Mini 1855: Questionable Content Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #9 (isolation #0) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:54 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

This is me confirming ...

that I am sorely disappointed teh Jeph Jacques character sheet did not mention his repeated battles with teh dreaded Butts Disease!
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Post Post #11 (isolation #1) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:09 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Oh god camn caught it too ... it's spread via message board!!!!

Alert the CDC!!!!
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Post Post #14 (isolation #2) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:35 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 13, DiamondSentinel wrote:This marks 9/12 people confirmed! Day 1 has now officially begun!
So only 7 people have actually posted in thread by this point ...

Interesting ...

Does anyone else see that spider ...
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Post Post #18 (isolation #3) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:55 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 17, kraska77 wrote:Hey apparently I'm a miller or sth
Hey elaborating would be cool. Like what character are you?
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Post Post #22 (isolation #4) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:59 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 19, kraska77 wrote:Sven Bianchi
Interesting ...

Carry on!
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Post Post #32 (isolation #5) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:20 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 30, camn wrote:Except Claire and Hanners, of course.
Or Emily ... or Sandra (Ok, I forget her name right now but the kid of the guy Marten's Mom dated who loves snakes and the Skulllord). Or Momo.

I mean you could really make a longer list.
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Post Post #37 (isolation #6) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:27 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 36, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:It is very likely that scum will have safe claims.

Safe claims are characters from the comic that do not exist as roles in the game, so the scum can claim to be them and not be counter claimed.

As such, no character should ever be defined as clearing the person who claims it at any point in time. Anyone who attempts to do this will be lynched with prejudice.

Thank you.
Thanks for repeating basic closed Theme game theory.

Did anyone actually suggest people were possibly cleared by flavor claims? I don't recall seeing that.
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Post Post #41 (isolation #7) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:40 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 38, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:You just had an entire conversation of characters who were "not morally ambiguous".

Do I seriously need to explain why this warning was given, and remind you that it wasn't for you?

Not everything is about you.

In other words, you're so vain you probably thought that post was about you.
Doesn't mean that "not morally ambiguous" characters can't be scum. I would certainly not put it past DS to make the "Assholes" be such because they have no flaws. But I'd make the Doctor a Serial Killer so ...

Who do you think on this playerlist needs that warning? Frankly the list is pretty clear of VIs as far as I can see.
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Post Post #204 (isolation #8) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:05 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Ok, time to dig into the thread with gusto …

Actually have an early gut Townread on Dunn for . It shows he’s interested in reading the rules and brought what could be a set-up clue (althought DS has tried to suggest otherwise) to Town’s attention. And for as his mind is right where mine was reading LUV’s post.

Likewise I am getting an early scum-lean on LUV for which says nothing and make a completely terrible point about LLD’s claimed post restriction being too hard to fake. Which makes no sense and might be a sign that he knows LLD isn’t scum so doesn’t think she is faking. Also very much dislike and it feels like a little bit of chainsawing for a potentially inactive partner.

--

My biggest suspicion right now is camn. Frankly I think both pushes she’s made so far have been weak. Now that on its own isn’t something I’d think is a solid scum tell given how early we are in the game-state. However I see some discontinuity between her posts and what she’s claiming as motivations.

First example – is the original response to kraska’s vote of camn. That post out and out implies “I don’t care”. Yet at she claims she is “all worked up” about kraska’s vote. There’s a large disconnect there. Also regarding kraska - I’m not sold on the whole “what did you do for ten minutes” push as making much sense. Why would scum who had just seen camn float the theory that scum confirmed via PM and then went to the scum PT instead of the thread immediately respond with “Oh, I did”. And the “oh, I’m going to write up a bunch on kraska and call them scum but then fence-sit on them while parking a gut vote on Socrates” feels very off.

Finally – given what I am seeing from LUV I’m also concerned that no sort of attempt to sort that slot comes in 181.

--

@Jae
let’s talk. I’m having a hard time deciding whether I believe your reads list comes from Town or not.

Why did I drop tiers in your reads list between and given I had no activity during that time-frame?

Also,
In post 105, JaeReed wrote:Periods aren't stiff. I just like to gut/tone read early game. Your confirmation didn't ping me as town like for example, Magna's. I went for a meta dive on both you and SpyreX and came to the conclusion it probably didn't mean anything major. Which is generally par for the course.
Why didn’t you meta dive me to see if my opening looks like Town Magna? Because I will tell you it is an absolute departure from my usual style.
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Post Post #206 (isolation #9) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 205, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:How doesn't it make any sense? Not everyone has the knowledge or resources available to make sure their posts consist of good grammar.

It also doesn't seem like something someone would make up just to avoid not posting. Much easier to just fake like you're busy in real life. I think it's best if there is some sort of investigative role, to clear her. If she's scum, great. If she's town, we don't have to worry about her lack of content.

Also there is a hint in my opening post but now is not the time to talk about that.

Why do you dislike my ? Can you think of a single reason why 3 people who haven't posted yet are on that list?
Yes, let's discuss.

1. How does everyone not have the knowledge or resources to make sure their posts are grammatically correct? That isn't a high bar to set. More time intensive but not anything I would not expect from anyone old enough to actually be on site. I expect it from my daughter's 7th grade homework. I don't think it is a stretch to think it is a reasonable possible restriction for a game based on written communication.

2. Directing the cop? Strike one.

3. It is certainly not out of the range of scum to fabricate a post restriction that limits their communication. I direct you to Cow's ISO in a Storm of Swords. He faked a crippling post restriction and rode a dayvig of a scummy partner to a win in 3 player LYLO in a Large Theme. No reason to asssume LLD could not fake a less crippling restriction here in a Mini. Yet you are absolutely certain which to me reads knowledge she isn't scum.

4. Pointing to a breadcrumb upon no actual vote but simply the voicing of suspicion by myself? Strike two.

5. Why shouldn't a player be willing to wagon players who they are not Townreading for whatever reason? It's not like kraska's list is set in stone.
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Post Post #208 (isolation #10) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:40 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 207, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:5.) I understand she isn't town reading them but she isn't scum reading them either. So why would town be willing to wagon someone they read as null?
Because how wagons form are a tool town can use to get reads both on the wagonee and those who join or don't join the wagon. That's pretty basic Mafia game theory right there.
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Post Post #285 (isolation #11) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:40 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from tonight at 4:30 EST until Monday. Thanksgiving family time and normal weekend duties. I will try to get some content into the thread but it will sporadic and phone-posted most likely.


No prob. I understand. Happy Thanksgiving!


@IAI
– if you are going to make posts where you reference post numbers and are Town please use the [ post] INSERT NUMBER [ / post ] feature (with the spaces removed) to make it easier to review your references.

@Dunn
– do you think kraska is scummy for Beetlejucing in ?

I’m also interested enough by to lay down a vote there.

VOTE: Camn

Because she’s just come off a large post explaining how Socrates is scum () yet is less than 20 posts later happy to jump on the “lynch a lurker” bandwagon? Said bandwagon first presented by her scum read Socrates?

--
In post 207, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:4.) You said my opening post didn't say anything, I am merely correcting you that it did and if need be, I will reveal what it says. I'm also not worried about your suspicion of me.
Oh so instead of being a completely fluff-filled entry has hidden content. Why did you feel the reason to hide content? I mean if you are saying there is a breadcrumb there that is irrelevant since breadcrumbs aren’t content but tools to help support later claims.
In post 209, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:And what reaction is one supposed to get after signs of being shown the player's bandwagon that they jumped on or started is not here? I don't see what reads one can gain from someone unwilling to wagon a player who has not posted yet.
You are wandering into straw-manning territory here by presenting very situational, narrow scenarios and using it to undermine the concept that wagon formation is a scum-hunting tool.

Why people jump on wagons and why they don’t is a very good analysis tool down the line.

Let’s analyse the wagon activity (or lack thereof) in this game so far. I find it interesting that we’ve already gotten to page 10 and not a single wagon above 3 votes has formed. In a 12 player game that’s less than half the lynch threshold. This is pretty unusual for Day 1 in a Mini Theme. What does that say to you?

Also, I’d very much like to see your thoughts on camn and Dunn voting for a completely absent Pisskop.

--
In post 211, I Am Innocent wrote:Re Spyrex's Post 40 believing kraska's claim matches her flavor, do others familiar with this theme agree?
Sven is a reasonable flavor match for a Miller – person who looks like an asshole but really wants to be a better person.

--
In post 222, Socrates wrote:MOI is really hung up on Lady's post restriction.
Can you elaborate on why you think this because this is pretty moonbeams and I don’t get the sense from the rest of your posts that you are a moonbeams sorta guy.
In post 252, Socrates wrote:I'm starting to get to the point where I just want to murder some lurkers.
The game has been open a whopping 26 or so hours when you made this. You are ready to start murdering “lurkers” before people can even be due a prod?

--
In post 239, camn wrote:Yea- its the stuff BETWEEN 70 and 181 that torqued me. All the MOAR VOTES HERE nonsense.
Um camn I’m not sure if I buy this. You often hydra with Katsuki for heavens sakes … you can’t really expect me to believe a few rhetoric posts are enough to set you off to such a degree. I mean – here are all the posts from kraska that might fit that profile from 70 to 181.
In post 118, kraska77 wrote:Hey guys camn needs more votes
The way she approached jae shows she's not interested in pressing them for content
Instead of poking jae about the weird comments on Socrates, all she does is call jae scum
That’s it. That is the only post where kraska does anything remotely like “MORE CAMN VOTES”. And even then it’s not completely empty there are reasons attached.

--
In post 246, JaeReed wrote:wrt 67 what don't you like about my early reads? Just the simple fact I gave reads early, or do you disagree with the reads & thoughts?
I didn’t find the reads themselves made much sense. This has all been parsed before but the Socrates read there was really, really odd. I mean I’m not much of a tone-reader but nothing about the post he made said “stiff” to me.

And I don’t grok the “Dunn is reaction testing” stance as reaction testing is not something scum do in my mind. Reaction testing at the heart is making posts and trying to read who people react to learn alignments. Scum (especially in a 12 person mini which we know isn’t multiball) don’t need to do that.

Finally too many of your presented reads are not that. Dunn / Spyrex / LLD / Kraska / Socrates are all basically fence-sits. The only actual reads given are Camn and myself. The rest are basically filling space but say nothing concrete at all to judge your posting buy.
In post 246, JaeReed wrote:You didn't drop in tiers between 112 and 142. Other people moved around you when I did my reread after cooling off a bit.
Well then I have a problem then. In your first reads list I was in the top tier. In the second I was in the second tier. If you are saying that your tiered lists don’t’ actually translate to set reads (first slot is Strong Town, second slot is weak Town, etc) then I question the point of a lists as you have presented them.
In post 246, JaeReed wrote:I didn't feel particularly off with your entry so I didn't dive you. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have bothered to do a dive, as I've seen you play before.
Name games where you have seen me before then.

--
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Post Post #288 (isolation #12) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:25 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 287, Socrates wrote:Your suspicion about LUV's attitude about the post restriction in posts 204 and 206. It did make up a significant chunk of your words at that point.
Yeah but that has little to do with me being "hung up" on LLD's claimed restriction and 100% to do with LUV's posts looking suspect.

So I'm not sure how that translates in me being overly worried about LLD's claim.
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Post Post #291 (isolation #13) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:37 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 290, Socrates wrote:Yeah, attacking the guy who responds favorably to the post restriction to keep the door open for a future mislynch as scum. It's not a strong scum-tell, just something I noticed.
Um whut? Parse this with less generic descriptions please.

Also why did you originally say I was hung up on LLD's restriction then if you recognize that it completely isn't about her claimed restriction?
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Post Post #293 (isolation #14) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:01 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 289, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:It is because you love me, MagnaofIllusion.
Ssshhh ... don't let anyone know ...
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Post Post #296 (isolation #15) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:37 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Hay is for horses ...
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Post Post #298 (isolation #16) » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:08 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 292, Socrates wrote:Scum sees townie with post restriction. Wants to keep them around because restricted townie makes their life easier and makes for a juicy target late game. Scum sees other player accept post restriction, gives them a slap about it because they don't want the town to just accept the restriction but aren't going to attack it directly.
I idly wonder why there is not a single scenario in your mind where scum has a post restriction ....
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Post Post #406 (isolation #17) » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:57 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

This is a "I'm V/LA which the Mod acknowledged but got the mass 'Where is Everybody' Mod message and will be back with thoughts Monday" post.
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Post Post #460 (isolation #18) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So back from V/LA …

At this stage I’m heavily leaning that LUV is a good scum candidate. His posting lacks any drive to find and identify scum. Review his ISO to see what I mean – lots of “don’t know about this” posting. The only real conclusions he has offered are Town reads (some which make little sense) which are easy for scum to provide. And I want to go back to his immediate “Oh, I breadcrumbed” drop made under literally zero pressure. If LUV is Town he’s basically made himself a target for scum killing or blocking with no reason to have done so. Still feels very suspect to me.

IAI’s flake I’m going to assign a “Null” assessment to. He hasn’t posted elsewhere since his last post here. I’m glad it is Aristo replacing in as if he’s scum he will make it clear shortly.

VOTE: Jae

See below for more details on why I am there …

--
In post 377, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm leaning toward voting Socrates right now since all he's done is made a very weak case on Jae that's been easily picked up apart a few times already. He also doesn't seem to understand the town motivation in one trying to better appeal or understand a person.
@Spyrex
– I want a sanity check on this from LUV. Does this post say to you “Newb scum who doesn’t want to get accused of wagonning”?

--
In post 299, camn wrote:And c) I hydrad with Kastuki to learn to be LESS sensitive over things! To fight my natural instincts. I'm not like him. I just try to be :) But I admit it- I was just being catty. It was silly.
My issue isn’t that you are like him – it’s that you first hand should know that play along the lines of “Repetition Rhetoric” isn’t inherently scummy on its own since you have seen Kats use it as Town I’m sure. I’m still trying to decide if your back-away is Town or not.
In post 348, camn wrote:Opportunistic deflection.

Wait...was your Sig that at the beginning of this game?
Yes. What possible alignment relevance do you think a possible change to his sig would have?

Also – why don’t you elaborate on specifically on Jae, Dunn and kraska. I disagree with all three of those on a fundamental level.

Also please sell me on why is not an epic level mis-rep in setting up that scum can’t have weak reasoning to suspect someone. Because that’s crap on a stick and I think you should know that.

