Micro 650 Restart: Mislead 2 (Game Over)

[Infinity 324]

Blade dancer, it might be helpful to read the original thread, it isn't very long and contains useful setup spec.

Certainly not everyone should distrust, since the player is more likely to flip town than scum and if they do, we are fucked. It doesn't give us any more information than we would have otherwise, and then 1-2 players end up having to guess the whole

The reason why we should try to start with scum's segment is that it makes it a lot easier for us down the line if we only have to guess 1 of the scum as opposed to 2. Even though I was scum last game, I think the plan of letting everyone choose whether to trust or distrust or flee, but limiting the amount of people who distrust and flee, might be a good idea for d1. Then on d2, or whenever we can safely eliminate people from the scumpool, we do that. Each player then chooses 1-2 of the remaining scumteams (depending on whether they have their joker left) without overlapping. If one of those scumteams is the correct scumteam, that player will survive and town will win.

(At first I thought I could trick town into letting them do what they want and using a lot of distrusts, but then I realized nachmamma is in the game who is a really good setup speccer I believe so it was best for me to propose the most pro-town strategies I could think of).

[Infinity 324]

Ok cfj removed viewing rights from the old scum thread but I'll see what I can remember. Realeo tell me if I'm missing anything major.

Basically, it was me talking about some setup spec things, and realeo saying he wants to see how the game plays out before making plans. I said that the correct play for town was probably to limit the amount of jokering and distrusting until they got to a point where certain people could be eliminated from the scumpool. Then each person would take 1-2 scumteams (depending on whether they had their joker available), and, if one of those scumteams was the actual scumteam, that player would survive and town would win. I proposed that if scum was about to be chosen, I could push limiting the amount of players that would distrust, while if town was about to be chosen, I could push letting people do whatever they want. I also remember saying that we shouldn't be afraid to scumread each other, since scum can't harm each other as much in this game as they can in normal games. The last thing I said was that it's probably better for me to buddy imperium that scumread them, since tammy says she is usually a universal townread and nachomamma is a very strong player.

[Infinity 324]

I said that the correct play for town was probably to limit the amount of jokering and distrusting until they got to a point where certain people could be eliminated from the scumpool. Then each person would take 1-2 scumteams (depending on whether they had their joker available), and, if one of those scumteams was the actual scumteam, that player would survive and town would win.

(This is the plan I just proposed)

Fixed broken quote tags — callforjudgement

[Infinity 324]

^ non-gambler's fallacy

[Infinity 324]

Why try a townread's segment first? Not even an argument to counter mine?

[Infinity 324]

I'd rather go for scum since it makes the game so much easier from now on if we hit scum.

[Infinity 324]

Sure, It obviously makes it easier if we hit scum, but the odds of hitting scum at first attempt are low.

I'd still rather take the chance. We could easily be wrong about a townread on d1.

[Infinity 324]

Fair enough.

[Infinity 324]

How do you read n_m, out of curiosity?

[Infinity 324]

Actually you don't have to answer that if you don't want to, since he can use that to his advantage if scum.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that could be an approach too.

The issue is just that, especially on d1, the read that people are most confident on isn't necessarily the most accurate.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but the reward is much higher when whe try a scum segment.

[Infinity 324]

42 is probably by scum as well.

Hmm, why

[Infinity 324]

zzz

We need to get this game moving

[Infinity 324]

Because I basically revealed my scum strategy, which would be pretty self-defeating if I were scum

But that statement is drenched in quite a bit of wine.

So I'm not sure what you're looking for.

[Infinity 324]

I think my plan would be more broadly applicable than that.

That it how you want, though.

What do you expect to get out of asking someone why you should townread them on page 3?

[Infinity 324]

Take* it

[Infinity 324]

You're right, I forgot.

VOTE: n_m

[Infinity 324]

Who's your most confident read?

Probably that vedith is town, though that could change

[Infinity 324]

You're right, I forgot.

VOTE: n_m

There we go!
So, RVS vote, or super serial?

RVS, and I didn't like that he talked about the previous game without doing anything relevant to this game.

[Infinity 324]

I can see how the NJAC read might be weak, but how is that scummy per se?

[Infinity 324]

You mean the fact he ignored me when I called him on it?
You're right, how is that scummy?

You tell me.

How is "ignoring" scummy?

Look at my new sig.

[Infinity 324]

No I don't think either is scummy, and I disagree that scum often can't back up the things they say. I rarely say things I can't back up as scum, probably less than as town, and I find that pattern tends to hold true for most people. Scum are more careful about looking good. It's obvious you asked him a question, and from most scum's perspectives, it would be very unlikely for you to simply forget about it. So avoiding answering the question as scum would be incredibly asinine, especially since there's not much else going on in this game so the odds of you forgetting would be very low.

[Infinity 324]

...that's what I've seen saying this entire time lol

[Infinity 324]

I'm thinking 3:3:3 if it's a scumread. Or 3:3 and 2 flee.

[Infinity 324]

I think after we guess 1 scum we should start guessing town. There's no advantage to trying to guess the second scum as quickly as possible, and drawing out the game will help us narrow it down. But guessing the first scum earlier has a few advantages:

-We remove their vote and voice from the game
-We can draw associatives/negative associatives
-Everyone else's chances of being scum go down.

[Infinity 324]

3:3:3 is a good hedge if we think they're scum

If we think they're town we should probably have max 1 person distrust.

Why blade dancer?

[Infinity 324]

Oh ffs

No I don't think either is scummy, and I disagree that scum often can't back up the things they say. I rarely say things I can't back up as scum, probably less than as town, and I find that pattern tends to hold true for most people. Scum are more careful about looking good. It's obvious you asked him a question, and from most scum's perspectives, it would be very unlikely for you to simply forget about it. So avoiding answering the question as scum would be incredibly asinine, especially since there's not much else going on in this game so the odds of you forgetting would be very low.

Hold on... This is different to what you were just pointing to me. You said to look at your signature...

"If something doesn't have scum motivation it's probably not scummy."
So my point was that there could have been scum motivation, you then change it to "Why would scum" argument. That's an instant change on what was being discussed.

No, it's not. Scum motivation isn't there unless you think scum!creature would be stupid enough to think you'd forget about it.

You also said it yourself, there isn't a lot going on, how would he have missed it?

I don't know, but seems more likely than thinking you'd forget about the thing you just asked him.

He also hasn't answered it yet, meaning that he is still trying to avoid it, and you are assisting him with avoiding it.

No, I'm not assisting him with anything. You were the one that asked why no one is pushing creature, and I explained why. Creature still needs to respond.

I'm not sure what games you have been it, but if you actually push scum and not just go "Why?" their fake reads struggle more than not. Even more so this early, scum are making up reasons to have reads (if they provide, of course) it's towns job to find which ones are forced (Oh look, I found one!).

If scum don't think there's enough to back up a read, chances are they won't make a read. You don't have to be a master scumplayer to do that.

