Mini Normal 1841 - At The End... (GAME OVER)

[Infinity 324]

Hey guys, this is gonna be awesome!

VOTE: transcend

[Infinity 324]

I'm down for policy lynching transcend

[Infinity 324]

Already, children?

[Infinity 324]

I've given up on reading anyone who has "stral" in their name

This is also a convenient excuse to ignore anything they post.

[Infinity 324]

*yaaaaaaaaaawn*

Who the fuck woke me up this time.

*push myself up and stumble around a bit before kicking a bottle of Stella Artois, and almost falls back to the ground*

Jesus Christ it's gonna be a long fucking day.

[Infinity 324]

@dunn Does that mean you will give reasons for your reads, or...?

[Infinity 324]

no fun allowed

Have fun, just don't make the fun incoherent to the people who aren't in on it.

Sorry dude, most people in this game have played with each other before and it's hard not to let that affect us. I'll try my best.

[Infinity 324]

So you are saying it's NAI.

Yep

Generally i play to make myself unreadable.

Is this even a viable strategy (for Town)

No, you want to look town as town

Townleans are Alpaca, Infinity, Zach, Transcend and Xnadroj.
Scumleans are Math and Creature.

Uh

Townreading people for early game tone is probably not a good idea in this game

I really don't know what to think about this

Just felt like getting a reaction out of him since we have nothing to work on.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

Tbh I felt like that was a fair reaction.

This is kinda weird, but not scum lol

[Infinity 324]

Anyway I'm pretty sure transcend is town

Mathblade looks pretty towny to me too actually

Let's do this

VOTE: creature

[Infinity 324]

@All anyone care to explain the shit posting before?

Do you care to explain yours?

Do you care to quit asking leading, factually inaccurate questions?

1) Shitposting is posting not related to the game at hand.

People were Shitposting about a prior game. I asked about it.

Kaboom.

You be scums. Hide in fear.

This is just what dunn does lol

serious question; what do you plan to accomplish with that vote?

You know math isn't going to get the run-up

Why wouldn't I get the run up? Everyone should be poked and prodded. No one is immune.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain.

This is more than a stretch, beyond a reach, this is annoying me

You know it isn't. Pre determining which players will and won't be wagoned is scummy as fuck.

I like this post.

Spoiler: Reasoning

Acrually pursuing a topic rather than ignoring it, feel that scum would like to drop a topic if no one follows

Man

I give too many townreads on people too early, but it's hard not to townread this. This just oozes sincerity.

[Infinity 324]

Actually, I already changed my mind as I was reading through...

VOTE: Transcend

Because you are hiding behind WIFOM, to use it as deflection. While the reasoning is null-aligned, this is very scum-aligned and you think you can get away with it!

What specifically are you talking about here

[Infinity 324]

Can we not

I'm just learning how to read him

[Infinity 324]

Oh lol

I don't think scum usually lie about their playstyle in general though

Transcend usually enters the game kinda awkwardly as scum, here here's coming out guns blazing which looks town to me.

[Infinity 324]

I think my entrance this game was awkward

[Infinity 324]

um when transcend finesses as scum he enter smooth as fuck

Example?

[Infinity 324]

Can you explain why transcend claiming to be unreadable is scummy though?

Also, scum tend to play more cautiously since they are afraid of being caught.

[Infinity 324]

Can you explain why transcend claiming to be unreadable is scummy though?

Because if he was town-aligned, he would not care about his appearances. Here, Transcend is posturing solely to make himself look town-aligned or at worst null-aligned.

Ok, but transcend claims to do that every game as town.

Do you not believe him? If so, why?

Can you try to think beyond the surface a little more? It will let me get a better read on you for one, and I think you'll find your reads will be more accurate.

[Infinity 324]

I have an idea.

When you're scrolling down the page and see a box with a picture of a dragon-like creature in an orange background, keep scrolling.

[Infinity 324]

Actually mini 1796 was exactly what I was talking about when I said awkward entrances as scum

He was kinda cautious and I remember him talking about theory a lot rather than the game

In any case it was a scummy entrance and I thought he was scum at the beginning of that game. I don't see anything resembling the same thing here.

[Infinity 324]

i watched him finesse a whole town in dunns game

like they lynched TITUS oh my god

But was his entrance strong?

[Infinity 324]

I get you're paranoid of transcend, zach. But that doesn't mean there aren't reliable ways to townread him.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: inspector

Fluffs and shitposts, then points it out himself, like that makes it any better. Seriously, he hasn't done any scumhunting whatsoever this game.

[Infinity 324]

Jarjar, I would like you to understand 2 things before you continue:

-People can have bad reads
-You can have bad reads

So scumreading people for disagreeing with you is

[Infinity 324]

I don't remember you being this shallow :/

[Infinity 324]

I'm not scumreading anyone for disagreeing w/ me. I'm scumreading people for having garbage reads that they shouldn't have.

So you're scumreading people for strongly disagreeing with you?

I'd like to believe you're a better player than this :/

[Infinity 324]

I wonder if Transcend-Infinity is scum-scum; their interaction did strike me as such... (Obviously since I'm so good at reading single people there can't be anything wrong with making preflip associatives )

Uh

Townreading people for early game tone is probably not a good idea in this game

I really don't know what to think about this

One post later:

Anyway I'm pretty sure transcend is town

Ok you're right but

Transcend's entrance was so drastically different from the one in mini 1796 that I think it means something

[Infinity 324]

Seriously

Anyone down for not policy lynching?

