Mini 1840: Watch Dogs Blitz [Game Over]

[Aquanim]

sup everyone

I've got a lot of thread to read, so if anybody wants to give me some pointers to what's important to read first I'd like to hear it.

[Aquanim]

sup everyone

I've got a lot of thread to read, so if anybody wants to give me some pointers to what's important to read first I'd like to hear it.

Gamma was lynched yesterday and flipped town. I hammered Gamma, but I said yesterday that he was town but a mislynch is better for town due to information gained than a no lynch.

D2 starts:
1. Creature has a guilty on Stargazers
2. There was no NK
3. Stargazers claims they blocked me and suggested that why there was no NK and that Creature's investigation was redirected by some unknown force
4. There's been no additional blocking reports

ok, thanks

Aquarium, so you need the day to catch up or is the 24 hours tonight enough?

I'd prefer nobody hammers at this time, if that's what you're asking - I'd like to be up to date before the day ends. I shouldn't need all 60-odd hours for that, though.

[Aquanim]

blehhhhh

That's a pretty silly gambit, but I don't have a feeling yet for how likely it is that Not Chara gets lynched tomorrow/soon if they don't do something dramatic. Or more importantly, what Not Chara believes about that.

For the record, I'm from Australia so my timezone and periods of activity will be different to most of you (which is more important in a blitz).

[Aquanim]

lane: i'll happily vote stargazers as soon as Aquanim catches up and gives thoughts. are you caught up?

I'm not caught up yet, should be in under 12 hours.

[Aquanim]

Aquanim. what didn't you like about my gambit with Stargazers and Infinity?
though, i wouldn't call it a gambit. gambits need to be risky.

Perhaps 'stunt' is a better description than 'gambit'. In either case, the most likely reason I can think of as to why you would do that as scum is because you strongly believed you would be lynched otherwise.

I don't know what you expected to get out of it, because it's inherently unbelievable. A Traitor would not claim to all of the scumteam at once, which I think any of the three players you PMd would work out, so it's not like you were going to get a scum-claim in reply.

(That being said, I don't see an obvious reason why you would be less likely to think that through if you were mafia, as opposed to town.)

[Aquanim]

all of the scumteam at once?
how would these players know what i messaged to the others?
i'm pretty sure Infinity was the only player online.

it's possible Stargazers wrote a post in the scum PT about it, but... Infinity's reply was nearly immediate. i doubt he knew what i said to you and Stargazers. i'm very comfortable with that townread. i got good use out of it for that.

so, unless you're scumclaiming, (i mean, it's possible... haha) Stargazers is the only scum player i claimed to.
what i'm wondering is why, in 2379, you didn't say 'Chara claimed traitor to me as well'? did you assume that the rest of the thread would just figure it out?

I suppose the other two messages except the ones each of us received could have been blinds, as far as any one of the three players you sent a message to knew at the time.

I agree that Infinity would have to be a pretty quick-thinking scum player to react as he did that quickly.

(And yes, I assumed that the thread would figure it out. I thought that it was implied earlier, maybe I just read what I already knew into it.)

[Aquanim]

...
Actually can we end this day already instead of faffing about

I'm up-to-date enough to approve the Stargazers lynch. Besides the PR stuff, a town player does not post #2292 and the following posts on that page. Unless somebody has something they want to ask me, I don't think further conversation today is very useful.

[Aquanim]

{dunn, panther, sly}. I haven't given anybody in particular a hard look yet though, or thought about association at all, so that is subject to change.

[Aquanim]

well. that's one way to say 'i'm not committed to these reads'.

Yeah, I'm not.

why is dunn scum?

I don't have a case at this time.

why did Stargazers attempt to guilty their partner?

They were probably dead anyway, why not distance?

[Aquanim]

i'll rephrase. why did you put dunn in your list? why Panther? what put them there.

I'm not super-impressed by their activity and posts in general, and they were on the Gamma wagon. I don't have specifics now, I've read the game through once and found out what happened but that's about it. If I go back and reread and decide their attitude to Gamma came from a town mindset, I'll reassess.