Your argument that I wouldn't forget so he wouldn't do it is fucking terrible.
Let me confirm, it's fucking dreadful.

Why?

Tell me, why is he town for you with an in depth answer, please. Because he didn't answer my post? Because he's posting town like? Because he's your scum buddy?

I didn't townread him before now, but the setup spec when no one else is posting looks slightly town to me.

instead of letting him engage with me

I am letting him engage with you. I also want to currently tell you that you're pushing on something that's not scummy at all.

him ignoring my push on him cannot be scum motivated

Unless he's a complete idiot, right. And I don't think he's a complete idiot.

[Infinity 324]

Pretty sure vedith is town, there's no reason for scum!him to push on stupid shit like this so early

[Infinity 324]

No, it's not. Scum motivation isn't there unless you think scum!creature would be stupid enough to think you'd forget about it.

It's not thinking that I would, it's hoping that I would. Big difference.

That doesn't make it any less stupid

Put yourself in scum!creature's position, would you ignore the argument hoping you'd forget about the question you just asked, knowing that you'd probably get called out for it?

You are saying that him town reading someone for no reason apart from asking questions like another game (already dis proven) and him ignoring my post to him, which is extremely hard to miss isn't scummy. You are assisting him here.

If by "assisting" you mean call his actions non-scummy, yes I am doing that.

That's false. As scum you need to play along the same lines as if you were town. Creature knows I would bring up him not making reads, as I've done so in the past.

Yeah and when you're town you make reads out of what's in the thread you don't pull shit out of thin air

Scum don't like to pull shit out of thin air. They like to make their reads based on as much truth as possible. Yes, that's a generalization, but I find it true more often than not.

Because it's fucking awful.

Lol

Your comments indicate that he was town, since you are saying why would scum him do that, that was before his setup talk. So go over that one again?

Scum!creature would not ignore your post. So that means either

a)He missed it as town

or

b) He missed it as scum

Is that so hard to understand?

He would be a complete idiot to engage it on me more as scum, knowing what I'm like. So for you just to say "He's not ignoring you as scum because that would be stupid"

Lol, ignoring it is an open invitation for you to engage him more on it, and it's one more point you can use against him. Nice going, hypothetical stupid scum!creature!

As I said, you are either scum aiming for town cred, or scum trying to defend his buddy. Best thing you could have done is bussed it because I'm not laying off you two.

The thing is, you're so wrapped up in your belief that you're saying that not only am I wrong, but also that

I can't possibly believe what I'm saying as town.

Are you listening to yourself? Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have to be scum.

Tell me, how much experience have you got with me as scum? I've pushed hard as scum before, why not now?
This is just you aiming for both town cred, and try to butter me up.
I'm not biting.

I read quolls, you didn't seem to push on random shit just to look town iirc.

And lol if you think I'm trying to butter you up by calling your push stupid

Can we get more people talking here? I'm tired of going in circles without moving the game forward

At least you can give your reads on everyone else, vedith.

[Infinity 324]

jfc

I'll respond to that tomorrow

tldr It doesn't matter whether creature ignores the post he'll still have to come up with his bullshit explanation later

[Infinity 324]

I'm not entirely jazzed about the infinity/vedith back and forth. I have a better impression of infinity this game than last. I didn't have any real great solid reads that game, but I was leaning towards thinking that infinity's interaction with me was a little odd in that it felt a little plastic. I wasn't completely sold on this because sometimes people do have weird reactions to me early game especially when I interact with them the way I interacted with infinity. (I was being truthful about my thoughts on your town game though!) But something didn't feel quite right and it was something that I planned to continue exploring.

This is one the reads that I needed to shake to get a fresh start on.

But this infinity doesn't feel quite the same as the last one. I liked his bringing out his plans from last game (though I completely accept this is wifom. If he and realeo are not partners again, he's going to want to look town here and him outing his plans before realeo does helps to accomplish that.) He doesn't feel very plastic though; his interactions with vedith feel like they have quite a bit more real emotion behind them. Although I do appreciate that the type of interaction is not the same - he and vedith have played together before so it's entirely possible that they have an established mode of interaction and expectations of each other.

But still he feels more open and less agenda-y than he did in the previous version.

I've liked both sides of the infinity/vedith back and forth a bit, though I empathize with infinity's views more than vedith's and no I don't think that infinity was white knighting creature. I think that creature should actually answer vedith's question about his NJAC read though. I think that vedith is frustrated and he's using a guidebook of proper behavior that he's trying to peg everyone into in reading creature. I don't have meta with any of you so I don't know what you guys are supposed to expect from each other, but I do agree with infinity that most of the time scum don't say they have a read that they literally can't back up with reasoning. Most people can at least make up some plausible bullshit, so that argument doesn't excite me.

Creature does seem to be kind of ignoring Vedith, which is more interesting than the argument that Vedith is actually making. If Creature would expect for Vedith to behave in a certain way as Vedith implies, one would think there would be some interaction. However, I'm reminded of people like snarky snowman who you can ask questions of until your blue in the face and die before you get an answer for literally anything, so I'm not sure if that's the same type of thing going on here.

I do think that Vedith is overstating his scum reads a bit and I never really know what to think when someone on page five goes MY READ ISN'T CHANGING because really? I'm just going to take that not serious especially because the reasoning doesn't feel that strong. Also, I thought spidey sense indicated I was scum? (I was going to tell Vedith that he obviously wasn't bit by a radioactive spider but probably a brown recluse who had begun eating away and his sense, I know I really amuse no one but myself.) Anyway I thought that Vedith's scum read on me might have been because he was going in contrast to what infinity said he was going to do with regards to us last game, but Vedith's frustration with infinity does feel quite real, so kind of want to lean town here too.

I've gotta be a little more cautious with realeo because we both were leaning town on realeo. He does come off a little awkward, but I think that's due to language and maybe english not being his first language (Sorry if it is, but some of your grammatical structures are a bit consistent with non-native speakers.) Anyway when people are deemed awkward due to things that seem language based, I have a tendency to give all kinds of leeway too, so this one is a read I need to take care of. I do appreciate him saying that it was silly to scum read me based on me basically saying I was v/la until today. He does seem to have a bit of a different demeanor this game too, but it's probably nothing that I can really explain further that FEELZ MAN. The only thing that I had cause for concern with him last game was him strong town reading Vedith for really nothing at all. I don't see him trying to force reads this game, and I do like his suspicion on NJAC so that could be coloring me a bit as well.

I really like this post.

It's gotta be either town, or super-tryhard scum, and if it's the latter it'll probably take forever to figure it out. So yeah. It does seem overdone in a sense, but I think it's more of a genuine towny effort sense than scum LAMIST. And anyway, the effort is exactly what we needed to kickstart the game. Actually, I should've made a post like that tbh

[Infinity 324]

Yes, I would... It's less of a chance to get called out of it then to reply with a very scum looking answer. Simply put, he didn't know what to say back to me because it was a lie.

