Micro 642: Auction Mafia TOWN WINS!

[Not Chara]

hello everyone.

i'll catch up when i get the chance. it shouldn't take very long. let me know if you have anything you want my attention for.

[Not Chara]

Jeez, I forgot my hydra partner is V/LA
I don't know what to talk about in this game anymore.

Like game is pretty dead activity wise.

Ohh Hi Not Chara btw
nice to see you again.

I think you replaced into possible scum slot though.

~Fire

hello Firebringer!

hello not chara what's your alignment

and hello to you as well.
to both of you: i'm town.
McMenno, do you have any

better

questions?

i'm reading up at the moment. but we may as well chat here too. is there anyone i should be paying special attention to/you want to ask about?

i saw that farside made a public bid and was penalized for it. i couldn't find the posts when i looked. were they deleted, or did i miss them?

pedit: hahaha, very funny. :>

[Not Chara]

the following is me catching up. let's talk about it:

i disliked BulletNLynchproof the most as i began reading.
103 is a really awkward question. and there have been other instances i could go find as well of posting that bothers me.

i spent an inordinate amount of time staring at the votecount in post 133. i've never done VCA before. but the early L-1 wagon on town looks very informative.

i'm wondering if BNL's odd tone/play is what is making me dislike them. is he usually like this?

181, and others is a

very

strong defense of our slot. it has me suspicious.

i think farside is town.

195 also rubs me the wrong way. lane doesn't appear to have a conclusion about the slot, in the end, but from the force in the post i was sure that would be the read lane came up with. asking about hydra dissonance, if that's all it was, could have been done in a less accusatory-but-not fashion.
204: this one is bad too. it isn't as though Charloux was lying about being lynchbait. plus, it's misrepresenting what Charloux was saying. of course he wouldn't be lynched already, it's the middle of the first day.
i don't feel like picking every lane post that i dislike. at least not in this catchup.

McMenno is town. or i'm reading him very badly.

i'm also reading the Firebringer hydra entirely on gut. could be scum? but not when compared to lane and BNL.

BNL could be town. 264

i've actually skipped through most of Darklight vs. Davsto. unless i saw them mention another player.

why

was

MOHIS townreading Map Wolf?

356 where on earth did the venom in 356 come from? i didn't see anything wrong with BNL's questioning just before.
Fire's behaviour at the Map Wolf lynch was very bad. also 375.

VOTE: lane

okay. i've read up. but i didn't record most of my thoughts in this post, so let's talk.

essentially, lane is scum for his strange defense of my slot. i'd go into detail now, but i'm multi-tasking.

[Not Chara]

also: don't hammer without claiming intent. i won't claim unless someone does.

[Not Chara]

Hello! Don't worry about getting hammered, the only guy who does that was recently replaced!
Btw what's there to claim again?

nevermind that for now.

do you have any thoughts on my reads?

[Not Chara]

yes, i read several comments about the slow pace of this game.

on 103: i thought it was a strange question because it strikes me as obvious as to why a player wouldn't want to be nightkilled. an empty questiion, if you will. thinking on it further, and taking my own scumread on that hydra (which developed later) into account, it's probably just BNL being suspicious of MOHIS's self-explained reason for being 'lowkey'. (aka, not being forceful) it could read as an excuse to be scummier. so i suppose it isn't that awkward.

defending my slot by itself isn't scummy. it's the strength of lane's defense that is. i don't see where the read came from, it looked more like lane knowing my slot was town and either seeing the towniness of darklight's post due to that knowledge, or simply faking the read for town credit. i think lane succeeded in getting darklight to trust him by being one of the few players to call him town and say his posting was good. plus, i just didn't like a lot of lane's posting in general, as i said. you brought up 195.

[Not Chara]

tone, and a general sense of direction. really, i could be wrong, but his attitude combined with what he's trying to accomplish simply has me believing he's town. i might be able to accurately explain if i went post by post. i'll do that when i have time if you like. there is a small bit of other reasoning i that i can't explain.
posts like 271 feel more likely to come from town. like how he spoke to you. 220 is, i believe, the post that made me write down that he was town in my catchup.

farside: okay then. i'll probably go over lane in more detail when i have time. there were several posts i had issues with.

[Not Chara]

My instinct to Chara's first posts is that I feel they're genuine (town).

Some questions:
I have a hard time reading McMenno, and after you explained to Charloux I still don't understand. What is town about #220?

it's difficult to explain, being more of a tonal/feel read than a logical one. 220 looks like town due to the matter-of-factness of it. scum might (not saying they would always, but) feel the need to explain more about the read. or even, do more than simply say what i feel is exactly what happened. Mcmenno saw some towny posts, some scummy posts, etc. so didn't come out with an exceptionally strong read either way. but, didn't go out of his way to point out these facts as though he is trying to fling suspicion on Charloux without giving a stance. just giving honest thoughts. i don't know how else to explain it, if i'm still not making sense to you.

again, not a very strong read.

how do you feel about McMenno's comment towards me when i replaced in, and his comment toward Charloux? he told both of us 'i don't want to lynch you today'.

