Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over

[Titus]

I wonder if fakeclaiming VT as town doc is something anyone has ever done before? ROFL.

Sorry I know it's bad for town but that's so shit I have to laugh.

At least my read on Cloud being a potato, albeit a town potato, is now proven correct.

Never go full potato Cloud.

This doesn't look like a slot that is the real Town Doctor with Cloud's fakeclaim.

You are misinterpreting those posts.

He's saying the theory that Cloud is fake claiming Doctor is preposterous. Look at his tone. The entire time, RB thinks we had hit scum because of this trolling.

The posts read fake. My interpretation of that tone is they read fake because Cloud is his buddy, and as such he knows he's not the doc but is trying to make it seem like he doesn't.

You're saying they read fake tonally because he knows Cloud isn't the doc because he is the doc, correct?

Yesish. In both situations, the poster knows Cloud isn't the doctor, so he reacts with that knowledge and treating the claim like it's bunk.

[Impoetic]

@Titus: here are cleared townies

me
Jae
Impo

if you want to argue that you're a for real doc, you need to

1) Figure out a scum team that actually makes sense given the clears
2) Figure out how a full doc and an odd night weak doc make sense in setup

because you have literally no chance of getting me lynched here. My postings have been EXTREMELY consistent with my role, including my n1 visit to CCC and its result, my reaction to cloud's seeming game throw was EXTREMELY difficult to fake, and my talk in the hood was completely consistent with trying to potentially fake out Io if she was somehow scum.

Zero of these things are reasonably within my scum range.

Despite that, you aren't confirmed town, are you?

[JaeReed]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

Correct, but in saying that, there's no reason for the full doc to say much of anything. Wouldn't you rather keep your head down or make a generic "I hope this is a troll." post as the real doc? There's no reason for him to have made the posts he did, claiming that he reads Cloud as basically a VI, after Cloud claimed his role. I can't see the motivation behind doing it as the doc.

I can, however, see smith thinking Cloud could be the even night side to his own role. Especially with a weak modifier. Setup-wise it'd make sense as a kind of buffer against bad town, at least from his pov.

Not all of my points were about you pocketing me. It concerns me that you've decided to boil it all down to that when I feel there's a lot more to it. While it's true that I am concerned about you having come in all buddy-like, I do think that there's potential for that to have been a genuine doc save kind of buddying. Even then, though, I think you would have a bit more paranoia over my slot with the potential for me to have bussed Cloud because I was in a bad situation, then pulled a no kill gambit knowing any town doc would be on me after that.

I'm not mod confirmed town, yet you're treating me as such. That's directly at odds with how I believe you operate. Unless I'm wrong in believing you do not take anything for a given unless it's mod confirmed. I don't think I'm wrong, though. Your town play would have to have changed drastically from when I first joined the site.

[Titus]

@Titus: here are cleared townies

me
Jae
Impo

if you want to argue that you're a for real doc, you need to

1) Figure out a scum team that actually makes sense given the clears
2) Figure out how a full doc and an odd night weak doc make sense in setup

because you have literally no chance of getting me lynched here. My postings have been EXTREMELY consistent with my role, including my n1 visit to CCC and its result, my reaction to cloud's seeming game throw was EXTREMELY difficult to fake, and my talk in the hood was completely consistent with trying to potentially fake out Io if she was somehow scum.

Zero of these things are reasonably within my scum range.

You mean you visit CCC night 1 and he dies night 2.
I love how you pat yourself on the back saying your reaction was difficult to fake, yet you slipped (and I believe someone quoted it unless that's the liquor talking) that you believed Clod. That isn't a town doctor reaction. A town doctor would know it's a lie and try to hide it, thus generating a fake reaction.
I don't have any idea what you said in the hood, but you are scum.

You have a zero percent chance of getting me lynched and you tried to intimidate me. I stare down fights from scum on a daily basis.

Fight me. In the process, you'll tell me your buddy.

[mhsmith0]

Despite that, you aren't confirmed town, are you?

not mod confirmed, but by now I should be very very very very very obvious town, with my role claim, my actions supporting that claim, my early D2 posts consistent with that claim (including pretty much explaining why I targeted CCC there), my reaction to the cloud lynch, and my posts in the hood (the last of which you obviously can't see).

[Impoetic]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

I feel like even in the world where you're town, you should be able to understand why people would doubt your claim thus far. I mean, you yourself said scum was likely to CC you before mhsmith claimed.

