Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[I Am Innocent]

Might as well point out the Black and Void are both scary, just like Mafia...

vote BlackVoid

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry all real life craziness til Tuesday. Might have a little time Saturday or Monday to get to this.

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry all real life craziness til Tuesday. Might have a little time Saturday or Monday to get to this.

Apparently I need to be more specific when LA... :-/

Still on business in NYC...things should slow down by tomorrow/Tuesday for me to start participating

[I Am Innocent]

Better late than never my momma use to always say.

I have a little down time right now so I'm going to get through as much as I can right now. My apologies all.

[I Am Innocent]

Innocent is capitalized because I was talking about a player that is in the game -> "I am Innocent" I don't blame you for missing it that, he's a lurking bum right now.

I'm working on it I'm working on it...

PS - words hurt Sotty

[I Am Innocent]

Thru page 14, should be caught up by tomorrow.

[I Am Innocent]

hoping to finish my catchup now

[I Am Innocent]

Greatest Player of all time thread. Yeah, I saw that too. I almost think if Sotty7 were goat-level scum, I'd be reading her as town.

@Sotty7, what would you say is your biggest strength and weakness as scum?

Way to stick that link in there and cost me 15 minutes of my catchup time reading that thread!

Oh wait, look.....SQUIRREL!!!!

[I Am Innocent]

So you aren't new actually. You're another alt. Why didn't you just say so?

3 mafia and a SK would pass for normal
2 teams of 2 mafia would also pass for normal.

And sorry, not going to believe your denial cause a newbie doesn't talk about balance and such during their first game on site.

P.edit - no you don't have to do a reads list

Two mafia, one being a vig would also pass, or at least did in one game I played.

[I Am Innocent]

IAIs ISO is a teenage wasteland. I'll be caught up soon! Uh huh. Obviously it's bad. Not enough to motivate me to lynch day 1, but an acceptable vig target.

Oh no u didn't!!!

[I Am Innocent]

Also IAIs first content is to setup speculate. Poorly, since mafia vigs are explicitly non-normal.

We could just lynch him actually.

Nah more just a comment. One of my better games actually. Pretty sure it was a normal, I was the scum vig, 12 vs 2.

[I Am Innocent]

Also IAIs first content is to setup speculate. Poorly, since mafia vigs are explicitly non-normal.

Yeah nice call genius.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=63370

[I Am Innocent]

Okay, my two choices for lynch today are GreyIce or Jaack.

vote GreyIce

L-1.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't know why I'm feeling so opposed to this lynch when I don't townread the slot it's more of a null read

Still think we should give the guy at least a DAY to catch up because no harm done in it

You give me your greyice vote today you have my jack vote tomorrow.

[I Am Innocent]

I don't know why I'm feeling so opposed to this lynch when I don't townread the slot it's more of a null read

Still think we should give the guy at least a DAY to catch up because no harm done in it

You give me your greyice vote today you have my jack vote tomorrow.

A free lol hammer....oooo *Shakes head* NO!
I'm giving this guy a day to catch up!

No I would never advocate that without a claim.

But feel free to express intent to see what bogus claim he comes up with.

[I Am Innocent]

Including self I have 5 town reads on the GI wagon. Feel good about it.

[I Am Innocent]

I think the ease with which this BBT/Grey wagon has powered along with virtually no opposition is throwing me off. This has been compounded recently by IAI's L-1 vote, Cloud's willingness to hammer it, and everyone pretty much sitting on their hands mildly content with the proceedings. No Jack has sprung up despite interest in it. There have been vague rumblings about the BBT/Grey wagon from Maria and Rask, but nobody is going WAIT A MINUTE, HOLD ON A SECOND HERE.

So... I am confused. And I'd like to see what Grey says. And I'd like IAI to come in here and explain his reads and have a chat with me.

Let's chat. I hate falling behind and when I have to read 25 pages in 2 days I basically pulled out a piece of paper and note any positive or negative post that I notice. Two columns.

For example if something catches my eye, negative column (poster, post #, reasoning or connection to another player later, etc).

If a player after that catches the same thing I did, they'd get a positive point.

I also note early scum and town tells on my paper but I don't disclose those in thread cause when you do people stop making those tells. I note this practice in almost every game I play and can link to it if people are wary of this.

At the end of the catchup I sum up the positives and negatives and connections and formulate my scum and town list. Needless to say bbt/greyice had almost all negatives (1 positive) and jack had all negatives. I also saw a connection or two between them.

I also find it interesting that GI listed me victor and jack as his scum reads, yet he votes victor and pushes me for vig, despite jack receiving the most attention in thread other than bbt at this moment. Classic scum including 1 mate in his scum list but pushing others?

As for the L-1 vote, go read pick your powers D2, and despite scumming up the thread and having zmuffin and pieguyn and myself pushing his lynch, scum GI escaped. He only was lynched D3 due to N2 actions by the watcher.

I'm pretty sure that slot is scum and to leave scum GI alive is like playing with fire.

Just curious hoopla, why the unvote, esp when a claim request was made? Did your read change?

[I Am Innocent]

This has been a good hustle by Grey so far. He's really doing his slot proud, but I'm still not sold on Victor scum, sooooo I'm just gonna chill on the Jack wagon for a while...

Once again read pick your power day 2. Good hustle by GI is NAI.

