Undertale Mafia: Friends & Corpses [GAME OVER]

[Narna]

I'm out at the moment, but I'll be reading the game tonight. Keep the votes coming.

[Narna]

I wonder where Narna is.

Something came up last night. I'm almost halfway through the thread, and I'll be able to post in earnest tonight.

I like blade, not chara, and creature for town so far. I'm not a big fan of zakk, mcmenno,

or pepto.

[Narna]

That's a shit tell for scummy dudes.

[Narna]

Yeah Not Chara's push on House here is pretty bad. Speaking of surface level analysis - the "Your timing is bad" is that in a nut-shell. It ignores that House had already called the slot scum and voted it previously. It ignores the fact that I prodded House to get back on the wagon literally this morning. It ignores all the flow of the actual game and that

Narna is scum who has surrendered given the hole his predecessor dug for him.

what
what
what?

I would never surrender in the one bastard game I've seen here in 6 months. I haven't even caught up to the thread, and you are basing this on what exactly? I feel as if NC's push on House is totally legitimate here, and it's barely even a "push". I don't have a read on you yet, but this "Narna has given up" nonsense is the most surface of levels bullshit.

[Narna]

Narna join our townbloc; vote Magna.

I just got home. I have a lot of shit to consume, and then I'll be ready to read and actually play the game. I didn't even know about the chunk of votes that Magna got in the last few pages until I posted, but I mostly need to understand why Zakk never took off, and why you guys are voting Magna before committing. I'm not asking for a summary, I'm just not caught up.

I promise I'll be done reading in the next few hours. I just got home.

[Narna]

haha I put I just got home twice

[Narna]

Yee, Zakk gets me

[Narna]

Yo House, is it mostly me or mostly "I'm too afraid to post" pepto who is causing the scumread for you?

[Narna]

Yo House, is it mostly me or mostly "I'm too afraid to post" pepto who is causing the scumread for you?

Why do you assume the reason people scumread pepto is fear of posting?

Because Pepto was obviously afraid of posting. See the 12 posts of fence sitting followed by a replacement.

I haven't read all of them yet, but that's what I was seeing. I'm claiming town obviously.

[Narna]

I wonder where Narna is.

Something came up last night. I'm almost halfway through the thread, and I'll be able to post in earnest tonight.

I like blade, not chara, and creature for town so far. I'm not a big fan of zakk, mcmenno,

or pepto.

all three of your town reads are kinda null reads for me.

i'm willing to be swayed to town for them, but haven't really seen good reasons why (not that they don't exist; please point them out to me)

pepto i think is scum too. i'm town, and i think mcmenno is town.

let's talk.

They've shifted ever so slightly. I'm less sure about NC. Creature is a hard townread for me now. He has been consistently trying to generate discussion and move the lynch away from this turd. I don't have too much experience with Creature, but I don't see his lists looking like they do, or that 1shot bp gambit coming from scum!Creature. I agree with Titus' reads for the most part, especially on Mcmenno and Nahida. She remains a townread.

I became a big fan of yours with 609. I was mostly scumreading you for your interactions with House after following his vote and the vengeful soft seemed awfully premature (I didn't remember how many votes you had at the time, so I could be off there). However, I like to scumpost to provoke people and garner reactions as well. All of your posts up to 693 were agreeable too, but Magna is keeping me on edge in regards to you. I'm leaning town for now.

Why is Mcmenno town? He has sat on this Pepto vote all day, and a lot of his posting could go either way. I think he has an association with either you or Nahida (more likely the latter). Early on in the game House and co were calling for a Giga or Zakk lynch, but he votes Pepto, who had only had one post, without commenting on either Giga or Zakk. House had also just said that if Giga flipped scum he'd gun for Pepto by association. It's odd to skip the first part of that without commenting on it.

[Narna]

Giga looked really scummy, and I did not see his calling for a PL of an alt as a joke. The only post of theirs I really liked was the replace out, and that's because they threw some shade on the wagon on Pepto. Nahida was looking more null, but hopping off Mcmenno once they acquired some votes to chase Cakes seemed a little weak. I know this is the confbias speaking, but it makes Mcmenno x Nahida more likely.

VOTE: Mcmenno I'm game for a Nahida lynch at the moment, but I think this is the safer bet given he could have actually been trying to divert people from going for Zakk instead of Nahida.

I don't like the Magna wagon. I like how he's been trying to sort Zakk with both meta and for some of the antitown behavior regardless of meta (the spam and possible motives for posts). It rings town to me, even if I disagree with the read.

[Narna]

I still believe that most replacements are nai. There's not much of a point to this game if you're going to bail the second your seat heats up. Pepto's account has a low post count, so I doubt they care that much about their winrate.

I want to interact a bit before making a bigger reads list.

[Narna]

that's decent enough

unvote,

VOTE: Nahdia

Aw man, you were supposed to be the sleeper scum that no one was talking about.

How has your read on Accountant developed since your pepto vote? I'm null/weakTown on them myself from mostly gut, but if they commit to that 1 post a day thing, he deserves a bullet.

[Narna]

Well I don't think they would seriously only post once a day, so it's unlikely he would earn the bullet. I see what you're saying there and agree. Scum could do it to wine town out, but Accountant played similarly (as town) in the other large game I played with them.

[Narna]

So what alignment does that make more sense coming from objectively Narna?

Scum typically, but the dude was pretty much universally scumread for his first post. I could see it coming from either side at that point.

Which are the higher odds?
1. He translated it somehow within 6 minutes.
2. He already knew what it said.

Narna, same question to you.

Fish harder, he translated it.

Yeah, no.

Zakk was at L-3. Pepto did the day elongation to prevent town slapping the hammer on him. He did it and knew what the message said without having to translate it.

Not Chara just said that she knew Pepto submitted it. She talks about caps/not caps, which nobody really give 2 shits about, since the point was Pepto did the message.

House all but called me town, then when I start down the road to catching Pepto and NotChara, he votes me.

Zakk was to be saved.

Scumteam includes:

Narna
Zakk
Not Chara
House


Convince me otherwise.

Vote: Narna

scum/10 He just used ~wingdings~ to justify a vote on me.

[Narna]

Nahdia

I'm still down for a Mcmenno lynch and with the new addition of pv.

[Narna]

vote: Nahdia

fix'd

[Narna]

And never you mind my previous bout of insanity. I assure you it was temporary and I've resumed my meds.

Is this referring to both of your recent Titus

and

PV reads? Because I kind of saw what you were getting at with PV. It was a tad reachy, but PV's participation in the wingdings conversation coupled with his vote looks like bullshitting regardless.

[Narna]

Woohoo we have the winning wagon again.

VOTE: Mcmenno

full disclaimer: i'm not listening to that

i haven't like what menno has been doing for a while and calling titus scum on thlast page was the final straw for me

To be fair, I do think Nahdia did a great job at throwing doubt onto Titus here

if pepto's town I'm all ear for a nahdia lynch

Other:

McMenno and Peptobislawl; I think there's 1 scum and 1 town in there. Really not sure which is which, could lynch either atm but would appreciate seeing content from a Pepto replacement beforehand obviously.

does this not look like setting up a mislynch to you

Not sure why you would immediately come to that conclusion based on you being so confident pepto is scum.

VOTE: McMenno

Basically you're just jumping ahead to the part where you're push is lynched and seeing yourself as the next target so you're trying to give an alternate. That's how I see what you just did and now I'm definitely leaning you being the scum in the two.

Strange that you've been pushing on me, Titus, yet you need me to quote random snippets of my ISO that somehow escaped your notice. Been slacking on your homework, hmm?

[Narna]

town:

Creature -gut/weak meta, I'm really confident in this one for now.

townlean:

Gamma -If this is scum, he is god at feigning derptown. I really liked a few of his posts, so I'm thinking that's not the case.
House -Strong start to the game, and I like his pushing on PV and Titus despite it not being popular at the time. I don't like the backpedal on Titus, but I don't see scum motivation there.
Magna -My gut tells me the "no names used" nitpick would stand out to much for scum to post. More importantly I think he's one of the only people trying to sort Zach instead of simply giving a read of "town/scum" on them. He's also attempting to sort other players harder than most of the playerlist.
Zakk -Town
Titus -I agree with the people she's choosing to lynch, but I'm not sure about the reasoning. I don't think it's anything substantial enough to go against my reads yet, but it's what put her as a lean. Not jumping on me is another plus.

Null:

Maxous -I have a sinking feeling that he moved off from me too easily, but I like the PV and Mcmenno votes.
Not Chara -The only fully rational person during ~wingdings~ I'm not a big fan of how they vote Titus after House repeals his read on her despite being present when it was brought up.
FB/Accountant -Welcome FB, Accountant played nearly a near identical game to Wake's large game up to and including replacing out. They were town, but it seems like an easy style to replicate.
SlySly -They seem to be playing an older style with the miller thing and wanting "more info" from the lynch. It's nai to me, but they have some of the more unique reads this game (in a game with some stale reads shared between most players), so flips should help sort him.
Ankamuis -He's not really pushing much in my opinion, but his reads seem to be pretty independent.
Leonshade -I Kinda liked his reads list. He's still pretty much a no show.
Snarky -It's Snarky.
Shiro -It's Shiro.
Massive -It's whoever this is.
Nosferatu -Waiting for the catch up
Sir Cakes -I wasn't a fan of him making a point of Andrius' list alone deserving a scumread, to only vote the same person Andrius planned to. However he does a much better job at calling out Nadhia than Nadhia does on him. I remember his earlier posts not settling well with me, but I'm aware this is probably a playstyle thing.
Andrius -Some of his early posting seemed forced. Comparing Creature to Not Chara in an effort to call NC scummy comes to mind, but I'm blanking on others. His reads list was alright.