Also 513 is another post which

really

makes me want to lynch Mohis...

i didn't have a problem with that post in particular. Mohis has other bad posts, such as the ones before and directly after the Map Wolf lynch. what did you think of those? i remember there being others, i would have to go looking.

[Not Chara]

Charloux, still scumreading Chara?

Need a bit more time since i had Dark as scum... I'm getting town-vibes from Chara so far. The thing that's conflicting me the most is that i don't really think scum would pretend to have a scumread on the only person who is townreading them(Lane).

why are you getting townvibes? is it only because i'm scumreading lane, or is it something else?

on lane:

appears

to be on my slot's side. but still making sure to underline that the kill could have been done only by our slot or to incriminate us. his posts seem designed to make him be seen as the one who was townreading us. why couldn't Davsto have been killed just for being obvious town? only darklight was scumreading him, true, but that doesn't mean the kill could only have been made entirely with darklight in mind. (or by darklight)

[Not Chara]

Charloux, still scumreading Chara?

Need a bit more time since i had Dark as scum... I'm getting town-vibes from Chara so far. The thing that's conflicting me the most is that i don't really think scum would pretend to have a scumread on the only person who is townreading them(Lane).

why are you getting townvibes? is it only because i'm scumreading lane, or is it something else?

on lane:

appears

to be on my slot's side. but still making sure to underline that the kill could have been done only by our slot or to incriminate us. his posts seem designed to make him be seen as the one who was townreading us. why couldn't Davsto have been killed just for being obvious town? only darklight was scumreading him, true, but that doesn't mean the kill could only have been made entirely with darklight in mind. (or by darklight)

to expand: i

do

believe it's likely that Davsto was killed exactly for that reason. but would someone who doesn't know darklight's alignment not consider the third option too? that Davsto was killed for being highly townread.
lane: if you did think about that option and i missed it. feel free to speak up.

[Not Chara]

Charloux, still scumreading Chara?

Need a bit more time since i had Dark as scum... I'm getting town-vibes from Chara so far. The thing that's conflicting me the most is that i don't really think scum would pretend to have a scumread on the only person who is townreading them(Lane).

why are you getting townvibes? is it only because i'm scumreading lane, or is it something else?

on lane:

appears

to be on my slot's side. but still making sure to underline that the kill could have been done only by our slot or to incriminate us. his posts seem designed to make him be seen as the one who was townreading us. why couldn't Davsto have been killed just for being obvious town? only darklight was scumreading him, true, but that doesn't mean the kill could only have been made entirely with darklight in mind. (or by darklight)

to expand: i

do

believe it's likely that Davsto was killed exactly for that reason. but would someone who doesn't know darklight's alignment not consider the third option too? that Davsto was killed for being highly townread.
lane: if you did think about that option and i missed it. feel free to speak up.

Of course I thought about it. But I find it hard to believe conversation went like this

Scum 1: we should kill davsto cause he's Towniest
Scum 2: good idea,

kill davsto

There was more than that. Scum discuss who is best kill and why. It's not as simple as that. At least that's what I imagine. I've never been team scum that participated in a night kill I don't think.

Why aren't you questioning everyone that doesn't consider davsto was killed for more than being just scum? I wasnt convinced. Not with the way he thought Darklight was scum. I even rolecopped him

it's particularly the way you presented it, actually. i confess i didn't record my thoughts here properly.
'Davsto was either killed to frame darklight, or because he was suspecting scum darklight. i believe it's the former.' not an exact quote, but close enough. (unless i made an error, then call me out for that) why would you present the other option if you really think it's wrong? if you were going to present all 'wrong' arguments about the night kill in addition to the framing idea, why did you skip the 'he was obvtown' part of it?

My instinct to Chara's first posts is that I feel they're genuine (town).

Some questions:
I have a hard time reading McMenno, and after you explained to Charloux I still don't understand. What is town about #220?

it's difficult to explain, being more of a tonal/feel read than a logical one. 220 looks like town due to the matter-of-factness of it. scum might (not saying they would always, but) feel the need to explain more about the read. or even, do more than simply say what i feel is exactly what happened. Mcmenno saw some towny posts, some scummy posts, etc. so didn't come out with an exceptionally strong read either way. but, didn't go out of his way to point out these facts as though he is trying to fling suspicion on Charloux without giving a stance. just giving honest thoughts. i don't know how else to explain it, if i'm still not making sense to you.

again, not a very strong read.

how do you feel about McMenno's comment towards me when i replaced in, and his comment toward Charloux? he told both of us 'i don't want to lynch you today'.

Also 513 is another post which

really

makes me want to lynch Mohis...

i didn't have a problem with that post in particular. Mohis has other bad posts, such as the ones before and directly after the Map Wolf lynch. what did you think of those? i remember there being others, i would have to go looking.

You say that your read on McMenno isn't very strong, but "McMenno is town. or i'm reading him very badly." seems to suggest otherwise. Explain?

I find McMenno's comments null, they just don't strike me either way.

513 is one of the posts that is Fire's nonsense posting which I associate with his scum posting (though I'm not sure of the truth about this), which is why it pinged me. I do agree though that some of his other posts were worse though, like the L-1 vote on Map Wolf (his townread).

the read isn't very strong because i'm aware i could be reading him very badly. does that help? none of the thoughts i've put down for McMenno town would convince

me

if i happened to be scumreading him.

scum Firebringer: i don't have the meta to know that. you could be correct, i don't know.