Yeah but again, it doesn't matter when scum!creature has to make up his lie, he'll have to make it up eventually. The

only

time ignoring your question would help is if you forget about it, which imo is an incredibly low chance.

You're actually implying that he is town for it. Lets get that right for a second. You're also trying to divert from him being seen as scum.

I'm not implying he's town for missing your question, that's NAI. Happens as both alignments. He's slightly town for the setup spec.

No, scum want to have reasons to scum/town read someone. Trying to fit it in nicely and not picked up on. Show me your last 5 games where scum based their comments on as much truth as possible, and I'll show you my last 5 games where scum made bullshit reads or pushes.

It's kinda hard to notice when you're not the scum...do you want me to show you my last 5 scum games? Because I heavily avoid making up bullshit as scum. (A good example is my setup spec in the pre-restart version of this game--notice how my original plan was not too far off from what I believed to be the correct plan).

You know I'm right

Lol

Explain to me what experience you have with scum Creature?

Played with him once, doesn't really affect my argument except for the fact that I know he's not a complete moron

How could he have missed it? You said yourself that the game isn't moving, explain how he missed it? YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF HERE.

Missing someone else's point is much more likely than thinking

they'll forget their own point

imo. Maybe creature was scrolling quickly, maybe he was busy, etc etc. But someone forgetting a post that

they

made is essentially a non-consideration.

Scum Creature didn't answer because he didn't know how to answer. Yet you are saying that Scum Creature would know exactly how to answer here... Explain that to me.

Lol, ignoring it is an open invitation for you to engage him more on it, and it's one more point you can use against him. Nice going, hypothetical stupid scum!creature!

This is false and you are giving a bad reason to claim him to be town here.
Ignoring it hopes that something else happens in the thread to distract away with it. You are constantly failing to see that he did not know what to say, but I can understand you not wanting to agree with that since you're scum.

The thing is, you're so wrapped up in your belief that you're saying that not only am I wrong, but also that I can't possibly believe what I'm saying as town. Are you listening to yourself? Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have to be scum.

Town does not say "He's not scum because scum would be all like I'm not givin' reads, shit yo!" - If you were magically town, then you're a fucking moron.
This is why I don't believe you would be saying this as town. It's not the fact you disagree, it's the fact you are defending his case with how Creature scum would act personally, which you have wrong.

I read quolls, you didn't seem to push on random shit just to look town iirc.

And lol if you think I'm trying to butter you up by calling your push stupid

Can we get more people talking here? I'm tired of going in circles without moving the game forward

At least you can give your reads on everyone else, vedith.

It makes me laugh when people go "I read 1 scum game of yours, I know what to expect" - GTFO. I have many games where I play completely different as scum. This could easily be a standard me and Creature are scum game.
You're trying to butter me up by calling me town, not stupid. This is you trying to misrep my comment. Nice try, kiddo!
Yeah this is when scum normally want to change the subject because I won't give up and it draws too much attention to them.

Town
Not_Mafia
Realeo
Imperium
Peptobislawl
NJAC
Blade Dancer

Scum
Infinity
Creature

That's my reads. And it won't be changing.[/quote]

[Infinity 324]

Yes, I would... It's less of a chance to get called out of it then to reply with a very scum looking answer. Simply put, he didn't know what to say back to me because it was a lie.

Yeah but again, it doesn't matter when scum!creature has to make up his lie, he'll have to make it up eventually. The

only

time ignoring your question would help is if you forget about it, which imo is an incredibly low chance.

You're actually implying that he is town for it. Lets get that right for a second. You're also trying to divert from him being seen as scum.

I'm not implying he's town for missing your question, that's NAI. Happens as both alignments. He's slightly town for the setup spec.

No, scum want to have reasons to scum/town read someone. Trying to fit it in nicely and not picked up on. Show me your last 5 games where scum based their comments on as much truth as possible, and I'll show you my last 5 games where scum made bullshit reads or pushes.

It's kinda hard to notice when you're not the scum...do you want me to show you my last 5 scum games? Because I heavily avoid making up bullshit as scum. (A good example is my setup spec in the pre-restart version of this game--notice how my original plan was not too far off from what I believed to be the correct plan).

You know I'm right

Lol

Explain to me what experience you have with scum Creature?

Played with him once, doesn't really affect my argument except for the fact that I know he's not a complete moron

How could he have missed it? You said yourself that the game isn't moving, explain how he missed it? YOU ARE CONTRADICTING YOURSELF HERE.

Missing someone else's point is much more likely than thinking

they'll forget their own point

imo. Maybe creature was scrolling quickly, maybe he was busy, etc etc. But someone forgetting a post that

they

made is essentially a non-consideration.

Scum Creature didn't answer because he didn't know how to answer. Yet you are saying that Scum Creature would know exactly how to answer here... Explain that to me.

The thing is,

he'd have to explain it to you anyway.

I don't get your solution to the problem from scum!creature's perspective because I don't see how creature could possibly think, or even hope that you'd forget about the question you asked him.

You are constantly failing to see that he did not know what to say, but I can understand you not wanting to agree with that since you're scum.

And you are constantly failing to see that it doesn't matter that he didn't know what to say, because he'd have to say it anyway eventually.

Town does not say "He's not scum because scum would be all like I'm not givin' reads, shit yo!"

I said nothing like this. I said that scum would give reads that they could back up. It's seriously not that hard to do that.

It's not the fact you disagree, it's the fact you are defending his case with how Creature scum would act personally, which you have wrong.

All I need to know about creature for my argument is that he's not a fucking imbecile

It makes me laugh when people go "I read 1 scum game of yours, I know what to expect" - GTFO. I have many games where I play completely different as scum. This could easily be a standard me and Creature are scum game.

But my argument wasn't meta-based, you're the one that brought up meta. Your push on me looks town regardless of meta.

You're trying to butter me up by calling me town, not stupid. This is you trying to misrep my comment. Nice try, kiddo!

Yeah but I wouldn't call someone stupid at all if I was trying to butter them up

That's my reads. And it won't be changing.

Nice town play there, keeping page 5 reads for the whole game...

EBWOP

[Infinity 324]

And anyway, the effort is exactly what we needed to kickstart the game.

@Infinity

you think we still in VRS?

No, I just think the game is moving slowly so we can use the activity.

b) Infinity pushing on the strategy bothers me???? Infinity keeps pressing about "there is no argument about attempting town is better, therefore, attempting scum is better." Didn't we solve this in the previous game?

No? I never said there was no argument for trying to attempt town segments, but I still think it's worth the risk to go for a scum segment.

[Infinity 324]

Why try a townread's segment first? Not even an argument to counter mine?

Help me, infini. At one point, I can't catch your thinking process. On the other hand, I can't really conclude you are scum flailing.

I gave an argument for attempting a scum segment

You said we should attempt a town segment without a counterargument

Now I've seen the counterargument, and it makes sense but I disagree. But I never said there wasn't one.

