STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I am in a masonry with SirCakez

so idk how reliable your claim is o.o

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I am gut town reading grapes. o3o

~Bee

pedit

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

OH WAIT WE ARE IN A PREGAME PHASE.
huh, I thought we could vote and stuff.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Wait we are in no pregame phase we can vote to lynch right now D:

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I am in a masonry with SirCakez

so idk how reliable your claim is o.o

~Bee

Vote: obi-Wan

You copying me?
I didn't need to bold mine. I had reasons for why I claimed.
Mine is more special reason.
So I'm going to be blunt.
Why did you bold yours?

Yeah I am a mason I don't need to put in effort so I just copy others.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

"Now Connie. Please don't freak out. But a giant laser hand tried to steal me into space. But it didn't, it didn't. I'm back and everything is fine now. Um, Connie. Funny story. As it turns out, there's a lot more Gems out there than we thought. And I think they wanna... kill me? Aghhh! Haha. Hey Connie that... that message I left you was— was just a dream. Hahaha, eeeh, she's too smart for that."

-Steven,

Full Disclosure

VOTECOUNT 0.0

Not Voting (25):

Obi-Wan Kenobi, Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Xkfyu, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Farside22, Yume, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, grapes, mastin2, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, McMenno, Firebringer, Seraphim, SnarkySnowman, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch. Well, it would if people could be voted or lynched on the Prequel Phase.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-09-07 14:00:00)

The Current Stress is Neutral:

This suggests we can lynch.
IDK I am just really bad at mafia but I think this is one of those times where that isn't relevant

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I am in a masonry with SirCakez

so idk how reliable your claim is o.o

~Bee

Why isn't two pairs of masons conceivable?

Isn't that an incredibly boring way to balance a game?

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

lets talk about something other than this mafia game.
How is your Labor day going?

ANYWAY BACK TO THE REAL QUESTIONS.

I literally haven't left my bed yet. The most movement I have done so far today is reaching my hand to pick up my laptop off the floor.
This day is going gr8 if you couldn't tell from what I have done so far.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Not Voting (25): Obi-Wan Kenobi, Klingoncelt, SirCakez, Foxbird, Xkfyu, Skybird, Almost50, Shiro, DrippingGoofball, Farside22, Yume, CooLDoG, Reasonably Rational, grapes, mastin2, Not Chara, Kraskaeaque, killthestory, McMenno, Firebringer, Seraphim, SnarkySnowman, Creature, randomidget, TheWayItEnds

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to Lynch.

Well, it would if people could be voted or lynched on the Prequel Phase.

Oh that's an important part.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Cerb, we are dirty no good thieves, stealing all the good ideas.

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Flavor, what do I know about flavor Cerby. You just asked to claim negative utility so I claimed that I copy people because I struggle to come up with my own ideas.

Fire, you know better than to ask about my role. *smacks you*

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

is that an attempt at a titus crumb?

Fire, you know better than to ask about my role. *smacks you*

I didn't ask about your role?

@Fire, Really?

@Cerby, That's the plan.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus are you scum?

Nope.

These are not the scum you are looking for.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Fire, Really?

Yeah, thats not me asking about your role.
You tried to crumb and me questioning that isn't role fishing.

I am way more apparent when I role fish like this:

Titus, whats your role?

I give zero fucks and you should know that.

*shrug* You oughta know by now I perceive even questions about possible crumbs as a good idea as role fishing.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Cerby, I want to talk it over. Very in favor though. If it was just me, you would have me.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Cerby - We want to ally with you. That was fast lol.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

*shrug* You oughta know by now I perceive even questions about possible crumbs as a good idea as role fishing.

Not going to get in a meta debate here, but this is rubbish.

OK. Enjoy our perpetual disagreement and being townread.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

*shrug* You oughta know by now I perceive even questions about possible crumbs as a good idea as role fishing.

Not going to get in a meta debate here, but this is rubbish.

OK. Enjoy our perpetual disagreement and being townread.

disagreement between your two heads, or between you and Firebringer?

Disagreement with Fire on theory
Titus head townreads Fire because scum Fire is less likely to whine about being unable to troll.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

what should i put on this omelet....

Hmmmm

Not Onions for today. Go mild.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Not Chara, I'm inacapable of the feat. How good are you at shitposting? Nice to meet you.

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I am willing to ally with RR, Obi or KTS.

Yume, RR and Us are already aligned.

Why KTS?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus head townreads Fire because scum Fire is less likely to whine about being unable to troll.

Thats stupid.

i have literally spent more than a dozen pages complaining in a game where I was scum.
Titus needs a real read on me.

I got no good ideas. Ask your hydra partner.

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus head townreads Fire because scum Fire is less likely to whine about being unable to troll.

Thats stupid.

i have literally spent more than a dozen pages complaining in a game where I was scum.
Titus needs a real read on me.

I got no good ideas. Ask your hydra partner.

~VeggieWoman

Who is my hydra partner?

I meant mason partner.

I really have no good ideas.

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i made a pretty good omelet.
Had onion, chicken, salsa, green and red pepper, cheese, and bacon.

Lies. Don't talk to me.

I'm going to nap.

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

If you don't like onions you might as well be scum, because your not my ally.

You eat them. How can you like Onions and eat them?

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

If you don't like onions you might as well be scum, because your not my ally.

You eat them. How can you like Onions and eat them?

~VeggieWoman

ohh wait, you are the character Onion.
LOL.

Onion's with Steven. How can they be bad?

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Mastin can be town.
Foxbird is also town (maybe).
Farside is town.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Mastina, allying giving other powers? That's not usually how it works... O.o

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Something lacking in substance is NAI Cerby?

@NC, can you tell me your reads and why?

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

How is McMenno strange? Let's poke there more. See if we cannot get clearer thoughts.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

What was that?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

SC, Obi-Wan: Neither of you responded to my very selective ally invitation.

-Cerb

This

And why did that gather a townread? To me, it set off alarm bells of buddying.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I think you could spin buddying to the initial post but the mindset of wondering why you didn't respond to him felt town.

Who's scum titus?

Dunno yet. I am looking for aberrations in how players deal with me. Those who put me on a pedestal or malign me are going to catch my eye. I try to ignore budding early but it's definitely something I will discuss with beeboy. No one's said anything extremely inconsistent right now, so I don't feel extremely comfortable calling anyone scum.

I feel Mastina is really town though.

The closest thing I have to a scumread right now is klingon.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

How is McMenno strange? Let's poke there more. See if we cannot get clearer thoughts.

@NotChara, this is for you BTW.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Cerby, I feel so lost during this phase knowing scum cannot push anyone. That gives me direction. You two seem bold and leaders. If you could vote, where would you want my vote to be and why? Note:Farside, Mastina, grapes and Klingon don't really seem like good options to me. Whenever I think someone is scummy, they go be all townie and I am all like I dunno.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Fire, you stole my ewwwww. I am going to really have to shit post now. Maybe talk like a pirate.

Top o the morning matey.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Fire, you stole my ewwwww. I am going to really have to shit post now. Maybe talk like a pirate.

Top o the morning matey.

Firebringer stole your 'ew' at your own post?

Ewwwwwwww is generally what I say at posts that feel off to me. Been saying it for awhile.

Can you answer 454?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

this mcmenno fellow is a strange one for sure

461 feels a little off to me, not sure what I think of chara currently

Let's dance w mollie.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

454 on McMenno.
why did you point McMenno out there specifically? is it because i used vague language, or are you interested in the player himself?

first few posts are just... strange, that's the only way i can think of to describe them. 47 for one, and the lack of reading that there is not voting this phase. just trolling and asking for alliances, the latter of which is fine, while the former is annoying. but i don't get the town-vibe from McMenno that i have with Firebringer.
not really a scumread, just a lot of posting i don't understand. like is he here for shits and giggles, or is he hunting? looking at his iso, 400 seems to indicate he's putting together reads of some sort...?

Both. If vague language is applied, more sorting needs to be done.