Both RB and mhsmith pretended to believe cloud was the doc, and mhsmith doesn't seem to think of you as a direct CC so maybe it wasn't even pretend. Actually oh yeah he said it wasn't. Nonetheless, unless I'm the one missing something here, I don't think you really believe JaeReed's being irrational by doubting your claim with the reasons they gave.

[Titus]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

Correct, but in saying that, there's no reason for the full doc to say much of anything. Wouldn't you rather keep your head down or make a generic "I hope this is a troll." post as the real doc? There's no reason for him to have made the posts he did, claiming that he reads Cloud as basically a VI, after Cloud claimed his role. I can't see the motivation behind doing it as the doc.

I can, however, see smith thinking Cloud could be the even night side to his own role. Especially with a weak modifier. Setup-wise it'd make sense as a kind of buffer against bad town, at least from his pov.

Not all of my points were about you pocketing me. It concerns me that you've decided to boil it all down to that when I feel there's a lot more to it. While it's true that I am concerned about you having come in all buddy-like, I do think that there's potential for that to have been a genuine doc save kind of buddying. Even then, though, I think you would have a bit more paranoia over my slot with the potential for me to have bussed Cloud because I was in a bad situation, then pulled a no kill gambit knowing any town doc would be on me after that.

I'm not mod confirmed town, yet you're treating me as such. That's directly at odds with how I believe you operate. Unless I'm wrong in believing you do not take anything for a given unless it's mod confirmed. I don't think I'm wrong, though. Your town play would have to have changed drastically from when I first joined the site.

You are practically mod confirmed. I healed you. No one died. There is likely no town blocker from my skim. Thus, you are town or scum no killed. Given the extreme number of PR claims still alive, I don't think it's a no kill situation. If you did indeed bus Clod, the players know the tracker eats rope if it lives too long.

Given mhsmith situation, you'd also have to clear townies or have convienent accidents.

[Impoetic]

Despite that, you aren't confirmed town, are you?

not mod confirmed, but by now I should be very very very very very obvious town, with my role claim, my actions supporting that claim, my early D2 posts consistent with that claim (including pretty much explaining why I targeted CCC there), my reaction to the cloud lynch, and my posts in the hood (the last of which you obviously can't see).

But from Titus's pov, you are practically a CC, so you aren't really confirmed town to them and telling them to appeal to you as if you were seems really strange to me.

[mhsmith0]

You mean you visit CCC night 1 and he dies night 2.
I love how you pat yourself on the back saying your reaction was difficult to fake, yet you slipped (and I believe someone quoted it unless that's the liquor talking) that you believed Clod. That isn't a town doctor reaction. A town doctor would know it's a lie and try to hide it, thus generating a fake reaction.
I don't have any idea what you said in the hood, but you are scum.

You have a zero percent chance of getting me lynched and you tried to intimidate me. I stare down fights from scum on a daily basis.

Fight me. In the process, you'll tell me your buddy.

With my ability only being odd night, it was very obviously possible that there was SOME kind of even night protective role (doc, jk, rb), so the idea that cloud was a doc, just an even night doc, seemed pretty realistic. Moreover, the way he reacted to his lynch seemed genuine, adding to my belief in it.

But doubtless you can mine my work so far for a fake theory about how I'm scum with cloud and ___. I look forward to your spew

[Titus]

There is zero reason for the real doctor to CC a hammered man claiming doctor.

I was pretty wasted and depressed last night.

We move on.

VOTE: mhsmith0

He tried to postulate Cloud was the doc JaeReed. You're being hyperconcerned about pocketing that you are not thinking rationally.

I feel like even in the world where you're town, you should be able to understand why people would doubt your claim thus far. I mean, you yourself said scum was likely to CC you before mhsmith claimed.

Both RB and mhsmith pretended to believe cloud was the doc, and mhsmith doesn't seem to think of you as a direct CC so maybe it wasn't even pretend. Actually oh yeah he said it wasn't. Nonetheless, unless I'm the one missing something here, I don't think you really believe JaeReed's being irrational by doubting your claim with the reasons they gave.

1) I do understand why JaeReed doubts me. I am explaining myself. Do you somehow think I am shading them?

2) No. RB actually posted the opposite. He posted that it was ridiculous to believe Clod fmpov. Believing a doc claim, means that you are not one.

