Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over

[mhsmith0]

Io has green in her role PM g2k

I'm done with lolhammers after that game. Seriously 4 in a row was bad.

??? Which game?

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith0

You know why.

VOTE: transcend

Kicking his wolf ass in f3 was fun, kicking his wolf ass on day one will be even better!

[mhsmith0]

Io has green in her role PM g2k

I'm done with lolhammers after that game. Seriously 4 in a row was bad.

??? Which game?

This one.

Lolol. I'd skimmed that game, hadn't even realized that the final day had dawned at all.

[mhsmith0]

Io has green in her role PM g2k

I'm done with lolhammers after that game. Seriously 4 in a row was bad.

I find lolhammers amusing

If anyone (even myself) gets to L-1 I will hammer without second thought

Let's find out! More votes on trans gogogo

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith0

You know why.

VOTE: transcend

Kicking his wolf ass in f3 was fun, kicking his wolf ass on day one will be even better!

Lolhammering signups and Inverse Gambler's Fallacy.
tisk tisk. You're not even trying this game.

Trying is boring. Shit posting is fun!
Why do you think that not trying on page 1 is meaningful?

[mhsmith0]

Fuck yeah! Also glad to have a mod who presumably won't lurk for like a week straight.

Yeah about that...
~Sonia

[mhsmith0]

It would actually be really funny if someone got this role pm btw

Spoiler: At least one person will get this PM

Hello xSoniaNevermindx! Welcome to Firework Mafia!
You are a

Vanilla Town

Abilities

: You have your Vote and Voice.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town player is alive.
Please reply to this PM with your role and alignment to confirm

Since I know that my own one had my actual user name on it

[mhsmith0]

Fuck yeah! Also glad to have a mod who presumably won't lurk for like a week straight.

Yeah about that...
~Sonia

Uh oh...

[mhsmith0]

Hey Hermie and rb!

VOTE: gerryoat

You better not be Team Moon!

So why Gerry in particular and not just hopping on the early rvs wagon?

[mhsmith0]

fuck it you're town again aren't you

still keeping my vote on you for 3 pages out of salt.

It's easy being green

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith0

You know why.

VOTE: transcend

Kicking his wolf ass in f3 was fun, kicking his wolf ass on day one will be even better!

Lolhammering signups and Inverse Gambler's Fallacy.
tisk tisk. You're not even trying this game.

Trying is boring. Shit posting is fun!
Why do you think that not trying on page 1 is meaningful?

Adding loaded questions.
Also adding assuming my position.
I never said anything about not shitposting but all you've done is spout scum tells.

1) you said I wasn't trying, I said I was shit posting instead because it was more fun
2) based on your comment about my not trying, I asked you why not trying (what you accused me of) was meaningful
3) what loaded questions did I ask?
4) what scum tells have I spouted?

Assuming it's not just rvs level pushing (you seem to be representing that it's somehow serious), please answer 3 and 4

[mhsmith0]

fuck it you're town again aren't you

still keeping my vote on you for 3 pages out of salt.

It's easy being green

not if you're me

lynched as green all the time either d1 or d2

I have yet to be lynched as town in a game with day length of at least 24 hours. I'm usually lynchbait in 18 minute day phase turbos, but not in legit length games. Heck, I've apparently become obv!town before rvs and shit posting phase was over #bragbragbrag

[mhsmith0]

stop trying so hard we're not even on page 5 yet

zzz

save it for lylo

I don't often make it to LYLO though. I think I talked about why Thor wouldn't want me around late game if he was scum, now you know why

[mhsmith0]

Compromise: Let's starve them both

[mhsmith0]

stop trying so hard we're not even on page 5 yet

zzz

save it for lylo

Be quiet and let the detectives work.

The question was clearly loaded since I didn't say not trying was meaningful. I'm 90% sure that's how that fallacy works, but to be fair I don't care to look it up.

Let's see the list of scumtells.
Lolhammering - Check
Mass use of fallacies - Check
Asking questions day 1 - Check
Hasty defense over a bullshit accusation - check

*squints at io*
By calling out not trying, you IMPLIED it was meaningful (unless you were simply posting shit for the sake of posting shit, which again you're not explicitly saying was the case).
I also ask questions pretty regularly, so I don't know why that's ai at all, much less wolfy.
I also sometimes like to mix in the serious with the bullshit early, which is IMO the best way to do rvs.

[mhsmith0]

anyways to make sure i don't get lynchbaited i will provide a picture of a dog on each page

You already failed.

[mhsmith0]

Compromise: Let's starve them both

you're a cruel person. in more ways than one.

This is known

[mhsmith0]

You do know the not trying was saying you were being obvious scum right?
Just wnated to make sure you didn't completely miss the point which is what it sounds like.

Wait... you think I was obv!scum on page 1? And this isn't just fucking around? lol I have to hear this one. *grabs popcorn, waits with baited breath for explanation*

[mhsmith0]

OKAY LETS DO THIS, THIS IS MY RULES FROM NOW ON:

1. YOU TRY TO READ INTO WAGONS PRE PAGE 10 AND ILL FUCKING TUNNEL U
2. U ASK ME TO STOP CPASING AND ILL FUCKING TUNNEL U
3. YOU FOS ME FOR HAVING THIS STUPID LIST AND IL LFUCKING TUNNEL THE SHIT OUT OF YOU PARTYPOOPER
4.NO ONE CAN OUT SHITPOST MY POSTS

Shit post grade: 4/10. My shit posts were clearly better.

[mhsmith0]

Also cloud: what do you think of Io/trans voting together, and lil avoiding their vote right after? Scum team found amiright

[mhsmith0]

OKAY LETS DO THIS, THIS IS MY RULES FROM NOW ON:

1. YOU TRY TO READ INTO WAGONS PRE PAGE 10 AND ILL FUCKING TUNNEL U
2. U ASK ME TO STOP CPASING AND ILL FUCKING TUNNEL U
3. YOU FOS ME FOR HAVING THIS STUPID LIST AND IL LFUCKING TUNNEL THE SHIT OUT OF YOU PARTYPOOPER
4.NO ONE CAN OUT SHITPOST MY POSTS

Shit post grade: 4/10. My shit posts were clearly better.

U fucking dun goofed, you seriously dont know who ure messing with

You gotta up your shit posting game son, it is weak!

[mhsmith0]

OKAY LETS DO THIS, THIS IS MY RULES FROM NOW ON:

1. YOU TRY TO READ INTO WAGONS PRE PAGE 10 AND ILL FUCKING TUNNEL U
2. U ASK ME TO STOP CPASING AND ILL FUCKING TUNNEL U
3. YOU FOS ME FOR HAVING THIS STUPID LIST AND IL LFUCKING TUNNEL THE SHIT OUT OF YOU PARTYPOOPER
4.NO ONE CAN OUT SHITPOST MY POSTS

i think the mhsmith wagon is 100% scum
stop using caps
fos CloudKicker for stupid list
ur probably right about the last one u seem like a natural

VOTE: VWXYZ this name actually triggers me and I want to not have to see it or think about the fact that i'm communicating with someone named, "VWXYZ"

If you actually think my wagon is scum, why aren't you voting trans or Io?

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Damn missed page top!

@rb: Yeah ok that makes sense.

