Micro 642: Auction Mafia TOWN WINS!

[BNL]

VOTE: My Other Head Is Scum

This is where my gut is right now.

[BNL]

I think Lane is town.

[BNL]

VOTE: My Other Head is Scum
Hydra hate
---
As far as things go

JOAT

is certainly the best quality item right now as strongman basically cancels out

doctor

.

Roleblocker

as always can be pretty usefull if you use it on the right person.

Role Cop

is mostly useful for figuring out someones value (in money), if no one will admit who had which power.

I don't like this post either.
1. "Strongman basically cancels out doctor" feels like a scumslip, though I could see it as denying it from scum.
2. He is talking about how good roles are and how to use them, but I feel that it's quite generic and shallow.

[BNL]

VOTE: Davsto

L-1

the temptation to self-hammer is overwhelming

i am a danger to myself

This is like my first game in a couple of months though plz

I disagree with the bidding tactics because letting scum know what we're planning on bidding allows them to co-operate, so I won't be following it but you guys feel free to since it's not an awful one (like the one in the first game where someone decided we should organise exactly who bids on what which was a terrible plan)

Ignore me, i just want to save this thread.

And three useless comments...

I usually see these as scummy, but we're in early game, and I have personal reasons to not see them as scummy:
McMenno's L-1 vote is just a trollolol vote and from what I've seen about him it's his personality.
Davsto also like to make fluff posts, and he also did give his own opinion of the happenings in the thread which not many people have done, and in fact, I like it.
Charloux tends to joke around, and also tends to be lynchbait.

[BNL]

VOTE: My Other Head Is Scum

This is where my gut is right now.

Is this like an "ooh these posts don't sit well in my stomach. I think I have to poop" sort of gut feeling.

Or a "honestly fuck this hydra" type of gut feeling haha.

VOTE: map wolf

Firebringer's posting feels like his scum posting.

[BNL]

I don't see scum!BNL pointing out these stuff. It can only hurt mafia

Which parts hurt scum? Which stuff are you talking about?

I think scum would pass on telling those kinds of things, because they can use them in the future for easier mislynches. Why do you think it's NAI?

What kinds of things? The stuff about wolf map? Or the reasons he doesn't think those 3 useless posts are from scum? You don't think scum can pick something and call it null?

In particular, he says you tend to be lynch bait, why would that come from town? And do you agree with that?

@bnl, you said Charloux tends to be lynchbait, and linked one game. "tends" makes me think it's more than once, and almost to be expected. But you only linked one game. Do you have more?

No, sadly I do not. But I know this from what JaeReed and Raskolnikov have said in their games.
I do have one more game with Charloux here. Though he wasn't lynched, you can notice how scummily he behaved on the first half of Day 1, just lurking and fluffing. (I didn't pay attention to the game after D1 as I was lynched)

[BNL]

I disagree with the bidding tactics because letting scum know what we're planning on bidding

allows them to co-operate

, so I won't be following it but you guys feel free to since it's not an awful one (like the one in the first game where someone decided we should organise exactly who bids on what which was a terrible plan)

Upon rereading, I realised that this is a townslip.

. Scum will have 48 hours of day talk at the beginning of each day phase.

Scum can't cooperate outside the first 48 hours.

[BNL]

Even without the townslip, I am townreading Davsto.

okay so the case for mapwolf is:

1) He said that the JOAT was the strongest power because of the utility of the strongman. And he's not wrong, even if it is more utility for scum than for town, it is still the most useful and it's good for town to get because if scum uses the strongman it makes two of the other powers virtually useless. So a wagon went on him for bad wording? I mean it's understandable but kinda weak.
2) "Late RVS". Completely ignoring the fact that (a) it was Map Wolf's first post, so someone told about RVS would likely just include it in the first post (b) it was barely into page two so it's hardly what I'd describe as "late" and (c) McMenno did an RVS vote

literally two posts before it

. So, that is dodgy as all fuck, and it looks like DarkLight was trying to come up with a reason to vote MapWolf who was the growing wagon, but didn't want to look too much like he was sheeping everyone else so he came up with a reason to look more credible.

VOTE: DarkLightA

I like this early scumhunting. The case on DL is legitimate and well thought out, but there are some things that I disagree with:
You said that DL voted Map even though he could have easily voted McMenno instead. But there wasn't much content before Menno's RVS, and I think his L-1 RVS, as well as your post after that, were more worthy of comment (yours because it was the first game-related opinion about another post). What do you think about this?

Also, are you townreading Map Wolf, since you don't agree with the cases on him? If so, why?

[BNL]

You said that DL voted Map even though he could have easily voted McMenno instead. But there wasn't much content before Menno's RVS, and I think his L-1 RVS, as well as your post after that, were more worthy of comment (yours because it was the first game-related opinion about another post). What do you think about this?

I feel like you're confused about what you were saying. DarkLight completely ignored McMenno's RVS (which was hardly any less late than MapWolf's RVS) in favour of pointing out MapWolf's and voting because of that. That reads like someone who's thought process was "find a reason why MapWolf is scum -> late RVS" rather than "late RVS ergo MapWolf is scum" because they paid no attention to Menno's equally late RVS. Got me? I'm also not entirely sure what you're asking

Hmm. I'd like to hear DL's defense at this point. (I meant to say that Map Wolf had more content to work with then Menno, but in retrospect I do agree it's still not *that* much for an ignore vs scumread)

[BNL]

Firebringer's posting always feels like his scum posting though

Define "Firebringer scum posting"
~Fire

You post stuff unrelated to the game. You do this both as scum and town, but much more as scum than town.

