Micro 652 - Double Day Unlimited (Over)

[qubixes]

Is everyone done being excited about being able to vote for more than one person?

I don't understand. The fact that we can vote more than one person doesn't mean POE at the start of D1 is suddenly any better? I feel like I'm missing a joke or something.

I don't think we should stick to one wagon. The fact that we're able to have multiple wagons more easily seem like the most beneficial part of the double voter mechanic, because it forces scum to chose.

[qubixes]

I think town focusing on only one person is not very favorable either. It just leads to confbias and tunneling. With the multiple votes, you can be hammered by an "independent" now instead of only people on the other wagon, so if anything being on a L-1 wagon is more scary now than before.

[qubixes]

Yes, and that is why I have a friendly request for Lowell, Not_Mafia and ecane to unvote their BS votes, tyvm.

There is only 2 mafia in the game, so I suggest to have 0, 1 or 2 votes at maximum. I don't think we'll have too many wagons if everyone keeps it at that. It also makes counting votes much easier, and people can be actually held accountable for their votes.

[qubixes]

Scum prob in {malpascp, qubixes, ecane, Aelin}

What made you say this?

[qubixes]

These ''BS'' votes did generate the conversation, didn't they.

I do agree with the part that it produces much less pressure though.

UNVOTE: all

VOTE: nmego
VOTE: qubixes

Self-voting also generates discussion. But fair enough, I take it you did it to generate discussion then? Care to explain the vote on me?

[qubixes]

Fair, can't RVS when any vote puts someone to L-1

Aelin's statement is fair but actually trying to push the game forward would be nice.

Regardless of anyone acknowledging the post, what are your thoughts on it? Why do you think it should be acknowledged?

[qubixes]

@nmego: why are you trying to make other people vote?

[qubixes]

I feel we're well out of RVS now, so I don't really understand what the goal is at this point in time? Are you saying you're trying to engage them in the game by encouraging them to RVS?

Everyone was still at L-1 when flubbernugget made that remark, right?

[qubixes]

@ecane: But how do you find the difference between that and town saying putting people at L-2 is bad?

[qubixes]

I was trying to make people random vote* And that was directed to Aelin and malpascp who weren't very active as well.

I was asking them why didn't they random vote AT THAT TIME. not now

I'm confused, please explain how the two statements together make sense. You did suggest that Aelin could now make a vote since there have been a lot of unvotes. Do you suggest she make a RVS vote, or a serious vote? I'll repeat my original question then: what is the purpose of trying to make her vote?

Do you think participating in RVS is alignment indicative (if so which way)?

[qubixes]

Regardless of anyone acknowledging the post, what are your thoughts on it? Why do you think it should be acknowledged?

When someone doesn't have anything to say, directly interacting with them or talking about them is the best way to give them something to say

Why did you not start yourself then? "Did no one acknowledge this?" is kind of a weird starter. Do you think it is suspicious/alignment indicative or not?

[qubixes]

I still don't get it, are you always doing POE at the start on day 1? I mean, we have an extra lynch before getting to Lylo, but I don't see how that makes a didference for trying to find scum? And why Aelin instead of malpascp?

[qubixes]

Do you think getting accurate town reads is any easier?

[qubixes]

Aelin doesn't seem to be here. How is a vote going to help?

[qubixes]

I skimmed two of your town games and I didn't see you doing PoE, so you're apparently not doing it always at least.

I feel like you're doing busy work trying to get town read.

VOTE: creature

[qubixes]

UNVOTE: Creature

[qubixes]

qubixes, creature linked you to 2 of his games, did you see them? what do you think of that?

I actually read one of those, but I didn't get far enough to the PoE... Anyway, the big problem I had was not really the PoE itself, but more that it seemed like he was using it as a smoke screen, so that he doesn't need to take real stances on other people (other than apparently calling others town for *reasons*). I now read the two linked games more carefully (only early game), and I think in one of the games he takes more significant stances, while the other not so much.

[qubixes]

@Creature: which posts do you think are not made by newbscum?

I was townreading him mainly for 101. It just seemed a bit too bizarre and awkward to come from scum. If I assume for a second this is nervous scum going "oh shit I'm getting caught", I think 166 is a bit too contrasting with that idea.