So you think McMenno is strange for missing part of a post?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

what do you think about him? i've read all i can and haven't reached an answer to my question to myself in 461.

a lot of players seemed to have missed that, and it seems on this site in general there is always a small group that either doesn't read or misunderstands the mod's rules. so i suppose, by itself, McMenno isn't strange for doing it. it just adds to the 'don't care' attitude he's been displaying thus far, which is why i can't really pin him down.

Someone you cannot pin down is different from strange. I don't find McMenno strange or off really, just waiting until death starts before firmly placing him. Leaning town. Same with Fire.

Who do you feel needs sorting when day breaks?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

mcmenno's prob town ^_^
(i'll get back to u about allying when lycan comes on)

Hi. I don't bite much.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

what do you think about him? i've read all i can and haven't reached an answer to my question to myself in 461.

a lot of players seemed to have missed that, and it seems on this site in general there is always a small group that either doesn't read or misunderstands the mod's rules. so i suppose, by itself, McMenno isn't strange for doing it. it just adds to the 'don't care' attitude he's been displaying thus far, which is why i can't really pin him down.

Someone you cannot pin down is different from strange. I don't find McMenno strange or off really, just waiting until death starts before firmly placing him. Leaning town. Same with Fire.

Who do you feel needs sorting when day breaks?

Put me down as scum.

Only if you scumread us too.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

No, I will give you a scumread when you earn it.

Then you're town. Sorry man. Maybe Beeboy will scumread you.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i have town on not chara and titus hydra.
But neither wants to scumread me for some reason.

I don't want to scumread town. Why you gotta do me like this? Let's bring the pain. We can be the scummy town.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

mcmenno's prob town ^_^
(i'll get back to u about allying when lycan comes on)

Hi. I don't bite much.

hi titus
what do u want lol

Your shiny thoughts on who scum are. Townreads. Aww hell just convince me you read the thread.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I am so bored, why can't day just start.

VOTE: Day Start

Dude is scum. He needs to die.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@kraska, Can you expand more on NC and RR and Creature? How can you have a creature read and not RR?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@kraska, Can you expand more on NC and RR and Creature? How can you have a creature read and not RR?

i skipped most of RR's posts bc too wordy, so i dont have a read there. i'll reread thread again when im not tired and sleepy
creature is a gut tr mostly bc of entrance
i like all of notchara's posts. do u disagree with the chara read?

oops

If you could put a read down on rr, I would appreciate it.

Which posts of creature's gave you the gut feeling?

I don't think characte should be solid town yet. The strange thing on McMenno and their Rr interaction just felt off.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

*characte = not chara

Autocorrect

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Random. Maybe we can be allies tommorow although I wanted to be buddy-buddy with Titus and beeboy, Got to wait and see

Wow, we're popular. Midway through Day 1, I'll reach a choice with beeboy on who we ally with. I want to ally with a lot of people, you really included.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I thought you were already taken, titus?

We are. I was referencing that midway through Day 1, we'll choose for d2.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

mcmenno's prob town ^_^
(i'll get back to u about allying when lycan comes on)

y?

because

lone scum

is unlikely to approach a town hydra for an ally

Explain the bolded.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Hell, explain why hydra McMenno approached while you're at it.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't think I buy this.

Are you awake enough to give me your read on RR?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Hey, you're forgetting my question on your RR read there Kraska. If you're going to complain about order, getter done.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Cerby, I feel so lost during this phase knowing scum cannot push anyone. That gives me direction. You two seem bold and leaders. If you could vote, where would you want my vote to be and why? Note:Farside, Mastina, grapes and Klingon don't really seem like good options to me. Whenever I think someone is scummy, they go be all townie and I am all like I dunno.

Cerby help me...

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I'll stick around if I can. Our times have not been syncing up.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I think so. Hmm...will have to reflect.

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I think we should talk privately on that Drixx.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I think we're going to hang back until the votes fly tomorrow. Not much to do until then.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@SC, Explain that McMenno scumread and the NC townread please SC.

You do also realize by immediately hopping in and chainsawing me you've all but absolved RR from answering the question about who they would vote now?

@Mastina, Kraska hydra and CoolDog as high town? What?

@DGB, The alliance phase is like a pick your neighbor d1. RR wanted us, so we're going along with that. I am curious to see maybe you and Cakey get a hood. You're both null reads at the moment.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Fake masons are fake Mastina. It was Beeboy's idea. We are not really masons. Probably should have said so when the lie detector thing happened but I figured Beeboy was doing something with it.

Can you answer my questions about your reads now?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Cakey, really, with multiple people calling my question scummy, you think RR will answer? More than likely, they will retreat into their "we never give reads" posture. Yet, people can be read based on the stances they take, even if early or premature.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

It's not even the question I found scummy, it was the way it was worded
"oh I don't know what to do my scumreads get all townie all the time give me things to do" etc

*shrug* Still you neutered it. Half of what I look for is the reactions I get when fishing for reads. Who defends whom? Who votes the opposite wagon under pressure? Push comes to shove, where do the values lie?

Anyone who has played with RR knows that straight up asking them for reads doesn't work and I wanted to sort the nebulous things around them (NC not having a read there). I can and do feel lost without reactions.

We have lost that baseline for judging RR.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Guys stop town reading me.

Adopt the name Titus.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@DGB
Think of it like a Day Zero.

There's also a mechanic to alliance with someone but you need to target mutually.

Ah OK

Is Titus available?

Sorry, we are with RR.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Guys stop town reading me.

Adopt the name Titus.

I could never be titus. Titus is my opposite.
But I still deserve to be scum read damn it!

Why do we have to be opposites? Why can't we be scumread townies together?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

...i don't agree with it either. but Rational didn't have a problem with a reasoning, they seemed to not understand what kraska was even saying, and was viewing it as a slip.

This is still Ewwww. The focus was more on the fact they referred to McMenno as lone scum, and there's no reason to believe that any town player should be looking for solo scum.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Newbtown = someone new to mafia who is making posts that look like thoughts town would make the first time they play mafia
For example you usually see lots of apologizing for little things, analysis over game mechanics, openly discussing reads very early on, etc
It's like how I played in my first forum mafia game where I was town

i know the definition, i was asking how it applied to me. still, thank you for the information.

You were doing these things early on, which is how it applies to you. Thought that was clear, mb.

It's not even the question I found scummy, it was the way it was worded
"oh I don't know what to do my scumreads get all townie all the time give me things to do" etc

*shrug* Still you neutered it. Half of what I look for is the reactions I get when fishing for reads. Who defends whom? Who votes the opposite wagon under pressure? Push comes to shove, where do the values lie?

Anyone who has played with RR knows that straight up asking them for reads doesn't work and I wanted to sort the nebulous things around them (NC not having a read there). I can and do feel lost without reactions.

We have lost that baseline for judging RR.

-_-
They might have still answered it the way you wanted but now they probably won't.

Agreed, but with the focus on how scummy the question is neither alignment would.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

...i don't agree with it either. but Rational didn't have a problem with a reasoning, they seemed to not understand what kraska was even saying, and was viewing it as a slip.

This is still Ewwww. The focus was more on the fact they referred to McMenno as lone scum, and there's no reason to believe that any town player should be looking for solo scum.

i... now don't understand this.
'lone scum' refers to a hypothetical scum player who isn't in a hydra... what does that have to do with hunting?

And I didn't buy that as the context. Nor did RR (at least one of the heads) evidently.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

mcmenno's prob town ^_^
(i'll get back to u about allying when lycan comes on)

y?

because lone scum is unlikely to approach a town hydra for an ally

This is the context. Searching for an SK is outright scummy and suggests Kraska isn't town because he thinks McMenno could be an SK. Hence why lone scum had to be explained.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

NC can you put forth your reads just off the cuff where your gut says in town v null v scum?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I'm not sure about Mastin's Miller-like claim though. The way my Role PM's worded, I'm pretty sure that

I'm

the Miller.

Oh no.
I'm 100%, certifiably, a miller.
There's no ambiguity in role PM wording.
I really want to prod you more about this, because if your claim has a real miller ability, there's some ways that you'd be able to prove it to me (speaking as someone who is a miller, soyeah, I know), but, yaknow. Hilariously stupid idea if you're legit given Varsoon specifically warned us AGAINST doing this sort of thing.