[Not Chara]

Pedit, because I don't think your third option is an option. I think he was killed for a reason other than just being town. The two options I presented are the only options I believe possible

why? that's a very simplistic view. surely it could have also been a combination? you're the one who told me there was an entire conversation about it.

[Not Chara]

I haven't really been feeling bnl's presence in this game even though he has 60 posts

that's a bad sign

what does this mean?
i know you're calling them scum here, but i need more than that. you haven't exactly been making waves yourself.

[Not Chara]

Lane: I quoted and linked were you defended dark.
I'm asking why you think they are town. I noted you've thought this since day 1.

inquiring minds want to know.

[Not Chara]

Pedit, because I don't think your third option is an option.

I think he was killed for a reason other than just being town.

The two options I presented are the only options I believe possible

why? that's a very simplistic view. surely it could have also been a combination? you're the one who told me there was an entire conversation about it.

I just said it wasn't just being town. Someone being town is nearly always part of the reason someone gets nk'd. But I don't think it's the only reason

ok, i'll drop it.

[Not Chara]

Lane: I quoted and linked were you defended dark.
I'm asking why you think they are town. I noted you've thought this since day 1.

Answered. And I asked quote 5 posts in defending dark, aside from answering Davsto. You've done 0. It won't be hard since that's all I do? You're gonna wanna read over when I agreed about a scum point on dark. It won't fit with your picture of all I'm doing is defend dark

could you quote where you talk about why you came to the conclusion my slot was town?

[Not Chara]

I don't remember coming to that conclusion? Can you quote where I do that?

In fact. Can you show my defense of dark aside from answering peoples questions? Help Farside out.

I'll respond to 181 by asking you to show me a better post than darks post im mentioning.

Do you think I concluded dark was town before or after I considered be killed davsto? Do you think I concluded dark was town before or after I agreed with a couple scum points about dark?

i... don't understand this post. are you not towneading darklight.

[Not Chara]

If dark was so scummy, why isn't there more pressure on you? If he wasn't, why am I scummy because I think with the majority, but am the only person to say something?

I'm with the majority, and yet I am scummy for speaking my mind? Ok

darklight was at L-1 before i replaced in.
and if you're referring to why there isn't more pressure on

me

... you must be able to figure that one out for yourself.
could you stop answering me in questions and hypotheticals? i have to spend valuable time figuring out what the heck it is you're trying to say.

[Not Chara]

i... don't understand this post. are you not towneading darklight.

well, my slot. but darklight specifically, and me by extension.

[Not Chara]

your assurance that you 'agreed with some scumpoints on dark' only serves to convince me. you're very aware of how you're being viewed.
i'm not going to quote your defense of dark because it's been quoted enough.
tell me in plain words. were you defending him? townreading him? what's your read on me at this moment?

[Not Chara]

I see you also like to live dangerously. Getting a more solid town read from someone who says they'll elaborate, then refuses to elaborate, and scum reads a person they agree with on crucial points

what crucial points did i agree with you on?

besides

my alignment.
also why are you weirdly throwing shade on someone you're supposedly townreading?

[Not Chara]

lane, what alignment is farside?

your assurance that you 'agreed with some scumpoints on dark' only serves to convince me. you're very aware of how you're being viewed.
i'm not going to quote your defense of dark because it's been quoted enough.
tell me in plain words. were you defending him? townreading him? what's your read on me at this moment?

Yes. Yes. Town? Pretty fucky, but town I think. I'm second least likely to vote your slot in this post. You're moving down though. Your case is crap, you say you'll elaborate if asked, but you won't elaborate when asked. You won't provide evidence when asked. I'm not getting the whole you agree with most the shit I say, but I'm scummy for saying it.

Now you answer my questions. You can't quote all the defense because I've responded to the 2.

Show me a better post than his first big post.

Show me another defense not responding to davsto's questions.

Show me where I concluded darklight was town.

I'm aware of how I'm being viewed? Before I ever was viewed in the way I'm being viewed? How does that work? That was all before you showed up guy. Im aware dark isn't confirmed town, but the cases on him sucked

1) no. his post was fine. it was just a large post with thoughts. what i want to know is why you had this incredible reaction to it. also, i can't read that post for towniness or scumminess in the first place.
2) what does this mean? you keep talking about how you were only responding to Davsto. in 564 you said you were defending him. i know that. what does it matter if you did it prompted by Davsto or not?
3) you were townreading him. you

just

told me that. and it was obvious from what you said day 1. why do i need to show you this?
4) when i said you were aware of how you were being viewed, i meant now. how you keep bringing up points like how you agreed with some scumpoints on darklight. it's like a token 'but i

was

hunting'!

[Not Chara]

like are you

actually

telling me you were both defending and townreading darklight, but you don't remember saying you were townreading darklight? (557)

[Not Chara]

There's a difference between townread and coming to a conclusion someone is town. If I came up a conclusion I wouldn't bother with a possibility of dark scum.