@nmego: Which posts by lowell are (gut) screaming town to you?

[qubixes]

@Thor: which posts in particular are giving you a scum vibe?

[qubixes]

@Thor:

On Page 3 -
Nmego vibes very scum to me.

Did you find particular posts by nmego that gave you scum vibes?

What do you think of my (short) analysis of nmego in 176? I'll add that there does seem to be a change in attitude after getting (kind of?) called out by ecane in 142. All in all, I'm not seeing the obv-town, but I'm not really leaning scum on him either.

[qubixes]

@ecane: Why do you think my vote was terrible?

[qubixes]

For Nmego it is pretty much a body of work opinion. As noted in my earlier discussion about him - I find his posting pretty empty.
I think you finding his sudden eagerness to leap onto the Creature wagon to not be a particularly brilliant example to hold up as townish. Even if I presume he's town, he looks just eager to make any wagon happen in that post. If I presume he's scum he's opportunistic, and playing a protective game on himself. Neither is a particularly good look, and the scum one at least presumes he cares, so feels more likely in a vacuum.

I'm interested to hear nmego explain his reasoning, but if he's town, I'm assuming he feels strongly about the read, not just to make any wagon happen. How did you get that impression from the post?

He wasn't really in any kind of danger imo, at least superficially speaking from the way others seemed to read him. So he would have to realize that his non-committal style was going to be a danger to him. He might have for sure (that's why I added the ecane comment, because it reads as a hint in that direction), but given his newer player status this is at least somewhat less likely. Why do you think it could be opportunistic? Given the state of the game it's hard to imagine creature getting lynched over that, though to be fair newbie scum might not realize that.

I do agree with his posting being empty, and on the safe side for the most part. I could see newbie town doing that as well though.

[qubixes]

I'm trying to get a better read on nmego, so I'm trying to bounce off my ideas about the slot to you. I have a town read on your slot. Understanding your thought process could also help solidify (or not) both my reads (though most importantly nmego's). Anyway, if we agree, then yes it is kind of pointless.

I don't have anything to add to the accusations towards flubbernugget (i.e. I agree). I have no read on N_M, because of the lack of posts.

[qubixes]

@ecane:

I was having similar reservations about flubbernugget (57, 93). His answers felt a bit like evasive maneuvering. I thought Aelin made the most towny entrance this game, with a strong suggestion of a newer player. (Though it looks like I'm the only one...) Anyway, flubbernuggets question seemed a bit suggestive and as an attempted to start a fire without having to acknowledge starting it. If Aelin was a very experienced player, I don't think it would be as great a deal.

[qubixes]

How does evidence (or lack thereof) of the slot being newb matter to me claiming the slot is town?
I also note you dodged the question for a second time.

I told you why I thought nmego was town. I then gave you examples. I brought you to water and you didn't drink. That's fine. Handwaving that by accusing me of dodging your question is dishonest and scummy.

I think Thor is asking a very reasonable question. In 195 you talk about the "growing pains" of nmego being indicative of newb!town. Why would newb!scum not show these growing pains?

[qubixes]

unvote thor

, who wins this argument with flubber.

quib is scum. If I could doublevote him I would. He's too polished.

Uh, thanks? Why not unvote the rest to make my wagon more significant?

[qubixes]

I looked through nmego's other game (scum). It looks like at least his productivity isn't very alignment indicative. His demeanor looks a bit less like a newbie in that game, which confuses me a bit, but perhaps that is because it was a Newbie game. His style was quite different than in this game though. Oh, and it seems he got replaced 2/2 games so far...

[qubixes]

@Thor- my move was bold and awesome. Her move was designed to look brave but was actually an attempt to stall progress. When someone does something exciting, then someone else does a lesser version of that same thing, the second person is scummy.

Also, creature is now town.

So, putting 2 people at L-1 on the second page is more towny than putting everyone at L-2? I know that anti-town != scum, but are you subscribing to the idea of anti-town == town? Or do you think putting two people at L-1 so early is actually kind of ok?

Why is creature now town? From what I can tell he is moving in rather the opposite direction (from yours).