Hilariously stupid idea if you're legit given Varsoon specifically warned us AGAINST doing this sort of thing.

Yep.

Umm did Grandma just agree with Mastina calling her play dumb?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Does alliance in that context mean that Skybird can talk to the player who has role card of Steven Universe?
I am guessing that makes Skybird "Connie".

Let's not make assumptions here.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

VOTE: Creature

Hi. Come play.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

VOTE: Creature

Hi. Come play.

What if I told you i have info that RR is conf scum?

O.o what is this info?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

VOTE: Creature

Hi. Come play.

What if I told you i have info that RR is conf scum?

O.o what is this info?

its classified scum information.

If the info's classified I want to partner hunt for awhile. You understand right?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

If the info's classified I want to partner hunt for awhile. You understand right?

I guess.
Maybe you can interrogate the prisoner for more info on allies.

Yeah, dancing with Mollie is fun. Can you vote Creature with me? I am looking for reactions.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Dancing with mollie?
No on the creature wagon.

I need to interrogate RR more.

My scum buddies tell me he must give us all the gems.

What do you need to know?

I has sads you won't help me here for right now Fire.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

can you explain all the references to mollie?

Nope. She's awesome though.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Absolutely X. More votes on Creature help.

@Yume, Mastina is pretty obvious town by play. Did you mean if you're town Mastina's town?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

O.o? That's surprising.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

It's what it says. It's up to you whether you believe it or not. *shrugs*

That would be a ridiculous thing for you to lie about.

Agreed, but maybe confused or a gambit? I think Mastina's town anyway so no rush. Yume is likely town as well. KTS is town because they are not going to fake innocent child as scum.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Ok. Moving on.

Yume, will you vote Creature?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

This isn't how you get reactions -_-

Yeah, please don't tell me how to play. Can you scumhunt now or just be filler?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Sure, spotlight someone and I'll give my opinion on them.

Pick one of the four active posters.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

*four most

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

VOTE: Farside

This needs a hell of an explanation.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Obi: why do you think voting will pressure creature to do something?
Why is he the one your pushing the most?

Well he's promised content, but that's secondary. It's not his reaction I am looking for. I obviously will not answer more directly than this. I will explain why once I get the reaction I was seeking.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Obi: why do you think voting will pressure creature to do something?
Why is he the one your pushing the most?

Well he's promised content, but that's secondary. It's not his reaction I am looking for. I obviously will not answer more directly than this. I will explain why once I get the reaction I was seeking.

Who posted this?

Titus

~VeggieWoman

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

An ability in the game has confirmed that Farside22 is NOT in a Masonry with Firebringer.
The Stress has increased by 1, towards 'Tragic Destiny'. The current stress is +1.

You think Farside did this?

That's dumb. Why would Farside confirm she's not a mason with Firebringer as scum?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Btw, Reasonably and Not Chara are probtown, but am afraid of Firebringer and Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Why?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Reasonably's and Not Chara's posts don't look like scum's for me.

I am feeling like this could be Firebringer's scum game.

Meanwhile, you're forcing my opinions.

Your opinions are your opinions. I'm not dictating who you read as town or scum.

Why do RR and NC not look like scum to you?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

RR for his posts like the "This is an epitome of RVS behavior", it doesn't look like scum.

I liked Not Chara's posts like the alliance one.

Which one is the alliance one?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Your opinions are your opinions. I'm not dictating who you read as town or scum.

I mean't that you're acting like "scumhunt now or you're scum", not letting it go naturally.

Also, the way you keep saying you want to see my reaction sounds like a "Look at me, I'm being town by pushing reactions!"

It wasn't yours I wasn't looking for. I'm still thinking it helps figure things out though. Getting you involved if town never hurt anything. I can't see why you're upset about giving reads?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

you can't vote right now. this phase is just for discussion and setting up alliances.

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

you can't vote right now. this phase is just for discussion and setting up alliances.

Oh right, wanna ally?

no, thank you.

who i'm allying has already been decided.

edit: Cerb, i hope you've watched the episodes out for season 4! again, still good.

Also like this:

i'd say it's only about 2/3 shitposting, Foxbird. also, congratulations.

OWK: good to know.

Really? So that NC told you that you couldn't vote yet and you think that reading is somehow AI? Stating the percentage of thread is AI?

What about the actual scumhunting that happened in the pregame?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

What actual scumhunting?

You mean where the 180 on their gut on you while you never posted?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

you can't vote right now. this phase is just for discussion and setting up alliances.

VOTE: Reasonably Rational

you can't vote right now. this phase is just for discussion and setting up alliances.

Oh right, wanna ally?

no, thank you.

who i'm allying has already been decided.

edit: Cerb, i hope you've watched the episodes out for season 4! again, still good.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

this is a boooooooring post, Creature! :>

sure, that's easy.

town: CoolDoG, farside, Firebringer, grapes, kraska, randomidget
null: OWK, mastin, McMenno, Skybird, SirCakez
scum: Rational, Almost50, Creature

anyone not mentioned, i don't have a read on. players in the null category are those i can't make up my mind about.

This is their entire ISO on you.

Not to mention that Kraska has a wierd unexplained read on you. What you say isn't very particular to me, yet as I think it's too early to sort you, but how they react here is key.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

RR is a mild townlean for me, I am more interested in voting / pressuring elsewhere.

Vote Creature?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

kraska77 is prob townreading me for Open 649

And this is making me wish I had multiple votes. Don't chide me for forcing you to scumhunt on one hand yet start answering for other people.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus, don't be mean.

How is it being mean to highlight weird interactions?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't see any 180 on me.

They townread you at the start based on their interactions with you. Yet, with no interaction with you, you became a scumread.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus, I can read the tone in your posts.

No apparently, like everyone else, you can't.

The catch is, I don't actually care about being townread here. So I can do my best Bill Maher impersonation. As long as I'm not calling people dumb... I don't think making observations is fairly classified as mean.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus, I can read the tone in your posts.

No apparently, like everyone else, you can't.

The catch is, I don't actually care about being townread here. So I can do my best Bill Maher impersonation. As long as I'm not calling people dumb... I don't think making observations is fairly classified as mean.

wtf are you going on about, I do townread you.

Don't play this emo "No one understands me" shtick.

You can reach the conclusion that I'm town without getting the tone in my posts. :/ Sorry.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Firebringer is known for tone reading players.
Titus says firebringer can't tone read her.

Firebringer says fite me.
Titus says no.

Again, not the assumption. I don't mind being scumread or townread but I'd rather not be uber townread as I am much worse as conftown.

You're interpreting highlighting facts as being a smug dick. That's what I'm objecting to.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Fire, Please elaborate.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Does alliance in that context mean that Skybird can talk to the player who has role card of Steven Universe?
I am guessing that makes Skybird "Connie".

Really not a bad assumption.

As for the event triggering the -2 stress: an extension of me being a miller I suppose is that my event power instead of raising stress lowers it by two. That was my trigger. (I know, Varsoon said that in general, town events will raise stress and scum events will lower stress. But mine didn't. Dealwithit.) It was a pro-town power, I assure you, best used early rather than later especially given that I'm going to die early this game regardless.

VOTE: Not Chara.

Dudette, Yume just said you conftowned in your hood.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

no, they added me to their neighborhood and it says they're confirmed town in there.

I'd have preferred you kept that information secret.

But, yes.
This is why I was rather doubtful of the masons.

Because

I

am a mason.
Miller, yes.
But also mason.

Also why I said I'm gonna die early.
Kinda sucks, too. When you're conftown, you die and people just assume you died for being conftown.

I'm not about to say you're wrong on NC, but think about setting up the game for after you take the bullet... Try to see what I'm trying to do and slow your roll and look for the buddy?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I'm sorry, but drop it. That line of questioning is forbidden.

For once, I agree with Yume. I think Yume might be able to come out of their shell more if we go along with this for now, even with the flaws.

Yume, if you were queen of the world, who do you think is scum?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@NC, Keep reading.