3) Look at mhsmith0 recent posting. He wants a universe where we can exist together do he can coast. He is scum. There are never two doctors.

[Titus]

I am a full doc.

Vote me scum.

[mhsmith0]

But from Titus's pov, you are practically a CC, so you aren't really confirmed town to them and telling them to appeal to you as if you were seems really strange to me.

It's conceivable at least on a theory basis, in part because I've seen some bizarre setups go through normal review, and it really depends on how much NRG would value a neighborizer and an odd night weak doc, both of which are pretty non-standard roles. It seems really strange for it to actually be the case, but I'm at least going to consider the possibility.

I also don't want to give Titus the easy out (presuming she's scum, which is pretty likely) of just trying to 1v1 me and not bother having to engage with anything else.

[mhsmith0]

I am a full doc.

Vote me scum.

VOTE: titus

Easy game.

I'm actually weak odd night DOCTOR. Lolol wolves.

[JaeReed]

Anyway, I feel like it might be optimal to lynch in VT claims here if there's any doubt about Titus' alignment whatsoever, but maybe I'm just spazzing out. I mean, it probably doesn't matter, but...

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

[Titus]

I am a full doc.

Vote me scum.

VOTE: titus

Easy game.

I'm actually weak odd night DOCTOR. Lolol wolves.

Now that we've established that I missed your vote, you can stop looking for an exit hatch.

You're scum. You can talk about everyone else to look for an exit hatch. You want a diversion. That's the same reason you talked to me about finding others as if I was town.

Eat rope.

[mhsmith0]

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

It would require substantial scum power. The problem is, I've seen Normal setups that are closer to role madness than standard normal games, most notably chilledtea's one, which had a five town PR's (mainly shitty ones) and two full scum PR's (mainly designed to tear through town power). Titus could probably attest to that given that she was scum in that game (and I still hold that the setup was ludicrously scum-sided by MS standards, with the ultimate derp moment being when a reviewer decided that when I BG'd someone and died that was more pro town than if I was a doctor and stopped the kill).

[Titus]

Anyway, I feel like it might be optimal to lynch in VT claims here if there's any doubt about Titus' alignment whatsoever, but maybe I'm just spazzing out. I mean, it probably doesn't matter, but...

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

This. Even if it goes wrong and you lynch me, you get a guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow. Scum kills must be executed in a particular order (eliminating JaeReed (who essentially becomes a cop) for instance). The game is in town's hands if you lynch here.

[mhsmith0]

Now that we've established that I missed your vote, you can stop looking for an exit hatch.

You're scum. You can talk about everyone else to look for an exit hatch. You want a diversion. That's the same reason you talked to me about finding others as if I was town.

Eat rope.

Still not gonna happen. If you really want to thunderdome this and totally ignore the rest of the game state, you can, but it's increasingly obvious to me that you're intentionally avoiding any kind of useful commentary because you're in anti-spew mode.

[Titus]

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

It would require substantial scum power. The problem is, I've seen Normal setups that are closer to role madness than standard normal games, most notably chilledtea's one, which had a five town PR's (mainly shitty ones) and two full scum PR's (mainly designed to tear through town power). Titus could probably attest to that given that she was scum in that game (and I still hold that the setup was ludicrously scum-sided by MS standards, with the ultimate derp moment being when a reviewer decided that when I BG'd someone and died that was more pro town than if I was a doctor and stopped the kill).

Yeah, scum have ridiculous power to explain why we're both town and how you investigate when we have a tracker and heal when we have a doctor.

They don't.

They lack a roleblocker or a strongman as evidenced by JaeReed getting a result on me.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah, scum have ridiculous power to explain why we're both town and how you investigate when we have a tracker and heal when we have a doctor.

They don't.

They lack a roleblocker or a strongman as evidenced by JaeReed getting a result on me

.

Actually that's a fair point. I guess it's thunderdome then. At least this will make the re-read more interesting. Sorry you replaced into a scum role again; fortunately you won't escape like you did in 1775.

[JaeReed]

Titus like 90% wolf here tho I think.

Given a few things...

