Mini Normal 1844 Firework Mafia. Game Over


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Post Post #393 (isolation #0) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:08 am

Post by CCC »

...sixteen pages within twenty-four hours?

I can see I have some catching up to do.
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Post Post #394 (isolation #1) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:09 am

Post by CCC »

In post 24, Transcend wrote:
In post 23, mhsmith0 wrote:
It's easy being green
:good: :D

not if you're me

lynched as green all the time either d1 or d2 :P
...I can sympathise.
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Post Post #395 (isolation #2) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:39 am

Post by CCC »

In post 338, rb wrote:what would happen if pinnochio said, "my nose will now grow!"
Not sure, but I think his nose will explode.
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Post Post #396 (isolation #3) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 7:44 am

Post by CCC »

Okay, so...

Transcend. You say you have a really really strong scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

Why? What has Lil Uzi Vert done so far this game that you think he's scum?
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Post Post #425 (isolation #4) » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:30 am

Post by CCC »

In post 397, Transcend wrote:I don't like his posts and i don't think his progression through the game is genuine.
Hmmmm. This seems very...
generic
to me. Can you point out something in his posts that you particularly didn't like?
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Post Post #614 (isolation #5) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:12 am

Post by CCC »

In post 428, Transcend wrote:
In post 117, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:This game is going to be a pain to reread.
In post 205, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 203, Impoetic wrote:
In post 198, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 193, Impoetic wrote:
In post 188, Transcend wrote:VOTE: Impoetic
I am aware that it looks like a dumbtell and it sort of was in that I realized team moon was probably something else before posting it, but decided to post it anyway.
And you did this because ___?
why not? It was a quirky, fun entrance that somewhat proved my alignment in that I probably wouldn't have come up with such a weird dumbtell as scum, and it got reactions. I don't really know what to think of transcend's reaction, but it did get reactions.

so, tldr: idrc

I also haven't read up yet and am multitasking ATM so excuse the late response.
Why were you so focused on proving your alignment rather than looking for scum?
In post 329, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Smells like some next level reaction testing
I don't like the tone or genuity of these posts.
...that seems a very weak reason for the strength with which you're scumreading her.
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Post Post #615 (isolation #6) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:22 am

Post by CCC »

In post 492, Impoetic wrote:you mean when I said that people's PR/non-PR reads on me were like completely irrelevant to my actual role half the time? Why would you assume it was proven? Are you implying
you
know my role?
Half
the time? How accurate is that figure? Do you perchance have stats (drawn only from completed games, of course) to back that up?
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Post Post #616 (isolation #7) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:23 am

Post by CCC »

In post 493, Impoetic wrote:(And FTR it's not because I think I'm good at hiding my role, it's because I'm too stupid to remember my role and/or give the usual PR or non-PR tells when I do remember it.)
That would actually make you very good at hiding your role.
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Post Post #617 (isolation #8) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:25 am

Post by CCC »

In post 499, Transcend wrote:Ye we prob have town!Gerry
...he looks just like he did in the last, now completed, game I played with him. He was scum there.

Mind you, I've never played with town!gerry, and he hasn't really done anything alignment indicative yet that I've seen, so it could be nothing...
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Post Post #618 (isolation #9) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:28 am

Post by CCC »

In post 504, Impoetic wrote:
In post 498, JaeReed wrote:
In post 495, Impoetic wrote:Actually he's likely town from a logical perspective given my perception of Gerryoat's approach to the game but I'm not sure and I think it's too soon to be sure but w/e
eyyyy you CAN read ;)
friendly reminder that I'm the mafia goon with a factional kill to direct at whoever I want tonight ;)
Is this an actual, serious scumclaim? I have a very strong urge to park my vote on you now.
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Post Post #619 (isolation #10) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:31 am

Post by CCC »

In post 516, Impoetic wrote:who is ccc? Is it cloud?
*waves*
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Post Post #620 (isolation #11) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:33 am

Post by CCC »

In post 527, Transcend wrote:Alright assuming there's 3 mafia like there usually is I'm gonna go for 3/5 in luv, rb, smith, burger and hermie.

Ccc can possibly be scum but i don't think he's scum with luv and luv is my best scum read.

I also think after careful thinking that rb is scum.

Thoughts?
You seem to have very strong scumreads on very flimsy evidence.
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Post Post #621 (isolation #12) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:38 am

Post by CCC »

In post 561, Impoetic wrote:VOTE: L.U.V.

i'll be a sheep because my SR was wrong
Why do you think your SR was wrong?
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Post Post #622 (isolation #13) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:42 am

Post by CCC »

In post 574, mhsmith0 wrote:If lil if scum he has two afk/bad teammates or is just letting them bus him. Like, my goodness is there nothing in that ISO; I figured with day chat there would at least be some kind of fake content at this point instead of whatever the hell is going on there. Probably a similar story with vxxxyxyxz.
...wait, how do you know that there's daychat?
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Post Post #623 (isolation #14) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:44 am

Post by CCC »

In post 583, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 393, CCC wrote:...sixteen pages within twenty-four hours?

