Open 656- Tit For Tat - Endgame

[Kop]

VOTE: texcat

[Kop]

Cats are evil.

[Kop]

VOTE: Kop
At least fakeclaim cop believably. You didn't even spell it right.

Thanks for the tip.

[Kop]

I like the eagerness(snake).

VOTE: eagersnake

[Kop]

townreading fancypants btw

On what basis?

his post looks towny

How does it look towny? What does a towny post look like?

[Kop]

no me

NJAC is scummy cant u guise see

Ok, you've got my attention. Why am I scummy?

because in this post:

I'm town

Yeah, very good post. I'm happy with my vote on you.

u are trying to paint off post 27 as scummy when it isn't.

He's claiming it's not a very good post, which I agree with. Any tom dick and harry can post I'm town.

However, I wouldn't go as far as he did with the statement about being happy with his vote. It's something I wouldn't vote for, because it isn't exactly a legitimate reason I'd vote someone for.

[Kop]

ok guys dont be shy there is a caviat to being inactive

I like your eagerness.

[Kop]

This feels like the best vote.
VOTE: alban

Sheep me Yuria

Explain why we should sheep you.

[Kop]

VOTE: alban

For explicitly stating his vote was RVS, lynch immediately please.

There's no reason to state your vote is RVS in the second post of the whole thread.

Unless you're hyper paranoid about how you're being read.

I can agree with this.

[Kop]

What in 5 posts is giving you such a strong scumread?

Its not, its a good wagon though. Do you have a reason why its not?

I don't understand this at all. What makes it a good wagon? I guess I don't understand what makes a good wagon if it's not a strong scumread.

A gut feeling, also there are some awkward things about his intro. Nothing seems to be happening right now so I'd like to get some pressure on someone to change that.

What is awkward? State these reasons, and I'm willing to talk to you about them.

[Kop]

21 specifically. What's your opinion on hark?

I understand some posts can look towny, and give off vibes. But I wouldn't stretch it as far as saying someone is town because there posts seem towny, especially early in the game. I just wanted to see what Hark meant by his statement, and how he perceived his views of what a towny post is.

I haven't encountered Hark a great deal on here, but right now he's in the null pile.

[Kop]

21 specifically. What's your opinion on hark?

I understand some posts can look towny, and give off vibes. But I wouldn't stretch it as far as saying someone is town because there posts seem towny, especially early in the game. I just wanted to see what Hark meant by his statement, and how he perceived his views of what a towny post is.

I haven't encountered Hark a great deal on here, but right now he's in the null pile.

did his answer mean anything to you?

I can agree with his answer to the question, because tone of posts can give away town impressions.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it that early though, especially during RVS.

[Kop]

Been busy with RL. Will catch up later today

[Kop]

u are trying to paint off post 27 as scummy when it isn't.

Nah.

It's something I wouldn't vote for, because it isn't exactly a legitimate reason I'd vote someone for.

But my vote on him wasn't for that post. Also, what's a legitimate reason for voting someone during RVS?

I was talking about Harks vote on you.

[Kop]

I'd love to go into detail about every player thats in the game, and why I have them where I have but I am too tired to post in great detail, so it's going to be sketchy at best.

I have read back and got myself nearly up to date with everything, but here is where I am in with reads:


Up to now, I'm liking Fancypants, Fire Assassin for town. Slight town reads on Yuria, Hark, Alban, Eager. Null on SGZ, NJAC, Persephone. Slight scum reading on Texcat, Gamma.

Hark is only a slight town read simply because I don't see suicidal play like that as scum. It's simply not a viable game play that I would see scum do at this stage of the game, to openly put themselves out there. And if I think more about it, I think it's reaction testing to see who would actually push it to get an easy lynch by doing what he is doing. It's probably not the best strategy to finding scum because it has higher risk of backfiring, and less reward, or I may even be thinking out the box and this isn't his sole intention. I wouldn't call him newb town, or a VI, but I think it could be just his way of generating discussions, engaging with people, and looking for reactions, it appears poorly played, but it's his own unique way.

[Kop]

Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?

You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.

Fancy Pants your point I disagree with.

A few have suspected Texcat along with myself, but we aren't seeming to gain any real info, and with a flip, we can draw associations and actually get some serious information that we can draw on. By going around in circles on day one we aren't going to gain the information that can be used to crack the game, yes we can draw conclusions/associations, buddying, who suspected who, who town read who, etc etc, we aren't going to build on that unless we get a flip and get night actions out of the way where we start putting the dots together.