Scumlean:

Nahdia -Ironically, I'm mostly scumreading Giga. This isn't alignment indicative, but I think it's bad for town to bury a claim in an hour long clip since only one mafia member needs to sift through it. Abandoning their Mcmenno push when a wagon was forming looks fishy, and I'm curious to see where they go with the Magna wagon dead in the water.
PV -I didn't like the timing of his vote on me. He could have made the same vote at any time, but chooses when Nadhia overtakes me as the prevailing wagon to do so. He is making a

huge

assumption in thinking that Pepto made the message because he translated it. He's also leaving his vote parked on me after multiple people agreed that the wingdings conversation was bad and pointless.

Scum:

McMenno -There's my weak associatives I mentioned earlier. He's been coasting on Pepto, and hasn't made a push much stronger than a throwaway post all day. It's a little convenient that he makes another hard scum accusation after being called out on it.

I do think it's likely that someone out of House, Zakk, Titus, and Not Chara is scum, but sadly I'm currently reading them mostly town individually.

[Narna]

Neglecting to read is scummy whether you've done it before or not.

It's anti town, not scummy. Yay semantics

What you are saying would imply that not listening to Nahdia's hour long reads list (before the mod called foul) is also scummy. Why didn't you call out people for that?

[Narna]

Neglecting to read is scummy whether you've done it before or not.

It's anti town, not scummy. Yay semantics

What you are saying would imply that not listening to Nahdia's hour long reads list (before the mod called foul) is also scummy. Why didn't you call out people for that?

The mod took care of that. I was about to point out how posting that audio was breaking the rules and scummy right before I saw the mod post about it.

Fair enough, I was thinking of it as a scummy gimmick myself.

[Narna]

Yume replaces House. Welcome to the game, Yume!

Creature, here's your cue. Shiro, you won't know what this means.

what is this

no seriously does anyone understand what this was in context? i feel like im looking at something that was intended for a scumthread or something here. what the heck is this?

My guess is creature going for the the bp claim gambit hat trick.

[Narna]

*the your slot claimed bp

[Narna]

@Shiro, I would like you to elaborate more because McMenno is textbook Denmark repeat.

I do not even remember him bein gin denmark, are you mistakin ghim for dwee ?

No.

McMenno ISO matches Davesto almost flawlessly.

.......


menno isnt davsto though.

If it walks like scum, and talks like scum, why are you townreading it?

What is this? Do you normally compare two different players from two different games to convince people?

[Narna]

Yeah, if the shoe fits. I have been developing the "always scum" tell for awhile.

Second, I studied social psychology and sociology in college. I apply them in hunting.

We all do when we say certain things are "townie" or "scummy".

I get that. It was a bit of a scumtell in my old im mafia games to do that directly since no one was saving chatlogs.

Good response.

[Narna]

What you are saying would imply that not listening to Nahdia's hour long reads list (before the mod called foul) is also scummy. Why didn't you call out people for that?

Very scummy to suggest that a post the Mod very explicitly said was illegal has the same weight as legal game posts …

It's part of the game, and people were claiming not to have followed it. I was pushing Sly for a reaction. It seems like a protown move to me, even if a little weak.

Do you think Creature slipped here?

Not doing it, it's already pointless.

If Yume is scum, scum should have already told her about it.

Nvm.

[Narna]

No, I am just used for scum having confirmed daychat in large theme games.

That was addressed to Magna because he seems to have given you a pass there when Nahdia was not.

Mod - I'll be V/LA from basically now til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. Including taking impressionable tweens to haunted houses ..."

Did anyone else have the thought that Nosferatu probably wouldn't be so clueless about who is in what slot (not realizing Blade Dancer & Giga have been replaced) if he were communicating with a scumteam? Cause I mean, that sprung to mind but I'm sort of struggling with whether the whole premise of that being towny is dumb and bad.

Have I mentioned lately I love when scum just take for granted that their Daytalk is common knowledge when nothing in the rules from the Mod indicates Daytalk is in effect?

I really love it ...

[Narna]

PV, did Nahdia translating your message faster than Pepto translated Skullduggery's affect your assumption that I'm responisble for the Gaster message?

Everyone should be in agreement that we end the phase soon. It's unlikely, but there is the off chance of the deadline being shortened as well.

[Narna]

PV, did Nahdia translating your message faster than Pepto translated Skullduggery's affect your assumption that I'm responisble for the Gaster message?

Because it doesn't look like it has

[Narna]

i don't think the deadline was shorted. like you said, unlikely.
i do want to consolidate on a wagon.
why do you still have Titus as town? 2153 suggests doubt, and you say you simply agree with her opinions while disagreeing on her methods. in my opinion, reasons for feelings are more important than if their reads are correct when it comes to determining if someone is scummy.

It was early day 1 when Blade Dancer pushed Mcmenno, so the reasoning was bound to be more flimsly than I'd like. I liked Blade Dancer quite a bit, so it was still carrying over, hence why my read on them spoke of the slot like it was dropping. I don't really think they are town anymore. This is a bit crackpot, but does Titus, especially early Blade Dancer, look like a hard bus attempt from Titus?

[Narna]

My shifting Titus read is kind of the same thing I'm on mcmenno for. They both have pretty much tunneled weak early reads for 100 pages. The bus thing stems from me feeling like this (mcmenno) lynch will not go through with Nahdia and I, and an assumption that Titus would also recognize this.

[Narna]

Because it's easy

Fine, you tunneled your

strong

early reads for 100 pages.

[Narna]

I'd rather go after PV or Magna again, but I'd be ok with lynching Leon.

[Narna]

VOTE: Leon

I'm kind of over speculating for busses.

[Narna]

[quote="In post 2566Narna: i'm not sold on Peregrine, i still think he's town. Leon can go on the backburner. Magna, i'm in the midst of sorting.[/quote]
What makes pv town, and what changed since you started the earlier Magna wagon?

[Narna]

He did a test to see if his theory was tinfoil or not, and someone else passed the test. He then goes along with the theory anyway. That looks like bullshitting to me. Slysly's translator role theory seems to be more like something that would have come from town (assuming you like nonsense ideas as town).

[Narna]

ewwwww

FoS: Leonshade wagon

FoSing Nahdia and Narna, where did you get these nerves of steel?

[Narna]

you keep firing what little ammunition you have, Titus.
i know you don't have any, because i'm right. you're not accusing me of erroneous or misapplied meta. you're not even asking for clarification. you're barely pushing me, and what you are saying is entirely vague issues you apparently have with my play, yet cannot pinpoint.

Cakez: where am i wrong with Titus? look at her recent posting.

It's titus being titus. I have a pretty strong gut townread on her now and my gut reads on her are usually right.

vote narna then

There's no wagon

There are the same amount of people on me as there are on Leonshade which you just referred to as a wagon. Do.It.

[Narna]

My shifting Titus read is kind of the same thing I'm on mcmenno for. They both have pretty much tunneled weak early reads for 100 pages. The bus thing stems from me feeling like this (mcmenno) lynch will not go through with Nahdia and I, and an assumption that Titus would also recognize this.

Fuck off on this being a weak read. No one has given a single concrete reason for McMenno being town despite days of me prodding. Now, as for this being a weak case, that's what scum used in Denmark too. This case is as solid as they come without a slip.

People don't feel the need to defend someone from a weak read. I don't normally read into games I wasn't a part of, but I'll check it out when I get off of work if this game hasn't progressed.

[Narna]

revote right this second

Without using the names Pepto or Giga, how am I scummier than Nahdia? An inquiring me wants to know.

[Narna]

Mcmenno just caught me; have a gander everyone.

[Narna]

But don't forget to ponder

[Narna]

Without using the names Pepto or Giga, how am I scummier than Nahdia? An inquiring me wants to know.

Scum response - "You can't suspect me for my predecessors whose play was pretty blatant ... I've got a replacement halo and everything"

So you ignore giving Creature a pass on "assuming scum has daytalk" to throw shade on my wanting an opinion of my play. Mcmenno just said Nahdia was not as scummy as me, but wanting to know why is a scum move apparently. Everyone has read Pepto's posts, and I have yet to be lynched for it. Enjoy your vla halo if you don't get wagoned again here.

VOTE: Magna

[Narna]

NC, when I said no one would vote mcmenno with Nahdia and I, I meant with us on the wagon. These two votes feel more like because of Titus than us, but the point still stands. Mcmenno is getting votes now that we have left the wagon.