I can see I have some catching up to do.
In post 394, CCC wrote:
In post 24, Transcend wrote:
In post 23, mhsmith0 wrote:
It's easy being green
:good: :D

not if you're me

lynched as green all the time either d1 or d2 :P
...I can sympathise.
In post 395, CCC wrote:
In post 338, rb wrote:what would happen if pinnochio said, "my nose will now grow!"
Not sure, but I think his nose will explode.
In post 396, CCC wrote:Okay, so...

Transcend. You say you have a really really strong scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

Why? What has Lil Uzi Vert done so far this game that you think he's scum?
In post 425, CCC wrote:
In post 397, Transcend wrote:I don't like his posts and i don't think his progression through the game is genuine.
Hmmmm. This seems very...
generic
to me. Can you point out something in his posts that you particularly didn't like?
This is a town read? For five posts? I guess you'd say because he was defending you? I mean, it's such a bizarre read on basically air.
...you're right. I
am
Town, but I don't see how anyone can have a strong Townread on me after just these five posts (looked at from an external point of view, they look pretty much null to me).
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Post Post #624 (isolation #15) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:49 am

Post by CCC »

In post 596, rb wrote:wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?
Insufficient evidence. I'd posted nothing but fluff and one or two minor questions before that read.
In post 600, rb wrote:
In post 598, Hermie wrote:
In post 596, rb wrote:wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?
Because scum are the only players who can be confident with their reads! Town is uninformed, scum knows.
Well that's patently false as most town players develop strong scum or town reads in most games.
Yeah, but generally Town waits until it has a bit of evidence first, one way or the other. I'd posted practically nothing before that read.

Makes it look like Lil Uzi Vert might just have decided in advance how he wanted to read me, then ignored my actual posts. Which would seem more of a scum strategy than a town strategy.
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Post Post #625 (isolation #16) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:55 am

Post by CCC »

...I was going to vote Transcend today, if he couldn't at least give a decent reason for his scumread on Lil Uzi Vert.

And he didn't. But now Lil Uzi Vert is also making reads on basically nothing. And if they were both scum, then they'd both know it... hmmm. And sometimes scum do bus each other.

Hmmmmm.

mhsmith0, I think I want to know what (if anything) you know about that scum daytalk you mentioned earlier before I decide where to put my vote.
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Post Post #629 (isolation #17) » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:16 am

Post by CCC »

In post 626, Hermie wrote:This is somewhat meta but scum knows who is cum so they read each post with the knowledge of what that players alignment is. Therefore they can see exactly what is townie about each post. For me it is very hard to call some people town and some people scum when I am maf. I either see everyone as town and have to entirely fabricate my scum tells(sure way to end up misspeaking and dieing) or I see everyone as scum and noone trusts me because I read them as scum when they know they are town.Hope that makes sense but the wiki does have a page on this. Scum has the best scum read and town reads of all the players in the game. They know and therefore can see the signs in each player's post.

Town is dumb; scum is smart.


End of meta post
Yeah... that's why I'm suspicious of Lil Uzi Vert for his correct read on me based on practically nothing.
In post 628, Hermie wrote:Mobile while driving really sucks.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAFIA WHILE DRIVING!

You should be paying attention to the road! Watching other traffic! Paying attention to the pedestrians and/or cyclists in your vicinity! NOT dividing your attention with a mobile browser!

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO MAFIA WHILE DRIVING!

It's not safe!
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Post Post #751 (isolation #18) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:22 am

Post by CCC »

In post 630, Hermie wrote:I'm riding but the road is rough enough that I keep hitting the wrong buttons.
Ah, right. Good. That's okay, then.
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Post Post #752 (isolation #19) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:23 am

Post by CCC »

In post 631, Impoetic wrote:
In post 615, CCC wrote:
In post 492, Impoetic wrote:you mean when I said that people's PR/non-PR reads on me were like completely irrelevant to my actual role half the time? Why would you assume it was proven? Are you implying
you
know my role?
Half
the time? How accurate is that figure? Do you perchance have stats (drawn only from completed games, of course) to back that up?
That's a figure of speech, not a statistical estimation. I meant nothing more than that in the other version of mafia I play, people tend to overanalyze/overestimate how much I play to my role. I cannot list games where this happened because it's not forum mafia. Cloud plays there too.
...ah, thank you for that clarification.
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Post Post #753 (isolation #20) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:26 am

Post by CCC »

In post 632, Impoetic wrote:
In post 618, CCC wrote:
In post 504, Impoetic wrote:friendly reminder that I'm the mafia goon with a factional kill to direct at whoever I want tonight ;)
Is this an actual, serious scumclaim? I have a very strong urge to park my vote on you now.
What do you think?
I don't
think
it's serious, but if it turns out that you
are
scum, then it's going to turn out to be incredibly embarrassing to ignore that post.
In post 632, Impoetic wrote:
In post 621, CCC wrote:
In post 561, Impoetic wrote:VOTE: L.U.V.

i'll be a sheep because my SR was wrong
Why do you think your SR was wrong?
because he came and posted some things that seemed really genuine to me. It wasn't necessarily a strong read in the first place.
...hmmm. Fair enough.
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Post Post #756 (isolation #21) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:39 am

Post by CCC »

In post 634, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 596, rb wrote:wait why would Uzi be confscum just because he saw CCC as conftown?
Because that kind of confidence in a read based on nothing would be obvious bullshit / fake reads, and that's pretty damn obv!scum.
It's also possible that he's not Townreading
anyone
- that his Towniest reads were null, and everyone south of that was being read, to a greater or lesser extent, as leaning scumwards. Then it would make sense to put the guy that has given practically no indication one way or the other with the nullreads at the top of the list.

