STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Awesome, so I know you read that post. Care to answer the questions posed within?

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

@Moi: good job. IMAGINE if you had done that when Titus and I were urging you to on D4. Titus would probably still be alive!

My computer is kaput thanks to an accidental spill of water into the top of it (I have a Coolermaster HAF 932 case if you don't get why that would fry my comp), so I can only phone post and I've only skimmed because reading on my phone is horrible, but I did note that you are still adversarial with our slot, and that's dumb and needs to stop. We're in a super good position but having people on the same side going after one another is how we go from super good position to losing (See: Steven Universe).

1.) Anyone who objectively puts you and us in ISO will see that you basically went OMGUS on us when we were trying to get to the bottom of why you were obviously lying about your win con as a faction. Despite me telling you I had figured out a win condition that would justify a lie and should not be shared, you then went ahead and shared

that exact win condition

, which should never have been shared given the implications, and blamed us for it as if us paying attention and trying to make sure we didn't get Saga Frontiered was a bad thing. (See: Saga Frontier). When your only reason to be hostile to us is that we caught on to what was up and called you on things not adding up, that's a problem.

2.) We know your role, or at least we know what Titus was told your role is. So does Shiro. That's why Cerb said earlier this day phase that Shiro makes little sense as scum. Mastin I think realized the implication of that, but you seem to be ignoring it. Why?

In any case, I am scrambling to get an old laptop up and working well enough that I can stay plugged in and keep playing. I haven't been able to talk to Cerb at all yet so if we could maybe not end the day, that would be nice. I'd like to talk to Farside a little more and post my thoughts where they can be passed on if needs be. I know that the game is long and has gone on quite some time, but please just give me a little time to get something working where it won't take me an hour to make a post and let's say 36 hours to talk with Cerb and Farside and I'll be able to say what I need to say.

~Drixx

P.S. - Do try and put yourselves in our shoes MoI. We've been working our butt off all game. We have absolutely no idea what Not Chara said to you or what actual value it brought, but we

do know

what was lost when Titus was killed, and it's more than you think. At one point I think you claimed a guilty of some sort but then that never actually materialized. From our POV, the utility value of Titus being alive outweighs whatever the value of having a conftown dead person you could talk to privately was. I am willing to assume you guys had some kind of plan in place to do this that day if Kraska failed to move stress and it came close to lynch and that said plan was torpedoed by how the day ended, but it's still really frustrating, especially because of some things that we (our slot and Shiro) know that you don't.

For example, when Titus died we lost our slot being 100% cleared (instead of just pretty obviously town for several reasons) as well as the ability to ensure a win 100%. If Shiro will actually take the time to read the PT with us from the first season finale, then he can confirm that we had an ace up our sleeves that made it basically impossible for scum to win (barring someone in the town or gems intentionally game throwing).

So ... you can respond with a little rolling your eyes emoticon, but at the end of the day Cerb is right. If you guys had done it way back when, that would have been better.

All of that said: it would be a whole lot better if we could stop with this adversarial crap already. We can't change what has come before, but we can change what comes next.

[farside22]

Days like this I feel like srinking

[mastin2]

10648 is a good post.

[mastin2]

Also, something to make sure of.
There's a slight chance the luchador thing vanillaized me (though V didn't indicate as much and recognized my submitted action), so I have to ask this:

Almost50:

Are you capable of giving me a critique? A simple yes/no is sufficient.

[Varsoon]

@Varsoon: would NCs investigative power have revealed a scum slot who had no personal powers that could negatively affect someone (such as SC or TWIES roles), but who had access to their factional kill?

Yes. The Doctor Maheswaran role's investigative ability would produce a positive result even if the target only had factional means of negatively affecting other roles. The same goes for negative abilities gained in other fashions, such as from an Alliance or 'Inventor'-type role. The investigative ability, "DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CHILDREN I SEE EVERYDAY WHO'VE CUT THEIR FACES OFF PLAYING WITH SWORDS?!," will always reflect the player's current capacity to negatively affect other players--no matter if that capacity or lack thereof is temporary, factional, alliance-gained, etc.