Reread BBT and you'll get your answer.

[I Am Innocent]

IAIs ISO is a teenage wasteland. I'll be caught up soon! Uh huh. Obviously it's bad. Not enough to motivate me to lynch day 1, but an acceptable vig target.

Jack is... a good vote. A really good vote. His posts are just fake feeling and shallow. Like reading from a script.

Maria is town.

I've never played with MichaelSableheart before. We're going to press all each other's buttons. I think he's town though.

Rask is town. Sotty town. Two face town. Victor scum.

Huh I have too many town reads. Unless it is Victor/Jack/IAI. Feels wrong.

Jack is a really good vote that hoopla, maria, blackvoid, myself have all expressed suspicion of...yet votes victor.

When GI flips scum jack is next.

[I Am Innocent]

IAIs ISO is a teenage wasteland. I'll be caught up soon! Uh huh. Obviously it's bad. Not enough to motivate me to lynch day 1, but an acceptable vig target.

Jack is... a good vote. A really good vote. His posts are just fake feeling and shallow. Like reading from a script.

Maria is town.

I've never played with MichaelSableheart before. We're going to press all each other's buttons. I think he's town though.

Rask is town. Sotty town. Two face town. Victor scum.

Huh I have too many town reads. Unless it is Victor/Jack/IAI. Feels wrong.

You're a broken record. Stretching! Read more! Stretching! I mean I'm proud you found a thesaurus and discovered reaching was a synonym for stretching but your response sucked. And now you're trying to taunt me.

I seriously wanted sableheart to chat because I don't like some of his stuff, but you're uncomfortable with where you stand. It's predictable, the only things you've really cared about is other people's town reads (getting your own scum reads pushed at all is a distant second) but if you're not going to sit patiently, then I'll cram a wagon down your throat and talk to sableheart too. It'll be multitasking.

What happened between these posts that had Michel going from town to not liking some of his stuff?

[I Am Innocent]

I've skimmed everything, but have thoroughly read the first 6 pages.

It seems that part of my feelings for goodmorning were caused by skimming. Posts like #112 do have solid content buried within the fluff, but that's not immediately obvious when skimming.

Such implicit content seems slightly more likely to come from town then from scum, as they're generally somewhat less concerned with how they're perceived. Therefore:

Unvote

BBT is not a bad wagon. The way he asks rask for scum ON the wagon immediately after unvoting in #97 seems like a calculated way to focus attention on others for something he did as well.

Vote: BlueBloodedToffee

Noting that Jaack and BBT are unlikely to be scumpartners, as I feel the interaction in #97, #101 and #102 is a 1-2 punch that scum wouldn't set up that early in the game. Scum would be more likely to keep a bit of distance, to safe the coordinated attack for when it's more impactful.

...esp since this is his last post which was BEFORE ur town read of him.

Lol at that read progression...

[I Am Innocent]

With that said, it looks like BBT is play for today. Hopefully we can L-1 a wagon and get a claim to assess before getting too close to the deadline.

I agree with this. My biggest pet peeve in mafia is the amount of D1's that wait until the last 48 hours to compromise, leaving little time to analyse a claim, and often reducing the town to chaotic scrambling if that wagon dissipates.

Really, the most interesting/alignment relevant things that happen on D1 occur post-claim, so lets get a move on. Maria, BBT, goodmorning, Innocent and Cloudkicker are wasting their votes and future time to analyse a claim/wagon as far as I'm concerned.

So based on this any interest to join cloud on intent on GI to get a claim so we can assess?

[I Am Innocent]

If I hadn't already said Face was Town then 542 would have convinced me.

It seems that part of my feelings for goodmorning were caused by skimming. Posts like #112 do have solid content buried within the fluff, but that's not immediately obvious when skimming.

Protip: In posts that have some grammatically correct sentences and some non grammatically correct sentences, the correct ones are more likely to be important, and the incorrect ones are more likely to be entertaining.

In posts that have none, I was too tired for grammar, probably.

--

Between the two wagons, I prefer Sotty.

I don't have a huge problem with either wagon

nor with us suddenly being in some way constrained to them alone. I'd like to see more from Toffee before I commit to anything though.

So GM, how did you go from not having "a huge problem with either wagon" to chainsawing me for pushing that wagon:

I could vote IAI today if that wagon becomes a thing.

Like, "he voted someone other than the most popular of his SRs, thus Scum plus buddy!"
But if Grey had voted Jaack instead of Victor I bet it would be, "he has other SRs but voted the popular one, he is Scum!"

Yeah that is a strange 180 from someone you thought might be scum, to say I'm scum for falsely pushing him regardless of what actions he did.

Also noted the poor town read of Jack later in that same post. Grey/Jack/GM?

[I Am Innocent]

Can you post a list of your reads from town --> scum? Maybe even with scores if you're feeling friendly?

Just from the catchup, for instance ur unvote/contradiction from an earlier stance where you don't like to wait until deadline to get claims would have been a negative point:

Town: Cloud, Hoopla, BlackVoid, Victor, Sotty
Null/Town Lean: Rask, TwoFace, Michel, Maria
Null Scum: GoodMorning
Scum: GreyIce, Jaack

3 of the town reads dropped strong town tells (including yourself), both scum read dropped a early game scum tells in addition to poor posts. Good Morning to did not have one positive post either. BBT was the only of my scum reads to have a good post, and it was for his early vote on the Rask wagon since I saw something there early on. Of course Rask has since been more townie, so that one post doesn't offset the number of bad posts/scum tell that slot dropped.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI's fake vigor is as hilarious as it is pathetic. "I run this town!" He's using it to disguise the fact he doesn't want to give any reads. It's fake aggression from a player that's very well aware he has earned a vigging and desperately wants to avoid that.