What I
don't
like is that, even given plenty of opportunity, he didn't suggest this as his reason.
In post 634, mhsmith0 wrote:This is pretty likely town!trans. See my meta case on him in LYLO the first time we played (and he was a wolf)

Spoiler:
In post 2935, mhsmith0 wrote:He shows no real intellectual curiosity at all about Io v Karnos. Marked contrast to his typical town games where he bounces around between ideas and suspicions (see links I sent earlier today), and even without meta a strange reaction to an accusation of fighting to essentially hand-wave it away as TvT.
In post 2833, mhsmith0 wrote:In the context of day one...

Town!Transcend
Newbie 1721
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 22, 35, 41, 46, 65, 374, 377, etc.
gives substance behind reads, and is sorting the whole board (though some of the sorts are light on heft), see 346 reads list

New York 196
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8029308
has fluid reads, bounces around with his vote, pushes and presses multiple people, especially early
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 46, 49, 54, 57, 59, 397, etc.

Open 645
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
pushing early, bouncing around with his vote and reads, engaging with most of the board
asks questions, reasonably often with a push behind them - 195, 227, 229 237, 244, etc.


Wolf!Transcend
Mini 1796
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
early emphasis on explaining/justifying his own push - 167, 169,
questions are self-oriented or weak: 176 is in the context of his own read, 278/279 are questions that don't go anywhere, 281 is in the context of talking about his own vote, 411 is sort of a question, and that's basically it for his first 100 posts

I'm explicitly NOT sorting Fire/Ice since
1) It was multiball
2) His partner was already dead when he subbed in
so that's not reasonably comparable to this game

This game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478
(page 1 - first 200 posts)
day one engagement much more focused on specific people (Luna Fox, Thor, PC)
questions are rare and weak - 132 is a push on the player pushing karnos, 352 is a reinforcement of his PC push, ditto 423, 440 is decent though, 642 is a push on luna rather than a true question,
TR of karnos was weak - is a playstyle read, and when thor pushed back in 336, he's not really interested in engaging substantively with the karnos read (394, 397 are both weak in that respect), and pushes to change the topic of conversation
is a weird reaction to PC - scum would be MORE likely to make a bad vote, not less
luna notes trans's posts as being really town, but that only applies i think if karnos is also town; if karnos flips red (which he did) it's an easy post for a buddy to make to sell the "I totally didn't think karnos was flipping red" mindset

In terms of day 1, transcend played much closer to his wolf meta than his town meta. I'd felt better about his later days though, so I need to dig into those to see if I still agree w that or not.


The caveat here is that skimming his ISO there's not much in the way of questioning (more just shit-posting early on), but I don't see him pursuing an agenda, I don't see him pushing himself out of the spotlight, and I don't see any kind of focus on how he's being perceived by the board. It's not 100%, but unless he intentionally swung his meta (which is hard to do btw) just to fool me, I think it's just a lot more likely he's simply town.
I don't see how his behaviour here matches the Town meta you describe. He's not doing much questioning, his reads aren't fluid (he's pretty much fixated on Lil Uzi Vert), and his reads have no substance.
In post 634, mhsmith0 wrote:PS My day chat knowledge comes from a really cool place. I'm going to spoil it because it might just blow your mind

Spoiler:
In post 1, xSoniaNevermindx wrote:> Mafia have day chat.

(I do give you small town points for asking, though, as I'd figure that scum would know it was public knowledge and the question didn't come off as fake or asking something just for the sake of asking)
...I looked there, and
still
somehow missed that. Thanks, that does help a lot.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #22) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:41 am

Post by CCC »

In post 666, rb wrote:Um all these reasons for why Uzi would be confscum for being confident in his reads are really not realistic, just silly speculation imo. Uzi feels town to me, I like him more than smith/vwxyz right now.

Gerry 'towntell' is NAI - someone would probably say it as either alignment.
It's a weak scumread.

But it's day one - all I've
got
are weak scumreads.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #23) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:47 am

Post by CCC »

In post 672, JaeReed wrote:trans/io/cloud/herm/impo/gerry town
vw probtown

burger is nullish
smith i'm concerned about

uzi is weak scumlean
rb is scumread
ccc is scumread
...this while his vote is on Uzi and not on rb or me.

Explicitly voting someone who's not your top scumread without good reason trips all my scum detectors.

I'm going to finish catching up before I vote, but unless I see something pretty blatant I'll be voting for JaeReed once I'm caught up.
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Post Post #759 (isolation #24) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:55 am

Post by CCC »

In post 755, Impoetic wrote:
In post 753, CCC wrote:
In post 632, Impoetic wrote:What do you think?
I don't
think
it's serious, but if it turns out that you
are
scum, then it's going to turn out to be incredibly embarrassing to ignore that post.
Ohhh, I get it now. Don't worry, I'm not. If you're really worried, you can probably verify with JaeReed, Transcend, Gerry, or Cloudkicker, as they've all played games with me before, and know I tend to make comments like that. I believe I said it in a followup to Jaereed saying jokingly that was my role.

even if I were scum it wouldn't be something to be embarrassed over because you would have no way of knowing that comment was real.
...fair enough. But I'll keep an eye on you, just in case.
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Post Post #760 (isolation #25) » Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:02 am

Post by CCC »

Okay. My reads, in order from Town to Mafia (and colour coded):

Town: CCC












mhsmith0


CloudKicker, rb, VWXYZ, Io, Hermie, Impoetic, BurgerKing


gerryoat


Transcend, Lil Uzi Vert




JaeReed




Mafia


VOTE: JaeReed
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Post Post #838 (isolation #26) » Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:38 pm

Post by CCC »

New day, and the site is back! Hooray!

