (13p)
1 King (that knows what every other town role is, but turns up GUILTY if investigated)
2 Vig (Flavor: Knight)
3 Vengeful (Flavor: Servant)
1 Jester
2 Jester Servant
1 Jester Knight
1 Jester Cop (Flavor: Councillor)
2 1-shot Bulletproof Mafia Roleblocker
Also 5 jesters in a 13p game is rediculous, the "Mafia roleblocker" may as well be an SK.
So the point of this game is what exactly?Wild West (20p)
7 3-shot Dayvigs
5 2-shot Lynchproof
3 Vengeful
5 1-shot Lynchproof 1-shot Mafia Dayvig Jesters
Nightless. Each vig needs a day to reload so he can fire the day after he reloads (which is after when he shoots). All kills count as Lynches.
You roll Mafia Jester or instant lose.
This game is stupid in so many ways. 3 town vs 7 SK's is basically a SK win waiting to happen, so again instant loss as a townie.1 Bulletproof 2-shot Psychiatrist
1 2-shot Deathproof Watchlisted Loved 1-shot Psychiatrist 1-shot Vigilante
1 2-shot Bulletproof FBI Agent
1 Investigation-Immune SK
1 2-shot Bulletproof SK
1 3-shot Bulletproof Hated SK
1 2-shot Lynchproof SK
1 3-shot Lynchproof 3-Shot SK
1 1-shot Deathproof SK
1 2-shot Deathproof Voteless SK
Watchlisted is SK version of Miller. Loved = +1 votes to lynch. Hated = -1 votes to lynch.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.-
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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In post 6566, agi102 wrote:In post 6565, JasonWazza wrote:
So the point of this game is what exactly?Wild West (20p)
7 3-shot Dayvigs
5 2-shot Lynchproof
3 Vengeful
5 1-shot Lynchproof 1-shot Mafia Dayvig Jesters
Nightless. Each vig needs a day to reload so he can fire the day after he reloads (which is after when he shoots). All kills count as Lynches.No idea. I think I wanted it to be swingy.
You roll Mafia Jester or instant lose.The town is 15 players. the scum is 5 players. And the lynchproofs stay alive quite easily.All kills count as lynches
Jester = lynch win
Mafia = majority win
Mafia Jester = NO POSSIBLE LOSS IN A GAME WHERE KILLS ARE LYNCHESReturning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.-
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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Ummm no? cause no one can tell if they were hidden behind?In post 6570, FakeGod wrote:
Not sure if trolling, but I'll bite.In post 6569, Archetype wrote:Giants vs Humans
2 Giants
10 Humans
Giants are essentially Mafia Goons. They get nightchat and a factional kill.
Humans are basically Town Compulsive Hiders. Except multiple people can hide behind the same person and when you do hide actions that target you still effect you.
So it's basically a game a WIFOM. Town wants to confirm certain players, but they don't want to target the obvious player or they'll get mass-killed by scum. But then scum can anticipate that and shoot the least likely person. And of course Town can die by just targeting scum.
Thoughts? It's a bit scum-sided now, so maybe randomly assign each of the Townies as Even or Odd night? Could add another layer of depth.
Obvious Breaking strategy:
Players assign 1 through 12 to each player, and no lynch.
Every player targets the player who has 1 more than their number (i.e. #1 hides behind #2, etc.), and player #12 hides behind #1.
Even with the giant's night kill, only max three players will be killed. Giants have been narrowed down to three players, and it's currently 2 vs 7.
GG.
So giants just kill out of order (say 3-4 away from their numbers) and boom they are safe.Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.-
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
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JasonWazza Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8940
- Joined: August 1, 2012