Open 655: Fire and Ice Mafia OVER

[Kop]

Will catch up tomorrow, I've had a hectic few days.

[Kop]

u guys (and girl) give me cancer

Not a nice thing to say.

[Kop]

charloux thinks im a town VI, yet at the same time he nullscumreads me.

vote charloux dogs.

Whilst scum sometimes use VI as scapegoats, I don't think it's the case here.

[Kop]

u guys (and girl) give me cancer

Not a nice thing to say.

i dont mind getting replaced out if the mod decided ive crossed a line.

I've had a good few mates and a family member taken by cancer.

I don't think lowering the tone of the game by statements like that just to try defend yourself, is such a good idea.

[Kop]

that is not related to the current context in any way whatsoever

charloux isn't pushing me because he thinks im bad and an easy mislynch

at the same time he implies he thinks im a newbtown (townreading me), but at the same time he is nullscumreading me. his read on me isn't genuine.

He claimed you were VI in post #44, then null scum in #129. Doesn't it occur that something could have changed in between the 80 odd posts made prior to the earlier claim?

[Kop]

that is not related to the current context in any way whatsoever

charloux isn't pushing me because he thinks im bad and an easy mislynch

at the same time he implies he thinks im a newbtown (townreading me), but at the same time he is nullscumreading me. his read on me isn't genuine.

He claimed you were VI in post #44, then null scum in #129. Doesn't it occur that something could have changed in between the 80 odd posts made prior to the earlier claim?

considering that both posts 125 and 129 imply that he thinks im a newb/bad town, no, it doesnt.

I don't see him town reading you, or implying that. It's scum vs scum vs town, it's virtually every man for himself.

[Kop]

that is not related to the current context in any way whatsoever

charloux isn't pushing me because he thinks im bad and an easy mislynch

at the same time he implies he thinks im a newbtown (townreading me), but at the same time he is nullscumreading me. his read on me isn't genuine.

He claimed you were VI in post #44, then null scum in #129. Doesn't it occur that something could have changed in between the 80 odd posts made prior to the earlier claim?

considering that both posts 125 and 129 imply that he thinks im a newb/bad town, no, it doesnt.

I don't see him town reading you, or implying that. It's scum vs scum vs town, it's virtually every man for himself.

125's end does suggest Char doing a reluctant town read on. Not something that he feels strong about, and it's more of an admitting that his argument was bad than anything.

Putting this out here now since it seams that the logic is scum will scum hunt so don't trust people scumhunting. No that's just wrong. Just because it's multiball doesn't devalue the value of scumhunting as a town tell. This is because even outside of multiball scum will "scumhunt" but it wont be sincere. The same logic would still apply here as scum are still scum hunting just more than they would do outside of multiball. The point is that scum will be not as genuine with their scumhunting so shrugging of a player scumhunting as NAI is not reasonable.
And it's not every man for himself. It's the collective town working together against 2 mafia who each have a partner they are working with. Townies should not be playing the lone wolf game, and you know what if scum are scumhunting to find scum in order to blend in with the town that's better for the whole town. I would much rather town read a scum for spearheading an opposing faction than be skeptical of scumhunting in general. When scum hunt they still go after to kill scum. Yes that helps them as they need to do it, but it helps the town just as much if not more since we are not mislynching and killing a scum and if 1 faction dies that's 1 less night kill for the rest of the game.
I do not want to see anymore 152's or 154's trying to discredit scumhunting as not an instant town tell. It never even was an instant town tell to begin with as the town tell is not faking your scumhunting.

Side note, but can someone explain what posturing is? Not really sure because I can't seam to find a clear definition on the wiki or google.

I understand what you are saying, but I'd rather not town read someone based on looking for scum. Whilst I will hold them in high regard based on there scum hunting and findings, but I will hold the thought they could be scum at the back of my mind based on it being multiball.

