NY 198: Nexus is Now a New Normal Mafia (Game Over)

[Pine]

Checking in. I'll read through the thread in an hour or so. Quick skim of VCs shows an early big wagon on Aeronaut? That definitely deserves a look when I have more than five minutes. In the meantime...

Vote: JarJar

How dare you make light of tragedy. Episode I was a traumatic time for many of us

[Pine]

great, so this game is full of bad players

Holy sweet Christ, this thread is a hot mess. Quoted is practically the only thing that's been said so far that has been informative and worth the time it took to read it. Including my earlier post - I skimmed playerlist, checked votecounts in mod ISO, and then didn't take the level of insane in this playerlist seriously. If I'd read even the first two dozen posts, there's nothing doing with the Aeronaut quickwagon. My mistake.

Unvote
Vote: KTS

I absolutely

despise

this playstyle. I'm sorry, but being a bullying asshole is not a valid way to play a social game. You've got bullshit coming out of your ears, dude, and haven't done -any- valid scumhunting or investigation. No.

[Pine]

@Pine, who do you think is town?

Right now? Fucking no one

No one has done anything remotely worth the label

This is what's wrong with this thread so far - kneejerk certainty, unexplained serious votes, and ironclad rhetoric and categorizations based on nothing of note. Then you have the jackasses browbeating anyone who disagrees with them, supported by sheep

[Pine]

I can't yet

People who play like this look scummy no matter what they do, because I normally associate overconfident reads with the informed minority, i.e. scum. But when you've got half the thread making ironclad reads and bold statements three pages in, that's just stupid play. I don't interpret that well. It's going to take some time, and necessitates thinning the herd

Right now the only partial read I have is of you, rb, because you're the only one actually explaining yourself. I've got a

really

weak Townread on you, but that's really mostly that you're the only one making sense and trying to do real analysis. That's easy to fake when you've been given this kind of fodder though, so meh

[Pine]

Sorry, that was half a post. My vote's on KTS right now because of the blatantly scummy antics described above. Granted, they're displayed by lots of players so far, but it's most pronounced with KTS. Bullying and browbeating are inherently scummy and antisocial, so I'd like to see him gone. It's a pretty weak read too, because I've seen Town do this on numerous occasions as well.

Right now, I'm getting ready for bed and hoping I wake up to find this thread has calmed down and become a civilized place to have a conversation, otherwise I'm seriously considering replacing out of this nest of barbarians

[Pine]

but being a bullying asshole is not a valid way to play a social game.

..........what?
Are u sure uve for the right person here? Rb's play is fine and dandy but kts is a "bullying asshole"? Lol is this rb buddying?

KTS is the referenced bullying asshole. That's where my vote it. Please try to keep up.

[Pine]

but being a bullying asshole is not a valid way to play a social game.

..........what?
Are u sure uve for the right person here? Rb's play is fine and dandy but kts is a "bullying asshole"? Lol is this rb buddying?

KTS is the referenced bullying asshole. That's where my vote it. Please try to keep up.

Misread the quoted post, and apparently put my foot in my mouth.

Yes. There is a difference between their actions and styles.

[Pine]

Meta based on anecdotal observation isn't reliable. The only valid meta analysis is founded on longer-term association with the subject. A couple of games just isn't enough

[Pine]

*facepalm*

No, JarJar. There's a big difference. RB is pushing leads and trying to get people to join him. KTS was bullying and abusing people who disagreed. The former is townish, the latter is scummy

Seriously. Do not confuse argument through repetition with good scumhunting.

This is what I get for waking up? Remind me not to do that

[Pine]

Am I missing something with Pine? I don't get his SR on KTS and that may be a valid reason for suspicion but I can see where he got his town read on rb and he did say it was a very weak one. rb's case for Zulfy seemed a lot stronger than KT's case for TF.

Scumread = browbeating, vote bullying, opportunism, moves to silence opposition. Many have drawn a parallel between rb and KTS, but rb has been pushing his reads and giving good reasons, while KTS has been disparaging and attacking those who had alternative opinions. Town don't make broad absolutists statements about large numbers of people early D1. They don't have enough information to do so. They

might

get a clear enough read on one or two people to make a persistent case, as rb seems to be doing, but the swaggering confidence about a bunch of people that KTS is displaying? Nah. That's either scum or newbie Town who doesn't know what they're doing, and KTS's post count is too high to be given the benefit of the doubt needed for the latter

PE: Regarding Zulfy, I don't necessarily agree with rb, I don't see anything blatantly scummy yet. Nothing particularly Townie either. Most players so far are null reads posting fluff. I'm just saying his process seems Town-motivated

[Pine]

RVS is over. There's only two acceptable people to vote for.