As for the Michael Sableheart, you're watching my thoughts immediately after I replace in versus my thoughts after I read over more and think about it. But I guess when you have nothing, you have to cling to every little scrap.

What are you going on about here? Casting shade, lying about my reads (I've got a list with every player!), saying I'm afraid of a vigging yet why would I be since when you flip scum I'll be nearly confirmed with my L-1 vote and hard push to get a seventh vote (see offer made to maria).

So confident he was town to now pushing as possible scum, quite the 180 considering no addl posts. I call scum BS!

Hoopla and cloud please trust me on this one. Maria the day 2 offer still stands if you come over as well too.

[I Am Innocent]

I was in one other game that required my attention. I since was killed in that game. Maria can confirm as she was in that game as well (death note).

Interesting how ur read has developed so strongly on me as I've continued to push ur lynch. It is pick ur powers all over again, except replace zmuffin with me.

[I Am Innocent]

I have a question for everyone on the Grey wagon

Why do you think no other wagons have really picked up until now because he's scum and getting bussed? Or it's just hard to vote him and scum are content with losing him?
I don't know the answer and I want to

I have seen shade thrown my way, Sotty's way, Victor's way, now Hoopla's way. What do these all have in common???

Hmmmmm, voting GreyIce?

Town is voting GreyIce. There is not any scum on that wagon, so no, no bussing is happening. If he was town, scum would have hammered at one of these points already. But since he's not, yeah, back to the shade and now terribad wagon on Victor.

Grey is getting lynched though today, and we will have lots of information after we see he flips red.

[I Am Innocent]

Black, get back on this wagon, kthxbye

[I Am Innocent]

Right now I have scum in {Grey, Jack, GM, and/or Rask}. If the rest of you would kindly vote GreyIce and confirm me town going forward, I'd appreciate it. Esp since they don't look like they are going to bus any time soon...

[I Am Innocent]

Well since ur probably town why not make history then???

[I Am Innocent]

like, if iai is not dead when we wake and someone tries to claim vig later i'm fucking lynching them

Is this still true if we lynch Grey and he flips scum?

Town is voting GreyIce. There is not any scum on that wagon, so no, no bussing is happening. If he was town, scum would have hammered at one of these points already.

you are better than this

Have to agree here. If in innocent is town, he's delusional. Even if he thinks grey is scum, there's one scum on the wagon but grey is most likely town here. No strong resistance to his wagon and he was the counter to sotty who has had a ton of resistance.

Nope not delusional. It's possible I'm right about Grey and wrong about Michel. It's also slightly possible that I'm wrong about Grey's slot and Sotty and/or Michel is scum. But like I said, the shade thrown at me, sotty, victor, and now hoopla over the last 5-10 pages doesn't tell you anything??? Take off your sotty tunneling glasses for a minute, pretend she is town, and who now do you see as scum? Who is defending Grey now (some who were recently suspecting him), who is working with him to direct vig shots (always anti-town, since the noise from the group has scum influence in it, a town vig can 100% trust himself tho), who is also trying to cast shade on multiple other options.

Trust me, hop on this wagon, and I'll make sure it's town cred u get when he flips scum, and not late scum bussing cred. Offer expires shortly...

[I Am Innocent]

Rask, what is the point of declaring Intent? GI claimed. GI stated his final reads. I see no town motivated reason for declaring intent at this point.

[I Am Innocent]

If creature is to be believed though, he's going to switch votes to victor (why not already?) and then twoface will hammer. Presumably after waiting for a claim though?

Nothing presumable about it. A hammer without a claim will be considered a scum claim, and result in auto lynch the next day.

[I Am Innocent]

Guys look at the facts:

BBT's catch up was scummy as all get out
BBT replacing out as he was receiving pressure from his scummy catch up was just as scummy as all get out
GI coming in saying what a great vote Jack is, to voting Victor, and suggesting me for vig, followed up by quickly replacing Jack with Hoopla on his scum reads for reasons I still haven't understood is shady
GI claimed VT, so if we're wrong, it doesn't cost town much
GI, whether scum or town will give us so much information to work with starting D2

It's a friggin no-brainer. I have never in my almost seven years on this site, seen an L-1 wagon for so long and so close to the deadline on a town player. Ever. Scum would have hammered a long time ago, and esp more recently if Victor scum/GI is town.

Just end this day Rask and let's take the information and move forward. If I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be the #1 candidate for lynch D2. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

[I Am Innocent]

Nothing presumable about it. A hammer without a claim will be considered a scum claim, and result in auto lynch the next day.

I think it's cute people still say this

I think it's cute you don't think I mean it.

[I Am Innocent]

Also, Victor, some life advice: you're a bad player and an ***hole. Go **** yourself.

Class act right here.

[I Am Innocent]

You used the tunnel to sit out today. If we are both town (and sadly, Victor probably is, even if he wants to play like bad scum) that's awfully convienent.

