Micro 649: Normal Idea Mafia (Game Over)

[Tere]

Hi guyz, what's going on?

/mollie

Reads list incoming...

[Tere]

Welp, you lot don't give me a lot to go on. It's like a mafia game where everyone is posting in haiku, lol.

Here's where I am at.

Town:

Tere

, for I am the towniest town who ever towned.

Leonshade

is my next strongest townread - I see town thought processes and pushing the gamestate forward. I liked the push on reso at 95 and his interactions around the 80s and 90s in general.

Gamma Emerald

is a decent townread but it's more of a toneread. Frustration at 72 looks genuine, liked his vote on reso, thinking again gelling with what I was thinking reading through.

At this stage I am uninterested in voting anyone above this line toDay.

Null / lurksacks / lynchbait

itlepip

needs to come out of RVS and actually play the game. The slight town lean on him is mainly because my scum reads are pushing him and he's lynchbait. Because the day 1 hammer was legit bad and he should feel bad if town. Bad itlepip.

McMenno

I know from experience can be a filthy lurksack if town. I played against him as scum in a game last year (Marquis' Pokemon) and we gleefully strung him out as lynchbait which the town snapped up. I get a very slight town feel from 93 but that's about it in terms of alignment indicativeness. Snark is slightly town possibly? Ugh.

Scummy

Sgz13

- Voted reso in RVS. I found the sequence of posts to 92 a bit off, hedgy, and thought the interaction with reso at 101 could be scum talking to each other. The vote on Gamma out of the blue at 111 certainly could be scum trying to take pressure off their partner. I no likey.

reso

Entrance at 15 pinged for me as awkward noobscum. I disliked his post at 85 suggesting a policy lynch on itlepip but not committing or the votepark at 91. The ATE at 107 but then not replacing out I really dislike as well. Dude, if you are busy just replace out, don't give an excuse and not play the game. It's not fair on anyone.

I am happy to lynch either Sgz13 or reso at this stage but want to get people talking first. We got very little out of Day 1 because of the quickness of that hammer. Let's not do that again plz

[Tere]

What is /mollie

It's Pirate Mollie's intro to every game.

[Tere]

What is /mollie

It's Pirate Mollie's intro to every game.

Are you a pirate mollie alt?

Nope. I am a Tere. I've played with her a lot though, onsite and off, hence the joke.

[Tere]

That's probably fair. Can you give me a link to a couple of more recent ones, scum and town? Ta much

[Tere]

A reads list would be cool, too. I get you want itlepip to eat rope, but what's your opinion on everyone else?

[Tere]

Town games:

Dumb ways to lynch
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67523

Marvel Dual Universe Upick:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=67782

Unfortunately I do not have any recent completed micros as scum, but I do have some large themes:

Summer Mafia:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67110

Wake's 42p Role Madness:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67827

Thanks!

What I got from that:

Snark isn't alignment indicative.
You will help the game state if town and you lurk less now. Good!
You can make mistakes as town (the hurting zyf not eggthing in the first link). This makes me feel better about your L-2 slip on Day 1.

[Tere]

Sgz13 His iso is bad especially these posts

What's an iso?

If you look at any post you will see a link called ISO at the top of them. Click on that and you see the players posts as a single list. Can be very useful for reviewing. You can also click on the activity overview at the bottom of each page.

[Tere]

Why in the world would I not just vote itlepip if I wanted pressure off my buddy reso Tere?

Well, one decent explanation is that if itlepip is town he is lynchbait atm and your buddy reso was pushing him? At the point of your vote he had two votes on him, McMenno and reso. Moving yourself to him would push him to L-1 and make you both look very conspicuous.

[Tere]

Well, one decent explanation is that if itlepip is town he is lynchbait atm and your buddy reso was pushing him? At the point of your vote he had two votes on him, McMenno and reso. Moving yourself to him would push him to L-1 and make you both look very conspicuous.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Right. So, what's your read on reso? (plus what's your reads in general).

@reso what's your read on Sgz13? (plus what's your reads in general).

@itlpip can you please get out of RVS and give us some reads also?

[Tere]

Um, because it's a really terrible idea because maths?

We had a lolhammer and a successful NK, so now at 2 scum 5 town. Jaack might have bodyguarded Leonshade (it's what I would have done with that role) but can't prove that. Whatever.

Policy lynch now and if he's a VI we are at 2:4. Successful NK and 2:3. Lylo tomorrow.... It's been a while but I think that's the maths.