[qubixes]

I'm having some trouble with placing flubbernugget. From an "objective"/"rational" point of view he checks a lot of boxes.

- Makes a suggestive post on Aelin, then later declares he wasn't suspicious.
- Theory talk
- Calls nmego obvious town, but has a hard time explaining it.
- Defending in a rather evasive way.
- Seems to focus more on defending than scum hunting when under pressure.
(- Double voting)

Then again, for some reason I'm still not sure. I think it has to do with his style of posting.

@Thor: you seem to have some experience playing with flubber. Do you have additional insight on the way he is posting here?

@flubber: Apart from defending yourself, what are your thoughts on the game? Do you think Thor's attack on you is scum or town motivated? Do you (strongly) scum read ecane?

VOTE: flubernugget

[qubixes]

@Creature: we have one pending replacement, and two slots with abysmal activity, so that's not great.

I'm getting a bit tired of Lowell's responses though.

@Lowell: are you always like this?

[qubixes]

@Creature: Not_mafia and malpascp... Lowell has at least taken some stances...

[qubixes]

With the unlimited votes I doubt we'll have trouble securing a lynch. What is it about RachMarie? She is not in this game I think?

[qubixes]

Well, if there is a game to lynch someone for inactivity I'd say it's the one where you have an extra lynch before LyLo. I prefer to wait for the replacement first though.

[qubixes]

@flubber: Apart from defending yourself, what are your thoughts on the game? Do you think Thor's attack on you is scum or town motivated? Do you (strongly) scum read ecane?

VOTE: flubernugget

My reads really haven't changed. I could see Thor as scum in a vacuum. His perspective on 46 is REALLY shady, as highlighted by 198, 218, 222, 224, 251, and part of this post. However, nm and lowell are still stronger scum reads. NM may not be very active as town, but he knows how to post at least

something

relevant. Lowell's continuous question dodges from ecane and 230 are also

really

bad.

Why do you think I am only defending myself when I talk to Thor?

also, quote me where I said I scum read ecane

I disagree with you that Thor's perspective is shady, but your perspective is obviously different from mine.

I reread the last part of the ISO, and I still think the majority of your posting lately has been defensively, regarding your actions at the start of the game and the nmego town read. I didn't actually say you were

only

defending yourself, just that it seems to be the focus.

I didn't say you scum read ecane... I asked you whether you did! The reason I asked it was because of:

Ecane's 26 looked like pushing towards an easy accidental mislynch under the guise of getting reactions. This is especially so considering there was some decent anti town behavior that sat before 26 for comment

If you don't have a scum read on ecane, you are just throwing shade around. So did you scum read ecane or not? Because your "show me where I said I scum read ecane" is suggesting you don't scum read her.

[qubixes]

@mod:

Can you prod Not_Mafia? (Almost 3 days without posting.)

[qubixes]

@N_M Wow, that was a quick summon... Thoughts on the game?

Reading through the rules it should be for both lynches, because it says a Day is two weeks and there are two lynches per Day... Didn't realize that though, so I understand Creature's worries better now. We should try to have some time after the flip to discuss the next lynch.

VOTE: lowell

(L-1)

[qubixes]

Ehhh.... And apart from that?

[qubixes]

Why is N_M town? Still the same reason for scumreading me?

[qubixes]

Nmego opportunistic? When he FoS'ed ecane? What does that have to do with your comment on ecane?

[qubixes]

Thor accused nmego of being opportunistic. I wanted to know why he pointed this out without saying anything about three other players that were behaving in a similar way.

You're not making much sense to me, but maybe it's just me being thickheaded.

Does no one want to play this game or something? Let's try summoning N_M again...

VOTE: Not_Mafia

(L-1)

[qubixes]

If three players are acting opportunistic, what sense does it make to only call out one of them?

I presume you are talking about the following:

If I presume he's scum he's opportunistic, ...

It does not sound like a strong call out towards nmego being opportunistic (given the conditional form). Also it was a response to my analysis specifically on nmego.

Regardless, my question still stands. Do you scum read ecane (for 26)?

[qubixes]

@Creature: Hard to say about Not_Mafia, given the activity, but I don't think the fake hammer looks particularly towny to me. The fact that he posted a couple of minutes after calling for a prod on his slot seems rather suspect.

