Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[CloudKicker]

LOL woops btw i just townsliped that i cannot be mafia with i am innocent or i am a pro at forum mafia in my first game

Usually when you point out things like this yourself they're less likely to be true than if someone else noticed it themself. Kinda like when people use the argument "I would never do X as scum", when that person has been doing X all game.

I come from a site where its very very hard to townslip on purpose and this was genuine. Its not alignement indicative to point said slip, you can then judge for yourself if you believe it is one or not Mostly scum will disagree, ppl who will 100% buy it are scum pocketing you and the rest is yolo. Seriously most of the users on EM are disgustingly incompetent at mafia so i point out the slips. But i agree with the wifom.. i would never wifom like that as scum
Also, its just a non-team slip and its an obvious one

Someone points out why self meta is bad, you quote them and continue to self meta.

The flirting stuff is gross too

EBWOP: This is all because you can't read her Cloud? The vote suggests you are leaning more scum than anything else. When you say you want a read from her- you want her to read you or the game in general?

MariaR - Have you seen this from Cloud before?

LOL she seen it all

And seriously, self-meta isnt bad since its free information that someone can call me out on eventually, sincerely i think its towny if anything. And i can read sonia, pretty well too but like i said this is my first forum mafia so i am not confident. I just want her to interact with me and outs some reads. And i want them directed to me, i prefer to read someone whos talking to me than to someone else. And flirting isnt gross and yes i do that all the time

[Hoopla]

Hmmm, I feel like I have a lot of town reads and not many scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Sotty7

I've felt vaguely suspicious of her for a while for reasons I can't put my finger on yet. I also feel like she's been preemptively buddying me and has ruled out the possibility of trying to read me/interact with me today.

[goodmorning]

I haven't hated his responses to GM.

I have; he's been deliberately attempting to infuriate me, I think.

[BlackVoid]

I've got a fair few townreads cracked. Victor, GM, Rask, TwoFace, and Cloud.

Mostly waiting for content from the lurkpool. In the meantime, if anyone wants to discuss any of those reads with me, I can probably go into that.

[TwoFace]

His stuff on Twoface is mostly good

[Hoopla]

I've got a fair few townreads cracked. Victor, GM, Rask, TwoFace, and Cloud.

Mostly waiting for content from the lurkpool. In the meantime, if anyone wants to discuss any of those reads with me, I can probably go into that.

I agree-ish with most of those reads, but how are you town reading Victor? Is it along the lines of scum usually aren't brazen enough to be deliberately obtuse?

[BlackVoid]

It's more that he sincerely believes he's in the right. I don't see what he has to gain as scum by manufacturing an accusation on you out of thin air, and then insisting that he's absolutely right to the point where he thinks two-face is scum for misrepresenting him. The BBT vote at the time was a plus too.

[TwoFace]

and then insisting that he's absolutely right to the point where he thinks two-face is scum for misrepresenting him

What game are you reading? Because I can't find any of this in victor's iso

[TwoFace]

And for the record it's easy for scum to act like they believe what they are saying. I mean scum are sort of required to act like they believe their accusations so they don't get caught.

[BlackVoid]

He didn't explicitly say that. I'm talking about how he was insisting that your 201 doesn't make sense and how he was incredulous that your interpretation was different than his.

Scum have to act like they believe what they are saying. My point is that it doesn't look like an act to me.

[MariaR]

Scum want to be consistant and always try to give more reason behind a read it's more likely for town to be lazy or not be able to back up a read then scum that's just a proven fact

[MariaR]

He didn't explicitly say that. I'm talking about how he was insisting that your 201 doesn't make sense and how he was incredulous that your interpretation was different than his.

Scum have to act like they believe what they are saying. My point is that it doesn't look like an act to me.

See I know what you're saying but can you tell me what you think an act of this would be or can you show me some parts that make it look real cause I'm having a hard time following you

[TwoFace]

He didn't explicitly say that. I'm talking about how he was insisting that your 201 doesn't make sense and how he was incredulous that your interpretation was different than his.

Scum have to act like they believe what they are saying. My point is that it doesn't look like an act to me.

Yeah the fact you read that interaction and get good vibes from victor is mind blowing. he's acting like we did t just have a conversation about that vey thing. See post 242 for the recap.

[TwoFace]

No, I mean your 201 doesn't make sense. Did you not understand my post or do you need to rewrite it or something.

Plus this post implies he doesn't think I misinterpreted him, he thinks I didn't answer his question in a manner that made sense and looking at the question again maybe I didn't.

The answer to that original question (which is basically what I was already saying) is I think you singled hoopla out for the reason you gave in post 192.

I'm not even sure why he asked the question

[goodmorning]

Scum want to be consistant and always try to give more reason behind a read it's more likely for town to be lazy or not be able to back up a read then scum that's just a proven fact

actually scum usually have a harder time backing up reads because they have to make them up but o k t h e n

[MariaR]

Scum want to be consistant and always try to give more reason behind a read it's more likely for town to be lazy or not be able to back up a read then scum that's just a proven fact

actually scum usually have a harder time backing up reads because they have to make them up but o k t h e n

That's not the point I'm trying to make I'm saying scum are more likely to try and back up the read.