[Infinity 324]

Also there may or may not be a higher-than-average amount of fucking around this game cause most of us know each other

Also cause there happen to be 2 people with "stral" in their name in this game

[Infinity 324]

I don't want to tell why I am townreading Transcend, but it's pretty valid imo

Sigh

PEdit: why vote ira?

[Infinity 324]

PEdit: why vote ira?

Wake's role madness.

Siiiiigh

You know there are things called "details" you can use, not to mention that thing called "meta from both sides".

VOTE: Dunnstral

He seems too confident to know that Creature and Transcend are scum-aligned together this early...

See here's a vote I disagree w/ but it's not quite as terrible cause there's actually some reasoning. Therefore it's not a garbage read.

So is a vote that you disagree with that doesn't give reasoning scummy? I don't get what you getting at, but whatever it is it seems incredibly shallow to me.

[Infinity 324]

Why do people think Math is town? Their posts are way off to me.

Why can't that be our speedlynch?

I agree their posts are off but in more of a towny trying-to-get-things going sort of way.

If math felt that uncomfortable as scum she wouldn't be pushing this hard I think.

[Infinity 324]

0_0

[Infinity 324]

*takes out a jackknife and trades it with jarjar's stomach*

[Infinity 324]

I'm not scumreading anyone for disagreeing w/ me. I'm scumreading people for having garbage reads that they shouldn't have.

So you're scumreading people for strongly disagreeing with you?

No. And as I said, I'm just pointing out scumminess where I see it.

My reads are generally good. Therefore when someone attacks my scumreads, I give them townie points. When they attack my townreads, they get scumpoints.

Yes obviously town can have bad reads. One of the points of the game is figuring out if those people are scum or bad town.

But you haven't done any of that so far, and when you use whose reads agree with yours as your main scumhunting tool, it seems weak at best to me.

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity

I don't know what else I can say 2 u that I haven't. I think you're probably town so I don't really want to continue arguing w/ you about my playstyle except to say I've been incredibly successful with it in all my previous games.

If you have anything specific you'd like to talk to me about then I'm game.

Somehow I doubt that.

At least give some depth to your reads ok?

[Infinity 324]

The post directly above that comment; are you really that dense?

Ima side with dunn here

What's dense is the comment dunn was referencing

[Infinity 324]

The post directly above that comment; are you really that dense?

Ima side with dunn here

What's dense is the comment dunn was referencing

I can see what is being said; scum would try to coordinate who gets wagoned.

Oh I thought you were talking about where dunn quoted the ira post

I disagree that scum would state their plans for coordinating the wagon in-thread, though. That would be a whole new level of stupid.

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

This is a scummy post by Zach by the way

VOTE: Zachstral

why

[Infinity 324]

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

Looks like whiteknighting.

why??

I mean, I'm far from a townread on zach

But I think that's a bit of a stretch

[Infinity 324]

he [Zachstralkita]

contributing

[Infinity 324]

I don't take a whole lot of issue with Something_Smart at all, actually.

Why is this phrased in such a way to imply that you would be expected to take issue with me?

because jarjar was like " ya my reads are good" and then he voted you

Do you disagree w/ what I'm saying or just dont think it makes S_S look scummy?


To recap:

I ask him why he posted reads that weren't really that serious and he responds

Why mention it initially? I got some interesting reactions.

Like how is that not him saying that he did it as a reaction test. He even re-asked the question he was responding to.

This sentence reads: "The reason I didn't mention it initially is because I got some interesting reactions."

Like how is that not a direct contradiction when he later says this?

I never said it was a reaction test.

Every single thing anyone says produces reactions; doesn't mean everything is a reaction test.

not to mention misdirection since he's now implying I'M the one who brought up the reaction test.

It looks like you're trying here, but this is once again, extraordinarily shallow.

You're implying here that scum would be careless enough to directly contradict themselves and town wouldn't, first of all, which doesn't seem true to me.

I'll let smart explain his side of it, but I don't think it's a contradiction at all tbh.

[Infinity 324]

How about creature

[Infinity 324]

quote="In post 370, Infinity 324"]You're implying here that scum would be careless enough to directly contradict themselves and town wouldn't, first of all, which doesn't seem true to me.

Whether or not it seems true to you has no bearing on whether or not it is true.[/quote]

Excuse me?

Again, this is behavior that will come from scum or bad-town.

"Bad" (or simply forgetful) town or really bad scum.

How incompetent would you have to be as scum to be careless enough to do the simplest thing that many people would see as scummy? Don't you think that scum would have motivation to be careful about that kind of stuff?

Of course there's wine involved but ultimately it's NAI.

Theory discussion aside, I don't think you're looking deep enough into people's play. You point out the contradiction, but you don't examine whether it's likely that scum!smart would let that happen.

So basically you're saying that it isn't a contradiction but even it was, it wouldn't be scummy?

Correct.

[Infinity 324]

How about creature

what about him

He could be a good target for voting

holy shit.
first off, what he obviously meant there was you stating town couldnt do it. no, town can contradict themselves, they are human and their opinions CAN change over time. emphasis on can, the point you are bringing is merely moot as it can be done by careless scum and careless town alike. scumtry to be townread aswell, they dont just sit there and do scummy things, they watch out for it too. it doesnt indicate either alignment and it isnt writing it off as anything. its just something that can kickstart a discussion from there. By itself, scummy it might be, but not enough to convict.
Secondly, if there is a good explanation behind anything then we need to hear it before makinh conclusions about what is scummy or not.

thats all. gnight

I like you.