Are you happy to vote reso and if not why not? Be specific

[Tere]

Also what in particular about Gamma is bothering you? I personally am not so bothered by votes shifting, to me it indicates willingness to read the gamestate.

[Tere]

Feel very slightly better about Sgz13.

Itlpip is still posting elsewhere. Check his site iso. 1088.

I am busy tomorrow but will have a couple of hours Thursday, can dig for site meta then.

Still very happy with reso lynch.

[Tere]

Might feel better about Mcmenno also. /stateoftheTere

Sleep well

[Tere]

Sorry guys, a migraine is kicking my arse. I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Tere]

Posting like the wind. Will have more time tomorrow.

Heartache has done nothing to redeem that slot. Still unsure about sgz. That tell you are banging on about re: predecessor frustration is shite, I've done precisely that as town.

Leonshade isn't back till the 16th I think.

I feel a bit better about McMenno based on the "I'm not a lurksack, oi!" interaction and the fakehammer.

I don't think BYG is scum rn and I am not prepared to hammer.

[Tere]

You = Gamma re tell.

[Tere]

VOTE: Heartache

[Tere]

I need to catch up both here and elsewhere but this has been bugging me so I am dumping it in here first.

OK, so itlepip is posting elsewhere, so clearly the replace wasn't a site flake. Obviously can't comment on that one so thought I'd look through his previous games to see if there's a trolling pattern. I'm ignoring hydras because fuck figuring out hydras (ditto crazy larges) and just doing the last few months. You guys can go back further if you want.

Town:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=65320 68 posts, looks town enough, replaced out.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=64287 70 posts to day 3 NK, again looks town enough.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 54 posts to Day 5 lynch. Again looks OK on a brief skim.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 Replaced in, 40 posts, replaced out. Still don't see trolling.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 101 posts. N1 NK. (this was a weird game but I think blue is town and the NK suggests so)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 222 posts, endgamed. Again posting is direct and no trolling.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 single bah post of rage (replaced in and was immediate NK)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 Treestumped N2 157 posts.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 Endgamed 142 posts.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 Endgamed 62 posts (short game)

Now back to January so just noting scum games as I go back further. Essentially I haven't seen a town game where itlpip has trolled and acted anti town in my skim of these. Two replace outs.

Multiball scum, so still had to scumhunt:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 Fire goon. 146 posts (made it to last night) but obv multiball is more active.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 A mighty 4 posts, basically came in and hammered! (which looks similar). Cross Killed N1.

Scum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 29 posts, Day 2 lynch. He's not trolling here but is a lot less engaged. BTW this is the latest scum game I could find way back in March.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 51 posts, endgamed. Again not trolling but a lot less engaged.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 143 posts, lynched Day 1. This I think is an outlier because he was Godfather and clearly had a complete blast playing. Also Day 1 lynch as Godfather, dude, you had one job, lol.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26723 167 posts (to the middle / bottom of the pack, this was a LONG game!). Didn't see a lot of trolling but was skimming like the wind.

What I am taking from this:

1. itlepip clearly enjoys town, there's very little evidence of trolling in his town games, although he's replaced out a couple of times. From skimming his posting looks pro town when he is town, he is low on the bullshit.
2. itlepip hasn't played scum much. He seems to enjoy it when it's a fun role / team (Godfather, Midsummer Night's Mafia) but is also less engaged in other games.
3. itlepip has form at lolhammering as scum (the second multiball).

In all honesty this doesn't look that great for BYF. If he flips scum I think there are definitely associatives to go into with the Heartache slot. Still happy with my vote there. I'm not really interested in hammering and want to hear from Lyonshade when he gets back on the 16th.

Heartache, a read on BYG and sgz please? With words and stuff, I have no interest in your naked lists.

BYG, a read on Heartache slot please?

BTW, Heartache if you actually care to understand my reads I think they are perfectly clear if you read my ISO.

Back later when I have caught up properly.

[Tere]

Also dumping this here since I have found it. Completed games on site.

Reso as town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=28128

Reso as scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=28128

Reso as scum in the scum board saying he likes taking risks: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8326854 "I'm a bit of a risk taker when it comes to scum actions."

[Tere]

Jaack's ISO. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26257

Your homework is to decide who looked most towny by post 69

[Tere]

OK, time to head into my regular weekend V/LA. It's more limited access than V - I will try to keep read up on the game but don't expect walls (hubby works in London in the week and gets grumpy if I mafia at the weekends).