Yes it may seemed rushing now because we have 5 days left, but we have a weekend in between that, and I'm not overly active on a weekend, and I'm sure that could count towards others too.

The reason why I have a slight scum read on yourself is simply because of my reasons to disagreeing with some of your posts. And your constant changing, it seems your all over the place. Call it gut.

[Kop]

Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?

You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.

Fancy Pants your point I disagree with.

A few have suspected Texcat along with myself, but we aren't seeming to gain any real info, and with a flip, we can draw associations and actually get some serious information that we can draw on. By going around in circles on day one we aren't going to gain the information that can be used to crack the game, yes we can draw conclusions/associations, buddying, who suspected who, who town read who, etc etc, we aren't going to build on that unless we get a flip and get night actions out of the way where we start putting the dots together.

Yes it may seemed rushing now because we have 5 days left, but we have a weekend in between that, and I'm not overly active on a weekend, and I'm sure that could count towards others too.

The reason why I have a slight scum read on yourself is simply because of my reasons to disagreeing with some of your posts. And your constant changing, it seems your all over the place. Call it gut.

Not fancypants, I meant the Fire Assassin point you made.

[Kop]

Gamma in case you missed it I was asking why you find Fire Assassin and I scummy?

You for reasons texcat listed, FA for his suggestion of a quicklynch on tex for bad bad reasons.

Fancy Pants your point I disagree with.

A few have suspected Texcat along with myself, but we aren't seeming to gain any real info, and with a flip, we can draw associations and actually get some serious information that we can draw on. By going around in circles on day one we aren't going to gain the information that can be used to crack the game, yes we can draw conclusions/associations, buddying, who suspected who, who town read who, etc etc, we aren't going to build on that unless we get a flip and get night actions out of the way where we start putting the dots together.

Yes it may seemed rushing now because we have 5 days left, but we have a weekend in between that, and I'm not overly active on a weekend, and I'm sure that could count towards others too.

The reason why I have a slight scum read on yourself is simply because of my reasons to disagreeing with some of your posts. And your constant changing, it seems your all over the place. Call it gut.

Bit in bold should say Fire Assassin, not fancypants. Aimed at Gammas point towards FA.

[Kop]

VOTE: Texcat

[Kop]

Sorry for inactivity. Not likely to improve this week, but I'll try. Anyways, strong town read on Eager and medium strength one on Hark, Yuria and Gamma.

In terms of scum reads, nothing is making me want to move off of Alban. Seems more worried about himself than anything else, clear scum mentality. Everyone else is pretty null atm.

I don't like this post, not sure how to explain but these reads don't look quite genuine.

Still labeling this slot as scum.

They may not, but Sgz has replaced out, so we don't know what his thoughts were behind those reads.

[Kop]

Oh, I see. One of your list of lurkers. Thanks. I'm still hoping that Farside will get caught up soon.

What are you hoping to achieve?

What are your reads up to now?

[Kop]

Oh, I see. One of your list of lurkers. Thanks. I'm still hoping that Farside will get caught up soon.

What are you hoping to achieve?

What are your reads up to now?

what are you trying to achieve? I thought you were rather convinced on what we should do.

I am wanting to find out what he thinks farside is going to bring, what he is hoping to achieve.

And I'd like to see what he has in terms of reads, at least can give us a bit more information we can work off.

[Kop]

First of all, She not He.

Second, you seem to agree with fire about needing a flip because we're getting nowhere. What are those questions going to prove post flip?

Those questions relate to something we can look at post flip. We can possibly draw up associations, connections, information we can build on etc. We will get information post flip, but I'd like most information gained from a flip that we can get.

[Kop]

First of all, She not He.

Second, you seem to agree with fire about needing a flip because we're getting nowhere. What are those questions going to prove post flip?

Those questions relate to something we can look at post flip. We can possibly draw up associations, connections, information we can build on etc. We will get information post flip, but I'd like most information gained from a flip that we can get.

If she's town, how much of a connection can you get from someone who knows no one elses alignment?
If she's scum, how can you trust a wifomy list from someone who is getting pl regardless?

And is this a normal thing for you to advocate?

perhaps. But scum on death row generally make their lists to be analyzed post flip.

I want to hear the answer from kop because that's who's alignment I'm concerned about.

If she flips town, then we can look at those who wanted her dead, reads obviously won't be as big as a deal if she's dead town.
If she flips scum, yes the list may be WIFOMed to hell, but it's something we can work from and use to base a list on. Scum on death row will try make a list that can be hard to work on, but least we can have something to work on and build on to breaking the game.