You (not including your buddy) have provided the least game advancing content so far, in fact this and quoted post are the only things I can consider as content from you. Do you have any reads/opinions/strategies on the game?

[BNL]

I am going to keep it low key today, because I am planning on not getting NK tonight.

Tell me why this is a plan for you?

[BNL]

Upon rereading, I realised that this is a townslip.

I'll take it with a pinch of salt with Dav... He's a sneaky one

Vedith

This stuck out to me.
Feels like he's leaving himself open to vote without offering an opinion.
Also some of the questions are pretty lackluster

"Feels like he's leaving himself open to vote without offering an opinion."
Sorry, I don't understand? Also, I can't see this under any interpretation.

[BNL]

farside is so scummy in this game.

Can we please pressure her?

~Fire

I don't see it. Explain?

[BNL]

@Fire
My "this seems like Fire scum posting" is just my gut feeling. I can't rigorously tell apart your town posting from scum posting, but I can feel it.

I can't see why Farside is scummy (and neither can anyone else), and I think your confidence on FS scum is BS (i.e. made up). That is why I asked you to explain your case so that I can see what you are seeing.

In this game, you were able to give a case on Elyse even though many people disagreed with you, and I still townread you for that. Here you can't even seem to make a case on Farside.

My scumread on Mohis is stronger now.

[BNL]

don't you love it when

the two scummiest players

everyone

basically stop posting so you can't really do much

i know i do

FTFY

[BNL]

Since the game has momentarily stalled and I can't produce new content, I would like to ask:

Everyone voting Map Wolf: Why not unvote since he is at L-1? Why not move to Mohis?

[BNL]

do you fear a self-hammering, bnl?

No, but I am more scared of a scum quickhammer (which is more of a problem in this setup than most others), and even genuine accidental hammers. I also find it weird when people do not unvote people at L-1 early game, as I consider it a town instinct to do so, especially early game.

Speaking of which, why do you talk about specifically self-hammering, rather than just normal hammering? This is a weird mentality and it is not normal to be the first type of hammer to pop in one's mind.

[BNL]

I still think Mohis is very scummy. Why aren't people voting them?

@Farside, why is Darklight scummier than Mohis?

[BNL]

So yeah this game has stalled too much. This game really needs more activity. If anyone has got questions i will be willing to answer them.

What's your read on Mohis?

[BNL]

Fire: I asked about your read on map.

He's already stated a townread on Map.
He hasn't elaborated on it though (or anyone else for that matter, other than maybe McMenno and you, and even so very briefly).

[BNL]

Farside is scum because I explained that.

Since when did you explain it?

[BNL]

Charloux: Ugh. There's a lot of scumminess going on here. He's spent most of the game going on about how he's lynchbait, and retracting what he's already said: "Ouch i made a mistake with posting." Seems to react intensely to even light pressure, but I'm guessing may be part of the whole lynchbait thing. 86 and 87 are bad. He's linking to games where he's been town and using them to justify that he's being lynchbait this time. The problem is that in many of those games he wasn't actually lynchbait as he himself describes. What bugs me more is that, given this loose description, why is he only bringing up town games? In Newbie 1713 he was "lynchbait" as scum day 1 to the point of self-hammering. Why is this not worthy of mention? It's like he's trying to appear town by hiding the possibility of him being scum, and that feels really really scummy. Overall: Scum

Now I'm starting to see why people are scumreading DarkLight.

Saying that Charloux was scummy due to talking about being lynchbait is a complete misrepresentation.

I can't see him pointing out his lynchbait games to justify himself being town this time. And saying that is scummy is complete nonsense; immediately before that post (85) Lane asked him for his lynchbait games. It isn't even fair to say any part of the lynchbait conversation was scummy because Lane kept talking to Charloux about him being lynchbait.

DLA added to scumlist.

[BNL]

I am null on DarkLight personally, but BNL, want to address me at all?
Like anything lately that you think is scummy?

~Fire

Only one question: Why were you scumreading farside? I can understand why you would scumread McMenno but I don't see the same for Farside. Please quote Farside's posts and explain what is scummy about them. Otherwise I want to say that you don't have a case at all.

[BNL]

Charloux: Ugh. There's a lot of scumminess going on here. He's spent most of the game going on about how he's lynchbait, and retracting what he's already said: "Ouch i made a mistake with posting." Seems to react intensely to even light pressure, but I'm guessing may be part of the whole lynchbait thing. 86 and 87 are bad. He's linking to games where he's been town and using them to justify that he's being lynchbait this time.

The problem is that in many of those games he wasn't actually lynchbait as he himself describes.

What bugs me more is that, given this loose description, why is he only bringing up town games? In Newbie 1713 he was "lynchbait" as scum day 1 to the point of self-hammering. Why is this not worthy of mention? It's like he's trying to appear town by hiding the possibility of him being scum, and that feels really really scummy. Overall: Scum

Now I'm starting to see why people are scumreading DarkLight.