...no there isn't. and if there is, it exists only as a difference in wording. townreading means you think someone is town. and just because you come to a conclusion doesn't mean you can't change it later.
but this really looks like a miscommunication, if your definitions for the two phrases are somehow different.

I see you also like to live dangerously. Getting a more solid town read from someone who says they'll elaborate, then refuses to elaborate, and scum reads a person they agree with on crucial points

what crucial points did i agree with you on?

besides

my alignment.
also why are you weirdly throwing shade on someone you're supposedly townreading?

Throwing shade? I'm questioning bnl's townread on you solidifying? Wtf? Why is it weird and you don't understand all of a sudden? When I did the same to dark?

Crucial points, Davsto was killed for a reason. Something else you said you agreed with but questioned me. Can't remember what it was

i don't think anyone is saying that Davsto wasn't kill for a reason. i wasn't questioning you on what i think happened, i was questioning on presenting the possibilities as if there were only two of them. and the other one is probably similar.
and yes, throwing shade. instead of asking 'why did this make your townread solidify', you said 'your townread shouldn't have solidified from this, because of these scummy things Chara just did'.
what are you talking about with doing the same to dark?

[Not Chara]

I'm pointing to things that happened previously. You're using those points to show that I'm aware of how I'm being viewed now. But those all happened previously. You don't get that?

i'm talking about now. i'm talking about the way you answered my questions.
the 'you're wrong, i did towny things like this, this, and this'.

[Not Chara]

vote: lane

You got reasons? Or just sheeping

All your doing is asking questions and acting like what is being asked has been responded to.
Did I say all you've done was defend dark? No.
I'm asking why the town read.

also. this.

[Not Chara]

I bring those things up because you act like I've been constantly defending dark and I have this conclusion dark was town. Like some infallible read. That's not true and its a misrepresentation.

you've been defending him since 53. it stood out as strange to me. i never said it's all you were doing. and 187, again.

then, besides that. i think i brought up 195 earlier. how it didn't end up coming to a conclusion. that isn't terrible, but it caught my attention. and seeing as how i believe that hydra is likely scum, not that bad. but i don't like the attack on them being on separate pages, when that isn't really what was scummy about the hydra.
you also call dark an easy lynch, but at the same time question every single dark scumread you see. (i'm aware you agreed on some points for scum dark, no need to remind me.)

pedit: there seems to be something going on here between you two that i don't want to get involved with.

[Not Chara]

585: was talking about how you answered my questions with sarcastic questions, at first. you're not doing so any more.

[Not Chara]

Not chara? What was so "incredible" about my reaction? Serious question. Answer it.

What was so incredible about davsto pointing out a bunch of scum points, which you don't see, and then asking if he was crazy, and me saying yeah, you're crazy I don't see those scum points at all.

your reaction to dark's big post that you liked, not Davsto.

i might be beginning to reconsider. did you answer about your read on farside and i missed it?

[Not Chara]

calm down. and as for 187.

i read 176. it looked like a request for clarification, as darklight later said.
i have no idea where you got that it was bait?

pedit: i wasn't trying to say it was. 195 was about the Firebringer hydra. i should have clarified.

[Not Chara]

i'm assuming you were town as well.

pedit: really? i'd have to check again.

[Not Chara]

oh. i understand now. thank you for explaining. i think i finally understand you.
UNVOTE:

576: lane already said he townread my spot. did you read it?

VOTE: My Other Head is Scum

[Not Chara]

i ended up looking through Charloux to see what caused me to put a townread there.
i didn't find anything. and the lack of followup on my answer about McMenno doesn't look great either.

their readslist is fine reads wise, i'm not sure about the reasoning.
remind me who else said they were townreading Charloux?

[Not Chara]

it's a secret. could you explain your behaviour around the Map Wolf wagon? i didn't like it.

[Not Chara]

not what i meant. you voted him while proclaiming he would flip town.

but, we're still friends. even though you're scum.

[Not Chara]

you knowing that you've done so before doesn't make it look any better. it just means you did it knowing you had the means to defend yourself.

talk to me about your read on me.

[Not Chara]

you're right about that. there are other reasons.

what reads of mine are fake?

[Not Chara]

what you find towny about Charloux is not particularly indicative. is the read strong?

i ended up looking through Charloux to see what caused me to put a townread there.
i didn't find anything. and the lack of followup on my answer about McMenno doesn't look great either.

their readslist is fine reads wise, i'm not sure about the reasoning.

remind me who else said they were townreading Charloux?

Why do you read people based on their reads (and not just the reasoning the reasoning behind those reads only)?

that's a strange question. who said i was reading Charloux based on what their reads were? all i said was that there weren't any glaring issues with the reads themselves.
the reasoning is what i noted as disliking.

[Not Chara]

farside: forget the fos, be so kind as to vote MOHIS with me.
lane might be town.

[Not Chara]

625: i take someone's reads into account, along with the reasoning. it's just another aspect of a player to look at. i believe i understand what you're trying to say. i wouldn't look at someone's 'bad reads' and say they're scum if i could understand the reasoning behind them. and 'good reads' might have terrible reasoning, which could indicate scum who know the alignments of players and so don't need to think deeply about how they come to those reads.
but this discussion is largely irrelevant to the game. it's about theory. you're making a lot of broad assumptions about me as a player based on a throwaway line, don't you think?

farside: lane said a few confusing things to me as well. i don't know if that's scummy, or just a quirk of his. i think i understood after he explained. things like the difference between 'a conclusion someone is town' and 'a townread' are language or semantics-based and i don't think differing or miscommunicating because of those things is alignment indicative.

