Mini Normal 1843 - Endgame

[Jaack]

Yeah but at the same time doubting the claim is easier for gm than coming up with new reads, and she can maintain everything from yesterday without change. And mason claim makes it an easy scumread because you're not expected to do that much about it. I agree it brings attention though I already voted her at that point.

How she does it too "(which is totally not Scum's favourite FC or anything, nope)." is kind of absurd also, and how gm super scumreads victor. Apparently all of it still on the entrance and the semantics argument he had. I don't buy you scumread someone early that much you stop reading them and are still ultra confident, then see mason claim and are still 100%, and go as far as implying mason claim is even likely or common for scum to continue (how does she even get to that conclusion?).

This is a fair enough assessment, but I don't agree with your conclusion that gm is scum. Overall your case feels more like "gm has done some things that could have been done with scum motivation" as opposed to "gm has done actively scummy things." In this particular case, I think its far more likely that gm is stubborn town as opposed to lazy scum.

[Hoopla]

Can I just assume scum wouldn't bother putting in the time to do that?
Was leaning town on you for gm's shade but wow.

I don't understand the point of IAI doing all of that, and what the conclusions of all that work is, but I agree it's townish for him going out of the way and doing it.

I'm still not sold on the Sotty wagon and would rather be lynching gm.

[Hoopla]

Hey goodmorning, how are you feeling about the L-1 Sotty wagon?

Most of the votes on Sotty are nrg...

(I don't know what nrg means... not really good?)

[MariaR]

It feels like he is waiting for someone to come up to him and say it's okay IAI, you can vote Sotty!

Place your vote, even if it's on me.

I never thought that someone would be you!

vote Sotty

Actually, I spent over an hour tracking all the votes from Day 1 (see spoiler), and then got busy with family stuff. So you can stop with all the "do something already" shade. Your 180 in just a few posts on me stinks, as does you day 1 voting history. I'm pretty sure town Sotty would be mixing it up, you're posts lack the passion I've seen from you in your town games. Sorry you drew scum, maybe we can play again after this game and we can be on the same side.

Spoiler:

Post Date Player Vote Unvote
4 10/19/2016 I Am Innocent BlackVoid
6 10/19/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
8 10/19/2016 goodmorning GreyICE (BBT)
11 10/19/2016 Creature (Michel) Hoopla
17 10/19/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
28 10/19/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
30 10/19/2016 Sotty7 goodmorning
33 10/19/2016 TwoFace CloudKicker
34 10/19/2016 Raskolnikov MariaR
35 10/19/2016 VictorDeAngelo I Am Innocent
37 10/19/2016 Jaack BlackVoid
47 10/19/2016 goodmorning GreyICE (BBT)
47 10/19/2016 goodmorning VictorDeAngelo
56 10/20/2016 BlackVoid Raskolnikov
58 10/20/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Raskolnikov
59 10/20/2016 Sotty7 goodmorning
59 10/20/2016 Sotty7 Raskolnikov
62 10/20/2016 Hoopla goodmorning
62 10/20/2016 Hoopla Raskolnikov
63 10/20/2016 TwoFace CloudKicker
63 10/20/2016 TwoFace Raskolnikov
66 10/20/2016 CloudKicker TwoFace
70 10/20/2016 Raskolnikov MariaR
70 10/20/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
77 10/20/2016 Creature (Michel) Hoopla
77 10/20/2016 Creature (Michel) goodmorning
97 10/20/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Raskolnikov
101 10/20/2016 Jaack BlackVoid
101 10/20/2016 Jaack Sotty7
102 10/20/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Sotty7
104 10/20/2016 MariaR goodmorning
107 10/20/2016 TwoFace Raskolnikov
118 10/20/2016 MariaR goodmorning
119 10/20/2016 Sotty7 Raskolnikov
119 10/20/2016 Sotty7 GreyICE (BBT)
127 10/20/2016 Hoopla Raskolnikov
127 10/20/2016 Hoopla MariaR
156 10/21/2016 MariaR Creature (Michel)
158 10/21/2016 BlackVoid Raskolnikov
158 10/21/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
162 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo I Am Innocent
162 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo GreyICE (BBT)
192 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo GreyICE (BBT)
192 10/21/2016 VictorDeAngelo CloudKicker
241 10/21/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
241 10/21/2016 Raskolnikov goodmorning
245 10/21/2016 CloudKicker TwoFace
256 10/21/2016 CloudKicker MariaR
276 10/21/2016 Hoopla MariaR
276 10/21/2016 Hoopla Sotty7
293 10/22/2016 VictorDeAngelo CloudKicker
293 10/22/2016 VictorDeAngelo goodmorning
311 10/22/2016 Sotty7 GreyICE (BBT)
311 10/22/2016 Sotty7 TwoFace
339 10/22/2016 TwoFace VictorDeAngelo
373 10/23/2016 CloudKicker MariaR
373 10/23/2016 CloudKicker Creature (Michel)
402 10/23/2016 GreyICE (BBT) Sotty7
402 10/23/2016 GreyICE (BBT) MariaR
445 10/24/2016 Raskolnikov goodmorning
445 10/24/2016 Raskolnikov Sotty7
452 10/24/2016 MariaR Creature (Michel)
452 10/24/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
464 10/24/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
464 10/24/2016 BlackVoid Sotty7
466 10/24/2016 Sotty7 TwoFace
466 10/24/2016 Sotty7 GreyICE (BBT)
511 10/24/2016 Hoopla Sotty7
511 10/24/2016 Hoopla GreyICE (BBT)
527 10/24/2016 TwoFace VictorDeAngelo
527 10/24/2016 TwoFace Sotty7
551 10/26/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
555 10/26/2016 Creature (Michel) goodmorning
555 10/26/2016 Creature (Michel) GreyICE (BBT)
565 10/26/2016 BlackVoid Sotty7
565 10/26/2016 BlackVoid goodmorning
592 10/27/2016 BlackVoid goodmorning
592 10/27/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
594 10/27/2016 VictorDeAngelo goodmorning
594 10/27/2016 VictorDeAngelo GreyICE (BBT)
622 10/27/2016 MariaR Jaack
634 10/27/2016 I Am Innocent BlackVoid
634 10/27/2016 I Am Innocent GreyICE (BBT)
671 10/27/2016 Hoopla GreyICE (BBT)
688 10/27/2016 Hoopla Jaack
711 10/28/2016 GreyICE (BBT) MariaR
712 10/28/2016 MariaR Jaack
712 10/28/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
713 10/28/2016 MariaR GreyICE (BBT)
739 10/28/2016 GreyICE (BBT) VictorDeAngelo
769 10/30/2016 MariaR Jaack
815 10/30/2016 CloudKicker Creature (Michel)
828 10/30/2016 Hoopla Jaack
828 10/30/2016 Hoopla GreyICE (BBT)
857 10/30/2016 MariaR Jaack
857 10/30/2016 MariaR VictorDeAngelo
858 10/30/2016 Raskolnikov Sotty7
858 10/30/2016 Raskolnikov VictorDeAngelo
882 10/31/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
906 10/31/2016 BlackVoid GreyICE (BBT)
942 10/31/2016 Jaack Sotty7
942 10/31/2016 Jaack VictorDeAngelo
967 11/1/2016 Raskolnikov VictorDeAngelo
1057 11/2/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
1077 11/2/2016 Raskolnikov Hoopla
1077 11/2/2016 Raskolnikov GreyICE (BBT)

If scum tryhard enough for a win then by all means fucking take it

[I Am Innocent]

Maria who are u scum/town reading?