I have a question. Why are you quoting a whole post? What's the intention.

The first post submitted incorrectly

Just look at the second one

Reads on everyone coming in a bit. I really have no idea how to read realeo, since normally I'd townread pushes like this but he did similar things in a game where we were both scum.

[Infinity 324]

Given the fact that the commentary from 169 is actually new (somebody help me cross checkthis) and it's a huge difference from your EBWOP, I am going to conclude that is scum slipping (failing to organize which argument which) but managed to make a last second come back.

VOTE: Infinity

I accidentally hit enter on a post that wasn't done lol

[Infinity 324]

First of all, I'm in Israel so it's 12:40 here.

I repeated the same commentary because I wanted to keep the whole thing in one post. Do you think town wouldn't do that and scum would?

You can even see vedith's words in the remainder of the original post since I hadn't finished that part, so it stayed unquoted.

[Infinity 324]

That stuff is from vedith's post.

[Infinity 324]

Town does not say "He's not scum because scum would be all like I'm not givin' reads, shit yo!" - If you were magically town, then you're a fucking moron.
This is why I don't believe you would be saying this as town. It's not the fact you disagree, it's the fact you are defending his case with how Creature scum would act personally, which you have wrong.

I read quolls, you didn't seem to push on random shit just to look town iirc.

And lol if you think I'm trying to butter you up by calling your push stupid

Can we get more people talking here? I'm tired of going in circles without moving the game forward

At least you can give your reads on everyone else, vedith.

It makes me laugh when people go "I read 1 scum game of yours, I know what to expect" - GTFO. I have many games where I play completely different as scum. This could easily be a standard me and Creature are scum game.
You're trying to butter me up by calling me town, not stupid. This is you trying to misrep my comment. Nice try, kiddo!
Yeah this is when scum normally want to change the subject because I won't give up and it draws too much attention to them.

Town
Not_Mafia
Realeo
Imperium
Peptobislawl
NJAC
Blade Dancer

Scum
Infinity
Creature

That's my reads. And it won't be changing.

[Infinity 324]

Some of my reads are influenced by feelings, it's hard to explain with a reasoning, yet nobody accepts a "it's a feeling"

I accept that reasoning as long as it's not for everything

[Infinity 324]

Lol

[Infinity 324]

Ask creature about me buddying as scum

[Infinity 324]

Wait I forgot, he's my "scumbuddy"

[Infinity 324]

Good luck developing a better plan then.

[Infinity 324]

@Creature @Infinity Why can't I just predict what I want? Since your plan requires strategic prediction, scum can manipulate to ensure that the surviving town is minimum by taking the survivor's spot. That's what you fail to consider.

Because I don't trust town to not all distrust

[Infinity 324]

Did you just break the game?

VOTE: realeo

[Infinity 324]

Wait lol

UNVOTE:

It's only an auto-win to catch scum on d1 if some people distrust/flee

[Infinity 324]

I wonder if realeo is scum bluffing here.

[Infinity 324]

Becuase scum!infinity follows a plan, that what makes infinity (that Impreium dubbed as) agenda-y.

I like the depth here.

I think this is mostly true about my scum play.

[Infinity 324]

(Although I'm just reminded that my question I forgot to ask was why Infinity told blade dancer to read the previous thread when he was asking setup questions, but didn't tell Creature to do the same thing and entertained the questions there though some things had already been asked and discussed in the previous thread.)

Well creature was in the first game and blade dancer wasn't. Also I don't remember creature asking questions that had already been answered?

[Infinity 324]

Oh

Nvm then

[Infinity 324]

I should really give reads on everyone. Hopefully that'll come tomorrow.

Meanwhile we need to hear from n_m, pepto, NJAC, and blade dancer.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry guys, losing motivation a little bit...

I promise I'll give reads tomorrow.

[Infinity 324]

I was not excepting that. This is a different Titus than I know, scum or town.

[Infinity 324]

I'm thinking Titus may have been more likely to play like her usual self as scum since she tends to do well as scum. Not a very solid reason but something nonetheless...

Maybe I can work out a PoE here.

[Infinity 324]

I'm thinking Titus may have been more likely to play like her usual self as scum since she tends to do well as scum. Not a very solid reason but something nonetheless...

Maybe I can work out a PoE here.

You hang tight with your meta, eh?

Yes

I find Titus difficult to read without meta

[Infinity 324]

Hmm?

Titus being difficult to read without meta is a general comment, I'm not sure if her being different this game will change that. Also RC being a Titus alt is a joke.

[Infinity 324]

Imperium- putting a lot of effort into solving the game and going beyond the surface often. Did the most to try to get the game moving imo. Town
Vedith- town stuck in a death tunnel
Creature- Also putting quite a bit of effort into the game, this feels like his usual town self but more active. Creature tends to lurk as scum afaik
Pepto- not much here, but gut makes me want to lean town on him. Ask me about this at some point and I'll try to explain it
Titus- slight lean town
Realeo- I still have no idea how to read this guy.
NJAC- a bunch of setup spec but not much scumhunting effort. Lean scum
n_m- Not even playing the game, I suspect he may be trying to be so blatantly anti-town that people think he can't be scum. But Occam's razor makes me put him at null

[Infinity 324]

We have less than 3 days left. It may have been unrealistic to think everyone would agree on the strategy, but we should at least agree on someone to vote. If that person is a townread, or me, fine. Just make sure it's some own and make sure we have no more than 3 people distrusting and 3 people fleeing.

Let's do this.

[Infinity 324]

putting a lot of effort into solving the game

I thought you have learned from The Purge?

You're right, but in a slow game scum are less likely to put a lot of effort in.

[Infinity 324]

putting a lot of effort into solving the game

I thought you have learned from The Purge?

You're right, but in a slow game scum are less likely to put a lot of effort in.

Also, I think you and lane were over-trying in that game, to the point of being LAMIST. Imperium isn't trying more than I would expect from town in their position, and creature I've seen be this active as town once and he's usually less active as scum from what I know.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Realeo

Lol

Can you do something please

[Infinity 324]

Given the circumstances I think it's very unlikely we'll hit scum

Let's do this

VOTE: vedith

Would also be ok with imperium's section

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: imperium

Should 2 people distrust or?

[Infinity 324]

Eventually we'll have every player trusting a segment anyway.

We'd rather that later though no?

[Infinity 324]

Distrusters of town aren't guaranteed town but more likely.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Imperium

L-2

VOTE: imperium

Should 2 people distrust or?

VOTE: Imperium
Happy to distrust to give a proven town if needed.

L1

That's hammer

[Infinity 324]

Distrusters of town aren't guaranteed town but more likely.

Uh my God. Gamblers Fallacy on my eye.

Hmm?

[Infinity 324]

Vedith volunteered to distrust, so

Follow

I don't see how it's an issue with math. If scum distrust town!imperium, they will lose their vote which is a downside, but other than that there's no issue with it.

[Infinity 324]

Finally caught up .

You all look kinda town .

