Micro 649: Normal Idea Mafia (Game Over)

[Sgz13]

VOTE: reso

Cause shortest name.

First time playing on MS so bare with me if I'm not familiar with some terms or stuff, played plenty elsewhere though.

Content will come when it isn't 1AM.

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Yeah I asked a couple of people I play with and we all agreed I'm too good for a newbie game

14 day days will be a new experience. Do days tend to go down to deadline on here or do lynches actually get done with some time left?

Where are you, out of curiosity? It's only 7pm here.

I'm in Spain

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VOTE: light_ganski

Got the same impression the lion got.

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I like policy lynches. But I'm not policy lynching for that. Essentially it's just a case of WIFOM for me, and it's not like we can't read itlepip some other way as the game goes on.

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I am actually leaning scum on itlepip based on his blasé reaction to it all.

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I'm sorry, but what exactly is WIFOM to you? Which/What case?

If he were scum he would, in theory, have been more careful. Or that's what we'd think at least. That's the case.

I could probably lynch him, but I'd rather play rather than hide behind "oh policy lynch" and get to D3 with still nothing going on.

[Sgz13]

Yes reso go to sleep.

And you'll notice the last posts before the inactivity period were all mine, can't type to myself.

I can talk to myself, but typing to myself is a step too far.

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Leonshade what's your experience level?

And how can I look these things up for future reference?

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Cool, cheers.

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VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Now you can moan about the activity levels in this game.

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Nice OMGUS.

That's why I was voting, see who came out of the woodwork.

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Are you saying I was online after I voted you Gamma? Cause I'm 99% sure I wasn't, and if I was all I did was open the main page and leave again.

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The other reason for voting, of course, was that you said the same thing both Leon and myself has said before you and it was pretty much your only content.

So there's that, too.

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What time was I supposedly online?

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How many hours ago?

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And Gamma, you should know that wasn't my primary reason for voting you, that's already worked how it was supposed to, don't get your knickers in a twist.

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Well that's when I posted...

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Yeah they couldn't have been cause I certainly hadn't read your posts until just now, and I'd been AFK for the about 5 hours before coming on here.

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Sgz13 His iso is bad especially these posts

What's an iso?

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Why in the world would I not just vote itlepip if I wanted pressure off my buddy reso Tere?

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I agree with you lot on Leonshade, but something at the back of my lizard brain is telling me he's almost "too townie". It was why I asked him his experience, as he was thinking pretty much exactly the same way I was. For now though I don't want to act on my borderline paranoia. If itlepip were to flip scum I might be more interested though.

[Sgz13]

Well, one decent explanation is that if itlepip is town he is lynchbait atm and your buddy reso was pushing him? At the point of your vote he had two votes on him, McMenno and reso. Moving yourself to him would push him to L-1 and make you both look very conspicuous.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

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Right. So, what's your read on reso? (plus what's your reads in general).

Okay. I'm null on reso. I get the issue with the "hiding behind the policy lynch" thing, and indeed am worried by it, but if you were convinced it was the right play, as a fairly new player, why would you not be persistent about it?

I already stated my read on Leonshade.

I was leaning scum on light, but you've come in and so far look townish.

Worried about Gamma, mainly him voting me, not really worried about the WTF post, but then if he is a guy that moves his vote around a lot it means his vote carries less weight and therefore I'm fine with it. His posts since his interactions with me seem fine.

Town read on Mcmenno. I mean maybe he's come up with the genius play to say L-2 when it was L-1, get his buddy itlepip to hammer D1, then aggressively bus him, but I mean if he did then well played.

Want to lynch itlepip, but don't feel the need to do it just yet.

Those are my reads or the lack there of.

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I believe BigYoshiFan, and I'm much happier with my vote than when I made it.

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#263

As much as your mumbo jumbo (apparently jumbo is a word but mumbo isn't) sounds smart, frustration is a thing, and would make BYF claim, and being ganged up on by your scum reads (been there, done that) while everyone else is out of thread is really really frustrating.

Itlepip is clearly a bit of a knob and I can see his hard claim actually being a joke or him messing about.

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What are you two even on about Tere and Heartache?

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I'm catching scum. What is your read on Heartache, please?