You're condescending tone has no effect on my imposing stature. Bow before me, scum, or I'll simply off your scum buddy first. That way you can feel a bit more terrified.

no shut up start playing typical good rb way or you're scum.

srry i have high expectations for you from what i've heard of your 'god-tier' play. prove it.

Funny since I saw no misrep. But thanks for proving you're a crappy player. No respectable player plays the misrep card anymore.

more twoface votes then we can get rb tomorrow.

or rb today. idk. whichever you guys want.

zulfy's game has been as baseless as he accuses yours of being and he's determined to throw as much shade as possible early game + his RVS feels fake as fuck

no zulfy is firmly town. there's no way i'm lynching him until at least late game.

stop that post was bad stop sotp stotp soop stop sotp

rvs wagons mean nothing and no amount of vca can change that.

oh oops i forgot u knew kraska and now i sound like a NOMRAL PERSON instead of QuirKRY !!

srry for confusing ur infallible banter or yes.

@gamma, my logic is correct. he's scum, but i don't mind pling you lmao.

These are the posts by KTS I find scummy, btw. As I've said, scumreads without reason, usage of threats, browbeating opponents, and silencing/discrediting opposition are all scummy actions. There's a good bit of ad hom in his ISO too

[Pine]

Pine pls respond to any of the points JJD has made on you

I did

[Pine]

why

Opportunism would be the scumtell associated with my wagon. It's easy to jump on in the middle of an active wagon, because then you can't really be blamed for a mislynch. There's almost always a lot more scrutiny on the last few votes. Unfortunately, this also makes it a lot harder to identify which of those early/middle votes are the scum, because sheepy Town does the same thing. This kind of VCA is a lot more effective in late game, when half or more of the game has flipped. You can say "Huh, everyone on that terrible wagon has flipped Town, except this one guy. Probably scum."

[Pine]

Also everyone needs to give me their read on Transcend asap - he shitposts and fucks around too much to be easily readable. Vig shot here if he doesn't change.

Shitposting and fucking around IS a read. It's useless behavior that doesn't mean anything, especially D1.

I honestly have no idea why all you new players are obsessed with having strong reads on practically everyone right away. Give it time, let your impressions grow gradually. Otherwise, you run a severe risk of accidentally confirmation-biasing yourself when they start to actually show behavior that can actually be analyzed

[Pine]

Pine is a little better, but having a good size wagon is good for town so I'll stay.

I was wrong about the comparison of KTS to the recent town game, which was Bebop btw. I was matching based on memory of post structure, which was very reactive, short stream without much structure, and occasionally rude. When I went back to compare content, there is a lot more bulk in this game than in the other one. The substance of the match between games is NAI playstyle, so not an explicit TR any more. I'm going to have to read it again to see what's chaff and what's wheat. Then I can see if the wheat is rotten or good.

Pedit: Having a wagon is good for exactly that reason, couldn't have put it better if I'd tried.

You know what, I've decided not to let this go. This post looks like cognitive dissonance; saying one thing but keeping a vote that doesn't match it is one of the most reliable scumtells

Unvote
Vote: Davesaz

I'd like to see some pressure here

[Pine]

Besides, why are you contesting my Transcend comments anyway?

For what reason are you making excuses for Transcend?

I'm not. On either count. I have a thoroughly null read on Transcend. He's shitposting, which I don't feel is alignment-indicative.

[Pine]

Everyone share their read on Kraska pls - just say scum or town.

I say scum.

It's not a dichotomy. It's a spectrum.

[Pine]

I don't have a gun to my head. It's early D1, and it doesn't make sense to treat it like LYLO

You're seriously squandering the townpoints you earned. This is the kind of browbeating behavior I didn't tolerate from KTS. My reads are my own, influenced by my own reasoning, and I'll be damned if I let you or anyone else bully me into making decisions I'm not ready to make.

Not all of Transcend's posts are shitposts, but most of them are. Some of the stuff he's done is vaguely scummy, others are vaguely Town. Nothing is distinct yet.