UNVOTE: flubbernugget

[qubixes]

@Not_mafia: any opinions on anything?

I am not sure malpascp activity is NAI, since he seems to be more active on the site than he is in this particular game. Does anyone have personal experience with his lurking style?

VOTE: malpascp

[qubixes]

@Flubbernugget: It *could* be that Aelin panicked because of your question and didn't dare to post anymore. ^_^

[qubixes]

VOTE: Lowell

[qubixes]

VOTE: Lowell

[qubixes]

@Gamma: Hi!

It was basically a policy lynch.

[qubixes]

@ecane: What is your beef with me?

[qubixes]

He more or less refused to play this game, while posting elsewhere. See the "thank you" after being hammered.

[qubixes]

Maybe I'm not speaking for everyone, but I didn't think he had (much) more than 2/8 chance to be lynched. The deadline was also getting closer, and I couldn't get N_M or Lowell lynched.

[qubixes]

Maybe I'm not speaking for everyone, but I didn't think he had (much) more than 2/8 chance to be lynched. The deadline was also getting closer, and I couldn't get N_M or Lowell lynched.

How were you trying to get them lynched? You haven't even mentioned them much during the game.

I put them both at L-1. I'm not saying I tried very hard by arguing, that's true. In that sense I haven't really tried to get anyone lynched really.

Currently, I'm feeling quite strongly about Lowell though. I think his reaction to N_M's fakehammer can easily come from scum. He points at N_M being obv town, which if Lowell flips scum gives about 0 information to town. And he just repeats his read on me.

[qubixes]

VOTE: flubber
I feel like we've been trying to do this forever. That it keeps getting stalled is a good sign we're on the right track.

"We"? Looking at your voting history, there is little trace of it. And it's not like you have been pushing it otherwise either. Or do you mean "we" as in the scum team?

Also, you forgot to vote me. Or did I lose my scum status?

[qubixes]

No, he didn't yet? Or am I missing something?

[qubixes]

@Thor: Do you think missing something you said is indicative of scum though? Personally, I'd think scum to be more concerned about keeping their story straight/not making mistakes than town is. And I think you're bending the truth quite a bit by saying the insistence of getting an answer is an attack. Yes, it could be used as a line of attack, but as it stands he was just trying to get an answer.

And it's kind of funny you accuse flubber of desperately attacking you. From my perspective it is the complete opposite. You are desperately attacking flubber since you came into this game, whereas flubber has been mostly defending himself against it. I mean, he tried to get Lowell and Not_Mafia lynched, not you!

I looked through the interactions between you and Lowell, and if Lowell flips scum I'm pretty sure you're his partner. If he flips town, I'll have to think a bit more..

[qubixes]

Uuhhh, hi!?

[qubixes]

Ugh, this game. I feel like I might as well random vote. Not sure about N_M yet. It would be kind of the third low engagement vote, and so far there hasn't been much success...

VOTE: ecane

[qubixes]

I also sorta like ecane, who has an odd amount of hate on her for no clear reason.

What makes you say this? Apart from nmego's retracted FoS and Lowell's (more or less) retracted read, I don't think she got much flak at all?

[qubixes]

@Quibixes What caused you to unvote creature in 174? You just sort of did it.

I looked more deeply into the two games he linked and figured I didn't have much against creature.

[qubixes]

Apart from the three or so people attacking her I agree she has no heat?

Oh yeah I forgot flubber's swipe. Still, none of these actually wanted her lynched. Do you think she was in any danger at any point?

[qubixes]

Then how do you define taking heat? Because from my perspective she wasn't pressured all that much. By my own definition at least half of the players took more heat than her:

Lowell [lynched]
Malpascp [lynched]
N_M
Flubber
Creature (arguable)
Qubixes (arguable)

I just don't understand why you pick her out as someone who took "an odd amount of heat".

[qubixes]

I define heat as attacks/scum reads.
I will agree a lot of those names took more heat than her, I would disagree that she deserved more heat or that they didn't deserve the heat they got.