This means I need to reread .

This feels fake.

Agree with real that vedith should flee instead of distrusting.

The way it works is that whoever follows scum is trapped and whoever distrusts town is trapped. Scum have to follow themselves, and since their own section was just attempted they get trapped and die no matter what. We want to keep at least one person alive in case imperium is scum, so fleeing works

[Infinity 324]

Hard to explain, but I'll give it a shot. You worded it in kind of a silly way when it doesn't seem like it should be silly to me. Almost like you felt awkward about not having anything to call scummy so you said it like that. The same thing could come from town though, so take it like you will

[Infinity 324]

Now that I think about it, I remember calling you out for awkward-sounding posts in 1805. So make that less confident and something I possibly should check up on

[Infinity 324]

Bleh yeah you're right

That is very unlikely though.

[Infinity 324]

If nearly every town member follows them, yes.

Yeah imperium is town because they're looking deeply and trying to solve the game, the offer to attempt their own section doesn't contribute to that.

[Infinity 324]

It's up to you though, I wouldn't fault you for fleeing here although personally I'd take the risk.

[Infinity 324]

This seems pretty solid to me, my own thoughts aligned pretty closely with yours. My hope with getting our segment attempted first was that we could remove ourselves from the scumpool early and wasting a minimum of town resources to get there (in exchange for making ourselves more susceptible to death) and then start to kill scum tomorrow. I felt particularly strongly about this plan of action due to low activity; Tammy, my better half who is actually paying attention to the game, didn't really have any townreads that she felt really good in and she thought that buying the extra time would probably be a good idea. Is your thought that for attempted scum lynches that we should mostly split trust and distrust/flee 50-50 or do you think we should hedge one way or another?

I was thinking we would split it evenly between trust and distrust and have the rest flee, like creature suggested, but now that I think about it there's probably less than a 50% chance we'll hit scum any given time. So splitting it 50/50 between split and distrust+flee sounds like a good idea.

If you haven't fleshed it out already, I'd like to see how you got from "we have to attempt segments of scumreads" to attempting our segment even though we are a townread.

I think I did mention this before, but there was less activity than I would've liked and no one really had any solid scumreads (well except for vedith ).

What were you referring to when you said that NM could use Creature's read of him to his advantage if scum?

I think you misunderstood something here. Creature said that in general, n_m was easy to read, and I asked him in general how he reads n_m. If n_m was scum though, he could use creature's explanation to his advantage to get creature to townread him. I realized that soon after I posted.

Wasn't Realeo already privvy to your scum strategy?
So, unless Realeo is your buddy yet again, aren't you sort of forced to reveal it?

True.

[Infinity 324]

Looking at that votecount made me realize that if ved and inpern are scum, town loses already. I'm townreading both at the moment, but i'd much rather not put all of town's eggs in one basket. As such,

Flee

This is towny imo, scum would probably just let NJAC flee

[Infinity 324]

We need a townie alive after attempting all sections to win

[Infinity 324]

No we have to do everyone's section lol

[Infinity 324]

Time to scumhunt now. I'm really tired but I'll start doing stuff in the morning.

In the meantime I want to know what was going through NJAC's head when he was deciding whether to flee. It's possible he's scum who was waiting hoping town would take is place, which happened

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about NJAC's?

We'll see what happens. I plan on using our time better this time. So we should get a better idea of what to do at the end of the day.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: n_m

[Infinity 324]

Yes, probably. It's unlikely scum would step in like that in favor of just letting town use their flees.

[Infinity 324]

Time to scumhunt now. I'm really tired but I'll start doing stuff in the morning.

In the meantime I want to know what was going through NJAC's head when he was deciding whether to flee. It's possible he's scum who was waiting hoping town would take is place, which happened

Can you answer this please?

[Infinity 324]

That's a good idea actually

[Infinity 324]

I'm pretty sure vedith is town here because if he was scum he would just use his stubbornness to coast

n_m seriously, seriously needs to do something. Too bad we can't policy lynch in this setup.

[Infinity 324]

n_m is being even more unhelpful than he usually is as town though. That makes me suspicious

[Infinity 324]

What do you mean by that last part?

[Infinity 324]

Ok, I'm glad to see you're reevaluating your reads.

[Infinity 324]

If we don't find a good scumread today, I'm confident that vedith is town so we could just do his section.

[Infinity 324]

Because I townread vedith more strongly during morning 1 and now he's reevaluating his reads instead of coasting on them, like I would expect scum to do.

[Infinity 324]

Ok

We need to hear more from: pepto, Titus, and n_m

[Infinity 324]

Uh you too

But you've done

something

this phase I guess

Who's scum?

PEdit: NJAC as a townread? Why are you so confident there?

[Infinity 324]

Now that I think about it, I remember titus saying in the how to read titus thread that if the game is going slow and she's not trying t over it moving then she's likely scum. In general I think she's more active as town so yeah.

Other than that not much AI for her.

[Infinity 324]

Now that I think about it, I remember titus saying in the how to read titus thread that if the game is going slow and she's not trying t over it moving then she's likely scum. In general I think she's more active as town so yeah.

Other than that not much AI for her.

I didn't read this over before I posted it apparently 0_0

That's supposed to say "not trying to get it moving"

[Infinity 324]

It can be both for some people. Given what you said in your own thread about how to read yourself, I concluded that you are one of those people.

Do you think this is wrong? Why would scum!me push on this but not town!me?

[Infinity 324]

Realeo, sometimes you say things that don't make the slightest bit of sense to me.

What issue? What is the issue with? What am I taking at face value?

[Infinity 324]

Realeo, sometimes you say things that don't make the slightest bit of sense to me.

What issue? What is the issue with? What am I taking at face value?

You are making reference and cross them like a desperate journalist. I don't see skepticism or insecurity. I would expect town would be insecure because the possibility of their argument is wrong. Are you scum who is trying to negative associate scum!Titus?

I think it's a tone communication issue. It seems like you're saying I sound more confident that I should be (correct me if I'm wrong), but I'm really not that confident in a scumread on titus (that's why I said "unfortunately there's not much else AI for her")

Do you think this is wrong? Why would scum!me push on this but not town!me?

And this is a second WIFOM. With the "town!infinity because spilling out the strategy" the first WIFOM.

I want to see titus's thought process at least, that was not meant as a defense.

[Infinity 324]

@pepto, who are your best guesses for scum right now? Hopefully if we get some more active scumhunting going we can get a common scumread and make the game easier going forward.

[Infinity 324]

I'm not convinced realeo is town. He's capable of faking this kind of scumhunting as scum

If we did a townread I would much rather vedith

[Infinity 324]

I don't want to give out that information at the moment. I want to get a big body of work on you before I make my decision, and you can't know the criteria on which I'm making that decision.

[Infinity 324]

Well even if we can't trust your reads, we may be able to trust imperium's. If dont come up with a scumread, I'd rather do that than a less sure read.