The two major wagons right now that aren't you are RR and Creature. Which do you pick?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

OBK: why didn't you answer my question?

between those, i pick Rational. but it's barely been a day and i'd like to read first.
which do you pick? including me.

I did. I answered it in the dialogue that I had with Creature, which is why I said "keep reading".

I would pick you at the moment.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

yes, i know you 'answered' it. the post i quoted was the last thing you said about me to Creature. now where did i say i was townreading Creature? quote it.

You didn't say verbatim that you townread Creature. Your behavior indicated you townread him which is plainly evident from the posts that I quoted.

You didn't objectively say you were breathing, but I still presume that to be true.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Now, I have the reaction I was looking for.

NC had the two players who were possibly scum wagoned together. NC if scum, most likely is scum with RR or Creature due to the rule of 3. (Namely if a scumfuck gives a reads list where there's multiple scum, more likely than not there's a buddy). By having Creature and RR as the options, I could see if NC would bus or not. By approaching this from that angle, NC clearly didn't believe in their scumread allegedly on Creature or RR.

NC has had irregular interactions with RR that have been documented by other people. Yet, she suddenly it's not wanting to rope them.

NC's reactions have been like this all game.

VOTE: NC

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

so, you made an assumption that my acting civil and friendly to a player has anything to do with my read on them, then proceeded to call that a 180 on my read?

and you didn't even quote the only ammunition you might have had on this point, which is the post where i say i agree somewhat with Creature's view that hunting is harder without votes to look at. still has nothing to do with my read, but i might have actually seen where you're coming from with that.
here, all i see is someone looking for something to attack. even Creature thought you were full of it as you tried to convince him, and he was the one i was scumreading. :>

VOTE: Obi-Wan Kenobi

This is caught for wrong reasons. Your case is fine but you didn't quote the best evidence, so I'm going to rebel over here.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Snarky is town.
CoolDog might be town?

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Yume might be scum but I am not 100% understanding what is going on with the claims so I guess I will leave that one be.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Cakez can you give us some updated reads pls.
@Almost can you do more things please.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

so, you made an assumption that my acting civil and friendly to a player has anything to do with my read on them, then proceeded to call that a 180 on my read?

and you didn't even quote the only ammunition you might have had on this point, which is the post where i say i agree somewhat with Creature's view that hunting is harder without votes to look at. still has nothing to do with my read, but i might have actually seen where you're coming from with that.
here, all i see is someone looking for something to attack. even Creature thought you were full of it as you tried to convince him, and he was the one i was scumreading. :>

VOTE: Obi-Wan Kenobi

This is caught for wrong reasons. Your case is fine but you didn't quote the best evidence, so I'm going to rebel over here.

i... what? are you saying there are

better

reasons that you're scum?

No. You're whining that I didn't use the best post (you refer to it as the only ammunition) to make my case that you 180ed your read. You're basically stating that my case is fine but I didn't use the best evidence so you'd OMGUS me instead.

Even in your next post, you follow up with my comment being "weak" rather than "scummy" because you've been more concerned with how you're perceived than finding scum.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

okay, Almost50.

on grapes: looking back, there isn't that much material for grapes as town in the recent game. most of it isn't stuff i find terribly alignment indicative. i may have been taking grapes for granted for reasons. i still think they're town, because of the back and forth with kraska and the reads that i can see coherent reasoning for. but grapes isn't my focus today, as we're allied and i will hopefully be speaking at length with them there.

on Rational: nearly all of Drixx's posting is material i can't follow from a town perspective. 567 and the previous conversation surrounding that 'slip' is one of them. Cerb's defense of Drixx's actions (383) also rubs me the wrong way. yes, i'm aware that mastin asked for Cerb's opinion here. in 379, Cerb expresses their displeasure with my answers: "was hoping for more" but still calls it all lacking in any alignment information, at all. that, and the whole line of questioning was based on a small question i asked about whether Rational would ally with me. what information was Cerb looking for anyway?
340

does

make me eager to see what Drixx has to say about Titus. (see the line about assuming) also, i don't believe the post they quoted was me making an assumption... it was my opinion, which i gave reasons for. i fully expected a response, but the "stop assuming shit" line in particular seems like an overreaction.
there are a few other things here that i'm skipping because i've spoken about them before. i also just noticed that they never responded to my 325.

Creature was a gut read, but there were probably some posts i could go look for specifically that influenced it. my mind has changed somewhat after his interaction with Titus. i'll wait and see how he plays as the game continues.

RR is a hard creature to read. Everyone who knows their slot knows they like to hold off on making findings as to whether or not things are alignment indicative. It drives me up a wall, but it's something they do. When they say hoping for more, it's hinting that he was hoping you'd do more to sort them. That interaction, combined with their crumbing to me, makes me second guess my read on RR. Do I trust them indefintely? No. I trust them enough to not want them roped today. Particularly when you haphazardly case them.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

OK, so Mastina AND Titus are pushing Not Chara. I guess this is the best sheep I could ever commit to in this game!

VOTE: Not Chara

Of course this could be called opportunistic, and could also be labelled OMGUS, so would be perfect to comply with beeboy's request to "do more things". Switch off the main lights please and put me on the focus of the spotlights for a while!

i was under the impression that sheeping is lazy and scummy. does publically stating that you're sheeping erase that somehow? (this is referencing both Yume and Almost50, though Almost50 seems committed to highlighting everything scummy about this by calling himself out before anyone else can)

Firebringer, Snarky, since you're both not into it: who is scum on my wagon, and who is just lazy?

Also, if Firebringer could answer about Titus. i really like Obi-Wan is so scummy that Rational can be left alone for the moment.

edit: could you please explain why this is town? i don't understand it.

Sheeping is player and situationally dependent. No tool is scummy or townie, just some players favor certain tools more than others. As a general matter, scum tend to sheep but not always. Good to know that you're afraid to sheep.

Almost50 pressuring you for a response to his question, which you still haven't answered, is pretty telling. Scum can throw absent questions to everyone and not care when they are ignored. Town follow through, town have plans that eventually reveal themselves. The fact you OMGUSed Almost immediately after he pushed you and did the same thing to me is pretty revealing.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Yup.

I deliberately wanted a Creature wagon to see someone else's reaction. That someone else was you. I fully came into today attempting to find your partner in RR and Creature.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I have way too many townreads right now.
Like 10 people.

Who are you not townreading? I have quite a few myself.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@ Fire

ObiWan
Firebringer
Yume
Mastin
Farside22
Skybird (Weak)
Almost50
Mcmenno
KTS
grapes
Cakey (weak)
Random (weak)

This is mine. Beeboy thinks Snowman is town though soo...

Scum don't fake Innocent Child.

@Farside, Read on to your question.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Why do you think KTS is town?

Scum do not fake innocent child.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I honestly didn't take that claim seriously especially when the after comment was "don't vote me"

His comment still draws attention to himself in a way that's consistent with town trolly KTS. And yes Varsoon has definitely put in innocent children. The catch is they are usually delayed in some format. In Stevens Universe 1, RR was an innocent child delayed until Day 5.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

His claim is fake though.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I honestly didn't take that claim seriously especially when the after comment was "don't vote me"

His comment still draws attention to himself in a way that's consistent with town trolly KTS. And yes Varsoon has definitely put in innocent children. The catch is they are usually delayed in some format. In Stevens Universe 1, RR was an innocent child delayed until Day 5.

KTS only trolls as town now?

Not exclusively. That type of claim is consistent with town KTS. Why would scum randomly announce they were an innocent child? It's the type of act that just draws attention.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

you didn't respond to my post, OWK.

You post was just a leading snarl.

Asking me whether I intend to smear people I hypothetically plan on mislynching isn't a question that needs a response. I've also been told under no uncertain terms that arguing with scum gives them a chance to appear town.

If you have a question based on reads, I'll answer it.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

when i said i was gonna obvtown it i meant legit i was ic tho for real

Wait, you're claiming IC for realz?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i mean what type of person fakeclaims ic?

You, but I'll play along for now.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, I don't particularly care if you're impressed.