DUDE I HAD REAL LIFE STUFF GOING ON!!!!

AND READ PICK YOUR POWERS OR ANY SLEW OF GAMES I PLAY IN, I DON'T GIVE OUT EARLY SCUM/TOWN TELLS. IN PICK YOUR POWERS I HAD ONE FRIGGIN SCUMTELL FOUND....REMEMBER THIS PERSON....LLD, YOUR TEAMMATE WHO ENDED UP WINNING THE GAME.

Get lost dude. I have zero respect for you as a mafia player.

[I Am Innocent]

Hey IAI: you're still scum. Please lynch

If you really are town, then I guess I can use some of those same comments directed at victor back at you post game.

[I Am Innocent]

Post 769

"Just an FYI, lady dropped the biggest scum tell D1, but nobody still seems interested in her..."

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=750

[I Am Innocent]

Sotty/hoopla if ice isn't trolling

I guess you wouldn't. You don't really seem to care about much this game at all, except your Sotty read of course.

If you do flip town, and victor is actually mason. All signs point to Sotty/hoopla scum and yes, all I care about is lynching scum.

either catch up on your own or replace out.

[I Am Innocent]

hmmm, those two posts were not suppose to be there, tho I did find them interesting as two face's final reads.

Sotty, Hoopla, who do you each feel is scum at this point?

[I Am Innocent]

looks like a scumslip to me. Mightve quoted twoface while deciding the night kill, this is kinda hilarious

Sigh, please go back to epicmafia if this is the best you have to offer...

[I Am Innocent]

LOL dude do you even understand why its a scumslip ? And i reread last 3-4 pages before the wagon and apparently you were his hard sr, ohh the coincidence

might want to reread again. like his last 3 posts.

[I Am Innocent]

I even quoted them above....u know the ones u keep calling a scum slip?

[I Am Innocent]

I was talking about the day lynch about being his top sr. Its funny that the quotes you quoted includes both sotty/hoop. i bet my macaroni if youre scum one of them is also mafia because you mightve quoted it as an incencitive to kill him, ya dun gooffed

actually both are my scummates. wanna help me lynch them??? I'll even let you pick which one goes first since ur obviously the genius in this game.

[I Am Innocent]

I saw two face was lynched. I iso'd him. Selected those quotes. realized the game was still locked. came back later, saw ur lame quote about asking others to bring you up to speed, so I went into the quick reply and said read up urself or replace out. after I hit submit I realized I never "unquoted" the two posts I wanted to bring to everybody's attention. got it?

[I Am Innocent]

I was talking about the day lynch about being his top sr. Its funny that the quotes you quoted includes both sotty/hoop. i bet my macaroni if youre scum one of them is also mafia because you mightve quoted it as an incencitive to kill him, ya dun gooffed

actually both are my scummates. wanna help me lynch them??? I'll even let you pick which one goes first since ur obviously the genius in this game.

Ill lynch you first tho, if thats correct for you

no I'm a 2 shot treestump, better get my teammates first. i'll help u by bussing them.

[I Am Innocent]

cloud I am so glad ur in this game to keep me straight, thank u very much.

Creature, I made a promise to myself if I was wrong about grey I'd look over his reads and 1009 brings up some good points. I've been defaulting on my hoopla town read based on a big town tell day 1, but I'm less convinced now.

[I Am Innocent]

cloud, under the slight chance I'm just being sarcastic about my alignment and am not really scum, would u take the time to read up on the thread/parts u missed. kthxbai

[I Am Innocent]

I'd like hoopla's and sotty's scum reads when they come in.

[I Am Innocent]

I want to look thru some vote counts but at this time I'm fine with sotty hoopla and GM votes.

[I Am Innocent]

Hoopla who else do u suspect? Thoughts on Sotty?

[I Am Innocent]

I was working on this yesterday, but ran out of time. Here are some READS:

FUTURE TOWN BLOC MEMBERS WHO WILL SERVE AS THE BACKBONE (ALONG WITH ME) IN GUIDING THE TOWN:

Michel

- I see him as a voice of reason type who we seem to be lacking in this town (not that everyone else isn't reasonable -- it just seems like everyone is all over the shop and shooting from the hip)

Raskolnikov

- seems to be the most universally read as town player, which will be useful for collective PoE efforts later in the game

TOWNIE BUT A TINGE OF PARAN

OIA:

BlackVoid

- makes good posts, is active and seems like a good townie, but from what I've seen of him, he seems competent enough to be able to fake these things convincingly. Hopefully he is town and can serve as a consultation role to the primary town bloc.

S

T

U

B

B

O

R

N

/

L

O

O

S

E

C

A

N

N

O

N

T

O

W

N

I

E

S

:

Maria

- unpredictable, but I'm a sucker for exclamations like

"It's fun to ask why people sr me because it's so much more fun to prove them wrong ^_^"

- I just don't see scum saying stuff like this as often as town

Victor

- has that abrasive town feel about him, but I'm mostly townreading him because of other people's reactions towards him.

LURKERS/NULL/DUNNO:

Jaack

- post some more please

I Am Innocent

- post some more please

Cloudkicker

- hard to get a read on his motivations when he is fresh to MS's metagame. Sometimes he says filler-y/random agreeing posts, but I feel like that's just trying to fit in and act in a way how he thinks is expected of him on this site rather than anything scummy.