Why is this new generation of mafiascum players so obsessed with leaping to conclusions? It's so...uncivilized

[Pine]

Dude, I do not intend to entertain every single inquisition. You want to push your scumread? Make a case, don't get up my ass about me marginally disagreeing with you.

Again, this is the problem with the way this site has apparently been going the last couple of years. It's on you to make your case, not on us to fall in line and automatically agree with it.

I don't go slow and steady, I'm looking for solid leads, and few have cropped up because you and a few other people are monopolizing the game. Gauran-fucking-teed, there are scum using the cover of your ADHD need to spout off three posts to other peoples' one to just lurk along doing nothing.

See the button in the bottom right corner labeled "Activity Overview"? It's just below the page numbers, just above subforum navigation. Pay attention to it. Fully a quarter of the game has fewer than ten posts. I'd be willing to bet hard currency that there's at least one scum within {Shadow_step, Zachstralkita, davesaz, Aeronaut}, maybe two. All because you and a few others can't shut your yap and read what others are doing.

Yes, I'm trying to pressure a lurking opportunist. No, I don't particularly agree with your read, but I also don't particularly disagree with it

Simmer down

Pre-edit: I don't think anything of you, Transcend. I mean, Christ, even you lampshaded your own inability to play it cool, and had a little spazzy meltdown. Start playing the game like a grown-up, and I'll develop an opinion of you

[Pine]

i am resisting the urge to not hyper post i'm resisting it so hard but i just might explode here in a bit

sjflkds
fs
d
f
f
f


i can't do it

i'm a player that must post all the time

it was fun trying an experiment

i'll read KTS again because 1. i respect you and i think you're town and 2. I've actually never played with a scum!KTS only specced a scum!KTS but i felt town vibes off him this game

Well, Transcend, I was going to let it go, but since you asked, let's start here. You set out to have a more relaxed and conservative game, then exploded. Then there's your allergy to capitalization, grammar, and punctuation. In the grown-up world, people who don't at least try to adhere to accepted standards are regarded as unsophisticated at the very best, but usually just childish and unprofessional. Then there's your absurd overconfident declaration about people being hard town reads and scumfucks...half a dozen pages in. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Also, adults don't overuse 'lol' like you do. I count 7 childish uses of 'lol' in 39 posts.

Interestingly, ISOing you for the purposes of this rebuke caused me to notice something - your vote hopping. Seven votes in 39 posts is a lot. It's an old scumtell, not particularly useful anymore back when I was playing on this site regularly, because it made its way into site meta and scum stopped doing it. You, on the other hand, are newish, aren't familiar with old school site meta, and it was always a tell for newbie scum.

RB, consider my objection to your Transcend vote rescinded. I could support a wagon on him at some point, assuming he doesn't Town up in a big way.

[Pine]

I feel this GIF is appropriate to my mood.

[Pine]

Ego post from your backup mod

Oh hey Rach. Long time.

Awesome. I wake up to more shitposting.

I'd rather be an "insufferable cunt" who's playing the game with logic and discernable methodology than being an insufferable cunt without them, so critics can bite me.

Okay, it's time for the game to actually start. There's enough info to get the ball rolling now.

Townpile (all of these are weak reads, no particular order): Transcend, Gamma, JarJar, maybe RB, maybe Zach

Scumpile: Dave, KTS, maybe TwoFace

I'll put together a cogent case on Dave when I get home. Phoneposting makes quoting difficult

[Pine]

Make your case on Kraska. All I'm seeing so far is shitposting

Seriously, just calling someone scum isn't enough. Tell me why

[Pine]

Note that I'm posting a fuckton, but if you read my ISO you'll see that I pressured Pine about why he wasn't doing that.

And if you read my ISO, you'll see that I commented on the fact that you pressured him about why he wasn't doing something that you earlier said he was doing

You can also note that I never said Pine WAS saying of those things

GET THE FUCK OUT!!!

That's EXACTLY what you were doing with this post

Spoiler:

There's not really anything wrong with TF or Pine's early game play.

They lack conclusions and conviction, but anyone who thinks that's the only things that benefit town in the early game is simply wrong. A good early game often comprises mostly of questioning and simply interacting and getting interactions out of people.