I didn't like Snarky's attack on you or him defending Chara. Beeboy thinks they are town though.

NC and Creature are likely partners at this point. I'll find the scum and don't care if you're impressed.

I'd lynch Sera in a pinch.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

explain the snarky read to me.

His read on you feels like something that would be really odd for scum to try and coast on since there is a variety of other pushes he could have done that would be a lot easier.

~Bee

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Bee, I hate how you and Titus are forming reads right now.

*shrug* Deal with it. It's early day 1.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, I don't particularly care if you're impressed.

I didn't like Snarky's attack on you or him defending Chara. Beeboy thinks they are town though.

NC and Creature are likely partners at this point. I'll find the scum and don't care if you're impressed.

I'd lynch Sera in a pinch.

I'd agree more with the creature scum read then Chara. I think your making a lot out of nothing in regards to NC.

Vote; Sera

Fair enough. I'm not opposed to a Sera wagon, and I don't think Beeboy is either. I strongly prefer NC though.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

yes i am garnet the innocent child

@Varsoon - confirm please?

He has to bold to even suggest triggering an IC.

Doesn't matter because it's not real. That Beeboy and I agree on.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Actually,

Yume
farside22
TheWayItEnds
Creature
Firebringer
grapes
Killthestory
randomidget
kraskaesque
Cooldog
Foxbird
Shiro
Obi-Wan Kenobi
SnarkySnowman
Skybird
McMenno
Almost50
DrippingGoofball
Seraphim
Klingoncelt

Xkfyu
Reasonably Rational
SirCakez
Not Chara

A little more precise would be this.
Like I said: still trying to find that fifth.

Creature and Seraphim would be good choices. Although I see you went the other way on the rule of 3.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I'm not so sure on RR though.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

is that rolefishing now

yes, yes it is.

Hey idiots we aren't lynching Chara

yes, there are much better lynches today. It is not the worst, but most certainly not above mediocre.

WHy are we lynching the lurker d1? does not compute

CoolDog, what do you think of Mastina's list?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I'm not so sure on RR though.

Not so sure on Cakey either.

Can you elaborate here?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@skybird, beeboy and I both don't feel good about him in our guts but can point to nothing to support that.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@skybird, beeboy and I both don't feel good about him in our guts but can point to nothing to support that.

Is he ballsy enough to be scum and call himself scum all game?

Umm you asked us to explain our CoolDog read.

As for Fire, we don't think he's scum. Capable yes. Likely no.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Titus making crappy associations is probably town!Titus

And the worse, the townier LOL

*glares* my associations are as good as the assumptions given.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Town

Almost50
ObiWan
Farside
Mastina
Yume
McMenno
Grapes
Firebringer

Lean Town

Skybird
randomidget
DGB

Don't want to lynch today but I see the points

RR

Needs More

Foxbird
X
Shiro
TWIE

Lean Scum

Klingoncelt
CoolDog

ScumReads

Not Chara
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lycanfire)
Seraphim
SnarkySnowman
Creature

Hard to Place, Would lynch

Cakey
KilltheStory (beeboy and I strongly disagree here, willing to go along with him)

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Grapes, work the shit out with Farside tvym.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, I would like to get on the same page as you and Mastina.

Can you just highlight where we're wrong in your opinion?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@farside,

Ok, well then if that's what you want to play it. Oh well. Have a good day.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Seriously, look at her scumreads:

ScumReads

Not Chara
Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lycanfire)
Seraphim
SnarkySnowman
Creature

Not Chara is new.
Kraskaesque are a hydra of newer players.
Seraphim and SnarkySnowman are know as lynchbaits.
grapes sees me as extremely lynchable.

Farside, do you believe this is town?

He somehow argues my Not Chara scumread is new despite my plan being to determine who NC's partner was since the start of Day 1?
He's trying to do a new player pass on objectively scummy play (avoiding me and then having crappy posts)
Again, even assuming these players were lynchbaits that has no impact on their alignment.
It should be pretty clear by this page that I'm not scumreading grapes. How grapes sees you has nothing to do with how I see you. I postulated you and NC well before grapes scumread you I believe.

This type of post is clearly a slot more interested in discrediting what I have to say rather than actually reading anything I'm saying. Why would that be the case? Me being right about NC/Chara is as good a suggestion as any.

Also, not jumping to Snarky because I am not certain on them, NC has the larger wagon and I like them as scum better.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Lol Titus stop pestering creature he's town

Why? I don't respond to others telling me what to do. That's DOUBLY true for my scumreads. Why should I back off creature?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Farside is pretty pissed I scum read her huh. And very much in the way of "what the shit everyone townread me you caught me for nonsense reasons"

What are your other reads? Farside isn't getting lynched today.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, Do you think we could wagon X? You Mastina and I all agree on X being scum. I think it would help more than bickering maybe? I'm pretty sure on NC but I'm told I tunnel too much.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

It feels like Cakez is playing like he did as scum in TTH.

meta reads are not very useful to me, especially without specifics or quotes.

my intention isn't to insult, but this has as much bearing as just saying you have a gut read.

Obi: your case on me is badly done and built on the flimsy 'oddness' you mentioned with respect to McMenno and Rational in the pregame.
defending it with 'i've had it for a while' doesn't make it sound better, it just shows that you're not actually examining me, only looking for things you believe you can attack.

If I felt the need to "case" you, I'd be describing your play since the start. I do not. I've just mentioned a few observations. Again, if I made a better case on you, would you sheep it? Nope. This is baseless discrediting.

Now, do you have anything productive to say?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, Do you think we could wagon X? You Mastina and I all agree on X being scum. I think it would help more than bickering maybe? I'm pretty sure on NC but I'm told I tunnel too much.

Creature, snarky....who else did I agree with.
Seraphim I think was the other one.

I'd say pressure someone that gives the most info.

Mastin: where do you stand on this?

Yeah, I just would like the three of us to agree and see what happens with the wagons. I'm not so concerned about what the target says (unless they actually start obvtowning) but more so with the reactions of other players. Reading players is about determining what they value IMO.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Farside is pretty pissed I scum read her huh. And very much in the way of "what the shit everyone townread me you caught me for nonsense reasons"

What are your other reads? Farside isn't getting lynched today.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Not Chara is obvscum.

There's a wagon there.

@Farside, Do you scumread anyone on the Not Chara wagon?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Not Chara is obvscum.

There's a wagon there.

@Farside, Do you scumread anyone on the Not Chara wagon?

4 votes isn't much of a wagon in this game.
Seeing how yume is I wouldn't follow it.

Ooooooo how about a wagon on cakez!

Vote: sir cakez

You mean four players, all universally regarded as town, and the wagon doesn't take?
Almost50, myself, Yume, and mastina are all on the NC wagon. The NC wagon is facing major resistance.

Why wouldn't scum be hopping on here if the wagon was wrong as a method of discrediting those on the wagon if it was wrong?

This reminds me very much of the wagon on LQ in Sudoken Mafia.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Not Chara is obvscum.

There's a wagon there.

@Farside, Do you scumread anyone on the Not Chara wagon?

4 votes isn't much of a wagon in this game.
Seeing how yume is I wouldn't follow it.

Ooooooo how about a wagon on cakez!

Vote: sir cakez

You mean four players, all universally regarded as town, and the wagon doesn't take?
Almost50, myself, Yume, and mastina are all on the NC wagon. The NC wagon is facing major resistance.

Why wouldn't scum be hopping on here if the wagon was wrong as a method of discrediting those on the wagon if it was wrong?

This reminds me very much of the wagon on LQ in Sudoken Mafia.

That's a bad reason to keep pushing it.
Won't join
Move on

What would constitute a good reason to you?

Obvtown pushing it doesn't work
OMGUSing obvious town who suspect them doesn't work
Having inconsistent positions doesn't work
Them being opportunistic doesn't work

What gives? Why are you so adamant they are town?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

you and grapes are not obvious town. Almost50 could be town but it is not obvious. at the moment he isn't even really scumhunting.

i have not been inconsistent, you are pulling at imaginary straws.
and i don't even know of it's possible to be opportunistic right now except on the wagon on

me

.