...alright, that's enough. Scumhunting time. We now know that both Lil Uzi Vert and Gerryoat were Town. Gerryoat was killed by the mafia, Lil Uzi Vert was lynched.

Gerryoat scumread both BurgerKing and Impoetic. If scum are smart, this will mean nothing.

Lil Uzi Vert's vote was on gerryoat - put there in the first post and never moved. Doesn't help much.

Jae seems very certain that Impoetic is Town, and I'm wondering why. Does this come from scum knowledge? Or is Jae basing this read entirely on things that were in the thread?

Yesterday, I thought that one of Lil Uzi Vert and Transcend was probably scum (but not both). Today, I know that Lil Uzi Vert was Town, which makes Transcend's continual push on Vert on day one look extremely suspicious.

I think that at least one, possibly both of Transcend and JaeReed are scum. JaeReed still edges out Transcend in scumminess for the moment, though.

VOTE: JaeReed
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Post Post #856 (isolation #27) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:14 am

Post by CCC »

In post 840, rb wrote:Why is one of Jae/Trans scum?
Independent reads, carried over from yesterday.

I think Trans may be scum because of his push on Lil Uzi Vert yesterday, based on basically nothing.

I think that JaeReed may be scum because yesterday he was voting the person he claimed as his third-top scumread:
In post 758, CCC wrote:
In post 672, JaeReed wrote:trans/io/cloud/herm/impo/gerry town
vw probtown

burger is nullish
smith i'm concerned about

uzi is weak scumlean
rb is scumread
ccc is scumread
...this while his vote is on Uzi and not on rb or me.

Explicitly voting someone who's not your top scumread without good reason trips all my scum detectors.

I'm going to finish catching up before I vote, but unless I see something pretty blatant I'll be voting for JaeReed once I'm caught up.
I haven't found anything to associate them yet, though.
In post 840, rb wrote:Why would Gerry's scumreads mean nothing?
They look like weak reads, and give me the impression of being a WIFOM trap.
In post 840, rb wrote:It's arguably going into the realm of wifom to analyse it, so it may be pointless but I'm not sure if your point is that NK analysis isn't necessary and that's contributing to Jae being scum in your eyes?
Nightkill analysis is often a good thing. I just don't think it gives us anything useful today.

But no, it's not contributing to my scumread of Jae.
In post 840, rb wrote:Also Jae did actually explain their townread on Impoetic, so I can understand if you don't agree with the reasoning or something but to say he's not even explaining it doesn't make sense, don't know where that even comes from it's just shade throwing. I actually hate this post VOTE: CCC
I must have missed that explanation, then. Could you point me to it? I know that his last post yesterday started with:
In post 773, JaeReed wrote:Impo might have drawn scum. :/
...and I haven't seen any explanation why he thinks Impoetic is Town since that post.
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Post Post #908 (isolation #28) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:20 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 860, Io wrote:VOTE: Trans

In case you missed it on the PT Trans I'm going to distance you a bit so they don't think we are really Masons.
Are you being at all serious about this whole Mason thing?

I ask because it looks, from here, like a running joke that ran out of control, and I want to know whether I should be ignoring it or not.
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Post Post #909 (isolation #29) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:23 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 870, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 837, JaeReed wrote:Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.
I'd guess that CCC's post was in reaction to this. It's a blanket statement that she's town. So, why did you broadcast what read as relative certainty that she's town, if in fact you're harboring meaningful doubts?
That was a major part of it, yes.
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Post Post #910 (isolation #30) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:25 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 872, JaeReed wrote:
In post 870, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 837, JaeReed wrote:Impo is town tho so if he got nked for reads it's because burger is scum.
I'd guess that CCC's post was in reaction to this. It's a blanket statement that she's town. So, why did you broadcast what read as relative certainty that she's town, if in fact you're harboring meaningful doubts?
It was made 2 hours after a post where rb specifically asked me if she was town and I responded that she's not on my radar but has lots of could be scum moments. With Impo making one post in between which really wasn't AI.