I don't want to lynch them today. Their reason for town reading me seems genuine. Not the fact they are town reading me, but the reason. I'm not sure scum would be able to spot what they spotted about my posts, and as I know it to be true it makes me feel more comfortable about the slot for now, although I'm not settled on that.

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I need to put in some work on this and re-read. Not sure when the 24 hours until the hammer ends but give me a few hours, need to do a couple of RL things then I'll come back and see what I can come up with. I'm just finding myself without much of an opinion at the moment, I think as I stand I'd lynch BYF over Heartache if those are the only two options, not thrilled with either of those lynches though.

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Let me do my re-read Tere, I'll make a lot more sense then I'm sure, I'll unpack everything and you'll know where I stand. Time has gotten the best of me though, I only have 50 minutes and I need to cook and eat, so you'll have to give me until tonight now (sorry for dragging this out, unforeseen circumstances).

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Am I losing it or are the Lion's eyes doing something funny? Just noticed that...

Anyways, that was my way of announcing I'm here and doing all the homework I should have done first time around.

Re-reading D1 makes me feel a bit better about Gamma. I mean who would you protect after that D1? Of course Jaaaaaaaaaaack could have been the NK, but we don't have the luxury of absolute certainties here.

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Um, because it's a really terrible idea because maths?

We had a lolhammer and a successful NK, so now at 2 scum 5 town. Jaack might have bodyguarded Leonshade (it's what I would have done with that role) but can't prove that. Whatever.

Policy lynch now and if he's a VI we are at 2:4. Successful NK and 2:3. Lylo tomorrow.... It's been a while but I think that's the maths.

Are you happy to vote reso and if not why not? Be specific

Missed this on first read. Which of Leonshade's 2 D1 posts made him protection worthy for you?

[Sgz13]

Well I'm feeling better about you based on #368 now.

[Sgz13]

I didn't really care about this at the time, doubt I will now, but for thoroughness's sake, what's an Amished tell?

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I will say that during N1, I thought I was going to pressure Jaack first thing D2, as I didn't like the way he jumped onto the Ari wagon. Not really game-relevant as it ended up not mattering, just a fun fact.

Stop reading the game the exact same way as me! It's freaking me out.

That's why I don't think Jaack was the kill, as he was likely to come under some pressure.

[Sgz13]

you and sgz are better lynches

maybe sgz should be today's lynch, who's up for that

What was making you suspect me at this time? Was it the fact I claimed to SR itlepip but didn't vote him?

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I've got to the Amished tell explanation.

That's a load of BS. Not you saying it, but the concept. I've replaced in for weirdos before and complained about it every time. And every time I was town.

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Happy with Heartache's read lists, I can follow the logic pretty much all the way, but then #221 where he asks for Leonshade and Tere to weigh in is odd.

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McMenno seems natural in thread but I still can't really remember him actually doing anything useful.

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No objections to the hammer on BYF.

Townleaning on Heartache. The lists make sense to me, and I actually like the idea personally. Asking for a massclaim, #221, and, I'll be honest, the fact that someone who clearly knows what they're on about seeming so convinced, are all things that are holding me back from full on townreading them.

I had my head up my own ass a bit with Gamma if I'm honest. He's still not a town read, but I'm not scumreading either.

Nothing has changed with Leonshade really, likely town but not 100% comfortable.

Tere is town, surely. She's my #1 town read, even though I don't think she's right about Heartache.

McMenno is now my most likely buddy for BYF if he flips scum. Doesn't look all that townie to me if he flips town either, although that's mainly because it becomes a PoE issue.

I think that's about it. I'll take questions from the floor if there are any.

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Heartache: Read list, with clothes on please.

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I'm pretty confident Heartache is town.

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It's Gamma or nobody for me today as we stand. Either of them could work.

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Tere, still townreading Leon?

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I am not sure I am, no. I am noodling on a Gamma / Leon scumteam.

Sounds about right to me.

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So who are you scum reading Leon?

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You still haven't said why you think I'm scum.

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I meant McMenno. I'm cool waiting for you to re-read to see what you can come up with.

[Sgz13]

Good to know Jaack was definitely the NK.

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McMenno stop being awkward and answer a straightforward question in a straightforward way please.

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I'd be happy to lynch Leon.