[Not Chara]

and if MOHIS did get the ability, you wouldn't have been able to get it anyway. did you even bid on it?

[Not Chara]

yes, i think the jailkeep would have blocked the cop. it's annoying, but there you go.
lane, why didn't you expect farside to be the kill target? as far as i know, she wss universally townread. who did you expect to die?

[Not Chara]

BNL, you were with us on the MOHIS wagon. why did your read on me flip like that?

[Not Chara]

i imagine jailkeeping doesn't affect the bidding game. the bids resolvr at the beginning of the night, jailkeeping resolves at the end of it.

[Not Chara]

the first post is updated to have six 'living' players left, but i'm still listed as darklight. harsh, mod. ;>

looking at the final votes when yesterday's lynch was achieved... my best picks for scum are Charloux and BNL. farside is obvious town and, while i'm unsure about lane, i feel better about him after our interactions. if farside is town, McMenno is 90% town.
that's process of elimination.

[Not Chara]

i just told you it was process of elimination + looking at the wagons.
McMenno used his jailbreak and there was no kill. whether farside is town or scum, that's good evidence for McMenno beind town. scum can bid on abilities just like anyone else. if buying something was all it took for a confirmation of being town... and it's a supersaint in the first place. it's not like a cop, which has zero scum utility besides wifom.

also, look at the wagons. do you have a better explanation? were both scum actually on the MOHIS wagon? i'm aware that's possible, but i have a minor townread on lane, and farside is farside. i wouldn't put you above either of the two.
i know you had difficulties posting at the end of day 2. what were your thoughts there? were you townreading me or scumreading me by the end?

[Not Chara]

wait. you did. why did i get confused by that.
you're actually confirmed town unless you were pulling a gambit to kill your partner and claim credit, which i very much doubt. or if farside is scum and McMenno blocked her kill, which i doubt.

[Not Chara]

so not really 'confirmed' more like... 'if you're not town it involves a very smart gambit'.
VOTE: BNL
this works.

[Not Chara]

hm. if farside is actually scum, everything gets really complicated.

lane, did you ever explain when you ended up townreading her enough to give her the cop result? i know you had her at lean town at some point yesterday.

[Not Chara]

not confirmed. just very likely. either way, i think he's town.

[Not Chara]

i've only skimmed, but: a no kill gambit has some merit. if they'd killed, we'd be in lylo instead of mylo. and since we'll obviously be lynching anyway... there isn't much difference. scum still need just one mislynch to win. though lane said that earlier.

hm. if farside is actually scum, everything gets really complicated.

lane, did you ever explain when you ended up townreading her enough to give her the cop result? i know you had her at lean town at some point yesterday.

This seems to me like scum asking for their partners help.

how, exactly. i was slightly suspicious of lane's choice in night action, so i asked.

[Not Chara]

BNL/lane is just. it's a weird scumteam.

what i don't see is scum lane fake-claiming to have given the cop to farside, who was jailkept. there's no reason to do it. it doesn't really give him towncred, and it gives him no reasoning/leverage to make the pushes he would want to as scum.

[Not Chara]

BNL/lane is just. it's a weird scumteam.

what i don't see is scum lane fake-claiming to have given the cop to farside, who was jailkept. there's no reason to do it. it doesn't really give him towncred, and it gives him no reasoning/leverage to make the pushes he would want to as scum.

He didn't claim to send it to me after mcmenno said he jk me.
He probably didn't use it.

he could have given a fake (or real result) using his scumpartner. i still don't see the reason for scum lane to do this.

[Not Chara]

BNL/lane is just. it's a weird scumteam.

what i don't see is scum lane fake-claiming to have given the cop to farside, who was jailkept. there's no reason to do it. it doesn't really give him towncred, and it gives him no reasoning/leverage to make the pushes he would want to as scum.

Your voting bnl?
You think bnl and who then?

i'm not sure.
if you're town, Charloux is definitely town for giving you the Supersaint Bomb. McMenno is probably town for jailkeeping you. that would leave BNL/lane. but lane's behaviour is very weird as scum. doing what he did makes much less sense as a gambit than doing something like what McMenno did. either way, in this scenario, McMenno/lane as the team makes zero sense. so it would have to be BNL/McMenno or BNL/lane. hence the BNL vote. BNL is also scum for other reasons, but this is about night actions.

if you're

scum

, everything is just screwy. in that case, McMenno stopped your kill. or, you didn't kill on purpose and had your partner McMenno pretend to jailkeep you. i don't think this is likely due to McMenno saying he jailkept you because you were either going to be the nightkill or the one who performed the kill. it's a risky gambit for the two of you that implicates farside in the kill, who had no way of knowing Charloux and lane would send her a gift/night action.
that leaves lane/Charloux/BNL as possible partners. lane could have done a strange gambit to avoid clearing someone by giving me the cop, as an example. Charloux would also have reason to gift the supersaint to his partner and say it was because she was townread. and BNL is leftovers.

i'm tempted to say you're town and call it a day, because it's easy and BNL looks like scum. but i can't help being suspicious at the number of actions/claimed actions centered around you at night.