Saying that Charloux was scummy due to talking about being lynchbait is a complete misrepresentation.

I can't see him pointing out his lynchbait games to justify himself being town this time. And saying that is scummy is complete nonsense; immediately before that post (85) Lane asked him for his lynchbait games. It isn't even fair to say any part of the lynchbait conversation was scummy because Lane kept talking to Charloux about him being lynchbait.

DLA added to scumlist.

How ironic that you misrepresent what I'm saying. As I bolded in my post, he was not lynchbait in many of these games. On the other hand, there was at least one scum game he could have pointed to as lynchbait but didn't.

I fully understand the context of the post and that he was asked to provide evidence of lynchbait. What seems scummy to me is that he took this request and didn't actually provide a list of lynchbait evidence. He instead produced a list of his town games. This seems highly sketchy to me.

Wow actually, I admit I haven't read the games that Charloux had posted, and some of them (like 1698) seem to be the complete contrary to what Charloux has described (it was a cop guilty claim, not an L-1 claim).

Nevertheless, I still think that Charloux was acting quite scummily in all those games, which is what I'll call lynchbait. It seems that we are not on the same terms here regarding what us lynchbait. What do you consider lynchbait?

Finally, are all the parts before what you bolded also meant to be scumpoints against Charloux?

[BNL]

When he said

-Farside is scum here, and
-more votes on Farside.

You gotta give him credit, I didn't pick up on that, but he makes good points. Will reread farside

I don't understand what you are trying to say here, given that you were consistently scumreading Mohis at this point.

[BNL]

And now that it's past halfway point, time to make my reads list...

I like Davsto for town. Most of his posts are filled with game-related content that I like, which signals town. He usually posts more fluff when he's scum. Only thing I didn't like was 67 (something something indirect defense, I can't think clearly...)

Lane is also town based on my feelings based on past experiences with him.

Mohis is my strongest scumread. Other than the Farside BS already mentioned, I also find posts such as 150 and 156 faked as they show strength in those reads, which is contrary to what is posted earlier (156: Vedith made the post, but it was Fire's scumread)

DarkLight is also a tentative scumread for now until I have my questions for him clarified.

Farside didn't leave an impression on me either way, so null. I have a very slight tingling townlean on her, but I feel that's because I keep talking to her knowing that she is very experienced.

Charloux, McMenno, and Map Wolf are all null. I just find it hard to read Charloux and McMenno due to their playstyle. (I know that logically, McMenno is scummy, but he posts in this manner consistently such that my instinct suppresses it and calls it null). Map Wolf is lurking too much to get a good read on, but I'll be fine with a compromise lynch on him as the Map X Mohis mutual townread is bugging me, especialy during that period where many people were scumreading him.

[BNL]

And yes i have not participated enough to blame anyone for voting me.

So if you're town, can you please participate more to show that...?

[BNL]

McMenno, can you tell me if this is your general play style in all your games? Can you link me some of your completed scum games?

I read a few of his town games (but couldn't find a scum one), and the general feeling I got is that he posted more in those games. Though I feel that it may be owing to the fact that the earlier part of the day was really slow.

[BNL]

Still waiting for DarkLight to respond to my questions.

[BNL]

I don't tunnel.

So what's with the new trend here?

I have no idea what your talking about.
I don't tunnel.

Why don't you give me a post I can actually read?

~Fire

Why are you tunnelling on me.
If you say you aren't I'll call you a liar right now.

I always feel players think I'm better then I think I am.

Hasn't Fire already claimed that his scumread on you was fake?

[BNL]

Something I just realised:

Map Wolf, since you're town reading Mohis, why are you still voting them?

[BNL]

Guys, I really don't like a MapWolf Lynch

~Fire

Why not?

[BNL]

Davsto, you remind me alot of Science mafia, and not in the good way mate.

~Fire

Davsto was town that game????

[BNL]

Something I just realised:

Map Wolf, since you're town reading Mohis, why are you still voting them?

I really don't have a strong read on him. My vote is on him because i haven't gone around to changing it. The "I don't think lynching Map Wolf is a good idea" without much given argumentation seems worrying.

Uh what? Why have you never bothered changing your vote? Is there anyone else in the game for you?

You seem to simply answer everyone's questions, without coming up with your own content (last one was here, then here). Your only reads were on Mohis and Davsto. Do you have any more?

[BNL]

Actually I could do this:
VOTE: DarklightA

I have townread on Map, not willing to lynch.

~Fire

Why vote DarkLight over McMenno, when you are scumreading McM but only nullreading DL, and when McM has a larger wagon than DL?

[BNL]

Actually I could do this:
VOTE: DarklightA

I have townread on Map, not willing to lynch.

~Fire

Please explain the town read.

I can't give you anymore than I gave you, it's what my gut told me. Anything else I say will be just fabricated buklshit

Is this gut feeling similar to your scumread on Farside?

[BNL]

VOTE: Map Wolf

Why the sudden hammer?

[BNL]

I think this is the reason dave was silenced:
VOTE: Darklight

I disagree, imo Davsto was obvtown such that his kill isn't linked to anyone in particular.

[BNL]

Welp, turns out I was wrong on all bases.

This seems like a weak entrance...

[BNL]

VOTE: Map Wolf

Why the sudden hammer?