Mostly, that's "Impo is more town than burger is to me right now" and was an off-handed comment. You're seriously gonna push on semantics? It won't end well for either of us, I can guarantee you that, because I will just hard scumread you and actually push for the lynch. If you're town you REALLY don't want that, buddo.
Hmmmm. I'd read "not on my radar" to mean "not seeing any major signs of scum", thus implying a Townish lean - was this incorrect?
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Post Post #912 (isolation #31) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:33 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 880, Io wrote:What makes me lean more towards you both being scum was Impo's comment in 664 dismissing the idea scum would coach which is exactly what I feel like you 2 were doing, making interactions that just were not substantial and just superficial.
Scum have daytalk in this game. They don't need to try to coach in-thread, they can just pop over to their scum daytalk thread and yell at each other there.
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Post Post #914 (isolation #32) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:36 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 895, mhsmith0 wrote:Which then opens up the question of why you were voting LUV, a wagon likely to go through (regardless of knowing the exact vc, it was clear he was the #1 wagon), if not only was LUV your #3 scum read, but you thought that rb was mafia actively spewing him town with his WK. Explain?
Yeah, this is the major reason for my scumread on Jae.
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Post Post #917 (isolation #33) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:41 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 913, mhsmith0 wrote:So basically you're departing substantially from your normal way of doing things, and sheeping trans regardless of your personal reads logic is part of this. Meh. Null, maybe a scum lean at this point. Would be nice if you had a more defined wolf meta to compare against, but obv there isn't much on that front.
Last game I played in, there were two players who voted for a player while that player was not their top stated scumread. Both turned out to be scum.

So this game, when I see Jae doing exactly the same thing, then that's a strong reason to vote for him.
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Post Post #920 (isolation #34) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:46 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 918, Impoetic wrote:really not seeing it as such a scumtell. Like, I can see how you can interpret it as such, but I don't think it is just because trusting someone else's reads over your own is something I've done before too (oops)?

predit: why would scum "try to look like scummy town"? also jae i know you're joking but if you do that I'm going to tunnel back regardless of whether my read changes on you past that point so don't try it thx
If he was trusting Transcend's reads above his own, then surely he would have had Lil Uzi Vert as his top scumread yesterday (with the reason of "Transcend think this is scum")?
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Post Post #932 (isolation #35) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:03 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 922, mhsmith0 wrote:Ccc, which game were u referencing, and which scum/which votes? Note that if you say wakes role madness I'm in advance not gonna bother looking though.
Nah, not that one. Mini 1830.

The votes in question are EagerSnake, over here, and gerryoat, [url=http://forum.mafia ... ented here.
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Post Post #933 (isolation #36) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:04 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 932, CCC wrote:
In post 922, mhsmith0 wrote:Ccc, which game were u referencing, and which scum/which votes? Note that if you say wakes role madness I'm in advance not gonna bother looking though.
Nah, not that one. Mini 1830.

The votes in question are EagerSnake, over here, and gerryoat, case presented here.
(fixed links)
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Post Post #934 (isolation #37) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:10 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 923, JaeReed wrote:
In post 920, CCC wrote:
In post 918, Impoetic wrote:really not seeing it as such a scumtell. Like, I can see how you can interpret it as such, but I don't think it is just because trusting someone else's reads over your own is something I've done before too (oops)?

predit: why would scum "try to look like scummy town"? also jae i know you're joking but if you do that I'm going to tunnel back regardless of whether my read changes on you past that point so don't try it thx
If he was trusting Transcend's reads above his own, then surely he would have had Lil Uzi Vert as his top scumread yesterday (with the reason of "Transcend think this is scum")?
Trusting someone's read over my own doesn't mean I have to disregard my own reads completely. THAT would be scummy, because it'd be trying to avoid drawing associations.
Looking back at your massive wall post, you're clearly letting other people's reads influence your reads:
In post 883, JaeReed wrote:CCC is a scum read flat out but holding back on that because smith might be town and if so his opinion is valued.
Yet, even after looking at Transcend's push on Uzi, you still had Uzi as only your third-place scumread - while nonetheless voting for Uzi. It just doesn't match up.
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Post Post #936 (isolation #38) » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:13 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 935, JaeReed wrote:@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?
That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.
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Post Post #981 (isolation #39) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:09 am

Post by CCC »

In post 937, mhsmith0 wrote:I'd say that the analogues to Gerry aren't perfect though. Gerry "hard scum read" one player and then voted someone else in a dependency read, while Jae's vote on LUV comes across as primarily lazy.
Yeah, the analogy's not a
perfect
match. It's still the best scumread I've got right now.
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Post Post #982 (isolation #40) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:10 am

Post by CCC »

In post 944, Transcend wrote:I work retail

Tomorrow is Halloween

I'm not exactly what you call


Off

Wish me luck
Good luck.
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Post Post #985 (isolation #41) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:17 am

Post by CCC »

In post 945, JaeReed wrote:
In post 936, CCC wrote:
In post 935, JaeReed wrote:@CCC those are different to this. They were actively trying to set up teams with the person they were voting.

Assume I get announced as Innocent Child (confirmed town) who do you then think is mafia?
That seems highly unlikely.