Uhh.. I think you just said that Lowell's lynch was "lame" (but deserved?), and you defended me from ecane's accusations.. Anyway, that's not really the point I'm trying to make. I have trouble with why you picked her out with these reasons, while:

1. She didn't take a particular large amount of heat.
2. The heat she took doesn't seem overly unfair. I didn't think her entrance was particularly scummy, but I don't think it was a beacon of towniness either.
3. How it makes her town? Both scum and town are going to take "undeserved" heat for things, and we know at least one of the "attackers" flipped town.

One of the things that really concerns me about her is how she has been basically riding her reads from very early Day 1 to now with very little change. Do you disagree? She also seems to be rather focused on a few people (the opposite of casting a wide net as town). Do you disagree?

@ecane: FYI, my vote wasn't random.

[qubixes]

255 was listing the reasons why I think he was scum, not town.

And yeah I wanted a lynch sooner than later, given that we would have very limited time for the second lynch of the day. Tried the Lowell lynch, stalled. Tried the N_M lynch, stalled. And with all the inactive people we'd have a pretty dead game by now if we had lynched the more active people. Even so, it still feels kind of dead.

And welcome to the club of people that think my town game sounds forced/artificial.

[qubixes]

Uhh.. I think you just said that Lowell's lynch was "lame" (but deserved?), and you defended me from ecane's accusations.. Anyway, that's not really the point I'm trying to make. I have trouble with why you picked her out with these reasons, while:

I didn't say that about Lowell, I said that about Mal.
I fail to see what me disagreeing with ecane's reads has anything to do with what I'm saying (I don't think you do either)

You said you disagreed that the players on the list didn't deserve the heat, which seems to contradict you defending me and saying Mal's lynch is lame. Anyway, I feel it's a technicality that's not going to help me either way (in determining your alignment).

1. She didn't take a particular large amount of heat.
2. The heat she took doesn't seem overly unfair. I didn't think her entrance was particularly scummy, but I don't think it was a beacon of towniness either.
3. How it makes her town? Both scum and town are going to take "undeserved" heat for things, and we know at least one of the "attackers" flipped town.

1. Immaterial to my point.
2. When you look at what she was attacked over, I disagree.
3. The attacks on her don't make her town, and I never said that - I said she got undeserved heat.

1. I think it does matter, because you specifically picked her out to say she took an odd amount of heat. I'm trying to figure out why exactly it is so that you say it that way, whereas when I think about her this game it doesn't stick out to me.
2. So you think her actions were more likely to come from town? I personally think her entrance was more or less NAI (though the "Yo yo." sounds a tad forced to me compared to her other posts), but you disagree?
3. You melded her being town and her taking undeserved heat in the same sentence, which made me think they were somehow related. But you're right that they don't technically have to be. So, why do you think that she is town then?

One of the things that really concerns me about her is how she has been basically riding her reads from very early Day 1 to now with very little change. Do you disagree? She also seems to be rather focused on a few people (the opposite of casting a wide net as town). Do you disagree?

A few thoughts here;

I don't disagree - but then I think a lot of other players are also doing this.
You are acting on the presumption that town cast a wide net - which is a presumption I disagree with.

Well, I didn't come up with that presumption (stole it from someone more experienced than me), but if you disagree, ok. And yes, unfortunately a lot of players are doing this, I agree. Creature seemed to be one of the few that actively was adjusting his reads on the fly. Doesn't make the action less scummy though, just better at blending in with the rest.

[qubixes]

@Aeronaut:

And yeah I don't like to force my reads to be strong. If I'm unsure of my read I'm going to show I have doubts. Sorry, I guess? If you take my viewpoint for a second during Day 1, can you imagine that I don't know who is scum? Also, I think it's pretty clear I took Thor's side initially in his attack on flubber, and changed my mind at the end of the Day. And it was also pretty clear I took ecane's side in her attack on Lowell? Regardless, what is the point of fence sitting on Thor vs flubber for example if I'm scum? Unless you think it's exactly me and flubber as a team?

[qubixes]

You said you disagreed that the players on the list didn't deserve the heat, which seems to contradict you defending me and saying Mal's lynch is lame.

Actually I said *some* of them deserved heat.
If you're going to debate me can we please fact check your comments so I don't have to start every rebuttal pointing out that you're not following the flow logically?