^Please answer

[BNL]

...yes?

[BNL]

No

VOTE: farside

While you're here, what's this "No" in reference to?

[BNL]

Farside, why no bid for cop?

The ability goes to another player.
That means scum could get the info, seems useless in my view.

This is a slip.

JK is only useful in blocking the cop.

That's all. Therefore, when farside thinks cop "seems useless," why is she bidding for the item that blocks it? The only (sensible) reason for a town player to bid for JK is to prevent scum from getting it and blocking the cop role. Why would you be concerned enough about a cop block to bid 35 if you think the cop role "seems useless"?

JK stops scum and protects town.
If scum was lynched I'd use it to protect someone I was town reading like bnl.
If town was lynched then block scum read and hope for the best.
Unless you know who got the cop that seems like a stretch.

If scum is lynched, isn't it better to use it as a roleblocker as it becomes much more powerful as one scum is left?

[BNL]

What flop around?

I think it's more likely Charloux is scum. Didn't waste any time going straight for dark. Seems like a plan to setup an easy lynch. I don't think dark kills davsto knowing he'll get all the shade.

I'm not doing this Lynchbait crap

VOTE: charloux

Or, that's exactly what scum wanted me to think... The its so obvious it can't be right, but it really is right, scenario. Shit.

Can you read #404 properly?

[BNL]

I feel like that NK is an obvious let's lynch dark moment.
I really don't care for dark's entrance into day.

I'm going to reread a few things to see if I'm missing something

You think Davsto would be the prime target for Dark, over say me who said lets lynch them the other day?
Now explain this more, cause this isn't adding up.

~~~~fire

Dav was more vocal.

I think as scum you wouldn't vote someone you'd been wking all game.

I disagree, this is what Fire does as scum.

In Science Mafia (read till end of Day 2 from given link), Fire (as Fire Assassin) constantly expresses dislike towards the Ranger wagon. Then after a while, he decides to hammer Ranger because 'game wasn't progressing'. He was scum. (Actually Ranger had been hammered earlier, but him hammering was scummy so it was not to his benefit to 'hammer' again).

Contrast Queen Mafia. Fire (also as Fire Assassin) townreads Postie who is constantly at L-1/2, it is near deadline, and yet he is not willing to lynch Postie, instead voting a secondary scumread Aristophanes. He was town.

VOTE: My Other Head Is Scum (Was planning to do this yesterday but had to delete my post due to compromise)

[BNL]

This exact same thing with the exact wording happened in the last game
I bet it will end with me getting lynched again. PLEASE don't let them win this! We have a cop tonight, check one of them!

What are you referring to with "this" (at the start of the post)?

[BNL]

I don't understand what's scummy about 380

[BNL]

The more BNL keeps pushing this read off one game the more I don't believe the read.
Hmmmmmmmmmm


~~~Fire

More? One game? I used two games as examples and I haven't done this the rest of this game yet?

[BNL]

I hammered because we needed a lynch and I wasn't lynching Mohis

Why no intent even?

[BNL]

This exact same thing with the exact wording happened in the last game
I bet it will end with me getting lynched again. PLEASE don't let them win this! We have a cop tonight, check one of them!

Please link the game, and to that exact post if possible.

[BNL]

Yeah I just realized that it narrows the reads done.

What do you mean it "narrows the reads done"?

[BNL]

Please link the game, and to that exact post if possible.

This isn't game relevant, so i kindly refuse.

I don't even know what post you're referring to with "the exact same wording".

Do you think that because the situation is similar (to idk what), DarkLight is likely scum? If you do, it's game relevant.

[BNL]

Also from 486 you said it was a joke, but it seemed that you wanted to use it as real evidence to push DarkLight.

[BNL]

Yeah I just realized that it narrows the reads done.

What do you mean it "narrows the reads done"?

Jailing someone you are scum reading makes more sense with 1 scum left because if you are scum reading 2 players and someone that is not you dies, the other is more likely scum.

Why did you "just realise" it? Aren't you experienced enough to know that JK is much more powerful as a RB than a Doc with one scum left?

[BNL]

Darklight has been prodded.

Really? This is really all I'm waiting for right now

Also, UNVOTE: Mohis.

I felt that I was too tunneled on Fire yesterday, and upon rereading his ISO, I felt that I may have mistook his scum meta. (I thought it had to do with unexplained reads for some reason, but I really think it's to do with fluff posting). I still don't like the townread L-1 vote, but I feel I have to accept that Fire Assassin has a different personality. Also Vedith hasn't been scummy much (if at all), while Fire hasn't been scummy today.

I will be ready to vote again when Darklight returns and responds to my posts. (If he gets replaced, then...)

[BNL]

My instinct to Chara's first posts is that I feel they're genuine (town).

Some questions:
I have a hard time reading McMenno, and after you explained to Charloux I still don't understand. What is town about #220?

[BNL]

Also 513 is another post which

really

makes me want to lynch Mohis...

[BNL]

Charloux, still scumreading Chara?

[BNL]

My instinct to Chara's first posts is that I feel they're genuine (town).