People are being lambasted with accusations of being shit - that needs to stop from everyone. If something is scummy, fine. Don't just blanket someone as shit because it's not alignment related.

but I expected him to start and when he didn't - I asked him why and pressured him.

Why did you expect him to start? Is there some reason you thought he was town? If not then why defend him?


VOTE: RB Sorry Trans, I think ur wrong here

This is goodposting. Finally, someone who actually uses deduction

I can see your case on RB

[Pine]

And no hes not
Every page is him hounding people with his reads so much so that the game now revolves around discussing his reads and little more

yep

and yep...annoying

this game is full of poop all over the floor, it's hard to find the meat

An apt metaphor

[Pine]

gonna be fucking hilarious when kraska flips scum but ppl cant see it because shes so nice to everyone

makes me wanna vomit

p-edit: except barely anyone else is making pushes off their own reads

i guess playing with absurdly long 14day deadline all the time has made ppl slower than a fucking turtle

no, I'm trying to help you see that it is harder to focus on the meat when you're spouting off on 20 posts a page cluttering everything and saying jack-shit

thats some brutal fucking discrediting there

I guess you arent actually reading if you think im saying 'jack shit'

Quantity over quality pretty much sums your entire iso.

Quantity is a quality in and of itself :^)

This is just so false that I'm having a hard time articulating the major disconnect. Fine, wherever else you were playing has one day deadlines. Super. That isn't how it works here. There are also sites that have deadlines measured in minutes. Should we just make it a guessing game like they do there? No.

If you want to play with short deadlines and sift through bullshit, choose another site. This site is designed for longer days and more deliberation. Adapt or fuck off. You don't walk into someone else's house and demand they redecorate to suit your tastes. Rude.

[Pine]

I'm done engaging with him, sorry for adding to distraction, I had to say my piece. Back to the game.

Agreed. I've decided to mostly ignore them from here out. If they have something worthwhile I'll respond to it, but I am disinclined to waste a lot more of my time

[Pine]

Yeah, KTS definitely needs to go. I mean, blatant buddying and reads that are super convenient, writing off everyone who suspects him

Yeah. If KTS and RB are twins, RB is playing the probtown version and KTS the probscum

[Pine]

Pine:

Why are you town reading Gamma?

Hard to put my finger on. It's mostly a broad impression of larger motives and patterns.

[Pine]

VOTE: kraska I'm done honestly
Someone just hammer bc he's not going to shutup until I'm lynched
I have nth worth claiming so whatever

This is blatantly anti-wincon. Self-voting is never acceptable, unless caught scum.

Kraska, if you are Town, replace the fuck out. Right now. In your next post.

[Pine]

Never mind, that's hammer. What in the actual fuck, dude. That kind of deserves a modkill.

[Pine]

^Someone please vig this

[Pine]

I'm not seeing that hammer as a problem. I almost hammered myself.

I can see your case on shadow, RB. He's not reacting well to it, either.

Vote Shadow

[Pine]

RB, please stop being a spazzy fuck. You've jizzed out almost two pages of hard-to-read nonsense in barely more than an hour. Christ, chill.

Preedit: Shadow, there's lots of ways to react to someone scumreading you. You're reacting in a scummy manner.

[Pine]

RB, please stop being a spazzy fuck. You've jizzed out almost two pages of hard-to-read nonsense in barely more than an hour. Christ, chill.

Preedit: Shadow, there's lots of ways to react to someone scumreading you. You're reacting in a scummy manner.

i will jizz out 500000 pages more until we lynch shadow

Stop it. You've made your case, it's a good one. Other people don't want to have to sift through a whole bunch of pages of you masturbating to your ego, which depresses activity by other players. Knock it off.

Shadow, your reaction is scummy because you're obsessing over one person accusing you, and arguing over what was initially kind of a bullshit case. That kind of self-concern and disinterest in moving on is scummy. It demonstrates that you don't really care about lynching scum, only about not getting lynched yourself; a scum perspective.

[Pine]

I expect you to do Towny things, not continue to obsess over other peoples' suspicions of you. You're continuing to do it. You want to look not scummy? Do something productive, like advocate your own reads and try to get them lynched. Self-defense isn't scummy, obsessive self-defense is.

[Pine]

^This guy is Town

I was prepared to vote kraska too, drealmerz. I didn't realize he put himself to L-1, I thought he was giving up in the middle of a wagon, which made me want to give him a chance to replace out, because I've seen newbie Town give up when they get a moderate amount of pressure. If I'd realized he was basically done for, that was absolutely a scum self-vote.