On a non game related note, over on another site, it was a multiball game, I got a lot of town credit based on myself finding the opposing scum faction members, no one considered the thought that I could have been scum. Only the other scum team shot me and everyone saw I was actually scum, I could have possibly went all the way till the end of the game and dictated the town direction, based on my town credit I had at the time.

But less of this talk.

[Kop]

If we as a species of players, could not do walls. That would be cool.
Hey kop, you not going to acknowledge this wagon?

The wagon is appearing to be late RVS based, no facts, nothing to defend one self too.

Of the fact that you come steaming in with a cop claim, considering there is no cop in this setup, so pretty hard to take seriously.

[Kop]

VOTE: Io

Wall posts ahhhh, scum tend to use wall posts a lot more to gain from the game, to try make out they are town.

[Kop]

Nope, he's basically clear to me.

I'm pretty sure I've seen scum ragequit maybe once, and they tried to cover it up as replacing for other reasons. And I've seen town do it 9999 times.

pedit: 10shi

I've never seen it. Most I've seen ragequit have been town, but I don't like to go into WIFOM as to determining alignment based on that.

I've pushed for a lynch many times on replacing outers and ended up looking bad for it. I'd rather see what the replacement offers before I tend to look deeper into it.

[Kop]

Are you doing this because Charl is your scumbuddy or is this real?

Early doors I didn't feel anything towards that wagon, but I'll happily go over look it again.

[Kop]

The way he avoided the Charloux wagon and never commented on him, I wouldn't be surprised with a Charloux + Kop scum team.

Wrong.

I glimpsed over the whole wagon forming, and didn't feel anything to contribute towards it.

[Kop]

Blix900 is posting elsewhere.

I hate these posts.

[Kop]

But you're the only one voting Io.

And your point?

It would be far easier for me to jump onto a wagon without any resistance, but that's bandwagoning without any reason of my own to do so. I'm reading back and if I feel that I've missed something towards that wagon, I'll happily contribute to it.

[Kop]

I think I must have mistaken the pressure early doors was creature, not Charloux.

[Kop]

UNVOTE: Io

I do agree that his (Charloux) ISO, doesn't really look appealing.

[Kop]

charloux thinks im a town VI, yet at the same time he nullscumreads me.

vote charloux dogs.

Whilst scum sometimes use VI as scapegoats, I don't think it's the case here.

VOTE: Io

Wall posts ahhhh, scum tend to use wall posts a lot more to gain from the game, to try make out they are town.

UNVOTE: Io

I do agree that his (Charloux) ISO, doesn't really look appealing.

I don't really understand his train of thought here, he starts off implying that charloux is scummy, but then votes Io right after someone else votes charloux

He then unvotes Io saying Charloux's iso doesn't look appealing (Which shouldn't be related to his unvote)

Also his reasoning for voting Io was that scum tend to use wall posts more. I don't think this is even true but if anyone wants to back that up that would be nice
Though even if you say "scum use wall posts more" you're not taking into account the individual player. Maybe they wall post every game.

I'm not taking individuality into any account of the scum use wall posts more argument. All I'm saying is, scum can often use wall posts to try make out there town, because town tend to think scum wouldn't go to long lengths to try make out there actually doing something. I've used wall posts before trying to pick apart arguments to make out that I'm town trying to work out the game. It's all down to appeal more than anything.

Whilst Charloux ISO isn't very appealing, I didn't really think about contributing to the wagon, because it seemed there was lack of resistance to it, and it seemed easy. It would have been easy to jump on the bandwagon, but I'd rather jump on it for my own reasons, and not what everybody else is force feeding me.

[Kop]

I'm comfortable with a Kop vote, too eager to join in and make a good impression on everyone.

VOTE: Vote Kop

VOTE: Charloux

That seems way too desperate in an attempt to manipulate.

Why the change? Why so easily?

[Kop]

charloux thinks im a town VI, yet at the same time he nullscumreads me.

vote charloux dogs.