Will have more time next week.

[Tere]

OK so you think it's A OK for you to provide naked lists but I have to do busywork for you?

Yeah, no. You can read instead.

Nice Beetlejuice when I V/LAed as well.

@mod V/LA till Monday

[Tere]

hopping in. plz analyze why I am scum from ISO thanks.

[Tere]

If you don't think I am scum plz analyze everyone else from ISO thanks.
You have the weekend. I am patient.

[Tere]

Please explain what your mafia experience is with reference including offsite. All of it. I will destroy you on my return. Night night. Sleep well

[Tere]

You do understand what a V/LA is, don't you? I guess I should ask....

[Tere]

anyway, sweet dreams. I will destroy you on Monday x

[Tere]

protip. you should answer the questions. Make sure they are really well answered.

[Tere]

I have no personal problem with you. Explain your reads in public and make them really clear. I will be loving your response. You can't NK me unless you lynch and, it's the weekend, right? and I want to caucus with L. If they go for it fair enough but that's my strongest townread and I would like a chance to connect, and don't lolhammer because reasons. Make it good. If you are town I am really fucking bored with craptown. I have several hours of analysis to put into play. I want to know where you stand. I am about 99% you are scum but on the 1% I will listen. I promise you that. I don't tunnel. Sleep well.

[Tere]

Oh you poor child /deliberately patronising.

STFU and do some work.

[Tere]

I'm catching scum. What is your read on Heartache, please?

[Tere]

Townreading BYF now by the way.

[Tere]

Well, probably. I'm still noodling on it.

[Tere]

Ew.

[Tere]

\o/

Welcome back.

I have a casewall to do tomorrow so would appreciate the chance to get it out toDay. TIA.

[Tere]

He's slipping down my reads. I think Heartache is a higher probability of catching scum though. What say you?

[Tere]

Mcmenno and BigYoshiFan, come help me on the Heartache wagon. It's a righteous wagon.

[Tere]

Hey Leon! OK we are synching. Woot!

I am at work right now. Can you give me a few hours?

I am almost 100% Heartache is scum. I am not sure BYF is scum - I see your reasoning but I need to unpack my read a bit. My townread of Gamma is slipping and I am concerned about a Heartache / Gamma or Heartache SGZ scumteam, and if we don't get one tomorrow's Lylo. I'll catch up later but in the meantime could we pressure Heartache pretty please with sugar on top? xx

[Tere]

OK, so let's unpack my read on the Heartache / reso slot.

Reso

Rereading through, I had a scum ping from reso's 15. This is increased by looking at his newbie meta - he reads confident as both town and scum in those and this feels like newbscum going for "please don't hurt the newbie if I fuck up!" cred. I also really dislike 85. This looks like he is asking if he will be scumread if he goes for the "policy lynch". This doesn't come from a town mindset. Lays down the policy lynch in 91. I think reso is a better player than not realising that policy lynches are a bad idea when the next day would be LyLo. While I was annoyed at 107 on reading elsewhere on the site it is null. @reso, if you need to do that again, please formally request replacement, OK? Noping out of games isn't cool. He is not currently active on site so the replace looks genuine.

So, scummy. My initial read had him scummier because of 107 but still scummy.

Heartache.

Heartache's entry posts between 201 and 218 are one of the scummiest entries I've ever seen in a mafia game. Those series of naked reads look utterly forced and fabricated to me. Seriously, can any of you say hand on heart you would be able to put together a town to scum read list like that from fucking page 1 of RVS? I know I didn't feel confident in my first stab several pages into day 2! I just plain do not believe it's possible to get a set of reads like that. They are obviously constructed to me. 218 is just colouring. This screams scum who picked up a lurkaderp slot and thought "crap, I need to town this up by faking read progression and padding my activity". Utter horsepuckey. She ends up with sgz at the top which is lots of huh to me and makes me think he could be her scum partner. I'm next as I'm a threat. itlepip / BYF and mcMenno as her scum reads is lazy. I think it's interesting she tries for a McMenno alternate wagon.

I don't much like her pushing for a full claim in 222. More post padding. Cheeky scum tries for massclaim in 231 which is anti town. There's some soft defence of BYF in 237 that makes me wonder again if you are right about her bussing, together with her push at Gamma for saying scum quickhammers are a thing at 238. 254 also reads fake as fuck to me. "Sorry scumbuddy you are doomed I must bus". 264 may be "please selfhammer to close down discussion". Incidentally reading through is making me feel better about Gamma again.