[mhsmith0]

...
THATS FUCKING HOT BUT I DONT THINK YOU CAN GIVE CONSEND IF U SLEEP

Ew. I mean the joke occurred, sure, but you didn't need to actually SAY it.
VOTE: cloud

[mhsmith0]

Yes I was town god you people suck

[mhsmith0]

I'd only be jealous if you're actually gonna 2v1 her for real though

[mhsmith0]

i may have missed 100, but i did get 101!!! so for that:

badpost VOTE: transcend

How was that a bad or vote-worthy post?

[mhsmith0]

scum mason is bastard this is a NORMAL GAME

try again buddy

He was obviously joking w that. The joke itself was probably the towniest thing he's done so far this game.

[mhsmith0]

The 3s?

[mhsmith0]

The 3s?

3 !'s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what about 3 !s?

[mhsmith0]

The 3s?

3 !'s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And what about 3 !s?

[mhsmith0]

Like, why does it matter that trans had 3 !s in his joke/shit dalmatioms post?

[mhsmith0]

Smith, are you actually trying to red into my bad gut read lol like tell me when you switch from trolling into full hardmode

Yes, am trying to read into your bad gut read. Like I said, mix of shit posting and serious.

[mhsmith0]

I'm colorblind.

Is this in answer to "did you get a red role pm"? Or something else?

[mhsmith0]

Trans, talk through the strong TR on cloud? It seems like he was awkwardly trying to participate in the shit posting without coming across as especially natural (comparing his posts on the sex jokes to rb's, for instance. rb's came across as more natural / free-flowing to me). Did you like his shit posting, or was there some other obv!town there?

[mhsmith0]

Eh, I'll think on it. You say it's his normal play, does his scum play differ from this or is this "him as any alignment"?

[mhsmith0]

How old are you Cloud?

He's 65

[mhsmith0]

How old are you Cloud?

He's 65

Are you Cloud?

He's my father (adopted, of course)

[mhsmith0]

Damn it dad, don't embarrass me in public!

[mhsmith0]

Yeah lil doing nothing notable so far. Not obv!scumming him yet but far from impressed.

[mhsmith0]

How old are you Cloud?

He's 65

Are you Cloud?

He's my father (adopted, of course)

He's a little too old for you to still be answering for him.

No, no, that's fair. However, since you now realize he's my father you should also realize that you've won $100 million in the secret lottery. To collect you need to give me all of your personal banking information. You can pm me or post it in thread. Don't worry, this will be 100% secure for you.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah lil doing nothing notable so far. Not obv!scumming him yet but far from impressed.

can you just epxlain me the use of the ! in obvscumming obvtowning etc

Obv! Is short-hand for obvious. Don't know why site meta does this, but it's a norm apparently.

[mhsmith0]

How old are you Cloud?

He's 65

Are you Cloud?

He's my father (adopted, of course)

He's a little too old for you to still be answering for him.

No, no, that's fair. However, since you now realize he's my father you should also realize that you've won $100 million in the secret lottery. To collect you need to give me all of your personal banking information. You can pm me or post it in thread. Don't worry, this will be 100% secure for you.

2/10

Nonsense that's worth at least a 4.

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: Impoetic

I am aware that it looks like a dumbtell and it sort of was in that I realized team moon was probably something else before posting it, but decided to post it anyway.

And you did this because ___?

[mhsmith0]

Trans is pushing you because it looks like a really badly faked dumb tell. As a wolf, you probably wouldn't want to fuck up your entrance that badly, but it's conceivable that you simply screwed it up. As town, I don't see why you'd want to do this. Even if your goal was to elicit reactions, what could you have learned from it? So I guess the question here is, was this intentional to draw reactions, and if so what have you learned, and if not, what were you actually trying to achieve?

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: Impoetic

I am aware that it looks like a dumbtell and it sort of was in that I realized team moon was probably something else before posting it, but decided to post it anyway.

And you did this because ___?

why not? It was a quirky, fun entrance that somewhat proved my alignment in that I probably wouldn't have come up with such a weird dumbtell as scum, and it got reactions. I don't really know what to think of transcend's reaction, but it did get reactions.

so, tldr: idrc

I also haven't read up yet and am multitasking ATM so excuse the late response.

Why were you so focused on proving your alignment rather than looking for scum?

WHY IS THIS STILL ALIVE

Because a bunch of people haven't shown up yet?
VOTE: lil

[mhsmith0]

Trans is pushing you because it looks like a really badly faked dumb tell. As a wolf, you probably wouldn't want to fuck up your entrance that badly, but it's conceivable that you simply screwed it up. As town, I don't see why you'd want to do this. Even if your goal was to elicit reactions, what could you have learned from it? So I guess the question here is, was this intentional to draw reactions, and if so what have you learned, and if not, what were you actually trying to achieve?

can scum please n1 this

im not in the mood for tryharding so fucking early lol

*nods*
Lynch a wolf + eat a bullet = successful game, plus if town blows it afterwards I can laugh from dead thread.

[mhsmith0]

@mod: V/LA until Thursday.

Noted.

[mhsmith0]

2) I wanted to flip mafia this game, and I'm fucking town

this seems legit to me

town

It does? That seems like a pretty null thing to say to me. Why do you think it's non-fakeable?

[mhsmith0]

- mhsmith0 seems slightly town, I'm seeing a sign more-of town-frustration in the early pages responses to Io's horrible push

I don't see what you're seeing? I mean, io push was terrible (which she now rpr sends as being intentionally terrible), but I don't recall being particularly frustrated, and I'm not seeing it in the posts. Where did you see frustration?

hello people i blame sonia for not telling me this started i was at school but I ALSO FOUND SOME INTERESTING STUFF LIKE 3 PEOPLE SAID THEY WANTED TO LYNCH ME CAUSE OF MY NAME I WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ME

I got a day start pm.
In fact I see you in the list of recipients of that pm.
Seems like you're the one to have dropped the ball.

this website is garbage the format is garbage i dont bother to check this shitty website untill i got skyped that it started but ok

The last time I saw a post like this it was trans getting pissy because his teammate karnos got rope d1.

This is too much responsibility.
I can't do this. I'll just use the modifier to pass the gun to smith since we're just going to masonize him tonight anyways.

Dayvig: everyone. Smith is sole winner gg

Io i think Jae is town for the reaction to my fake dayvig

You mean this?

hah okay

ok so i thought dayvig was non normal so wouldn't be here but i just checked and i might be wrong so gonna throw this out there

if it's a real vig then DO NOT lynch transcend w/ my flip. any push on him will be a scumclaim, ta.

That seems super fakeable, especially with day chat and coaching potential. Why do you think it's meaningfully town indicative?

Vote: Impoetic
Claimed mafia

Unless you think it's some kind of fake gimmick wifom claim, this just looks like regular bs-y type post on her end. It'd be funny if this was just a lazy distancing thing between teammates, but it's pretty early for that sort of thing and I don't think I Sr impo.

Alright assuming there's 3 mafia like there usually is I'm gonna go for 3/5 in luv, rb, smith, burger and hermie.

Ccc can possibly be scum but i don't think he's scum with luv and luv is my best scum read.

I also think after careful thinking that rb is scum.

Thoughts?

I don't see rb as scum, his shit posting felt especially genuine and free. Curious when we'll get actual content from him to get a better opinion but he's town for me right now.