But if it were to happen, then my top scumread would be Transcend - that's a substantially weaker read.
So you wouldn't take into account that he's my hardest townread, despite me having meta on him and being confirmed town to you, nor would you re-evaluate and look at people's interactions around the confirmed town?
Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.
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Post Post #986 (isolation #42) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:23 am

Post by CCC »

In post 968, Transcend wrote:
{Io}

{mhsmith0, VWXYZ, CloudKicker}

{Impoetic}

{JaeReed}

{CCC}

{Burgerking, Hermie}

{rb}


VOTE: rb
...okay, I don't agree with everything in this post, but I do like that you've actually done some serious analysis here. I'm now starting to question my scumread on you. Your day one push on Uzi was still terrible, mind you.
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Post Post #987 (isolation #43) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:26 am

Post by CCC »

In post 970, Transcend wrote:rb/Burger/Hermie gg.
Hmmmm. rb and Hermie have been pretty null for me so far; maybe I should look more closely at them. Burger could be scum, but that's an extremely weak read.
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Post Post #988 (isolation #44) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:31 am

Post by CCC »

In post 983, Impoetic wrote:CCC when you say jae being innocent child is unlikely, are you saying you think it's unlikely they're going to be cleared or unlikely that they're
town
, period?
I think it's
highly
unlikely that they're an actual Innocent Child, and I think they're slightly more likely to be scum than to be town.
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #45) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:38 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 992, JaeReed wrote:
In post 985, CCC wrote:Quite frankly, I haven't seen good reason to trust any of your reads - even if you were confirmed Town. You seem to rely a lot on 'tone', which from my point of view is as useful a reason as 'magic' - I don't see what you see in people's tones, and so it makes it look like you're either making up your reads or you've got weak reads with little to no justification.

For the moment, I'm leaning towards the idea that you're making up your reads as scum and then using the word 'tone' to try to avoid giving much in the way of actual explanations of those reads.
This is actually confirmed mafia in my eyes right now.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4&start=50

Wake & Drixx already disproved this train of thought in the dead thread with you.
I'm not saying that tonereads can't be valid.

I'm saying that I don't think
your
tonereads are valid.
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #46) » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:41 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1005, mhsmith0 wrote:Essentially ccc seems to be extrapolating jae not substantiating his tonal/gut read into the idea that jae is unable to do so because it's a fake read (and that it's a fake read because he's a wolf). There's nothing in there that argues against the idea of a tone read itself being necessarily illegitimate, and it's kinda misreppy (or lazy reading) to represent it as if that's what he'd said.

As for ccc's take itself, it's obviously plausible that this is why jae hasn't substantiated it, but it's equally plausible that jae simply isn't good at expressing exactly what it is that he's seeing in trans. Which is why ccc is a town read (I think his push is reasonable even if I'm not sold on it) and jae remains largely null for me.
mhsmith0 has it almost exactly. There's just one further point that I can add: as an additional reason for me to mistrust Jae's tone reads, I know for a fact that this particular tone read is completely wrong:
In post 955, JaeReed wrote:
In post 952, mhsmith0 wrote:That reads list was a decent post (though a bit neutral about Io and impo). It doesn't make you cleared town given day chat and the possibility it was discussed in PT, but it's worth villager points.

What in particular strikes you as more similar to ccc scum game than town game in comparing isos?
Tone. There's a glaring tonal difference and his scum game tone matches this one to a T.

concerning 1st paragraph uhhh ok sure. I'm fine with that.
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Post Post #1034 (isolation #47) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:03 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1015, mhsmith0 wrote:I'd further point out that in your push on CCC, by not being clear about what you're seeing, if he's mafia (which I really don't buy), he's able to discredit your read since you seemingly can't back it up. And if he's town, he's going to think you're full of shit and casting shade that you can't back up, and (somewhat predictably) think you're a wolf for it.
To be fair, I've had enough Town people thinking I'm Mafia when I'm actually Town in previous games that I don't think I can really consider "thinking I'm Mafia when I'm Town" to be particularly alignment indicative.

But Jae voting for his third-top scumread yesterday is significant evidence against him already, in my view.
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #48) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:11 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1022, Transcend wrote:
CCC
: Why are you being so neutral today? You've only taken a stance on Jae today and even then it was pretty weak and I didn't like the way you voted him.
I have one scumread, and it's a pretty firm scumread, so I'm trying to push it.

I
had
you as my second-top scumread at the start of the day (for your push on Uzi day one) but you've been looking a lot less scummy today - I don't know if it's because you're actually Town, or because you're a good actor.

I have a few Townreads as well, I'm not going to be voting for them unless I'm convinced my read is wrong

...and those are the reads I've got. I'm only pushing one person, because I only have one decent scumread. The way I see it, if we take him down today, then we can track down the rest of scum afterwards.
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Post Post #1036 (isolation #49) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:13 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1026, Transcend wrote:I just wanted your stance and nothing else lol
The reasoning's good. I want to see more reasoning from him. Specifically about all the reads where he just says 'tone' and seems to think that that explains it.
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Post Post #1037 (isolation #50) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 8:18 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1027, JaeReed wrote:1) This has been proven false to me through every previous game of mine where I have tried. In fact, I got WORSE at getting my point across every game I tried to do it in.
...I fail to see how
not
explaining would be better than a poor explanation. You're not getting your point across at
all
by remaining silent.
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Post Post #1069 (isolation #51) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:20 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1038, Transcend wrote:Who are your few good town reads?
mhsmith0 and Impoetic.
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Post Post #1070 (isolation #52) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:25 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1044, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1037, CCC wrote:
In post 1027, JaeReed wrote:1) This has been proven false to me through every previous game of mine where I have tried. In fact, I got WORSE at getting my point across every game I tried to do it in.
...I fail to see how
not
explaining would be better than a poor explanation. You're not getting your point across at
all
by remaining silent.
I have not remained silent.
You haven't been silent, but you haven't explained your scumread of me either. You just provided two isos - one of me as Town, and one of me as Mafia - and said my tone sounds more like the second than the first, which isn't an explanation.
In post 1044, JaeReed wrote:You just picked out one part and ignored the part where I literally said I can't get my words to do what I want to explain it. I cannot explain it. There's a basis there that I can't explain, and I was actually relying on someone else looking at the evidence and putting it into words because I can't. Not everyone can manage to spin words their way all the fucking time.
Okay, fine then. How about this, then - can you point to one or two posts of mine that you consider
particularly
scummy? Instead of trying to get people to read through my entire ISO and then come up with their own reasons, pointing at a couple of specific posts at least gives everyone else a hint as to your thought processes.
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Post Post #1073 (isolation #53) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:30 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1045, Transcend wrote:Anyone besides hermie wanna give a reason why rb shouldn't die?
I have no strong opinions one way or the other on rb.
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Post Post #1074 (isolation #54) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:33 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1050, JaeReed wrote:FUCK ME I GAVE EVIDENCE