This makes me want to townread you but that would be dumb. So I won't.

[Infinity 324]

Putting aside the argument about whether or not those things are AI, they are objectively shallow reasoning. Even for d1, the game is 16 pages. You can come up with better reasons than that, even if it's just "is this contradiction/lurking/bad reads/shitposting scummy in this particular case"

[Infinity 324]

Can I scumread Dong for saying that my reads are bad and then asking me what my reads are or is that shallow too?

You should at least consider the scum motivation for doing something. Chances are, if something doesn't benefit scum, scum won't do it.

@the people who've played with JarJar before: does he usually believe his reads are amazing and read people based on how they agree with them, refuse to discuss with townreads, and/or scumread people for semantics reasons?

Not as far as I can remember

[Infinity 324]

@smart How does saying that you don't take issue with someone look like a WK? That's my question, obvious it's best to point something out of it does look like WKing.

[Infinity 324]

Also, why ask ira if he has a history of correctly reading me? Is that necessary to have a townread on someone?

[Infinity 324]

Ok that first part is a semantics thug and I'll let zach respond to it

For the second part, gotcha. I haven't played with ira before I believe, though I have spectated at least 2 games he was in.

[Infinity 324]

What the fuck is going on

Zach, why did you selfvote

[Infinity 324]

scum have an encryptor

What makes you say that eeeeeeehhh...?

Don't know why you'd assume they don't have one yourself

Now this is interesting

Less than 50% of mini normals contain a mafia encryptor

[Infinity 324]

Oh yeah that ^

PEdit: I'm pretty sure games with encryptors don't mention anything in the rules wrt daytalk

[Infinity 324]

Lol

Idk why scum would say there's an encryptor and not give any reason, nor do I think it would have any effect

[Infinity 324]

Mathblade, give me one case in which it would help scum to tell town there is an encryptor, or else I will dismiss it as more nonsense.

[Infinity 324]

Because it formulated how reads would be formed. If town thinks there is an encyptor when their isn't faulty reads happen.

E.g. Player X wouldn't say that. They have daychat.

Eh ok

occam's razor though

[Infinity 324]

Simplest case is it's just dunn being dunn imo

[Infinity 324]

why is there talk of an encryptor...

No idea

Why is your vote on zachstralkita

[Infinity 324]

Yeah creature's vote there was pretty opportunistic tbh

And he's still done nothing town

[Infinity 324]

Smart, if you're trying to get a read on me based off posts like that, you overthinking it.

Mathblade still town. They're clearly trying to gamesolve imo

[Infinity 324]

I don't think dunnsolving ever worked out for anyone tbh

Your mind is an unsolvable riddle

Take that how you will

PEdit: @dunn

[Infinity 324]

Also I'm p sure scum have motivation not to make themselves look like idiots

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but scum tend to be more self-aware. Town don't usually give a shit about how they come off

Scum usually do, unless they have "stral" in their name

[Infinity 324]

you know infinity my boy i am the original stral, Dunn is but a secondary

he merely adopted the -stral. i was born into it. MOLDED BY IT.

Good for you.

[Infinity 324]

Has JarJar talked? Like as in anything of significance?

How much of the game have you read

Let's lynch creature

[Infinity 324]

infinity three two four

wanna be power town?

[x] yes
[] no
[x] maybe
[x] applesauce

[Infinity 324]

that was the answer u gave last time

and u got lynched and lost the game

r u sure u want to answer that way again

Last time, the question was typed by the member of the mafia

I think that's what cursed it

[Infinity 324]

That's the most constructive thing you have to add?

[Infinity 324]

I've played in at least one game with an encryptor that didn't mention anything about daytalk in the rules

*shrug*

[Infinity 324]

Only thing it says about daytalk in normal game rules: "Mafia may have daytalk without an Encryptor as long as it is announced in the game's rules beforehand.
"

[Infinity 324]

Also I'm p sure scum have motivation not to make themselves look like idiots

I know, seems like Mathblade is town-aligned.

Haha

Says the guy who intentionally tries to look dumb as scum

Whether scum not having natural daytalk is mentioned or not, there can always be an encryptor or not. I really don't know why dunn said there was

[Infinity 324]

If you think Zach selfvoting is town, take a look at Micro 601, RC did basically the same thing.

Why are you comparing zach to RC, RC is not a standard scum player.

Not saying zach is, but still

I think the selfvote is NAI

Since if there wasn't an encryptor, maybe inspectorscout would say there is no daytalk.

I actually think it's more likely he'd say nothing about it if there was an encryptor

[Infinity 324]

Gamma is being gamma

[Infinity 324]

What's your read on creature

[Infinity 324]

It went from scum gambit to null for who

[Infinity 324]

And you didn't answer my question.

[Infinity 324]

Creature never said it was null :/

But if you want to vote him, I'm good with that

He at least looks like he's trying to gamesolve as town, this game he's doing nothing

[Infinity 324]

Oh, missed that.

The thing is, it wasn't a joke, it was a reaction test.

But I do agree that the thought process there feels off.

[Infinity 324]

What seems to be the problem

[Infinity 324]

I'm curious what your reads are

Especially on creature

[Infinity 324]

Still think gamma is being gamma

[Infinity 324]

It's noob town awkward imo

[Infinity 324]

Because he's just saying what he thinks and not trying to look good

[Infinity 324]

Scum's goal is not to do random weird shit, it's to look town.