[mhsmith0]

If lil if scum he has two afk/bad teammates or is just letting them bus him. Like, my goodness is there nothing in that ISO; I figured with day chat there would at least be some kind of fake content at this point instead of whatever the hell is going on there. Probably a similar story with vxxxyxyxz.

[mhsmith0]

Having seen you as scum, you've ether drastically upped your d1 scum game or you're just town. Rb seems villagery and pure too. Vw and lil are bad but I'm not sure if bad town or easy win. I'm null on a lot of others, and probably need to re-read more carefully, especially the after shit posting stuff.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah I think I'm cool with this for now

(burgerking, CCC, JaeReed, rb)
(Cloudkicker, gerryoat, Hermie, Impoetic, VWXYZ)
(mhsmith0, Transcend)

Why on all of these? Except rb I guess.

[mhsmith0]

^avtually I dont really care abut the nulls, but bk Jae and ccc as town and trans and me as scum is bizarre

[mhsmith0]

...sixteen pages within twenty-four hours?

I can see I have some catching up to do.

It's easy being green

not if you're me

lynched as green all the time either d1 or d2

...I can sympathise.

what would happen if pinnochio said, "my nose will now grow!"

Not sure, but I think his nose will explode.

Okay, so...

Transcend. You say you have a really really strong scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

Why? What has Lil Uzi Vert done so far this game that you think he's scum?

I don't like his posts and i don't think his progression through the game is genuine.

Hmmmm. This seems very...

generic

to me. Can you point out something in his posts that you particularly didn't like?

This is a town read? For five posts? I guess you'd say because he was defending you? I mean, it's such a bizarre read on basically air.

[mhsmith0]

And at no point did you suspect it might very well be an easy buddying/pocketing play, or just distancing his reads when he has a teammate on you? Seriously that's incredibly lazy work there.

[mhsmith0]

So you have a lazy town read on ccc for defending you. Are your other town/scum reads similarly lazy, or is there any meat behind the other ones?

[mhsmith0]

Oh look I questioned your scum read of transcend that must make me conf!town in your eyes now

[mhsmith0]

So you have a lazy town read on ccc for defending you. Are your other town/scum reads similarly lazy, or is there any meat behind the other ones?

How was questioning a read at that point in the game defending me? I was nowhere in danger of being lynched.

And yeah they're lazy, it's Day 1.

Do you actually believe in any of the reads you've stated or is it all weak leans backed up by basically air?

You think you need to be near lynch for someone to defend you?

Oh look I questioned your scum read of transcend that must make me conf!town in your eyes now

I have not once said the words confirmed and town in the same sentence until now.

So you nitpick on my wording instead of the actual point about your town reads seeming to be super cheap?

[mhsmith0]

I'm just trying to understand how you're taking my town reads as confirming people as town. I never said CCC is confirmed town, I just gave a tier list. You assumed the rest.

No, I sarcastically shat on your lazy read with the "I must be conf!town" plus eye roll bit. I was not seriously saying you had ccc as conf!town for that bit; if I actually thought you'd made THAT strong of a read for that nothing of a point I'd probably just call you conf!scum and be done with it.

[mhsmith0]

wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?

Because that kind of confidence in a read based on nothing would be obvious bullshit / fake reads, and that's pretty damn obv!scum.

...I was going to vote Transcend today, if he couldn't at least give a decent reason for his scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

And he didn't. But now Lil Uzi Vert is also making reads on basically nothing. And if they were both scum, then they'd both know it... hmmm. And sometimes scum do bus each other.

Hmmmmm.

mhsmith0, I think I want to know what (if anything) you know about that scum daytalk you mentioned earlier before I decide where to put my vote.

This is pretty likely town!trans. See my meta case on him in LYLO the first time we played (and he was a wolf)

Spoiler:

He shows no real intellectual curiosity at all about Io v Karnos. Marked contrast to his typical town games where he bounces around between ideas and suspicions (see links I sent earlier today), and even without meta a strange reaction to an accusation of fighting to essentially hand-wave it away as TvT.

In the context of day one...

Town!Transcend
Newbie 1721
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 22, 35, 41, 46, 65, 374, 377, etc.
gives substance behind reads, and is sorting the whole board (though some of the sorts are light on heft), see 346 reads list

New York 196
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8029308
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 46, 49, 54, 57, 59, 397, etc.

Open 645
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
pushing early, bouncing around with his vote and reads, engaging with most of the board
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 195, 227, 229 237, 244, etc.


Wolf!Transcend
Mini 1796
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
early emphasis on explaining/justifying his own push - 167, 169,
questions are self-oriented or weak: 176 is in the context of his own read, 278/279 are questions that don't go anywhere, 281 is in the context of talking about his own vote, 411 is sort of a question, and that's basically it for his first 100 posts

I'm explicitly NOT sorting Fire/Ice since
1) It was multiball
2) His partner was already dead when he subbed in
so that's not reasonably comparable to this game

This game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
(page 1 - first 200 posts)
day one engagement much more focused on specific people (Luna Fox, Thor, PC)
questions are rare and weak - 132 is a push on the player pushing karnos, 352 is a reinforcement of his PC push, ditto 423, 440 is decent though, 642 is a push on luna rather than a true question,
TR of karnos was weak - 317 is a playstyle read, and when thor pushed back in 336, he's not really interested in engaging substantively with the karnos read (394, 397 are both weak in that respect), and pushes to change the topic of conversation
436 is a weird reaction to PC - scum would be MORE likely to make a bad vote, not less
695luna notes trans's posts as being really town, but that only applies i think if karnos is also town; if karnos flips red (which he did) it's an easy post for a buddy to make to sell the "I totally didn't think karnos was flipping red" mindset

In terms of day 1, transcend played much closer to his wolf meta than his town meta. I'd felt better about his later days though, so I need to dig into those to see if I still agree w that or not.

The caveat here is that skimming his ISO there's not much in the way of questioning (more just shit-posting early on), but I don't see him pursuing an agenda, I don't see him pushing himself out of the spotlight, and I don't see any kind of focus on how he's being perceived by the board. It's not 100%, but unless he intentionally swung his meta (which is hard to do btw) just to fool me, I think it's just a lot more likely he's simply town.

PS My day chat knowledge comes from a really cool place. I'm going to spoil it because it might just blow your mind

Spoiler:

> Mafia have day chat.

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

[mhsmith0]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

Because
1) there are (probably) three of them so more odds at least one bothered to read OP
2) they would KNOW there was day chat without an encryptor, and if any are familiar w normal rules they'd know it has to be announced
3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

[mhsmith0]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

Because
1) there are (probably) three of them so more odds at least one bothered to read OP

yes but why would that one specifically announce it in the PT to the others?

2) they would KNOW there was day chat without an encryptor, and if any are familiar w normal rules they'd know it has to be announced

okay but i didn't think of this and clearly the person who asked you that question (I actually forget who it was; Hermie or CC, right?) is fairly new to Mafiascum as well so I doubt they'd know this

3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

I think of dumbtells/derp clears as mistakes that only town can make, not just...mistakes that potentially indicate carelessness.

1) Also, depending on the scum team and the level of their planning, it would possibly come up in conversation, at least in terms of "be aware that people know this is going on and may keep an eye out for coaching and coordination and the like". So if one noticed and the other two derped, it's still reasonably likely that the one who noticed would have communicated it to the others.