--
In post 302, JaeReed wrote:Game. Just one. Open 637, beeboy's Fire and Ice. You replaced Io. I was reading that game because Ranger was in it (in a hydra with RC).
My opening here is in no way, shape or form similar to my play that game. Nevermind that I didn’t even start posting there til Day 2. Your original answer as to why you didn’t ISO dive me compared to Socrates doesn’t seem to hold water based on this info.
In post 302, JaeReed wrote:Reaction testing is only town indicative with follow up. I couldn't give a read on whether he's town or scum following what I thought was a reaction test at the time when I still hadn't seen his conclusions reached from it. I'm having a hard time buying that you seriously believe I should have had a solid read on him off a reaction test that I hadn't seen follow up to at the time.
You are completely off the rails. I don’t care that you didn’t have a read based on Dunn’s post. My issue is that you called it a reaction test at all. Again – Town do reaction tests, scum don’t. You called it a reaction test on its face. I’m having a hard time reconciling that your post left no room for Dunn being scum and voting opportunistically.
In post 353, JaeReed wrote:Eh, I'm not feeling pisskop. I actually liked his reaction to being scumread. The whole "you need to learn the differences" thing.
So you think his posting is Town what effectively it is OMGUS to everyone who looks at him sideways along with empty shit-posting? That is all that had happened by the time you wrote this.
In post 362, JaeReed wrote:{Dunnstral, kraska}
{camn, Uzi}
{pisskop}
{IAI, Magna, SpyreX}
{Nacho, LLD}
{Socrates}
Please elaborate on your LUV Town read. I’d be very interested in what posts you think warrant that read.
In post 364, JaeReed wrote:Also like even if you did go to talk in the scum pt first there's nothing to say you confirmed before the game actually began and not just before you made your first post in thread, y'know?
Ok, this is probably scum posting.
In post 367, JaeReed wrote:I won't say kraska hasn't had posts lately that made me feel uneasy about her but the point is I was pretty certain she was town earlier on and even her latest posting still isn't enough to change my viewpoint on that. I think she's just on the wrong path and needs to take a step back and look at your motivation behind the posts a bit more.
Ok, so what posts of kraska’s made you uneasy?
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Post Post #496 (isolation #19) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

I want to see more actual content from Nacho. The McNuggets style surface level quips don’t do it for me. As an example I mean is just bad.

I’m not lynching Socrates today after reading .

--
In post 461, SpyreX wrote:@moi

I'm filled with doubt because i see the whole i crumbed and go thats soo a baby townbjrd
Meh. I mean to get to there when he basically goes “I CRUMBED” when I did the forums equivalent of accidently bumping into him in the hallway is a pretty large chasm to me …
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Post Post #499 (isolation #20) » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:37 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 497, Nachomamma8 wrote:moi if you just compared my posts to mcnuggets then we can't be friends anymore
Sorry. It was nice being friends while it lasted I guess ...

But yeah - reading your posts makes me want to reach for a side of BBQ or Buffalo to dip in.
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Post Post #530 (isolation #21) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:30 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Nacho is a big ball of unhappiness for my stomach. I expected more from him in his posting today. In fact he’s doing exactly what troubles me about LUV – making very safe calls (Town reads, as previously stated, are the easiest reads for scum to make) and not engaging to a degree I expect as Town Nacho. I have to go read some recent games to see how Day 1 Nacho read to me there. I mean makes me think scum Nacho. You can’t call kraska’s summary on Camn the vaguest case ever when your Town read on Camn is “She’s happy”. And the reasoning that Camn isn’t capable of sticking out her neck is bad. Camn is very competent. Kraska’s response at is accurate.

Also on a good note I’m seeing lots of relational posting that will help long term. I need to go look up that old Buffy game to be sure but I’m leaning that Nacho and Camn aren’t partners. And LUV is not a Ari partner after .

Dislike most of for attempting to characterize what is clearly kraska’s posting style in all his games as somehow scum-indicative.

@Camn
– any reason you responded to but didn’t think to respond to my questions in ?

Oh and my vote stays absolutely parked on Jae for reasons below and . There is no reason given all his words in about how I am making bad pushes and contrived posts for him not to be voting me given he specifically asks for reasons for Ari to be scum in . Clearly he doesn’t see Ari as scum (given 515) but is willing to maybe vote him over someone he clearly reads as scum in me? He’s afraid of being called out for OMGUS given his read on me as scum has developed after I started pushing him.

--

In post 476, pisskop wrote:Ive been pretty standard Kop, Id argue.
I honestly don’t see why you think your posting should be impressive to Socrates. Clearly his playstyle and yours are vastly different.

--
In post 512, JaeReed wrote:That's the way he plays I think. I need to check his scum game to see if it's alignment indicative at all but currently him coming across as fence sitting and as more like he's trying to be the peacemaker is what I have seen from him in our previous game where he was town. When I read his posts I get the impression that he's looking for motivation behind people's postings, which is what town do.
I don’t get the sense he’s looking behind posts for motivation myself. I’ve already said myself that his whipsaw “LLD is Town no-one would fake such a difficult Post Restriction” stance is bad as it ignores plenty of possibilities of LLD as scum that are very reasonable. And he clearly has shown no interest in going to read the game I linked to as he has completely dropped the subject. To me this shows someone molding stances not actually scum-hunting. And that’s just the first example.
In post 512, JaeReed wrote:What? I DIDN'T SAY THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T DIVE YOU. I didn't dive you because YOUR OPENING DIDN'T FEEL STIFF TO ME. I said I wouldn't have dived you if I DID have a problem with it because I can remember the way you posted in Fire and Ice. Like, you're the one who focused on the add-on to it rather than the actual reason and asked for what games I've seen you in as though that was even relevant to the reason I didn't decide to dive you where I decided to skim SpyreX and Socrates.
See my issue is that I can’t see any consistency to the reasons you are giving for why you did meta diving on some players and not others. My opening this game was exceeding a-typical for MoI of any alignment. I’m sure Nacho can attest to that. And it clearly bears little resemblance to anything I did in Fire and Ice. I also still can’t connect at all to your thought process that Socrates entrance was “stiff”. In Large part I get the sense you were looking for posts you could characterize as suspect as opposed to really being interested in play-style departures.
In post 512, JaeReed wrote:No. I thought his tone was town because it's very much a "wow you guys suck at reading me" unapologetic tone. I don't think I actually saw any OMGUS from him back then either?
Your stance that he’s Town for ‘tone’ which is completely playstyle dependent is another reason I don’t see you as honestly drawing reads.

And you don’t see OMGUS in these exchanges?




Literally OMGUS at its finest. Doesn’t make him scum but clearly isn’t Town either. NAI.
In post 512, JaeReed wrote:What about that is scum posting? Because now it's seeming like you're just flinging stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. I'm also pretty sure that in context this was relevant to a discussion we were having, and I feel like you've kinda ripped it out of context? Still don't see how it would be scum posting regardless.
It is scum posting simply because you are trying to downplay that there is any reason for scum to talk pre-game. Scum have tons of reasons to coordinate pre-game. Sharing strengths weakness of Town players that they know. Coordinating how they are going to claim if pressured. Sharing theories about the Town make-up based on their known roles. The list of reasons goes on and on.

Yet you ‘in context’ were downplaying that there were players who confirmed to open the game yet didn’t first come to the main thread to post as meaningless. It isn’t.

@Nacho
– I’d specifically like you to weigh in on the last point I made and what you think of Jae given that.
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Post Post #543 (isolation #22) » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:57 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Phone post - the better question is why didn't Dunn claim his flavor when he made the request if he's in favor of the mass flavor claim?
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Post Post #551 (isolation #23) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:47 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 547, Dunnstral wrote:Because it doesn't help me honestly

But just to be fair I'll claim as well, I'm Faye
I don’t particularly care whether it “helps you” or not to claim your flavor. I can see very few Pro-Town reasons for a flavor mass-claim request that don’t start with the requestor making their own claim right up front.

I’m Marten. Sorry to everyone that I got the cool main character and you didn’t! *

* - Disclaimer … I’m not actually sorry.

--
In post 533, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:What do you think about Nacho's opening posts not commenting on Lady Lambdadelta, MagnaOfIllusion?
Well the fact that I’ve expressed unhappiness with the depth of Nacho’s contributions so far should cover this generally. Is there any reason you think Nacho should be mentioning you? He doesn’t mention me either or most of the player-list in that post.

--
In post 536, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:@Magna: You keep saying I've given out town reads when if you read my ISO I clearly have not. I just said it be quite difficult for someone to fake that restriction due to how challenging it is for the average person to type grammatically correct. I will admit that I have thought about it some more and I'm starting to think giving such a restriction is sort of bastard for scum. Scum do want to stay under the radar but also want to be able to look town by faking content and I don't see the average person being able to do that with such a restriction. This leads me to think mods wouldn't give scum such a restriction. Just a theory though. I'm still unsure about LLD's alignment which is why I strongly still encourage an investigate role to confirm her.
This response doesn’t make me any more confident about your alignment LUV. My beef with you is that you’ve given little in the way of reads and what I was giving you credit for you are now arguing you were not actually giving. So you are basically saying “I’m providing even less readable content than you are suggesting MoI” which is not good.

Who are your Town reads? Who are your scum reads?
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Post Post #559 (isolation #24) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:06 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 558, pisskop wrote:After ... like 3?

You know i didnt claim, rite?
We've had claims of Sven, Faye, May, Dora and Marten made before Spyrex claimed Bubbles. We also had a soft of Mrs. Reed from Nacho.

Half the game has flavor claimed so at this point no reason not to finish the deal.

And sorry Spyrex - Bubbles is cool but only has been in the last 200 or so strips. Marten has been being awesome for 3K+ strips. I mean ... maybe you could make a Hannelore argument if you were her ...
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Post Post #562 (isolation #25) » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:11 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 560, pisskop wrote:Im Chibi AI, not quite and asshole
That's not your character flavor although I know who you are talking about I think ...

:?
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Post Post #604 (isolation #26) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:34 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

This is a note to say I’ve seen and I’m specifically not responding unless someone in my Town reads feels it is important. I think the discussion back and forth has reached the point where it is clear we aren’t going to reach any sort of common ground and I’m not going to waste time debating things with him (for example that Tone reading is crap) that leads nowhere given neither of us are going to change our philosophies. Jae remains a strong scum read for me.

I also want to note about 561 – it establishes that Jae and LUV are not likely partners.

Waiting for Pisskop, Nacho (although he’s more or less claimed it but I’d like a straight out flavor claim rather than TeeHee look at my crumbs posting on the issue), LLD, Ari and LUV to finish the mass flavor only claim at this stage so I can evaluate what Dunn’s motives were when he explains the reasons.

--
In post 572, Nachomamma8 wrote:This lays groundwork for the mass flavor claim business, so if you were surprised about it, you shouldn't have been.
Who shouldn’t be surprised? You are quoting Dunn who is the one who started the flavor claim so I’m sure he wasn’t surprised ….
In post 584, Nachomamma8 wrote:MoI I would invite you to join but we all know you move when you're damn ready and I know you have a particular dislike for continuous promises and repeated not doing shit and you're about to get two handfuls of that shortly.
Answer me this on Jae then Nacho – do you really see him as that strongly Town. If Ari is scum (which I’ve given him enough time to demonstrate he isn’t by not playing directly to his scum meta) what do you think of Jae’s “maybe I’ve vote Ari who I have no actual scum read on or maybe I’ll vote MoI who I’ve called scum repeatedly” dithering as coming from Town?

--
In post 587, camn wrote:Hey Moi what was this about?
It’s one of my two character breadcrumbs I laid down on the first page.

Here’s the link to the strip in question Library Spider

Are you still avoiding answer those questions I asked in for a reason?

Also, what made you ask this 500+ posts later?

--
In post 603, Socrates wrote:We are not allowing Aristophanes to die without posting.

Replace him, if need be.
Where is my dislike button for this post ….
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Post Post #605 (isolation #27) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:37 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

As said above I am on board with Ari scum - he's basically playing to his scum meta which I've identified him by in the past. The only reason I'm not voting him or saying "Intent" is DS hasn't posted a Vote Count in awhile and I'm not for Lolhammering.

Mod: There haven't been enough votes for me to deem it necessary but since you request, I'll post one ASAP.
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Post Post #634 (isolation #28) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:39 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

VOTE: Arist

L-1 people.

In post 628, Nachomamma8 wrote:My approach with Aristo is based on experience; I've been scumpartners with him once, everyone knew that he lurked as scum, everyone picked up on him lurking as scum, scumpartners told him to post more, he essentially couldn't
This.

Princess Bride Mafia was this too a tee. He was in a hydra with Something Smart and my partner and lurked even thought he acknowledged it would get him scum read.

Look at posts 75 in the Mafia PT as an example of my frustration with Arist (and SS also). And at one point SS even tossed around the idea of faking a Arist post to get people to stop reading his lurking as scum behavior.
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Post Post #641 (isolation #29) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 639, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 256, Socrates wrote:
In post 253, SpyreX wrote:Half and half. I'm not passionate but i dont have something revving my desires yet
How much longer should we give Nacho before we kill him?
Is there a reason why you're torches and pitchforks when it comes to me and warm cuddles and dancing in the rain when it comes to Aristo? If you're his scumpartner, then it's probably time to just let him go. You can try to tie me to him while I'm busy lynching your other partner.
This is actually the best evidence yet I've seen for Socrates scum. There is absolutely no reason for him to be "Nacho's taking too long, hang'em high" and then later the same game day to be "Don't hang Aristo for lurking ... let him be replaced".
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Post Post #667 (isolation #30) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:01 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 653, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 551, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I’m Marten. Sorry to everyone that I got the cool main character and you didn’t! *
I am your mother, Veronica Reed (also known as Veronica Vance in my line of work). I am unsure why that needed to be said considering my crumbs were less crumbs and more "I AM VERONICA REED" in bright green lettering but if it makes you feel better, then I'm doing my job.
Yes, I get they were blatantly obvious hints. Just like LLD just did. My point is if there is already a mass-flavor claim underway I don't see the reason to not just say it as opposed to saying-it-but-not-saying-it. I mean anyone who can use Wikipedia or TvTropes can figure out even if they have no flavor knowledge.

And no, I will not take a picture with your dildo.
In post 659, Nachomamma8 wrote:well this time you got to wait for me to catch up in thread and be my beautiful self and if we didn't wait for Aristo to replace in we would have missed out on taking the easy layup which we might still miss if you don't fix your failvote and make it a proper L-1
Are you trying to get Spyrex to lolhammer Ari to make him feel better about missing out on his page 10 speed lynch?