[goodmorning]

you said lazy OR UNABLE.

i don't disagree with the lazy part necessarily but it's more playstyle than anything actually AI but that's kinda long to explain so i was gonna stick to short and pithy.

[MariaR]

you said lazy OR UNABLE.

i don't disagree with the lazy part necessarily but it's more playstyle than anything actually AI but that's kinda long to explain so i was gonna stick to short and pithy.

what I mean by unable is from what I've got a lot more town are willing to say
"It's a gut SR or I won't tell you"
Then scum.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Because Victor's being much worse. Toffee is at least trying to do

something

.

Victors pushing things though? Saying he did less than BBT in this game is kind of a stretch.

The part I do agree with is I want him to explain his reads.

saying 'this guy is a good vote' is not pushing anything;saying 'come bandwagon this guy,' while both useless and dull, is.

1

Also, Victor has yet to explain shit. Toffee at least has said he wants to bandwagon people for pressure and

spent some time on his Raskolnikov townread.

2

1

Sure it is. First I was actually voting BBT, so while I didn't literally come out and say come bandwagon this guy I was putting pressure on him (and I wasn't the only vote on him at the time). Similarly saying I willing to vote another player is clearly an indication of my read, and gives other players a chance to see if they want to either question why I'll vote them, convince me to shift my vote, etc, etc. Saying let's have a bandwagon is simply saying let's pile votes without worrying about it. Given how early it was it doesn't even look like BBT is looking for anything particularly scummy from said player, but simply wants to get some wagons going to look like he's doing something without actually doing anything.

2

Where did the underlined happen?

Hoopla is fussing over semantics rather than asking why I would vote either player. That's not a townie move.

No, she isn't. Hoopla is saying, "you've said you scumread a couple people but haven't actually explained why and that's absolute shit."

But she didn't say that. She said I wasn't sharing reads. Not sharing reads isn't the same as not explaining them. If she had actually said something like what you quoted I wouldn't be scum reading her.

She said you weren't sharing reads "

punctuated with something other than variations of "...is a good vote".

"

WHAT ELSE IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?????

Again, the statement was;

As an aside, I don't understand the purpose of Victor and Maria declining to share reads.

However much you kick and scream, that's complaining I didn't share reads, not that I didn't explain them.

Which is the equivalent of insisting you explain yourself.

Then why didn't she just ask like Maria did?

I don't know, but given that she shouldn't have HAD to ask in the first place, I don't really care.

That's not an excuse. If your town you can't expect players to hand you their alignment on a plate. If she was town, I'd expect to be trying to get more information out of me. She didn't. She attacked and left, even after I gave her an opportunity to engage with me in 175. That's not townie.

Was about to vote victor actually but his response makes me think town, and goodmorning's push on him has been weird.

Go look at his entrance again. He comes in near the end of page two, throws a completely random vote, doesn't engage with the game in any way. Try and tell me that's in any way Town.

I think that probably answers your later question.

It answers one question I have.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Goodmorning

Which is the equivalent of insisting you explain yourself.

Then why didn't she just ask like Maria did?

Even when Maria asked for you to "share your reads with the class" you declined to share, so lets not pretend that you haven't had an opportunity to explain any reads.

1

You've been prompted several times by different players in different ways and you haven't volunteered any explanations beyond the superficial. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you're not just being facetious, I will politely ask you for some further explanation in a direct and easy to understand way. Hopefully my request for explanation has been presented in the correct format for you to reply:

1) Why did you think BlueBloodedToffee was a good vote?
2) Who are your two strong town reads? Why are they strong town reads?
3) Why did you originally think Maria might be a good vote, and why do you think she is town now?
4) Why are you suspicious of me?

1

- Nope, that question was relating to outing the two townreads I'm refusing to go into at this time not the scumreads.

1) Actually I have explained this at this point. You need to keep up.
2) I already said I'm not sharing these reads yet, for reasons I'm not going to explain either.
3) Similarly to BBT, I felt she townread rask too quickly. However I think she's town now because even after myself and her have taken heat for lack of explanation she is continuing to play that way rather than trying to adapt for towncred.
4) Again, this has been discussed in the thread. You went for attack over questioning. I'd expect a post like 261 to be the sort of thing you've have done naturally if you were town.

I come from a site where its very very hard to townslip on purpose and this was genuine. Its not alignement indicative to point said slip, you can then judge for yourself if you believe it is one or not Mostly scum will disagree, ppl who will 100% buy it are scum pocketing you and the rest is yolo. Seriously most of the users on EM are disgustingly incompetent at mafia so i point out the slips. But i agree with the wifom.. i would never wifom like that as scum
Also, its just a non-team slip and its an obvious one

I'm not going to comment on how difficult it is to townslip on purpose on a different site because it's not relevant here. However, you can't simply argue it's not alignment indicative because your taking heat. Scum have more motivation to point to "townslips" than town. Town have less motivation to look town, and absolutely no reason to try and convince people they are not scum with a player (since they are not scum with anyone).