2) It was CCC, and I don't know that he'd know it on his own, but going back to the "at least one of the mafia would likely have noticed" bit, barring an all newb team, it seems reasonably likely that SOMEONE on the scum team would have noticed. So him genuinely not knowing it (and I do get that sense from his posts on the subject, it wasn't 100% unfakeable, but nothing there seemed fake when I was reading) would suggest that he didn't know it because he didn't have scum buddies to bring it to his attention or bring it up during day chat. Thus the incident suggesting he's just town.

3) Well, yes. Not knowing the setup isn't ONLY something that town can make, but it's much likelier. Scum would know that there's day chat (barring just a totally ridiculous scum team that paid zero attention to the PT during the day, or the original PM, or the like), and it's reasonably likely that at least one would know that the town knew it. So unless the scum team was all lazy about reading the setup, or they were actively telling him to fake lack of knowledge (and boht seem unlikely), again it seems likelier he's just town.

[mhsmith0]

Lol wolves

[mhsmith0]

I don't buy CCC as wolf here (he seemed fine to me D1), but he's not a priority sort for today. Why do you think he's wolf, other than him suspecting you?

Gerry was a super obvious attempt at PR hunting for the hammer while not caring about the VC. Sketchy for gerry to do it as VT but lol wolves

[mhsmith0]

I'm also feeling slightly better about trans as town because I figure he'd have had decent odds of shooting CCC if he was wolf. NK's pointing to trans in 646 makes that not quite as strong, but presuming 10v3, I would'nt be at all surprised to see him take that risk.

[mhsmith0]

Lol wolves

This looks so much like scum realizing they made a bad shot but you get botd atm.

Do you think ccc is town or is he a null for you?

CCC pretty solid town to me. In a field that was blah and shit-posting, I liked his pushes (even if I disagreed with them).

PS You should investigate my meta some time. My shots are CONSISTENTLY good as wolf, because I put thought and care into them. If you think the shot was terrible, either I'm FPS'ing (fancy play syndrome) by intentionally taking a bad shot to confuse people, or you're wrong and it's a good shot after all, or I'm just a villager.

[mhsmith0]

I mean the shot itself might be good from a PR hunting standpoint but the result wasn't something you wanted to see, which would elicit that kinda reaction.

Give me the theory about how my reaction was fake-looking. You're doubling down on it being BS instead of a villagery lol at it, so flesh it out.

[mhsmith0]

Either Jae or Impoetic is being lynched today.
I did not like any of their votes yesterday, and after going back over and looking through the day Jae and Impoetic's interactions felt very scripted.

And then Jae makes that first post of the day accusing Smith who is not even really close to the top of my scum list.

VOTE: Jae

I could maybe see it as Impo getting spooked over gerry pushing. Anyone familiar with scum meta of Impo/JR, including what kinds of NK's JR and/or Impo tend to make?

[mhsmith0]

Yeah, no kidding. Like Jae is basically digging a hole right now.

People REALLY need to realize that I can't be mislynched in long games. I'm up to like 14 or so games with zero ML's

[mhsmith0]

Actually I think it's 16 now. Need to get around to updating the wiki lol

[mhsmith0]

Jae's reaction to your reaction to the death alone is making me think he did it. That and Impoetic was super jumpy with is votes yesterday and I just wasn't feeling like Jae and Impoetic's interactions were very genuine.
Frankly I see no reason to not just ax the both of them this second.

Will think on it. I'll have a bit more time tomorrow to read through in more detail. I had a bit of a ping suspicion on Impo from the bit where CCC was questioning me on the discussion about day talk (and my TR there wasn't just that he didn't know about day talk being public knowledge [though it was part of it], but that he was questioning me about it in a way that suggested he cared about investigating it, which is only genuine as a wolf if it's 9/2/2 or maybe 10/2/1, and it didn't seem fake at all). Basically, I got the sense that she read it as me TR'ing lack of knowledge about day talk, and hopped in as a "me too" sort of thing. Not sure that's correct, though, so I need to re-read and see if I still agree with that take.

[mhsmith0]

I have no JR scum meta knowledge. I vaguely think I remember seeing such a game of his at some point (newbie queue maybe?) but don't remember what it would have been. I know I'd read an Impo wolf newbie game a while ago (I think it was the JK one where she somehow squeaked through a near-locked game), may dig that up at some point.

[mhsmith0]

As for the first part, I wouldn't have shot gerry. If Transcend is town I would have shot him, if not I probably would have gone for Io or smith. gerry wasn't doing anything and seemed to be content with not doing anything. I wasn't PR reading him either, so there's that.

Talk about this. Why would your list have been trans/IO/me? And why not pr read his inadvertent hammer? "Pr or scum" isn't a bad way to read someone who carelessly votes without paying attention to the vote counts.

[mhsmith0]

Getting n1 fear killed is nice because then it's not your fault if town blows it and you can laugh from dead chat. Just had a game like that where I died n1 (along with my much better hydra buddy) and watched as town competed to see who could more flagrantly throw the game. The ultimate winner was the hydra who decided to fake claim as cop in LYLO. SHOCKINGLY, it didn't work out.

[mhsmith0]

Shadow and I got our hydra n1d in kurois game; too bad we were doc. N2 has been more common for me, though I also sub quite a bit so *shrugs*

[mhsmith0]

Hey Jae talk about how Gerry "obvtowned"

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
Is his ISO. This is someone who was more hanging back, not being super productive etc. like I remember thinking I wanted to push him on whether his accidental hammer was something he'd actually do as town, and don't recall thinking he'd made himself clearly town. What am I missing here?

[mhsmith0]

Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.

I'd guess that CCC's post was in reaction to this. It's a blanket statement that she's town. So, why did you broadcast what read as relative certainty that she's town, if in fact you're harboring meaningful doubts?

[mhsmith0]

I can potentially buy that it's an off-handed comment that was communicated badly (especially in the context of 826 not long before), but nevertheless, what you expressed was more certainty than that. Why do you think it's odd for you to be questioned on it?

[mhsmith0]

So what in particular strikes you as being different in this game from that one?

[mhsmith0]

I think he's mafia because he pushed very hard on town getting lynched he also seems scummy by how he has made his fos at least that's what I think

1) Hard-pushing isn't necessarily AI; plenty of townies will hard-push a lynch on other townies. Was there something specific about his push that bothered you or just "he was aggressive therefore scum"?

2) What do you mean by "how he has made his fos"?

[mhsmith0]

V/LA until November 6th

I'm moving house at the moment, so I wonn't have much time to play and the internet will get disconnected on the 3rd - I'll have phone access. It gets connected at my new place on the 5th (if all goes according to plan) and we'll be mostly finished by then. I'll try to keep up as best as possible.

Noted

[mhsmith0]

Oh wait lol wrong game, I'm playing this one not modding (too many mod games lol)

[mhsmith0]

impo plz don't be scum

@jae: if this is the paranoia post then yes that can 100% be faked. There's nothing here that clearly shows genuine paranoia, it's basically a step up from just saying "hey everyone I'm paranoid of impo"

That said, I'm curious whether you still dislike rb's defense now that LUV flipped town. Knowing that LUV is town, clearly he wasn't trying to save a buddy, so do you think his defense was dishonest or needlessly half-hearted or anything else that would be particularly suspicious? "He didn't have much to defend him for" is a relatively weak line of attack unless there's more that I'm not seeing. What am I missing here?