I think your wording was at least slightly ambiguous, but ok. If I'm not following the flow, I'm either misreading or it doesn't follow my own logic. I don't see what's wrong with figuring out which of the two it is. From my experience here so far, it seems I'm doing a pretty decent amount of fact checking compared to others, so..

1. Why does that matter? Like, what's the scum motive you're attributing to me here? If I'm *defending* her because she's my scumbuddy - then I think she's being attacked. If I'm *defending* her because I'm scum and want freebie town points for protecting town then I think she's being attacked...so...?

2. Yes, I do think so, and yes I disagree with you. I would think that was pretty clear already - since I'm not calling her scummy.

3. Because she isn't doing anything scummy, and multiple other people are. Why do you think she's scum? Apparently for tone or something, which means you're attacking her off your feels rather than a valid reason, which is undeserved heat. Huzzah - we have made the circle.

1. I'm not attributing a scum motive. If you read my post to Aeronaut, I'm currently not sure on you or flubber. The most important part is that I'm trying to find out is why you have that particular perception of Ecane getting undeserved heat. I'm (currently) not doubting you actually believing that, regardless of either of your alignments. I find that matching perceptions like these can be a useful way to find out whether another player is town, and admittedly a little less useful in figuring out whether the player is scum. I think it is kind of weird though you're going "what? are you scumreading me" for the second time, when I'm not actually doing so. Is my line of question weird or something?

2. Saying someone is not scummy or towny are two different things in my opinion. I'm kind of surprised that you found her entrance towny. Can you explain why?

3. I feel that since she has been relieved from the pressure, she hasn't really showed much sign of trying to figure the game out. Also looking at her "push" on me, it doesn't look like much, since she has to be asked for reasons while there is/was basically no momentum. Note that I was reading her as town during most of Day 1 as well, but I'm reconsidering that position.

Well, I didn't come up with that presumption (stole it from someone more experienced than me), but if you disagree, ok.

Do you agree with it?

I'm currently testing it . It's something that makes sense to me intuitively. Though, I feel like I need more experience to see (as with every scum tell) in which situation/person it has actual merit. I also feel I might be using it a bit "inside-out", where it might be more useful to find (specific) town and not scum.

And yes, unfortunately a lot of players are doing this, I agree. Creature seemed to be one of the few that actively was adjusting his reads on the fly. Doesn't make the action less scummy though, just better at blending in with the rest.

If it's non-alingment indicative, why are we talking about it?
If scum do it to blend in, that means town does it, and then it's stupid to use it in a case, yeah?

I meant that a lot of players are doing it this game specifically, and yes it means that some town players are doing that in this game, which makes this game feel rather stale.

[qubixes]

Of the current two vote wagons, I oppose the one on me and qubixes and support the one on Flubber.
I would compromise for an N_M.

I'd love some other people to weigh in with wagon thoughts - or at least state that they are utterly on standstill waiting for the replacement.

The thing that makes me worried about Flubber flipping town is mostly the way he has been defending himself I think. It just seems so ineffective at actually accomplishing something (i.e. relieving the pressure). It's like every time he just digs the hole deeper without any actual need to do so. I just don't see the motivation for that as scum, but of course he could just be scum messing around.. It is like every time he reacts, he just sees the thing right in front of him, losing the bigger picture, which I feel as scum he should have because he actually knows the alignments. I tried finding some games of him, but I found only like 10 town games... (In which he did sound a bit different.) Logic wise I agree with you for the most part, but I'm just not feeling scum!flubber (yet). That's also why I would like N_M to explain his "one of the two must be scum" reasoning, because I don't see any evidence this cannot be TvT. So far this game, getting anything out of him is a rather pointless exercise though.

[qubixes]

Ok, I'm starting to see your point about my approach being perhaps slightly... unconventional? And given that she being replaced, I'll just wait to see what the replacement brings to the table. I did find something interesting while looking through her ISO (hint: it's not her first post), but I'll look at it more carefully when the replacement comes in and see what they have to say.