[MariaR]

Town:

Scoty Rask Cloud

Lean town:

IaI

Null

goodmorning Hoopla

Lean scum:

Creature VictorDeAngelo (only reason he's not in scum is mason)

Scum

:

Jaack BlackVoid

[I Am Innocent]

thanks

[Raskolnikov]

1270 is reducing my read to one part of it and arguing against that with mafia theory.
Something OTT ridiculous is bad in the sense when I can't see how it could possibly come from town as a legitimate viewpoint, whereas natural town pov should be able to be followed and understood to some degree. Your "scum don't act ridiculous" does not really apply here; your actions are only ridiculous in a town context, but the scum motivation for them are fairly simple (laziness+opportunism). And it's not as if you would know they are ridiculous while doing them, because it took me noticing and analyzing for this to even become a point of public discussion, whereas if it was obvious I wouldn't have been almost alone in my concern.

I don't like shifting to more general theory instead of specifics, every scumtell can be argued against from a theory standpoint. Then with focus there, everyone says "hey it's just a disagreement of theory opinion" and ignore the original points.

[BlackVoid]

I should start pushing a wagon on my townreads so that somebody (MariaR) can complain about how bad it is. I'll get to work on that.

[MariaR]

I should start pushing a wagon on my townreads so that somebody (MariaR) can complain about how bad it is. I'll get to work on that.

Push jack and help me lynch him and I'll townread you for 2 days (assuming you leave me <3)

[goodmorning]

Hey goodmorning, how are you feeling about the L-1 Sotty wagon?

Most of the votes on Sotty are nrg...

(I don't know what nrg means... not really good?)

Not really good.

I liked the idea but the execution is pretty terrible.

Lean scum:

VictorDeAngelo (only reason he's not in scum is mason)

@RASK: YOU MAY SAY I'M A DREAMER

1270 is reducing my read to one part of it and arguing against that with mafia theory.
Something OTT ridiculous is bad in the sense when I can't see how it could possibly come from town as a legitimate viewpoint, whereas natural town pov should be able to be followed and understood to some degree. Your "scum don't act ridiculous" does not really apply here; your actions are only ridiculous in a town context, but the scum motivation for them are fairly simple (laziness+opportunism). And it's not as if you would know they are ridiculous while doing them, because it took me noticing and analyzing for this to even become a point of public discussion, whereas if it was obvious I wouldn't have been almost alone in my concern.

I don't like shifting to more general theory instead of specifics, every scumtell can be argued against from a theory standpoint. Then with focus there, everyone says "hey it's just a disagreement of theory opinion" and ignore the original points.

Then why can't I be lazy and opportunistic Town?

[Raskolnikov]

This is a fair enough assessment, but I don't agree with your conclusion that gm is scum. Overall your case feels more like "gm has done some things that could have been done with scum motivation" as opposed to "gm has done actively scummy things." In this particular case, I think its far more likely that gm is stubborn town as opposed to lazy scum.

Things which have more scum motivation to them than town motivation = scummy things.

[Jaack]

This is a fair enough assessment, but I don't agree with your conclusion that gm is scum. Overall your case feels more like "gm has done some things that could have been done with scum motivation" as opposed to "gm has done actively scummy things." In this particular case, I think its far more likely that gm is stubborn town as opposed to lazy scum.

Things which have more scum motivation to them than town motivation = scummy things.

Let me rephrase

I think a lot of your case on gm boils down to you looking for scum motivations behind everything gm has done, regardless of how likely those explinations are. You offer a possible reason that scum-gm could continue her scumread on victor, but it's far more likely, at least from my perspective that she is stubborn town rather than scum trying to find a tunnel that will allow her to not do anything.

While the scum-explination is possible, I think that overall, most of gm's play this game looks to come from town. She's not town to the point that I would be shocked by a scum flip, but I think town is more likely.

[MariaR]

I don't think there is something that you can outright label active scummy things like rask just said its' more looking out what does town get from this post compared to scum where's the motivation in the posts made the reason why there's no outright scummy thing is because everyone has a reason (to some extent) on what they post or why they did things it's why you want to hear why they did ___ and you get a bases from it it's just mafia 101

[Raskolnikov]

GM address my mason point then. How can you say mason fakeclaim is common when I assume you haven't seen it more than once ever? How do you think it would be a thing given what hoopla brought up, which I agree makes sense whatever her align?