[mhsmith0]

On day one you said you disliked his defense of LUV, while voting LUV yourself. In his context presumably you were thinking that it was a WK of a buddy. Am I wrong in your thought process on the matter?

[mhsmith0]

Which then opens up the question of why you were voting LUV, a wagon likely to go through (regardless of knowing the exact vc, it was clear he was the #1 wagon), if not only was LUV your #3 scum read, but you thought that rb was mafia actively spewing him town with his WK. Explain?

[mhsmith0]

i mean i could but at this stage it'd just be a vanity wagon. I don't feel like pullin' my own wagon, it's more fun to ride 'em

I mean, you do address it here, but it's pretty bizarre to just sheep an existing wagon rather than actively try for your best read, especially when the actions of your best read potentially spew the main wagon town.

[mhsmith0]

Like, is that a normal gameplay thing for you? Can you show other examples of where you basically abandon your stated best read in order to sheep an easy wagon on day one, while citing evidence that potentially argues against that wagon?

[mhsmith0]

Like, is that a normal gameplay thing for you? Can you show other examples of where you basically abandon your stated best read in order to sheep an easy wagon on day one, while citing evidence that potentially argues against that wagon?

[mhsmith0]

o hey i finally caught up.

trans is town, cool. sheeping him for the rest of the game.

VOTE: LUV

@smith impo is just awkward regardless of alignment.

Good question, I believe I answered it with my first post.

yeah I'd now REALLY like to see if this is normal for town!you, because that reads much more like a semi joke post than a serious declaration of what you're going to be up to.

[mhsmith0]

If you're town, please don't do that, ESPECIALLY on day one. Even if you're wrong, honestly pursuing your best reads is the best way to let everyone else read you, and through that process better move the game forward. Auto Sheeping someone else (as something other than a joke) is pretty anti-town and poor play.

[mhsmith0]

My point is that if you're town, bandwagoning counter to what your reads are is bad play and you shouldn't do it. Nothing wrong with pulling a vanity wagon you believe in for a while to see what happens.

[mhsmith0]

Ultimately, your vote is what matters most, and your d1 vote was where according to your stated reads, it shouldn't have been. Which is why I asked if you have a meta if doing this (which you still haven't answered btw).

[mhsmith0]

I'm not arguing that effort is AI, I'm arguing that willfully ignoring the implications of your reads is bad play if town. You also say you answered the meta question of whether you intentionally sheep and/or make votes that run counter to your reads logic, but I'm not seeing that answer on isoing you (if I missed it, please point me to it). As for the conclusion, I'm not sure if you're town or not, that's what I'm trying to figure out.

[mhsmith0]

So basically you're departing substantially from your normal way of doing things, and sheeping trans regardless of your personal reads logic is part of this. Meh. Null, maybe a scum lean at this point. Would be nice if you had a more defined wolf meta to compare against, but obv there isn't much on that front.

[mhsmith0]

It's legitimate to suspect there IMO. The question I have is if they're actually being intentionally lazy as some weird strategy as town, or whether it's a wolf strategy just to try and look like scummy town. If we had a vig I'd say they're a decent shot, but that seems unlikely with just one death n1.

[mhsmith0]

Scum might do that to look more like low hanging fruit than actual scum. It's a bit unusual, but for a player who thinks they stink as scum (which is what Jae is representing), it's not a crazy scum strategy to hang low or look like lynchbait if things turn a bit.

[mhsmith0]

Ccc, which game were u referencing, and which scum/which votes? Note that if you say wakes role madness I'm in advance not gonna bother looking though.

[mhsmith0]

Sure, I can do that. Impo, what's your impression of Jae scum meta and how it compares/contrasts to this game?

[mhsmith0]

Given that we pretty obviously do not actually have a vig, and all I said was "they're a decent shot" why did you interpret that as actively calling for a vig?

[mhsmith0]

Like, what's the theory here? That I'm subtly trying to influence the theoretical vig by calling it merely decent? That seems bizarrely reachy.

[mhsmith0]

Given one n1 death, I'd put odds of any kind of vig (or sk or multiball) at something like 10%. So yes, it seems quite unlikely. So to interpret that as my actively trying to direct vig shots (much less that I'd have any real confidence in it working as an offhand comment) is strange. Have you ever seen scum actually do this?

[mhsmith0]

Much less do this in a back and forth conversation in the middle of the day phase, late night real time, when few are around? Like, that's a SUPER defensive reaction to a pretty off hand comment. Is major defensiveness normal for your town game? Some people are like that, but my sense is that level of it is fairly uncommon.

[mhsmith0]

I'd say that the analogues to Gerry aren't perfect though. Gerry "hard scum read" one player and then voted someone else in a dependency read, while Jae's vote on LUV comes across as primarily lazy. I also kinda like the way he's been talking the last page or so; among other things, at this hour I'd expect day chat to not be helpful, so he's probably flying solo, and if his scum game really is horrible then I think he'd have made himself look quite a bit worse in the back and forth. He's still basically null for me, which is kinda annoying but *shrugs*

[mhsmith0]

Lol, trans was around. Would get a good laugh if he'd been coaching Jae in scum chat just now, but I don't think there's any good way to suss that out.

[mhsmith0]

Ok. Did some work from home, played some mafia. Next few days gonna suck at work

[mhsmith0]

Especially given everything that has happened so far in thread, I feel you should have a very solid reason as town to not try me here.

So basically you think you're obv!town and that I should know it and that all pushes against you are illegitimate? Or something else?

[mhsmith0]

Oof yeah that probably will be no fun

[mhsmith0]

Especially given everything that has happened so far in thread, I feel you should have a very solid reason as town to not try me here.

So basically you think you're obv!town and that I should know it and that all pushes against you are illegitimate? Or something else?

I think you specifically should know I'm town.

I... should? Based on in thread happenings? I don't really understand why I should have you as strong town. I'm not chomping at the bit to vote you, but I don't find you particularly obv!town or the like.

[mhsmith0]

Idk if this is relevant to rangers micro and you think you're similar to that maybe? I'm kinda just guessing as to why you think it should be obvious at this point.

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

That reads list was a decent post (though a bit neutral about Io and impo). It doesn't make you cleared town given day chat and the possibility it was discussed in PT, but it's worth villager points.

What in particular strikes you as more similar to ccc scum game than town game in comparing isos?

[mhsmith0]

Can you also discuss why trans is such a strong TR for you? You've stated it a bunch of times, but I don't think you've really laid out WHY it's such a strong read.

[mhsmith0]

Have you played with scum!trans before? He's pretty good at generating town reads and having decent looking tone. He's been a TR for me too, but not anything close to a lock read.

[mhsmith0]

Burger is kind of interesting, a lot of (her?) content so far related to the back and forth between me and Io early d1. I'm VERY curious to see what BK is currently seeing in the game, ditto vw, cloud, hermie... lol that's close to half the game.

[mhsmith0]

Thoughts in a bit.

I'm all yours until my girlie friend comes home

Which is in about 2 hours.

Time for some shitty VCA!!! Yay!!!!

Gerry is obv scum for lol hammer. Oh wait...