Some questions:
I have a hard time reading McMenno, and after you explained to Charloux I still don't understand. What is town about #220?

it's difficult to explain, being more of a tonal/feel read than a logical one. 220 looks like town due to the matter-of-factness of it. scum might (not saying they would always, but) feel the need to explain more about the read. or even, do more than simply say what i feel is exactly what happened. Mcmenno saw some towny posts, some scummy posts, etc. so didn't come out with an exceptionally strong read either way. but, didn't go out of his way to point out these facts as though he is trying to fling suspicion on Charloux without giving a stance. just giving honest thoughts. i don't know how else to explain it, if i'm still not making sense to you.

again, not a very strong read.

how do you feel about McMenno's comment towards me when i replaced in, and his comment toward Charloux? he told both of us 'i don't want to lynch you today'.

Also 513 is another post which

really

makes me want to lynch Mohis...

i didn't have a problem with that post in particular. Mohis has other bad posts, such as the ones before and directly after the Map Wolf lynch. what did you think of those? i remember there being others, i would have to go looking.

You say that your read on McMenno isn't very strong, but "McMenno is town. or i'm reading him very badly." seems to suggest otherwise. Explain?

I find McMenno's comments null, they just don't strike me either way.

513 is one of the posts that is Fire's nonsense posting which I associate with his scum posting (though I'm not sure of the truth about this), which is why it pinged me. I do agree though that some of his other posts were worse though, like the L-1 vote on Map Wolf (his townread).

[BNL]

Also, leaning town on Charloux.

[BNL]

Not Chara's looking even more town now.

@Lane do you have any other townreads?

[BNL]

Yes we can,

@all Town reading Charloux. Why town?

527 same thought process as me
532 read reavaluation and elaborate explaination
Also the joke in 520 is town

Your scumread on Charloux seems to be predicated on Dark/Chara being set-up as a mislynch, but your townread on that slot has diminished. How does that affect your read on Charloux?

[BNL]

i ended up looking through Charloux to see what caused me to put a townread there.
i didn't find anything. and the lack of followup on my answer about McMenno doesn't look great either.

their readslist is fine reads wise, i'm not sure about the reasoning.

remind me who else said they were townreading Charloux?

Why do you read people based on their reads (and not just the reasoning the reasoning behind those reads only)?

[BNL]

Also just remembered that McMenno's still voting farside, although he had never explained it...

McMenno, explain the scumread?

[BNL]

what you find towny about Charloux is not particularly indicative. is the read strong?

No, my townread on Charloux is just a town lean, not strong at all.

i ended up looking through Charloux to see what caused me to put a townread there.
i didn't find anything. and the lack of followup on my answer about McMenno doesn't look great either.

their readslist is fine reads wise, i'm not sure about the reasoning.

remind me who else said they were townreading Charloux?

Why do you read people based on their reads (and not just the reasoning the reasoning behind those reads only)?

that's a strange question. who said i was reading Charloux based on what their reads were? all i said was that there weren't any glaring issues with the reads themselves.
the reasoning is what i noted as disliking.

You are misunderstanding my question. I'm trying to ask you why you are considering Charloux's actual reads at all, instead of focusing on only the explanation of those reads. From how you're scumhunting it sounds like you could get a read off someone based on just his reads and if they seem really off, you will scumread them without regard for their reasoning. (I know this is hard to understand, and I've done my best to clarify this as much as I can, but even then it may be unclear)

[BNL]

hey I'm ew farside too

also prodge

Also just remembered that McMenno's still voting farside, although he had never explained it...

McMenno, explain the scumread?

[BNL]

625: i take someone's reads into account, along with the reasoning. it's just another aspect of a player to look at. i believe i understand what you're trying to say. i wouldn't look at someone's 'bad reads' and say they're scum if i could understand the reasoning behind them. and 'good reads' might have terrible reasoning, which could indicate scum who know the alignments of players and so don't need to think deeply about how they come to those reads.
but this discussion is largely irrelevant to the game. it's about theory. you're making a lot of broad assumptions about me as a player based on a throwaway line, don't you think?

Thanks for clarifying. I was asking you this because I believe reading someone based on his reads at all is a wrong way of scumhunting, and could therefore be fake, so I needed you to convince me that there exists a POV that doing so could be correct. I do admit it does detract quite some bit from the game.

[BNL]

Since we are 3 days left to deadline (or rather we

were

at 3 days), I should summarise my reads now:

Townread on farside22, Not Chara and Charloux in that order from strongest to weakest. Lane has moved down as I didn't really like his overreaction to farside's attack on him, especially since he has stated to have a townread on her.

I'm not really getting much from MOHIS today, but I remember having a strong scumread on him yesterday especially due to his Map Wolf vote, so I will go with that read. McMenno is still a hard null for me, but in light of my other reads I will call him scum by virtue of everyone else being town.

VOTE: My Other Head Is Scum

L-2

By the way, why is everyone so lurky?

[BNL]

I'm still going for Charloux. I think the town reads arent even considering scum and I don't know why. I'll look in one of the people town reading the slot, so everyone.

If you think Charloux is scum, why did you hammer Mohis, and without intent?

[BNL]

Charloux read Game Specific Rules 3K in the OP

[BNL]

I'm still going for Charloux. I think the town reads arent even considering scum and I don't know why. I'll look in one of the people town reading the slot, so everyone.

If you think Charloux is scum, why did you hammer Mohis, and without intent?

My read on Charloux is irrelevant.

Mohis was a scum read.