[Aquanim]

Creature that's not an answer to my question dude.

Do you want to pursue this before the lynch?

[Aquanim]

Creature that's not an answer to my question dude.

Do you want to pursue this before the lynch?

are you planning on voting Stargazers at some point?
...

Yeah, but you were having a conversation. If you're both done, I'll hammer.

[Aquanim]

Well, that answers that.

VOTE: Stargazers

[Aquanim]

@SlySly

: Can you summarise why you scumread Lane on D1 in a few sentences?

@Expedience

: I think you had a meta read against Panther at some point, can you elaborate on that?

@Dunnstral

: Why did you move back off the Panther wagon onto Gamma in #1311?

@Panther

: Can you summarise why you scumread my slot on D1 in a few sentences?

[Aquanim]

@Dunnstral: Why did you move back off the Panther wagon onto Gamma in #1311?

I explained why in that post

Are you saying that reason caused you to scumread him more than Panther again?

[Aquanim]

You're wasting your time questioning me

that's nice

[Aquanim]

...
Counter-question: Why do you think House thought Mathblade was town?

Math claimed PR to House in a private message. House also said he townread Math for #64, I'm guessing based on previous games the two of them had played together.

[Aquanim]

VOTE: aquanim

I think this is scum too. I think I remember some super awful defense of stargazers about believing the roleblocker because they said good morning Vietnam and something something roleblocker

Wasn't that Mathblade?

[Aquanim]

okiedokie
VOTE: PantherPunt

[Aquanim]

yeah ok I'm done, gonna go back to Normals now

I concede, gg

my reads would have been shitty if I were town too; catching up on 90 pages in a blitz timeframe is no joke, making reads without talking to anybody first is not my way, and talking to people when there's a guilty on the table is a waste of time

VOTE: Aquanim

[Aquanim]

Let's hammer this win home already boys.

if only you had an iPhone to make me hated

[Aquanim]

bad time to give up. it's one thing for scum to hammer themselves when they're not the last scum, but ending it at this point leaves a bad taste in my my mouth. fight until the end, next time.

This entire game's left a bad taste in my mouth, really. I have to admit that the possibility of you actually being a Traitor didn't cross my mind... then again, neither did Dunn having a gamebreaking item, I figured it was a Doctor protect or something.

Not shooting Creature was some combination of the possibility he was 1-shot, knowing Math had a PR, and the probability that Creature was protected anyway.

Even with the Traitor, I don't really see us having any kind of legitimate chance of finding the requisite mislynches here. I mean... Creature and Grapevine are out, Lane getting on the Sly wagon d1 with Star was incredibly unlikely, there's no way Dunnstral-scum would have used that item like that. Expedience and Sly were vaguely possible, but with you gunning for my hide...

Honestly, I conceded to give a possible (though unlikely) third party the best possible chance to win - a town which lynches Gamma and shoots Infinity doesn't get many marks from me.

[Aquanim]

Creature's

role

carried, anyway...

[Aquanim]

Trying super-hard to lynch the person you believe to be your last remaining partner didn't really telegraph Traitor to me, to be honest.

[Aquanim]

Not shooting Creature was some combination of the possibility he was 1-shot, knowing Math had a PR, and the probability that Creature was protected anyway.

Every game, some Cop or 'confirmed town' avoids being killed solely because scum WIFOM themselves and end up making bad decisions for it.
...

I mean, we shot another full investigative PR that night, so <shrug>

[Aquanim]

what did the scumteam think about their failed night 1 kill? i was expecting messages about it that i never got. did you think i had been doctor protected?

House found a PR slip from GuiltyLion (presumably based on your fakeclaim), I don't know what anybody else thought but I guessed you were one-shot bulletproof.

[Aquanim]

Again I apologize to the scum team if they feel cheated .
If i were to do it again I would definitely have weakened the cop and give the scum more hacks to steal away powers.

meh, I replaced into a theme game with explicitly dubious balance of my own free will

Learned my lesson and won't be doing it again, but not really your fault

it's frustrating. first time playing traitor, obviously, and i don't have enough trust in my own reads. i should have gone all in on my best guess for scum, but i decided to play it safe and try and do something silly.

pedit: and... a town one-shot bulletproof would let the town run around in circles wondering about the lack of a nightkill because...?