Burger is kind of interesting, a lot of (her?) content so far related to the back and forth between me and Io early d1. I'm VERY curious to see what BK is currently seeing in the game, ditto vw, cloud, hermie... lol that's close to half the game.

Cloud is VLA for 3 days I think.

Yep. Fortunately day is nowhere near over.

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

VC 1.2

(L-0)

Lil Uzi Vert

- mhmsmith0, Transcend, JaeReed, Hermie, Impoetic, Io, gerryoat

-LYNCHED

(L-6)

gerryoat

- Lil Uzi Vert

(L-6)

VWXYZ

- rb

(L-6)

Cloudkicker

- Burgerking

Not Voting:

VWXYZ, CCC, CloudKicker

Deadline ends in: (expired on 2016-11-07 00:05:00)

mhmsmith0 is V/LA until the 27th.

Mod Notes-Hammer was made at post 730 I am sorry I haven't had the best day but that's besides the point

Hard to get useful vca when it's just one single wagon on town and plausibly late voters weren't bothering to pay attention to vote counts.

Off the cuff, probably exactly one wolf in hermie/impo/Io but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. And that's probably the strongest conclusion to draw there.

[mhsmith0]

That is interesting that ccc sees tone reads as nothing. If gut reads and tone reads = bad play then I am a bad player.(I am even if they mean something but even less if they dont)

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

To clarify, this isn't saying tone reads are necessarily nothing, it's saying that he thinks that Jae has nothing to base a read on and is concealing it by saying "tone" and being done with it. Notably, Jae hasn't actually substantiated what he says is a tone read, see

That reads list was a decent post (though a bit neutral about Io and impo). It doesn't make you cleared town given day chat and the possibility it was discussed in PT, but it's worth villager points.

What in particular strikes you as more similar to ccc scum game than town game in comparing isos?

Tone. There's a glaring tonal difference and his scum game tone matches this one to a T.

concerning 1st paragraph uhhh ok sure. I'm fine with that.

Can you also discuss why trans is such a strong TR for you? You've stated it a bunch of times, but I don't think you've really laid out WHY it's such a strong read.

I can't really. It's gut & tone. I just don't think his early play was his scumplay, and I am very strongly of that opinion.

Essentially ccc seems to be extrapolating jae not substantiating his tonal/gut read into the idea that jae is unable to do so because it's a fake read (and that it's a fake read because he's a wolf). There's nothing in there that argues against the idea of a tone read itself being necessarily illegitimate, and it's kinda misreppy (or lazy reading) to represent it as if that's what he'd said.

As for ccc's take itself, it's obviously plausible that this is why jae hasn't substantiated it, but it's equally plausible that jae simply isn't good at expressing exactly what it is that he's seeing in trans. Which is why ccc is a town read (I think his push is reasonable even if I'm not sold on it) and jae remains largely null for me.

[mhsmith0]

speaking of tone, i'm gonna quote me some soah

Spoiler: On engagement, effort, emotion and tone

Spiff was doing stuff that you just don't see wolves actually do -- claiming a PR with still 24 hours remaining on d1 and openly antagonizing the people pushing him the hardest, rather than just slink away and wait for a shiny object to appear that drags the votes away from him

…

Cron was working super hard at developing his reads and he had the proper emotional investment in what he was doing. I don't feel like pulling up his posts to cite specific examples, so let's just talk again about the Trundle thing. He soulreads a guy as a wolf based on one post and has four reasons for it, and he's super proud of himself and patting himself on the back for it. Wolves aren't trying that hard to develop quick reads and they tend to struggle to come up with that level of insight and they aren't good at getting the subtle emotions right. And his whole day was full of things like that. Cron has played several wolf games on this site and his posting was bland and forgettable each time.

…

I don't have time to adequately respond to that post but one thing I can say quickly is that when I'm talking about emotions, I'm specifically excluding anger. It's the easiest emotion to fake and it's one that is often not alignment-indicative even when it is genuine, unless it can be traced to an origin in something distinctly villagery.

Emotions like pride, paranoia, surprise, suspicion, etc, are more difficult to fake. Wolves often fail to even identify spots in which emotion should be present in their posting, and their efforts at actually displaying more complex emotions are often quite clumsy, for example by stating their supposed feelings rather than displaying them.

But in the case of Cron, a lot of what was clearing for him was just the sheer depth and breadth of his reads and interactions. It's just hard to fake that much content so quickly and make it sound good. And few wolves are ever going to stalk other players' online statuses in order to catch lurkers.

Trans already is familiar with this one (since I used it to bash him over the head with him saying he was angry instead of actually being angry in 646 ), but if you're going to make tonal reads:

1) You should have good reason to believe you're good at it (idk if this is a Jae strength or not)
2) You should be able to explain where your tonal read is coming from. As an example of this, see my progression on Titus (who I correctly read as town) in open 642
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8196397
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8196438
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8196491
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8198933

This was a tonal/emotional based read, but I was able to explain pretty clearly just what it was I was seeing and how it fit with my understanding of her meta. It would be helpful for Jae to substantiate their read of Trans, probably not in this level of detail, but at least to the point that it can be followed and understood.

[mhsmith0]

Also the tonal read of CCC while they're at it. Saying "there's a glaring difference" is much less effective than actually being able to point it out explicitly and explain it.

[mhsmith0]

Explaining yourself matters in a few ways:

1) You'll improve as you get experience actually laying things out
2) You'll have a chance to convince people you're right, and (if you're town) just as importantly give people a chance to engage with your read in case it's wrong, and convince you that it's wrong
3) Through being open about your process, you can enable the rest of the board to read you better

[mhsmith0]

Like, wrt CCC you should be able to point out the glaring difference. Are they high energy one game, low the other? Snarky vs serious? High emotion vs kind of dull? etc

Even that much will at least help to clarify where you're coming from. It's much harder when you simply say there's a glaring difference, because it's not helpful to other people to say there's something there, when you could just explicitly point it out instead.

[mhsmith0]

I'd further point out that in your push on CCC, by not being clear about what you're seeing, if he's mafia (which I really don't buy), he's able to discredit your read since you seemingly can't back it up. And if he's town, he's going to think you're full of shit and casting shade that you can't back up, and (somewhat predictably) think you're a wolf for it.

[mhsmith0]

well yeah, you don't need gigantic walls of stuff. but there's a happy medium between over-posting and saying something without backup. like, jae is saying there's a super obvious tonal difference between ccc as town vs scum, and that he's doing his scum game here, but can't or won't explain what it is. That could be like a 3 sentence explanation.

[mhsmith0]

y

[mhsmith0]

gogogo

also i'm going to bed soon, so you can try hard while I slank. best of both worlds, really

[mhsmith0]

FWIW I'm developing a slight town read on jae, mainly because of how consistently they're engaging with the push against them. It's a bit difficult to maintain that level of "how dare you suspect me" type hostility, and I'm not especially sold that it's within their scum range. I feel like they're probably just kind of hanging out as the vote leader right now (not certain given non-current VC), and I don't especially get a sense of resistance to it. Like, maybe it's trans/jae/lurker or jae plus two lurkers, but it doesn't quite *fit* in my head right now that way.

Probably should look into our lurkers hermie, burger, rb, vw. technically io and ccc have low post counts too, but I can actually remember stuff they've been done (rb has a somewhat higher post count, but a huge chunk of it has been shit posting)

[mhsmith0]

Who are your few good town reads?

mhsmith0 and Impoetic.