Why would I claim intent? He already claimed everything he could. I thought his "just hammer me" was a bluff.

What if someone had a tracker/roleblocker inno on Mohis? (It's not a 100% inno, but still

something

)

[BNL]

In light of Mohis' townflip, Not Chara's going back into my scumpool.

[BNL]

How about we massclaim "Got Cop result" or "No Cop result"?

If someone got a Cop result, we have a cop inno. Otherwise, scum got the cop, and players who have insufficient money are less likely to be scum. In particular, farside and everyone who has at least $52 left can't contain both members of the scumteam.

[BNL]

??? Can you explain that more clearly?

[BNL]

I mean, "got the cop" = result or gift?

[BNL]

BNL, you were with us on the MOHIS wagon. why did your read on me flip like that?

Yesterday I thought that if Mohis was town you are likely scum for voting him with weak reasons. I thought it was more likely that Mohis was scum then, but today we know he's town.

[BNL]

I asked the mod to see if there was an error.
The best I understood it, role bid action don't go through a jk.
So it's possible that Lane did send me the results.

Well, it seems that the JK is Roleblocker + Rolestopper, rather than the standard Roleblocker + Doctor...

Jailkeeper-

You may target a player at night. Any action taken

by or to

this target will fail (including a night kill).

[BNL]

wait. you did. why did i get confused by that.
you're actually confirmed town unless you were pulling a gambit to kill your partner and claim credit, which i very much doubt. or if farside is scum and McMenno blocked her kill, which i doubt.

Hmm, I actually didn't realise that! So if farside is town, McMenno is town due to block (unless gambit), Charloux is town due to kill being on player gifted the bomb (unless super gambit), which leaves Not Chara and Lane for scum...

Lemme think a bit. I feel that NC pointing this town out it towny, so there are some possibilities:
1. NC is actually scum and is trying to gain towncred out of this. Or
2. Farside is scum by contradiction. I think farside is obvtown, but I don't really have reasoning on this. Will need to reread.

[BNL]

So if we can be sure that farside is town, there are potential breaking strategies as we have 3 clears (barring gambits) but no mislynch unless we gain one with the BP or PGO.

Ideally we can get the BP and PGO on two different clears and the third watches the BP, which maximises our opportunities for catching scum. BP should visit unconfirmed.

So all I need to consider now are:
-Farside's alignment
-The viability of McMenno's and Charloux's gambits as scum (and who's scum between Lane/Chara in this case)

[BNL]

Side note: I've asked the mod, the bulletproof can only die if he visits the pgo AND gets killed by the Mafia (barring Watcher actions)

[BNL]

Why the hell aren't we considering scum Gambits for town cred? I find that to be highly viable, including a no kill situation.

I'm not dropping my Charloux read. I learned my lesson about doing that.

So are you saying that you think Charloux's gift to farside is null, and you are scumreading him for other reasons?

[BNL]

That just shows me he did it for town cred. And trying to get others to believe he's town for doing it

I think that if he wanted towncred from the gambit, he would have gotten his partner to point him out as confirmed town instead of pointing it out himself.

[BNL]

Exactly, which is why you should be considering it.

I think they are. Pointing out ridiculous reasons why you can't be scum makes me think you're scum

Do you think his gift to Farside is a "ridiculous reason"?

[BNL]

BNL/lane is just. it's a weird scumteam.

what i don't see is scum lane fake-claiming to have given the cop to farside, who was jailkept. there's no reason to do it. it doesn't really give him towncred, and it gives him no reasoning/leverage to make the pushes he would want to as scum.

So Lane isn't scummy, but why is he town?

[BNL]

I'm think bnl/lane more likely do to very little interaction.

I remember having quite a lot of interaction with Lane?

[BNL]

Turns out I didn't have the time to reread Farside, but doesn't matter, Lane/NC seems like quite a plausible scumteam right now.

There are three likely towns due to them believing (or rather claiming to believe) Farside is town, yet they are finding reasons to not push each other.

[BNL]

BNL/lane is just. it's a weird scumteam.

what i don't see is scum lane fake-claiming to have given the cop to farside, who was jailkept. there's no reason to do it. it doesn't really give him towncred, and it gives him no reasoning/leverage to make the pushes he would want to as scum.

So Lane isn't scummy, but why is he town?

i've already explained this?

Turns out I didn't have the time to reread Farside, but doesn't matter, Lane/NC seems like quite a plausible scumteam right now.

There are three likely towns due to them believing (or rather claiming to believe) Farside is town, yet they are finding reasons to not push each other.

what does that last sentence mean. i explained my entire thought process above.

pedit: true, but we're in mylo. i'd think looking town and lynching scum here is more important than possibly looking suspicious the next day because you failed and your partner got lynched.
but, i see your point. it's not as implausible as i thought.

Since you are townreading Farside, you should have Lane/Me as the scumteam as farside/McMenno/Charloux are clear.

Okay, I shall challenge you. Why is Lane more likely town (due to your own reasons) than McMenno is town (due to having saved Farside)?

[BNL]

Just a few notes is I do see where bnl calls lane town and there is some questions and responses back and forth.
Day 2 lane is a scum read but votes mohis.

Where as nc. Lane has defended the spot since day 1, day 2 nc attacks the spot but seems satisfied with lane's response.
Defending lane today.
Lane attacking only Charlo and no one else.