I'd rather have a lot more information going into day 2 after a post flip.

[Kop]

VOTE: NJAC

i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.

VOTE: NJAC

i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NJAC

Yep.

VOTE: Njac

VOTE: NJAC

Fucking hell, how quick were these votes apart.

I have NJAC in my null pile because I haven't seen a great deal to scum read him, but I wouldn't vote for him right now, until he actually gets in here and defends himself to this wagon.

But something unsettles me because of how quick things flipped over onto NJAC, with a few people actually reading him in a different light to voting for him. That makes me nervous.

UNVOTE: Texcat

I'm going to have to over read things again.

[Kop]

NJAC bus texcat for towncred

I'd vote NJAC.
Last time I played with text he read horribly scummy and was town.
He actually reads better then I remember him, so I'm not sure why he reads scum.

VOTE: NJAC

i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.

VOTE: Njac

VOTE: NJAC

VOTE: NJAC

Why?

I'm town

Yeah, very good post. I'm happy with my vote on you.

this

VOTE: alban

Cause that RVS thing.

I don't like this vote, call it gut:

VOTE: Sgz13

Finished reading.

@Gamma: your vote on alban is different from Sgz's. What's your point?

this

I'm town

Yeah, very good post. I'm happy with my vote on you.

this

VOTE: alban

Cause that RVS thing.

I don't like this vote, call it gut:

VOTE: Sgz13

Finished reading.

@Gamma: your vote on alban is different from Sgz's. What's your point?

this

HI Mr vague, how are you.
That's just a bunch of quotes.
Why are they scummy?

You're voting him too dude.

thats irrelevant

What is this quick wagon on NJAC?
Surprising even though I suspect him too.

You're voting him too dude.

Yes, I know that. I also haven't explained my scum read.
You on the other hand are a scum read as well so........??

These quotes don't seem genuine. Something reads very off to me. I mean the whole Hark voting on farside mentioning that she would vote NJAC, then Hark jumping on. Then Hark specifically asks for 4 names to jump on then that's what causes Farside and gamma to jumping on when requested. Then farside questions gamma. It just doesn't make sense, it seems like far fetching to reach for justifications to why they jumped on. Gammas explaination of the reasons he votes, isn't exactly great detail to why he voted. This is strenghthening my suspicion on Gamma. He's been all over the place and isn't exactly going into great detail to why he's suspecting people other than pointing out 'these' posts that he suspects, he isn't giving much information out that said person can answer back with.

@Gamma, can you explain further to why you suspect NJAC without going back into saying 'this', 'this', 'this'.

Farside already mentioned that NJAC is a scum read, but it seems only to be a scum read OMGUS considering NJAC has been on farside for half of his posts?

@Farside, can you also do the same, just so that it doesn't feel like it's OMGUS, and that you actually suspect NJAC and it's not OMGUS.

@Hark, you've gone from one post to another to another, it's hard to get a feel of what your actually wanting to achieve. Can you point me to why your wanting NJAC lynched over the others you suspected only a little bit earlier before the wind changed direction.

[Kop]

@farside can you point me in the direction I said NJAC is town?

[Kop]

@farside can you point me in the direction I said NJAC is town?

I don't see why you'd be concern of a quick wagon if you were scum reading the guy.

Harkonnen97, FancyPants, farside22, GammaEmerald

I remember promising myself I would stop analyzing who was on a train before a damn flip, but beyond FancyPants here. I don't trust the judgement of any of the players on this lynch (Maybe Farside if she could show me an alignment), so I am wondering why its the leading wagon.

I also strangely feel the same way Farside felt about Texcat wagon. Indifferent and don't want to support it.

Why is text scum?

I agree with your point, but I wasn't scum reading NJAC, nor town reading him. I just didn't agree with how quickly the wagon formed. If he was a scum read of mine, I'd have joined on the votes, but he's a coin flip for me right now.

[Kop]

I personally think Gamma is confirmed scum for opportunistically jumping on literally every major wagon, but okay. Let's go with that. I still think I'm with Harkonnen though. I don't have a lot of experience with scum replacing out for being scum.

I'll move my vote if someone other than Gamma decides the persephone lynch is a good lynch. But if she turns out town, please vig the hell out of Gamma.

Kop, Yuria, what do you think about all this?

I've tried to make heads or tails of what the previous pages were all about, but I don't like using other games as a set in stone argument. People can alter their own game from one game to the next to make it 'appear' there styled games. It's a handy tool to use for some, but it won't make me change my opinion of what game they are playing in this one, not there previous scum or town game. Even if this is Gammas game style that he previously played as town, if I'm slightly scum reading him in this one, he's still that, a slight scum read. He could just be playing that similar style to make it look consistent because he knows a few people from his previous games.