:>

Arguing that Almost50 isn't scumhunting is lol bad.
Grapes is obvious town.

The only wagon that can opportunisticly be voted is mine because it's the biggest.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

lol

Scumfucks voting me for role based on an assumption.

VOTE: Not Chara

And they don't bring it out until after you consider voting for them.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Exactly.

It's why I was down to ally with a scumread.

And asked within my townreads to ally to see if I got any offers.

If chara's scum, scum aren't gonna offer to ally me anymore, he wanted to blow the lid off that ASAP.

Are you supposing scum don't have daychat in a Varsoon game?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Mod: Do scum have daychat?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Not Chara is obvscum.

There's a wagon there.

@Farside, Do you scumread anyone on the Not Chara wagon?

4 votes isn't much of a wagon in this game.
Seeing how yume is I wouldn't follow it.

Ooooooo how about a wagon on cakez!

Vote: sir cakez

You mean four players, all universally regarded as town, and the wagon doesn't take?
Almost50, myself, Yume, and mastina are all on the NC wagon. The NC wagon is facing major resistance.

Why wouldn't scum be hopping on here if the wagon was wrong as a method of discrediting those on the wagon if it was wrong?

This reminds me very much of the wagon on LQ in Sudoken Mafia.

That's a bad reason to keep pushing it.
Won't join
Move on

What would constitute a good reason to you?

Obvtown pushing it doesn't work
OMGUSing obvious town who suspect them doesn't work
Having inconsistent positions doesn't work
Them being opportunistic doesn't work

What gives? Why are you so adamant they are town?

Smells newb town all the way.

I'll go howl at the moon.
Looks like that wagon will grow with chara foot in mouth syndrome.

Shrugs

And what distinguishes between newb town and newb scum to you?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

foot in mouth syndrome...?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... %20disease

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Are you supposing scum don't have daychat in a Varsoon game?

I'm supposing that they do. Scum would know right away that offering to ally with me would risk me accepting and them losing their perks, so town would be far more likely to offer. Following me here? Just a little reaction test.

I also can force Chara to ally me from here on out. And plan to if we don't lynch it today.

Accurate on the last part. Not really following on the reaction test but ok... will give you space here. Sorry.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i could be convinced onto a Snarky wagon depending on how he answers, but i don't think i will be happy about it.

i could wagon grapes. will join the Rational wagon in good cheer if i don't see anything else i like/no one will follow me on OWK. though i've already given up there for today, so.

grapes: are you still townreading Snarky?

This is a terrible fucking post.

It's literally talking out of all three sides of its mouth here.

I'd wagon snarky, could wagon grapes, but also don't mind that wagon grapes is pushing the loudest, oh hey grapes what's your read on snarky?

Like this kinda post just doesn't come from town I'm fucking sorry.

Reactionary pushes are on me + obi. Like reread them more in depth without your "newbs can't be scum for some reason" filter.

You're forgetting Almost50 there as well.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't get why you are so confident on this.
Remember how you said paranoia was lacking for Not CHara?

I see little self doubt in your own reads, which makes me nervous about you Grapes.

Fire, you're doing that thing rather than reassessing your own reads with evidence, you try to attack the presenter of the evidence instead. That's textbook confirmation bias.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't get why you are so confident on this.
Remember how you said paranoia was lacking for Not CHara?

I see little self doubt in your own reads, which makes me nervous about you Grapes.

Fire, you're doing that thing rather than reassessing your own reads with evidence, you try to attack the presenter of the evidence instead. That's textbook confirmation bias.

am I?
Cause I really just don't think anything Not Chara has done is scummy.

Should I reaccess everytime a person tells me I am wrong?

No. Not everytime. We all know that I'm generally the least likely person to reassess probably in the history of mafia. Yet, if an all town wagon emerges, and you don't want it, that presents problems for the gamestate. Having town reaching a hard-fought consensus is generally how town wins games.

Sticking your nose in the sand doesn't help anyone. Statements of "she's newb town" don't help anyone. Engage us. Explain how NC is town, more than the mere conclusion. Mere conclusions don't sway anyone. Show your work.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Drixx,

Grapes is no more negative utility than a roleblocker is negative utility. You may object to any role being negative utility in that sense. Yet, things like millers, ascetics, redirectors and ninjas are what we think of when discussing negative utility. NOt a role that if used incorrectly can hurt town.

@Farside,

Will find your question and answer it in a moment.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

I don't get why you are so confident on this.
Remember how you said paranoia was lacking for Not CHara?

I see little self doubt in your own reads, which makes me nervous about you Grapes.

Fire, you're doing that thing rather than reassessing your own reads with evidence, you try to attack the presenter of the evidence instead. That's textbook confirmation bias.

am I?
Cause I really just don't think anything Not Chara has done is scummy.

Should I reaccess everytime a person tells me I am wrong?

No. Not everytime. We all know that I'm generally the least likely person to reassess probably in the history of mafia. Yet, if an all town wagon emerges, and you don't want it, that presents problems for the gamestate. Having town reaching a hard-fought consensus is generally how town wins games.

Sticking your nose in the sand doesn't help anyone. Statements of "she's newb town" don't help anyone. Engage us. Explain how NC is town, more than the mere conclusion. Mere conclusions don't sway anyone. Show your work.

I asked you a question.
Have you seen scum vomit info this early in the game before.
If so, how often.
I want links with this request

Moves rr back to null scum.

Vomit "info"? Or just whine and complain about being scum.

You should check out Suikoden Mafia. This is a lot like LickedQuickety's scumgame.

Not every scum lurks like a mothertrucker when suspected.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Actually I thought about it, I'm going to be lazy and let OWL just lead this shit.
Maybe if they turn out to be wrong they might be more rational to deal with.

How am I being irrational aside from disagreeing with you?

You asked for a link. I gave you a link. I'm wanting to engage you, even while you insult me repeatedly. Why am I being irrational by giving you an opportunity to be heard and discuss but you're being rational by sticking your head in the sand and insulting me as a town player?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

bad bad bad bad

SirCakez and McMenno are two other scumreads I have. If a wagon emerged on either on them, I would definitely join in. grapes has largely outlined a fairly excellent case on Cakez, but there is a strong tendency of surface level play, a going through the motions of engagement. McMenno has been lurking in the wings and also rolefishing super hard. I think every player here wants more answers in terms of role shit but McMenno's questioning of Mastin seemed like scum using the pretense of that lack of information to try and secure a lynch.

do you think me and cakez scum are mutually exclusive?

@beetitus would you be interested in an alliance for the next phase?

Quite possibly. Let me talk to beeboy on that.

We might want to ally with more of a null read like DGB though.

It depends on how we want to play it.

You should vote Not Chara.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Actually I thought about it, I'm going to be lazy and let OWL just lead this shit.
Maybe if they turn out to be wrong they might be more rational to deal with.

How am I being irrational aside from disagreeing with you?

You asked for a link. I gave you a link. I'm wanting to engage you, even while you insult me repeatedly. Why am I being irrational by giving you an opportunity to be heard and discuss but you're being rational by sticking your head in the sand and insulting me as a town player?

Here is the thing.
You have me one link. That was nothing like what is happening with here. No where did I just say scum lurk only.
NC is not just whining about scum reads. She has engaged with players and has not edited her feeling in the least.
Why or how you are scum reading all that is beyond my understanding.
I mean this whole thing started with your creature read and to be honest his resent post just moved him into null for me.
Now you have well everyone on here is a town read so there attitude.
You are just taking whatever I say and ignoring it in my view. You are stuck in tunnel mode and as a known tunneler I know either you get what you want or I have to slap you to get you to see sense.
So since i can't touch you I'll just let you do your thing

That game is EXACTLY what is happening here, to someone who actually looks at wagon analysis.
The bulk of NC's ISO is exactly like LQ's ISO. Both LQ and NC engaged players. The "not edited her feeling in the least" is circular. Second, it implies lacking a filter is town, which isn't always true.
Why am I scumreading NC for their vote pattern?
First scumread - Shiro in 247. There's ZERO followup to this.
First pushback - Almost50 in the 300s range. Almost50 was grilling them for stating that everyone should flavor claim to their neighbors.
In 480 - They say SirCakez was strange to them, but never documented where SirCakez was strange. The only mention of Cakey in their ISO is a question in their ISO is why someone townread Cakey
Their scumreads at the point of 650 are RR (popular scumread that they had conflict with regarding interpretations), Almost50, and Creature. We're at null.