UNVOTE: ecane

Regarding flubber, I agree there is no motivation as either alignment. I just feel he would have a

more

effective defense as scum. And yes, I totally see how that sounds incredibly backwards. So maybe I'm wrong. I'll have to see more when he comes back from being sick.

[qubixes]

@Flubber:

I was fence sitting to try and make town run out of time to get two lynches in? Are you sure you want to go with this accusation?

Your foot in mouth comment doesn't make any sense to me. Is it about my comments on the "wide net" scum/town tell?

[qubixes]

Sure why not. Why are you trying to threaten me?

I don't know what you mean by wide net

Because it is kind of nonsensical? I voted almost every viable wagon Day 1 (You, N_M, mal, Lowell), how is that trying to stall to vote? Yes, as has been noted by Aero, I wasn't the earliest on the wagons, but that was partly me not realizing we wouldn't get more time after the lynch. And it wasn't like I was the problem that the game was stalling, when about half refuses to give almost any content. And where were you talking about my stalling tactics Day 1 if you thought that way about it? If you thought I was scum, you already had two others thinking the same thing. And please explain to me if you were so worried about the time we had for the second lynch, why give Mal more time?

SCP you have till tomorrow night to make a catch up post. I am going to hammer if I don't see one.

Note this is

after

I jumped on all wagons to try and get a lynch done asap. I know little more than a day is not that much, but still looking back, that sounds pretty hypocritical, no?

And I wasn't "threatening" you. I mean what can I threaten you with? A vote? A good rebuttal/argument on why you're scum? That sounds kind of ridiculous. Especially given that my own position isn't exactly conf town for everyone. But it's good you feel threatened, I guess?? I can understand why you would feel threatened as scum... I was giving you an opportunity to either tell me my interpretation was wrong, explain your argument better, or admit that it sounds pretty silly indeed. And yes, I was mildly entertained by the suggestion..

[qubixes]

Oh, and the wide net casting argument says that (new) town are more likely to be reacting/reaching out to a wider range of players than (new) scum. At least that is how I understand it.

[qubixes]

Wow, this game is really dead until we get a replacement it seems. :/

[qubixes]

I thought I should wait for the replacement before putting someone to L-1. I don't have particular strong town reads, but as it stands I think you and Aero are the most likely to flip town.

Flubber still seems to be very counterproductive to his own "agenda" if he has one, which confuses me. It could be very well that I'm just WIFOM'ing myself into oblivion, trying to image what scum "should" do. His insistence that I'm trying to stall the game is ridiculous though.

It's hard to say anything about N_M. It's kind of frustrating to play with people that play like that :/.

I have heard the "you sound artificial" enough times from town that I don't think it makes him scum. (And it's also the same reason I didn't scum read ecane for it at the start of the game.) I had a slight town read on nmego, and Aero didn't really change much.

I would like to put ecane's slot under the magnifying glass, but since she's being replaced, I don't think that makes too much sense right now.

I think your slot looks pretty reasonable. You seem to be trying to solve the game by using pretty straightforward and transparent logic and reasoning, which is fine. Though I think you would (and should) do a similar thing if you were scum, given how the game has been going so far. So, innocent until proven guilty?

Right now I'm leaning towards voting flubber when we have a replacement. N_M wouldn't be so bad, but we learn very little if he flips town. I want to wait for ecane's replacement before voting that slot.

[qubixes]

I thought I should wait for the replacement before putting someone to L-1.

Why? What does that change?

Probably not so much. I was thinking a derphammer being a bad thing. Though now with Aero on board, we might actually make a lynch happen before the replacement comes in.

I don't have particular strong town reads, but as it stands I think you and Aero are the most likely to flip town.

Why an Aero town read?

I don't have much to be honest. I thought nmego was slightly more town, and his attack on me seems to be more of an uninformed towny one than scum. It also does not make too much sense from an opportunistic angle, because I think there were more viable wagons than mine.

N_M wouldn't be so bad, but we learn very little if he flips town.

What do we learn if Flubber flips town?

Ehh... It's bound to contain more information than N_M's lynch, because players have actually voiced an opinion more than "ur useless" on him. Btw, I'm not the person to advocate "lynch for information", far from it. But so far we have been lynching

with

very little information, and I feel if we do that again finding the last scum is going to be

very

hard..