[Infinity 324]

Lol

It's funny, in mislead 1, zyf tunneled me hard early on and then switched to a townread

After I flipped scum, people suspected zyf of being my scumbuddy but he wasn't, he's just weird like that

From what I know of vedith, I think he could just be weird like that

And I think scum!vedith would be coasting on the tunnel, there's no reason for him to switch now

[Infinity 324]

I want to get a big body of work on you before I make my decision, and you can't know the criteria on which I'm making that decision.

Tell me your big body of work on Vedith. You buddy Vedith on attacking pepto, nulling me, and defend him. Given that condition, you are THAT sure that Vedith is town.

I don't need a big body on work on vedith, I've seen a difference in his town and scum games. You're kind of a special case

But you should give the scum motivation for vedith starting to tunnel for me and suddenly turning about with me as town or scum. It just doesn't make sense.

[Infinity 324]

Go reread our interaction d1 and see if you think it's faked.

[Infinity 324]

Neither of you drunk right? I remember when Nahdia and JeeReed was drunk and play mafia while drinking.

Don't like alcohol lol

The premise of Vedith townreads infinity

on d2

is a towntell is the most confusing read ever.

Lylo? That's a big tell. D2? Really? D2????

Look at my sig. What would the

motivation

be for vedith to suddenly townread me as scum?

[Infinity 324]

Ok

Town can change their minds all the time. They do what they believe and it can sometimes not make sense to other people. Scum have a plan behind everything, and they like their actions to make sense to other people. This is also why vedith's flip on me is more likely to come from town.

[Infinity 324]

Oh I thought you said you had a problem with vedith's townread and not mine...

I townread vedith on d1 because hard tunneling on someone draws attention to yourself and gives people something to talk about when there wasn't much going on.

[Infinity 324]

So you town read me for tunneling, then town read me for not?

Uh yes

Pretty much, almost all tunnels done by scum are used as an excuse for not having genuine read development. You started the tunnel when you weren't obligated to do very much at all, which means it would've been easier and more beneficial for scum!you to just sit around and maybe give a weak read or two. Then, after the tunnel had developed, when people weren't really expecting you to further develop your reads, you broke out of it and re-evaluated. Basically none of it remotely seems scum-motivated to me.

PEdit: lol

[Infinity 324]

I could do pepto's segment, but I just don't see a good reason to do his over vedith's.

[Infinity 324]

@n_m, titus: Who's scum?

[Infinity 324]

I'd rather have titus and NJAC or titus and n_m flee. But I guess that works for me, I would like to draw or the deadline though and see if anything happens

[Infinity 324]

Would also like for imperium to get in here...

[Infinity 324]

Ok good.

[Infinity 324]

Why?

[Infinity 324]

There's quite a bit of planning but not enough scumhunting in the thread imo. Even though we don't specifically need scumspects in this setup, trying to find them will help us get better reads on everyone.

[Infinity 324]

What does game theory have to do with anything?

I don't remember your meta too clearly from back then, but I do remember you saying that you're likely to be scum if the game is going slowly and you're not trying not to speed it up. I never said it was a strong read, but I still don't see why you think scum!me would use that to make a read and town!me wouldn't. Let me see your though process, you're not giving me much to work with here.

I understand if you have RL issues though. Hopefully you'll be able to provide more content in the future.

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

Trying my best...

[Infinity 324]

But yeah I get RL is RL and that doesn't mean you're scum.

[Infinity 324]

Bleh, that's not gonna help things

[Infinity 324]

I don't have anything else to add, I'm waiting on titus, n_m, and pepto to contribute still.

n_m had about twice as many posts in the fallout shelter than he had in this thread which is

[Infinity 324]

I don't see why town!realeo couldn't have just been paranoid there. If I had to choose, his paranoia looks a lot more genuine than yours at eod1 since he was actually trying to investigate more.

VOTE: pepto

Let's get this going I guess.

[Infinity 324]

Just looking at this game drains my motivation

[Infinity 324]

Each of us should list the 7 most likely scumpairs, according to our reads (ideally in order of likelihood). We should then see which are the top 7 scumpairs, then each of us choose one of those and, ideally, stick with that to the end.

Thoughts?

I was thinking about doing this later on when we have more solid reads so we don't have to change the team we choose. I wanted to try to agree on the scumpool as a town as well, not sure if that will work out.

[Infinity 324]

How about this, we do Pept, Titus and Real flee. The rest follow.

Any objections to this?

How about titus/NJAC or titus/n_m

[Infinity 324]

It doesn't matter if you townread pepto, it matters if you're scum because we don't want to waste town flees.

Most people townread pepto, that's why we're attempting his section.

[Infinity 324]

If NJAC townreads pepto, you can't force him to flee. If everyone townreads pepto, no one flees.

Strongly disagree with this. Everyone can townread someone and be wrong.

If no one else flees, I will

[Infinity 324]

Follow

n_m is scum, he needs to flee.

[Infinity 324]

Flee

Ugh

Someone needs to distrust n_m but there's no way any of us will get him to do anything

But there's no way he's town not playing this game and not replacing out

[Infinity 324]

My thought is that while I don't feel particularly confident in Pepto-town and am not really sure why people are voting him in the first place, I'm probably willing to take the risk in following since Infinity is a real townread and we at least have one person who would survive a worst case scenario and feel that if we have him as living confirmed town along with us then we'd be in a good position to get more aggressive tomorrow.

Infinity townread really?
When he claims my IRL issues are scum motivated?
NJAC frankly seems town based on the effort wanting to pin people to reads.

Like yeah I am not sure on Pepto but I am not like sure he's scum either. If you follow and are right, then we have two conftown and we can systemically narrow down who scum is.

If wrong, we know Pepto is scum and that gives us a fighting chance.

When you explained that you inactivity was based on IRL I accepted that reason.

[Infinity 324]

Well.

I'm still leaning towards n_m but it could be titus or NJAC still

May be worth to distrust titus because we get another guess if she's town but not sure.

If it's someone like realeo I'm gonna flip a shit.

We really should've chose vedith

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it's creature or vedith

I think it could be you or realeo

NJAC and n_m are my top suspects.

[Infinity 324]

Fuck

Greetings.

Who is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Does that mean you townread him? If so, why?

[Infinity 324]

Not sure why town!n_m hasn't replaced out yet tbh

[Infinity 324]

And think about this.

Infinity was towntunnel at Vedith
Infinity was scumtunel at NJAC
Infinity was scumtunnel at Not_Mafia

But suddenly, after flipping out of nowhere to pepto, he is not confindent at Pepto? Why the sudden change? Is infinity scared that Titus will be alone so Infinity needs to flip to limit Titus' movement due to the rule "if there is a tie, the first wagon is passed."

I can understand tunnel. Some people do tunel. Titus is a kind of player who likes to tunnel. But don't you see the inconsistency with infinity?

I understand double standard, but even there is a standard about the double standard. Infinity decided to double standard me for a reason: It's hard to read me. Acceptable. Infinity decided to double standard Pepto for what?