[Kop]

we risk shooting a PR if the vigilante shoots Gamma. NJAC is a claimed VT. he is a safe vig kill.

There shouldn't be a safe kill for a vigilante. The vigilante should shoot someone that is universally scum read by everyone, and by himself too. By shooting a claimed VT may be safe, but it doesn't help removing strong scum reads.

[Kop]

Gamma, she feels like she's totally new to the game. I think she's just being super careful with her vote and afraid of lynching a townie.

But why not vote in the post she expressed the scumread in?

Which post are you referring too?

As far as Perses ISO, she voted in the first post she expressed doubts about Hark and Fancy pants?

farside22 (L-6): NJAC
Fire Assassin (L-6): texcat
Harkonnen97 (L-6): persephone325
GammaEmerald (L-6): MiniDeathStar

See all these one player votes?
They are all terrible because none of them are going to happen.
Persephone is one of the worst because its on Harknonnen who is townread by almost all players.
Gamma is townread enough by enough to not even really be considered likely.
I am not likely cause no one has expressed a scumread on me beyond texcat who is very likely scum.
And Farside isn't happening because the reason it started were terrible OMGUS.

Join the Persephone wagon, so we can end the day with a scum flip.

Thank you all.

Persephones vote on Hark was made in post #131, I don't think Hark was town read heavily as much as he is at this stage of the game.

[Kop]

And we're lynching that slot based on early postings and the way that slot replaced out?

[Kop]

At this point, I'm happy to go back to my previous vote. I'd be happy with Gamma as an alternative.

VOTE: Texcat

[Kop]

we risk shooting a PR if the vigilante shoots Gamma. NJAC is a claimed VT. he is a safe vig kill.

There shouldn't be a safe kill for a vigilante. The vigilante should shoot someone that is universally scum read by everyone, and by himself too. By shooting a claimed VT may be safe, but it doesn't help removing strong scum reads.

This post is so bad, as if njac didnt claim from there being a consensus on his scumminess. Who are these "strong scum reads" you're trying to redirect the vig to?

What are you talking about from there being a consensus on his scumminess? The fact that his wagon drove quickly, then claiming a VT, I'm claiming that he shouldn't be a safe vig kill because he claimed VT.

Right now, you have a wagon on Flubber, texcat, whilst others are suspecting farside and gamma. I'm not redirecting anything, I'm basically stating that the vig shouldn't have to shoot a claimed VT simply because it's seemingly a safe shot. The vig should shoot who they believes is scum, or who is under direct suspicion.

[Kop]

Kop, what are your thoughts on the rest of the town?

I'm still under strong impressions that fancy pants, Fire Assassin, and Hark are town. I'm town leaning on Yuria, MDS and Eager.

I'm unstanced on Farside because I'm having a hard time reading her. I'm unsure on NJAC simply because he was null before the wagon quickly developed which gave me the impression that it seemed was a town wagon because of the nature of how quickly it went up, but then that whole back and forth a few pages ago made zero sense to me, it's a coin flip for me on him.

I'm scum reading texcat, and Gamma.

[Kop]

VOTE: KOP

Start here

Reasons, at least give me something to answer too.

[Kop]

I am going to have to over read things. My reads are just totally wrong.

V/LA till Sunday 6th November. I will try to get on when I can

Noted.

[Kop]

I am going to have to over read things. My reads are just totally wrong.

V/LA till Sunday 6th November. I will try to get on when I can

Noted.

How so? What did these flips prove differently to you?

I expected Texcat to flip scum, with her flipping town, it's making me rethink things because I think I'm giving my town reads far too much credit.

I had a slight town read on Eager, I am doubting that read. I overlooked that read last night whilst I had 5 minutes, and I'm actually warming up to some pressure being added to Eager.

I am going to see if I can get back on for a bit longer this afternoon to over look other things.

I am still confident in Hark being town.

[Kop]

I am still confident in Hark being town.

Why are you so confident about it?

I just feel that he's town, mainly gut. Not bothered about his appearance and how he's pushing things.

[Kop]

VOTE: Eagersnake

I am warming to this.

Spoiler:

Voted for me, RVS. He then looked a bit frustrated that my wagon dissolved.

Voted for Texcat. Never offered to why he placed his vote there.

Moved it too Gamma, with a 'OMG', took Houses style, nothing to explain, and did it for the lulz.