[Almost50]

@mastin:

Um.. yes, but you owe me an explanation post-game.

[Creature]

VOTE: kraska77

[MagnaofIllusion]

So Kraska is now at L-2 with Creature’s vote.

Alliances need to be formed up.

Grapes

– Want to ally?

If Grapes doesn’t is there anyone else who wants to swap information with me overnight?

--

Also, something to make sure of.
There's a slight chance the luchador thing vanillaized me (though V didn't indicate as much and recognized my submitted action), so I have to ask this:

Um, whut? I think this needs further explanation because the Luchador Event (which apparently got prematurely ended) if it is like the “Mini-Game” events the Gems could trigger (all of which seem like a general waste of time TBF) I don’t see the clear reasoning why it would render you Vanilla.

--

Anyways what were NCs results? I assume one was on me, which is why you acted like they had a guilty on me(

which is especially hilarious since Yume and mastin knew since D2 that I would have given a positive result to that particular check, and thus you should have known as well

), so did they check anyone else or use their negative power removal thing on anyone?

The bolded is interesting since I know not one iota about your role other than you started Beech-a-palooza. Once again you are assuming knowledge that I lack. Yume frankly is the world’s worst communicator and relayed practically nothing into the Crystal Gem PT. And it is not like mastin and I have some PT to discuss in.

Not Chara did not claim any other results or investigate targets.

I’m very curious what your ability to Negatively Impact players is given her results.

@mastin

– Since I know RR will withhold information about his role regardless of alignment why don’t you explain why RR should show up as a “guilty” to Not Chara’s investigation.

2.) We know your role, or at least we know what Titus was told your role is. So does Shiro. That's why Cerb said earlier this day phase that Shiro makes little sense as scum. Mastin I think realized the implication of that, but you seem to be ignoring it. Why?

What is the point about this again? Are you trying to clear yourself and Shiro for knowing my Role with WIFOM “Why would scum do that” logic?

All of that said: it would be a whole lot better if we could stop with this adversarial crap already. We can't change what has come before, but we can change what comes next.

The irony of posting a large swath of “adversarial” content and then saying “Oh, you should stop scum reading us and play nice” is not lost on me.

[Reasonably Rational]

There wasn't anything adversarial about my previous post. It may be uncomfortable to put you and us in ISO and admit that objectively you only came after us when we pressed your faction on the lie, and it may also be uncomfortable to admit that I specifically said I had concluded what your win condition had to be to justify the lie and stressed that you should not confirm it or say it, but you decided to do so anyway. I suspect that was a frustration/emotional thing, but I think we can both agree it was unwise.

As for why the reward that Mastin chose from Beach-a-Palooza would give a false positive on us ... that's the same reason it would on

YOU

, presuming what Titus relayed to us about your role is true. You can do the same thing we can according to her. If that doesn't make it click for you, then just review our ISO. We made no secret about what we can do on season finale and since you can also do it (presuming Titus relayed accurate info to us), it seems fairly obvious to me that the Crystal Gem faction and we (Earth) also have the same ability

for a reason

.

You know what ... it's in our ISO so instead of making you go look (which is normally what we do because we want people to take notes and make a habit of looking back at parts of the game they forgot about, since so many towns squander wins by failing to do so), I'll just re-state it: On season finales (and under specific under circumstances) we can hammer a wagon and no ability can prevent that player dying. This implies there's an ability to lynch evade (and if we posit Town!Farside, then we should also posit scum still around who has a way to avoid a lynch, which should adjust how we view the M/LYLO equation, but that's a side point) in play on the scum team. We actually originally intended to have the winner of beach-a-palooza confirm us as unable to kill with the investigate so we could spend literally zero effort on defense; however, I realized that the ability to ensure a lynch happens could, according to the wording of the beach-a-palooza reward investigate, return a guilty. I asked Varsoon and he said that the ability would return a positive to that check, which we passed to Mastin via Yume immediately given the gameplan was to clear us and that would not have done so. Our instruction to Yume was to relay our ability and that it would return a guilty and we also asked Yume to tell Mastin to ask Varsoon her own questions about roles in general in the wiki or from other games as hypotheticals so that Varsoon wouldn't be in a position to confirm our ability with any answer. I assume she did so since she earlier stated that she had been informed we would return a false positive.