[Narna]

NC, when I said no one would vote mcmenno with Nahdia and I, I meant with us on the wagon. These two votes feel more like because of Titus than us, but the point still stands. Mcmenno is getting votes now that we have left the wagon.

sorry, i'm blanking on what you're responding to.

uhh here. It was delayed because phoneposting at work is a bitch

My shifting Titus read is kind of the same thing I'm on mcmenno for. They both have pretty much tunneled weak early reads for 100 pages. The bus thing stems from me feeling like this (mcmenno) lynch will not go through with Nahdia and I, and an assumption that Titus would also recognize this.

i think McMenno has a better chance of going through than either you or Nahdia.
i don't like to look at bussing too much on day 1, with no flips. looking at them independently, which do you think is more likely scum?

just checked up on McMenno's voting history. he's still on your slot, and hasn't changed votes since. i didn't realize that until now.
but i don't have the knowledge about McMenno that i do about Titus. so he feels vaguely... 'eh', whereas Titus just feels very bad.

pedit: McMenno, say Narna isn't happening today. who would you lynch instead.

and if I didn't answer the second part, mcmenno I gesso

[Narna]

This vanity wagon is pointless VOTE: Mcmenno

I'm not buying into NC being scum for now.

[Narna]

Yeah, let's roll with "convenient"

I think they are town, and you are being really nitpicky here.

[Narna]

So you ignore giving Creature a pass on "assuming scum has daytalk"

to throw shade on my wanting an opinion of my play. Mcmenno just said Nahdia was not as scummy as me, but wanting to know why is a scum move apparently. Everyone has read Pepto's posts, and I have yet to be lynched for it. Enjoy your vla halo if you don't get wagoned again here.

On the bolded – correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t you give Nahdia a pass on that exact issue when I pointed it out?

The rest of this post is a diversion from the issue at hand – you specifically asked Creature why Nahdia was not as scummy as you and framed it that only your and Nahdia’s contributions could be used as evidence. That’s a load of bull – just because Pepto and Giga replaced doesn’t mean that their posts aren’t viable evidence as to the alignment of your slot.

The point is that I was consistent in giving both Nahdia and Creature the pass. You on the other hand have have been inconsistent in that regard, for seemingly no reason. Your whole reply here is a diversion from having to answer why you thought it was ok for Creature to assume scum had day talk, but not for Nahdia.

This isn't going to be our lynch today, but do well to remember MoI is scum.

[Narna]

The point is that I was consistent in giving both Nahdia and Creature the pass. You on the other hand have have been inconsistent in that regard, for seemingly no reason. Your whole reply here is a diversion from having to answer why you thought it was ok for Creature to assume scum had day talk, but not for Nahdia.

It’s not the same issue at all. The first time it is brought up (as I saw Nhadia doing it) it is a valid possibility of a slip. After that point it is made public and the whole discuss means an assumption of Daytalk is an artifact of the initial conversation.

So no, Creature saying “Scum have communicated with Yume” after I pointed out Nhadia’s slip isn’t the same.

I notice you’ve attempted to completely drop the issue of your scummy “Don’t talk about Nhadia being less scummy than me with an reference to our predecessors” . So I guess you know you are busted on that point and are hoping that diverting the conversation will make people forget.

I already said my piece about that post, and you are twisting my words. Hell, you're changing them.

[Narna]

I don't want Ank hammering, but do want the lynch.

[Narna]

I already said my piece about that post, and you are twisting my words. Hell, you're changing them.

If you really thought I was scum doing this you’d have demonstrated me doing that instead of just “throwing shade”. That’s why you are scum not Town.

And “having said your piece” is just further dodging of the issue. Keep it up scum …

I never said that anyone couldn't scumread me for Pepto's behavior. I never faulted anyone for scumreading Pepto. There is no issue, and you misquote me saying, "don't scumread me for pepto." Here is my quote.

revote right this second

Without using the names Pepto or Giga, how am I scummier than Nahdia? An inquiring me wants to know.

[/quote]
Notice that I am talking to mcmenno, and not Creature like you said. In "my piece" I already explained that I was trying to sort mcmenno, and wanted to know if I had made him more or less sure of his read.

[Narna]

I never said that anyone couldn't scumread me for Pepto's behavior. I never faulted anyone for scumreading Pepto. There is no issue, and you misquote me saying, "don't scumread me for pepto." Here is my quote.

You asked McMenno to explain why Nhadia was less scummy than you without referring to Pepto or Giga.

How is that not explicitly saying "You can't hold the scumminess of my predecessor against me in your read on my slot"?

Because I wasn't being accusatory or dismissive. I pressed for mcmenno to expand on his read. Everyone already knew how he felt about Pepto. Do the "insert fake quote that I can argue against here" thing one more time homie, it's really selling your point.

[Narna]

VOTE: Magna

Fuck Magna, but why is this taking off now? Not a soul commented on my earlier push on him after his first wagon died.

[Narna]

The problem with this phase is that everyone is tripping over wagon composition in a large game with zero flips.

[Narna]

I would go Titus if it happened fyi
I can't remember anything Magna has posted (i tend to skim his posts because walls)

tl'dr case pls

I don't know about the others, but I don't like that he called out Nahdia for assuming scum had daychat and not Creature. His excuse was that any talk after the first mention of this being a scumslip was pertaining to the conversation about assumed daychat, so it isn't a slip. However Creature was not talking about that conversation at all and even throws in a nevermind afterwords once Creature realized what he did. This is about scumreading Magna, not Creature though. He's also twisting my words to pretend that he's scumhunting.

[Narna]

What's going on? Are you people just sheeping zakk because you don't have any scumreads?

DOES ANYONE VOTING FOR MAGNA OTHER THAN ZAKK ACTUALLY SCUMREAD MAGNA?

Yes

I would go Titus if it happened fyi
I can't remember anything Magna has posted (i tend to skim his posts because walls)

tl'dr case pls

I don't know about the others, but I don't like that he called out Nahdia for assuming scum had daychat and not Creature. His excuse was that any talk after the first mention of this being a scumslip was pertaining to the conversation about assumed daychat, so it isn't a slip. However Creature was not talking about that conversation at all and even throws in a nevermind afterwords once Creature realized what he did. This is about scumreading Magna, not Creature though. He's also twisting my words to pretend that he's scumhunting.

[Narna]

Leon, this is how my 2564 was supposed to be read

I'd rather [the town] go after PV or Magna again, but I'd be ok with [the town] lynching Leon.

If you think scum is going to lie for absolutely no reason (aside from bussing Magna because why would scum want to ensure they get credit for a mislynch?), then I doubt I'll be convincing you of much. I barely pushed pv, and let it slide when he ignored me. I barely pushed Magna, but he didn't ignore me. I don't see how you can read the posts Magna was throwing at me, and then claim my read on the slot changing was sudden.

[Narna]

ebwop: I don't see how you and nos can read the posts Magna was throwing at me, and then claim my read on the slot changing was sudden.

[Narna]

unfortunately, i didn't have time to recheck Magna.

i looked, but i can't find why Narna decided to jump off McMenno there in the least. similarly to Titus, there's little pressing of the McMenno lynch to actually go through, after Narna rejoins it.

Narna, i'd like you to talk about what exactly is going on with your vote progression.

Narna?

i never had a problem with your Magna read. i want to know about McMenno -> Leon.

I was talking to you when I said I didn't think Mcmenno would go through as the lynch today (which I'm seemingly not wrong about. We are still here in d1 despite Mcmenno reaching L-1 with a useless claim and multiple people actively on the look out for hammers). The wagon on Mcmenno was stalling at the time. Most had already said the people on the wagon (Nahdia, Titus, and I) were shit or just sat on their hands. The only recent activity was a couple of lurksacks in Leon and Massive joining it with Nahdia's departure. I didn't feel like my vote was doing anything at the time, and Nahdia's 2561 and 2562 were on point and worthy of sheeping.

On switching back to Mcmenno, his wagon blew up once Nahdia and I left it, and he was/is my strongest scumread. We have no flips, I am a-ok with scumreading two people individually who might make for unlikely teammates. I also said something about people needing to grow a pair and trust their reads instead of doing fuck all because of the wagon compositions on

a flipless d1

. My

[Narna]

Narna's more likely town than Magna is.

this is in line with what he's said previously on the subject. i misunderstood his first answer.

which answer?

[Narna]

VOTE: Narna

Hey look at me not hammering McMenno, and not looking to hammer my scumread.

Why?

[Narna]

@Narna:

I'd like to know your top SRs and TRs.

My top scum reads are Mcmenno, Magna, PV, you, and my weaker reads would be Andrius and Gamma.
These townreads aren't so strong right now, but Zakk, Not Chara, Nahdia, and Creature.

[Narna]

Spoiler: Gamma quotes

Is the Magna wagon alive? PLEASE TELL ME THE MAGNA WAGON IS ALIVE
VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

No. I townread both Narna and Nahdia; neither of those are happening if I can help it.

DO NOT EDIT MY SHIT YOU JERK
NARNA IS A TOWNREAD
DO THAT AGAIN ON A TOWNREAD OF MINE AND SUFFER BITCH

Yes I scumread Magna his pushes,

especially

on Narna, have felt scummy.

Yes I TR Narna, because she doesn't feel super-opportunistic, like her predecessor. Even then, I had trouble seeing Pepto as scummy so it wasn't very hard to become a townread.

I am in favor of the Narna wagon now though.

LET'S FLIP NARNA
(╯°Д°）╯︵ /(.□ . \)

VOTE: Narna

Can we lynch this isntead please?

Vote:Gamma

Like there is only two posts 1 from NC and one from Leon that could have affected this change in beetween here but it is very weak to change a read like that.

Shiro is alright.

[Narna]

Yes I TR Narna, because she doesn't feel super-opportunistic, like her predecessor. Even then, I had trouble seeing Pepto as scummy so it wasn't very hard to become a townread.