SCUMLORDS:

Sotty

- Actually feel like she's closer to null these days, but I have too many townreads and by PoE I think all the scum is in my null/scum section

goodmorning

- If Victor is town, I think it's quite likely that one of goodmorning/twoface are scum jumping in on the dogpile

TwoFace

- see above, probs not scum together tho

BlueBloodedToffee

- Upon reread is my top suspect is BBT. I noticed the same thing BlackVoid did but didn't have enough to post about it, which is why make the declaration that Rask is town, then later in the day start questioning someone else about their Rask townread. Seems like scum making up an arbitrary read early in the game (rather than really believing it as town) then later, just throwing out random filler-y questions as is scum's wont, without really recognising it doesn't make sense from a town perspective.

Might be some partner combos that are unlikely within my scumlords section, so sprinkle in the null/lurkers where appropriate to get the rest of the team.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BBT

Interesting that hoopla's unvote was for sotty, who is still a scum read ("but probably closer to null these days")

Prior to this vote exchange, Sotty was up to 4 votes and BBT was tied for 2nd at 2.

[I Am Innocent]

I think the Sotty/BBT competing wagons look quite delicious and I am fascinated to see how they will progress.

Very next post. Yet despite the two delicious wagons and seeing how they progressed (BBT/grey was lynched and flipped town), hoopla seems to have forgotten all this D2:

First of all, kudos to GreyICE for replacing into a probably doomed slot and putting a ton of effort into providing analysis for the town -- I think if I were around late in the day that effortposting might have been enough to sway me and I'll review your reads later. Some anti-kudos for the predictable name calling and blame-the-other-guy spazzing out, but whatevs.

Personally, I find the mason claim highly likely to be true. I'm very curious about those who claim scum do this all the time, because I rarely see it... at least not in mini normals where balance can be judged upon massclaim. Two mason fakeclaims will stick out like a sore thumb in a sea of PR claims if they are indeed fake. The most likely situation is we have two masons and one other good PR or two masons and two weak to middling roles. There's pretty much never two masons in a town with three or four other PR's, so we can easily tell later in the game if the mason claim is fake. So, everyone should just drop it until massclaim occurs... which we'll be doing the Day before mylo/lylo.

Anyway, while I'm catching up, I see there is a goodmorning wagon and how could I not take that opportunity? I still think there was a scum involved in that nonsensical argument that Victor/me/goodmorning/TwoFace had yesterday. She almost certainly isn't a mason too which is bonus points in my eyes for avoiding accidentally wagoning the other mason.

VOTE: goodmorning

...more to come.

[I Am Innocent]

Sotty that's a no no and you know it. Why are u pushing for a claimed masons read on me...role fishing?

[I Am Innocent]

It feels like he is waiting for someone to come up to him and say it's okay IAI, you can vote Sotty!

Place your vote, even if it's on me.

I never thought that someone would be you!

vote Sotty

Actually, I spent over an hour tracking all the votes from Day 1 (see spoiler), and then got busy with family stuff. So you can stop with all the "do something already" shade. Your 180 in just a few posts on me stinks, as does you day 1 voting history. I'm pretty sure town Sotty would be mixing it up, you're posts lack the passion I've seen from you in your town games. Sorry you drew scum, maybe we can play again after this game and we can be on the same side.

Spoiler:

Post Date Player Vote Unvote
4 10/19/2016 I Am Innocent BlackVoid
6 10/19/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
8 10/19/2016 goodmorning GreyICE (BBT)
11 10/19/2016 Creature (Michel) Hoopla
17 10/19/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
28 10/19/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
30 10/19/2016 Sotty7 goodmorning
33 10/19/2016 TwoFace CloudKicker
34 10/19/2016 Raskolnikov MariaR
35 10/19/2016 VictorDeAngelo I Am Innocent
37 10/19/2016 Jaack BlackVoid
47 10/19/2016 goodmorning GreyICE (BBT)
47 10/19/2016 goodmorning VictorDeAngelo
56 10/20/2016 BlackVoid Raskolnikov
58 10/20/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Raskolnikov
59 10/20/2016 Sotty7 goodmorning
59 10/20/2016 Sotty7 Raskolnikov
62 10/20/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
62 10/20/2016 Hoopla Raskolnikov
63 10/20/2016 TwoFace CloudKicker
63 10/20/2016 TwoFace Raskolnikov
66 10/20/2016 CloudKicker TwoFace
70 10/20/2016 Raskolnikov MariaR
70 10/20/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
77 10/20/2016 Creature (Michel) Hoopla
77 10/20/2016 Creature (Michel) goodmorning
97 10/20/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Raskolnikov
101 10/20/2016 Jaack BlackVoid
101 10/20/2016 Jaack Sotty7
102 10/20/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Sotty7
104 10/20/2016 MariaR goodmorning
107 10/20/2016 TwoFace Raskolnikov
118 10/20/2016 MariaR goodmorning
119 10/20/2016 Sotty7 Raskolnikov
119 10/20/2016 Sotty7 GreyICE (BBT)
127 10/20/2016 Hoopla Raskolnikov
127 10/20/2016 Hoopla MariaR
156 10/21/2016 MariaR Creature (Michel)
158 10/21/2016 BlackVoid Raskolnikov
158 10/21/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
162 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo I Am Innocent
162 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo GreyICE (BBT)
192 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo GreyICE (BBT)
192 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo CloudKicker
241 10/21/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
241 10/21/2016 Raskolnikov goodmorning
245 10/21/2016 CloudKicker TwoFace
256 10/21/2016 CloudKicker MariaR
276 10/21/2016 Hoopla MariaR
276 10/21/2016 Hoopla Sotty7
293 10/22/2016 VictorDeAngelo CloudKicker
293 10/22/2016 VictorDeAngelo goodmorning
311 10/22/2016 Sotty7 GreyICE (BBT)
311 10/22/2016 Sotty7 TwoFace
339 10/22/2016 TwoFace VictorDeAngelo
373 10/23/2016 CloudKicker MariaR
373 10/23/2016 CloudKicker Creature (Michel)
402 10/23/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Sotty7
402 10/23/2016 GreyICE (BBT) MariaR
445 10/24/2016 Raskolnikov goodmorning
445 10/24/2016 Raskolnikov Sotty7
452 10/24/2016 MariaR Creature (Michel)
452 10/24/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
464 10/24/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
464 10/24/2016 BlackVoid Sotty7
466 10/24/2016 Sotty7 TwoFace
466 10/24/2016 Sotty7 GreyICE (BBT)
511 10/24/2016 Hoopla Sotty7
511 10/24/2016 Hoopla GreyICE (BBT)
527 10/24/2016 TwoFace VictorDeAngelo
527 10/24/2016 TwoFace Sotty7
551 10/26/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
555 10/26/2016 Creature (Michel) goodmorning
555 10/26/2016 Creature (Michel) GreyICE (BBT)
565 10/26/2016 BlackVoid Sotty7
565 10/26/2016 BlackVoid goodmorning
592 10/27/2016 BlackVoid goodmorning
592 10/27/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
594 10/27/2016 VictorDeAngelo goodmorning
594 10/27/2016 VictorDeAngelo GreyICE (BBT)
622 10/27/2016 MariaR Jaack
634 10/27/2016 I Am Innocent BlackVoid
634 10/27/2016 I Am Innocent GreyICE (BBT)
671 10/27/2016 Hoopla GreyICE (BBT)
688 10/27/2016 Hoopla Jaack
711 10/28/2016 GreyICE (BBT) MariaR
712 10/28/2016 MariaR Jaack
712 10/28/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
713 10/28/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
739 10/28/2016 GreyICE (BBT) VictorDeAngelo
769 10/30/2016 MariaR Jaack
815 10/30/2016 CloudKicker Creature (Michel)
828 10/30/2016 Hoopla Jaack
828 10/30/2016 Hoopla GreyICE (BBT)
857 10/30/2016 MariaR Jaack
857 10/30/2016 MariaR VictorDeAngelo
858 10/30/2016 Raskolnikov Sotty7
858 10/30/2016 Raskolnikov VictorDeAngelo
882 10/31/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
906 10/31/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
942 10/31/2016 Jaack Sotty7
942 10/31/2016 Jaack VictorDeAngelo
967 11/1/2016 Raskolnikov VictorDeAngelo
1057 11/2/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
1077 11/2/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
1077 11/2/2016 Raskolnikov GreyICE (BBT)

[I Am Innocent]

I know right.

[I Am Innocent]

Can I just assume scum wouldn't bother putting in the time to do that?
Was leaning town on you for gm's shade but wow.

Waltz dance I put in a huge effort when I was the last scum, so it wouldn't be unprecedented...

[I Am Innocent]

I think Cloud is

a clown

town. Goodmorning I go back and forth on between scum and lynchbait.

[I Am Innocent]

Also, the mod of this game links the votes in the VCs. It's the easiest thing in the world to ISO the mod and just click the links. I could do the whole damn game in 15 minutes or less.

And votes that may have changed multiple times before vote counts???

Get lost dude.

[I Am Innocent]

Most of the votes on Sotty are nrg...

So are most of the votes by GM

[I Am Innocent]

Not sure if GM actually got any scum reads.

[I Am Innocent]

Also, the mod of this game links the votes in the VCs. It's the easiest thing in the world to ISO the mod and just click the links. I could do the whole damn game in 15 minutes or less.

And votes that may have changed multiple times before vote counts???

Get lost dude.

Fine. ISO 3 people at a time, ctrl-f "vote:" and it's done in 20.

Stop pretending it's hard. It's not.

Yeah and my analysis yesterday while I was updating the excel spreadsheet about Hoopla's critical unvote of Sotty and vote to BBT yeah that was all just ctrl-f "vote:" to make myself look busy too I'm sure...

GM summarise why IAI is scum in a few sentences so someone would understand without reading any of your other posts.

He dodged posting as long as he could while being very active elsewhere. When he finally showed up and had reads they were identical to the majority. His vote on the Grey wagon was one that he could have justified no matter what action Grey had actually taken. His vote on Sotty doesn't make any sense; he strong-pushed TownSotty D1, spoke to her like he was SURE she was Town, now suddenly he's just decided she's Scum for no real reason? And his D2 start was the same as D1: he delayed posting as long as possible so he could see the lay of the land and quietly go along with - who again? - the majority. He still hasn't done anything but randomly vote Sotty (majority wagon hint hint) today either.