The cool part is that you can also do the same thing. Varsoon is super cool about answering hypothetical questions to clarify mechanics as long as you ask them in such a way that he doesn't end up confirming or outing a claim someone has made as true/untrue. I invite you to go ahead and drop him a PM and ask if your ability (presuming we are correctly informed) would have triggered a positive on the beach-a-palooza investigative reward. You'll be told that yes it would.

There's a lot more I'd like to say to you, so perhaps you want to ally with us and talk a little more clearly? I've been working on the assumption that you know a lot more than you seem to know, so perhaps an info dump of what we know will be useful to you.

ALSO:

I've got a really old laptop working so just give me ~ a day to talk to Cerb and finish talking to Farside in our alliance before we end the day please.

~Drixx

P.S. - I'm asking you to re-assess your view on us rationally MoI. If you go back and set aside bias and still conclude that we're anywhere near likely to be scum, I would be very surprised (and you would be wrong, but that's a separate matter). And before you write my post off as some sort of play, please do go look at how the original Steven Universe played out. There are strong parallels and we would like to avoid the same outcome. Also you're running a game based upon OotS, so that means we should be friends.

[Almost50]

So?? Who am I to submit as an ally?? I don't mind going w/o one either, seeing as I have nothing to offer in terms of alliance bonuses.

[grapes]

Grapes – Want to ally?

Down.

[grapes]

So?? Who am I to submit as an ally?? I don't mind going w/o one either, seeing as I have nothing to offer in terms of alliance bonuses.

Shiro?

[Creature]

Guess I should choose someone to check by myself.

[Creature]

Who do I ally with? Maybe I can stay allyless as I have only one action to use anyway.

[grapes]

Check as far as what?

pedit: I'm not sure creature -- most people think you're scum and I really liked the idea of a shadow/fuzzy duo. Because I can see those two ironing out there differences and I don't trust fuzzy with a vig by himself he already shot fire apparently.

[Almost50]

So?? Who am I to submit as an ally?? I don't mind going w/o one either, seeing as I have nothing to offer in terms of alliance bonuses.

Shiro?

If that's alright by him, sure.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@ Creature
is there a reason you should investigate someone tonight opposed to waiting to get to +3 stress
also do you know what info you will get or is kind of random

@Grapes
I am uneasy about my vig ability...that's why I am trying to find someone who would give me good advise. I am open to suggestion. Right now Shadow seems like a viable candidate but I am not 100 percent sure.I already shot Fire for stupid reason I don't want to do it again

[farside22]

Alliance with tfl tonight.
If kraska is town lynch Shiro for all he is worth

[mastin2]

@mastin

– Since I know RR will withhold information about his role regardless of alignment why don’t you explain why RR should show up as a “guilty” to Not Chara’s investigation.

Yume didn't tell you?

I got the information from her. Apparently they have a hammer-based killing power.
That's about all I was told. That hammering will kill.

[Randomnamechange]

Just wanted to drop a quick reminder that lynches after this should be Creature - Shiro - RR

[Randomnamechange]

that is assuming there are no associatives based on flips from previous people in the list/kraska

[Shadow_step]

So who am I allying with?

[Creature]

is there a reason you should investigate someone tonight opposed to waiting to get to +3 stress

One reason is that +3 stress at this point is likely...pretty hard.

[Reasonably Rational]

@mastin

– Since I know RR will withhold information about his role regardless of alignment why don’t you explain why RR should show up as a “guilty” to Not Chara’s investigation.

Yume didn't tell you?

I got the information from her. Apparently they have a hammer-based killing power.
That's about all I was told. That hammering will kill.

That's pretty much all of is, though it does have the strength that it specifies nothing will be able to stop the death from happening.

@random: ally yo, since MoI is with grapes? Hopefully you can pass everything onto him.

-Cerb