Not that I feel "hasn't been super-scummy" is a good reason to TR someone anyway, but now that I've read his ISO, I disagree on Narna's opportunism. Look at Narna move from his top SR to Nahdia in 2067 when there's a wagon on her (not scummy in and of itself), then never interact with her (this is where it starts getting scummy) before moving on. I've already said that I felt the wagon on me was opportunistic. Narna's jump was especially opportunistic, as there's no sign of him SRing me before then (he had me as null with "I like his reads" before) and he's jumping from the wagon on McMenno, who's been his top SR up to that point, to me,

after I also joined the McMenno wagon

. The wagon on his top SR was growing and he jumped off to vote for the lurker.

Nahdia provided plenty of content to form an opinion on. If you read the part of the game surrounding where I voted you, you should have picked up on multiple people objecting to the Mcmenno wagon. All of the counter wagons when I switched to you were on the biggest pushers of the Mcmenno wagon (Titus, Nahdia, and I). I even expressed my concern of the wagon stalling before Nahdia even voted you in in 2550. I didn't believe that a lurker openly sheeping Maxous would breathe life into the wagon

This feels like you just iso'd me to find a reason to push the lynchbait. It also sounds like you would have townread me if I just tunneled my top scumread all phase. I'm pretty sure that's what Mcmenno is doing, and you voted him over three other competing wagons.

[Narna]

I thought I was pretty clear before that I prefer you or Nahdia hanging today.

Do you intend to hammer me?

VOTE: narna

Alright.

I am in favor of the Narna wagon now though.

LET'S FLIP NARNA
(╯°Д°）╯︵ /(.□ . \)

VOTE: Narna

Vote: Narna

Including Maxous' vote here despite him changing it already seems manipulative.

[Narna]

Including Maxous' vote here despite him changing it already seems manipulative.

yes when I was catching up and saw max vote you I TOTALLY knew he was going to change his vote later

gotcha

Also Maxous's reads are a steaming pile of crap, just put those in a corner[/quote]
Ooh that is an obvious catch up, huh. My bad on the shade friend.

[Narna]

ebwop

yes when I was catching up and saw max vote you I TOTALLY knew he was going to change his vote later

gotcha

Also Maxous's reads are a steaming pile of crap, just put those in a corner

Ooh that is an obvious catch up, huh. My bad on the shade friend.

[Narna]

So how about we go back to lynching the useless claim today?

[Narna]

But replacements are nai, and the silent replace out makes this slot lynch bait.

[Narna]

except pepto has a history of silent replace outs as scum you butts

Pepto didn't silently replace out in that game.

[Narna]

bullshit ninja'd

[Narna]

Gamma, both Maxous and Not Chara went back on their scum reads on me once I got to respond. Why not you?

[Narna]

The post does make more sense when interpreted like that, and the rest of your play doesn't give me evidence that you meant otherwise. Why did you "barely" push PV if he was one of your top scumreads?

Because I was being ignored, and the thread is big enough as it is without me repeating myself over and over.

Explain your scumread on Gamma.

His townread of me was short lived and awkward. He calls me opportunistic scum because you said so, but his vote pattern is the most opportunistic in this game. He also hasn't reaffirmed his read after I cleared up a possible misconception. The people who were swayed by you rescinded their scumreads, but not Gamma who brought up townreading me twice before that. He's just leaving the vote there as the not-deadline approaches.

I joined the McMenno wagon because I was sheeping Maxous, as I explained back then. I didn't even know why Maxous, or anyone else, was scumreading him. I would not consider your slot lynchbait, I was SRing your predecessor and I SR'd what I saw in your ISO. I don't think you should just tunnel your top SR, but outside the Magna push, your ISO did not show much pushing of your wagons. Hell, I specifically pointed out your time on the Nahdia wagon because you did diddly squat to advance that wagon, you just sat on it for a while before moving on. Your defense of yourself on these last few pages is more passionate than your time on the Nahdia wagon

P-Edit: I write the above and then I notice you spent 2-3 posts on the Nahdia wagon before moving on to McMenno. Leaving the above in for posterity's sake.

I mean, Mcmenno is my strongest read, and I started agreeing with enough Nahdia posts to go back.

[Narna]

I wonder if Snarky's win condition is ensuring no lynch takes place?

Leon, this is how my 2564 was supposed to be read

I'd rather [the town] go after PV or Magna again, but I'd be ok with [the town] lynching Leon.

If you think scum is going to lie for absolutely no reason (aside from bussing Magna because why would scum want to ensure they get credit for a mislynch?), then I doubt I'll be convincing you of much. I barely pushed Jining pv, and let it slide when he ignored me. I barely pushed Magna, but he didn't ignore me. I don't see how you can read the posts Magna was throwing at me, and then claim my read on the slot changing was sudden.

The post does make more sense when interpreted like that, and the rest of your play doesn't give me evidence that you meant otherwise

. Why did you "barely" push PV if he was one of your top scumreads?

3275: I don't think that Nahdia's case was worth sheeping, but Gamma joining the wagon does leave a hole in that argument. Then again, Gamma seems to join every wagon that someone is willing to push.

This explains the second half of his [post=#p8442543]3235[/post], and I explained my thought process regarding my vote progression. I can understand not buying it, but I'm not going to let you just slink away quietly while the not-deadline is near.

[Narna]

3235 I can't keyboard today.

[Narna]

Do we finally have a lynch?

I do not really like them if it comes to it though I will move to magna since i like it composition more

P.edit

Wait? We got 1 hour ?

[Narna]

vote: mcmenno

this should have been our lynch yesterday.

If he is scum, the front of the moi wagon is scum.

[Narna]

I don't have anything to protect me. Why are you still voting me if you think Andrius was roleblocked nahdia?

[Narna]

Tldr you aren't allowed to change your read on someone in a 130 page day, or else slysly might selectively omit your reasons for the change of opinion in is quote wall.

Slysly smells.

[Narna]

Well first note that my initial townread on Magna was mostly a gut read.

Spoiler:

What you are saying would imply that not listening to Nahdia's hour long reads list (before the mod called foul) is also scummy. Why didn't you call out people for that?

Very scummy to suggest that a post the Mod very explicitly said was illegal has the same weight as legal game posts …

It's part of the game, and people were claiming not to have followed it. I was pushing Sly for a reaction. It seems like a protown move to me, even if a little weak.

Do you think Creature slipped here?

Not doing it, it's already pointless.

If Yume is scum, scum should have already told her about it.

Nvm.

No, I am just used for scum having confirmed daychat in large theme games.

That was addressed to Magna because he seems to have given you a pass there when Nahdia was not.

Mod - I'll be V/LA from basically now til Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties. Including taking impressionable tweens to haunted houses ..."

Did anyone else have the thought that Nosferatu probably wouldn't be so clueless about who is in what slot (not realizing Blade Dancer & Giga have been replaced) if he were communicating with a scumteam? Cause I mean, that sprung to mind but I'm sort of struggling with whether the whole premise of that being towny is dumb and bad.

Have I mentioned lately I love when scum just take for granted that their Daytalk is common knowledge when nothing in the rules from the Mod indicates Daytalk is in effect?

I really love it ...

He ignores my inquiry, and instead throws shade on my slot.

Without using the names Pepto or Giga, how am I scummier than Nahdia? An inquiring me wants to know.

Scum response - "You can't suspect me for my predecessors whose play was pretty blatant ... I've got a replacement halo and everything"

I then switch back to Mcmenno because no one cares for my slot, and the Mcmenno (my top scumread) wagon was popping off.

These interactions after make me more confident in my Magna scumread. I switch back because the Mcmenno wagon suspiciously fails.

Spoiler:

The point is that I was consistent in giving both Nahdia and Creature the pass. You on the other hand have have been inconsistent in that regard, for seemingly no reason. Your whole reply here is a diversion from having to answer why you thought it was ok for Creature to assume scum had day talk, but not for Nahdia.

It’s not the same issue at all. The first time it is brought up (as I saw Nhadia doing it) it is a valid possibility of a slip. After that point it is made public and the whole discuss means an assumption of Daytalk is an artifact of the initial conversation.

So no, Creature saying “Scum have communicated with Yume” after I pointed out Nhadia’s slip isn’t the same.

I notice you’ve attempted to completely drop the issue of your scummy “Don’t talk about Nhadia being less scummy than me with an reference to our predecessors” . So I guess you know you are busted on that point and are hoping that diverting the conversation will make people forget.

I already said my piece about that post, and you are twisting my words. Hell, you're changing them.

I already said my piece about that post, and you are twisting my words. Hell, you're changing them.

If you really thought I was scum doing this you’d have demonstrated me doing that instead of just “throwing shade”. That’s why you are scum not Town.

And “having said your piece” is just further dodging of the issue. Keep it up scum …

I already said my piece about that post, and you are twisting my words. Hell, you're changing them.

If you really thought I was scum doing this you’d have demonstrated me doing that instead of just “throwing shade”. That’s why you are scum not Town.

And “having said your piece” is just further dodging of the issue. Keep it up scum …

I never said that anyone couldn't scumread me for Pepto's behavior. I never faulted anyone for scumreading Pepto. There is no issue, and you misquote me saying, "don't scumread me for pepto." Here is my quote.

revote right this second

Without using the names Pepto or Giga, how am I scummier than Nahdia? An inquiring me wants to know.

Notice that I am talking to mcmenno, and not Creature like you said. In "my piece" I already explained that I was trying to sort mcmenno, and wanted to know if I had made him more or less sure of his read.