Because I already put him at L-1.
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Post Post #672 (isolation #31) » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:12 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 611, Nachomamma8 wrote:If you're posturing for suspicion on me, I'd recommend dropping your "sheep to read" method and instead going all-in on getting me lynched; my dancing partners of late have been more frustrating than competent and it'd be a nice change of pace to deal with someone with a sense of rhythm
Let me also say for the record I'm mildly insulted by this after TV Kids Mafia ...
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Post Post #751 (isolation #32) » Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:52 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Things I want to say before this locks ...

Ari obviously is scum. Pretty clear case of scum motivated hammer. I have to look back since I'm rushing via phone to post this but whoever said "how do you know he's scum" shot up my scum read list - very much looks like attempting to stake ground for tomorrow on whoever they were responding to. Also LUV actually looks better from the way that hammer developed for reasons that should be pretty obvious. I really want to see what he flips given that his claimed character probably is one of the biggest assholes in the cast.

Dunn's claim probably means he is either a limited fruit vendor or a motivator. Personally I'd say Spyrex should be his target tonight.
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Post Post #868 (isolation #33) » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:29 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

LUV get’s immediate up-front-posting for these two comments / questions.

1. LUV – you need immediately to specifically claim that your “immune to all night actions” affirmatively includes Nightkills. Before you answer “I’m not sure” check with DS directly.
2. Why, regardless of the answer to question 1, did you not immediately claim your Ascetic status Day 1?

I’m holding my vote until these get answered.

Also – has got to be the worst breadcrumb offered that I have ever seen. Literally randomly bolding letters in a post with no inherent pattern to it is not breadcrumbing. I could form Cop easily as well as Doctor easily. Hell I could form “I like butts” if I wanted. The fact that not a single one of you even commented on that makes me sad.

I also have a very hard time believing that Town LUV didn’t give out at the very least number 3 to a scum suspect from his list at .

--
In post 772, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Quick skim of his ISO leads me to believe that if Magna and/or Socrates had reason to kill Nacho.
In post 826, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:pedit:Camn: I was going to give out that invention but I decided not to last minute. I wanted more info and the Nacho kill while puzzling, makes me feel confident in one of my reads and has made me suspect MoI.
I’d really like to see your reasoning for why you keep claiming Nacho’s death points to me. Please elaborate.

--
In post 777, camn wrote:BUT- I wouldn't discount the idea that one of us players who has played with nacho a ton killed him off. I know I fit into that category.. but its true. We all know he is a difficult mislynch, and kind of terrifying when he is on point. So I wouldn't rule out a pre-emptive strike here. Or grudgekill, LLD?
So is there anyone in the game you think would not qualify with knowing Nacho is a tough mislynch? And would have not learned that in the scum PT?
In post 816, camn wrote:conclusion 2: Uzi is probably town, cuz if scum he DEFINITELY gives out some power to his buddy. Unless he is lying about it, and actually did. Probably its not a fakeclaim cuz we can force him to prove it, right?
So why don’t you even consider he is lying about the inventor claim given the very dubious breadcrumb and lack of Night 1 action?

--
In post 791, JaeReed wrote:Uhhh, but that claim looks really scummy? He can make up items to give to people is how I read that. That's a scum role on EM.
Ok how much experience do you actually have here on MS? Inventor is a pretty non-oddball role that is very commonly Town (but can be either alignment)? Have you never seen one in all the games you have played / read here?

--
In post 812, kraska77 wrote:Also good to see im not the only one who thinks killing nacho over moi is weird
So you think I was more obv-Town and a better kill … yet you have me as probably scum today.

Walk me through that kraska …
In post 837, kraska77 wrote:I'm also 1 shot commuter
Game could potentially end up with hqlf the town being untargettable if what hes saying is true
Which is why it's not
Did you commute last Night kraska?
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Post Post #897 (isolation #34) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:50 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Well let’s get the important part out of the way first …

VOTE: Lil Uzi

I wanted him to confirm actively that he was claiming to be fully Immune to Nightkills. His confirmation of such tells me there is zero chance he is a Town role when taking into account my own role, his claim and claimed ability to give out a One-Shot Bulletproof. I’m not even considering whether kraska’s claimed 1 Shot Commute is true or not.

So he’s flipping either Asshole or some oddball third party role. That much I’m sure of. I say third party due to … that I’m positive is due to me asking DS to confirm that the following language from the OP made third parties impossible …
In post 0, DiamondSentinel wrote:Setup Specific Rules and Details:

There are confirmed to be 2 factions in this game. Not-Quite-Assholes and Assholes. Their win-conditions are simplified (they are expounded upon later in the rules), but are as follows in the role PMs.
Not-Quite-Assholes - You win when all Assholes are out of the game, or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Assholes - You win when you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.
I asked him to confirm that he meant there was not possibility of third party roles. DS refused to do so.

Frankly I'd not be surprised if LUV flipped some 3rd party role. It would explain his complete reserved posting which I have been reading as nervous Newb scum afraid to make a wrong move. But in any case I know he isn't flipping Town.

Camn’s and are so bad I can’t decide if she’s chainsawing for Uzi or not. He flips Asshole and Camn should be absolutely lynched tomorrow if not killed somehow overnight if Town has the capacity.

--
In post 882, JaeReed wrote:@MoI sorry this was actually kinda jerkish and narrow-minded of me. I was being a crank :/
No worries … I’ve got pretty thick skin. If you would like to discuss further tomorrow (assuming we both live) I’ll certainly be willing to.
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Post Post #901 (isolation #35) » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:19 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 898, kraska77 wrote:magna if youre online....
do you still think jae's scum?
He’s not as high on my list as he was pre-lynch Day 1. I’m grappling with my read being tainted by my drawing an initial impression of his play that set up expectations he definitely didn’t meet once we got into Day 1.

After Uzi I think Camn and Socrates would be where I’d likely go next pending an Asshole or 3rd party flip.
In post 899, kraska77 wrote:not really...you kinda plummeted in my lists on day 1 from town to null after your jae push
i just thought that if scum were going for a high profile kill or sth outside the robot pool then if ure town, you make a lot more sense than nacho as a kill
you were more present and involved on day 1. nobody was particularly townreading nacho as far as i remember...i find it weird that they'd kill him over you if youre both town
See this is where I’m having trouble connecting with your logic. You are saying I dropped with you to not be a Town read. Do you think others were Town reading me despite you not agreeing (and clearly Jae also was not Town reading me)?
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Post Post #911 (isolation #36) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:23 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So time to look for crumbs of Jae’s Night 1 investigation …

Here’s the scoop on why I hammered LUV – his claimed role I didn’t see possible in the scope of the game. See I am Bulletproof – no X shot or whatever. Full BP. So I felt that LUV claiming himself to be immune to Nightkills and able to hand out a 1-Shot BP was inordinately overkill.

So this is an important reason why lying as Town is bad which I hope LUV takes to heart.

Anyway I claimed since there is no chance I’m getting shot by scum after yesterday.

Also ...

VOTE: Camn

I'll lay out why I think this in a later post ...
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Post Post #914 (isolation #37) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Also – with Jae’s flip I think it is pretty clear that Arist was probably the equivalent Goon for the scum team.

--

So looking through his ISO this is the strongest Innocent crumbs I can see –

and – welcome to basically Confirmed Town land Pisskop.

And looking at Jae’s posting day two regarding how LUV and Dunn conflicted I think it is entirely possible that unless scum have a RoleCop that is why Jae may be dead.
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Post Post #915 (isolation #38) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:43 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 912, Socrates wrote:Prev-Edit: Magna, How does your BP interact with poison? I forget how that tends to work.

And your case on Camn better be fucking rock solid, because your snipes at her was as bad as she herself was saying.
I assume just fine. To paraphrase the wording in my Role Pm - everyone loves me so any killing action targeting me will fail. And Arist's PM specifically says his kill "targets".

As for your threat - spare me Socrates. I get lynched today for hammering a lie that contradicted my own role I get lynched. I made peace with that the second LUV flipped Town. But my flip will give credence to my case whether you find it "rock solid" or not.
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Post Post #921 (isolation #39) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:00 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 918, Socrates wrote:The hammer on a lie that was contradicting your stated role is the only thing you have going FOR you, Magna, since he WAS lying. It's everything else surrounding the hammer that makes me go HMMMMM.
Well either vote me or don't. Your going HMMMM really is of little interest to me.

Also Pro-Tip - I was not the first person to bring up the concept of LUV being 3rd party. What do you think about that?
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Post Post #923 (isolation #40) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:13 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 922, Socrates wrote:Really? I missed this. Who? And when?

And your melodramatics about my suspicion is not helping.
You really are rusty aren't you. You think me blandly telling you "Vote me or not" is melodramatics? I mean - that's pretty bad. If I get lynched due to LUV lying I get lynched. Life goes on. I'll make my Camn case and my Town flip with posthumously make it clear it is coming from a Town perspective.

Well you missed it because you couldn't see it - I was LLD's best friend. Although that was only for yesterday and last Night. Now she has a new best friend. In fact that the only reason I even asked DS to confirm the possibility of third parties (which happened in the PT) whic led to his post was because LLD said basically "Yeah, he's third party".

And if camn somehow isn't scum LLD would be my first choice. She ostensibly Neighborized me to "sort" me as her biggest question mark but really did nothing to prod conversation between us.
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Post Post #926 (isolation #41) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 925, Socrates wrote:I'll be sure to keep this in mind, but my problem wasn't the idea of Uzi being third party. It's that you used the fact that the mod wouldn't confirm the presence of a third party as supporting evidence for the hammer!
Explaining why I thought he was likely 3rd party if not scum is not "supporting evidence". The only reason I needed to hammer him was him claiming being immune fully immune to Nightkills and able to hand out a 1-Shot BP also.
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Post Post #927 (isolation #42) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:37 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 924, Socrates wrote:And the thing I'm getting at here is that this hole you've dug isn't as deep as you seem to think it is. Especially when you claimed to have a thick skin. But maybe you wouldn't realize this if you ARE scum? Do you panic this easily as scum?
You seriously think I'm panicking? Lol.
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Post Post #929 (isolation #43) » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:49 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 928, Socrates wrote:Your whole thing about thing about how you've "made peace with your mislynch but I hope my case on Camn will live on!" and then throwing insults at me is the very definition of panicking.
No, not really. Being realistic is not panicking. Panicking would be going ALLCAPs yelling about how stupid everyone was for voting me blah blah blah.

The fact you continue to try to frame my posting as worried or panicking is suspect Socrates.
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Post Post #964 (isolation #44) » Fri Dec 09, 2016 5:23 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MOD – I will be V/LA starting at 3pm EDT today until Monday morning as normal. Also activity today may be spotty as I have some unforeseen complications to my regular schedule.


Given my activity restrictions today my Camn case presentation will have to wait until Monday at the earliest.

Now that we’ve had more WTF claim contradictions I’m moving pisskop from Confirmed Town to Town. If even half the claims on the table are correct then a Godfather is an absolute possibility and thus a Cop Innocent is not 100%.

And let’s talk about the claims. Flipped Roles

Aristo (Beatrice) – Basically a Goon with alternate kill method and vote restrictions.
Nacho (Veronice) – 1 Shot Sensor
LUV (John) – 2 Shot Inventor (1 each of 1Shot BP, 1ShotRB, 2Day Kill preventor) and Ascetic
Jae (Dora) – Cop

Then we have the following claims

MoI – Full BP
LLD – Neighborizor (claims multiple targets, each last 1 Day and Night cycle)
Kraska – 1 Shot Commuter Miller
Socrates – 1 Shot Commuter with some drawback
Camn – 1Shot Neighborizing Modified Hider
Dunn – Very vague Robot Upgrader

I’m having a hard time buying camn’s claim as stated. Firstly the logic of “scum would choose to tree-stump me” falls majorly flat since it is effectively a guilty in her logic and would make her able to report said guilty. On top of a full Cop and a 1-Shot Sensor that seems pretty questionable. Also “It’s 1 Shot and I’ve failed to use it twice but now it’s gone” seems pretty weak.

@Camn
– who did you try to Neighborize each Night?

@Socrates
– why didn’t you claim your drawback Day 1?

--
In post 930, Socrates wrote:But you ARE implying that I'm stupid for voting you in a very backhanded way.
No, not really. I’m flat out stating that your reasoning for claiming my hammer was bad (discussing the question about 3rd party possibilities and the Mod not confirming or denying) are pretty nonsensical given the actualities of the game-state. That’s NAI as having bad reasoning isn’t solely a Town or Scum trait.

Did you actually read the Mod snippet I posted? I asked him to confirm that the language as written was meant to signify only two alignments (as it does as stated) or if he meant it to mean “at least two alignments” which would allow for 3rd parties. Given he refused to comment left the option open for 3rd party roles.
In post 942, Socrates wrote:Considering Magna's description of their interactions, I might be willing to believe that LLD is the odd one out, but how does neighborizer fit with you supposedly being an upgrade-able robot?
Why, if you think I’m scum, do you believe anything I said about the PT without my flip?
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Post Post #1004 (isolation #45) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:02 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Am back and will be catching up with this later today or tomorrow worst case.
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Post Post #1005 (isolation #46) » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:12 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So first … catching back up on the thread …

--
In post 965, camn wrote:You need more votes if you want a full claim from me.
My claim is an unrovoked counterclaim. If you think I made it up... that is interesting.
Noted. The fact that you are claiming to have an exhausted 1 Shot ability (which you claimed to have tried to use twice and failed each time) that you refuse to claim actual targets for says to me you are lying to some degree. Not that hard a parse Camn.
In post 970, camn wrote:I would think that too... But everything seems wrong.
We are failing with our setup speculation.
This I think needs highlighted for the discontinuity it has to Camn’s claimed suspicion and vote. She continues to vote Spyrex (with hints, of course, that she will back off is he does) and call him a suspect. This post on looks very much to me like “Building in the excape hatch” for when one of the other Robots flips Town.
In post 984, camn wrote:I believe the result. And the sanity rules are strict now, right?
I am town too.
Which leaves Spyrex.
Or a fakeclaimed 4th robot.
Or all robots town.
Of course you do. No reason at all to suspect a Godfather with as much Town power as has already flipped.

Town Camn isn’t this bad to absolutely ignore the glaring neon sign flashing to all Town players about the possibility. Nope. Yet Camn doesn’t even blink in that direction. Nope … just buddies right up to pisskop while pretending that Spyrex Town automatically means all Robots are Town.
In post 1003, camn wrote:My flavor fits like a glove, though. DS did his research. I would be surprised at any flavor mismatches....though I also anticipate full flavor fake claims. Not that people always use them.
This will play into my case on Camn whenever I can get to it but look at this and tell me with a straight face that Aristo with a fully flavored fake-claim didn’t bother to use it? Not like he was caught unaware … the mass flavor claim came in WELL before he was lynched.