[Not Chara]

BNL/lane is just. it's a weird scumteam.

what i don't see is scum lane fake-claiming to have given the cop to farside, who was jailkept. there's no reason to do it. it doesn't really give him towncred, and it gives him no reasoning/leverage to make the pushes he would want to as scum.

So Lane isn't scummy, but why is he town?

i've already explained this?

Turns out I didn't have the time to reread Farside, but doesn't matter, Lane/NC seems like quite a plausible scumteam right now.

There are three likely towns due to them believing (or rather claiming to believe) Farside is town, yet they are finding reasons to not push each other.

what does that last sentence mean. i explained my entire thought process above.

pedit: true, but we're in mylo. i'd think looking town and lynching scum here is more important than possibly looking suspicious the next day because you failed and your partner got lynched.
but, i see your point. it's not as implausible as i thought.

[Not Chara]

BNL: i wondered if there was one scum on the MOHIS wagon and one off of it. looking at the votes, Charloux fit the bill for possible scum off the wagon.
lane vs McMenno: i don't think lane is more likely to be town than McMenno.
and: bids submitted.
i keeo getting bad nagging feelings about last night's night actions.

[Not Chara]

i don't have much more to say without feedback. McMenno, who's scum with BNL again?
you jailkept farside because you figurrd she would be killed if town and that she would perform the kill if scum. did today givr any insight as to which it was?

[Not Chara]

farside town = BNL scum absolutely (so they would hammer)
farside scum = who hammers is less important in this case but still i would need to really consider who it should be.

farside, opinion? i know you're the one to be lynched in this case, but still.
i've never played with this role or strategy so i don't know if there's something i haven't considered. it sounds like it would work.

[Not Chara]

oh, BNL/farside scumteam? i could also see that.

i just realized hiw batshit insane my last post was. BNL needs to hammer. i started it as a 'this works if farside is town or scum' but forgot halfway through what i was trying to do and startef working out team possibilities again...

[Not Chara]

if they didn't hammer, it wouldn't be difficult to swing the lynch to the one who refuses to hammer.
the problem is if we pick the wrong person to hammer and you both end up being town. but that's the same problem we get if we don't lynch you and lynch town instead.

farside, your lane read is fine. i was suspicious of you for your play yesterday for reasons. but i'm reconsidering.

dismissing farside/Charloux/McMenno as town by virtue of farside town and the supersaint/jailkeep... it's BNL/lane. BnL was scum yesterday as well, i can't see them flipping anything else.

i would be ok with just lynching that today.

[Not Chara]

McMenno was already town, i was simply re-iterating.

if a farside mislynch would be instant loss even if scum is the hammerer, we shouldn't do it.

[Not Chara]

i called them both town there but had precious few options. that was why i was suspicious of farside in the first place. PoE trumps everything.

Lucky, i will be V/LA until Saturday, whenever you happen to see this.

[Not Chara]

was that hammer? did any of farside/Charloux/BNL unvote before that?
i can only see someone hammering themselves like that as scum. then again, i don't know the precedence.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: no lynch

[Not Chara]

it's 3 to lynch, BNL. there are two no lynch votes. L-1.
why on earth would i quickhammer end the day as scum when the next day is lylo? think before you post.

[Not Chara]

not how Redirector works.
you coose player 1 and player 2. all of player 1's action targets are changed to be player 2. if you redirect the cop, that cop will be forced to check who you redirect to. it can't be used as a doctor.
unless Lucky is using a strange variant, i suppose.

[Not Chara]

Are we allowed to say which ones we bid on and if we want to gift it?

i think you're allowed to lie, but you're not allowed to publically bid or gift. i didn't get to see the original post, but i...

thought

that was why farside was barred from bidding on day 2.

[Not Chara]

that would essentially be a full-claim of roles for the entire game. should we do that now, or wait until lylo?
i wouldn't mind doing so now, it could clarify some things.

[Not Chara]

let's wait to see what BNL and farside have to say.

[Not Chara]

but, my own opinion is town benefits more from this information than the scum might. with only one left, they have less room for plans.

[Not Chara]

that's something i'd ask the mod, not us.

[Not Chara]

i ended up asking the mod, farside. did you?

[Not Chara]

UNVOTE:
BNL hasn't weighed in yet, but i think we should claim our bidding wins. i'll go first, if there aren't any objections.

[Not Chara]

that's what Lucky told me.
darklight took the doctor on the first day. i took yesterday's watcher. neither were gifted. the doctor protect was used on lane, not outing my investigation results yet.
and you, farisde?

[Not Chara]

there's no breaking strategy. there's a miller, a cop, and a redirector. if we announce who buys cop, the cop is dead. unless mafia got miller, then someone will just be framed.

the cop should know if they're redirected. my results had the name of the player i watched.

BNL, your turn to claim what you bought. i'm not outing my results until you do.