I never said that anyone couldn't scumread me for Pepto's behavior. I never faulted anyone for scumreading Pepto. There is no issue, and you misquote me saying, "don't scumread me for pepto." Here is my quote.

You asked McMenno to explain why Nhadia was less scummy than you without referring to Pepto or Giga.

How is that not explicitly saying "You can't hold the scumminess of my predecessor against me in your read on my slot"?

Because I wasn't being accusatory or dismissive. I pressed for mcmenno to expand on his read. Everyone already knew how he felt about Pepto. Do the "insert fake quote that I can argue against here" thing one more time homie, it's really selling your point.

I broke the quoting and it will not let me break up the second string of quotes.

[Narna]

The McMenno wagon doesn't interest me. zakk was pushing for Magna the hardest, so I don't think that Magna was the counterwagon to McMenno. Magna may have been the counterwagon to Narna, though.

VOTE: Narna

Magna was a counter wagon to me twice last phase. It doesn't mean I'm scum.

[Narna]

Unvote

Pepto's ISO wasn't as bad as I remembered, I could see him as lynchbait as much as scum. Narna satisfactorily explained my biggest scumtell (the Magna thing) and I noticed one of my others (not pushing reads) was flawed, too. The only thing left is jumping on my wagon, and at that point I'm essentially SRing him off of OMGUS.

Yup, I got nothing. Nahdia's my only SR left, and that's a leftover from Giga, too.

Did the town flip make my explanation less satisfactory somehow?

[Narna]

Unvote

Pepto's ISO wasn't as bad as I remembered, I could see him as lynchbait as much as scum. Narna satisfactorily explained my biggest scumtell (the Magna thing) and I noticed one of my others (not pushing reads) was flawed, too. The only thing left is jumping on my wagon, and at that point I'm essentially SRing him off of OMGUS.

Yup, I got nothing. Nahdia's my only SR left, and that's a leftover from Giga, too.

Did the town flip make my explanation less satisfactory somehow?

No, but your explanation didn't make me townread you, it just made me doubt my scumread on you. The townflip and the way the Magna wagon played out makes me think counterwagon, and I think you're more likely scum than McMenno.

This doesn't scream "Mcmenno counterwagon" to you?

Spoiler:

Day 1, Vote Count #30

Current Vote Count:

(0)

zakk

(0)

SirCakez

(0)

Yume

(0)

Maxous

(2)

Creature -- Leonshade, Gamma Emerald

(0)

PeregrineV

(1)

Titus -- SnarkySnowman

(0)

Shiro

(0)

MagnaofIllusion

(0)

Nosferatu

(2)

Nahdia -- Yume, Ankamius

(0)

Firebringer

(4)

Not Chara -- zakk, Andrius, MagnaofIllusion, McMenno

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

SlySly

(10)

McMenno -- Maxous, Titus, massive, Creature, Firebringer, Nahdia, Not Chara, Narna, SirCakez, PeregrineV

(0)

SnarkySnowman

(0)

Narna

(1)

Gamma Emerald -- Nosferatu

(0)

Leonshade

(0)

Andrius

(0)

massive

Not Voting:

Shiro, SlySly

With 22 votes available, it takes 12 votes to hammer.

Day 1 will end...eventually.
Countdown: 362476 days, 10 hours, 32 minutes

Day 1, Vote Count #32

Current Vote Count:

(0)

zakk

(0)

SirCakez

(0)

Yume

(0)

Maxous

(1)

Creature -- Leonshade

(0)

PeregrineV

(1)

Titus -- SnarkySnowman

(0)

Shiro

(6)

MagnaofIllusion -- zakk, Nahdia, Gamma Emerald, Not Chara, Firebringer, Narna

(0)

Nosferatu

(2)

Nahdia -- Yume, Ankamius

(0)

Firebringer

(2)

Not Chara -- Andrius, MagnaofIllusion

(0)

Ankamius

(0)

SlySly

(5)

McMenno -- Maxous, Titus, massive, Creature, PeregrineV

(0)

SnarkySnowman

(2)

Narna -- SirCakez, McMenno

(1)

Gamma Emerald -- Nosferatu

(0)

Leonshade

(0)

Andrius

(0)

massive

Not Voting:

Shiro, SlySly

With 22 votes available, it takes 12 votes to hammer.

Day 1 will end...eventually.
Countdown: 362476 days, 10 hours, 32 minutes

[Narna]

yeah I was pushing you all day and when a me wagon took off my scumuds were all "well diddly daddly darn, gotta join the narna wagon!"

I was saying the Magna wagon was the counter to you, but hey, you said it.

[Narna]

The one pushing the hardest for the Magna wagon was zakk, who flipped town. No doubt there was scum on the Magna wagon, but as I've expressed earlier,

the chances are just as likely that they saw McMenno's useless claim and decided to go fishing for a town PR instead.

Are chances really "just as likely" though? Are you claiming the Mcmenno wagon was scum fueled until the lame claim?

[Narna]

ah I knew I should have just jumped down your throat instead of asking the obvious question to make you double check your opportunism.

[Narna]

(12)

MagnaofIllusion -- zakk, Nahdia, Not Chara, Narna, Firebringer, Maxous, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, SirCakez, Leonshade, Shiro

D1 thoughts from those who lynched MoI:

hmm yeah
zakk strong-armed this wagon abut flipped town. who helped him? Nahdia, Not Chara and Narna I guess.
according to my reads scum were on the tail-end of the wagon but that would mean the magna wagon was strong-armed by all town?
it's possible but I would guess not.
honestly, maybe we should be lynching on this wagon.

YES.
YOU JUST SAID IT.

Zakk, CONFIRMED DEADTOWN, just led a wagon, which was SUPPORTED by THE N CLAN. Who are scum. It fits perfectly with the oh lets just sheep someone town onto someone otherwise impossible to lynch.

I was pushing Magna all by myself at one point during the day, but clearly I was just sheeping town. Try again. Also, you should be shooting Massive and "town"feratu for "having no presence". The later also blatantly sheeped onto Magna, but apparently it's only scummy if your name starts with an- oh wait...

[Narna]

The House slot needs to be put out of it's misery tonight.

[Narna]

I don't think Yume was vla, and she flaked on the entire lynching portion of the day. There is no way Giovanni catches up to the thread, especially given that they don't seem to even be around. I'm pointing out better vig targets than myself so Andrius can ignore them because he's hyper tunneling.

[Narna]

Andrius you mention me being in your top scumreads all day last phase, but don't even hint as to why until 2851. Your earlier posts calling me scum seem to be you trying to dodge the Mcmenno wagon, and now you finally come out saying I'm scum because Moi was a counterwagon. It's such a weak read unless I'm missing something.

[Narna]

Which three?

You did Zakk, but the other two are...?

Andrius (tried to shoot Narna & myself) Shiro (had some investigation return nothing on McMenno)

why did you flavorclaim though

VOTE: McMenno

Look at the scum trying to save their buddy narna

I mean, her vote on me for not dying was kind of contradicting the fact that Andrius had to have been roleblocked/failed action for her to be town. Those are some slick tunnel shades you got on though.

[Narna]

I'm not saying that Nahdia doesn't look bad there, but it was a needed move for her independent of me or my (predictably) being wagoned.

[Narna]

Andrius you mention me being in your top scumreads all day last phase, but don't even hint as to why until 2851. Your earlier posts calling me scum seem to be you trying to dodge the Mcmenno wagon, and now you finally come out saying I'm scum because Moi was a counterwagon. It's such a weak read unless I'm missing something.

I like how you finally come out to address me.
Took long enough. Is it because I'm actually a threat to you now?

And no.
Not Chara was always my top D1.
However.

The fact that you were his counterwagon AND was an early supporter CANNOT be ignored. So yeah.

Get over yourself. I don't need to defend myself from hollow scumreads, but your maintaining of me

in your top

reads for no reason the entire day and then confbiasing out on d2 because of the flip at the end of the day, and not anything from the actual phase is at best lazy townplay. At worst, it's you saving Mcmenno's life because muh wagon composition.

I also don't feel like dodging bullets all game when there are lurksacks and whatever Firebringer is doing that need to be dealt with.

[Narna]

The fact that you were his counterwagon AND was an early supporter CANNOT be ignored. So yeah.

I was against the Magna wagon in it's first iteration, and I thought you said I was scum sheeping Zach. Get your story straight.

[Narna]

BUT WAIT ANDY
NARNA VOTED BEFORE TITUS
SEE?
Titus started the McMenno wagon yesterday. All you did was beat her to the thread.

I literally wasn't in the game before Titus voted Mcmenno last phase. Be better, do better.

[Narna]

Even if I were behind Titus today, that point is still garbage. If you didn't see a Mcmenno vote coming, you aren't paying attention to my posts.

[Narna]

I figured Titus would vote Mcmenno baring any night shenanigans. So did I pass?

[Narna]

Greetings, everybody.

I don't think Yume was vla, and she flaked on the entire lynching portion of the day. There is no way Giovanni catches up to the thread, especially given that they don't seem to even be around. I'm pointing out better vig targets than myself so Andrius can ignore them because he's hyper tunneling.