[Infinity 324]

Noob scum tend to do random, weird shit even less than some more experienced scum

I don't see how any scum would look at those posts, think "hmm, this looks good," and click submit

[Infinity 324]

Lol unless nadr is psychic just no

[Infinity 324]

Lol

[Infinity 324]

Ok

[Infinity 324]

@dong I can see what you're saying that nadr's posts don't seem to lead anywhere, but that is often the case with noob town. They scumhunt in a way they think helps, regardless of what other people think or whether it actually helps or not. Scum, even noob scum like to make sure their actions look good and productive from the outside. Nadr is town.

I'm thinking the nadr wagon could be a CW to creature. Or zach for that matter, zach seems a little off this game to me. Dunn would be the most likely suspect for that, and maybe dong since he seems like a good player but hasn't done a lot that can't be faked by scum. I want to say dunn's random vote-hopping is alignment indicative, but I really don't think it is.

Ira could be buddying me but other than that I still don't know how to read him.

If creature was town scum would be all over his lynch. Let's get him.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah and you agree with all my reads too

[Infinity 324]

Ok but quite a few of them

[Infinity 324]

Possible.

Have some of your reads (e.g. nadr and creature) been influenced by mine or did you just happen to have the same opinion as me?

[Infinity 324]

I don't remember what you said about Creature.

I've been scumreading him since page 8

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: manuel

[Infinity 324]

That's an odd readslist

[Infinity 324]

^^

[Infinity 324]

This has become weird.

VOTE: Dunnstral
Hi

Just felt like getting a reaction out of him since we have nothing to work on.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral

Tbh I felt like that was a fair reaction.

Transcend's BS'd reads of Mini 1841 v 1.1

{Gamma Emerald}

{Infinity 324, Zachstralkita}

{xNadrojx, Dunnstral, MathBlade, Something_Smart}

{JarJarDrinks, iraonavp, Dongempire}

{AlpacaAlpaca}

{}

{Creature}

VOTE: Creature

Is where I'm at right now.

Alpaca's tunnel doesn't feel right on me, I get it that I owned him but his tunnel on me feels flat and I think he kept the charade going on for a bit too long.

Math and Dunn might be TVT but I put both of them in the third tier because of uncertainty

Jordan had a towny opening but his progression through the game has been meh.

SS is a tonal townread and I had the same reads as him at one point.

I liked Infinity's catch up.

Can you like, explain Gamma and Creature, I don't reallu understand why are they your top townreads and scumreads respectively

serious question; what do you plan to accomplish with that vote?

You know math isn't going to get the run-up

Why wouldn't I get the run up? Everyone should be poked and prodded. No one is immune.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain.

This is more than a stretch, beyond a reach, this is annoying me

You know it isn't. Pre determining which players will and won't be wagoned is scummy as fuck.

I like this post.

Spoiler: Reasoning

Acrually pursuing a topic rather than ignoring it, feel that scum would like to drop a topic if no one follows

[Infinity 324]

i dont know how you would tr me.

The reads are based on one quick read through and gut right now.
For your slot the way you argued with jarjar feels townie. You dont have to be useful to be a townread. You have to be useful to have an influence in the votes.

@Infinity: Whats so odd about them? Which ones exactly?

Transcend as null, mathblade as top town, and zach as top scum I find odd.

[Infinity 324]

I'll accept that

VOTE: creature

[Infinity 324]

Okay, let's vote Creature now, everyone!

[Infinity 324]

Why is math scum

[Infinity 324]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

classic lynchbait right there

But seriously mathblade looks like their usual tryhard town self

[Infinity 324]

[p]787[/p] is horrendous. both quotes from mathblade in the pyramid. awful.

Oh I missed this somehow

Yeah I agree it's bad but I disagree it's scummy. Like you were in wake's game, math can be dumb

Also what's this talk of a vig

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

Explain ira and ss reads? I'm not sure about those 2.

[Infinity 324]

Why should I townread you zach, apart from the fact that scum is pushing you

[Infinity 324]

You should bus Dunnstral.

Yeah this is honestly a scumclaim.

VOTE: Creature

How?

I wouldn't say scumclaim, but it's a weird progression to go from "these guys could be scum" to that

[Infinity 324]

Why should I townread you zach, apart from the fact that scum is pushing you

? I have no need for your townread.

Ok it just seemed like you were claiming to be obvtown for some reason

And I'd be curious about that

[Infinity 324]

Look my sig.

except I think it is in this case

[Infinity 324]

Jarjar why don't you vote creature

[Infinity 324]

Just cause semantics is she doesn't mean everyone who uses semantics is scum

[Infinity 324]

Why nadr and creature together? Don't you think the scum would be pushing a different wagon then?

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, I don't really have an answer. Transcend would come the closest I think. If I wasn't so unsure about their alignments, I'd say dong or s_s

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, I don't really have an answer. Transcend would come the closest I think. If I wasn't so unsure about their alignments, I'd say dong or s_s

Was that in response to my prompt?

Yes

[Infinity 324]

Explain ira and ss reads? I'm not sure about those 2.

Can you answer this please?

I have too many nullreads tbh

[Infinity 324]

I'm pretty sure I've explained myself enough

[Infinity 324]

Explain ira and ss reads? I'm not sure about those 2.

Can you answer this please?

