Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over

[Transcend]

^ nice. ^

[Transcend]

that fucking page break tho.

[Hermie]

Okay guys I need to try to reread now. Unfortunate with the LUV flip. He was fluffy as hell tho.

[Transcend]

Right

[Hermie]

Okay 1740 is over and you guys can check it out. Based on that I feel like rb is town. He rings scum but he did in that game as well and he was Actually town pr. CCC does feel so.ewhat scummy to me but that might be because of everyone else's scum reads on him. I really don't know what you guys see as scummy about transcend and mhsmith cause they feel fairly townish to me.

Burger King is confusing, day 1 he seemed to be trying to make people mad=scummy. Right?

[Hermie]

I think rbs town play is just scummy.

[CCC]

I'd say that the analogues to Gerry aren't perfect though. Gerry "hard scum read" one player and then voted someone else in a dependency read, while Jae's vote on LUV comes across as primarily lazy.

Yeah, the analogy's not a

perfect

match. It's still the best scumread I've got right now.

[CCC]

I work retail

Tomorrow is Halloween

I'm not exactly what you call


Off

Wish me luck

Good luck.

[Impoetic]

I'm with jaereed and CCC is pushing on semantic incongruities (more likely to be made by town, if anything) as if they were definite scumslips

CCC when you say jae being innocent child is unlikely, are you saying you think it's unlikely they're going to be cleared or unlikely that they're

town

, period?

In one scenario you're nitpicking when they (to me at least) clearly meant it as a sort of "what if I'm town" rather than "what if I'm innocent child" (I sure hope they aren't, they're probably my hardest tr atm for reasons I can't really push) and in the other you're professing near certainty that someone is scum over... carelessness, basically.

[Impoetic]

Oh right, someone asked me about meta on jae. I've only played one scumgame with them and it was in a completely different version of mafia but they seemed relatively transparent that game and I doubt they just suddenly upped their towntelling game given their impression of their own ability to play as scum. There are a lot of reactions here that I doubt are forced ATM, and I think the scumtells people are pushing on are really things that careless town can totally do.

I also think Jae has forgotten that I've pushed on them as both alignments and they reacted by omgusing every time. /salt

[CCC]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

[CCC]

{Io}

{mhsmith0, VWXYZ, CloudKicker}

{Impoetic}

{JaeReed}

{CCC}

{Burgerking, Hermie}

{rb}

VOTE: rb

...okay, I don't agree with everything in this post, but I do like that you've actually done some serious analysis here. I'm now starting to question my scumread on you. Your day one push on Uzi was still terrible, mind you.

[CCC]

rb/Burger/Hermie gg.

Hmmmm. rb and Hermie have been pretty null for me so far; maybe I should look more closely at them. Burger could be scum, but that's an extremely weak read.

[CCC]

CCC when you say jae being innocent child is unlikely, are you saying you think it's unlikely they're going to be cleared or unlikely that they're

town

, period?

I think it's

highly

unlikely that they're an actual Innocent Child, and I think they're slightly more likely to be scum than to be town.

[Burgerking]

Alright, it's kinda hard to do VCA when mod was fairly lazy throughout the whole day, and we had a hammer for about 3 days or so without knowing it, but here goes nothing. I trust that Sonia put everything chronologically here.

UZI WAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disclaimer: Green=Conf Town, yes, I know I'm not conf town to you guys, but I don't give a fuck.

(L-0)

Lil Uzi Vert

- mhmsmith0,

Transcend

, JaeReed, Hermie, Impoetic, Io,

gerryoat

-LYNCHED

If scum strategically plotted this wagon by placing one or more of their members on this vote, that meant that scum would be in Impo, Io, and gerry. One of those is flipped town, one is my best townread and the other is also a fairly strong townread. I doubt scum!Jae and scum!Hermie would strategically L-4 and L-3 the lynch. I think the fast wagon was just due to not having a VC. I truthfully only think that there's at most (and probably) one scum that was on this mislynch.

So let's take a look at each individual member on the wagon individually.

Smith: The first vote, but I think he voted him because I did, or he agreed with my reasoning on him, while I was changing my vote as often as I change my underwear. His vote doesn't appear tactical like "hey I can get this guy mislynched". I think he genuinely agreed with me that Lil Uzi was scum or, at least, that his content was bad. Read:

Lean-Town.

JaeReed: This guy has been up my ass all game. I hate being buddied truthfully even though that's hypocritical since I tend to buddy a lot myself. Anyways he basically made me the town doublevoter that day everywhere I voted he voted. Is this scummy? Kinda. Does that make me fos him? Not really, but it does make me want to put him on close watch, even though I really liked his reactions to a few things. Read:

Null.

Hermie: His vote was on me for the longest of time, and the reasons for it were bad, but not exactly scummy. I don't know why though when he doubted his read on me he immediately decided to sheep me. That's putting a lot of trust in someone he formerly thought was scum. I can understand the likes of mhsmith and Jae sheeping me, but Hermie? I truthfully think that this was the scum on the wagon. Read:

Lean Scum.

Io: She's been my hardest townread all game. I'm gonna disclose right now that we aren't actually masons, it was only banter. I'm sure most of you knew, but there are some people that genuinely question it. I saw Io play scum in my Fire n Ice game and her scum game is insanely different from her town game. Her reactions have been fairly genuine and her tone is really towny. Scum CAN fake it, but this is definitely Town!Io here. Read:

Town.