Moved vote back to me. Still no reason.

He then moved back to Texcat claiming to just get it done. Wanted Texcat lynched in the back end towards the day finishing.

Starts of day 2 with a vote on me, still no explanation.

So, I did have a slight town read on him early game, mainly gut. Now that I have over read his ISO, I am seriously doubting myself on this slot right now.

Eager, your votes throughout this game have had very little explanations to why you have placed them there. You have given us no stances to where you are in terms of how your reading people. Please explain your thought processes behind these votes? Were they just pressure votes? Were they bandwagoning votes in hope that it would achieve a lynch?

[Kop]

^ why vote him before questioning him as opposed to the other way around? Do you find that town tend to explain their votes more often than scum?

I often feel that by placing a vote, it adds pressure.

Town have there reasons by there votes, and why they are placing them. I would like to see his reasons why he voted for and why he did, voting without explanation can often be seen as wagoning in aim to lynch, sometimes can be scum motivated as it doesn't incriminate them by not offering there input to why they are voting there.

One of his votes achieved the wagon that lynched Texcat, whilst texcat was highly regarded as scum (I also had the same view), but he never contributed anything towards that wagon. And never explained why he wanted Texcat lynched.

[Kop]

You didn't really answer the second question.

I get that not answering questions can be scum-motivated, a lot of things can be scum-motivated. But in your experience, is it more likely to come from scum?

Voting without explanation I have seen from scum, but I've also seen it from town. It depends on how well you know the person doing it, to whether he has a history of doing it.

[Kop]

Harkonnen97 has requested replacement.

Is this frustration?

[Kop]

Spoiler: 16-20

I decided to just roll with the stronger townreads I have and try to re-evaluate the weaker ones. So after these pages FA, yuria, hark, and fancy are my strong townreads and eager, kop, and farside are the weaker ones.

First of all, She not He.

Second, you seem to agree with fire about needing a flip because we're getting nowhere. What are those questions going to prove post flip?

First of all, She not He.

Second, you seem to agree with fire about needing a flip because we're getting nowhere. What are those questions going to prove post flip?

Those questions relate to something we can look at post flip. We can possibly draw up associations, connections, information we can build on etc. We will get information post flip, but I'd like most information gained from a flip that we can get.

If she's town, how much of a connection can you get from someone who knows no one elses alignment?
If she's scum, how can you trust a wifomy list from someone who is getting pl regardless?

And is this a normal thing for you to advocate?

^^ town shit

I think texcat is lynchbait. You should sheep me.

Townreading the biggest wagon without reasoning sets off red flags for WKing for me, but gamma did the same thing but worse so idk

Liking farside so far, her tone seems similar to some town games I've played with her.

Fire is town, he's scumhunting without trying to look like he's scumhunting.

VOTE: NJAC

i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.

VOTE: NJAC

i agree, his reads are terrible this game. i think its bcz he's scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NJAC

Yep.

VOTE: Njac

VOTE: NJAC

Fucking hell, how quick were these votes apart.

I have NJAC in my null pile because I haven't seen a great deal to scum read him, but I wouldn't vote for him right now, until he actually gets in here and defends himself to this wagon.

But something unsettles me because of how quick things flipped over onto NJAC, with a few people actually reading him in a different light to voting for him. That makes me nervous.

UNVOTE: Texcat

I'm going to have to over read things again.

Why unvote here? Not concerned about cwing?

^ question to kop

I unvoted because I wanted to review the whole thing. I didn't like how it changed, and how quickly the wagon developed. I changed back to Texcat because I think I needed that flip to show me what I needed to know. If Texcat flipped scum, then I could look at that development on the NJAC wagon because I would like to think tex partner would be somewhere in that quick voting, because it was taking away from tex and latching onto a heavily town read.

[Kop]

Kop needs to get in here. I need to know if him or farside is the last scum

Well what do you think about my interactions with Kop and farside?

You haven't hardly at all interacted with me, so I suggest you take my name out of that question.

You've voted for me on more than one occasion, and not even given me a case to answer to you.

So instead of ignoring me, why don't you go and take a look at #995 and actually answer the questions referred to you, since it appears you have decided to ignore it.

[Kop]

How's it going kop

I was just about to say, I think you're more likely scum than farside because you've been drawing less attention to yourself

What do you think about my catchup

I'm not fully up to date with the last few pages as I am currently on vacation.

Why are you concerned that Eager didn't call you scum?

How is Yuria obv town, I don't see that obviousness in him being town?