So far so good for Heartache scum, right?

Then I pop in and say I am not buying it at 270. Heartache's immediate "reads plz" response rubs me up the wrong way. I think my ISO is pretty transparent re reads. She's just not reading (scumtell), this feels defensive and I think the comment about who else I think is scum as 274 is also interesting.

In 287 I push Heartache for non naked reads on BYF and SGZ. I also say that I think there are associatives between BYF and Heartache if he flips scum.

I think her 291 is really interesting. First she claims that she does naked lists because the "Benefit of this style is, you can tell when people really care. And what specifically about." - but she did no scumhunting whatsoever really after these lists apart from asking the two people present in the thread for their reads on each other. Yeah, no.

She then acts in an incredibly defensive way about the idea she may be bussing, claiming she is "the strongest pusher of the lynch" (no). She then lays down some very icky and shallow reads for BYF and SGZ.

More defensiveness at 298. Oh, and no reads. And some whining about how I am being mean.

Start of Tere DIE SCUM DIE aggro push. She whines about busywork at 301. Still no reads. She claims she has put her reads on me in her ISO at 304. It doesn't exist. She complains that I am genuinely upset at her at 307, another attempt to discredit the push. More whining at 309.

Since then she's said nothing, has been prodded and looks likely to be force replaced.


FWIW, this is nothing like a town player would act when faced with a Tere aggro push.

Rereading through this again, I do feel it's certainly possible that my read on BYF is wrong and he is being bussed. If you guys want to do that today, I'm OK with that, but I would much rather do Heartache as I feel she is a dead cert for scum.

[Tere]

x post. Now for everyone else.

[Tere]

1. Nice ad hominem, caught scum.
2. No shit sherlock, but a gussied up progression of fakereads, nah. But it doesn't matter, you are scum for many other reasons.
3. whine whine whine whine whine. Also I don't believe you, given the appalling superficial quality of your reads in words. But please do attempt to break it down.

I notice you have not bothered to provide your off site meta despite being asked.

I discounted your "away for the weekend" - there was no V/LA note and you were formally prodded.

Oh and you can try to make a scum case on me if you should wish, but I should warn you that in my many many games off site (and indeed on site) I have not once been lynched as town whilst in my slot.

[Tere]

Now where was I. Oh yes, posting the rest of my reads.

Strong Town

Leonshade.

Leonshade has been consistently town throughout. If he's scum I'm happy to lose to him. Catch up posts are great. 330 comes from a place of honesty. I can see his thought progression on BYF, I hadn't come to the same conclusions reading through but I can see towny thought processes here. Same with rest of ISO.

McMenno.

For similar reasons to Leonshade. I liked his "oi my meta doesn't suck now" pride interaction, I think he has been transparent. It's a gut read but I am sticking with it. Liked fakehammergate.

Probably Town

Gamma

. I am feeling better about Gamma again. I like his vote on reso at 106. I quite like his reaction to being voted at 112. Vote change at 138 is decent. I was quite surprised he didn't offer a read on me in 179, relying on the replace out I thought was quite static at that point in the gamestate. Initially I thought the outing of fakehammer at 190 was a bit scummy but I guess it is null. Just annoying Everything else looks pretty good. I like his immediate pick up of the claim discrepancy at 248. I am not a fan of him still sitting on me as a scumlean based on the replace out at 285. If I ignore that read, he seems OK.

Sgz.

Most of his posting has looked OK, e.g. 89 and 90. Initially reading 101 felt like scum communicating, but that's probably a stretch. 117 looks thoughtful. I don't care about onlinegate. His question to me at 151 initially pinged me a bit, but I like his response at 159. 152 looks like town paranoia, actually. His reads at 161 look fine, also. I like his 316 better than I did, too. I also think if he were scum with Heartache he would have just hammered not stuck to his Gamma read which gets him town points.

Scum

BigYoshiFan

Yup, back to scumreading BYF again. I've been thinking again about itlepip's meta and he clearly loves playing town. I don't think he would throw a town game in this way. There was also one low content quickhammer game in his scum games at least from my metadive. I also don't like the rolecop 2 shot to 1 shot claim change at all. BYF has done what he can to redeem the slot but Leonshade is right, his reads at 174 weren't that great, and I didn't get the scumread on 130 at all. I could say more but I think I am happy with him eating rope today if that's what everyone else wants to do.