Also he's trying to undermine my credibility but that's a separate point.

Define very active elsewhere. If you count ONE OTHER GAME I WAS IN ON DAY FIVE OR SIX as "very active elsewhere" than I laugh in your face. Look through my history, I rarely ever play two games at once. I suspected I was going to die in that other game, so I signed up for this, and as soon as I did die in the other one, I focused on this one. But nice smear campaign which you obviously have no clue what you're talking about!

My reads were identical to others? I listed 4 other town reads, including Sotty and Victor who were being read as scum by many players. Once again, go check your facts before trying to come after me!

No I'm pretty sure I blasted BBT's catchup post, his replace out, among other things. So please don't sit there and say I did not provide any justification...I pushed that wagon harder than anybody.

Yes I town read Sotty, she was the counter to Grey. TwoFace was nightkilled over a claimed mason. There is a reason. Who did TwoFace push end of Day 1.....Sotty and Hoopla. Pretty sure he pushed Sotty almost all of D1. Guess who Sotty parked her vote on most of D1....yep BBT, then TwoFace, then BBT.....can I do some vote count analysis and change my reads? So take your "no real reasons" and shove it

Oh and psst....remember I strong town read Hoopla D1 too, don't forget that cause I also scum read her now too...

And once again, check the facts. I was one of the first posters to go at it D2...did you gloss over the whole Cloud/IAI back and forth start of D2. Pretty sure I was pretty obvious where my vote was going....just wanted to see how both players reacted (truth be told, they both reacted pretty bad).

[I Am Innocent]

Maria who are u scum/town reading?

[I Am Innocent]

thanks

[I Am Innocent]

IAI is all over the map. I goaded him into placing his vote but he still doesn't seem very convinced, his reasoning is vague and is based off things I simply can't defend. It feels like more of a bandwagon vote to make it look like he is doing something while hedging his bets.

Doesn't seem very convinced? A bandwagon vote? Hedging my bets? For realz???

I started off the today all but announcing to the world that I was going to vote either you or Hoopla. I waited to see how you two reacted. You voted Rask. She voted GM. I didn't like either of those votes. (Hers was a little better than yours.) Neither seems willing to vote the other which only reaffirms my read on both of you. If one of you had voted the other, that would have been very telling. But the way I see it, both are prob scum and neither are willing to bus.

You've played with scum IAI. Heck you nominated me for a scummy if I recall correctly after our first game. Then we played Zachtown in the Mountains. Which was all over the map IAI? It's not even close. Town Sotty would know my meta, know my cool play as scum and my erratic, don't care if I get lynched play as town.

I respect the heck out of you. I would never vote you day 2 of a game unless I was pretty sure you were scum. You are one of the feistiest toughest town players I've ever played with. You scared the heck out of me that first game. I'm not seeing that at all. I'm seeing a very tame Sotty, not aggressively pushing wagons on your scum reads, but instead trying to subtly discredit me by accusing me of being all over the place when you would know that is my town play. Remember my meltdown in the Mountains game against Ben, where I self voted. Would you consider that "all over the place"?

Inb4 WIFOM change in meta play etc blah blah blah

[I Am Innocent]

@Sotty, you mention this about me "his reasoning is vague and is based off things I simply can't defend"

You just listed Maria as "a lot closer to town than null"

What have you seen in her reasoning this game that gives such a different read on her?

[I Am Innocent]

I'm not sure I believe the claim either but there are other scum out there.

unvote sotty
Vote hoopla

[I Am Innocent]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

I care more about lynching scum, hence the hoopla vote!

[I Am Innocent]

Join the jaack vote for a townblock!

I care more about lynching scum, hence the hoopla vote!

Wow we have the same sight in mind!
So why is your vote not on jaack or BV?

Do you believe both Victor's and Sotty's claims?

[I Am Innocent]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

[I Am Innocent]

And as for your other choice, I still strongly town read BV. His reads may be all over the place, but that is town effort (not very easily fakeable).

[I Am Innocent]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

Isn't maifa with another kill like vig bastard or am I misunderstanding what you're saying

Well I already linked to one normal game earlier where I was part of a 2 player scum team and we had a vig. But in my comment, I was thinking more like a rolecop/vanilla cop, or roleblocker that would have a night action as well. something more than an a passive role like encryptor.

[I Am Innocent]

IAI can you try to show me a game or give me an example on the dif between town and scum effort because I feel mostly everyone puts effort in the game for me an example of town effort would be your "every vote thing" like if scum did that you're a tryhard.

our last game with transcend is a similar example. I felt he was all over the place, but eventually I realized that effort was not fakeable.

[I Am Innocent]

*not easily fakeable. very few players can do it.

[I Am Innocent]

Maria, you really think Hoopla is town? Can you please explain cause I am not seeing that one at all

[I Am Innocent]

Also IAIs first content is to setup speculate. Poorly, since mafia vigs are explicitly non-normal.