--
In post 967, SpyreX wrote:Actually I'm pondering something. I think i prefer tomorrow but something about the setup just clicked. Remind me about this.
Consider this your “Monday is a day after Sunday is a day after Saturday” reminder Spyrex.

--
In post 976, Socrates wrote:Because I wanted the scum to try to kill me, otherwise my role is useless. and besides, I at least USED to be more than capable of rolling with this particular drawback without it ever becoming an issue. Maybe that isn't orthodox town play, and maybe I'm not the player I used to be, but it's the truth.

Rest assured, if I felt like it needed to be shared, I would share it.
My issue is that a true Negative Utility role should always be claimed Day 1 right out of the gate. Just like kraska did. Maybe you are Town who thinks they are too good to play by the book. Maybe not.
In post 976, Socrates wrote:Do we really have to play this silly game?
Yes, we do. I don’t really care if you like it or not or suspect me or whatever. I’m trying to sort you. Part of that is digging into you and getting reactions. For the most part the main reason you aren’t at the top of my scum list for your Day 1 play is that

1. I’m reading Camn as my top suspect.
2. I don’t think you are partners.
3. I find it unlikely (but possible) that scum you would soft-chainsaw for Arist as you did right before his lynch.

That doesn't mean I should cast a blind eye towards your slot in case my Camn read is incorrect.
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Post Post #1029 (isolation #47) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:40 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

As long as two players can confirm independently that Dunn’s role actually works then he’s pretty solidly Town in my book. Otherwise he would be scum who locked themselves into a Day 1 claim about improving Town’s power overall given that scum Dunn means at most one of the robots is scum. The mass flavor claim Day 1 also gets Town points given his claim.

--
In post 1008, camn wrote:Maybe.
IM OPENING MY BACKDOOR, MAGNA!
What you choose to do with your own robotic body is no concern of mine but maybe broadcasting it so publicly makes you look a little trashy Camn :P

--
In post 1011, SpyreX wrote:I really think it's kop
Why? Something more than a pithy one-liner might be appropriate in this circumstance.

--
In post 1013, kraska77 wrote:Let's lynch pisskop then
Whatever he flips ( I think he'll flip scum), we drop the whole there's scum in the robots deal after

Or lynch MoI....can't really see anyone else as scum
I’ve given you some wide latitude given your early Miller claim but the laziness in this post is making me doubt now.

How many scum do you think are in the game?
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Post Post #1037 (isolation #48) » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:11 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So now that Camn case I have been talking about.

I’ll keep this as concise as possible …

1. IAI and Camn interactions.

IAI (scum) begins catchup at . Generally not much to say on Camn other than assessing her vote at is good. Nothing definitive in the completed catchup at . So Camn is basically a non-entity.

But let’s examine Camn’s reaction – and . There is more or less an hour between these and I think that’s telling. 238 is basically “OMG, IAI is so scummy for that IIoA”. She retracts this in 239 saying “catchups are always scummy looking”. I think this highlights Camn having inside information given the reaction in 238. The immediate vote when she had posted nothing about the slot before feels very much like “Better get on board the bus early” gut reaction to a bad series of posts by IAI. Yet after some reflection she backs off saying “Cold Catchups are always scummy … give IAI some time”. Which is a rational back-track for a partner when she got no immediate reaction to her “GO GO GO” lynch previous post.

Then in 299 we get “IAI is still scummy but I prefer a pisskop vote” which is textbook Suspect Partner, vote Town.

2. Camn and Aristo interactions.

There are really none until the point that Aristo is getting lynched. And the fact that Aristo lurking is his scum meta and Camn’s love for lurker lynches (see ) I would expect some pressure on Arist from Camn. Instead we get the pre-flip posturing seen in .

Meanwhile Aristo doesn’t talk to Camn but soft defends her to others. At asks kraska to explain her Camn vote. And further suggests at that kraska’s vote is suspect due to a lack of Camn discussion in kraska’s ISO.

3. Lack of logical trajectory on her reads and actions towards me.

Let’s start with her Day 1 readslist at – I’m Town.

Day 2 comes along and Camn helps fuel the LUV wagon until the point of claim. She hops off to vote me in and . Ok, she’s changed her position. It can happen given how little there is to either of her reasons for reading me

Day 3 comes along. Now at the end of Day 2 I was supposedly her top scum read. And I just hammered a mislynch on a useful Town PR. Yet today not only does she come out firing at Spyrex but doesn’t respond at all to me calling her my top scum suspect. There is no continuity of thought to the manner in which her read on me waffles. If I was scum Day 2 and came out today calling her my top suspect why does she not say I’m scum trying to mislynch her? That would make sense.

Instead she’s doing everything in her power to avoid my wagon. Which is the kind of behavior I would expect from scum who hoped today would be an easy lynch on me run by mostly Town and doesn’t want to be shown pushing the mislynch.

4. Reminder about the following quote –
In post 357, camn wrote:But im town, and will be conf by tomorrow or the next day for sure.
So today is the next day. Camn should be confirmed Town per her own statements. Yet nothing of the sort has occurred and her claim doesn’t give any reason for her to expect this either.

5. Nacho buddying

This is pretty straightforward – easy way to pad how correct your read on Town you are going to Nightkill is by strongly buddying up to them in thread.

6. Strange posting regarding flavor –

I noticed this in my Night 2 re-read of Camn (which LLD can confirm). Early on the following post is odd –
In post 30, camn wrote:Also, Dunn... I doubt that flavor will indicate alignment. Everyone in the comic is pretty grey, morality-wise. Except Claire and Hanners, of course.

Actually I guess the robot fighting pit-boss maybe is pure evil.
Notice the angle she approaches this from. She doesn’t mention that scum are likely to have fake-claims (which is pretty standard from competent Mods). Which would be a reasonable stance. Instead her angle is “Everyone is morally grey” which I then offhand show her not to be the case.

Why this struck me on re-read is the fact that Aristo claimed the flavor he flipped. Why would he have not chosen to claim a safe-claim? Beatrice is, as I have said, one of the most Assholish of the people on this list.

Those two elements make me believe that scum don’t have flavor claims other than their assigned characters and either have no safe-claims or simply have safe-claims of roles. The first being the case would explain why she’s claimed some oddball 1-Shot Modified Hider role that she supposedly used twice, has failed twice, that she can’t use again, and why she has refused to claim the targets of her failed uses.

So there you have it. As concise as I can make it.

Be cool – vote Camn.
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Post Post #1043 (isolation #49) » Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:16 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@pisskop and LLD
– If you think Camn is scum please move your vote to her. Right now you are on singleton wagons and the only way the day is going to progress is if we get a wagon built. Camn is scum and a great place for your votes.

--
In post 1038, camn wrote:I got no reaction in between back to back posts?
Why wouldn't I wait for people to.. react.. if I was looking for a quickwagon? Doesn't fly. If I wanted to bus- I would give people some time. This was a real live reconsideration on my part.
Of course it was reconsideration – you realized that your vote looked suspect as hell and didn’t want to actively bus. As I said (and you are ignoring) – your initial vote was a gut reaction based on knowning IAI was your scum partner and the re-evaluation was realizing that’s the only reason you would vote. Thus the very awkward distance from it.
In post 1038, camn wrote:Except Pisskop might be scum. So if he flips scum.. is this classic: caught one scum, voted other scum? We will see.
Only way pisskop could be scum is if you were Town. And we both know that’s not the case.
In post 1038, camn wrote:Aristo was a replacement.. not a lurker. And I know bussing/wifom/whatever.. but I feel like I was reasonably active getting him dead.
Also- I was smart enough to "get on board the bus early” with IAI.. but not smart enough to do it with Aristo? I don't think so.
Nah he was a lurker the second he replaced. It is why he was so easy to read – he was playing to his scum meta. And the bolded is pure straw-manning of course – as stated above you recognized your vote on IAI was obv and distanced from it an hour later.
In post 1038, camn wrote:Consistency is for scum. Also, this is big words for OMGUS.
Nope. Having a thought pattern consistent with scum-hunting is Town. Your posts don’t show anything of the sort. They do show, however, scum looking to stage their position on wagons so they look good.

Throwing in the OMGUS buzzword here also made me chuckle.
In post 1038, camn wrote:The night actions didn't go as I forsaw.
Lol. I mean … that’s all that can be said about this. Any action that could reasonably confirm you as Town would not be subject to “unforeseen turns of Night actions”.
In post 1038, camn wrote:Here Magna claims that I am scum.. and I know that my partner is Beatrice, as he says- "one of the most Assholish of the people on this list"... AND there are no fake-claims........and then I claimed that flavor likely wouldn't indicate alignment.
By his own logic, saying that flavor won't indicate alignment in this scenario is the one thing scum WOULDN'T say. Its actually a towntell
Nah. Again with another attempt to slant the discussion away from what was being said (aka scum play). The fact remains – scum would be the only ones in position to know that flavor analysis could possibly screw them and there aren’t fake-claims. Which is why your initial comment resembles an attempt to pre-empt people flavor hunting. So not a Town tell at all.

Of course you could just own up now as to whether you and your partners got any fake-claims and settle the issue.
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Post Post #1051 (isolation #50) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:39 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Personally at this point I don't think the thread being more or less a back and forth solely between Camn and I is helpful. I've made my case. Others need to weigh in.
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Post Post #1066 (isolation #51) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:41 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1061, Dunnstral wrote:For people voting camn right now, what are your reasons for doing so?
Try reading the thread.
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Post Post #1069 (isolation #52) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:45 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1067, camn wrote:Dear everyone who is voting for me... lets fast forward- I will not be lynched today.
I >might< be nightkilled tonight.. but probably not.
Tomorrow you might lynch me.
But not today.

That is all.

VOTE: Pisskop
More votes this way ...
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Post Post #1074 (isolation #53) » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:02 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1070, camn wrote:
In post 1068, pisskop wrote:Oh Im an innocent child.

bye camn
Prove it.
I just wanted to highlight Ms. "I claim when I want how I want" posted this.
In post 1073, Socrates wrote:
Nuh-uh Camn, this is a bridge too far. If you have something that should save you, then out with it already!

VOTE: CAMN

Pre-Pre-edit:

Dammit, pisskop! Fun fact, did you know that I got burned by a godfather really badly in my very first non-newbie game? I want to believe that you're town, but you're giving my nothing to work with, here!
For the record this is L-1. Since Socrates didn't bother to mention it.
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Post Post #1123 (isolation #54) » Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:47 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 4:30 EST today until Monday morning as usual.


Unconvinced that Camn’s claim is any reason not be lynching her. Frankly the narrative she’s trying to foster makes no sense.

1. If she thought her claiming Vig automatically cleared her as Town – why didn’t she just shoot a suspect last Night? This directly conflicts with her “I’ll be confirmed Town” backtrack discussion we had just today.
2. Vig is a pretty common site Scum claim these days.
3. Why not talk things over with Dunn – the person who upgraded her N1 and must assuredly be Town from Camn’s perspective as opposed to Jae?

My prediction – if Camn isn’t lynched tomorrow shows up with only 1 death, it’s a Town player, and Camn begins to spin the WIFOM of “Oh, scum kill was blocked due to many BP and protective roles” song and dance which is unproveable. So my vote stays.

--
In post 1076, camn wrote:My defense isn't LOL INNOCENT CHILD!!
Irrelevant. Pisskop isn’t getting lynched today in any case due to the Cop Innocent on him. So pretending he needs to activate a power that would only cut down on the minimal Godfather worries while under zero pressure is scummy. And your "I want to shoot him" song and dance is irrelevant also. You doing so and him flipping Innocent Child shows you are likely scum faking the Vig claim with the regular Mafia kill.
In post 1083, camn wrote:But you read my claim.. so can I assume, pisskop.. that you think I am scum that got upgraded to a second kill.. and chose not to use it night 2 so I could chat up a townie about who to kill?
Nah. The assumption is that you are outright lying about what role you got upgraded into prompted by Spyrex’s Gunsmith claim. Probably you killed Jae yesterday and claimed him as your ‘second’ Neighborize target on the off chance a Tracker is in the game and saw you.

--
In post 1054, Socrates wrote:On the other hand, Magna, how do you feel about the fact that Camn's waffle on IAI came just a few posts after I said that all catch-up posts read as scummy?
It has little impact in my read of Camn. Yes, I saw it also. You both are suspect for calling out IAI as scummy for questionable reasons (catchup posts are not inherently scummy). As I stated earlier you don’t strike me as scum together. Camn’s vote and retract combined with the rest of her ISO re: Arist looked scummier than your play. Now is Camn Town? If so you’d be near the top of my list for scum..
In post 1073, Socrates wrote:Your reaction to this is confusing the hell out of me. I just talked to Magna about scum over-reacting to minor statements about them by townies, and now here you are.

But again, all other logic points to you being town.

I asked you to stop making my spidey-senses tingle!
Well if you aren’t scum perhaps you need to recalibrate your senses then if you think Dunn is absolutely Town and are still floating this “overreaction” line of thought.
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Post Post #1132 (isolation #55) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:48 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1131, camn wrote:I mean... If we can't lynch pisskop...let's lynch Magna.

His case on me is essentially, "Nah."
He thinks I'm lying about being a Vig...except I'm a FREAKING YF-29 VECTORED-THRUST STRIKE DRONE...., and odds are I will just prove it tonight.
He is actually pushing to lynch me just assuming there will only be one kill..instead of waiting till tomorrow and knowing for sure.
Why? Cuz I'm gonna shoot him or one of his scum mates in the face, which crimps his style.


So fuck it.
Plus he talks too much.
If you don't lynch Camn for being an obv-scum after this post I don't think there is hope for any of the remaining players in this game.

1. May makes ZERO sense as a Vig since she is an Ex-Con Robot who was introduced being paroled from Robot Jail. Hell the body she was given was literally falling apart and had mismatching skin tones. The whole "Vector Foxtrot Spam Drone" shit is just posturing and bad posturing at that.

2. The bolded is pure scum slip which shows she knows I'm not scum. How you ask? Look at what she says - she's going to shoot me or "one of my scum mates". That slip right there is very telling. How the hell in a 12 player game do I have multiple partners for her to shoot when Aristo is already dead? Hmmmm? She's floating a 4 person scum team out of 12 players. Nope on a rope, not happening. So Camn in her bluster spam accidentally leaked that she knows I'm Town since the only way there are two scum left aside from me is for me to be Town.