I had no guarantee you'd have been aware that your power caused the lack of a kill. Once again, not really a Theme player over here. I took the replacement because I endorse Blitz and this game appeared to really badly need somebody.

I think the double replacement on the scumteam hurt us a lot and contributed to the impression of "apathy", House had a lot of momentum that got totally killed by a two-day absence followed by a replacement with far less scum/theme experience and meta knowledge.

[Aquanim]

i wasn't made aware that my power worked or not. just that my shot had been used up.

but, for future reference. it's bad form as town BP to mislead the town about the lack of a nightkill. if there was no kill, and you're a BP, and you were being townread going into night (makign you the target for a scumkill)... then the lack of kill was probably your fault. and the town should know about it.
mitigated somewhat by the existence of the Last Will mechanic.

I was not under the impression your slot was widely townread going into night. Perhaps I was wrong.

Basically, at the time it happened, the scumteam at that time had no reason (as a 3-man scumteam) to assume there was a Traitor, and by the time it became clear just how town-sided the setup was without another anti-town player there was only myself and Panther left, and we were flat-out trying to keep up with the game after replacing and finding a way to salvage something from the mess.

The last will mechanic is a pretty crazy power multiplier on town PRs as well... and that's not even getting into ways to abuse the messaging mechanic, although House did made that work for scum as well.

[Aquanim]

I don't really do hydras, sorry. Having to convince my own slot to do something would drive me insane, and I mostly only play Normals anyway.

I was only convinced the setup was truly wacky by d4 with the night-cancel, and by then it was too late to do anything (the only practical way to do anything about the Traitor would have been for one of the doomed players to message you... even that might have been problematic, since you'd have had to reply for us to know, would we even necessarily trust you, and what were you doing messaging a redcheck?). For that matter, I still wasn't certain Creature was a full cop until d4, bluffing more shots than you actually have is a common investigative PR play and something like having two one-shot cop-check items sounded entirely plausible. Bodyguard + Follower + 1-shot Bulletproof (or somebody protecting you because Lion claimed to them, or you getting offensive JK'd, and your holding some weaksauce role like Motion Detector) + random items (2-shot Cop, 1-shot Vig, some random loved and similarly useless stuff) didn't sound like a totally unworkable setup, especially if the mod misjudged how effective hacking was going to be for scum (and it's not an obvious mechanic to judge).

Anyway, apologies if my concession screwed up anybody's game.

I feel pretty bad about it, and you should not expect another from me in the future; in a game I understood I would fight it out, if the problem were just avoiding getting lynched, but the whole "your team is all dead to night actions you had no way to stop by the time you joined the game, and nope you don't even get to have a night cycle to think things through" thing tilted the hell out of me.

A single greencheck on Sly or Expedience from Creature, or my getting Watched by the item from the vault when I tried to shoot Creature (I was very confident based on their names that one of the items in play was a Watch) was going to end the game in any event.

[Aquanim]

the whole "your team is all dead to night actions you had no way to stop by the time you joined the game, and nope you don't even get to have a night cycle to think things through" thing tilted the hell out of me.

EBWOP: I am a Normal player, and lacking the skill to do otherwise I tried to play like I would in a Normal and hoped for the best. For me, the above is an Outside Context Problem.

Eh, enough whinging. TTFN. Or TTFE, maybe this is the time I finally convince myself to quit Mafia for good. God damn I hate this game... it's just that the high from being right as town is unfortunately addictive.

[Aquanim]

Oh, one last thing: this would have been my last will but Firebringer missed the PM.

...
2. Firebringer was too shortsighted to realize giving everyone a PT with everyone else for texting would have the ideal way to do the same thing.

I think Firebringer is just chuffed that I thought of the way better, hassle-free approach of just making a bunch of PTs.
It's okay to be jelly, FB.

-V

Alternatively, Firebringer realised that this would require 78 separate private topics.