I have too many nullreads tbh

Dong, this is for you

It better be worth the wait jarjar

[Infinity 324]

Gamma tries harder to look town as scum. The reaction test argument is really shallow: sometimes I reaction test a lot, sometimes I don't and that doesn't really say anything about my alignment. Not having a specific reaction in mind is par for the course for him; scum!gamma wouldn't even bother with that shit. Scum!gamma would just fluff fluff theory theory and vote someone based off one post the whole day.
(see micro 643)

[Infinity 324]

I wonder if dunn is purposefully overplaying his

{gamma}
{transcend, mathblade, manuel, nadr}
{s_s}
{dong, ira, jarjar}
{dunn, zach}
{creature}

[Infinity 324]

Why

[Infinity 324]

That was supposed to say "his playstyle"

Like you're vote hopping a very large amount even for you

[Infinity 324]

Hmm

smart should be higher in my reads. He's trying to scumhunt without looking like he's trying to scumhunt

[Infinity 324]

I want to say jarjar's just scum for his shallowness but I don't think that's a scumtell, I remember him using good reasoning in the scum game I read of his. So ehhh

[Infinity 324]

Your read on jarjar is based on meta too though 0_0

[Infinity 324]

I wouldn't scumread jarjar if not for meta; meta is the only thing that gives me doubt cause he's playing differently from his town games but I don't think he's playing similarly to that scum game either

[Infinity 324]

Why

I'm going to assume that that is directed at my Dongempire vote.
He is less towny than the rest,via PoE, therefore although I don't fully scum read him, I will not oppose a vote on him, so there's my vote

But he doesn't have a wagon on him...

Do you have any other stronger scumreads?

[Infinity 324]

But Trans doesn't troll like this as scum.
Like really I don't think Trans would ever encourage people to vote him and lead the town on if he was scum.
From what I've seen of him that's not his scum play.
UNVOTE:

With nothing to stop the mafia overnight, mafia wins!

Congratulations to the mafia team of

Transcend, Vedith, light_ganski

One of probably 10,000 ways that using meta has fucked someone over.

I don't think I've used meta excessively this game

I used it on jarjar kinda (though my read on him wouldn't be different if I didn't use meta), mathblade and you. That's it

[Infinity 324]

Your read on jarjar is based on meta too though 0_0

it has a hint of meta because i think he's had strong town games both times I played with him, and this time it's just not there.

now, him not having a strong game could be due to several things, but overall i just don't think his progression through this game has been genuine.

What progression?

For me I don't see much from jarjar I can use to get a read off of him. My meta argument was basically a counter to your meta argument

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

Infinity 324, do you think there's another reason someone would list someone good at scum as their top townreads D1 other than buddying?

Idek if transcend has played with dunn/zach scum

Let him answer

[Infinity 324]

jarjar, dong, and dunn all seem like possible scumbuddies with creature. Dunn is the most obvious since creature suspected Dunn for a while but didn't vote him, but it seems a bit obvious. My gut would say dong is the most likely of these because iirc he didn't talk about creature very much before he voted him. It's hard to tell with jarjar whether he hasn't voted creature yet because he wants to give reads and stuff first or because he just wants to delay but he's a possibility as well.

I'm confident guys. D1 scum flip let's do it.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity 324, do you think there's another reason someone would list someone good at scum as their top townreads D1 other than buddying?

Idek if transcend has played with dunn/zach scum

Let him answer

no

i skimmed a scum!zach game but eh

Creature is right in this case, they're both quite good scum players and you should be paranoid

There's a good possibility he's bussing at least one of them as he goes down

[Infinity 324]

Transcend
I think you are town but this is making me not like this wagon
stop

So care to explain your thoughts here?
You think he is town but because of something he said you dont like the wagon you and Transcend are on?
Logic would suggest you think the comment was scummy.
Logic would suggest you want to reconsider your read and unvote as Creature is at L-1.

I don't find the comment scummy; I find it towny as scum wouldn't make their chosen wagon look like shit like that. My problem is it makes me think there may be insufficient evidence.

This is a legit town thought process but may not make sense to people on the outside

I feel like those types of comments almost always come from town

[Infinity 324]

@s_s Let's talk about gamma. I forget why exactly you scumread him, but there is little doubt in my mind that he's town. He's playing very similarly to his town game, specifically he doesn't give a flying fuck about looking town.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: dunnstral

[Infinity 324]

O...k

[Infinity 324]

I don't think town!dunn goes "well we're 5 days into d1 and we need to hear more from a slot I scumread, let's end the day"

But scum!dunn would do that 100%

[Infinity 324]

Why is jarjar scum

[Infinity 324]

Yeah I still need to respond to s_s's points about gamma. But there's no doubt in my mind that he's town here, and I think you guys should trust me on that.

[Infinity 324]

shut up manuel
jar is scum because his reads are shit and he is a ego driven c word

Those thing are not scummy

I think jarjar could come up with a better readslist than that as scum

[Infinity 324]

then why does he come with bs reads as town!jar

Because he's being dumb

[Infinity 324]

Bleh mathblade are you mini 1800ing me?

Who are x and y

[Infinity 324]

Bleh mathblade are you mini 1800ing me?

Who are x and y

rolefishing spotted

Nice work detective

Not like math can refuse to answer or anything

[Infinity 324]

I don't see how revealing exactly the amount you did helps town

But fine

[Infinity 324]

Quit fishing. You be scum with Infinity.

VOTE: Infinity324

Rolefishing accusations are usually dumb. If the info is so valuable, the townie can just not reveal it, and if scum did decide to rolefish, they probably wouldn't do it so blatantly...