868 - AT this point, NC has hedged their read on RR as strange same with Cakez, but RR is scum (who they investigated) and SirCakez (who they haven't).

I start pressuring on them.
They vote me.
This is despite two of their gut scumreads being offered as wagon choices. They didn't want to investigate at all.

You can look through NC's ISO. They repeatedly throw dirt on Almost50 but only after their conflict. They claim that the interactions so far are not scumhunting, despite Almost50 following up after NC deliberately delayed answering them.

Then you look at grapes analysis. NC knew they lost their ability early on. They wanted until AFTER grapes voted them to announce Grape's ability.

Grapes hasn't investigated or attempted to sort reads with anyone this game, but rather to push an agenda based on OMGUS and salt.

---
If you think this whole thing started with my creature read, you're sorely mistaken and misinterpreting the events.
I said,

when I wagoned Creature

that I was looking for reactions from the thread. The RR wagon gave a natural opportunity to follow up on NC's reads. They suspected both RR and Creature. I wanted to know which they favored. When they failed to jump at either to investigate, that pinged even harder that they were not making an effort to sort their reads at all. Most town players would view two wagons on gut scumreads as an excellent opportunity to investigate. Not NC.

---

Everyone being town on a wagon and not having it take is a HUGE sign the wagon is on scum. Where are the town sheep? The town lurkers are likely not voting significant wagons. I study wagons, and check my results if the game progresses. Sure I can be thrown off if the scum decide to go full dumbso. Yet, the more rational and intelligent the playerbase is, the more votes can indeed tell a story.

Confirmed town should have a shit ton more pull than they do? What would stop it? Scum derailing. Boo Hooing the argument doesn't change the fact that despite being conftown Mastina has a certain lack of influence.

---

Saying that I'm a known tunneller doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong Farside. This is why I tunnel. This is part of the problem. Rather than engage me, you're sticking your head in the sand

because it's me

. I'm fully open to reasons and discussion here but right now, you're giving scum every out they need not to vote.

That one link I gave you is exactly what is going on here, repeated. Just take out LQ and put in NC.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant you there. You're pushing OMGUS and Salt.

Grapes is town.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Gonna respond to cerb and we'll see if I'm tempted to move after I do.

to anyone thinking of allying with grapes: you will not receive any bonuses you would normally get from allying with a player. and no, no need to bother checking. grapes never said this in the thread. or anywhere. i was told by Varsoon when our alliance was created. grapes' name was not specifically mentioned, but i have a hard time believing the cause was anything other than their role.

VOTE: grapes

pedit: ha.

Pretty sure I have my timeline right too.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i voted grapes before they made that post. hence the pedit. the ha was in response to 1187.

and still, grapes didn't actually vote until i did. they just said they might after looking at Cerb. that isn't me 'voting grapes after they voted me'.
please respond to the other problems with your post as well.

There are no problems with my posts.

They suspected you first. You OMGUSed them. To consider them OMGUSing you when you had to p-edit is ridiculous and farcical.

You didn't vote Grapes before the post I quoted. I checked. Your vote is in response to them pushing you as obvscum.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Not to mention they called you obvscum which is directly what caused your tone change.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

"Grapes hasn't investigated or attempted to sort reads with anyone this game, but rather to push an agenda based on OMGUS and salt."

You absolutely did agree with this typo I made.

So if Grapes didn't OMGUS you, how is grapes pushing an agenda based on OMGUS and salt?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i never said grapes OMGUSed me. i was just saying that i did not OMGUS them. you're putting words in my mouth again, please stop.

you didn't address the other issues i talked about in 1289. the lack of Shiro scumread. you assuming i was townreading Creature. everything regarding Almost50. that i stated "that everyone should flavor claim to their neighbours". these are all false.

grapes was scumreading me before our hood, and during it. i was aware of this. i was townleaning them until we started to speak in our hood, when i realized they were not actually trying to sort me.

Yeah, you claiming your reads aren't what you literally said isn't something I need to correct anytime soon.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Ugh.

Toothless is leaving this thread till something new comes in that isn't NC vs Titus.
Or at least until someone else puts some thoughts.

This is just disgustingly waste of time and energy.
Consider myself ignoring both of your posts for time being.

Mountain = molehill.

That's my take away from all I just read.
4 votes with 25 players is not a huge thing.

Yeah, and when those four voters are confirmed fucking town but two other prob townies just discredit the wagon at every turn because they are confbiased, we get a static fucking game. Scum don't feel the need to scumhunt when they know that town will just stick their heads in their asses rather than look at or provide evidence.

You both are literally willing to do everything but progress the game as the only progress to you two is getting what you want.

NC is literally lying about the order things happened with Grapes, denying the shade they threw at A50, and denying scumreads they previously had in the thread.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

i never said grapes OMGUSed me. i was just saying that i did not OMGUS them. you're putting words in my mouth again, please stop.

you didn't address the other issues i talked about in 1289. the lack of Shiro scumread. you assuming i was townreading Creature. everything regarding Almost50. that i stated "that everyone should flavor claim to their neighbours". these are all false.

grapes was scumreading me before our hood, and during it. i was aware of this. i was townleaning them until we started to speak in our hood, when i realized they were not actually trying to sort me.

Yeah, you claiming your reads aren't what you literally said isn't something I need to correct anytime soon.

you are daft.

after your case i thought i might be able to talk with you. you're impossible and i give up. you're scum or just acting the fool. i did not "literally" say Creature was town, ever. you assumed. i "did" say Shiro was mafia. as a joke. about

Adventure Time

.
and i plain did not say "everyone should flavor claim to their neighbours" as you claim i did.

that's the last i will say to you.

1) You're playing semantics on your Shiro read.
2) You've never investigated SirCakez despite having them as strange, nor McMenno.
3) You OMGUSed the fuck out of A50 and that position is only softening under public pressure.
4) You did say why wouldn't you get your neighbors to flavorclaim to you? That's encouraging flavor claims and you trying to spin it as anything else is laughable.
5) You certainly treated Creature like a townread by your own admissions in the thread, namely that I didn't use the only ammunition to make the point.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, that's not what I said.

I said that you either have to a) engage us, or b) present a better alternative. Doing nothing is stalling the game. Looking at valid cases but not providing any reasons why NC is town is stalling the game.

It gives every excuse for scum to behave like you, because it was ok when Farside did it.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@CoolDog, how could we clear Not Chara once Mastina flips?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

give thoughts without flavor claiming?

we believe in you yume

No, you don't. You're just resigned to mocking me at every opportunity.

I believe in you.

Just don't talk about the topic that requires flavor claiming.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

If we somehow don't lynch chara today I'm allying him again so he can't use his scumfuck alliance ability or w/e.

How about a compromise.
We lynch sure cakez today and you keep nc to yourself.
What do you say?
I'll even be happy to lynch snarky too.
Pretty please with fish on top?
Wait that fish is for fire.

This compromise is hogwash according to the rules.

Why can't Cakey be the one to align with grapes? After all, those two are townreading each other so something productive may come of us.

A grapes/NC alliance just kills talking in a hood guaranteed.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@RR Well, the thing is, I am unsure. I have this problem differentiating between scum posts and town posts. Tbh, I play better as scum than as town. *goes off to the corner*

*pulls Yume back*

Hey, you're universally townread. It's ok to be wrong.

General life tip: Most regrets come from the things not tried. Take a shot. It's day 1, I have a theory on the scums, but I am not sure and testing it out some. I'm at NC - Creature - Cakey - Plus [redacted].

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Then deal with it, bippity-boppity-boop.

Well then your views are meaniless.
Thanks for playing.

Do you have the power to throw a player out of the game itself like you did with our alliance? If not, then I am stayin'

I wish it didn't have to be contentious, but please continue to speak your mind. Even if you're wrong here, most would agree this is a large improvement.

