Brexit

[Davsto]

guess what our new prime minister decided to elect fucking Boris Johnson as foreign secretary

Like what

I can think of very few politicians who would be worse at that job and most of them are Nigel Farage

[Davsto]

On the bright side

George Osborne has been sacked

So there's

some

good

[Davsto]

BORIS MEET VLAD

VLAD CRUSH BORIS

they do the monster mash

[Davsto]

I mean Brexit wasn't something that a referendum

had

to be made of

Cameron just decided that (as part of his policy if the Tories won) he'd hold a referendum on it (to reduce people voting for UKIP as their policy was just to leave the EU, as Cameron was worried of a potential pseudo-Brexit vote as the votes split between UKIP and Tory in the general election depending on which people wanted to exit the EU).

Parliament could have easily just made a decision independently

(Disclaimer: not an expert so something is probably wrong here, but this is along the right lines)

[Davsto]

that's more of a demonstration of the idiocy of voters than the competency of Corbyn if you ask me

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No you vote for a local representative you agree with because they will vote in the way most applicable to you and try to push things you agree with into the limelight

A backbencher doesn't just sit on their arse and do nothing except be part of a party, they actually

do shit

. If people voted purely to get a majority for the party then no-one would have voted any SNP in because there aren't enough SNP candidates in different constituencies to get a majority.

[Davsto]

Labour were irrelevant anyway. They were basically became a shit version of the Tory Party.

Unless you're a Tory, that's either an ignorant statement or one

entirely

designed to justify a politically unsuccessful policy shift.

Nope, it's totally accurate. People are pissed that Jeremy Corbyn is an actually left-wing leader of a supposedly left-wing party, rather than just a centre leader. By distinguishing himself, he's dared to make it controversial.

Great, he couldn't even win 18-24. That is, 18-24 of all voters of all parties. How is this relevant? Who gives a damn what someone who is destined to vote Tory or UKIP anyway thinks?

Really, Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dem voters think May would make a better PM than Corbyn? I could have told you that myself, it's plain damn logic.

He divides voters. So what? FDR was constantly criticised by the media and big company owners yet he won by a landslide. Good politicians are inevitably going to have haters, and ones such as Corbyn which have more "controversial" policies are going to have even more. That doesn't mean he should step down. Now, I think he should step down because him being leader is resulting in complaints in his party which is putting Labour in absolute shambles during an already politically turbulent time, but not because some voters don't like him.

[Davsto]

That chart is still a stupid reason. You know what would happen if a new, non-Corbyn leader stepped in? A good part of that 45% who think Corbyn would make a good leader would probably dislike the new leader. That's just how it works.

[Davsto]

Labour were irrelevant anyway. They were basically became a shit version of the Tory Party.

Unless you're a Tory, that's either an ignorant statement or one

entirely

designed to justify a politically unsuccessful policy shift.

Nope, it's totally accurate. People are pissed that Jeremy Corbyn is an actually left-wing leader of a supposedly left-wing party, rather than just a centre leader. By distinguishing himself, he's dared to make it controversial.

Great, he couldn't even win 18-24. That is, 18-24 of all voters of all parties. How is this relevant? Who gives a damn what someone who is destined to vote Tory or UKIP anyway thinks?

Really, Conservative, UKIP and Lib Dem voters think May would make a better PM than Corbyn? I could have told you that myself, it's plain damn logic.

He divides voters. So what? FDR was constantly criticised by the media and big company owners yet he won by a landslide. Good politicians are inevitably going to have haters, and ones such as Corbyn which have more "controversial" policies are going to have even more. That doesn't mean he should step down. Now, I think he should step down because him being leader is resulting in complaints in his party which is putting Labour in absolute shambles during an already politically turbulent time, but not because some voters don't like him.

I mean, if your point is "I don't give a shit about winning elections" then okay. Fine. My point is that he's not going to be elected, so although I'd want to believe most people

care

about winning and the Tories not being in power, if you don't then we don't have a quibble on this point.

I mean... did you even bloody read my post? That post wasn't even close to the point you're saying I'm trying to make.

[Davsto]

No my point was "those graphs are a bloody awful metric for deciding whether a leader is worth having" and do little to support anyone's point that he would result in low labour votes if he were to remain in power

[Davsto]

I don't know why it doesn't support the idea he would result in low Labour votes if he were to remain in power.

How about the fact that the categories are divided by "voting intention", meaning that even those Labour ones who say that May would make a better leader are still planning on voting Labour anyway (because most people vote for a

party

that fits with their politics rather than for the rather changeable leader)?

[Davsto]

Regardless, that isn't responsive to the other chart that shows across every age demographic May is seen as making a better PM.

That chart is pretty much useless for data imo

We know that (going by the last GE) Tories got around 37% of votes and UKIP got around 12.5% of votes. Now that's around 49.5% of votes - almost half of voters - who voted against Labour regardless of Corbyn (more towards the right, that is), and as the other graph shows both UKIP and Tory voters overwhelmingly (surprisingly enough) consider Theresa May to be a better PM. That's a pretty strong skew and imo makes that graph borderline worthless.

[Davsto]

Well, obviously the hope should be not to repeat last GE performance but improve upon it. Voters for the Tories last time don't have to be voters for them this time. But you don't change those votes by selecting someone like Corbyn.

And neither will you get those Tory voters by staying exactly the same as you did last time, for obvious reasons

On the other hand, making the leader more left-wing will win the voters who voted for the Green Party and SNP because they felt that neither of the two main parties were left-wing enough, but who would vote for a major party if they were more left-wing.

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[Davsto]

[Davsto]

jumping off a cliff without a parachute and knitting one on the way down