[Infinity 324]

Because what math is saying doesn't help anyone if we don't know who they are

[Infinity 324]

Anyway it's a weird way to crumb, I'm trying to think about whether scum!math would do this

[Infinity 324]

Ok then

[Infinity 324]

STOP FUCKING CLAIMING

Uhhhhhhh, hi, morning guys.

Transcend what the hell were you doing. If you're Town can you at least try not to be antitown before you get lynched?

This is a scum claim honestly.

Jordan is day 4
Day 2 is Gamma
Day 3 is Infinity

Are you sure you're not mistaking his horrendous play for scummy play? Gamma, that is.

Well i just played a game with town!Gamma i am pretty sure he is playing different this game and Infinity defending him on meta is why i read him scum as well.

I've played with town!gamma twice and read a scum game of his, he's town. Also would be a townread for me without meta.

Manuel was a possible kill, but transcend was more likely just on the basis of being a universal townread and possible vig crumbs? (Which were dumb of me to bring attention to so glad that's not accurate). Manuel being stuck in a tunnel on gamma is no doubt helpful for scum so I don't think he'd be killed n1 unless gamma is somehow scum.

But uh...zach isn't confirmed town. I would like it to just work out based on my reads, but that seems unlikely at this point...so zach why did you target transcend? Not

sure

that BP and JK work out in this game. Ughh this is tough

Maybe manuel was killed and one of his other top scumreads was accurate...at this point transcend kill seems the most likely but that means at least some of his scumreads were right and I don't know which ones...so idk who to vote

[Infinity 324]

Ok

[Infinity 324]

Pretty sure zach was town just cause he wouldn't know there was no doc/jk when he claimed

Who do you think was shot trans

[Infinity 324]

Just cause all the bullshit is happening doesn't mean you're off the hook, scumstral

[Infinity 324]

uh????

me?????????

There was a BP claim

Anyway I need to do some ISOs cause my reads were pretty shit no matter which way you slice it

[Infinity 324]

Transcend!scum is a possibility

Dunn pushing him makes me want to say he's town though

I will say that if transcend was scum he'd probably be the one to make the kill

My head hurts

[Infinity 324]

@manuel If you aren't gonna be killed tonight why would you have been killed last night?

The gamma read is simple. He's doing random shit without concern to how it looks imo.

@transcend Why didn't you? Wouldn't the most townread player want to do the kill?

[Infinity 324]

I want everyone to say what they think happened last night and what they think it means

[Infinity 324]

Trans that post is NAI and you know it

[Infinity 324]

I honestly don't get why nadr is scum

I'm willing to accept that I might be wrong though. What's your argument

[Infinity 324]

Why can't Mafia goon claim BP?

Why is dunn town?

[Infinity 324]

Manuel didn't slip it, if you believe that he thought he could've been targeted then he has to be town

Which is probably true anyway but yeah

[Infinity 324]

Ok. I see how some of those things can be construed as LAMOST (though I'd like 993 and 1020 o be explain) but I can also see how they could easily be genuine town feelings and thoughts, especially for gamma who tends to overreact to stuff imo. Here are the posts where gamma doesn't seem concerned at all with how he's perceived, but don't seem to have much in any scum motivation behind them.

not a fan of mathblades page 6

- Voting Dunn is terrible.
- as is townreading Gamma
- Defending transcend AND creature! WTF?

Do you have me as null or scum?

Could easily be construed as defensiveness but not something that scum benefits from posting

I can tell you with certainty you're wrong on one of three of those, and that one is me

So you are saying S_S is scum, as Math is right about him and Dunn?

I can tell you with certainty you're wrong on one of three of those, and that one is me

So you are saying S_S is scum, as Math is right about him and Dunn?

This looks like it was leading somewhere; how would you have followed this up if he had responded yes?

I would have slapped a vote on him.

Random reaction test that doesn't benefit scum, but could hurt him because it looks weird

I'm not getting any scumreads. Just a whole lotta bullshit.

Has JarJar talked? Like as in anything of significance?

How much of the game have you read

Let's lynch creature

Willing to join this wagon. Definitely looks like Micro 647.
VOTE: Creature

Meh I think Creature feels a bit lynchbaity.

Has JarJar talked? Like as in anything of significance?

How much of the game have you read

Let's lynch creature

Willing to join this wagon. Definitely looks like Micro 647.
VOTE: Creature

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

These 2 can go together right?

Scum aren't this oblivious to thing that can make them look bad usually

I have a little time now and read the game properly, Transcend, Infinity324, iraonavp, and MathBlade are Town,

Slight suspicion on AlpacaAlpaca and JarJar.

And,
VOTE: Zachstralkita for now.

and votes Zach, the leading bw????

VOTE: XnadrojX

yeah i've had bad feelings about this slot all game.

Agreed,

so

agreed.
VOTE: XnadrojX

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

HAHAHA you fuck. This dude threw shade at Transcend, didn't vote him, and then voted me for following Transcend and calling him out on his actions. This is scum.
VOTE: Dunnstral

your feud is tvt

cease it

I'm feeling this way too. Dunn's logic is justified.
VOTE: XnadrojX

Vote hopping which is a scumtell for some but serves no purpose for a scum!gamma

Yeah ISOing Creature I see too much meta crap. Feels like he's just trying to make excuse reads.