I absolutely disagree on Farside but please do try to articulate your points there.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@RR Well, the thing is, I am unsure. I have this problem differentiating between scum posts and town posts. Tbh, I play better as scum than as town. *goes off to the corner*

*pulls Yume back*

Hey, you're universally townread. It's ok to be wrong.

General life tip: Most regrets come from the things not tried. Take a shot. It's day 1, I have a theory on the scums, but I am not sure and testing it out some. I'm at NC - Creature - Cakey - Plus [redacted].

Yume is not a universal town read.

Let's find out.

Who here is town reading yume?
If so is it only because of mastin?

Does it matter? Unless you're arguing that Mastina is somehow scum, Yume's town.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@RR Well, the thing is, I am unsure. I have this problem differentiating between scum posts and town posts. Tbh, I play better as scum than as town. *goes off to the corner*

*pulls Yume back*

Hey, you're universally townread. It's ok to be wrong.

General life tip: Most regrets come from the things not tried. Take a shot. It's day 1, I have a theory on the scums, but I am not sure and testing it out some. I'm at NC - Creature - Cakey - Plus [redacted].

Yume is not a universal town read.

Let's find out.

Who here is town reading yume?
If so is it only because of mastin?

Does it matter? Unless you're arguing that Mastina is somehow scum, Yume's town.

I didn't know blinding believing every claim was a thing.

You're acting as if I do. We don't believe KTS's claim for a second, as evidenced in my ISO. Mastina's claim makes a whole lot of sense. Is it perfect? No. Yet, Beeboy has told me that people who object to claims such as that tend to be scum.

Stop trying to make facts fit to theories and have theories derived from evidence please.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Then deal with it, bippity-boppity-boop.

Well then your views are meaniless.
Thanks for playing.

Do you have the power to throw a player out of the game itself like you did with our alliance? If not, then I am stayin'

I wish it didn't have to be contentious, but please continue to speak your mind. Even if you're wrong here, most would agree this is a large improvement.

I absolutely disagree on Farside but please do try to articulate your points there.

She thinks I'm scum wking nc whom she is scum reading.she already made that clear.
Even though she hasn't explained her scum read and blindly just follows mastin.
So basically she is mastins button buddy.

Your wrlcome.

So you're saying that Yume's scum

with Mastina

because Yume is following Mastina's opinion?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Stop trying to make facts fit to theories and have theories derived from evidence please.

:rollseyes:

Seriously Titus, you of all people.

Baby, do you remember Suikoden?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Yume has lurked a lot in the past, that's why we're encouraging her to talk more.

The lurking is NAI for Yume.

Your theory depends on Mastina randomly lying for shits and giggles. Mastina is not a gambiter in that sense. I think she's even done a discussion article or two on not gambiting. (Not sure correct me if I'm wrong here on the article Mastina). It's like me randomly being in your face about a flavor crumb when the mod tells us not to.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

EVERYONE NOT VOTING CHARA CAKES OR RR EXPLAIN WHY THEY'RE TOWN OR HOP THE FUCK OFF YOUR SHITTY VANITY WAGON THANKS

Give me time on RR. They're more likely than not town. Am I certain here? Not in the slightest. We can only lynch one scum today though.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Baby, do you remember Suikoden?

dragons aren't babies.
We are hatchlings.

Get it right Titus.

Hatchling, you remember that game don't you?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

@Farside, I would like to get on the same page as you and Mastina.
Can you just highlight where we're wrong in your opinion?

Okay.

Lean Town

DGB

Don't want to lynch today but I see the points

RR

Needs More

X

Lean Scum

CoolDog

ScumReads

Kraskaeaque (kraska77 + lycanfire)
Seraphim
SnarkySnowman
Creature

Hard to Place, Would lynch

Cakey
KilltheStory (beeboy and I strongly disagree here, willing to go along with him)

DGB's a bit too high. RR is a viable lynch, because they are scum. X is scum. Cooldog isn't. Kraska isn't. Seraphim's not my top pick. SnarkySnowman's more likely town than not. Creature's one of my stronger townreads. SirCakez there shouldn't be ANY doubt at all about; dude's obvscum. And Killthestory shouldn't even remotely be a scumread.

I came around on Cakey as being a partner of NC due to the rule of 3.
DGB I kinda get. I haven't seen anything scummy from them though.
I doubt RR is scum, but I respect your opinion they are playing me.
CoolDog I just can't trust in my gut.
I agree on KTS town but I understand Beeboy's concerns (which I can't relay without ruining our entire game; don't ask).

Right now I'm at Creature + NC + Cakey + Redacted as a team but Redacted is withheld due to being a moonshot right now.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Baby, do you remember Suikoden?

dragons aren't babies.
We are hatchlings.

Get it right Titus.

Hatchling, you remember that game don't you?

vaguely

What do you remember about it?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

I feel comfortable lynching someone I'm scum reading.

What happens if your wrong about nc.
Does that mean you don't want to lynch sir cakez then?

Now, this feels like a catch 22. I would logically re-evaluate my reads if I was wrong, like anyone else. My Cakey read is partially derived from NC being scum (note I have said the rule of three). This naturally creates the concern that I wouldn't lynch Cakey if wrong. If I said I wouldn't re-evaluate my reads, you discredit me on the basis of being a tunneller.

The truth is, you're trying a logistical argument to try and get me to lynch Cakey today despite loading out a bunch of compromises that logically fail.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

That moment when you feel like you're surrounded by self-destructive, stubborn morons who all are

partially

right and yet are overly focused on the parts they

aren't

right on, and you're trying to figure out a way to get them to stop focusing on those parts and focus on the parts they got right.

So let the sir wagon happen then.
I'm not joining the NC wagon.
Sorry if that makes me stubborn.

And then what? We have the same argument about NC tomorrow and there's no conftown but Yume to guide us?

I feel comfortable lynching someone I'm scum reading.

What happens if your wrong about nc.
Does that mean you don't want to lynch sir cakez then?

Now, this feels like a catch 22. I would logically re-evaluate my reads if I was wrong, like anyone else. My Cakey read is partially derived from NC being scum (note I have said the rule of three). This naturally creates the concern that I wouldn't lynch Cakey if wrong. If I said I wouldn't re-evaluate my reads, you discredit me on the basis of being a tunneller.

The truth is, you're trying a logistical argument to try and get me to lynch Cakey today despite loading out a bunch of compromises that logically fail.

Nope.

I'm making a point about why I won't follow you and times it by 10.
I don't see why NC and sir cakes need to be attached together.
Sir cakes just does his catch up and from what I read will most likely vote nc.
Rr is under that same umbrella.
So what then.
You stick with your push on nc even though both clearly are just following you.
I can't believe you just ignore that and keep pushing.
If this is how your going to me the entire length of the game don't expect me to call yo7 nothing but a tunneler.

Even if you're right, Cakey bussing NC is not a problem. It's a good thing because NC is scum. RR and I have been discussing their reads and how they vote in the hood. They didn't want to be on it for fear it would turn people AWAY from the wagon, which is exactly the argument you are making now.

Who follows is a concern somewhat, but I find it slightly hypocritical that you expect me to be worried when scum bus but NOT worried when a wagon composed full of town fails to take. That doesn't make sense.

I have tried treating you with every ounce of respect and given you every OPPORTUNITY to say why NC is town. All I get is because you feel that way and many many personal insults. Do I need to put on a pirate hat? Do a funky dance?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Spoiler: Not Game Related to NC

This site has a thread for gender nonconformists. Get access to the speakeasy, it. Then you will find more support.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

By the way: the number of secret weapons I have against the scum in my readslist has increased from one to two.
There's two things they now all have in common.
Admittedly, they're related things.

But they're separate, and it'd be nice to reveal to you all what they are right now, but I need some patience to make sure I'm right in my inclinations right now.

Fair enough. I think we are going toe to toe eventually on RR/Creature but I hope not.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Good, we can start with McMenno, he has a history of lurking a lot in scum games.

He is not lurking though.