3. Again - if Camn isn't lynched today and only 1 kill occurs - don't be Newbs and not lynch her.

4. Remember her "I needed approval from Jae so I didn't shoot N2 which would have proven myself blah blah blah" explanation? Doesn't match up to the super confident "IMMMA VIG THE SKUMZ" we see above. Since she's just flailing regarding her claim in hopes of escaping the noose.

CONFIRM VOTE: CAMN THE OBV-SCUM
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Post Post #1173 (isolation #56) » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:43 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1162, kraska77 wrote:piss i think youre scum
if ure town ure really not giving me any reason to reconsider
why do you want to lynch spyrex?
BTW before i forget to mention - this is a very solid candidate for partner with Camn ...
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Post Post #1250 (isolation #57) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Back from V/LA ..

I see Camn continues to AtE about how she’s Town and scum will “take care of her” and basically trying to ignore all the salient points against her. Pretty clear scum play. Why no more votes people? I mean look at Spyrex’s for exactly why Camn’s Vig claim is Fake McFakeClaim Pants.

Socrates’s content as of late has been, even if I am going to be charitable, bad. Lots of little questions at people and no drive to actually present conclusions drawn from those interactions.

--
In post 1229, camn wrote:What has Magna done that's so town?
He pretty much has just tunnelled me all game.
Literally this could not be more false. And even those voting / scum-reading me have to admit so since the reasons I’m being voted is “LUV hammer and opportunistically shaping reads” which by definition refutes “MoI has only tunneled Camn”.

--
In post 1143, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I neighbourized you because I was suspicious of you, but rationalized that Camn and Kraska were worse.
Regardless of how much she actually puts in effort in the PT to sort players this is consistent with the reasoning I gave when I asked her why she chose me and that she was thinking of choosing Spyrex the next period for the same reason.

--
In post 1160, Socrates wrote:And I can't see Lady and Spy being scum together. How do you feel about Lady?
Reasons are tek! Why don’t you provide them?

--
In post 1175, kraska77 wrote:not really
i have reasons to think moi is scum, and reasons to think everyone else other than you is town
This is probably the only other vote I would make today if for some reason Camn isn’t lynched.
In post 1203, kraska77 wrote:and camn hasnt votehopped?
if ur point is lld is too out there to be scum then why isnt camn town too by that logic
she voted all 3 of u moi and spyrex up untill now
I mean this literally screams “CHAINSAW FOR PARTNER CHAINSAW FOR PARTNER” ….
In post 1219, kraska77 wrote:I'd rather we lynch MoI today
MoI scum flip guaranteed
A reminder in bold if I ever do get lynched – this is scum throwing Rhetoric …
In post 1234, kraska77 wrote:Like it's the perfect opportunity to capitalise on a mislynch
We all knew the ascetic part of the claim was balls
In fact that was the only thing that have me pausee and made me hesitate to lynch luv
Why would scum pass up the opportunity to call lying town a liar?
And this is why Kraska is scum.

The Ascetic part of LUV’s claim was, you know, true. As shows. The issue I had with LUV was he lied about being BP on top of Ascetic which clashes with my Role hardcore.

So kraska is just spinning lies here to support her suspicion. While also chainsawing for Camn.
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Post Post #1254 (isolation #58) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:50 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

And Camn pulls a Beetleguese right after my comment ... how quaint ...
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Post Post #1266 (isolation #59) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:10 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

-

Also want to bring to everyone’s attention the following –
In post 1232, kraska77 wrote:Shrugs
I would have done the same as scum
In post 1233, camn wrote:Exactly. Its a free hammer.
Both of these attempts to say my hammer on LUV is scum betray that neither Camn nor kraska is actually scum-hunting me. Because for scum to want to hammer LUV for lying they would have to KNOW LUV is lying about being Bulletproof. Otherwise it is an immediate death sentence if LUV flipped as he claimed. Both just happen to be dodging whether they believe my claim or not.

Meanwhile kraska has subsequently retracted her stance that LUV was lying on being Ascetic () with an “OOPS, missed that” without even a rethinking her stance that it was an easy scum hammer.

Scum gotta scum as they say …

--
In post 1251, camn wrote:You don't have any salient points.
Your argument is that I am lying...But I'm not. It's not worth the back and forth...Cuz either my flip or me shooting someone will prove the truth of it.
Oh … so your response is “Trust me, I can shoot” when you didn’t bother to shoot a scum suspect N2 and confirming yourself then. Yup that’s not suspect at all /off sarcasm. That’s not refuting a point that’s 3rd Grade “NO U” schoolyard behavior. But as to the other salient points you also have missed …
In post 1250, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Literally this could not be more false. And even those voting / scum-reading me have to admit so since the reasons I’m being voted is “LUV hammer and opportunistically shaping reads” which by definition refutes “MoI has only tunneled Camn”.
In post 1123, MagnaofIllusion wrote:2. Vig is a pretty common site Scum claim these days.
3. Why not talk things over with Dunn – the person who upgraded her N1 and must assuredly be Town from Camn’s perspective as opposed to Jae?
Handwaving number 2 with “I don’t care” again is “NO U”. And the response to number 3 was dodges the fact that Dunn should be confirmed Town to you given the claimed upgrade.
In post 1043, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Nope. Having a thought pattern consistent with scum-hunting is Town. Your posts don’t show anything of the sort. They do show, however, scum looking to stage their position on wagons so they look good.
In post 1043, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I mean … that’s all that can be said about this. Any action that could reasonably confirm you as Town would not be subject to “unforeseen turns of Night actions”.
Again for the record – you could have supposedly confirmed you were a “Vig” last Night but instead just happen to have Neighborized the one person who died. Convienent.
In post 1255, camn wrote:Wait...THIS is why my claim is fake?

I actually liked Spyrex's setup spec. I wish Magna was being more lucid and gamesolvey and..... actually town so that he could weigh in on it.
Gunsmith with cop and vig vs. posioner.
Cop with Miller and ??? vs. godfather? Weren't you into a godfather, Magna?

Which would, if this game is elegant, presume the presence of a third investigative role, and a third scum that defeats it. Ninja and Tracker, I assume?
Oh you mean you wish I would spend my time arguing Set-Up Spec that Town can’t possibly know is valid as opposed to pushing you as scum for your in-thread scum play? I’m sure you do with that.

Godfather is a possibility. So is Pisskop not being a Godfather. Why would I hinge my reads only on the possibility of a Godfather? Town shouldn’t do that. Sure, they take it into consideration in their analysis. But don’t lean 100% on it.

You seem to fluctuate between “OMG Pisskop obv Godfather scum” and “Spyrex scum for XYZ as of late” depending on the temperature of the thread at that moment as opposed to actually having a read on their play.

Everone else
– I also want to bring to your attention the way she is addressing me in this post. It’s not someone she thinks is scum (which is the narrative her vote and posts are attempting to sell). Why should Camn want a scum suspect to be more gamesolvely when it would solely make them harder to lynch?
In post 1256, camn wrote:What's 'pulling a Beetleguese'?
You know what you just did – getting called out in thread and minutes later appearing as if having been summoned.
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Post Post #1267 (isolation #60) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:12 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1261, kraska77 wrote:yeah
this doesnt look like it
but im still having the problem of finding everyone other than moi townier than you
Yup yup don't want to make too many enemies in thread today ...
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Post Post #1273 (isolation #61) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:38 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1269, kraska77 wrote:its not like luv being ascetic is an integral part of why i think youre scum?
fact still remains that i had a lot more to say about the way you were addressing luv than his flip
you keep cherrypicking the most irrelevant posts to berate and dodge the bulk of my actual case on you
You don't have a case worth addressing frankly. But to humor you let's look at it in all its majesty ..

In post 1181, kraska77 wrote:oh yeah about moi
stuff that make moi scum
1.
the way he went from "pisskop welcome to confirmed town land" at the start of the day, to "camn not considering the possibility that pisskop might be godfather is scummy and theres no reason to take the jae check at face value" after pisskopscum sentiment started flying about the room, and then back to "im not lynching pisskop today and i dont think hes scum"

2.
is really weird. a lot of what is in moi's iso, as of the start of day 3, looks like hes been trying to anticipate where most of the votes will be going and then cooking up reads accordingly

3.
that in addition to him desperately trying to paint jae as scum on day 1 even after the wagon on jae dissipated...feels like he had trouble faking fluidity of reads and jae was an easy picking anyway
and on day 2 a lot of his exchange with luz reads like moi is prejustifying the mislynch and stressing that luz is scummy rather than...ya know...genuinely trying to figure out what is going on
I added the bold numbers so this exchange can be followed easily -

The first point is a misrep since you missed one important word from my initial post –
In post 914, MagnaofIllusion wrote:815 and 824 – welcome to
basically
Confirmed Town land Pisskop.
I’ve bolded it so you can see it. And said word modifies Pisskop as “Confirmed Town 100%” to “Confirmed Town with caveats”, the caveat being Godfather. The possibility of a false positive was in my mind from the start. Yet Camn immediately ruled out any chance of the investigation being wrong since “Sanity rules are strict” which absolutely isn’t the case. Camn is not a Newbie. She knows this is a Theme Game and sanity is a possibility. So what you are trying to paint as a change of opinion isn't anything of the sort.

The second point isn’t even a point given you are just making a sweeping statement that you can’t back up with any sort of examples. Aka throwing rhetoric.

The third point is you actually arguing for a Town perspective given I was pushing a player I suspected and didn’t stop just because a wagon didn’t form / died down.

The whole “Jae was easy pickings” is also contradicts your first portion of this point – if he was “easy pickings” he would have gotten much more pressure than he did.

Finally on this point again I point out that me seeing a lie that contradicted my own role isn’t “prejustifying a lynch” but scum-hunting. You keep dodging that point (just now you said “well his claim isn’t even a big part of my case”) so we can throw that out in your mind?
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Post Post #1275 (isolation #62) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:41 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1250, MagnaofIllusion wrote:A reminder in bold if I ever do get lynched – this is scum throwing Rhetoric …
In post 1259, camn wrote:Just a reminder for when and if I flip....This is scum throwing rhetoric.
So cute of you to try to steal my own lines for yourself Camn … you have good taste in Mafia role models!

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Post Post #1276 (isolation #63) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:41 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1270, kraska77 wrote:
In post 1266, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Meanwhile kraska has subsequently retracted her stance that LUV was lying on being Ascetic (1257) with an “OOPS, missed that” without even a rethinking her stance that it was an easy scum hammer.

Scum gotta scum as they say …
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Post Post #1279 (isolation #64) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:52 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1277, kraska77 wrote:easy picking as in jae's posts were something you poked holes into to look like you were doing something, when its just copout from real scumhunting
So in other words you are just saying "You aren't scum-hunting" without pointing to single thing that supports your stance ... gotcha.
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Post Post #1282 (isolation #65) » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1280, DiamondSentinel wrote:Camn [3] MagnaofIllusion, Socrates, SpyreX
SpyreX [2] Lady Lambdadelta, pisskop
LLD and Pisskop
- if you could move back to Camn that would be great!
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Post Post #1313 (isolation #66) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

And now the AtE appears. How quaint.
I’m bolding this so no-one misses it and it is 100% clear – Camn’s AtE display is pure bull.
She is not some emotional wilting flower. She’s been on site longer than I have and played through 2010-2011 where CAPS LAWK RAGE and spamming rhetoric were everpresent. She’s friends and hydra buddies with Katsuki who employs the “spam and ignore” technique. And she is a great admirer of Fate’s play from that period (not so much now since he has mellowed) and he defined that playstyle. So there is no way in hell that she’s upset about being pressed as scum by me. Sorry, there just isn’t. She’s just exploiting the stupid weak-spot most of this site has for fluffy AtE as scum who is worried about being the deadline lynch. It’s a good move on her part as it is playing to her WIncon – she needs to survive badly given one of her partners is already dead.

And make no mistake she’s prepping for my Town flip (which she knows will occur) with posts like . And this post is prepping for tomorrow in the case of my mislynch …
In post 1312, camn wrote:Then let's worst case it:
Say Magna flips green, I mis-vig and the scum kill you, Dunn. That leaves 5, LYLO, and a 3:2.....
BUT Then the problem is solved. Townbloc = camn, kraska, Socrates...And the scum are the 2 remaining. Autowin.
That's WORST Case.
There is only going to be one kill tonight if you don’t lynch Camn. And it will be on Town. Camn will either claim that she was blocked if it is an obv-Town player or that the scum kill somehow got prevented if it is someone she thinks she can sell as scummy. In either case despite it being 4:2 she will still press to get a lynch on whichever Town she has left to push as scummy (and she’s already staged that she is willing to lynch any of Pisskop / LLD / Spyrex today so one of them) as opposed to No Lynching because her surviving a second Night after her fake-claim means she’s busted.

@Socrates
– After reading if you stick around the site do your best to avoid games with me. I certainly will do the same. Because if you are Town that post borders on game-throwing and I can’t stand Moral High Ground hypocrisy. And if you are Scum then every time I cross paths with you in future games you’ll be a policy lynch for me.

--
In post 1284, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:What's your opinion on Dunnstral's post, MoI?
It’s what I expect from Dunn. He’s not that strong a player. The only way I see him as scum is if he’s partners with Camn and even then I think that is a stretch. Tomorrow if neither Pisskop or Spyrex (whoever of them is still alive) can’t confirm that Dunn upgraded (or if Dunn claims the other upgraded player as someone who just happens to be the Nightkill) then I’d consider it a possibility. But I don’t see scum able to upgrade Robots when only 1 of the 3 claimed Robots can possibly be Mafia.

--
In post 1290, Dunnstral wrote:camn doesn't strike me as the type of person to self vote as town
THIS!


Do not let Camn skate by on the AtE tomorrow.
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Post Post #1315 (isolation #67) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1314, camn wrote:Of course...now here is a bunch of more crap, like how I love original FatePlay? I think the 2011 caps-rage time is about when I quit the first time. I have whole threads devoted to how I hate it...But as far as I can tell, you aren't interested in the truth of things.
Care to find a thread supporting this? It should be trivially easy for you if that's the case.
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Post Post #1324 (isolation #68) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:47 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1305, kraska77 wrote:I think this is scum trying to intimidate people into thinking they're town
As a reminder – Camn flips scum and this is like 75% her partner.

--
In post 1316, camn wrote:Buffy the Vampire Slayer. April, 2012.
You were in this game with me!
I praised you for being intolerant of it.
Oh you mean this game --- Buffy Season 1 by LMP?

Because that’s an oddball as heck game you are trying to use as support for you not liking being pressured. Firstly because you were scum. Second because you weren’t getting scum-read you ended up replacing because ..