After voting and unvoiting creature this is weird as hell but it would've been easy to go back to his earlier reason

I knew infinity was scum. I had a feeling.

VOTE: Infinity324

What is meant by this?

Not some kind of secret message. Shouldn't be too hard to understand

I'm saying infinity is the bad guy

HRRRMMM
I'll go with you for now.
VOTE: Infinity 324
AND WE AREN'T DONE MANUEL

VOTE: Transcend
I knew it

Two people(Dunnstral and Zachstralkita) have both made serious allegations against two other people(Infinity324 and Transcend, respectively). I want arguments from both sides why your suspect is the better lynch.

I don't recall SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS in play. Don't ask me to push your counter wagon

I'M NOT THE ONE BEING WAGONED, IT'S INFINITY.
However, since you decided to switch, I guess I will too.
VOTE: Transcend
inb4 Manuel/MathBlade gets on my case for switching.

Yeah if scum!gamma was scared about being called out he just wouldn't do it

It'd be so easy to come up with a reason of his own but he doesn't because he doesn't care about how he looks

Reads:
Manuel is town now unless a vig kill pops up
Zach, Dunn, ira, Transcend town
Infinity, Math, Dong null
xNadr, JarJar scum
VOTE: xNadrojx
Most confident about this flipping scum

And more switching

I'm not huge on LAMIST as a tell anyway, but LAMISS (look at me I'm so scum) is generally a strong towntell for me. And it seems like gamma's done quite a bit of both

But all the posts of gamma's you take issue with seem to be "you did this thing that doesn't make sense from town POV, you must be scum" when really he just did something weird and it's not scum-motivated at all. Just try to think about what gamma's objective is from a scum perspective in making those posts.

You should just tell me if you're not willing to change your mind though, since if you're not there's no point in having this discussion. I made up my mind, I think gamma's town, I probably won't change that opinion. I've had this discussion with other people before that were sure gamma was scum and I turned out to be right. (Remember zyf, gamma?)

[Infinity 324]

LOL

[Infinity 324]

Look at me I'm so town, and a type of LAMIST

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity: You are basically saying the amount of scumtells he has in his Iso is a towntell.
I disagree on the Misrep on Zach. He was throwing shade on Zach before that as well and he was pressured at that point.
A wrong answer could have put even more pressure on Zach.

That's a very shallow interpretation of my post. I'm saying that scum!gamma wouldn't continuously do things that other people would likely perceive as scummy, if they have no specific benefit to him. "Scumtells", in my opinion, are relative and depend on the situation, but not everyone sees them that way. Therefore it's likely that someone would've called out gamma for votehopping, even though in this case it's unlikely that votehopping would help scum!gamma.

With the misrep reaction test, that's fair, but I don't think scum!gamma would've expected town!zach to answer wrong. Though you're right that there is a possibility scum!gamma used that to try to get an excuse to push zach more, I think it's more likely that town!gamma was just trying something random in the hopes it lead somewhere.

[Infinity 324]

What happened to making arguments?

I'm good with lynching jarjar, but idk why he's more likely than nadr. Or mathblade for that matter.

[Infinity 324]

I townread all 3 of those people, but transcend was probably shot so something's gotta give

[Infinity 324]

If he flips town lynch his top scumread without fail. Important. I will not be alive.

following that lynch inside Dunnstral/iraonavp

VOTE: Transcend

Please do not disparage my judgement. From what I have reasoned out, we flip Transcend scum here.

If not, then we gain information.

[Infinity 324]

Good question. That brings me to the topic: why are you voting me exactly?

[Infinity 324]

Tomorrow I will do some srs gamesolving

[Infinity 324]

It reeks of either not wanting to lynch JarJar or knowing JarJar is town. Feels wrong.

Lol

Have you noticed that not a single person has given an argument for why we should be lynching jarjar right now besides "transcend was probably shot and jar was one of his scumreads", despite me asking for it repeatedly?

Notice how I said I'm perfectly fine with lynching jarjar, if anyone would give a good argument for why we're lynching him over you, nadr, or transcend for that matter.

I'm gonna have to figure shit out myself, since "making arguments" and "working things out as a town" don't seem to be concepts you guys understand.

[Infinity 324]

You're not confirmed town by any means...

I have to check over some of your scum games again

[Infinity 324]

It's possible dunn is town and my read on him is colored by anger at his stupidity.

[Infinity 324]

Why mouthblade

[Infinity 324]

1)They is my pronoun please.
2) You can claim whatever it doesn't make it true.
3) My post was a VCA not an analysis of a given player.

I work in fucking IT and so when the internet has severe problems my life becomes pretty shitty.

Accusing RL issues of being scum is literally shit.

I don't get 2 or 3 or how trans was accusing you of being scum because of RL

[Infinity 324]

I think his case is you were being dumb d1 + he thinks he was shot

[Infinity 324]

Why is it annoying you

[Infinity 324]

Ok this is what I got.

I re-ISOd jarjar, nadr, and math, and they all still look town to me.
Jarjar definitely seems different from normal, but I don't think it's scum different. I don't see the scum motivation for him just consistently spewing out terrible arguments when most people here have played with him before. Like 365 is the type of argument I see from town a lot, but if jar was self-conscious about it like scum usually are I don't think he'd think it looks good.
I looked at math in mini 1800 again, and I became less confident in my townread there. Though they seemed to be a little bit more tryhard here, their posting style which I remember being similar to how they play as town also seems to be similar to how they play as scum. I don't think scum would just come out and say they're conftown though, so that's what it is.
nadr is still hard to see as scum for me even though he hasn't posted much. I can feel the genuine towny awkwardness from him, and the random reaction vote on dunnstral just to give one example is something I rarely see from scum. Random weird shit is almost always town imo.