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Scum is 2 out of Leon/Gamma/McMenno. At that time, I couldn't really see how Gamma was the town one of the 3. I think I can now, so not really selling. Leon has overtaken him now.

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It was a slip, in that I forgot Jaack was a Bodyguard and might not have been the target of the NK. I also said there was no N2 NK, do you think that means that I let it slip I'm scum who did a no-NK gambit?

Nobody was killed, so no it doesn't.

Nice out of character emotional reaction.

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Leon hasn't actually done anything since the start of D2 other than blend. And at the start of D2 he was avoiding joining the itlepip wagon, it's certainly plausible he knew he was town.

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Lol pre flip associations FTW

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Where did Gamma go?

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90% certain Heart is town.

We're not lynching any of my 3 are we?

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I guess we no lynch today then.

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Read today, from the perspective that I'm town. It should make sense to you 1-shot.

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Who are your scum reads Gamma?

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I'm working on the assumption we have a protective or at least a BP.

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I'll look over the posts tonight. First 2 reads the only suspicion came from Reso though, and the little call for a massclaim from Heartache, but I'm willing to forgive one little post.

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I can't stop changing my mind on Gamma.

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Have you looked at the setup generation?

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What?

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You do realise your scum two is based on scum coming up with a weird plan and two other backup plans to the original far fetched plan right?

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That's a scumclaim.

Mcmenno is saying he's in control of who get's NK'd which is only true if he's scum here.

No, just no.

I'm not wrong about you am I?

[Sgz13]

This is terrible thought. I never see him actually explain any reads, and even when asked last night he just flicked around.

380 - There's nothing to back any of these reads, even Heart.

Meh. Can we have Tere back please?

Can we vote for no lynch on MS or do we have to wait until the day is over?

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Okay so this is why I see it as a scumclaim. He looks like he's softing protective to me, but I absolutely know that's not the case.

I saw it as a crumb that he gave with the plan of using it to counterclaim the real protective next day.

Sure, he's gonna protect his 2nd biggest scum read.

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I want a Heart full claim now tbh.

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#521 makes no sense. He's been claiming to scum read you all game, so why would he protect you? Nobody would believe that, hence the whole plan is flawed.

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Is that all you have to claim Heart?

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The TR on him was a tone thing to start with, not TRing him anymore (haven't been for a while) and I'm not in the business of TRing people just because they play scummy as both alignments.

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Heart is still town.

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VOTE: No lynch

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Go on then.

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Good boy.

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Leon, humour me, if Heartache is scum, who is their most likely buddy, and why?

Telling me it's me isn't a valid answer.

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No way in hell is that guy flipping town.

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But... you're the answer.

The only other one I'd even consider for Heartache's partner at this point is Gamma.

I mean, if neither you nor Heartache is scum, we're looking at a Gamma/McMenno team here. But I don't find that likely.

And this is why I think scum is you and McMenno.

[Sgz13]

Everyone agreed with this for tomorrow?

Agreed.

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Actually no, not agreed, I want you to claim after Leo, Gamma and McMenno.

[Sgz13]

Isn't the NL at L-2?

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Role: Weak doctor.

Actions: N1 didn't protect, protected Tere/1 shot the other two nights, so I can confirm that slot is town.

ftr I don't believe McMenno.

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You needed to look up what a weak modifier was?

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WIFOM I know but if I had gone for the kill and failed the first time I'd have the foresight to send my buddy to do the dirty work next time in case I was the reason it failed.

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So you werent completely ignoring me and the possibility I was scum because you had something that implied I was the protective? Really?

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Trying to make some sense out of all of this.

I still don't believe McMenno. If he has an ascetic modifier he can claim VT and be guaranteed to not get caught. Only thing that would explain the no kills would be that the new Gamma is flat out lying, which seems rather risky to me. I can see scum no killing last night, but the night before it seems like an odd line to take. Or that I was the N2 and/or N3 target, but that wouldn't be what I'd expect either.

[Sgz13]

Lmao I did the same thing in my head

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Why would Leon being jailkept cause Heart to get a no result?

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No

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We need to at least discuss my ascetic theory and how likely it is.

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1 shot confirm you got that nobody visited McMenno and not a no result please.