I am around, I just don't play on other games. Yes, it is incredibly difficult to catch up, however, because Day 1 was a 135 page mess, and despite reading Day 1 for three days straight, I am still at a mild loss. There is also the fact that since I am new here, I don't have meta reads on most of you. Anyway, if I see that I cannot keep up, I will myself ask to be replaced. I heavily dislike playing to prod-dodge.

I have some comprehensive "questions" regarding Day 1. As far as I get it:

1) zakk voted MoI and the so-called "N cult" (lol) jumped out of the shadows (as well as Firebringer and Gamma Emerald) and turned his single vote into a wagon. zakk and MoI seemed to have some past mafia rivalry going on.

2) Around 3250 and onwards there was a Narna wagon that seemed to go strong opposite the MoI wagon. It was then onwards that you begun to start being in a hurry to lynch because the day would end. It resulted in a MoI lynch with many players on the Narna wagon compromising because the folks over at the MoI one wouldn't, also because there were a lot voting third party.

3) Out of the "N cult" members, Narna is now under the most scrutiny because:

a) She was the counterwagon to MoI's wagon.
b) Her reasons for voting MoI seemed shaky and her vote seemed opportunistic because she scumread MoI out of the blue.

Is the above generally correct and complete or have I missed something?

1) Most of those players had started a wagon on Magna way earlier in the game, but it's formation is a little suspicious as Mcmenno was at L-1 before the 2nd Magna wagon.
2) Sounds good, it might be important to note that the deadline was uncertain due to a dubious many year extension. That was the original deadline.
a) Yee
b) Shaky is one thing, but I vanity vote MoI before the Mcmenno and my 2nd wagon took off. I've covered my reads progression on MoI too many times, but I feel that it should at least be known that I was scumreading him through my interactions with him before the 2nd wagon on him takes off.

Magna is a he.

My apologies Magna.

I mean Narna.

Apologies again.

It's cool replacement crazy enough to try and catch up. You're cool.

[Narna]

Happy Halloween/site recovery, I'll likely be mia tonight.

Andrius, don't shoot me, and what makes the real ass N crew scum together?

[Narna]

I basically don't give two shits to talk at this point.

The more I talk, the more people unvote McMenno. He needs to be lynched, therefore, I have to shut up.

This x2

I'll update my reads list in the night/morning.

[Narna]

I stand by scumreading mcmenno for coasting on his weak pepto vote. Him flipping town doesn't make me scum. I'll post that reads list when I get home.

[Narna]

The mcmenno wagon stalling at L-1 on d1 with multiple people trying to hammer is still dubious, and I feel is also a justifiable reason to vote him d2.

[Narna]

That's real nice Cakez.

Andrius who did you shoot at?

[Narna]

No one else?

[Narna]

Town -> Scum
Massive - Not voting me during the free mislynch without trying to take credit for being against a Narna lynch looks like definite townie play.
Not Chara - They usually say what I feel like I would have said before I can (minus the flavor stuff). If they're scum, I need to seriously reexamine my play.
Ankamius - I think scum would have hammered the useless role claim during d1 if it gave him a power up.
Snarky - I agree with him about Giovanni, and I'm not really jiving with most of the playerlist.
SirCakes - This is mostly that I'm thinking Nahdia is scum, and doubt these two are together. His push on me is also too weak for scum.
Almost50 - Gamma looked slightly better right before replacing, and A50's entry is ok as long as they keep up.
Shiro - Null - I probably would have scumread him if he didn't hammer Magna, but that doesn't mean he can't be scum.
Firebringer - Null, he is hard to read for now.
SlySly - I really don't like the hammer only business and the certainty with which I will flip scum, but they have townslipped once or twice. The big thing right now is that I remember you saying the no voting wasn't role related. Is that correct Slysly?
Leonshade - Him backing off from me to lynch what turned out to be town doesn't really do much for me, but refusing to change his vote because he let me "get away" would be scumplay.
Titus - I'm not a fan of the vote on me today. The lynch today was already prepped by virtue of Mcmenno being town, and all Scum!Titus would need to do is prep their vote on me today. Which they did last phase.
Creature - He's seemed more lurky since my initial read of him, and him flip flopping on me because of a vague "I'm different" is no bueno.
PeregrineV - ~Wingdings vote~ Voting Mcmenno with me is also suspicious. I'm actually not sure if he still scumreads me.
Maxous - This is all gut, but he's almost too clean. He comes across as surprisingly townie for someone who has pushed both mislynches. Also look at all of the townies on this list
Giovanni - House bloating the thread isn't too big of a deal for me, but the slot not participating in the final days of d1 looks bad, and this vote is literal vomit.
Nahdia - I reread the early game, and Giga still sticks out. The ate was also heavy until being called out on it. This seems like scum behavior, especially if their scum meta is ate heavy.

Third-Party
Andrius - a 3-kill power that isn't working. It seems too risky for scum to needlesly out, but too strong for town if it ever works. He's also hard tunneling on me, boo.

[Narna]

Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

[Narna]

Consider me educated, scumbo.

[Narna]

Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

Why massive
N1 result?

I knew going to sleep was a mistake.
Claim doesnt change much

He survived n1, so I figured it was unlikely he would be shot, and I wanted to sort the hard lurker.
I missed the deadline for n1 by 20 minutes. Skullduggz didn't give it to me. I chose the House slot for flaking on crunch time d1.

[Narna]

Tell you what Narna. If you do flip town, I'll throw Andrius in jail in your honor.

I'd rather not get lynched for "muh counterwagons"

[Narna]

Ok, I reread early Nahdia, and I may have been off base with the ate. I still think the recording is more useful as a scum gimmick, but that's just kind of gut. I guess they can go in between Titus and Creature.

I'm also warming up to this the more I think about it VOTE: Maxous

[Narna]

The wagon on me is bad. Scum me could have claimed being roleblocked since multiple roles failed. You guys will be trying to lynch Maxous eventually.

[Narna]

We should at least wait for Massive to give some kind of input since he will be confirmed town.

[Narna]

Town doesn't want to scumhunt, whee.

My flip is fake, and sorting giant question marks with a powerful role makes no sense.

[Narna]

I'm being death lawyered, you actually caught the scum.

[Narna]

Scum has no reason to say that either. Why is it only "I don't even" from town

[Narna]

Town doesn't want to scumhunt, whee.

My flip is fake, and sorting giant question marks with a powerful role makes no sense.

I don't think this is within the parameters of the signup thread.

You caught me. I'm town.

[Narna]

I gave reads like two pages ago. I recommend not speed lynching provable roles for no reason.

[Narna]

I mean,

I don't see the pro-town motivation in using such a powerful role on massive of all people.

This is fucked, there was no way massive was getting sorted without bullets or an investigate. Leon incorrectly discredits me. Kill this, kill Maxous for expressing concerns, but not doing anything or looking elsewhere (refusing to scumhun).

Fixed the quote tag.
~Skull

[Narna]

Slysly this mislynch was so obvious. Is everyone on this wagon an idiot too, or is cool because the star player hammered?

[Narna]

I didn't call everyone an idiot. Slysly was the one doing that. My whole wagon was pointless this entire game.

[Narna]

Lynching MoI and McMenno was idiotic. I was pushing for Shiro.

And me, which had very little reasoning outside of lolpepto. Yet we let the infinitely scummier giga carry on with their more difficult to prove role.

[Narna]

I don't think she's gamesolving.

She's not.

[Narna]

No one is gamesolving

[Narna]

Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

This role sounds broken as hell. He didn't even give night 1 results initially.
Look at the scum trying to back off the wagon now

Why does scum want to back off from the townie wagon sircakez?

[Narna]

Creature is town again guys.

[Narna]

Lynching MoI and McMenno was idiotic. I was pushing for Shiro.

And me, which had very little reasoning outside of lolpepto. Yet we let the infinitely scummier giga carry on with their more difficult to prove role.

I tried to talk to you about Pepto's abilities and you were just a bitch in response so I ignored you the rest of the game. I was down with hammering giga. Y'all were camped out on McMenno. I told you he was town. Just like I told you MoI was town.

Which are the higher odds?
1. He translated it somehow within 6 minutes.
2. He already knew what it said.

Narna, same question to you.

Fish harder, he translated it.

This is hardly bitchy, and a lame reason to just blanket assume I'm scum for the rest of the game.

[Narna]

Oh dont worry Narna.
Not Chara will join you soon.

At least make it Nahdia.

[Narna]

Maxous - This is all gut, but he's almost too clean. He comes across as surprisingly townie for someone who has pushed both mislynches. Also look at all of the townies on this list

so i'm too towny
i didn't "push" Magna, you plebs sickened me with a 130 page Day 1 to the point where I was supporting any lynch
admitally i do think i need to re-consider my reads-list, it's been poor so far

This is a scum response. He's down to lynch anyone as long as they're town. The placing of townies vaguely low on his reads list supports this.

[Narna]

Yeah jailing doesn't prevent investigations.

[Narna]

I'm town here, no bullshit.

[Narna]

06 PeregrineV - Lurker!PeregrineV = Scum!PeregrineV
08 Shiro* - Usually a lurker
17 SnarkySnowman*** - Usually a lurker

PV lurks hardcore until late game. If I'm wrong here someone else correct me, but framing this as scum pv while listing Shiro and Snarky as chronic lurkers seems manipulative.

[Narna]

We're not seriously switching to LaL after three days of apathy. Town is boned.

Kill Maxous, Giovanni, and Titus.

[Narna]

Andrius is tp, jail his ass, and deal with im later.

