Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over

[CCC]

...I was going to vote Transcend today, if he couldn't at least give a decent reason for his scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

And he didn't. But now Lil Uzi Vert is also making reads on basically nothing. And if they were both scum, then they'd both know it... hmmm. And sometimes scum do bus each other.

Hmmmmm.

mhsmith0, I think I want to know what (if anything) you know about that scum daytalk you mentioned earlier before I decide where to put my vote.

[Hermie]

This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post




I know I am sheeting but so far LUV is the only player who looks very scummy to me. CCC is asking alot of questions but he is questioning a town read. If LUV is scum he could possibly be a scum buddy trying to distant himself? I lean town tho for know

[Hermie]

Sheeping* not sheeting
Scum* not cum
Dying* not dieing
Now* not know

[Hermie]

Mobile while driving really sucks.

[CCC]

This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post

Yeah... that's why I'm suspicious of Lil Uzi Vert for his correct read on me based on practically nothing.

Mobile while driving really sucks.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAFIA WHILE DRIVING!

You should be paying attention to the road! Watching other traffic! Paying attention to the pedestrians and/or cyclists in your vicinity! NOT dividing your attention with a mobile browser!

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAFIA WHILE DRIVING!

It's not safe!

[Hermie]

I'm riding but the road is rough enough that I keep hitting the wrong buttons.

[Impoetic]

you mean when I said that people's PR/non-PR reads on me were like completely irrelevant to my actual role half the time? Why would you assume it was proven? Are you implying

you

know my role?

Half

the time? How accurate is that figure? Do you perchance have stats (drawn only from completed games, of course) to back that up?

That's a figure of speech, not a statistical estimation. I meant nothing more than that in the other version of mafia I play, people tend to overanalyze/overestimate how much I play to my role. I cannot list games where this happened because it's not forum mafia. Cloud plays there too.

[Impoetic]

Actually he's likely town from a logical perspective given my perception of Gerryoat's approach to the game but I'm not sure and I think it's too soon to be sure but w/e

eyyyy you CAN read

friendly reminder that I'm the mafia goon with a factional kill to direct at whoever I want tonight

Is this an actual, serious scumclaim? I have a very strong urge to park my vote on you now.

What do you think?

And are you reading the posts immediately before and after that?

VOTE: L.U.V.

i'll be a sheep because my SR was wrong

Why do you think your SR was wrong?

because he came and posted some things that seemed really genuine to me. It wasn't necessarily a strong read in the first place.

[Impoetic]

This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post




I know I am sheeting but so far LUV is the only player who looks very scummy to me. CCC is asking alot of questions but he is questioning a town read. If LUV is scum he could possibly be a scum buddy trying to distant himself? I lean town tho for know

wait i know i'm being dumb and please clear me for it blah blah blah but... how is this meta? Is my definition of meta off? :s

[mhsmith0]

wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?

Because that kind of confidence in a read based on nothing would be obvious bullshit / fake reads, and that's pretty damn obv!scum.

...I was going to vote Transcend today, if he couldn't at least give a decent reason for his scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

And he didn't. But now Lil Uzi Vert is also making reads on basically nothing. And if they were both scum, then they'd both know it... hmmm. And sometimes scum do bus each other.

Hmmmmm.

mhsmith0, I think I want to know what (if anything) you know about that scum daytalk you mentioned earlier before I decide where to put my vote.

This is pretty likely town!trans. See my meta case on him in LYLO the first time we played (and he was a wolf)

Spoiler:

He shows no real intellectual curiosity at all about Io v Karnos. Marked contrast to his typical town games where he bounces around between ideas and suspicions (see links I sent earlier today), and even without meta a strange reaction to an accusation of fighting to essentially hand-wave it away as TvT.

In the context of day one...

Town!Transcend
Newbie 1721
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 22, 35, 41, 46, 65, 374, 377, etc.
gives substance behind reads, and is sorting the whole board (though some of the sorts are light on heft), see 346 reads list

New York 196
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8029308
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 46, 49, 54, 57, 59, 397, etc.

Open 645
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
pushing early, bouncing around with his vote and reads, engaging with most of the board
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 195, 227, 229 237, 244, etc.


Wolf!Transcend
Mini 1796
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
early emphasis on explaining/justifying his own push - 167, 169,
questions are self-oriented or weak: 176 is in the context of his own read, 278/279 are questions that don't go anywhere, 281 is in the context of talking about his own vote, 411 is sort of a question, and that's basically it for his first 100 posts

I'm explicitly NOT sorting Fire/Ice since
1) It was multiball
2) His partner was already dead when he subbed in
so that's not reasonably comparable to this game

This game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
(page 1 - first 200 posts)
day one engagement much more focused on specific people (Luna Fox, Thor, PC)
questions are rare and weak - 132 is a push on the player pushing karnos, 352 is a reinforcement of his PC push, ditto 423, 440 is decent though, 642 is a push on luna rather than a true question,
TR of karnos was weak - 317 is a playstyle read, and when thor pushed back in 336, he's not really interested in engaging substantively with the karnos read (394, 397 are both weak in that respect), and pushes to change the topic of conversation
436 is a weird reaction to PC - scum would be MORE likely to make a bad vote, not less
695luna notes trans's posts as being really town, but that only applies i think if karnos is also town; if karnos flips red (which he did) it's an easy post for a buddy to make to sell the "I totally didn't think karnos was flipping red" mindset

In terms of day 1, transcend played much closer to his wolf meta than his town meta. I'd felt better about his later days though, so I need to dig into those to see if I still agree w that or not.