I was never really that confident in anyone being town except for vedith on d2. There was just not enough content in the game at that point. If someone had suggested to attempt creature's segment for example I would've been similarly paranoid (although we can't really afford that paranoia at this point). I just couldn't see a good reason to attempt pepto's segment over vedith's at that point. But ultimately pepto was a townread of mine too and seemed to have more support. And keeping my vote parked on vedith or n_m wouldn't have helped anything--at least I wanted to go to the evening phase if we couldn't get discussion going. In retrospect, I probably should've pushed harder for vedith's segment but there was a pretty low chance of pepto being scum in my mind.

[Infinity 324]

He's my still my top townread as he was on d2. He's last on my list of people to distrust.

What do you think about NJAC

[Infinity 324]

I don't see a reason to go into creature or vedith. Over the next few days I will ISO realeo, n_m, titus, and NJAC with pepto (though he didn't leave us much information) and see where that gets me. In retrospect it does bother me quite a bit that people wanted pepto over vedith without proper reasoning (except in realeo's case).

[Infinity 324]

Sure

VOTE: vedith

At least this will give us more time and make me feel a little better

[Infinity 324]

I was never really that confident in anyone being town except for vedith on d2.

But why you never start a Vedith wagon? Your move will be accountable if you move to Vedith or Realeo (for the genuine paranoia), but why Pepto? Only your move and N_M is not accountable.

I asked people why not to try vedith's segment but no one gave me a good response and I figure it wasn't worth it and pepto was probably town anyway.

I wanted n_m more though because I wanted to try a scum segment. But others didn't

[Infinity 324]

I don't understand why so many people townread n_m 0_0

[Infinity 324]

n_m/NJAC/you/real

Although your play recently is giving me townvibes

[Infinity 324]

If NJAC is in your scumpool, I don't get your question.

But it's an essentially a PoE read with some things that bother me about him.

Need to ISO him in mini 1805 again though since he was lynchbait there.

[Infinity 324]

I did want my scumreads to flee and said so a couple times but no one else was putting pressure on them.

But it may have been for the best in the end

[Infinity 324]

Who has interaction with pepto?

[Infinity 324]

Why is titus scum

[Infinity 324]

I did want my scumreads to flee and said so a couple times but no one else was putting pressure on them.

But it may have been for the best in the end

Can I ask the logic of pressuring scumreads to flee? What's the goal? I can't catch it.

There's quite a low chance of any given player being scum with the player whose section is being attempted, even if they are scummier than average. If the player who creature the segment was scum, everyone else has a lower chance of being scum. Therefore, the chance that town flees would be saved if pepto was town outweighed the risk of having one less town player alive if pepto was scum.

[Infinity 324]

Town flees are saved if scum flees instead.

Reread it.

[Infinity 324]

If the player who creature the segment was scum, everyone else has a lower chance of being scum.

This is the key piece.

[Infinity 324]

No. It's just that the likelihood of them being scum goes down.

Put another way, the chance that they were scumbuddies with pepto was so low as to be essentially negligible.

[Infinity 324]

Just titus I believe

[Infinity 324]

No. It's just that the likelihood of them being scum goes down.

Put another way, the chance that they were scumbuddies with pepto was so low as to be essentially negligible.

Their likehood of your scumread (NJAC,N_M) decreases. Correct.

But isn't the likehood of your townread (Vedith, Creature, etc) also decreases?

Yeah but the likelihood of my townread being scum was so low anyway

[Infinity 324]

No. It's just that the likelihood of them being scum goes down.

Put another way, the chance that they were scumbuddies with pepto was so low as to be essentially negligible.

Their likehood of your scumread (NJAC,N_M) decreases. Correct.

But isn't the likehood of your townread (Vedith, Creature, etc) also decreases?

Yeah but the likelihood of my townread being scum was so low anyway

Let's say this:

Chance of scumread town before Pepto : 79%
Chance of townread town before Pepto : 89%

After that:

Chance of scumread town after Pepto : 88%
Chance of townread town after Pepto : 99%

Why don't you push townread to flee, like I did at Vedith at d1, when they have a higher chance of town?

The percentage of being scum doesn't go down by a fixed amount. It's roughly cut in half but not exactly.

More like

NJAC has a 15% chance of scum instead of 30%
Vedith has a 3% chance of scum instead of 6%

See my point?

[Infinity 324]

The whole point of my argument is that I didn't want to waste town flees, and the risk was low because the chance of even my scumreads being scum was in fact low if pepto was scum.

[Infinity 324]

Second argument: I didn't see hesitation when you are scum reading NJAC and N_M

Hmm? Those are largely PoE scumreads, and since I'm not confident that you nor titus is town, so yeah they're pretty weak

[Infinity 324]

You push Poe scumreads at D2? That's very early considering there is no urgency for.

Yeah I still maintain that we should've tried a scumreads segment on d2, would've made the game a lot easier if we predicted and hit scum.

[Infinity 324]

Oh

I don't see why they had to be confident. I just thought that the scummiest players should flee.

[Infinity 324]

I mean, this what I mean by anti-strategy.

People keep trying to organize who to flees and who distrust. You're not confident with your read? Don't control others. Why the others read is worse than you?

Because other people weren't pushing for their scumreads to flee at all...

[Infinity 324]

I mean, it's not like other people were pushing for certain people to flee and I was saying they were wrong. I thought everyone agreed that scummy people should flee but no one was actually pushing for that to happen

[Infinity 324]

The idea was suggested multiple times, not just by me and no one disputed it.

[Infinity 324]

How about this, we do Pept, Titus and Real flee. The rest follow.

How about this, we do Pept, Titus and Real flee. The rest follow.

Any objections to this?

I thought it was implicit here

Anyway I definitely implied multiple times that I thought scumreads should flee, why didn't you argue it then? vv

I'd rather have titus and NJAC or titus and n_m flee. But I guess that works for me, I would like to draw or the deadline though and see if anything happens

How about this, we do Pept, Titus and Real flee. The rest follow.

Any objections to this?

How about titus/NJAC or titus/n_m

It doesn't matter if you townread pepto, it matters if you're scum because we don't want to waste town flees.

Most people townread pepto, that's why we're attempting his section.

Follow

n_m is scum, he needs to flee.

[Infinity 324]

Use works not quote walls infinity...

I am drunk.

Persuade me someone is scum.

Titus I don't know who scum is...

[Infinity 324]

Why

[Infinity 324]

Apparently

It's not a secret or anything that NJAC is in my scumpool...

[Infinity 324]

Anyway I definitely implied multiple times that I thought scumreads should flee, why didn't you argue it then?

Would like this answered btw.

[Infinity 324]

Hmm?

I'm asking why you didn't argue my assertion that scumreads should flee.

[Infinity 324]

Hmm?

I'm asking why you didn't argue my assertion that scumreads should flee.

If NJAC townreads pepto, you can't force him to flee. If everyone townreads pepto, no one flees.