[Not Chara]

i've also proven i have no money left. if i'm lying and do have money left, it's a measly 21. McMenno bought the jailkeeper and couldn't have purchased the watcher, and no one has counterclaimed.

[Not Chara]

which would work wonders if mafia isn't able to seize either of those upgrades.
or if farside was actually confirmed town. she is not.

farside: i don't see mafia bidding on that miller when there's a cop on the table, it's true.

BNL: damn. we both picked the wrong conftown. nobody visited Charloux last night.

[Not Chara]

i bought the watcher for 79, not 70.
and i don't have 21 either, i have zero. bought the doctor day 1.

[Not Chara]

hm. actually, that is true.
but they might have been playing cautiously. there was both a BP and a PGO up for grabs that night, remember? a hammer like that would have ended them if they screwed up during the night.

what i'm not sure i buy is the only wagons yesterday being on the scumteam.
i guess i could argue this tomorrow. if farside is scum, i'll know then. or they might frame BNL, not sure.
i know only town was voting BNL... gah, i'm not sure. BnL just hasn't seemed like scum recently with his analysis. like, if he really believes Farside is conftown, the breaking strategy would confirm him as scum. if farside

is

town, this game is already over for scum.

[Not Chara]

proposed plan:
farside buys the redirector (i don't believe she can be outbid at this point?), Charloux buys the cop.
BNL, even if scum, would not buy the miller, because i don't think he's that stupid.
farside redirects me onto BNL, Charloux cops me.
if BNL is scum, there isn't anything he can do to stop this, because he should have less luck bucks left. he could no-kill, but that wouldn't matter because Charloux is copping me. this would catch BNL scum (or me-scum, hypothetically), so there are no problems. you could flip BnL and i in this scenario and it would still work, of course. i would actually prefer to flip us now that i think about it.

if farside is scum, she has options. she could no kill, allowing Charloux to cop me and see i'm town, which would frame BnL. she could kill BnL, which she won't because Charloux would have copped me, and it would confirm her as scum. in fact, doing anything besides no-killing would confirm her as scum.
so, that plan doesn't work. at least, not for me. though in the end, i have no control over the final decision.

giving farside the cop and Charloux the redirector leads to similar problems if farside is scum.
farside, if you're town, please excuse my paranoia. :>
possible solution: we go with the first plan. Charloux flips a coin. if heads, he investigates me. if tails, he investigates farside. scum BnL can still no-kill in this situation, but has a 50-percent chance of losing anyway because i was copped. same with farside.

thoughts?

in the end, i think you'll end up going with the breaking strategy that assumes farside is town. i hope she is.

[Not Chara]

i doubt Lucky picked the roles based on the gamestate. this is just what was planned.
you shouldn't have bid on both... that makes it possible for scum to steal one. i'm the only player without the luck bucks to do that.

[Not Chara]

VOTE: No Lynch
L-1 to no lynch. not much else to do here.

[Not Chara]

farside? please confirm what role you took/your results, if you have them.

[Not Chara]

BNL, you bought the BP for 52 and the redirector sold for 48. did you take it?

[Not Chara]

farside, the point of the question is if BnL is town, i want a straight answer. i'm aware he can lie if scum.
i also asked Lucky a question. let's see how we're answered.

[Not Chara]

i also have a question for you. why did you check BnL and not myself? you asked Charloux to redirect me onto BnL if he got that ability, and to cop me if he got that instead.

[Not Chara]

you know i couldn't have redirected anything. a scum report on me, maybe you could have questioned, but there would have been nothing to worry about if you'd gotten a town result.
so why?

[Not Chara]

as opposed to someone with a 0% chance to redirect? (me)
did you think scum!BnL would redirect you onto him? banking on you checking me? that's the only reason i could think of for you not checking me.

[Not Chara]

I did my bid early too.
Maybe I'll be lucky and won't be outbid.

Charlo if you get the cop check nc.

I think we nlynch from here and hope for the best.

tell me when you made yesterday's bid. you were discussing plans up until Charloux said he'd already bid on both items.
why would you bid on both in the first place? your planning involved one of you picking each.

[Not Chara]

another thing: did your results mention BnL by name? or was it just a generic return of innocent, or something of that sort?

[Not Chara]

BnL, she's lying. at least she did the work for me and just confirmed herself.
VOTE: farside
this 'gambit' is a joke. why did she gambit? from her pov, redirecting you onto me and me not dying (and Charloux dying) should have confirmed me as scum. it isn't as though there were unknown elements. she seized on the gambit because you brought it up, nothing else.

[Not Chara]

she changed her plans halfway through.
farside, i'm a bit disappointed actually. i expected to be framed, but there were ways to do it in a town way.
spending exactly 48 luck bucks on that redirector just shows you really were attempting to cast doubt on BnL at first. he had 52 left. it wasn't as though you could have beaten him by spending that strange amount.