1) Her predecessor's interactions with Cloud
2) Her predecessor's non-reaction to Cloud's doctor claim
3) The fact that her apparent first priority upon replace in was to ISO her predecessor to try and work out who to protect (I'll be blunt here; I don't think Titus would do this as town, because it's akin to trusting someone else's judgement over her own. I don't think she operates that way).
4) She said she liked me and skimmed my ISO to see the claim. I have 2 pages in my ISO, and a lot of it is petty fights with Io, CCC, and Smith, and earlier on, it was coasting the everliving fuck out of this game and sheeping like mad. Skimming my ISO to see my claim would be pretty impressive for someone who doesn't generally read the thread upon replacing in, for one, since it'd be pretty hard to reach my claim through all the crap going on in it, and then you also have to think about the play that she would have seen in my ISO during it. Considering she has seen my play from a mod perspective (Shadowrun) when I've been town and trying, I really doubt that her conclusion upon skimming my ISO was "this is a good protect". Especially given it's Titus we're talking about.

I don't think she can be anything but scum here. Especially because she took the mentor-like interactions where I'm fairly sure she knows how uncertain I can get, and how easy it is to pocket me.

Spoiler:

now watch her flip town q.q like I can't even begin to explain how bad I will feel if she is town here.

@Titus you addressed my concern about being pocketed, your predecessor's non-reaction to Cloud's claim, and you interacting with me as though I'm conftown. Can you address my other points here please? Especially 3 & 4.

[Titus]

Oh, I love you starting the Titus is good at scum shade.

Your role cannot exist.

Two or three investigatives and a protective while scum can do nothing? Don't think so. That would never pass balance.

You went for more utility in your fakeclaim for the tiebreaker and got busted.

[Titus]

Titus like 90% wolf here tho I think.

Given a few things...

1) Her predecessor's interactions with Cloud
2) Her predecessor's non-reaction to Cloud's doctor claim
3) The fact that her apparent first priority upon replace in was to ISO her predecessor to try and work out who to protect (I'll be blunt here; I don't think Titus would do this as town, because it's akin to trusting someone else's judgement over her own. I don't think she operates that way).
4) She said she liked me and skimmed my ISO to see the claim. I have 2 pages in my ISO, and a lot of it is petty fights with Io, CCC, and Smith, and earlier on, it was coasting the everliving fuck out of this game and sheeping like mad. Skimming my ISO to see my claim would be pretty impressive for someone who doesn't generally read the thread upon replacing in, for one, since it'd be pretty hard to reach my claim through all the crap going on in it, and then you also have to think about the play that she would have seen in my ISO during it. Considering she has seen my play from a mod perspective (Shadowrun) when I've been town and trying, I really doubt that her conclusion upon skimming my ISO was "this is a good protect". Especially given it's Titus we're talking about.

I don't think she can be anything but scum here. Especially because she took the mentor-like interactions where I'm fairly sure she knows how uncertain I can get, and how easy it is to pocket me.

Spoiler:

now watch her flip town q.q like I can't even begin to explain how bad I will feel if she is town here.

@Titus you addressed my concern about being pocketed, your predecessor's non-reaction to Cloud's claim, and you interacting with me as though I'm conftown. Can you address my other points here please? Especially 3 & 4.

Thought I did. My bad.

I looked through the ISO to see where he was right AND wrong. I knew whatever it was, it was true. I had to start somewhere and the truth is good.

I did skim. I had to as doc. As VT, I don't. I cannot randomly submit a protect as doc, when the game stalled waiting on my action. I had to do the best I could.

[mhsmith0]

Oh, I love you starting the Titus is good at scum shade.

Your role cannot exist.

Two or three investigatives and a protective while scum can do nothing? Don't think so. That would never pass balance.

You went for more utility in your fakeclaim for the tiebreaker and got busted.

You do realize that I claimed odd night weak visitor D3, AND claimed my target of Jae, right? I await your theory about why I'd do this in advance of a doc claim which (presuming I'm scum fake-claiming) very well might not exist at all.

[Impoetic]

Anyway, I feel like it might be optimal to lynch in VT claims here if there's any doubt about Titus' alignment whatsoever, but maybe I'm just spazzing out. I mean, it probably doesn't matter, but...

Btw, I'm pretty sure this is 100% what not to do in this situation. At least lynching in the doc claims gives us 1 for 1, and we don't have to try to sort between them in lylo. I don't believe there could be 2 town docs. Not even with smith's claim being as swingy as it is.

it was about which one was real and I had forgotten about the implications of "weak odd-night"