Lane: who is scum with Charlo and why?

Lane was town moving down to null on Day 2, whereas Mohis was a scumread.

[BNL]

I've asked several times why Charloux is town. I don't feel the need to answer your question, or the need to try to figure it out right now. I don't care who is Charloux's partner. There are several options. When he flips scum basically every is a possibility. Finding his partner isn't important to me because it doesn't matter who his partner is if he's not lynched now does it.

What if the rest of us refuse to lynch Charloux today?

[BNL]

Bids submitted.

[BNL]

the first post is updated to have six 'living' players left, but i'm still listed as darklight. harsh, mod. ;>

looking at the final votes when yesterday's lynch was achieved... my best picks for scum are Charloux and BNL. farside is obvious town and, while i'm unsure about lane, i feel better about him after our interactions. if farside is town, McMenno is 90% town.
that's process of elimination.

1. Charloux was not voting Mohis, so why were you scumreading him pre-claim?
2. What do you think of Lane's vote on Mohis? I admit that I didn't advance my Mohis scumread much at that point, but neither did Lane.

When you get back, respond to 779 too please.

[BNL]

@Lane: What do you think of McMenno's potential gambit?

[BNL]

why not bnl

Do you have actual reasons for scumreading me? This "you first" suggests otherwise.

[BNL]

Lynching farside today isn't a good idea IMO unless we think farside is scum (which I don't). A mislynch through Farside is instant loss, while if we mislynch normally we still have multiple chances to maintain parity and not lose yet.

[BNL]

@Not Chara: You were already townreading Farside earlier in the Day, so why did you dismiss McMenno as town only now and not in 758? (I know I've talked to you on 758 already but your 809 makes me suspicious of it again)

[BNL]

McMenno was already town, i was simply re-iterating.

if a farside mislynch would be instant loss even if scum is the hammerer, we shouldn't do it.

770. Ok, I see you call McMenno town, but at the same time you doubt Lane being scum and end up with Me/Lane and Me/McMenno as possible scumteams. Explain?

No, scum hammering Farside won't cause an instant loss, only town hammering town Farside will. By "lynch through Farside" I meant forcing that person to hammer Farside.

[BNL]

no, it's cause he's scum

VOTE: bnl

choo choo

I only said that I think that forcing someone to hammer farside instead of lynching them directly was a bad idea in general, and not a self-defense specifically.

[BNL]

i called them both town there but had precious few options. that was why i was suspicious of farside in the first place. PoE trumps everything.

Lucky, i will be V/LA until Saturday, whenever you happen to see this.

Ok, thanks for clarifying.

[BNL]

VOTE: lane0168

Did a thorough read through and pretty convinced that this is scum now. There is one scum in {Farside, Charloux, Lane}, and one in {McMenno, Not Chara} FMPOV. Charloux is a solid townread, and I've read through to make sure that Farside/McMenno and Farside/Not Chara aren't scum teams, and besides, I'm townreading her D3 play too. (For example, her unvote in 838 doesn't make sense as scum).

On the other hand, Lane is really scummy now, primarily regarding his tunnel on Charloux, which seems really contrived and fake at this point. There are other reasons, but my top two townreads and one top scumread in that pool is sufficient for me to vote Lane.

[BNL]

Only interaction i see bnl and lane was day 1.
Bnl didn't say much in regards to nc/lane interaction.
He's pushed more on nc then lane for questions.

Charlo: I'd like to see your scum reads other then lane.

??? I remember having a lot of interaction with lane Today

I've been reconsidering my scumteam of Lane/NC. Ftr, I think NC/Lane interactions at NC's entrance could be scum/scum interactions. Yes, distancing, and Lane looked more agitated when responding to you than to NC.

That's because I'm more confident on my read on Lane than NC, so I see more of a need to try to understand NC than to understand Lane.

Can you go back to voting Lane? If you're town and Charloux is town (you're townreading Charloux, and so am I), Lane must be scum, otherwise the scumteam would have hammered Lane already.

[BNL]

Speaking of my weakening scumread of NC...

Yeah, I'm rethinking. It's between NC and McMenno. On one hand, McMenno protecting Farside should clear him as town due to stopping scum's nightkill (unless a gambit).

On the other hand, I see NC towning up a lot more, and at the same time McMenno is so scummy I can hardly ignore it. Seriously, look at his D3 iso, it looks like he's not even trying, and there's some filler too. Really McMenno's claim is the only thing stopping me from saying McMenno scum NC town, so it looks like I really need to consider the viability of the gambit.

Really this is unimportant right now, I want to lynch Lane today and think about this tomorrow, and hopefully we can get a few more clears by then.

[BNL]

I do have other reasons.

Firstly, PoE. I'm townreading Farside and Charloux.

@Lane: What do you think of McMenno's potential gambit?

I think it's a potential gambit.

You clearly weren't trying with this answer.

So is mylo right? What we can assume is there is probably 1 scum on me, and 1 scum between bnl, NC, and mcmenno

Sudden change of attitude also seems fake.

VOTE: Charloux guess I never realized it wasn't, not that it matters with zero support

You admit that Charloux isn't getting lynched today, so why don't you agree to compromise for a lesser scumread? Your vote is useless otherwise. why not make it useful?