I GAVE THE FUCKING LINKS AND EXPLAINED WHAT I WANTED PEOPLE TO LOOK AT WITH REGARDS TO THE DIFFERENCES.
STOP WITH THIS MISREPPY BULLSHIT THIS IS THE ACTUAL LITERAL WORST THING YOU CAN DO AS TOWN.

I LITERALLY GAVE THE EVIDENCE I WAS ABLE TO GIVE LIKE FUCK OFF
You gave three
entire ISOs
and basically told people to make their own case. That's not evidence, that looks exactly like a fake read with no real case.
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Post Post #1076 (isolation #55) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:35 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1058, Hermie wrote:Iso burgerking and look at his posts.


Literally no content what so ever.
...I could go for a burgerking post.
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Post Post #1079 (isolation #56) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:38 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1066, mhsmith0 wrote:FWIW I'm developing a slight town read on jae, mainly because of how consistently they're engaging with the push against them. It's a bit difficult to maintain that level of "how dare you suspect me" type hostility, and I'm not especially sold that it's within their scum range. I feel like they're probably just kind of hanging out as the vote leader right now (not certain given non-current VC), and I don't especially get a sense of resistance to it. Like, maybe it's trans/jae/lurker or jae plus two lurkers, but it doesn't quite *fit* in my head right now that way.

Probably should look into our lurkers hermie, burger, rb, vw. technically io and ccc have low post counts too, but I can actually remember stuff they've been done (rb has a somewhat higher post count, but a huge chunk of it has been shit posting)
Hmmm. It could be that Jae's scumpartners don't think he's taken enough votes to be at risk yet... but you do have a good point, there isn't really any resistance to this push from anyone else.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Post Post #1080 (isolation #57) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:41 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1071, mhsmith0 wrote:
In post 1069, CCC wrote:
In post 1038, Transcend wrote:Who are your few good town reads?
mhsmith0 and Impoetic.
Talk through Impo a bit? What in particular have you seen from her to make her a solid town read? I've been kind of null on her, though honestly I haven't especially focused there so I could have just missed something important.
She's Town because she has empty hands.

...yeah, this won't mean anything yet. If it becomes necessary - that is, if either me or Impoetic are in serious danger of a lynch - then I can go into more detail. If I'm killed by scum, then this post should suddenly make sense, and you'll know everything I know.
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Post Post #1081 (isolation #58) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:44 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1078, JaeReed wrote:@CCC I literally quoted a handful of posts already I am not doing it again. Go.Through.My.ISO.And.Learn.You.Haven't.Been.Reading.

VOTE: rb
The only thing I saw in those posts you quoted was that you think I'm scum because I made a case on you instead of asking you direct questions. It seems a bit weak to me; that's a matter of playstyle, not alignment.
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Post Post #1091 (isolation #59) » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:14 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1089, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1081, CCC wrote:
In post 1078, JaeReed wrote:@CCC I literally quoted a handful of posts already I am not doing it again. Go.Through.My.ISO.And.Learn.You.Haven't.Been.Reading.