Talk through Impo a bit? What in particular have you seen from her to make her a solid town read? I've been kind of null on her, though honestly I haven't especially focused there so I could have just missed something important.

[mhsmith0]

mhsmith0:

Why do you keep associating me with Jae?

Given that you're basically null on jae, why does this bother you? In answer to where it came from this time, it's theoretically plausible that wagon resistance to jae is coming from you, although since I don't have any particular scum read on either of you, I'm not calling it any kind of priority.

[mhsmith0]

It bothers me that you think Scum!Jae would buddy the hell out of Scum!Transcend

"would"? not especially. "could"? it's conceivable. Jae seems to be a player who's super non-confident in scum abilities, so it's not crazy to think (especially if they just randed goon or something) that they'd be putting special effort into anti-spewing their buddies. Do I think it's especially likely? Not really, and this is reflected in my mild town reads of both of you. But if you're looking for me to tell you "I would never believe that Trans and Jae would pull a stunt like that", I'll pass. It's a theory possibility that doesn't especially stack up with my read of the game state, more or less, that occasionally gets a bit of a gut ping in the back of my head.

[mhsmith0]

I'm happy to lynch inside the lurker pool of rb, hermie, vw, burgerking. Not sure which of them I want the most. Lurker lynches are normally lazy, but I don't especially get scum pings from the more active posters, which means that either scum is playing well or it's a relatively easy PoE hang-em-up. If any of those four posted more meaningful content I'd probably have a stronger preference but all seem lynchable to me.

I'll slap a vote on
VOTE: burgerking
but am pretty open to lynching a different slanker instead.

[mhsmith0]

oh yeah cloud is here too. forgot about him. so i guess that's five slankers then.

[mhsmith0]

WHICH LEADS ME TO THINK THAT

I'm most probably wrong on at least one of them

Since I doubt all 3 scum would lurk so hard

Probably need to start re-assessing some things soon.

true but idk who would be the non lurker scum. games are hard when like half of the player pool is hard-core slanking

[mhsmith0]

of the slankers:

relatively townish

rb - thought he had decent tone at times D1 in the shit-posting storm, has occasionally made a semi-interesting point, wasn't on LUV and was pushing other directions

hermie - hasn't done much, the LUV vote at 542 was super lazy

cloud - largely shit-posting on D1, I recall thinking some of the stuff in the io/cloud/rb back and forth was awkward on his end. hasn't done anything d2

VW - has basically said nothing of substance all game. idk why anyone's town reading this

bk - a huge portion of his(?) content so far was about the early back and forth between me and io, had the weird hop on then hop off bit with cc then hermie early d2. talks about trans "horrible" push on LUV without being able to substantiate how it was horrible other than that it was wrong (and "you pushed a wrong lynch" is an incredibly easy angle to take for a push, especially in the context of not really evaluating what everyone else on that wagon was up to)

wolfy

I'd probably say rb is less wolfy than the rest, and that the other four are in a big pile of there has to be at least one and hopefully 2+ scum in the lurker pile

[mhsmith0]

wrt rb, it was more like he came across as giving a shit about finding a counter at a time when there was just one runaway wagon that turned out to be on town. obviously scum could fake that, but at the same time, I'm inclined to look more at someone who actually wasn't giving a shit as a townie was being lynched.

I could also easily see the BK vote on cloud as a lazy distancing vote that was never intended to go anywhere or do anything. I was going to comment on that vote just hanging there until EOD, but went back and ISO'd, and I think the final VC on day 1 was incorrect with BK's vote. I may get around to just banging out an actual VC document in excel, but won't bother until the weekend since it'll take time to set up.

[mhsmith0]

It'd also be kind of amusing if it was all town on the LUV wagon. Basic wagonomics suggests that there was probably a wolf on it, but it wouldn't completely stun me if wolf chat was LOLing at town not even paying attention to vote counts and just entirely staying off it.

[mhsmith0]

I've got a minor business emergency so I'll be sitewide v/la until sometime Friday.

[mhsmith0]

mind elaborating on ur "minor business emergency"?

idk if you are using an excuse to flake

With 10 days left? And my making this note site wide across multiple games including my mods?? Lolololol

[mhsmith0]

lol smith GOAT

[mhsmith0]

Yeah bk probably was bussed or it's all lurker scum.

Ps about to go to lunch, last second meeting is hallways through and has gone so far

[mhsmith0]

Hermie n rb are my foses if i die.

Sure. Other lurkers can die too though.

Ccc jr feels tvt

+1

[mhsmith0]

Strong town ccc
Lean town trans jae Io and I guess impo

Lol if the whole scum team was in the five slankers I'd listed

[mhsmith0]

Impo is either exactly a scum doc or she's town with latter way likelier; ccc communication result was kinda flagrant, though that makes sense for a 1-shot.

[mhsmith0]

Smith, claim.

Not unless we're mass claiming. Why do you think I should claim?

[mhsmith0]

Impo is either exactly a scum doc or she's town with latter way likelier; ccc communication result was kinda flagrant, though that makes sense for a 1-shot.

Can you rephrase because i didnt understand one bit

Ccc claimed an innocent on her. The conclusions from it r obvious.

[mhsmith0]

I have no fucking clue Jae.

[mhsmith0]

I have no fucking clue Jae.

This is an outright lie.

You're softing a PR claim of some sort or this is continuation of our d2 back and forth. But you're clearly softing something, so fake a cop guilty or say what's actually up.

[mhsmith0]

Impoetic is town.

CCC being town makes Smith confirmed scum

.

You're gonna have to explain this one.

[mhsmith0]

Honestly

I'm pretty awful at this game

Trans pulled this kind of shit in 646 ("I've become this games asshole" after karnos flip). Not sure if he does it as town too though.

[mhsmith0]

Btw seeing family for a bit back in like 30 min

[mhsmith0]

Two notes
1) cloud claims first always and it's stupid as fuck to ask for my claim first
2) Jae why did you think I was a protective? Like, why even bring up that idea as a possible claim from me?

[mhsmith0]

Well I mean. I could have accidentally neighborized the whole mafia, but I refuse to believe both Smith and Cloud are mafia.
Smith might be since he was only neighborized last night, but I did Neighborize Cloud night 1 and he did not kill me.

And now Io changes her claim from SMITH being the neighbourizer to herself being the neighbourizer because she fucked up.

Io actually did neighborizer me last night and cloud n1, no clue why she lied
Edit:ok I see why she says. It's odd but I guess plausible.

[mhsmith0]

Also if I knew ccc was 1-shot gs with shot blown he'd be LOW on my kill list as scum, not high. Your theory makes no sense Jae.

[mhsmith0]

If I was scum knowing ccc used 1-shot on impo I'd shoot impo because she's nearly confirmed town and might be a pr. Like, duh.

[mhsmith0]

Anyway, cloud needs to claim and we can go from there.

[mhsmith0]

If I was scum knowing ccc used 1-shot on impo I'd shoot impo because she's nearly confirmed town and might be a pr. Like, duh.

To be fair in Jae's claim you could have also been a Tracker or Follower which wouldn't know he would be 1-shot.

True. My point is his narrative is ridiculous.

[mhsmith0]

Cloud you need to claim asap.

+1

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: cloud
We have a dipole and I believe Jae. Mass claim tomorrow.