Yeah nice call genius.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=63370

Mafia Vigilante
Mafia Backup Vigilante
Town 1-shot Bulletproof Doctor
Town 2-shot Bulletproof Bodyguard
Town Friendly Neighbor
Town Friendly Neighbor
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie

[I Am Innocent]

Votecount 2.07

Hoopla (4)

goodmorning , I Am Innocent , Creature , BlackVoid L-2 ,

Jaack (3)

Raskolnikov , MariaR , Hoopla ,

Jaack (4)

Raskolnikov , MariaR , CloudKicker , Hoopla L-2 ,

Creature (2)

VictorDeAngelo , Sotty7 ,

Sotty7 (1)

Jaack ,

Not Voting (1)

CloudKicker ,

Day two deadline is Friday November 18, 1 PM PST. (expired on 2016-11-18 13:00:00)

VictorDeAngelo, goodmorning, Jaack, I Am Innocent have been prodded.

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch!

[/size]

I had Hoopia as a null town but given the way the wagons are turning out and 2 of the people I can see myself lynching black and Creature it makes me feel like that jumped on the wagon to save their scum buddy jack It's not really Hoopia's actions themselves that makes me tr them I would have to look in detail more

Okay so it's ur bad reads on black and creature that has u off....good to know, I won't put u in the scum pile yet then lol.

[I Am Innocent]

Rask and Cloud are my 2 biggest tr's and I'm gonna assume there's 3 scum let's just SAY hoopia is scum and jaack is town I feel like scum would just easily go onto this wagon I already feel like scum are on the Hoopia wagon that's why it isn't hammered

Yeah agree on Cloud. Rask I go back and forth on. I feel like he is just posting what I want to hear sometimes...

[I Am Innocent]

I'll venture a guess that exactly one of Rask and Sotty is scum.

[I Am Innocent]

I'm keeping that bad reads quote for when black and Creature flip scum and rubbing it in your face

It's possible Michel (now Creature) was the scum parked on Grey's L-2 wagon instead of Sotty, but I don't think so. I think Sotty was the early vote on it, Hoopla was the late scum wagon joiner, and one other scum stayed clear.

[I Am Innocent]

So you've played two town games with me so far, the one with transcend and deathnote, what is ur read on me?

[I Am Innocent]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=68380
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=67805
(Also a town game and scum game from me if you wanna try and meta me I guess)

I'll look at these later, need to help with dinner since my wife is out and my oldest ain't motivated lol.

[I Am Innocent]

Rask, what's ur read on Hoopla?

[I Am Innocent]

Cause the way I see it, with at least 2 town masons and a town tracker (this is the one I don't believe) in a 13 player game, I have to assume scum must be loaded with power. At least 2 scum with night actions (kill and at least one other), yet this group goes after the one player that Sotty tracked doing nothing.

Yeah, jack is not likely scum.

Curious for thoughts from the people on the Jack wagon regarding this theory?

[I Am Innocent]

Hoopla 4
Jack 4
Creature 2 (Sotty and GM)

No vote 1 (victor)

I think we all know where Sotty's vote is going next, so Victor and GM, where you leaning?

[I Am Innocent]

Can I just assume scum wouldn't bother putting in the time to do that?
Was leaning town on you for gm's shade but wow.

I don't understand the point of IAI doing all of that, and what the conclusions of all that work is, but I agree it's townish for him going out of the way and doing it.

I'm still not sold on the Sotty wagon and would rather be lynching gm.

Right now the realistic lynches are probably
Sotty, hoopla, gm, and it looks like me and maybe you.

I think I'd need your support to lynch gm though. If not then it's sotty or hoop.

I don't think you're a realistic lynch today?

Anyway...

do de do doo

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sotty

Will switch back to Jack, or to goodmorning/IAI if need be.

So what changed between these posts?

[I Am Innocent]

Did anyone play Dragon Age mafia btw?

I hydra'd with Nero but flaked/never posted. Did read along. What's ur question?

[I Am Innocent]

So what changed between these posts?

I had a similar conversation just recently...

I still think Rask and Maria are good people of the town. So, of all your reads I'd be most inclined to lynch Sotty, but that would probably just be based on the claim alone which sounds fishy to me. I really think she claims a largely unprovable decent value PR there 90% of the time as scum and almost never VT. She obviously always claims Tracker as town Tracker, but now that I think about it, given we probably have two mason claims, there's likely only one or two other town PR slots, but there's three scum slots remaining, and since she claims something like this as scum almost always, it's actually more likely this claim comes from scum just from the number of scum left vs. number of PR's left.

Any your read on me? Seemed like you were leaning town by that post, what changed?

[I Am Innocent]

hoopla, full reads list please?

[I Am Innocent]

unvote hoopla
Vote sotty

L-1

[I Am Innocent]

Thanks to the mod for a fun game!

Overall enjoyed the game and most of the player list. Happy my reads came together day 2, and after Sotty's flip I had enough town reads, as listed in the mason thread, to win the game (jack, rask, creature, mason partners). As I said in the dead thread, the key to the game was not telling a 1 shot BG to save his shot for when there was only one mason left. Would have put cloud in an awkward situation.

[I Am Innocent]

Cloud had a decent early game though.

^this. I had a pretty strong town read of him day 1

[I Am Innocent]

Funny how my reads got so much better after ur slot died and surprisingly flipped town. Don't be so bad in the future...

[I Am Innocent]

If u can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen

[I Am Innocent]

Let's all just be friends

For sake of all the classy people that played in this game, I'll end my responses now, otherwise [redacted] will just keep posting crap that I'm actually starting to think he honestly believes in that warped head of his.

Friends tho...not likely.