[qubixes]

You're highlighting the reason I called you out because...?

It sounded bad to me?

Anyway, declaring intention to hammer. We have only 4 1/2 days left, which is not so much (also given that the flip might take some extra time as well). I'll hammer tomorrow morning/afternoon if nothing changes.

[qubixes]

I wanted to give him a chance to say something useful/game changing as town. Doesn't look like it though.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

[qubixes]

Looks like I really did psych myself out with the "what scum would do". Anyway, I'll cross off Thor and N_M from the list (for now), so that leaves Aero and ecane's slot. I still think it is ecane's slot, but a Aero bus in this situation does make *some* sense. I'll start digging through ecane's ISO probably tomorrow (when I have time), but the funny thing I noticed was actually a reaction to flubber... Hopefully we'll have a replacement by then for ecane.

[qubixes]

I'm aware I might look like the most likely bussing candidate. I'm not sure it was really the pressure cooking moment, since I already explained why I wasn't voting yet (waiting for the replacement). So I think he could foresee that and make sure I look like the most likely busser by preempting me/the replacement. That said, I still think it's ecane, so.

VOTE: ecane (L-1)

[qubixes]

Yeah, and I can see the other side of the argument as well. I guess it doesn't really makes sense to try and convince you of my innocence right now. If we're wrong I'll have my worked carved out for me tomorrow, ha!

Still kind of curious why you switched so easily on ecane though? Is it just that it doesn't look like a bus? What about your earlier feelings she was town?

[qubixes]

*sigh*
Yeah, multiple voters are the pits.

I still tend to expect a scum on that Lowell wagon.
Holds solid with my Ecane/Quibixes thoughts.

Why do you expect scum on the Lowell wagon, when Flubber was already on it?

[qubixes]

Well, Aero's slot was not around when that happened, so..

Yes, flubber did attack ecane, but then also claiming it wasn't an attack/scum read to me if I recall correctly. Don't think ecane was really low hanging fruit at that point though, since only Lowell was (softly) attacking ecane.

pedit: that was nice and quick..

[qubixes]

At least it saves ChaosOmega from having to find a replacement!

[qubixes]

Yay!

At least I was kind of right on ecane D2 . I'm surprised we won with the amount of apathy in this game though. It looks like I'm doing a bit too much overthinking.

[qubixes]

Also, this is the first game I reached end game, so yay for me not being lynched/NK'ed!

Overall I had fun though. My tussles with Thor were a little bizarre, but that's ok .

[qubixes]

If everyone plays like that there is very little to spectate.

[qubixes]

Hi Infinity! It would be a pretty casual L-1 from me though on my team mate on Day 1. I guess it's possible, but with so many lynches to got through..

[qubixes]

I will agree your tussle with me was bizarre - I still have no idea where you were going with any of that.
It was kind of like Aero accussing me of protecting him. Like, seriously.

In both cases I wanted to convince you to question your read, because I thought it might be wrong. So I wanted to test how strong your conviction was and perhaps see why

I

was wrong as well, because in neither instances I felt super confident about my own read. I thought by questioning your read and your willingness to defend it or give it up I might also get a better read on you. I can totally see why it is confusing though, and looks like I'm attacking you. So, in the future I should probably try and be more clear about what I'm trying to achieve, though sometimes it could be helpful for the other not to know. I was right though in both cases (nmego=town, ecane=scum), so it might just be more of a point to be more confident in the read.

[qubixes]

Good win though guys, I hope I was a semi-helpful replace-in!

I think voting scum when it matters is pretty helpful!

@Gamma: We won!

@ChaosOmega:

Thanks for modding!

[qubixes]

Both times you were digging into me for reactions on tertiary reads though - and ignoring my prime reads.
By definition my tertiary reads are going to be more soft and more gut - and in neither case was I trying to hard argue the opposite stance.
For Nmego - I was sorting his newbness and how it was affecting reads of him.
For Ecane I was sorting the empty attacks on her.
Still seems weird.

Well, I agreed with your reasoning on Flubber/N_M, so there wasn't much I could do there. (I never really disagreed with your reasoning on flubber, was just worried you were missing something deeper)