[mhsmith0]

@jae: when did you ask about ccc? I don't remember that back and forth off the top of my head.

[mhsmith0]

I doubt io/cloud are scum together, if they were cloud would have fake content in hood instead of nothing at all.

[mhsmith0]

I'd think doc if one exists would always be on Jae since tracker most useful. Unless Jae pulled a scum stunt here, but I really doubt it.

[mhsmith0]

Did Jae lie about you or not?

[mhsmith0]

I mean if you're actually a village idiot than idk what to say, other than maybe "stop sucking"

[mhsmith0]

Jae claimed an incriminating result and you claimed he was lying. And this group has been happy to speed lynch before too.

[mhsmith0]

Oh wait Cloud just claimed to be a power role not to be mafia.

Thus the "village idiot" but. Claiming vt as a pr with a guilty is even shittier play than bk self hammer.

[mhsmith0]

I just hope he's trolling as scum and not actually that terrible.

[mhsmith0]

A doc might have visited ccc, but then you're talking strongman I think.

[mhsmith0]

Rb wouldn't bother as either alignment though. MAYBE JK as a protective?

[mhsmith0]

im just not used to forum mafia, since in chat mafia you dont get hammered if you dont vote so i didnt expect to be speedlynched

Claim and actions in twilight. If town you need to be explicit if Jae lied.

[mhsmith0]

and yes theres strongarm, i was on ccc because of the soft anyway good luck

And u thought lying was a good idea??? God I hope you're just scum trolling here

[mhsmith0]

jae you literraly speedlynched me lol and i asked oyu to hardclaim, you totally ingored me

Jae did hard claim and you claimed VT. This is a thing that happened:

[mhsmith0]

i just didnt expect to be speed lynched like, this was obviously a scum wagon on me and no one even noticed how fast it was

It was a dipole before LYLO of course it would be fast.

[mhsmith0]

I mean, if you're town then yes prob. Scum on wagon but wtf would you expect there.

[mhsmith0]

"No one would believe me so instead I lied"

I literally JUST ended a game with another town pr who pulled this bullshit. God I hate mafia sometimes.

[mhsmith0]

Also isnt this non-legal for me to talk after being lynched ? i dont want to get blacklisted for outing my reads/thoughts

Twilight. You can post until mod locks it.

[mhsmith0]

If you're doc regardless of the kill going through you fucking claim it because there'll be more discussion than you claiming you have no night actions when I've already claimed you used one.

THIS

[mhsmith0]

Jesus christ we just fucking lost the game.

Impo town io prob town, at least we got a few confirms who will be around in LYLO.

[mhsmith0]

If you're doc regardless of the kill going through you fucking claim it because there'll be more discussion than you claiming you have no night actions when I've already claimed you used one.

me asking for hardclaim was me trying to get rxn/reads btw, dont blame me

YOU FAKE CLAIMED VANILLA TOWN WHAT DID YOU EXPECT

[mhsmith0]

jae, i claimed vt because i

wanted to see if you would hardclaim as scum tracker as to be confirmed mafia from my pov. If you retracted i would know youre scum and if you hardclaimed then i would know ure real, no mafia would put themselves as conf scum from a pr pov. My rxn tests was totally nullified when you ingored me and scum wagoned my ass

am incompetent

I fixed your post

[mhsmith0]

This was nearly as bad as the jackass who fake claimed cop in LYLO as vt because he thought the mod accidentally told him the scum team (he was wrong).

[mhsmith0]

Hopefully today you learn not to lie about pr when someone is hard claiming a guilty on you.

[mhsmith0]

Hopefully today you learn not to lie about pr when someone is hard claiming a guilty on you.

He didnt claim a guilty, he claimed a visit and gently asked him to hardclaim, thats all, not the same thing

When you claimed VT it became a hard guilty.

[mhsmith0]

People I'm pissed at if town:

Cloud
Io (to a lesser extent, but fakeclaiming on behalf of smith was awful, awful play and it caused the town tracker to out before they got the information they needed to tell if they had 2/3 or 1/3 mafia)

People allowed to be pissed at me if they're town:

Smith

There was no reason whatsoever to push me there but cloud play was 1000x worse.

[mhsmith0]

You know I actually kind of think Cloud is lying.
If Cloud is a Doctor and Jae is a Tracker then Smith is a ??? Not a Roleblcoker, protective, or informative. So what?
It's a lot more plausible Cloud is just trolling to be honest.

It doesn't feel like a troll here though. If it is my respect for cloud goes WAY up tho.

[mhsmith0]

Also troll here is anti scum wincon since it lets people react honestly while scum can't. But would be great for the Lulz.

[mhsmith0]

Oh shit

Cloud is actually probably telling the truth

Never do that again

Curious why they strongarmed ccc of all people tho

Nice awkward twilight post there trans.

[mhsmith0]

Like strongarming ccc after his public gunsmith soft is not particularly a tough decision.

[mhsmith0]

Also since trash tier play has been the norm here, NO ONE QUICK VOTE IN LYLO.

[mhsmith0]

I'd laugh my ass off post game if it was something stupid like trans/io/Jae.

[mhsmith0]

Also since trash tier play has been the norm here, NO ONE QUICK VOTE IN LYLO.

Ure the one who initiated the wagon after my fake claim, thats just hypocrite if ure town

I made intelligent night actions and didn't lie to create a dipole. You lied and got lynched for it.

[mhsmith0]

Smith, at the end of the day, ure still the one who didnt let doc talk and lynched him, not me

"It's your fault I got speed lynched for lying" something tells me you learn NOTHING from this

[mhsmith0]

Smith, at the end of the day, ure still the one who didnt let doc talk and lynched him, not me

"It's your fault I got speed lynched for lying" something tells me you learn NOTHING from this

[mhsmith0]

oh good ccc was NKed not dayvigged or some sh*t

jae i have no idea why you want smith to claim unless you're a PR with a guilty on him in which case i don't know why you and ccc would bother softing in such a hard way

Jae saw me visit ccc n1 and decided that made me scum-buddies with cloud:

[mhsmith0]

i bet you arent learning either, to not speedlynch yo

I rarely speed lynch. Typically because I presume players aren't liars when town.

[mhsmith0]

i bet you arent learning either, to not speedlynch yo

I rarely speed lynch. Typically because I presume players aren't liars when town.

I LITERRALY SAID THAT IN MY FIRST POST AS TO NOT BE IN SUCH SITUATION, CMON THAT POST WASNT DECORATION

You said something like weeks ago and expect everyone to remember?

[mhsmith0]

I wonder if fakeclaiming VT as town doc is something anyone has ever done before? ROFL.

Sorry I know it's bad for town but that's so shit I have to laugh.

QFT
Even if rb is well inside the POE.

[mhsmith0]

First bk game threw then cloud game threw even harder. Who's gonna have a truly epic fuckup d4 I wonder?

[mhsmith0]

I wonder if fakeclaiming VT as town doc is something anyone has ever done before? ROFL.

Sorry I know it's bad for town but that's so shit I have to laugh.

TEACH ME HOW TO BE GOOD SCUM LIKE YOU

HOW THE FUCK HAVE YOU SURVIVED THREE LYNCHES

Join a game with a few terrible players then watch them be honorary scum. It's part of what got trans to LYLO in open 646.