The caveat here is that skimming his ISO there's not much in the way of questioning (more just shit-posting early on), but I don't see him pursuing an agenda, I don't see him pushing himself out of the spotlight, and I don't see any kind of focus on how he's being perceived by the board. It's not 100%, but unless he intentionally swung his meta (which is hard to do btw) just to fool me, I think it's just a lot more likely he's simply town.

PS My day chat knowledge comes from a really cool place. I'm going to spoil it because it might just blow your mind

Spoiler:

> Mafia have day chat.

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

[Impoetic]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

[Impoetic]

Spoiler:

He shows no real intellectual curiosity at all about Io v Karnos. Marked contrast to his typical town games where he bounces around between ideas and suspicions (see links I sent earlier today), and even without meta a strange reaction to an accusation of fighting to essentially hand-wave it away as TvT.

In the context of day one...

Town!Transcend
Newbie 1721
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 22, 35, 41, 46, 65, 374, 377, etc.
gives substance behind reads, and is sorting the whole board (though some of the sorts are light on heft), see 346 reads list

New York 196
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8029308
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 46, 49, 54, 57, 59, 397, etc.

Open 645
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
pushing early, bouncing around with his vote and reads, engaging with most of the board
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 195, 227, 229 237, 244, etc.


Wolf!Transcend
Mini 1796
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
early emphasis on explaining/justifying his own push - 167, 169,
questions are self-oriented or weak: 176 is in the context of his own read, 278/279 are questions that don't go anywhere, 281 is in the context of talking about his own vote, 411 is sort of a question, and that's basically it for his first 100 posts

I'm explicitly NOT sorting Fire/Ice since
1) It was multiball
2) His partner was already dead when he subbed in
so that's not reasonably comparable to this game

This game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
(page 1 - first 200 posts)
day one engagement much more focused on specific people (Luna Fox, Thor, PC)
questions are rare and weak - 132 is a push on the player pushing karnos, 352 is a reinforcement of his PC push, ditto 423, 440 is decent though, 642 is a push on luna rather than a true question,
TR of karnos was weak - 317 is a playstyle read, and when thor pushed back in 336, he's not really interested in engaging substantively with the karnos read (394, 397 are both weak in that respect), and pushes to change the topic of conversation
436 is a weird reaction to PC - scum would be MORE likely to make a bad vote, not less
695luna notes trans's posts as being really town, but that only applies i think if karnos is also town; if karnos flips red (which he did) it's an easy post for a buddy to make to sell the "I totally didn't think karnos was flipping red" mindset

In terms of day 1, transcend played much closer to his wolf meta than his town meta. I'd felt better about his later days though, so I need to dig into those to see if I still agree w that or not.

btw, nice case. This is reassuring.

[Io]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

[Hermie]

This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post




I know I am sheeting but so far LUV is the only player who looks very scummy to me. CCC is asking alot of questions but he is questioning a town read. If LUV is scum he could possibly be a scum buddy trying to distant himself? I lean town tho for know

wait i know i'm being dumb and please clear me for it blah blah blah but... how is this meta? Is my definition of meta off? :s

As far as I know meta is the theory of the game and the theory of who will do what and how scum will act vs how town will act.

Meta gaming is a type of fluff because using it you can throw shade and look involved without providing in-game reads on current hot topic players.


Ie in the top part of that post I didn't really accuse or name anyone altho I was talking about LUV.

The bottom part wasn't meta. It was my gut feelings on luv and ccc

[JaeReed]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

[Impoetic]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

yes but why would town be any less likely to know that everyone knows than mafia?

[Impoetic]

This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post




I know I am sheeting but so far LUV is the only player who looks very scummy to me. CCC is asking alot of questions but he is questioning a town read. If LUV is scum he could possibly be a scum buddy trying to distant himself? I lean town tho for know

wait i know i'm being dumb and please clear me for it blah blah blah but... how is this meta? Is my definition of meta off? :s

As far as I know meta is the theory of the game and the theory of who will do what and how scum will act vs how town will act.

Meta gaming is a type of fluff because using it you can throw shade and look involved without providing in-game reads on current hot topic players.


Ie in the top part of that post I didn't really accuse or name anyone altho I was talking about LUV.

The bottom part wasn't meta. It was my gut feelings on luv and ccc

Thanks. It seems my definition of meta in the context of mafia specifically was not fully correct.