NJAC is your scumread, right?

You're missing the point. I was saying that it's better for scumreads to flee than townreads-- you disagreed and I didn't find out about it until the next phase.

[Infinity 324]

Use works not quote walls infinity...

I am drunk.

Persuade me someone is scum.

Titus I don't know who scum is...

Then tell me who town are.

Vedith and creature. I thought we've been over this...?

I still need to talk more with people and do ISO's but that's where I'm at right now

[Infinity 324]

Hmm?

I'm asking why you didn't argue my assertion that scumreads should flee.

If NJAC townreads pepto, you can't force him to flee. If everyone townreads pepto, no one flees.

NJAC is your scumread, right?

You're missing the point. I was saying that it's better for scumreads to flee than townreads-- you disagreed and I didn't find out about it until the next phase.

No. No. My approach is different.

I have been trying to stop the motion of 3-3-3 which Creature has been tossing, right?

But no one listens.

A general approach doesn't works

. It doesn't work, no one listens, so instead of trying to influence the pressure, I influence the one who is being pressured.

At d1, Vedith was pressured. I approach him individually by using Who Wants To Be A Millionaire analogy. It works. He flees.

At d2, NJAC & NM was pressured. I don't bother about NM so I decided to defend NJAC.

Ok, but there wasn't a concern about my alignment at the time?

[Infinity 324]

After reading I think Realeo is townier than Infinity. I also think Realeo has some valid points against Infinity in 714, 715 and 716.

I thought I was conftown according to you?

I already responded to that stuff too

[Infinity 324]

Ugh sorry guys

Definitely not confident titus is the last scum

[Infinity 324]

I proposed that a long time ago when I townread titus less, also that was assuming titus wouldn't try my segment

You should really explain your townreads on NJAC and n_m

[Infinity 324]

Ugh sorry guys

Definitely not confident titus is the last scum

Yeah, less and less confident about Infinity being town. Infinity's segment should be tried before Titus'.

That opinion didn't change by the way.

[Infinity 324]

Follow

I need to get back into this game

[Infinity 324]

I'm like 90% sure the last scum is one of {Titus, Infinity}.

Trying those segments with the other player distrusting is an auto win scenario.

Titus definitely isn't the first person I would distrust right now, and I also find it suspicious that you're pushing for us to distrust each other.

Expect ISOs for me starting tomorrow night and pressure me on it if I don't do it.

[Infinity 324]

Ok.

[Infinity 324]

Ok. In titus's ISO I don't see a lot of solid evidence one way or the other, but I do see quite a few posts that give me townvibes. I remember reading some scum!titus games, and her emotion didn't really show through this much. Tbh it didn't that much either in her towngames, but I think it's more likely she'd change her meta as town than as scum because she has quite a good scumgame and she knows that. Also, the posts are pretty towny without a meta consideration. I'm just worried because I don't know if I can bet on this. What do you think NJAC

Spoiler: townvibes

So I assume you have narrative for Creature since you townread him?

My gut says so. It would be unfair for me to ask you to view my read as sheep able, but Creature just is. Either I feel it or I don't. When I mean a narrative with data, I mean a story explaining things. I don't have one at all.

It's one thing when it's only your life and your reads to try and justify something. Yet, this is others lives. I have no business leading or expressing confidence yet, only trying my best at the moment.

Facts come, then a narrative.

Hey, for some reason, all the words here are running together. Someone ask me something random to help please.

I am inclined to agree that not mafia not posting here and not reaching out is a bit of an issue.

OK, Infinity and I are the only ones that can survive. I am at Infinity or Realeo as the final scum.

I think the proper play is to eliminate slots as the scum. Moonlogic Vedith.

Vedith is correct that Releao's posting is bad.

I have to agree with Infinity to progress the game.

So lay it on me Infinity, your reads.

(always a sucker for a reachout, especially towards a scumread)

I know someone who could be silenced right now, but not sure if you would agree with me.

Ok... shoot. I need checks on me because we all lose if I am wrong.

Use works not quote walls infinity...

I am drunk.

Persuade me someone is scum.

I'm like 90% sure the last scum is one of {Titus, Infinity}.

Trying those segments with the other player distrusting is an auto win scenario.

Yeah, I am not doing Infinity's wagon anytime soon as I don't know there. It's convienent that you want the last two living players to distrust each other's wagons.

(because I had the same feeling)

[Infinity 324]

Creature what are your reads, I forget

[Infinity 324]

Hey n_m, you're online. Would be awesome if you posted

[Infinity 324]

I don't mind getting Titius section over with or doing some townreads first

I just made a post explaining why I townread titus. You think either me or titus is scum. We have a disagreement here.

[Infinity 324]

Mhm, because ignoring the disagreement seems like the best way to approach it.

[Infinity 324]

I think N_M is my biggest townread right now.

Explain.

[Infinity 324]

Then what does he do? He's barely been giving reads anyway

[Infinity 324]

If you don't know your reads, at least give a scumpool. I want something to discuss.

NJAC and n_m were already my top 2 guesses for scum, and they both are saying me and titus should distrust each other. I think scum is in there.

[Infinity 324]

Infinity, do you have questions for me?

I am checking periodically but I am vla today and tomorrow.

Have your reads changed?

[Infinity 324]

93% sure about scum in {Infinity, Titus}.

If you want to try any other segment then do it, idc, just follow.

Then engage me on it

[Infinity 324]

My explanation of town!N_M is not enough?

No, I don't think how well a partner is doing would tend to affect scum's level of motivation. Usually, at least for me, I'm either invested in the game or I'm not.

[Infinity 324]

Wait, wrong.

93% sure about scum in {Infinity, Titus}.

If you want to try any other segment then do it, idc, just follow.

Imperium.

What about imperium

[Infinity 324]

Why are you ok with townreading n_m?

[Infinity 324]

Lol says the guy who didn't engage me on my big post that said why I townread titus

Are you scum?

[Infinity 324]

Secret 3p? I mean he's not mafia, but...

[Infinity 324]

If anyone actually thinks Titus is scum, they aren't demonstrating it.

^^

Will ISO creature, real, n_m, and NJAC over the weekend.

[Infinity 324]

Well shit

Might as well VOTE: titus

Hopefully we'll get some good reactions from this.

[Infinity 324]

I didn't mean that kind of reaction.

[Infinity 324]

Wait, wrong.

93% sure about scum in {Infinity, Titus}.

If you want to try any other segment then do it, idc, just follow.

Imperium.

What about imperium

[Infinity 324]

NJAC, I am going to trust unless you convince me on this here right now.

[Infinity 324]

I want to give it some time for people to make arguments, if only to judge whether they're genuine. I'm pretty sure one of the people who are pushing me to distrust is scum, which makes it even more important.

But yeah we can do my section next.

[Infinity 324]

My plan of people pressuring me to do ISO's hasn't really been working but I'm in the mood now so I'll try realeo's.