Gistou (Over!)

[RAM]

I meant this:

If every slot has a secondary check which is also messed with, it functionally gives anyone who is redirected a very easy way to discover that they were redirected

Not necessarily tho?
In my case it's because everyone mass claimed N/L in the hood, but for anyone else, or even people not in a hood, they wont be able to tell the difference between a redirected secondary check and a correct one.

Yeah it's irrelevant as of right now.
But it might be relevant in the future when someone else claims an scan result.
I just dont want it to be lost in case i get NK'd or something.

As soon as either the person they targeted flips, or any sort of question begins to come up about their result accurace, all they have to do is say "I also x checked y. Can you please confirm z is the correct result?"

Then, if it's not, they know they were likely redirected. I mean, we saw this come into play today, when Nahdia double checked SS' nation(right? I don't remember) in order to confirm that he hadn't been bus driven.

Basically trivializes the deceptive aspects of the role, but it does still leave the purely mechanical things they could do with it.

-Cerb

[Luna Fox]

Im probably just getting tired, but im glad we're finally coming to a conclusion.

[Luna Fox]

On other news.
Food for thought.
Heartless activity has severely decreased this day phase, and it's anti's scum meta to get apathetic.
It may be related to the overblowing of information and how hard this game is to figure out to begin with.
But dont let something like this slide later on, specially if anti is involved.

[davesaz]

Starting to read up, top of page 227. As of the end of 226 things looks pretty clear, making a note to myself to see who actively resists the wagons in case of scum flip.

[RachMarie]

Still swamped with work stuffs will post more tomorrow, hopefully by then I will be done with the 10, 1 k articles I have to write for client.

[RAM]

Rachmarie, the day will be over by tomorrow, SS is at L-3 and the only person who defended them much (myself) has lost all reason for doing so.

-Cerb

[RachMarie]

oh crap ok work can wait will try to do something in this game

[RAM]

Lol, no, go work, just making you aware of the game state.

-Cerb

[davesaz]

Idea: let's not lynch the watcher that can verify the faction cop's results.
-Nahdia

What if the watcher is the redirector, who claimed watcher against the person she redirected? She'd be "confirming" that player's results while hiding her real ability in plain sight. And in that case she wouldn't have redirected Luna at all, but someone else. (don't remember who was claimed as the watcher target, and it's immaterial to this point anyway) Remember it's a closed game and we can't 100% believe any claim until it's proven another way.

Note, this hypothesis would mean that the KC slot is also scum, but at this point I still feel the SS slot is a stronger case. KC could be a real watcher who just made a targeting choice that some people feel was less than optimal.

[davesaz]

I hope you realize that my wincon is at risk by lynching in the hood without certainty of the existance of scum in it

The way I read it, your wincon is only in serious danger once there is only one of you left. I can't blame you for the slippery slope thinking, but if there is scum there we'll eventually need to eliminate it. Because if we don't find the scum, it's not just your faction but all the town factions at risk.

[No Retreat]

I already determined(since yesterday) that the klingon slot was likely scum.

I wouldn't really be all that surprised if there were multiple scum factions in there.

[RachMarie]

Are we really arguing over if this game is bastard or not

OK NEWS FLASH

this is a bastard game

Bus driver is confusable with redirector they are kind of close I believe though bus driver just swaps out two peeps like player A is targeted to bus drive with player B

Anything that is supposed to happen to player A ends up happening to player B instead like a doc protect, a jailkeep, a nk or so on.

While redirect actually affects actions not specific people IIRC

[davesaz]

Which I why I already said, use the simplest explanation -- SS claims a different faction than a faction cop's result, and the mod confirms what a faction result would contain, then SS must be lying. Since faction determines scum/town (/cult) it's the one thing in this game that we can count on. Does "Isolationist" sound like it goes with a town wincon of "(new) human treaty"? I'd say not.

[No Retreat]

making a note to myself to see who actively resists the wagons in case of scum flip.

and if he flips town what do you want to do?

[davesaz]

If he flips town with the faction name he claimed, then Luna is scum or there is a scum redirector in the hood (which could be KC slot). That should be pretty obvious.
If he flips with the faction name Luna claimed and a town wincon, then it's pretty illogical and I'll be lost until we get a scum flip. I don't do well with illogical things.

[Luna Fox]

Which I why I already said, use the simplest explanation -- SS claims a different faction than a faction cop's result, and the mod confirms what a faction result would contain, then SS must be lying. Since faction determines scum/town (/cult) it's the one thing in this game that we can count on. Does "Isolationist" sound like it goes with a town wincon of "(new) human treaty"? I'd say not.

As I mentioned earlier.
Most factions that have flipped with town win cons have some sort of Nation or Race attached to the faction name.
Isolationist does not, it sounds like it's a mix of everything in that way, which leads me to think it's the most likely global scum faction or cult, due to how not having a certain nation or race attached to it, it can literally be everywhere.

[Luna Fox]

Are we really arguing over if this game is bastard or not

OK NEWS FLASH

this is a bastard game

Bus driver is confusable with redirector they are kind of close I believe though bus driver just swaps out two peeps like player A is targeted to bus drive with player B

Anything that is supposed to happen to player A ends up happening to player B instead like a doc protect, a jailkeep, a nk or so on.

While redirect actually affects actions not specific people IIRC

Btw bus driver is already impossible because another player targeted them for a nation (or was it location?) scan and SS confirmed it was correct.

[RAM]

Implausible, not impossible. *shrug*

-Cerb

[Bacde]

Sup d00ds

[No Retreat]

A Redirector is a role that causes all actions taken on a particular Night by a specific player to target a specific second player instead of whatever their original target was.

Using Copper as an example here, Copper, the scum redirector targets Luna and redirects to himself or other scum.

Storm, who is not redirected targets SS and gets correct results 'cause not redirected.

Maybe I'm just being really dense here but I still don't see how there's only a SMALL chance of redirection. For a BD to happen Storm would have to be not telling the truth I suppose. Anyways I don't see much reason to not trust Luna's results and Cake isn't getting all super upset so it makes me think this is scum.

vote:SS

[No Retreat]

Sup d00ds

there is a guilty on your slot.

[Bacde]

Who guiltier it and what did they claim?

[RAM]

Who guiltier it and what did they claim?

Luna Fox, and she said you weren't Undead Risen Slave or whatever the fuck that faction for the PT is supposed to be.

-Cerb

[mastin2]

This statement cannot co-exist with this statement...

You say this, and yet, I have said both, and am here, not correcting either statement. As far as I can tell, both statements are, in fact, accurate. If you cannot tell how and insist they cannot co-exist, then knowing what you are seeing would be a helpful place to start so that I could help clarify. In short, I can't explain how they coexist if I don't know how you

don't

see them coexisting, and your statement contains no context to clarify, so I cannot.

[Wake1]

May we have an updated VC?