Subject: Mini 1322 - Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season One (GAME OVER)
camn wrote:I dont play with people who wont play.
Monkey (who was Town, BTW) wasn’t even calling you scum. He just wasn’t answering your questions.

So basically this is precedent that you would throw your hands up as scum because you weren’t getting your way? Is that the take-away I am supposed to have? I’m really confused what your point is in directly quoting from that game.
In post 1316, camn wrote:I do appreciate that about you. Your use of words.
But this game you have been saying too many and reading not enough.
See … no. You don’t get to make that sort of blanket statement without (and here’s a flashback right back at you) [CITATION]. What are you claiming I haven’t read? Just because I don’t find your answers (or lack thereof) convincing doesn’t mean I’m not reading.

You claim is a cobbled together mess. I don’t buy the argument that your super modified Hider claim makes sense or that you thought you would be confirmed Town from it. I don’t buy that said claimed role would be upgraded into a Vigilante. I don’t buy that you were upgraded to a Vigilante N1 and didn’t use it N2 while instead ended up targeting the Mafia Nightkill since you seem to think being confirmed as a Vigilante would make you irrefutable Town.

I don’t buy your play from Day 1 to 2 to 3 makes sense coming from a Town perspective of someone actually hunting for scum.

You are trying to characterize my play as “nonsense” () when its not.

Now, on to other things that I think bear being addressed …
In post 1301, camn wrote:He's right about the bulletproof thing. Is he scum bulletproof...And then gets all butthurt that there might be TOWN bulletproof?
Of course... He is calling me a liar, too....So maybe that is just his MO- to say "that claim's a lie".
And was he bothered by Pisskop ALSO claiming bulletproof? I don't think he was.
See this sort of response is why I don’t think you are really scum-hunting as opposed to lynch shopping.

The “MoI was butthurt that LUV claimed Town Bulletproof” angle makes ZERO sense. If LUV actually was Bulletproof (which he wasn’t) then it would be shooting myself in the foot to counter-claim him and hammer him if I was scum since his Town BP flip would doom me. So that line of logic is completely borked. The add on “He’s calling me a liar” is also pretty bad given I think you are fake-claiming Vig as scum given the way your claim doesn’t hold up and the fact that LUV actually was lying.

I wasn’t “bothered” by Pisskop’s BP claim for several reasons. First the Cop Innocent (and I know we’ve discussed the possibility of Godfather to death). Secondly the obviousness of the claim that if you were Town you would not be bringing up.
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Post Post #1327 (isolation #69) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:16 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1325, camn wrote:
In post 1324, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Because that’s an oddball as heck game you are trying to use as support for you not liking being pressured.
Jesus. Are you trolling me? Seriously?
Cuz let me bold for emphasis.
In post 1315, MagnaofIllusion wrote:
In post 1314, camn wrote:Of course...now here is a bunch of more crap, like how I love original FatePlay? I think the
2011 caps-rage time is about when I quit the first time. I have whole threads devoted to how I hate it.
..But as far as I can tell, you aren't interested in the truth of things.
Care to find a thread supporting this?
It should be trivially easy for you if that's the case.
In post 1314, camn wrote:
I'm not upset by being 'pressed'.

Just by the futility of talking to you. It's depressing and sad.
You don't seem to even read my responses
, except to dismiss them out of hand.
Just repeatedly bolding something doesn't make it any more reasonable than the first time you said it.

You quoted two posts before you replaced out of a game as evidence of "whole threads devoted to the topic". And the quoted posts when read in context have nothing to do with Fate-style Caps Rage. Monkey in that thread was clearly not Caps Raging or spamming or using any sort of rhetoric attack. He simply wasn't answering your questions. That's it. I don't see the correlation.

And once again - not agreeing with you doesn't mean I am not reading the thread.
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Post Post #1330 (isolation #70) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:39 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1328, camn wrote:
In post 1327, MagnaofIllusion wrote:And the quoted posts when read in context have nothing to do with Fate-style Caps Rage.
In post 1316, camn wrote:I dont need this neo-Fate meta where we dont bother with logic or questions, and we just quicklynch after quicklynch and the scum have a 70% win rate.
Really?
Fucking really.

Monkey's play was absolutely in no way, shape or form any sort of close approximation to how Fate played. I'm not sure why you think that is the case.

But I really can't connect to your mindset given that game you were decrying Monkey for a push on Town player that was making your job AS SCUM easier by making a mislynch possible. I mean - I guess I could see it then from a "Farm Town Cred by arguing against a Mislynch" play but you replaced out so that's out the door.
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Post Post #1333 (isolation #71) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:49 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1326, camn wrote:it's because you aren't reading.
You claimed I loved Rage-play as a reason any emotional outbursts I had being blatantly false.
I mentioned that I don't even like that style of play.
You said prove it.
I immediately quoted the first 2 example s I found.
You forgot why you asked.
Umm ... Katsuki your good pal is a practitioner of that style. I don't see you guys working so often together as a Hydra if you so strongly dislike that playstyle.

And as stated - you quoted two examples from 4 years ago in a game whose relevance I question based on context.

You said you had WHOLE THREADS devoted to this hatred of you. I asked you to link them. You linked two posts from a game. That isn't a thread devoted to the topic. It's a couple of posts.

That's me not forgetting why I asked. It's me questioning why you think those are relevant and wondering where those threads are.
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Post Post #1338 (isolation #72) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1336, camn wrote:SPYREX!

He is crazy full of shit and is trying to creep a deadline lynch onto me. ME!
Get on his wagon, or give us a viable alternative.
If you let this nonsense fly, I will know you are scum for sure.
Don't forget LLD and I are scum together.

And pisskop is that scum Godfather.

Man - 5 scum in a 12 player game is pretty harsh.
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Post Post #1339 (isolation #73) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:04 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1335, camn wrote:You should see our QTs.
I get brutal.

The reason we are a good team is because of how DIFFERENT we are.
But relevance?

I'm going to crush your bones and make a slurpee out of your bone marrow.
Well I don't see you working with a CAPS RAGER so often if you dislike the playstyle. And a shame I can't see those PTs huh?

Maybe that's me but I can't comprehend it. You would not have seen me back in the hydraing with Fate or Reck or Socio or any of the crowd whose playstyle I despised.

But sure - I'll fully retract that you love the CAPS LAWK playstyle.

Doesn't change that your self-vote was pure AtE garbage. Or that you are scum.
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Post Post #1341 (isolation #74) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:08 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1340, camn wrote:Your face is garbage.
See this is the sort of deep philosophical response that you were talking about in those posts from Buffy ...
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Post Post #1361 (isolation #75) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:45 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@pisskop
- Can you please get back on Camn? Clearly kraska will not bus her so we need every Town vote possible to get this scum lynch accomplished.

--
In post 1352, SpyreX wrote:The fuck is this camn?

I havent slouched. I've been fairly clear about my issues there and if you paint this as me vs moi the stabbin stick is gonna come up camn every time.

And grudgekill for a year. Woo
The answer to your question is – Scum flailing around trying to get you to push through her pet mislynch today so she can turn around and try to mislynch you in MYLO.

--
In post 1356, camn wrote:But if you are saying you wanna buss Magna, now is the time. There are still Town points to be had.
Nope I’m Town. But thanks for more empty Appeal to Repitition.
In post 1358, camn wrote:And I'm sorry I live in Asia...But I just came off a night shift and I gotta go to sleep now.
You guys get your shit together while I'm asleep. Decide what kind of people you want to be.

Real Townies don't murder camn. Scum murder camn.
Nah real Townies don’t try to drown the thread in AtE. That’s what scum does …
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Post Post #1367 (isolation #76) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:58 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1362, Dunnstral wrote:I don't think kraska is scum, though. What's your reason for suspecting her?
Look at her ISO today. It is empty of scum-hunting. She literally has me as her only suspect and suspects pisskop "because he's less Town than the rest". I know from my POV that she's guaranteed 50% wrong and my read on Pisskop is Town so I'm guessing she is 100% incorrect. She's content to just try to keep the Appeal to Repetition train that camn is also riding hoping repeating "MoI is scum" will get camn off the hook.

Every time I point out what little she puts in the thread is not actually scum-hunting she either moves the goalposts ("So what if my reasoning for calling you scum for LUV was completely wrong ... it wasn't a big reason I was scum reading you anyway") or ignores.

Frankly given my Camn read and how strongly she is trying to save Camn I think my initial overnight assessment is correct - scum don't have fake characters to claim and got stuck with the three most obv suspects (Beatrice, May and Sven). I refer you back to my assessment of Camn's "Oh, everyone could be scum" post from Day 1.

Why do you think she is Town?
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Post Post #1368 (isolation #77) » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:59 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1364, pisskop wrote:No.

We arent nolynching.


thats awful.
Then vote Camn so we can lynch scum ...
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Post Post #1400 (isolation #78) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:31 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1372, camn wrote:I write this only about 20℅ out of self preservation at this point...Since, despite your tunneling...I don't think you have the votes to lynch me rn.
And this very fact is why I think you are scum. It has been impossible to get you even to L-1 without you self-voting. Meanwhile it was trivial to get Spyrex to L-1 on the last few pages. Scum aren’t bussing at this point having already lost one player and being close to MYLO.

My question to you is – why is kraska Town to you? You’ve said jack all about that slot and the fact that you both are working more or less in tandem since Day 2 is a big flashing red warning sign that everyone should be looking at.
In post 1372, camn wrote:I have been begging him for the last couple days to come up with a suspect. To tell me who he thinks is scum... But nothing.
I am getting a stronger and stronger feeling that he is scum here. I don't have a hard argument for it other than just the ABSENCE of Spyrex-town. He has buddied you pretty well (which is not a scumtell in my book, fyi)...So you might be reluctant to pivot on him. But if you would just look over his ISO with a clear head..You might see it.
Here’s a question since this is basically predicated on meta (lack of Spyrex Town) – when was the last time you played with Spyrex Town?
In post 1394, camn wrote:I dare MOI to come at me tomorrow saying that I pivoted into a bus.
Look, more empty chest puffing …
In post 1396, camn wrote:If you were a Vig, and you couldn't shoot ME, who would you shoot?
Kraska 100%. No hesitation. The Miller claim only buys so much grace and her play today looks like scum. It also doesn’t help that you haven’t mentioned her in any significant way since you did what could easily be some soft distancing Day 1. I mean since there was no real pressure there at all it was nice and safe for you to lay those “suspicions” that just happen to have evaporated after Aristo gets lynched.

--
In post 1376, kraska77 wrote:i still think spyrex is probably town but his persistent vote on u makes me less and less comfortable calling him town
In post 1377, kraska77 wrote:besides this really looks nothing like pisskop's scumplay.............
anyway magna wagon has stalled out and i have zero fucks to give at this point

VOTE: spyrex this is l-1
By the way this is pure scum. Dunn as Town for me is confirmed by him twigging right to that fact also.

A flash wagon appears on kraska and I will hammer without a second thought.
In post 1388, kraska77 wrote:VOTE: moi
okay
no this is still the best place to vote
today should be a lynch in moi/camn
otherwise tomorrow will be a rerun of today's jamboree
Yup absolutely scum.
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Post Post #1402 (isolation #79) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:05 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1401, kraska77 wrote:guys you dont have to read any of moi's future posts
i can summarse them all 4 u
" *quotes post*
yup this is scum
so scum"
Yup I get that you can't actually argue against what I'm saying so resort to this.

Why not add a pointless meme while you are at it?
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Post Post #1406 (isolation #80) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:22 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1403, SpyreX wrote:Id swing a last minute kraska wagon before i vote moi
So Spyrex and I are on board.

Dunn needs to comment on whether he'd join or not.
pisskop needs to comment and make his vote useful at this stage.
LLD needs to comment.

We have a little over a day to get this accomplished.
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Post Post #1407 (isolation #81) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:32 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1404, kraska77 wrote:such bullshit
camn is definitely the person ive interacted the most with this game
we've been either going at eachother's necks or bonding the entire game

the rest of your wall is just rehashing the same "look at this quote right here, so scum" line ad nauseam. something uve been doing the ENTIRE DAY
This is "tearing apart my wall"?

Firstly I was talking about camn interacting with YOU not the other way around. Reading is fundamental!

Secondly you haven't been going at each others throats in any signficant way. Day 1 you made nice little posts claiming suspicion of each other but none of those posts ever occured when there was any pressure on either of you. And those distancing posts disappeared IMMEDIATELY Day 2 after Aristo died. Now camn is pretty much not commenting on you at all and you are doing everything you can to keep her lynch from occuring. Very much looks like partner - partner interactions ... distance early and then after you bussed your other partner (note that Aristo self-hammering makes all the sense if you both were already parked on him) defend defend defend.

And the last part is ironic coming from you ...
In post 1388, kraska77 wrote:VOTE: moi
okay
no this is still the best place to vote
today should be a lynch in moi/camn
otherwise tomorrow will be a rerun of today's jamboree
In post 1305, kraska77 wrote:I think this is scum trying to intimidate people into thinking they're town
In post 1298, kraska77 wrote:Conversely, A red MoI flip will clear you so let's do that instead of do you really think he's town now
In post 1289, kraska77 wrote:Since when has Socrates been voting camn wtf
Dunn what now
Vote MoI with me already. unless you want camn lynched instead?
In post 1221, kraska77 wrote:@dun, Socrates
Vote MoI cmon
In post 1219, kraska77 wrote:I'd rather we lynch MoI today
MoI scum flip guaranteed
But pisskop and the whole scumrobot business, I feel really shaky about
Just a sample of the litany of empty posts and repetition of "MoI is scum" and "Vote MoI" coming from your slot today. And that's 100% Town, right? But if I am pure scum for doing it.

The Cognitive Dissonance is strong with this scum.
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Post Post #1409 (isolation #82) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:40 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1408, kraska77 wrote:yeah yeah more bullshit
i stopped reading after this V because youre clearly cooking up bullshit here
In post 1407, MagnaofIllusion wrote:And those distancing posts disappeared IMMEDIATELY Day 2
the "distancing" (lol) stopped day 1 after i read those camn posts where she said she has a strong emotional reaction to me. i said as much then, i said i felt i was genuinely upsetting her and i said i was going to give her a break. its all there in my iso so dont you dare deny it
and ever since then, camn has been bleeding town so......
Again the "I'm just going to call it bullshit so I don't actually have to address any of those other points" handwave. Tek.