Also oops, looks like jaereed literally just said the same thing i did in almost the exact same words lol

[JaeReed]

Also oops, looks like jaereed literally just said the same thing i did in almost the exact same words lol

<3 it's ok my child I have you covered

[mhsmith0]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

Because
1) there are (probably) three of them so more odds at least one bothered to read OP
2) they would KNOW there was day chat without an encryptor, and if any are familiar w normal rules they'd know it has to be announced
3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

[Lil Uzi Vert]

wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?

Insufficient evidence. I'd posted nothing but fluff and one or two minor questions before that read.

wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?

Because scum are the only players who can be confident with their reads! Town is uninformed, scum knows.

Well that's patently false as most town players develop strong scum or town reads in most games.

Yeah, but generally Town waits until it has a bit of evidence first, one way or the other. I'd posted practically nothing before that read.

Makes it look like Lil Uzi Vert might just have decided in advance how he wanted to read me, then ignored my actual posts. Which would seem more of a scum strategy than a town strategy.

This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post

Yeah... that's why I'm suspicious of Lil Uzi Vert for his correct read on me based on practically nothing.

Mobile while driving really sucks.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAFIA WHILE DRIVING!

You should be paying attention to the road! Watching other traffic! Paying attention to the pedestrians and/or cyclists in your vicinity! NOT dividing your attention with a mobile browser!

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAFIA WHILE DRIVING!

It's not safe!

I don't recall saying how strong my reads are but for the record, they aren't that strong at the moment and they like all reads during this time are subject to change and will.

I will say though that my questions toward Transcend was how I got my scum read on him.

[Impoetic]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

Because
1) there are (probably) three of them so more odds at least one bothered to read OP

yes but why would that one specifically announce it in the PT to the others?

2) they would KNOW there was day chat without an encryptor, and if any are familiar w normal rules they'd know it has to be announced

okay but i didn't think of this and clearly the person who asked you that question (I actually forget who it was; Hermie or CC, right?) is fairly new to Mafiascum as well so I doubt they'd know this

3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

I think of dumbtells/derp clears as mistakes that only town can make, not just...mistakes that potentially indicate carelessness.

[Impoetic]

saying I didn't think of this wasn't a scumclaim it was me genuinely not knowing that daychat w/o encryptor = 100% always announced in the OP

[JaeReed]

3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

I think of dumbtells/derp clears as mistakes that only town can make, not just...mistakes that potentially indicate carelessness.

gonna elaborate for my own viewpoint on this here

Reading the setup I think is something that is a personality tell. As is actually remembering the contents.
Example:
I always read the setup. Sometimes I don't remember the contents. If someone mentions day chat I go and look at the setup to clarify it's written there before jumping to conclusions.
Impo I'd bet never reads the setup. If someone mentions day chat she's likely to just assume it's written in the setup rather than bother to go check I'd imagine.

This is regardless of alignment. It's a personality thing.

[JaeReed]

saying I didn't think of this wasn't a scumclaim it was me genuinely not knowing that daychat w/o encryptor = 100% always announced in the OP

Only in normals is that a rule I think

[mhsmith0]

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)

why would mafia know it was public knowledge? I don't get this line of logic.

Because everyone should know that there is daychat if they read.

Yeah but why is mafia more likely to know it's public knowledge than town is?

Because
1) there are (probably) three of them so more odds at least one bothered to read OP

yes but why would that one specifically announce it in the PT to the others?

2) they would KNOW there was day chat without an encryptor, and if any are familiar w normal rules they'd know it has to be announced

okay but i didn't think of this and clearly the person who asked you that question (I actually forget who it was; Hermie or CC, right?) is fairly new to Mafiascum as well so I doubt they'd know this

3) in general you expect wolves to pay more attention to setup (they're called "dumb tells" or "derp clears" for a reason).

I think of dumbtells/derp clears as mistakes that only town can make, not just...mistakes that potentially indicate carelessness.

1) Also, depending on the scum team and the level of their planning, it would possibly come up in conversation, at least in terms of "be aware that people know this is going on and may keep an eye out for coaching and coordination and the like". So if one noticed and the other two derped, it's still reasonably likely that the one who noticed would have communicated it to the others.

2) It was CCC, and I don't know that he'd know it on his own, but going back to the "at least one of the mafia would likely have noticed" bit, barring an all newb team, it seems reasonably likely that SOMEONE on the scum team would have noticed. So him genuinely not knowing it (and I do get that sense from his posts on the subject, it wasn't 100% unfakeable, but nothing there seemed fake when I was reading) would suggest that he didn't know it because he didn't have scum buddies to bring it to his attention or bring it up during day chat. Thus the incident suggesting he's just town.

3) Well, yes. Not knowing the setup isn't ONLY something that town can make, but it's much likelier. Scum would know that there's day chat (barring just a totally ridiculous scum team that paid zero attention to the PT during the day, or the original PM, or the like), and it's reasonably likely that at least one would know that the town knew it. So unless the scum team was all lazy about reading the setup, or they were actively telling him to fake lack of knowledge (and boht seem unlikely), again it seems likelier he's just town.