Heartache

already discussed.

So that's where I am at. Glad I read through again, I am feeling better about both Gamma and sgz.

[Tere]

In case that's unclear I am happy for the hammer to go through, but you guys are helping me lynch the fuck out of Heartache tomorrow.

I would like updated reads from everyone before you hammer if possible, Leon.

Need to do other stuff. That's where I am at.

[Tere]

I quite like Gamma's unpacking of his read on me. Feels natural.

BYF's comments re Heartache feel like distancing.

I need to put in some work on this and re-read. Not sure when the 24 hours until the hammer ends but give me a few hours, need to do a couple of RL things then I'll come back and see what I can come up with. I'm just finding myself without much of an opinion at the moment,

I think as I stand I'd lynch BYF over Heartache if those are the only two options, not thrilled with either of those lynches though.

Can you unpack this a bit for me? Do you have a townread on them, if so, why? I know you've talked about Heartache's read on you previously but personally I don't find that compelling. Is there anything else about her you find towny?

If you think BYF and Heartache are town, who could be scum? I know you have a scum read on Gamma, can you talk about that a bit more?

[Tere]

Sweet.

Hey Leon, I'd really like for Sgz to do his catch up - we have three days to deadline.

[Tere]

Heck, you're right. He obvtowned later. I keep forgetting exactly how short Day 1 was, lol.

[Tere]

Liking that catch up.

Yeah, you just need to sheep me on Heartache, mate

McMenno doesn't really do looking town full stop. He's posted some of his meta, I suggest you check it out

[Tere]

Think we're good to go now Leon. If I die in the night you need to execute my last wish

[Tere]

I'd hammer but it looks like you guys are talking!

I will do it when I get back from work in 12 hours or so if Leon hasn't gotten there first.

[Tere]

Hi, am here, anyone need anything from me?

[Tere]

Yeah, that's where I am. I think we've gotten enough out of today. Heartache tomorrow, I really don't think anyone else is scum. If a miracle happens we might both be alive, you never know!

[Tere]

I have a bunch of thoughts, but first I'd like Heartache to answer an honest question first.

Are you the new Jeanne11 alt?

I promise not to shout at you if the answer is yes, but I would really like to know the answer.

[Tere]

OK you can go back in my scumpile then.

Meta please?

[Tere]

You know, it's not actually my responsibility to change your mind. People seem to fail to recognise the onus is on the reader and not the readee, except in cases like itlepip but they should be blacklisted anyways.
I have put a decent amount of time and effort into this and I'm very likely right at this point. I will not lose sleep if you insist on lynching me regardless for I believe not liking my playstyle.

OK, so have you got over being butthurt about my scumread on you and are you willing to play today? I still want reads and meta from you. If you are town and not willing to work with town, why shouldn't we lynch you? It's a team game after all. If you take your ball and go home I will lose absolutely no sleep about treating you as if a Jeanne11 alt anyway and WOTC you in future.

I might be happy to help you out with Gamma. There's something that stood out to me yesterday.

I suggest you go do a meta dive of McMenno before writing him off as scum. There's some in the thread, although obviously you can go find your own. I think he's likely town from interactions on my entry into thread, but I agree he needs to do some work today.

[Tere]

Thinking about it No lynch might work. I think you should let everyone have a say and then claim whatever you are softing.

[Tere]

Smart, V/LA till the 30th

To elaborate, I'm currently on weekend V/LA but I'll be heading out to my Dad's tomorrow - will be sans internet completely from Tuesday until Friday, then back into usual weekend V/LA. It's what it is. I am not intending to vote until I am back and caught up. So feel free to talk amongst yourselves

[Tere]

If there is a Heartache townflip I may advocate powerlynching Tere.

There's quite a lot I don't like in his ISO on a reread. But this lining up lynches really pings. It's like he knows both Heartache and I are town.

[Tere]

Tere, still townreading Leon?

I am not sure I am, no. I am noodling on a Gamma / Leon scumteam.

[Tere]

What do you think about Gamma, Leon?

[Tere]

OK, could you go do that and report back please?

[Tere]

Ok, so my having to go away to deal with RL stuff is really kicking my arse, so much so that I really don't have the mojo for mafia.

@smart, apologies, but please replace me

Good luck town!

[Tere]

Well done peeps! Did well to pull back from itlepip nonsense. Big group hug please for BigYoshiFan, that was a shitty hand to deal with replacing in!

I was entertained in the dead thread