Whilst scum sometimes use VI as scapegoats, I don't think it's the case here.

VOTE: Io

Wall posts ahhhh, scum tend to use wall posts a lot more to gain from the game, to try make out they are town.

UNVOTE: Io

I do agree that his (Charloux) ISO, doesn't really look appealing.

I don't really understand his train of thought here, he starts off implying that charloux is scummy, but then votes Io right after someone else votes charloux

He then unvotes Io saying Charloux's iso doesn't look appealing (Which shouldn't be related to his unvote)

Also his reasoning for voting Io was that scum tend to use wall posts more. I don't think this is even true but if anyone wants to back that up that would be nice
Though even if you say "scum use wall posts more" you're not taking into account the individual player. Maybe they wall post every game.

I'm not taking individuality into any account of the scum use wall posts more argument. All I'm saying is, scum can often use wall posts to try make out there town, because town tend to think scum wouldn't go to long lengths to try make out there actually doing something. I've used wall posts before trying to pick apart arguments to make out that I'm town trying to work out the game. It's all down to appeal more than anything.

This is circular and semantic backtracking, obviously it's a reason why you are saying Io could be scum because you vote her in that post. Not "oh sometimes scum wallpost", you pretty much said "wallposting is a scumtell"

For the record, Dunnstral's post felt like scum to me too. It's so weak.

Wow why do I only feel like the posting flows properly at 1:30am

Whilst Charloux ISO isn't very appealing, I didn't really think about contributing to the wagon, because it seemed there was lack of resistance to it, and it seemed easy. It would have been easy to jump on the bandwagon, but I'd rather jump on it for my own reasons, and not what everybody else is force feeding me.

So you didn't want to look like you were """"sheeping"""" k got it

It would be far easier to jump on the bandwagon and not have much attention, as opposed to sheeping for my own reasons and get more attention doing so.

As for the wall post against Io, I don't use it as concrete your scum tell, but it could/can be a tactic that scum would use. For many a reasons, look town doing something, to intimidate players.

[Kop]

it would be way more suspicious if he said "WHEN" not "IF"......

This makes even less sense than what I said

Hanging onto straws. Trying to twist a picture to make it look scum.

[Kop]

I fail to see a good reason to vote Map.

/vote Char

I'm starting to really dislike his AtE. Like if you're Town doing AtE please just stop it looks incredibly scummy to do that.

This post is a scumclaim.

If you believe it's a scum claim, why aren't you voting it?

I know if I see something that is aiming towards a scum claim.

And if Io is lynched and flipped scum, I'd have a good finger to point towards that defence of Map there too.

I actually still want to go with my first vote.

VOTE: Io

I don't think Char would actually reach as far as he is to appeal to the emotion of talking himself out of a lynch, as scum. I believe if he was actually scum, he'd do enough to stop the talking to deprive town of information.

[Kop]

I don't think Char would actually reach as far as he is to appeal to the emotion of talking himself out of a lynch, as scum. I believe if he was actually scum, he'd do enough to stop the talking to deprive town of information.

I mean, they definitely would. I don't think they're scum anyway but they would do that.
This seems like an overjustification for a vote change too

A vote change from what? A vote change from not voting.

[Kop]

I don't think Char would actually reach as far as he is to appeal to the emotion of talking himself out of a lynch, as scum. I believe if he was actually scum, he'd do enough to stop the talking to deprive town of information.

I mean, they definitely would. I don't think they're scum anyway but they would do that.
This seems like an overjustification for a vote change too

Well, we have differing opinions. I've only seen it as really a last resort tbh, most I've seen in scum defence is themselves trying to talk themselves out of a lynch by using other methods other than AtE.

[Kop]

Overjustification of not voting Charloux, then

That's even scummier

He may have a scummy ISO, but I don't think he's scum based on that. The whole wagon forming, seemed too easy, that's what is giving me the impression that he isn't scum.

[Kop]

Nice on Firebringer.