VOTE: rb
The only thing I saw in those posts you quoted was that you think I'm scum because I made a case on you instead of asking you direct questions. It seems a bit weak to me; that's a matter of playstyle, not alignment.
It's still a reason. You started with the read and worked backwards from my pov.
My read on you is because you were voting for your third-top scumread on day one, instead of your top scumread.
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Post Post #1139 (isolation #60) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:42 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1093, JaeReed wrote:
In post 1091, CCC wrote:My read on you is because you were voting for your third-top scumread on day one, instead of your top scumread.
Which is something that town does a lot.
As a compromise to get a lynch, maybe, but out of the blue like that? In previous games, I've seen scum do it twice, but I don't believe I've ever seen Town do it.
In post 1093, JaeReed wrote:I skipped the compromise part but I was feeling out whether Transcend would be willing to lynch my top sr instead. I hardly expected a lolhammer but I wasn't going to cry about it if the guy was lynched either, since it got my sr lynched the next day.
Uh... why would Uzi getting lynched yesterday have got me or rb lynched today?
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Post Post #1140 (isolation #61) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:43 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1097, Transcend wrote:2. ready for jotto?
Might I enquire as to what 'jotto' is?
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Post Post #1141 (isolation #62) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:45 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1100, mhsmith0 wrote:I was going to comment on that vote just hanging there until EOD, but went back and ISO'd, and I think the final VC on day 1 was incorrect with BK's vote. I may get around to just banging out an actual VC document in excel, but won't bother until the weekend since it'll take time to set up.
Votes after the hammer did not appear on that votecount. (I know my vote on JaeReed wasn't there).
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Post Post #1142 (isolation #63) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:48 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1113, Io wrote:A lynch inside this pool will be god enough fro me to be honest {Rb, Jae, Impo, Hermie, Burger}
I'm very much in favour of a JaeReed lynch, and would be willing to support a wagon on Burger if Jae can't be lynched. Hermie and Rb I'm neutral on; Impoetic is Town.
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Post Post #1143 (isolation #64) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:50 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1121, rb wrote:like why is jae scum for being not explain when others are being just as not explain?
Not explaining isn't what I'm scumreading JaeReed for, but keeping his thought processes hidden like that is not exactly winning him any Town points.
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Post Post #1145 (isolation #65) » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:41 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1144, Impoetic wrote:You mentioned you townread mhsmith, right? Can you elaborate on that one?
He's putting some genuine effort into his reads, looking closely at people and trying to understand how they work. On occasion, he's taken something I've said and expanded on it in a way that shows he's reading closely and taking the time to understand what he reads (see here), and he's pretty clearly basing his reads on what people write (or don't write). He gives the strong impression of actually trying to find scum, as opposed to merely pretending to scumhunt.

He's Townreading JaeReed, and providing Jae with lots of advice on how to improve his Towngame (see here or here) in ways that look like Town talking to a Townread to my eye.

While it's possible that he's scum that's good at acting, he nonetheless looks Townish.
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Post Post #1158 (isolation #66) » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:28 am

Post by CCC »

In post 1148, JaeReed wrote:Well you've seen town do it now.
I don't know whether I have.
In post 1148, JaeReed wrote:Rb was my sr yesterday that I wanted. He was hard whiteknighting uzi. Uzi's flip if town would implicate him for today, as it has.
Hm. I'm kinda null on Rb - there's much scummier folk around but, on the other hand, I'm not seeing anything particularly Townish from him, either. I think I like my vote where it is, for the moment.
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Post Post #1159 (isolation #67) » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:34 am

Post by CCC »

On the subject of the Burgerking lynch - I am scumreading him slightly (he's said little to nothing of significance, and doesn't seem to be taking much trouble to hunt scum), but at the same time, I'm finding his style of posting really
really
annoying, and I
know
that that is biasing me against him. I wouldn't be exactly
unhappy
with his lynch, but I worry that I'm letting my annoyance bias get the better of me.

So I'm not going to vote for him just yet, but I wouldn't be opposed to voting for him later in the day, if the JaeReed wagon fails to get anywhere.
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Post Post #1173 (isolation #68) » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:55 am

Post by CCC »

Suspiciously fast. Was there
no-one
trying to defend BurgerKing?
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Post Post #1904 (isolation #69) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:42 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1867, Transcend wrote:Scum only got caught by the prs

Not during the day

Zzz
If it hadn't been for a couple of spoilers posted on the dead thread, I would never have guessed who the mafia were until the PRs had revealed them. So, well played, Mafia, you certainly fooled me.
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Post Post #1906 (isolation #70) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:55 pm

Post by CCC »

Town PRs did play well.

But on that last night, having both town PRs on scum, and not on the same scum... there was a lot of Town luck in there.
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Post Post #1910 (isolation #71) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:57 pm

Post by CCC »

In post 1908, mhsmith0 wrote:- ccc was trying to die. Some wifom there as always, but he made ZERO effort to hide his result or downplay his pr. And per trans, scum knew that I was doc, and cloud knew that Io was neighborizer. Either was a better shot than ccc in that spot.
Yeah, I knew that I was the worst possible scum shot from a PR point of view - no shots left, plus my flip would confirm a Townie quite thoroughly. (I was debating whether or not to refer to my role again just before nightfall, just to make sure scum didn't miss that one post... turned out that wasn't necessary).

I
wasn't
expecting there to be a universal backup who could pick up my shot and use it again. That was just lucky.
In post 1908, mhsmith0 wrote:And having Titus shoot when they "knew" she'd be tracked was deeply sub-optimal; in that situation/read, trans should ALWAYS make that shot, as role cop was relatively low value there.
I may have missed something here - how would Mafia know who Jae was tracking?
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Post Post #1915 (isolation #72) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:26 pm

Post by CCC »

I think a big part of why Smith wasn't killed for his claim is that we all knew the person he'd visited
hadn't
died or otherwise suffered any visible harm. And even after knowing that he'd visited me, I kept Townreading him, so that cuts out almost any form of harm that I might not want to speak out about (e.g. being roleblocked).
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Post Post #1919 (isolation #73) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:37 am

Post by CCC »

I find it interesting how in the neighbourhood you and Io both assumed the other was scum and did all you could to try to mislead each other with respect to your night actions...
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Post Post #1922 (isolation #74) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:43 pm

Post by CCC »

In all fairness, you
were
both trying to lead the other on, albeit not for the reasons you were expecting. So... well spotted, I guess?
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