It's hard to imagine manuel getting shot last night unless scumteam is 2 of {nadr, s_s, gamma}, or if scumteam wanted to frame gamma I suppose. The possibility of someone being framed here complicates things but n1 kills are rarely WIFOM.

I think transcend should be our lynch. He had quite a strong entrance as scum in dunn's mini, so the reason I townread him earlier is weaker I guess. I think his play today could easily be scum given up. Though I ignored the idea that transcend was scumtrolling at the beginning of today because of who it was coming from, I actually think that's a reasonable possibility. But most of all, I can't accept that 2-3 of my townreads from d1 were wrong.

If I'm wrong, I promise I will vote jarjar, mathblade, and nadr until they're dead.

VOTE: transcend

[Infinity 324]

Sorry didn't realize it was L-1

But at least hammerstral is already voting

[Infinity 324]

Hammering 5 days into d1 I would consider dumb, yes

[Infinity 324]

Get over yourself and vote transcend

[Infinity 324]

So what

I hate when people hammer early especially when we need to hear from someone

Are you just refusing to bus transcend at this point?

[Infinity 324]

Lolwine

[Infinity 324]

Ok now he's just towntrolling

[Infinity 324]

<3 u transcend I promise I'll avenge you

[Infinity 324]

Did you know that you're hilarious

[Infinity 324]

He's not trolling about that, he was at L-2 then I voted, zach unvoted, gamma voted, then he selfhammered

[Infinity 324]

I don't even care that we just quicklynched town and 2-3 of my townreads were wrong

I love this game

[Infinity 324]

quicklynched town

So why troll instead of trying to stop the hammer? If you were town you wouldn't be trolling.

Infinity is scum for sure.

He was already hammered lol

[Infinity 324]

He's not trolling about that, he was at L-2 then I voted, zach unvoted, gamma voted, then he selfhammered

[Infinity 324]

Well apparently I can't count nor scumhunt for shit but that's ok

VOTE: jarjar

[Infinity 324]

Like transcend (may his soul rest in peace) said, mini 1796 had a BP and a JK in it

[Infinity 324]

^ and that

[Infinity 324]

Why do you think transcend was shot?

[Infinity 324]

If anyone wants to explain why they think I'm scum then go ahead and I'll defend myself the best I can.

If you guys are just gonna lazily speedlynch town for a 3rd straight day then just lemme know so I don't have to waste my time.

I'd be willing to hear your side, but you need to come up with a theory about why there was no kill n1. Manuel was not as widely townread as transcend and was stuck in a tunnel on gamma who is probably town. (If you think gamma is scum, I'd be willing to have that discussion too...)

[Infinity 324]

I'd be willing to hear your side, but you need to come up with a theory about why there was no kill n1.

Huh? What does there being no kill have anything to do with my alignment? Are you just talking about stuff randomly?

Stop playing dumb. There was no kill n1, and transcend was protected. It seems likely transcend was killed, and he had to have been killed for a reasons. Scum don't WIFOM n1 kills.

[Infinity 324]

I have reason to believe this is mafia.
VOTE: Infinity 324

I think I might know what this is about

[Infinity 324]

I'd be willing to hear your side, but you need to come up with a theory about why there was no kill n1.

Huh? What does there being no kill have anything to do with my alignment? Are you just talking about stuff randomly?

Stop playing dumb. There was no kill n1, and transcend was protected. It seems likely transcend was killed, and he had to have been killed for a reasons. Scum don't WIFOM n1 kills.

Playing dumb?

Are you saying that the fact that scum likely tried to shoot trans N1 has something to do w/ my alignment? Trans didn't really start scumreading me hard until day 2. On Day 1 I was just one of his MANY scumreads.

So again I ask: What does this have to do with MY alignment?

Transcend had 3 scumreads on d1 as of 978: you, creature, and nadr. Creature flipped town, so we're starting with you.

[Infinity 324]

I have reason to believe this is mafia.
VOTE: Infinity 324

I think I might know what this is about

Okay, it looks like Gamma Emerald is definitely town-aligned then even if you're scum-aligned.

Like we didn't know that already

[Infinity 324]

Gamma you better claim your information on me, I'm not scum lol

[Infinity 324]

If gamma wants me to claim I'll claim

I just want to make sure he actually has info cause if he was just reaction testing or something and I claimed I would feel stupid

[Infinity 324]

But it's true I should claim before gamma outs his info

[Infinity 324]

I'm a watcher and I saw Infinity visit Zachstralkita.

Right yeah. I'm an absorber variant, which I assume is the greylisted role for this game. I get to target a player each night, and if that player was targeted by an ability, I get a 1-shot version of it. I'm not going to claim yet whether or not I'm x-shot. So far I've been trying to target players likely to be night killed so I can get vig shots. I targeted s_s n1 and got nothing, and I got a 1-shot vig for targeting zach last night.

It's weird though that gamma didn't see anyone else targeting zach. Means scum must have a ninja. I suppose it's not unusual when there's a full watcher in the game though, plus my role which can potentially get more.

Speaking of which, I'm thinking, since watcher is such a powerful role, that me and gamma can coordinate to get me watcher shots for future nights, if I have more than 2 shots and if you guys believe my claim.