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You're right. Okay I believe you now.

You voting Heart because you think it's Heart-Leon or what? I couldn't follow your thought process there.

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There cannot be 2 protective roles, and weak doctor seems more believable than jailkeeper. Hmm.

You previously stated you read the setup generation when 1shot came in. So you should know this totally is possible.

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Really, two VTs being rolled is less likely. But I'm not going to doubt McMenno's claim just because of that.

2 VTs?

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Of course, I need to pay more attention.

Stochasticity man. I hate it.

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I'm back to wanting a McMenno lynch.

And the ISOs are terrible cause of itleprick mainly.

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VOTE: McMenno

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Me being the target N2 isn't that unfeasible really. The major scum reads on me didn't come until D3, plus there's the possibility my role was discovered or maybe there was a gut feeling I had a strong PR because of my lesser activity early on.

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Isn't it literally fact?

It's more so the cherry on top than anything else though, if you can follow any read progression in his iso please tell me how.

No, the chance we have 1 VT is 100%. The chance McMenno is a 2nd VT on setup alone is 21%. Simples.

Can we move on from maths now please?

Also, if you're talking about careless votes at mylo you just put someone at L-2.

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Anyone see a reason not to lynch Heartache at this point?

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You seem keen.

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VOTE: Heartache

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Does that vote have any purpose other than post flip confusion?

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Oh wow.

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Why do I get the impression you two are gloating?

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You hammered yourself.

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Just when I thought I knew who scum was he goes and flips town.

There's only one thing keeping me from voting McMenno at the moment, which is the fact that Heart open claimed he visited nobody on D2 before knowing roles or anything. And if he indeed visited Leon, there's a good chance that slot was watched, and Heart didn't need to go out and take that risk.

I'm working off memory here, I'll see if I get time to re-read, unlikely though, but I seem to remember Tere mentioning the fact Leon was "obvtowning it up". It struck me as a little odd at the time as I wasn't so certain on Leon, but I guess if you knew he was town it indeed does look like obvtowning it up.

And thinking about it, Tere townreading me after my re-read whenever that was could also be looking to justify Heartache's town read on me which was obviously buddying (easy to see now), and thinking about it they were the only two town reading me at the time.

Now looking at CFJ, I really have been getting town feelings from the slot for a while now. I felt Gamma genuinely couldn't be bothered with this game D3, and scum at that point would be more excited I feel, and CFJ is obviously town looking with the posts so far. Possibly a bit non committal sure but so was Leo.

Only concern now was (again from memory) I got the impression of scum ganging up on poor old BYF, and Heart happened to be one of them (along with Gamma).

I can't believe I'm saying this, but if we're lynching today (is this a spot we should no lynch in?) I think it should be 1-shot.

[Sgz13]

You make my content seem deep and insightful.

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There was one thing also I noticed, not sure how relevant it is, but light/Tere's spot didn't go down in Heart's lists when it should have (i.e. at around post 73). Maybe you lot can make something out of it, I can't, but figured it's better to point out than to not.

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Hard claim my role bites.

What bites more jailkeeper or roleblocker?

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I keep forgetting mafia jailkeeper and stuff like that is possible.

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VOTE: callforjudgement

Let's do this.

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Only scum would have looking town as their number 1 priority.

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Scum are allowed to kill and perform their action at the same time?

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Which way you leaning 1 shot?

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Considering Tere was town and Heart was scum, let's face it, it's much more likely Tere was the target than me after D2. I was the only guy townreading Heart at that point, makes no sense for me to have been the target, and they didn't know what role I had, I'm pretty sure that isn't possible.

Leon was jailed D2, CFJ claimed to have jailed me to avoid having 2 almost confirmed townies or to CC me before he read the thread or whatever not sure it even matters, and I stopped the kill on Tere, with scum no killing N3.

Occam's razor. I'm good with my vote.

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Balls

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You did well call. In the day you were the towniest player by the end, the NAs didnt really add up otherwise though.

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Nice to see Tere rates me, even though I didnt understand half of what she was saying in the dead thread. I thought I was a bit meh but I got there in the end which is all that matters. Good to know my early game gut reads are still on point (see Gamma naked vote early in D2), although they'll never be of any use cause I cant explain them :/