[Not Chara]

amendment to above: BnL had 48 left, not 52. i keep getting that mixed up.
still a terrible amount to bid when you knew how much he had left and could have bid all 50, farside.
Bullet: this entire day wasn't farside gambiting. i bet you she can't explain what she was gambiting for in the first place, with a clean cut result like that. it was a survival claim because you threatened to vote her if she wasn't town gambiting.
her original plan was to cast doubt on you. i think she did it because she wasn't quite sure if you had grabbed the cop or not. it was unlikely, but possible that you hadn't listened to the plan. if she'd tried to blame me, you might have ruined it with a cop result.

that's why she opened the day like she did. what she should have done if she wanted to win was ignore that possibility and go all in to framing me.
i mean, think about it. the plan was to redirect me to you. but she changed the plan.
i asked why. she said it was to avoid the redirector messing it up. ignoring why that wouldn't make sense, she also

had

the redirector. and so we circle back to 'why did you mess with the plan'? she would have screwed Charloux's result over, had he survived.
but farside didn't think about that, because she killed him.

[Not Chara]

looking for a reaction to what? you had the equivalent of a cop guilty. you had the redirector.
Charloux was dead. if you're town, you didn't kill him. you redirected BnL onto me, supposedly, so he didn't kill Charloux.
the only option would be me being scum, yet you pull this for no reason. no reason as town, anyway.
you changed plans partway through.
why would you try for both items as scum? it was agreed that only you and Charloux would buy items. it was simple enough for you to take one then kill Charloux to prevent the other power from messing with you. Charloux had you as nearly conftown. you knew he wouldn't use any items on you.

my being wrong about lane has nothing to do with this, but thank you for trying.

[Not Chara]

Vote Count 3.final

Charloux -
McMenno -

lane0168 (Lynched!)

- Charloux BulletNLynchproof farside22 lane0168
BulletNLynchproof

(L-2)

- Not Chara McMenno
farside22 -
Not Chara -

Not Voting -

With 6 alive it takes 4 to Lynch!

Deadline - (expired on 2016-10-11 06:00:00)

lane self-voted. planned bus.

BnL wasn't hammered here because it could have been an auto loss for farside and lane. a quick hammer would have outed both as scum, and the night abilities could easily have prevented a win.

it's a good thing Charloux didn't listen to me on BnL, though.

[Not Chara]

this is a test post for signature purposes. if i accidentally post it, ignore it.

this is a test post for signature purposes. if i accidentally post it, ignore it.

[Not Chara]

ha? my god, i actually did accidentally post that?

anyway, farside. i don't have anything else to say. BnL can read what i've written. the proof is in your behaviour today.

[Not Chara]

no one targeted Charloux.
auction bids aren't night actions, they resolve during the day.

[Not Chara]

yes, and?
gifting doesn't happen at night. i can't watch for it. it happens when the bids are resolved. watching looks for night actions, not ability gifting from bidding.

[Not Chara]

if you received a gifted ability at the end of the night, you have no opportunity to use it. bids resolve, then gifts resolve, then night actions are picked, then night actions are resolved. you can't watch or track for ability gift-giving.

[Not Chara]

i just. i could keep fighting farside but i don't see a point. there isn't any more to be said about her that doesn't make her look like more blatant scum than she already is.
it doesn't get much worse than 'i held off on a confirmed guilty on Chara for shits and giggles'.
another great line is there not being a reason to lie in lylo.

[Not Chara]

why were you concerned that BnL, who had you at 99% chance town, would suddenly not believe you when you called me scum?
how did you know BnL didn't take the cop? fakeclaiming that is dangerous.
you said yourself lying in lylo is suicide. (for town, anyway)

these questions are, of course, hypothetical. i know you're scum. but i imagine BnL wants them answered.

[Not Chara]

I assume nothing with nobody.
If you thought bnl took the cop at all you would of asked us both for results.

ha. that isn't how cop results work. if BnL was town and had results he would have said something, there's no need to ask specifically in lylo.
well, when a player is town, there's no need to ask. :>
i didn't think BnL had the cop. but you should have thought about it. you didn't because you knew Charloux had taken it.

[Not Chara]

i don't have anything more to add here, unless there are questions. looking forward to the hammer.

[Not Chara]

yes!

it makes the win a bit less sweet, knowing that it was farside messing up at the end and not my own play that swung the vote.

still, i'm glad we won. nice job! c=
lane felt like whiteknighting scum in his interactions with dark. i have to put a little more stock into my first impressions, instead of being so fickle.

farside, were you actually trying to make it look like a gambit, or was your aim to make me doubt BnL by fakeclaiming cop?

there was also buying the redirector for 48 when you had 50. if BnL was scum and had bid on it first, you wouldn't have got the item.

i was starting to seriously consider farside scum after McMenno blocked her, and it seemed like everyone had targeted her with

something

.

[Not Chara]

i think a straight guilty would have been your best bet in this case. :>
i thought your distancing with lane was well done.

[Not Chara]

no one. and what a shame that was.

good job town. apologies for nearly screwing us over with a BnL mislynch.

[Not Chara]

i'm not confused about what happened.
i'm confused because i wasn't aware there was an incident?

the bids were pretty clearly separate from night actions. they resolved during the day.

thanks for the award. <3

[Not Chara]

i'm going to change my avatar in celebration. Firebringer, what do you think?

[Not Chara]

oh, where she was banned from bidding that day for public bids? the post was deleted, so i wasn't sure.

i don't need more details if it isn't necessary.