[MariaR]

I don't think if Mason is a fakeclaim common should be what were focusing on I think we should focus on would scum victor fake claim it in that spot to buy a few days and get a ml in knowing grey was town

[Raskolnikov]

Then why can't I be lazy and opportunistic Town?

"Why can't I just be scummy town?"

[Raskolnikov]

This is legitimately looking like a lost cause though.

Where's sotty anyways?

[Sotty7]

Sotty was at work. I'm catching up now.

[Sotty7]

Quick skim shows me at lynch -1. I'll claim if someone has intent to hammer.

Otherwise I'm catching up for reals and about, question away.

[Sotty7]

What does NRG mean anyone?

Not really good?
Never really game?
Never random Gnome?

I even checked the Abv page and nothing.

[Sotty7]

Actually, I spent over an hour tracking all the votes from Day 1 (see spoiler), and then got busy with family stuff. So you can stop with all the "do something already" shade. Your 180 in just a few posts on me stinks, as does you day 1 voting history. I'm pretty sure town Sotty would be mixing it up, you're posts lack the passion I've seen from you in your town games. Sorry you drew scum, maybe we can play again after this game and we can be on the same side.

This is so weak. Why do you think I would be mixing it up? If I was hooked on scum why wouldn't I just stay there? How does my voting record compare against other people in the game who have parked their votes all day yesterday and all day today?

VOTE: Sotty l-1

I was hoping to get a lot from how she pushed me and dealt with gm, but

she gave up pretty fast on me and turned around on gm first thing when the wagon on her got going.

Yeah this never happened. I have GM as a town read but agreed her IAI vote could be lazy. If anything you have given up on your GM vote once one one reacted to your big case and are jumping all over me for what exactly?

Also, the mod of this game links the votes in the VCs. It's the easiest thing in the world to ISO the mod and just click the links. I could do the whole damn game in 15 minutes or less.

Yup.

He dodged posting as long as he could while being very active elsewhere. When he finally showed up and had reads they were identical to the majority. His vote on the Grey wagon was one that he could have justified no matter what action Grey had actually taken. His vote on Sotty doesn't make any sense; he strong-pushed TownSotty D1, spoke to her like he was SURE she was Town, now suddenly he's just decided she's Scum for no real reason? And his D2 start was the same as D1: he delayed posting as long as possible so he could see the lay of the land and quietly go along with - who again? - the majority. He still hasn't done anything but randomly vote Sotty (majority wagon hint hint) today either.

Exactly. People are willing to look past this because they just want me lynched, it will be key information once I do eventually flip so see exactly how he reacted to me day one v day two with no detail in between. As I read his reasons are basically nightkill. Like scum can't manipulate that to make me, the very obvious next mislynch after Grey look awful, but okay, continue with this reasoning something I have no chance to defend because pretty much everything I can say is WIFOM

This is legitimately looking like a lost cause though.

What is looking like a lost cause, my wagon? Or am I reading that wrong?

[Sotty7]

I;m pretty upset that no one else is around right now. What could be more important/pressing than this game right now?

[MariaR]

Hello it is I maria here and defending Scotty

[goodmorning]

GM address my mason point then. How can you say mason fakeclaim is common when I assume you haven't seen it more than once ever? How do you think it would be a thing given what hoopla brought up, which I agree makes sense whatever her align?

I have seen it more than once ever. I don't have time to troll back through the ~175 games I've played or the ~500 I've read to pull the ones with Mason fakeclaims right now.

If I did maybe you'd townread me for putting in the effort though.

What does NRG mean anyone?

Not really good?

Yes.

Or Normal Review Group. But those might be the same thing.

Then why can't I be lazy and opportunistic Town?

"Why can't I just be scummy town?"

why do you hate fun though?

@Sotty: I think Rask means the me-wagon (despite having placed their second weird L-1/2 vote in a row and it not being on me)? We can talk if you have anything in particular to say but ??????

Like, I'm not convinced you're Town 100% but your reaction to the wagon feels ok so ??????????????????????????