I also got bad vibes from 764.

You are scum, so if McMenno is scum you are the other. That's why I'm lynching you.

Also may I know why it's scummy trying to survive, since it's mylo?

[BNL]

VOTE: no lynch

Wow nice quickhammer and scumclaim

[BNL]

Oops my bad. I assumed that NL was one less than the lynch threshold at evens. Checking the rules, you're right.

[BNL]

@Mod how does redirector work? Anyone who targets Target 1 targets Target 2 instead, or all Target 1's actions target Target 2 regardless of who they intended?

[BNL]

There's a breaking strategy either way, farside please don't hammer until this is sorted.

[BNL]

Briefly, in the former case, we use Cop+Redir as Cop+Doc to sort Me/NC, while in the second case, we redir Me/NC onto each other. Only conftown gets the PRs. Will elaborate later.

[BNL]

That variant is even easier.

As long as conftown gets the redirector, he can redirect me onto you (or vice versa) and announce it.

[BNL]

I'm fine with a massclaim. I'd like NC to claim their results first, as I believe this will force them to fakeclaim, but otherwise I'm fine claiming any time.

[BNL]

H. Role powers last during the following night phase and forfeited at the beginning of the next day phase. Unless specified otherwise.

Farside: We can't save powers from yesterday to tonight.

[BNL]

Also I realised a problem with the breaking strategy from yesterday, scum can no kill

This is still workable, however. NC has no money left (if they're fakeclaiming, someone can counterclaim), I can promise to not bid anything today and let Farside and Charloux the Conftowns take all the PRs. Guarentees 100% town win.

[BNL]

Since Farside has claimed NC can claim effectively so I am OK with claiming now:
I bought the BP last night and gave it to Charloux. Bought nothing the first two nights.

[BNL]

I'd say Farside is conftown.

Yesterday You and McMenno were voting me. If Farside was scum, I'd expect Farside and Lane to have quickhammered me, which gives 2/3 chance of success as Farside could block one of PGO/BP, leaving only 1/3 chance of hitting those roles, and probably can guess people who aren't protected too (non-conf), and even failing that, they still have a decent chance of winning LyLo.

OK so Farside isn't conftown due to the protectives, but at least 99% chance town.

[BNL]

And the whole breaking strategy revolved around Farside and Charloux being conftown

[BNL]

I didn't buy the Redirector; I bid on completely nothing last night.

@Farside: Are you saying that you didn't get the redirector?

[BNL]

That's 27 on redir.

Tell me what the significance of 23 and 27 are. It was pretty obvious what everyone had yesterday.

Also if you don't retract the no redir claim I'm voting you in my next post, this is your last chance if you're gambiting town.

[BNL]

Right now I'm trying to figure out if bnl would target someone other the nc if he's town.
If so Charlo death.........
He could lie about what he did to in regards to what he did.....
Thinking

Also Farside forgot this:

Also I realised a problem with the breaking strategy from yesterday, scum can no kill

This is still workable, however. NC has no money left (if they're fakeclaiming, someone can counterclaim), I can promise to not bid anything today and let Farside and Charloux the Conftowns take all the PRs. Guarentees 100% town win.

[BNL]

I'm town.

Will catch up later.

[BNL]

Farside, you wanted Charloux to redirect Chara onto me yesterday. What made you change your mind?

[BNL]

2. What was the point of your gambit?

[BNL]

2. What was the point of your gambit?

CuriousIty?

Nah I'm joking, I just thought I'd see how nc reacted when I claimed cop.
Like their reaction, what they would do. I was surprised they held firm to there question. They even asked about if you had bid on the item.
Why they didn't believe me is a mystery I have no reason to lie in lylo without verification and it's suicide to do.

But what exactly does the gambit achieve, since you had Chara as scum 100%?

[BNL]

3. Have you ever considered that I might've voted you immediately upon counterclaiming you, causing a town loss?

[BNL]

Prodge.

Currently leaning scum on farside. I starting to think farside said is conceivable, but not to the point where she's townier than Chara.

764: How can you be so careless as town?

[BNL]

No, I'm not going to throw a game just because it's your birthday.

I think you're scum. For your present, how about not getting hammered for one day? That'll be postponed to tomorrow.

[BNL]

Also I haven't reread the game yet, but I haven't and won't have time to do so, but if I end up doing so, maybe I'll change my mind about you.

But I probably won't. Your "gambit" looks fake.

[BNL]

OK, I've made up my mind.

VOTE: farside22

It was a hard decision, reading the thread again, Dark was pretty scummy and Lane's interactions seems to suggest Not Chara more than Farside scum. But I really find it hard to imagine Farside town here, I think town!Farside would have explained the point of the gambit upon claim retraction, instead of having me to push her for it, and furthermore, she's being AtEing the game by saying "Did I just lose because I messed up"

[BNL]

*crosses fingers*

[BNL]

Oooooh yesss another win!

[BNL]

Farside I think you could've won this one easily. Even with the D3 quickhammer mishap, D5 you could've just claimed a redir guilty on Not Chara (or me). But bidding 48 on redir shows a clear plan to frame me, so when I threatened you to retract your claim, you should've persisted and continue CCing me, and even vote me. Switching plans is a really bad idea.

[BNL]

Mod are PTs being released?