And "Oh and that wasn't scum looking for a way to back away from the distancing we did Day 1 with some AtE excuse" is also quite quaint given it doesn't actually refute anything I said.
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Post Post #1414 (isolation #83) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:32 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1412, Socrates wrote:MOI, serious question, has scum self-voting in order draw pity ever actually happened -- and WORKED -- on this site in the last few years?

My experience had always been the same. Player gets fed up with tedious arguing that goes nowhere, genuinely gives up, self-votes because they don't want to play anymore.

Everyone else shouts "AtE! AtE! AtE!" and then they proceed to get lynched almost every time. I have to admit that it's been a long time and, if I have seen the self-vote gambit work, I have forgotten it. Even the times I saw it flip scum, they were still genuine about giving up.

I think Camn was genuinely upset. Maybe she's not some 'wilting flower', but this game, more than most, has the power to seriously get under people's skin, especially when you feel like your main antagonist is being not just endlessly contrarian but also snarky and condescending about it at the same time.

The thing is, from my shoes, if Camn was just being being shrewd about how to best survive, all she had to do was talk to me. I think anyone can see I was not all that interested in a Camn lynch, and the only reason I hadn't yet bothered to move my vote off of her wagon was because she was in no danger when I was last online and I am slow about moving my vote around. I think a calm, manipulative Camn would see this and start engaging me directly rather than start flailing on some futile AtE gambit that just makes everyone else go "ha ha! gotem!" and has only drawn a collapsing wagon back onto her.

I think she was genuine about being upset and wanting to quit, so I ask you the following because you seem to have the most experience with her (though to hear her tell it, you're the last person to ask this question): Would Camn be more likely to get frustrated and quit as town or as scum? I've been reconsidering and maybe THIS is the time the scum overestimates my read on them.

(I'm also serious when I say that faking that kind of behavior is straight up bad sportsmanship in the first place and if she demonstrates a consistent pattern of doing this I will be policy voting her in the future.)

PS: The feeling's mutual.
So on the first part – you are not asking the correct person. I’ve returned to site about 9 months ago. So I can’t tell you what has and hasn’t worked for scum over a few years. My gut says if I combed through Radiant Cowbell’s games I could find a scum game where he self-voted for the AtE. I’ll probably do some looking on that after I finish this reponse.

But about “AtE” getting people lynched – unless you have evidence to the contrary I strongly disagree with this sentiment. Now I'm specifically not talking about self-voting but general AtE but I think it still applies. Since my return I have seen example after example of people AtE ing as scum and getting Town read for it. Quickest example I know off the top of my head is Clumsy in SirCakez’s DC Dual Universe game. Clumsy was the scum in question on Earth 1 who did it. My post-game comment to TellTaleHeart about it was the following …

Subject: Micro 609: DC Dual Universes uPick - Game over!
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
@Telltale
- remember this game in the future if you ever are tempted to give someone a Town read for AtE. Had you not been hit in the feels Day 1 we might have been able to get Clumsy lynched.
.

As to whether Camn is more likely as scum or Town to self-vote? I can’t really tell you. I don’t know her well enough to have a solid backlog of her games to reference. We’ve already linked the Buffy game where as scum she replaced out . I don’t think it is a stretch to say she wouldn’t self-vote as scum based on that.
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Post Post #1422 (isolation #84) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:27 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1421, kraska77 wrote:if moi were really town who scumread camn, he too would have realised that, from his point of view, lynching camn is the most protown thing he can do today
but hes scum
I must Lol. Really. Because it's like you are trying to sell that I haven't been struggling to lynch Camn all day and am not still voting her.

I mean ... seriously ... this can't be Town kraska posting this.
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Post Post #1423 (isolation #85) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:28 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1420, kraska77 wrote:anyway tl;dr is do not fucking lynch camn. even if im somehow clossally wrong about moi and hes flips town, DONT LYNCH CAMN
jesus this game is frustrating
Translation - if I get my mislynch and my partner off the hook then don't flip her tomorrow so we can win in MYLO ...
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Post Post #1425 (isolation #86) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:46 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1424, kraska77 wrote:youve been "struggling to lynch camn" since day start, did i ever deny that
but halfway through the day you began smoothing the way for a mislynch to me, as soon as enough antikraska sentiment was around
and now that you see you have enough support, youre shifting gears
See this is why I can't see you as Town. You and Camn have flipped votes back and forth between myself and Spyrex today. Camn in particular multiple times. And you see that as obv-Town behavior.

Yet now you are peddling that I'm scum for being willing to lynch who I think is Camn's partner because I'm "gearing up to change". Why is it obv-Town for you to move between scum suspects and scum for me to do so.

The answer is - you aren't actually scum reading me. You are trying to sell me as scum. Huge difference. Otherwise you wouldn't try to suggest that I'm not Town trying to lynch a scum suspect other than Camn.

@Everyone
- Please look at these posts ...

--
In post 1408, kraska77 wrote:and ever since then, camn has been bleeding town so......
In post 1421, kraska77 wrote:if moi were really town who scumread camn, he too would have realised that, from his point of view, lynching camn is the most protown thing he can do today
but hes scum
I means – WTF is this? Camn is bleeding Town to kraska.

Yet then kraska attempts to sell that if I was Town I’d understand that from my point of view lynching Camn was the most ProTown thing I can do. WHICH IS WHAT THE HELL I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO ALL DAY LONG.

So I’m scum for pushing on obv-Town Camn. Then I’m scum for (mind you, I still am voting Camn) scum-hunting who I think is Camn’s partner and being willing to vote there if they get to L-1. Because if I was Town I'd be lynching camn

WTF? I mean, seriously WTF? How does anyone read this as Town?
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Post Post #1446 (isolation #87) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:08 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

VOTE: Kraska

LLD has pledged her vote which means we should only need 1 more.

--
In post 1415, camn wrote:What do you think, Spy... Like..3 times just this year?
And you really think this looks any different than Town Spyrex then? Because coming off Defcon 4 Mafia I don’t see much of a difference. Now I can’t say I have any direct Spyrex Scum experience since my return but still … I don’t see scum reading him for “Lack of Town Spyrex” when this looks like Town Spyrex to me. And I have other things aside from meta I Town read him for on top of that.
In post 1441, camn wrote:Miller claim before a cop claim.
It's too balls.
Um,whut? That is like pants on backwards hat on sideways wrong Camn. Because you don’t claim Miller (or fake-claim Miller) after a Cop has claimed. That’s a ticket to lynchville. So I don’t see why you think it’s “too balls” … it is the only play.
In post 1441, camn wrote:Return question: you said that you are really suspect of how easy it was to get votes on Spyrex... But that you would hammer a kraska-flash-wagon in a heartbeat.
I know that you have different reads on them... But isn't it kind of the same thing?
Maybe. But I’ve been Townreading Spyrex before today so him getting a quick swing to L-1 with two scum suspects on the wagon resonates with my reads given the difficulty in getting you over 3 votes. Kraska on the other hand I’m scum-reading, I’m Town-reading Spy and Dunn and Piss. So the only vote (or pledged vote as it were) that is even remotely questionable is LLD.

Maybe I’m confirm biasing but that’s where I am. I’m sure your response will be something along the lines of “Well I’m not scum-reading anyone but LLD on the Spyrex wagon”. But there we are.

And Town Camn should not mind too much since she gets a chance to Vig scum who pushed the wagon if it is a mislynch.

--
In post 1426, kraska77 wrote:again, i dont care what you've been doing all day long
the fact that youre trying to campaign for a lynch on me now that deadline is looming speaks volumes
And those volumes are entitled “Kraska is scum and I would like her lynched” …
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Post Post #1459 (isolation #88) » Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:31 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1458, Socrates wrote:All those promised Camn wagoners, get back over here.
VOTE: Camn
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Post Post #1501 (isolation #89) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:54 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1481, Dunnstral wrote:If only 1 person dies, we're not in a bad situation.
Well we certainly aren’t in a better place either. If we No Lynch and only 1 person dies unless that person is Camn we are just in the exact same place tomorrow as we are today. And then we No Lynched to bring no clarity to the situation. Camn being lynched means that we at least know for certain her alignment and worst case No Lynch to move from MYLO to LYLO.

--
In post 1476, camn wrote:If Magna is town he's gonna say it's my fault, cuz ego.
If you are Town Camn then the game is probably lost for Town then. But I don’t think you are Town so I’m not dissuaded by scare tactics.

I do REALLY appreciate you pre-judging my reaction though. Thanks … it made my day …

--
In post 1478, SpyreX wrote:So lld and i are partners?

Why would she have neighborized me?
Let’s be fair Spyrex – this is at the heart a WIFOM argument.

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Post Post #1502 (isolation #90) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:57 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1500, kraska77 wrote:Phewwww
Delayed your decision whether you wanted to not bus and go against your "No Lynching is bad" stance or bus and lose your partner knowing I'd be out for your blood and you can't Nightkill me, huh kraska?
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Post Post #1504 (isolation #91) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:27 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

I'm not disagreeing but it is going to be taken from a WIFOM perspective for those not you or me.
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Post Post #1508 (isolation #92) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:22 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1507, Shadow_step wrote:Can the deadline be extended so that I can catch up?
You already got 24 hours. Don't know if he will give you more but no harm in asking.
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Post Post #1514 (isolation #93) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:44 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1513, camn wrote:If it's true, it points to LLD and pisskop then, IMO.
Or LLD and myself, from your perspective.

Don't forget, I also am a 1-shot Neghborizer.
And if we are speculating on night actions...Obviously me neighboring Jae night 2 wouldn't make sense if I were scum. Why kill the guy I am neighboring? Now that would be a waste.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PISSKOP

A shitty deadline lynch should be on a lurker.
THAT is a slot we lynch for 'clarity'
MY slot you just have to ISO.
No, we aren't deadline lynching a Cop Innocent even if you want to claim "Lol Lurkers are better deadline lynches". Sorry, that piss poor play and not Town at all. Even if you want to float Godfather concern. So no, we aren't lynching that for 'clarity' given Jae's result.

Also a question - do you think there are both a Godfather and Miller in this set-up?
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Post Post #1515 (isolation #94) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:46 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1512, camn wrote:Your vote is parked on me, a townie, putting me at L-1.
Oh look, if I call myself Townie over and over maybe people will believe it.

Hey Camn, I'm totally Town and the fact you have tried to mislych me today is bad and you should be ashamed.

I guess I can do the same ...
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Post Post #1517 (isolation #95) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:55 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1516, Socrates wrote:Camn, I've been thinking about your suggestion about bouncing your shot off a claimed BP. Magna would be a terrible idea, because if we misslynch today, a BP scumMagna can just lie about the notification and autowin, but testing Pisskop might not be a bad idea. A BP Godfather with the potential to be further upgraded (assuming he's actually a robot)? That seems crazy. Either he's lying scum or we confirm you both.
This is very bad. I mean just terribly bad. You aren't seriously suggesting that Camn 'vig' (and I use the term loosely since I'm fairly confident she's fake-claiming scum) the Cop Innocent are you?

You do understand that Pisskop's "I'm 1Shot BP" in response to Camn's earlier suggestion was clearly pure bullshitting on his part, right? I mean it is pretty clear to me given the play we have seen out of him.

So answer me this - we go to night not lynching Camn and letting her 'vig' pisskop. Then tomorrow roles around with one of two scenarios -

1. Only 1 kill and pisskip is dead and flips Town.
2. Only 1 kill and it is someone else who flips Town.

How to you proceed in these scenarios?
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Post Post #1520 (isolation #96) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:01 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Pisskop ...

[]========

Shadow can get caught up overnight and with Spyrex in their PT ...
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Post Post #1527 (isolation #97) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:08 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1525, SpyreX wrote:But what about our pt.
And mine with lld soo.many to keep up with
Umm Shadow is LLD ... so he'd be catching up with you ...

:?
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Post Post #1529 (isolation #98) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:11 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1523, Socrates wrote:You seem to forget that BP's are notified when they get shot, so...
Diamond said if their BPs are used up they are notified.

If you are talking to me specifically I am unlimited so it would never be used up.

So there isn't any reason to assume that I would be notified.

@MOD
- would an unlimited BP be informed of being shot?
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Post Post #1575 (isolation #99) » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:51 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Hey this is a phone post to say I am in Hawaii so no huge post from me til Jan.

Mod should know I am VLA.

No lynch is absolutely the play here with piss revealed as IC.

Would like to hear from Shadow about his PT with Spyrex and if he has a new PT or not.
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Post Post #1580 (isolation #100) » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:51 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

:mad: Both Piss and Spyrex disappoint me in that ignore the context of Piss claim in saying my post doesn't make sense ... really you two?

Still enjoying Hawaii so nothing indepth from me now.

Am going to look back at camn now that she flipped town.

Somewhat suspect of SHadow as that Kraska / MoI post looks like Final Mislynch staging and Camns Neighborizer flip means duplication between Shadow and camn.
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Post Post #1613 (isolation #101) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:27 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Quick post to say officially back from vacation. Will go over the thread and get some comments in later today I think.
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Post Post #1616 (isolation #102) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:42 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

VOTE: No Lynch

So I went through the posts (aka not cell phone skim-reading like I did on vacation) and came to the conclusion that there was not a ton of information that warranted response or comment given we are going to No Lynch.

is scummy frankly given that more the ‘content’ is commenting on already dead (and thus Mod confirmed alignment wise) players and the comments on actually living players either flip-floppy (I get Town points but am hard to read) or incorrect (dinging Socrates for participating in a name Mass Claim as scummy).

--
In post 1551, pisskop wrote:I have a theory I want to test tonight actually
Out of interest did this actually happen or was it you shooting the shit / gambitting?

--
In post 1583, KuroiXHF wrote:64 pages, eh? I won't be able to be all caught up, but I'll try to be by tomorrow.

BTW, I'm not scum.
And I'll stick to that story!
@Spyrex
– your opinion of this as a SomethingSmart awkward as heck entry post?

--
In post 1589, Socrates wrote:Shadow, could you give us your perspective on the neighbor threads between your slot/MOI and your slot/Spyrex?
So what does it say to you that Shadow didn’t do this, that LLD didn’t want to comment on the Spyrex claimed PT and that Titus isn’t bothering either?
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Post Post #1619 (isolation #103) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:59 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1618, Titus wrote:Moi, u wanna fite me tomorrow?
Glad to know you have no chance of dying tonight Titus.
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Post Post #1651 (isolation #104) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:30 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1561, DiamondSentinel wrote:
Spoiler: Day 4 Comic
Image


During Night 3, Dunnstral died. They were
Faye Whitaker
.


Spoiler: Full Role PM
Image
Welcome Dunnstral. You are
Faye Whitaker



Alcoholic Robot Repair Technician



You are
Not Quite an Asshole
!