[Narna]

How do you feel about Titus Leon? Please reconsider on Maxous as well

[Narna]

Don't toy with my heart like this shade of Leon.

[Narna]

I've got a few lines with your name on em Leon.

Woo happy day.

[Narna]

Massive and Leon are hardcore town

[Narna]

Maybe now we'll get someone who places a purposeful vote at any point during the game.

I love this game.

[Narna]

Massive and Leon, are you guys thinking Creature is town? I wanna add him to the townblock (assuming Massive thinks I'm town).

[Narna]

Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

Did you clarify about scum? Are they considered "having the ability to kill" if they never performed the nightkill? (Basically, do you capture the fact they have the factional kill, and not just someone who USED the factional kill?)

They would have the ability to kill, even if it is unused, so yes they would have it.

[Narna]

Dammit Shiro

I am Gerson - Psychologist

I can investigate a player every night and find out if they have or have had the ability to kill up until that point. So Massive has had no ability to kill as of n2, and therefore he is town.

Did you clarify about scum? Are they considered "having the ability to kill" if they never performed the nightkill? (Basically, do you capture the fact they have the factional kill, and not just someone who USED the factional kill?)

They would have the ability to kill, even if it is unused, so yes they would have it.

Why no Andrius check?

Would getting a positive on someone who claims to have a killing role really do anything for sorting the game?

[Narna]

Would getting a positive on someone who claims to have a killing role really do anything for sorting the game?

Yes. #facepalm

No joke takebacks.

The positive wouldn't be alignment indicative, and if I were using it to check if he was lying and he actually can't kill, he isn't mafia. That doesn't seem as helpful as uncovering a secret killer.

[Narna]

Twilight was long because there is a governor. Leon governs within ten minutes of his posting after the hammer. The phase was also rushed, so I could understand waiting for things to be discussed in thread.

[Narna]

VOTE: Maxous

Disingenuous my ass.

[Narna]

What posts of mine feel like I knew I was going to be governed?

I have an idea of my own, but I would like to confirm what changed Leon's mind too.

[Narna]

Twilight was long because there is a governor. Leon governs within ten minutes of his posting after the hammer. The phase was also rushed, so I could understand waiting for things to be discussed in thread.

And how do you know how Leon's governor works?

Governors typically extend twilight, no?

[Narna]

Twilight was long because there is a governor.

Leon governs within ten minutes of his posting after the hammer.

The phase was also rushed, so I could understand waiting for things to be discussed in thread.

And how do you know how Leon's governor works?

Governors typically extend twilight, no?

I am referencing the bolded.

Where did that come from?

I'd go for Giovanni, PereV, Almost50 or Andrius if not Leonshade.

I don't want to lynch any of these people.

Shiro I could see as scum, but if Narna's flipping town I don't know why scum!Shiro would get off the Narna wagon after the claim.

9 minutes pass

Govern: Narna

[Narna]

Do people believe Giovanni here?

This is the second time Creature says he wants to lynch Maxous and I. My objection here is that I am a weak role who targeted Maxous at night, so, barring shenanigans, I should have been dead if he was scum.

[Narna]

Titus frustratingly asking for my reads and recommendations makes it seem like they are expecting a town flip.

I do not have the patience for bullshit right now Narna.

Cut the crap and give reads and recommendations.

Lets wagon this VOTE: Titus

[Narna]

Titus frustratingly asking for my reads and recommendations makes it seem like they are expecting a town flip.

I do not have the patience for bullshit right now Narna.

Cut the crap and give reads and recommendations.

Lets wagon this VOTE: Titus

Lol. I had been townreading you but that's a standard question to ask.

Scum give tells, town get last reads.

So you lynch your townread, ask for your townread's opinions in twilight, and your first response to someone pardoning your townread is to scumread both me and the governor? That doesn't look like townplay.

[Narna]

What made you pardon me?

[Narna]

Maxous and Giovanni first. Maybe Almost50 too.

I'm enjoying this .. A LOT. Wanna do 1-on-1? Or would you rather shoot me at night?

And as for Narna; if he says something like "I'm being death lawyered" it most probably stems from him knowing there is a death lawyer in the game

. We thus cannot be 100% positive all flipped players were town. After all, this is explicitly a bastard gamer, is it not?

Hello? Have we played in the same game before?

[Narna]

zakk - flavour cop

not that useful. Requires game knowledge and you would have to catch the scum player out in a lie claiming a character.

menno - lazy coroner

not useful until he survives very late into the game which is hard to do.

Titus - Vanilla cop

Only way you're busting scum with this is catching them lying about being vanilla

Giovanni - weak follower

so he can clear people every even night (so not right from the start) but it will cost him his life and requires proper crumbing to nail scum. better than the rest but has it's obvious limitations

Shiro - presume rolecop

assuming he's a rolecop based on his behaviour. Could be useful finding a scummy role but most of the scum probably have roles that seem towny on the surface, so not that useful.

narna - psychologist

gets to know who can make a kill ( so can't be godfathered ) and no limitations to usage apparently. drawback is that he could get false positives on vigs but minor drawback compared to all the rest above.

TL;DR:

Spoiler:

Before my lynch the narrative was that we had too many cops for me to be one for balance reasons, and now it's that the cops are too weak so I stand out. Lets avoid the confirmation bias.

vanilla cop is the most suspicious claim here. almost certain this is role madness.

So? Wake's Role Madness had a Vanilla Cop AND a Neapolitan too.

Yeah, Not Chara's scum.

All the town roles had severe negative utility in some way. Yet Narna doesn't. This seems a game designed to punish lynching based on role power, as scum likely have all the powerful roles as fakes/real roles.

My role does punish blind following of my results since alignment switches are very likely to happen. My role wouldn't be written like this otherwise. Either way this is pure setup spec, and I don't think it's worth lynching our gov for.

[Narna]

Why not Andrius? He said he hasn't failed his role, was vague on his n2 targets "Narna and the others", and is pleading to not be roleblocked with a questionable cop gift. People are going to start dropping like flies if he is left unchecked and unblocked.

[Narna]

Maxous and Giovanni first. Maybe Almost50 too.

I'm enjoying this .. A LOT. Wanna do 1-on-1? Or would you rather shoot me at night?

And as for Narna; if he says something like "I'm being death lawyered" it most probably stems from him knowing there is a death lawyer in the game

. We thus cannot be 100% positive all flipped players were town. After all, this is explicitly a bastard gamer, is it not?

Hello? Have we played in the same game before?

What's that even supposed to me?

We just went through this in Wake's game. Is it more likely that I was scum outting our own bastard mechanic, or that I was being facetious/trolling?

[Narna]

Narna you're stretching.

I've been quite clear I'm submitting kills on you Chara and Nahdia until you're all dead.
Doesn't mean I HAVE kills but I'm submitting them.
And skulldug is humoring me.

You smell like gasoline.

Paranoia aside, the Leon wagon is bobo. By virtue of me having a strong town role, him pardoning me makes him town. People have already pointed out how saving me would just out two mafioso if it came from scum. Given Giovanni and Andrius' claims, Titus is the likely mafia on the wagon.

[Narna]

I think Andrius is third party. I think you are mafia.

[Narna]

I think Andrius is third party. I think you are mafia.

And why are you third party hunting? Andrius's "claim" was farcical on its face. Yet, you believe he outright claimed 3p? Do you expect a 3p based on your scum team size?

I'm voting and pushing you. I didn't read it like that, and I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about my read on Andrius. Lets try to work out the game from a starting point that isn't Narna is scum.

[Narna]

I think Andrius is third party. I think you are mafia.

And why are you third party hunting? Andrius's "claim" was farcical on its face. Yet, you believe he outright claimed 3p? Do you expect a 3p based on your scum team size?

I'm voting and pushing you. I didn't read it like that, and I'm not sure why you're so up in arms about my read on Andrius. Lets try to work out the game from a starting point that isn't Narna is scum.

You want to work out Creature or Not Chara then?

Point blank: Why are you trying to convince me you're town if scumreading me?

There are people other than you that I think are stuck in that mindset.

I'm townreading Not Chara and am leaning town on Creature.

[Narna]

Titus was trying to push a mislynch on Leon so people can lynch me afterwords with a "leon was wrong."

[Narna]

Whereas, if I die first, Leon is towncleared baring alignment shifts.

[Narna]

Narna went to confscum based on wagon behaviors.

Because this method of scumhunting has gotten town so far this game.

[Narna]

can you point out the specific wagon behaviors?

[Narna]

Narna went to confscum based on wagon behaviors.

Because this method of scumhunting has gotten town so far this game.

One of these days I'm going to actually lynch you.

I'm spooked.

[Narna]

Leon is one of the most obviously town players in the game. Scum motivation to say he'd never unvote me, and then go ahead and pardon me is not there. The "mafia changed their mind" logic is stupid as if there were even the slightest amount of chance that he'd flip flop, he wouldn't have said that. Changing your mind like that looks undeniably town unless you guys see me flip red.

[Narna]

Your opinion on leon is pointless, we know you're scum

What do you do once I flip town? We are in agreement on Leon and it seemed like you were scumleaning on Titus a few pages back. You're probably town, but this tunnel is devoid of reasoning. It's just an assumption based on wagon composition with zero scumflips.