[Hoopla]

4) Again, this has been discussed in the thread. You went for attack over questioning. I'd expect a post like 261 to be the sort of thing you've have done naturally if you were town.

I didn't realise you were this obtuse and required such explicit, direct questioning in order to pry information from. I thought it was clear I was asking for elaboration; Twoface thought it was clear, so did goodmorning. I'm going to leave it at that though, because this is a dead end semantics argument.

Although I still don't know the purpose of saying you have two strong town reads and then not sharing who they are, let alone reasons why. Why bother mentioning them at all?

[VictorDeAngelo]

4) Again, this has been discussed in the thread. You went for attack over questioning. I'd expect a post like 261 to be the sort of thing you've have done naturally if you were town.

I didn't realise you were this obtuse and required such explicit, direct questioning in order to pry information from.

Nice attempt to deflect but your doing it again. You're equating not sharing everything with not sharing anything.

And yes, this may be a novel concept, but asking direct questioning is one such way of getting information. It's not the only way, but it's not like you're trying anything else.

Which is why I'm questioning your towniness.

Although I still don't know the purpose of saying you have two strong town reads and then not sharing who they are, let alone reasons why. Why bother mentioning them at all?

You'll have to wait and see.

[Hoopla]

Nice attempt to deflect but your doing it again. You're equating not sharing everything with not sharing anything.

Why did you bother asking me what I thought of your reads, when the extent of your reads were

"X might be a good vote"

? Surely you must have known there was nothing there for me to comment on.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Nice attempt to deflect but your doing it again. You're equating not sharing everything with not sharing anything.

Why did you bother asking me what I thought of your reads, when the extent of your reads were

"X might be a good vote"

? Surely you must have known there was nothing there for me to comment on.

To attempt to engage you. There were any number of useful things you could have said:

"I think BBT is town and don't agree."
"I think Maria is a good vote as well"
"Why is BBT a good vote?"
"How scummy do you think BBT is?"
"Why did choose BBT over Maria?"

As just a few examples. It's not that you couldn't comment but you didn't.

[goodmorning]

you said lazy OR UNABLE.

i don't disagree with the lazy part necessarily but it's more playstyle than anything actually AI but that's kinda long to explain so i was gonna stick to short and pithy.

what I mean by unable is from what I've got a lot more town are willing to say
"It's a gut SR or I won't tell you"
Then scum.

eh, unwilling =/= unable but w/e

1

Sure it is. First I was actually voting BBT, so while I didn't literally come out and say come bandwagon this guy I was putting pressure on him (and I wasn't the only vote on him at the time). Similarly saying I willing to vote another player is clearly an indication of my read, and gives other players a chance to see if they want to either question why I'll vote them, convince me to shift my vote, etc, etc. Saying let's have a bandwagon is simply saying let's pile votes without worrying about it. Given how early it was it doesn't even look like BBT is looking for anything particularly scummy from said player, but simply wants to get some wagons going to look like he's doing something without actually doing anything.

2

Where did the underlined happen?

1. actions =/= words. it's a proactive vs reactive thing. also i really don't want to get caught up defending toffee because he's also been awful thus far but less awful than you, much like cancer is less awful to us somehow when it happens to adults rather than children.
2. context of 97 makes it pretty clear imo.

Hoopla is fussing over semantics rather than asking why I would vote either player. That's not a townie move.

No, she isn't. Hoopla is saying, "you've said you scumread a couple people but haven't actually explained why and that's absolute shit."

But she didn't say that. She said I wasn't sharing reads. Not sharing reads isn't the same as not explaining them. If she had actually said something like what you quoted I wouldn't be scum reading her.

She said you weren't sharing reads "

punctuated with something other than variations of "...is a good vote".

"

WHAT ELSE IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?????

Again, the statement was;

As an aside, I don't understand the purpose of Victor and Maria declining to share reads.

However much you kick and scream, that's complaining I didn't share reads, not that I didn't explain them.

i

quoted hoopla's actual post

. 177.

KNOW THE FACTS

Which is the equivalent of insisting you explain yourself.

Then why didn't she just ask like Maria did?

I don't know, but given that she shouldn't have HAD to ask in the first place, I don't really care.

That's not an excuse. If your town you can't expect players to hand you their alignment on a plate. If she was town, I'd expect to be trying to get more information out of me. She didn't. She attacked and left, even after I gave her an opportunity to engage with me in 175. That's not townie.

if YOU'RE town you shouldn't be deliberately trying to make it harder for everyone else. bad play, very antitown.

Although I still don't know the purpose of saying you have two strong town reads and then not sharing who they are, let alone reasons why. Why bother mentioning them at all?

so he can draw attention to himself and pretend later that's good evidence against him beinng scum???

p-edit: OR YOU COULD JUST FUCKING EXPLAIN YOURSELF IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF ACTING LIKE A SHIT FFS

[goodmorning]

it's 4 am and i broke a quote WHAT A SURPRISE