Underground Welder
(Active): At night, you can choose another person. If they are a robot, they will get an additional ability, stronger than their normal ability, after taking one night of no action for the upgrade. If they are not a robot, this action will yield no result. You will not know the result of your action.

Serious Alcoholism
(Passive): So… You’re kinda an alcoholic. Ok, really an alcoholic. You need help, but for now, there’s not a lot to be done. Because of this, you can’t use your ability on consecutive nights.

Win Condition
: You win when all Assholes are out of the game, or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Faye... You're a really tragic character. You grew up in Georgia, all happy-like, but then your dad blew his head off in front of you. Damn. After that, you got in a massive wreck, and hurt yourself pretty bad. You recovered physically, but you were never quite the same mentally. As such, you decided to start anew and move up to Northampton, MA. It's here you met Marten. You guys hit it off, but due to mental blocks, you just couldn't get together. After that, you hooked up with Sven, but that fell through, and then were going out with Angus, but that didn't work. Now you've been fired from Coffee of Doom because of your drinking problem, and are working in the Robot Fights as an underground mechanic. I hope things go well for you...


Day 4 Initial Vote Count
Not Voting [6]MagnaofIllusion, SpyreX, Shadow_Step, Kraska77, Pisskop, Socrates



With 6 alive, it takes 4 vote to lynch someone!


Day 4 is 4 days shorter due to reduced playercount, but 2 days long because of the hollidays. As such, Day 4 will end in (expired on 2017-01-05 12:00:00)

Also, Kraska77 has asked to be replaced.

Also:

ATTENTION:

After an earth-shattering epiphany, you guys have all realized that Momo is far too idealistic to be an asshole. I mean, come on!

As such, she (and by extension Pisskop) has been revealed to be
Not an Asshole
!
[/quote]

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Post Post #1659 (isolation #105) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:16 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

@Kuroi
– well I was wrong on Camn but at least I didn’t vote the Mod confirmed IC … Lol
In post 1652, KuroiXHF wrote:While you're here. Want to tell me why a no-lynch is a good idea here?
This isn’t rocket science Kuroi – just Mafia Basics 101.

Pisskop is the only universal Town read (being an IC and all) and being BP will not die. Thus whoever gets killed is narrowing the scum pool for the remaining Townies.

The rest is simple math. 6 alive with 2 scum means MYLO. No lynching moves that to LYLO without losing an obvious Town read. And means that scum can be lynched at the 5 alive 3 to lynch threshold without bussing which is impossible at the 6 alive 4 to lynch threshold.

Why don’t you inherently understand this with your level of experience?

--
In post 1618, Titus wrote:Moi, u wanna fite me tomorrow?
Any reason you are not worried at all about your Post Restriction? Because clearly this post blows it out of the water for today.

--
In post 1635, SpyreX wrote:@moi i think its sketch but i want to keep things close to the chest for the time being
Well if you really wanted to keep things “close to the vest” you would not have even called it sketchy … but that’s another discussion.
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Post Post #1664 (isolation #106) » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:53 pm

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1663, KuroiXHF wrote:1. You're not confirmed BP.
2. Pisskop will probably die tonight. I see no reason why they wouldn't do that.
Maybe instead of posting more factually incorrect stuff you should fully get caught up. Because pisskop has already claimed to be BP.

So ....
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Post Post #1673 (isolation #107) » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:22 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Posting to say that I'm waiting for Night at this stage which will be coming either by No Lynch to be hammered or for the deadline to hit since there doesn't seem to be any movement from most players to parse who could be scum.
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Post Post #1707 (isolation #108) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:44 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Yeah .. it’s not as if my weekend V/LAs are a secret ..

VOTE: No Lynch

This shouldn’t be a surprise. Given that Pisskop has basically got some sort of mojo going I’m shocked that there wasn’t a quick succession of No Lynch votes to keep things moving til scum actually gets a kill.

Basically at this point figuring out who of Socrates and Spyrex is Town will be pretty damning to the Assholes.

--
In post 1692, Socrates wrote:Are you sure they didn't try to shoot you?

When I saw the lack of a kill, I figured the scum tried to call your bluff.
If you are Town Socrates what makes you think this sort of question at that juncture is in any way Pro-Town?

--
In post 1696, SpyreX wrote:If thats the case then why did the kill fail?
If you and kurio are confirmed do we just lynch then
Same question that I put to Socrates above to you SpySpy …
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Post Post #1709 (isolation #109) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:24 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1708, SpyreX wrote:Kop being an ic doesnt mean hes not above cheeky shenanigans. You'll note when he said kurio is also safe then no lynching is obvious
So the million dollar question - why did you immediately vote No Lynch before he revealed Kuroi as Town?
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Post Post #1711 (isolation #110) » Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:45 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1694, pisskop wrote:I guess.

Kurio
In post 1696, SpyreX wrote:If thats the case then why did the kill fail?
If you and kurio are confirmed do we just lynch then
This is the order that he claimed Kuroi was clear and your question.

So again - why did you think it was Pro-Town to even ask him, regardless of potential for IC shenanigans, if his clearing kuroi made No Lynch a no-brainer?
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Post Post #1737 (isolation #111) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:33 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

So we need to get DS’s conflicting treatment of BP status out of the way ASAP.

@Mod
– Please clarify the status of BP being used is informed of the BP holder ( versus ). If Pisskop was operating under the assumption he would be informed when his 1Shot was used given the first statement then I have an issue with how things potentially resolved (not knowing what actually happened).

I also agree Socrates’s outrage looks manufactured.

Also pretty much once DS clears up the BP issue I’m likely plopping my vote down on Titus and never moving it if the game continues.

--
In post 1718, Socrates wrote:If Pisskop falseclears a member of the scum team on shit logic, then we're done! That's game over! Trying to make sure he had actually thought things through before declaring Kuroi as town is the MOST Pro-town thing to do.
No, it wasn’t the MOST Pro-Town thing to do. Pisskop may be a player who does kooky stuff as Town but he’s not incompetent enough to fake-clear Kuroi (at least from the understanding he was operating under). Poking and prodding his claim when he went out of his way to be as obscuring as possible was not Pro-Town.

If anything I get the sense you are trying to undermine Kuroi’s status as cleared via Pisskop. Now if the Mod screwed up and didn’t give Pisskop the information he previously said he did – that’s a game compromising Mod error that I don’t think can be overcome and that will come out in due course.
In post 1729, Socrates wrote:Actually, before I leave, the thought just occurred to me that there might, in fact, actually be a serial killer in our midst, and between all of the protective roles in this game we might have just fluked our way into 1 kill a night the whole game!
If that is the case they are literally the worst Serial Killer in history. A more sane conclusion is that likely DS screwed things up on BP communications.
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Post Post #1739 (isolation #112) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:54 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1738, DiamondSentinel wrote:I cannot clarify it at this time. I apologize about this, but I will admit, the discrepancy is a mod error. Its nature and reasoning will be explained post-game.
Can't say as I'm thrilled with this response as it could have an absolutely material effect on the game.

--

VOTE: Titus

There. Done. Now we can wait.

I'm fairly certain that Titus is scum. I've mentioned before that LLD's Neighborhood behavior (specifically saying she was using it to 'sort me' but not trying to really interact with me / get a sense of my alignment at all) doesn't make sense as Town. Shadow played as I expected scum Shadow to play. And Titus's "Oh, I don't re-read it is against how I play" stance is pretty ludicrous given the entire LLD / me PT is literally a page long. Spyrex can speak to his experience with LLD himself. I'm guessing that there have been no further Neighborizations because after Camn's Town flip with a limited Neighborization power Scum Titus doesn't want it further examined by any other Town players.

So I've cast a vote in LYLO. One of two things happen ...

1. Scum coordinate quickhammer. Which means Spyrex / Socrates.
2. No quickhammer comes. From which we can determine that one of (or at least one of but from my perspective it can only be one) us is scum and the rest of Town decides who they would rather lynch.
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Post Post #1744 (isolation #113) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:00 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1740, Titus wrote:
In post 1737, MagnaofIllusion wrote:So we need to get DS’s conflicting treatment of BP status out of the way ASAP.

@Mod
– Please clarify the status of BP being used is informed of the BP holder ( versus ). If Pisskop was operating under the assumption he would be informed when his 1Shot was used given the first statement then I have an issue with how things potentially resolved (not knowing what actually happened).

I also agree Socrates’s outrage looks manufactured.

Also pretty much once DS clears up the BP issue I’m likely plopping my vote down on Titus and never moving it if the game continues.

--
In post 1718, Socrates wrote:If Pisskop falseclears a member of the scum team on shit logic, then we're done! That's game over! Trying to make sure he had actually thought things through before declaring Kuroi as town is the MOST Pro-town thing to do.
No, it wasn’t the MOST Pro-Town thing to do. Pisskop may be a player who does kooky stuff as Town but he’s not incompetent enough to fake-clear Kuroi (at least from the understanding he was operating under). Poking and prodding his claim when he went out of his way to be as obscuring as possible was not Pro-Town.

If anything I get the sense you are trying to undermine Kuroi’s status as cleared via Pisskop. Now if the Mod screwed up and didn’t give Pisskop the information he previously said he did – that’s a game compromising Mod error that I don’t think can be overcome and that will come out in due course.
In post 1729, Socrates wrote:Actually, before I leave, the thought just occurred to me that there might, in fact, actually be a serial killer in our midst, and between all of the protective roles in this game we might have just fluked our way into 1 kill a night the whole game!
If that is the case they are literally the worst Serial Killer in history. A more sane conclusion is that likely DS screwed things up on BP communications.

Voting me, regardless of the mod clarification while flinging shit is not a good look on you MoI.

VOTE: Moi

Just tell me which of Spyrex or Socrates is your partner.
In post 1741, KuroiXHF wrote:VOTE: MoI

I agree with Titus on this. I think Socrates and MoI is the scum team, but I'm not quite sure I can get the Socrates push I'd like, and I'm more confident in MoI scum.
So I'm pretty sure we have the scum team right here ...

But let's see if Spyrex or Socrates swoop in for the quickhammer. Frankly after the debacle with pisskop I'd welcome the game being over so post-game dissection can begin.
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Post Post #1746 (isolation #114) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:12 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1745, Titus wrote:So you're claiming Pisskop lied about clearing Kuroi? Why would he?

Which of Spyrex or Socrates is scum if you could only pick one? Why?
Because Pisskop was operating under faulty assumptions - that he would be informed when his BP was used.

I mean you benefit from Kuroi being falsely cleared so you are going to stand on "why would he lie" when that's a false stance since it wasn't a lie. Pisskop simply had bad information and drew bad conclusions from it.

Given you and Kuroi benefit it makes sense you are trying to get me to finger a Townie here in LYLO.
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Post Post #1749 (isolation #115) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:33 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1748, Socrates wrote:VOTE: Magna
Congrats to scum on the win ...

Words to follow regarding the Modding snafu ...
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Post Post #1750 (isolation #116) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:35 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1747, KuroiXHF wrote:So we're scum because we think you're scum?

This makes a ton of sense.
It is possible you are just your normal bad Town Kuroi but Titus is obv-scum. Probably given Socrates's hammer he is her partner.
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Post Post #1755 (isolation #117) » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:58 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

In post 1587, Shadow_step wrote: Now if you want to tell me that there is no scum on this wagon apart from Aris himself, please do tell me that.
In post 1569, Shadow_step wrote:
In post 753, DiamondSentinel wrote:Aristophanes [7]
Pisskop
, Kraska77,
Nachomamma8, Camn
, MagnaoIllusion,
JaeReed
,
Aristophanes
Yes, in fact Arist was the only scum on that wagon. Lol ...
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Post Post #1806 (isolation #118) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:54 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Again congrats to the scum team. Those not named Aristo did a great job of basically staying out of the way as Town slugged itself to death. Which, basically, is the goal of a Mafia team.

My own play was not stellar this game. Aside from twigging to Aristo I let the signs from Spyrex and Socrates fall by the wayside and got tunneled on Uzi (due to the claim) and Camn. After the revelation of the Mod error I didn’t have any more energy to try to revisit. So getting lynched today was probably for the best. Funny that both players I dinged for bad comments to Pisskop Day 5 were scum.

I’m kinda surprised in hindsight that scum chose to kill Dunn when the only Robot left for him to upgrade was Spyrex scum …

--
In post 1756, DiamondSentinel wrote:Ok, so here's the issue that came up.

Originally, when I said that pisskop would know he was shot at, I forgot that MagnaofIllusion had a permanent bulletproof. pisskop was originally supposed to be the only bulletproof that would be aware of being shot.

However, I will just say. Town was already thoroughly fucked by the time that came around.
I don’t care that Town was “fucked” the way you handled (or specifically didn’t handle) your incorrect statement made a tangible effect on the game. And saying “What would you have done differently to pisskop” is a poor response.

Frankly having observed the objections you threw at Shos after his GTA game I expected for you to have a better handle on your game and mechanics than you did.
In post 1804, DiamondSentinel wrote:So, I won't say strictly "never lie as an innocent". However, be a bit smarter with your role.
The number of times lying as a Town player works out to Town’s benefit are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the number of times it hurts Town.

--
In post 1782, camn wrote:<3 You!

not Magna tho.
Sorry … I guess …

--
In post 1789, Socrates wrote:Camn was so super-duper-mega town that it boggles my mind that we were able to get her lynched. And she had a provable ability! And was about to shoot scum! And we had no way to stop her!

And Uzi was provable as well! And he got lynched too!
Mafia 101 – provable role does not equal provable alignment.
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Post Post #1807 (isolation #119) » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:22 am

Post by MagnaofIllusion »

Dead Thread Thoughts –

My reaction to pisskop not using his Doctor ability N1 after a successful scum lynch …

Image

Also camn I fully return your </3.

--
In post 87, JaeReed wrote:But if camn thinks MoI is scum then she should never self on account of him. Because it's the kind of move that a hypothetical scum!MoI would delight in having caused.
This explains in a nutshell why despite all the “Oh self-voting is a Town tell” it absolutely is Anti-Town play.

--
In post 94, pirate mollie wrote:and yeah pple don't seem to be fans about doing readslists anymore. I find it hugely beneficial tho.
Disagree and you can see why with my comments on Jae’s Day 1 readslists. Without detailed explanations of what each tier signifies and why players move between tiers then they are just effective fluff and a good way for scum to hide and pretending to give content. And I have yet to see anyone actually do a readslist with all that accompanying it.

My back and forth with Jae regarding this starting at reflects this.
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