[Narna]

VOTE: Almost50

Titus is still scum, but that isn't going anywhere with me on it. Gamma was incredibly opportunistic with his voting, and just parroted people. A50 "thinks" Cakez is bussing me and has Leon as a townread despite posting whatever #4784 is. #4174 is a massive over justification for his hammer on Mcmenno, and the whole, "Why would you claim?" thing is a load of bull. It's also really strange to say #4297 if you're "drop dead, scum" reading me. It looks to me like you were preparing for a townflip and vying for whatever small towncred you can get from the day.

[Narna]

I understand Narna's claim may be fictitious if Narna is scum. Narna's result, however, is an actual result. You are asking me to do some high-level tin-foil hoop-jumping to get to a point where I don't at least believe Narna has access to that result. Calling it "nonsense" is just you trying to alienate me. Is that your game plan here?

That result access just means she's scum and you're town. Gunsmith is easy to fake as scum.

We should be publicly dictating who Narna checks. Worse case scenario, we get associatives. Who do you think she should check?

Aren't I getting lynched tomorrow? I don't think I have much of a good reason to be leashed.

[Narna]

Aren't I getting lynched tomorrow? I don't think I have much of a good reason to be leashed.

You do. The result, if town and honest, clears up a lot and essentially nets us a scum or conftown after your flip. By being leashed, your result is the most helpful. If you're scum, you want free reign.

I think it would create a lot of needless roleblock wine, should (when) I get roleblocked to avoid a chance to clear myself/catch scum. I could see myself

maybe

going from a pool of people. I clear or implicate someone whether I am leashed or not. I would like free reign with my investigative on either alignment, maybe even moreso as town.

[Narna]

Do people believe Giovanni here?

This is the second time Creature says he wants to lynch Maxous and I. My objection here is that I am a weak role who targeted Maxous at night, so, barring shenanigans, I should have been dead if he was scum.

Another cop-esque claim? I could only buy this if Shiro was scum, and even then it's iffy.
Giovanni since you already claimed what's your other result?

I have no other result. My ability is even-night (Night 2, Night 4 etc) only.

I went back and read your posts.

Can you consider yourself an average or above player?

I consider myself just an average player with his ups and downs. Here, I am definitely on my downs. I seriously cannot get a grip on the game.

The problem I have with your weak claim is that in absolutely none of your posts did you crumb who you were targeting, so that in the event of your death, we would be provided with ZERO information. Even as an average player, I think you would know that.

Address thisx10

I claimed an inno on massive Titus. Don't pretend to townslip on me.

[Narna]

Nana, you claimed massive lacked a killing ability. Much like a gunsmith, I would believe that is not an automatic clear.

While it means he is likely clear, he could be a mafia doctor.

I did not remember you claiming an innocent on massive because that is NOT true, even if honest.

I thought docs could kill, but were immune to gunsmiths (which I am technically not). Leon makes a good point with the whole my role didn't have enough drawbacks to fit in the game, but it isn't even good enough to clear someone bit.

[Narna]

Titus is still scum

VOTE: Titus

[Narna]

Also, anyone remeber who has pushed the McMenno wagon?

Titus and I, but I get powerlynched for it.

[Narna]

cleared how?

[Narna]

Every one of a50's posts sound so forced to me. Am I the only one feeling this? Also a50, why are you so sure Creature is scum again? I remember you saying he was mcmenno's scumbuddy, but that turned out false.

[Narna]

To be fair EVERY LYNCH BUT NARNA IS A COMPROMISE LYNCH

I'm town, blow me

[Narna]

Actually leonshade
I'd lynch that governor hard

No you wouldn't that would be horrible play.

[Narna]

Every one of a50's posts sound so forced to me. Am I the only one feeling this? Also a50, why are you so sure Creature is scum again? I remember you saying he was mcmenno's scumbuddy, but that turned out false.

I feel you, Bern scunreading the slot since before he replaced in.

Think we can stage a grand push for glory there?

We should push titus for glory. I'm a little on edge about a50 because you and creature didn't seem to receptive of my earlier push on a50 until deadline started approaching.

I'm still down, but would really prefer titus.

[Narna]

Titus or a50 should be the lynchees. Pv what's your read on them. I'm pretty sure allignment shifts are a very real possibility, so I don't know about the effectiveness of info lynching Giovanni like that. He and maxous have definitely looked half baked this phase though.

[Narna]

Do.not.lynch.leonshade. that is so fucking backwards. There is zero reason to off leonshade before me. Leon's role is even testable.

VOTE: almost50 for glory.

[Narna]

Do you think scum has a governor who can pardon every day? I don't like outguessing the mod, but that is seriously broken. I just claimed "strong town role who was pardoned by the gov." It's obvious why I would defend him.

[Narna]

inb4 someone claims the serial killer is leading all the wagons today

I missread your don't have a killing ability nonsense, so I dropped the tp read a while back. The whole ploy was still needlesly misleading and anti town.

[Narna]

1.Bastard game
2. Doesn't have to be every day
3. Potential for lying
4. You know you're next once we lynch your scumbuddy

I'm being lynched whether he town or not because no one wants to scumhunt this game. However, if I flip town or find scum today, we will know leon is town. You're trying to do this in the wrong order.

[Narna]

inb4 someone claims the serial killer is leading all the wagons today

I missread your don't have a killing ability nonsense, so I dropped the tp read a while back. The whole ploy was still needlesly misleading and anti town.

It's k because I got to watch you under the glare of I shot you you didn't die.
Worth it.

Did you legitimately shoot at me or not n1?

[Narna]

Also.
Governing was needlessly misleading and anti town.

Saving town who was lynched 18 hours into a phase is anti town.

Yupyupyup

[Narna]

If we lynch one of Narna/Leonshade and they flip town, will the other be very likely town?

No
It means nothing

Find the scum motivation in pardoning a hypothetical town!Narna.

[Narna]

If we lynch one of Narna/Leonshade and they flip town, will the other be very likely town?

No
It means nothing

Find the scum motivation in pardoning a hypothetical town!Narna.

Easy. Gain town cred by saving town!Narna. Kill Narna in the night to show she's town. scumLeon shining bright.

I don't think scum wants to stick their neck out just to nightkill the free lynchbait they have for towncred. That sounds like a horrible idea.

[Narna]

Town is losing this game by flipping town!leon and then town!narna. We can probably survive one mislynch. Which is why we shouldn't dice it all on leon now.

Read a50's iso, and tell me he's done anything remotely proactive or helpful.

[Narna]

Narna has been part of the N-block from the beginning. I would hardly call her "widely townread". Go read what Leon himself said about her right before he did a 180 and governed.

-----

Andrius, of course.

Are you intentionally missing ank's points? Leon was in a good spot, and I'm a free lynch. Scum would never nk me.

[Narna]

Do not lynch leonshade. Don't buy into Andrius' false dilema. We can still lynch scum in titus or a50. We have time.

[Narna]

Yeah I'm the one fearmongering when Andrius says it has to be x, y, or draw

[Narna]

You want to start a vanity wagon this late in the day?
No.
You are only wanting to do something now that its your and your buddies necks on the line.

I've pushed Titus and a50 all day. Both Creature and Shiro have expressed interest in a50 yet haven't voted them, NC expressed interest in Titus, but isn't helping here. hmmm.

I also defended Leon well before deadline during his first shittastic wagon, so this only now that my buddy's neck is on the line due to the deadline is a bit unfair.

[Narna]

Cakez also expressed interest in a50 without voting them, but I'm townreading that slot more than the other two at the moment.

[Narna]

You didn't re-read the game. You didn't reevaluate your reads.
You say on your arse on a dead end wagon waiting for us to forget about you.
You were given a second chance and you squandered it.

Yeah I've been a universal scumread since before I caught up with the game during my replace in. How much clout do you think I have? People are giving up left and right due to apathy, but the guy who literally sees wagons grow the moment they hop off of them (see magna and mcmenno) is expected to try super hard to influence lazy town? Get bent.

[Narna]

No.
The townies are the ones who are dying.
They are the ones suffering through this game and slogging in the wreck on 219 pages of filth we created. They are fighting for reads and the one good lynch we had was thrown in our faces.

What even is this post?

[Narna]

And no.
We don't have time.
We had time, they cried, and then we squandered it and Magna was lynched.
We had time, they cried, and then we waited around and let scum lead the Menno lynch.
We had time, and we lynched you. And we were betrayed.

The townies weren't the ones laughing at the govern.
They were the anguished. For only we lost something.

I think you need to calm down.

Leon is 100% town. I can settle on Creature, if only to keep everyone from abandoning. I'd rather settle for NC, and I'd rather not settle on for sure scum in Titus or maybe a50.

[Narna]

NC expressed interest in Titus, but isn't helping here. hmmm.

That's because they're scum who are too hesitant to do anything on their own.

Then let's deadline that? It's probably the wrong choice, but Leon is definitely incorrect. No lynching would be infinitely preferable because I'm scum independent of Leon ya. Just lynch him after me.

VOTE: Not Chara

[Narna]

If you were a universal scumread your be swinging long before now.
Magna would still be here, for one.

Well thankfully enough people realized that my wagon was bullshit on d1. I can at least understand the pushing Moi and Mcmenno bit, but what was so damn anti town that phase?

[Narna]

And on the 200+ pages of slog to struggle through. Keep in mind the House and Gamma slots are guilty of flooding this game with nonsense and blindly agreeing with people, only to immediately 180ing on things (the latter being in Gamma's case). Neither have actually lynched shit as well.