Impoetic: I might need to re-ISO her since she's a controversial player, but I've played thousands of games with her off site. I'm bad at reading her in chat mafia but I'm pretty good at reading her in the long drawn-out games. However that's not always. I don't think her vote was tactical, rather, just voting someone she thought was scum, or scummy. Read:

Null-Town.

NON-UZI WAGONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(L-6)

gerryoat

-

Lil Uzi Vert

<-------------------------- lol

As for the rest, I do hold a read of which yields 2 scum in the bloc of {rb, Burger, CCC}. All 3 of them defended Uzi and I feel for 2 of them it was defense on a scummy town slot for them to get another mislynch and save Uzi for another day. In their defense: there was a lolhammer, and if they wanted to properly defend Uzi, they couldn't exactly do such.

(L-6) VWXYZ - rb
(L-6) Cloudkicker - Burgerking
Not Voting: VWXYZ, CCC, CloudKicker

V and Cloud are town I'm pretty sure. I may need to reread both ISOs, but I'm not concerned about either of them right now.

rb: I think most of his votes have been fairly inconsistent. IIRC, he had a fos on someone (Cloud???) but then RVS'd VWXYZ, and parked his vote there for quite some time due to his "explosion". While his explosion was bad, he agreed with me that he was better off being vigged rather than lynched, yet his vote was parked on V for quite a long time, without pursuing his vote on another slot. His day 1 was pretty bad and inconsistent. And I didn't like his defense on Uzi. He was right, but scum do know who's town and who isn't, and I feel like he used that information to his advantage. rb isn't really interacting with Burger or CCC so I'm pretty sure he's surely scum here. His vote on CCC was really bad, even though it could've been him voting scum. I can see a bus there. Read:

Scum.

Burgerking: His entrance was fucking awful. His vote on Io was even worse. He overanalyzed all the mshmith-Io interactions. Then just shadethrew the rest of D1. His D2 hasn't been much better. His vote on CCC looked pretty tactical. Then I unvote and he unvotes because he was "building pressure". I don't think those were his intentions. CCC didn't even react to his vote, or any other vote by the time he had unvoted so that was clearly not his intention. There is a chance though that he's just really awful town, but I'm leaning heavily towards no. Read:

Lean Scum.

CCC: His reads this game are awful, and his "one of Trans/Uzi is scum" thing was really bad. But I gave him benefit of the doubt because Uzi was just horrible and I didn't think he'd associate with Uzi if he were mafia the way he did. Now that Uzi has flipped town, he hasn't done anything to pressure me at all. He's been more focused on Jae. Like there's even been a forming bandwagon on me and he still doesn't pressure me when I'm "poe scum" to him. However, the votes from rb and Burgerking on him were awful. Right now, I'm gonna agree with Smith here and say he's scummy but that there's a lot of scummier people. Read:

Null-Scum.

IMO one of {Jae,Hermie} with a fairly strong lean on Hermie and two of {rb, Burger, CCC} where I'm fairly certain rb is one of them.

TL;DR.

{Io}

{mhsmith0, VWXYZ, CloudKicker}

{Impoetic}

{JaeReed}

{CCC}

{Burgerking, Hermie}

{rb}

VOTE: rb

way toooo long, not gonna read lol

[Burgerking]

seriously wallposts suck, try condensing

[Burgerking]

also wtf is a "null-town". i think u mean townlean right?

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

This is actually confirmed mafia in my eyes right now.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4&start=50

Wake & Drixx already disproved this train of thought in the dead thread with you.

[JaeReed]

also wtf is a "null-town". i think u mean townlean right?

null-town is weaker than a townlean.

[JaeReed]

I also think Jae has forgotten that I've pushed on them as both alignments and they reacted by omgusing every time. /salt

I haven't forgotten. That's why I made the distinction about paranoia.

But I don't know if you forgot how fake my omgus was to you when I did it as maf.

anyway if you're maf here you've kinda pocketed me now so gj

[Io]

I also think Jae has forgotten that I've pushed on them as both alignments and they reacted by omgusing every time. /salt

I haven't forgotten. That's why I made the distinction about paranoia.

But I don't know if you forgot how fake my omgus was to you when I did it as maf.

anyway if you're maf here you've kinda pocketed me now so gj

I still think you're the one pocketing Impo at this point.

Especially since Impo said the same things about my reads (894) that CCC said about yours (985) and you only applied the reasoning to CCC.

Also Impo if you want a fake looking interaction this is a pretty prime example right here. It's a light push on Jae and a small defense from him which is basic read scripting: small push leads to light defense leads to sudden town read.
Disclaimer: Not a legit term, just something Io uses to define "good scum tactics" aka inflating her ego. I enjoy doing this kind of thing as scum because no one notices it unless you've done it yourself. It also only works with daychat or really detailed night planing.

[Io]

I'm also aware Impo didn't say they were town reading Jae, at least I haven't seen it, but that was the example I was using of common read scripting. It's just a way to get artificial town reads on scum partners without putting a whole lot of effort in. Hence why I said the next step would be for Impo to town read Jae.

[Io]

Also still not really comfortable with Trans hard pocketing me. You did that last time you were scum.
Never trusting you again after that game

[JaeReed]

@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?

That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.

So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?

Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.

Uhhh Impo already townreads me.

Io literally the only reason I don't have you as scum right now is because Trans is pretty adamant you're town and I am certain he's town. If you're town you need to rethink or at least get a new wagon to sit on & confbias the hell out of.

[JaeReed]

sighhh ^ ignore the quote there. This site has issues.