Your initial reaction to Shadow is probably correct. Look at his play since day start, it's quite scummy.

[Pine]

Also how is Pine's non-hammer bad? He scumread kts, myself and also transcend who were all on Kraska's wagon. It makes sense he'd be fishy about the wagon.

The scumreads you've stated so far on day2 drealmerz: KTS, rb, Pine

Do not have time or energy to respond to everything in this thread, but need to correct this before we go into night. Of those three, I scumread (present tense) KTS, townread (past tense) Transcend, and jury was/is out on RB.

Getting frustrated with the rapidity and shittiness of of this game.

[Pine]

I was pointing out drealmerz reads, not urs Pine.

The shittiness? we're stomping the scum.

I was replying to this -

Also how is Pine's non-hammer bad? He scumread kts, myself and also transcend who were all on Kraska's wagon. It makes sense he'd be fishy about the wagon.

As for stomping the scum, bully for you. I do not share your confidence. Rocketing through each day and masturbating to your first kneejerk reads while ignoring everything else lets lurker scum off easy.

[Pine]

why don't you take your time and explain how you weren't "with it" yesterday, Pine?

Wtf are you talking about? I genuinely don't understand your question

[Pine]

Okay, I am officially off my game in this thread. RB, there is clearly a method to your madness, even if it's fucking insane.

I'm going back to this.

Vote davesaz

Active lurking mofo, and some cogdis earlier.

[Pine]

I guarantee ya Uzi said the words "me" and "don't see" and "suspicion"
But he was wrong. And now lynchbait drealmerz is conftown too.
Scum got its shit fucked and I'm sorry.
Role blocker.

Wait, is this a claim? Why not just say it plainly?

Other people are treating this as a claim of blocking LUV for a no kill, but it's beyond me why you don't just say so plainly if that is the case. Please confirm this and we'll lynch LUV.

[Pine]

VOTE: Uzi
Blocked u haha

Pine - this is a claim

Fair enough. It's beyond me why you people don't use plain English when it's actually important. A roleblock leading to a no kill is worth shutting down the thread to get a lynch. It's possible that it's a coincidence, and a Doc or BP kicked in, but you don't hesitate in this situation.

Intent to vote LUV, but I'd like to give everyone a chance to post, in case there's other results that need to be announced.

PEdit: No, a better question is why WOULD he lie as scum? From scum's perspective, they're down two members, failed a kill, and now have an IC in play. This is not the time to make a gambit that could get yet another member killed. Assuming a 4-player scumteam, that means their one remaining member's odds of endgame are extremely remote. Assuming a 3-player scumteam, a bogus result like that is endgame for scum. Nah, if the claim is legit and not a gambit or something, it's a Town action.

[Pine]

Scum PRs. They can kill and use their power in some setups

[Pine]

Also less common stuff like transporters. Maybe a neighborizer? The roles exist, but Occam's Razor says scum PR performing a kill and a power

[Pine]

There are probably obscure roles that fit the qualifications, but by far the most likely is scum PR. Name and shame, and we'll lynch them.

[Pine]

So this is impossible to be town right?

Not impossible, but it is unlikely. With two scum down, no death last night, and an IC revealed, we can more than afford to gamble on a nearly sure thing.

[Pine]

^Optimal strategy

[Pine]

You do know rb has claimed a guilty on someone right?

Ah I see now, I misread. So if I'm understanding correctly, Drealm, KTS, rb, and Zulfy are confirmed town. Which leaves of us a pool of about 5 players then once rb tells us who he tracked.

KTS isn't confTown, where do you get that? I still think he might be scum. Look at his D1 play compared to D2. You're also treating yourself as confTown, which I also don't buy. It may have been coincidence, but I didn't like your reaction to the daystart flashwagon either.

The rest I agree with.

[Pine]

Well depends what the role is but kts is probably town given he was targeted by mafia somehow.

That's...actually a good point. Hmm.

[Pine]

Doctor could easily explain it. Hush, his result is a lot more probable than yours.

Besides, his result doesn't clear Uzi, it just condemns someone else.

RB, name and shame.

[Pine]

Yeah, that thought has occurred to me, but the degree of insane it would take for this level of bussing is just plain outlandish. It's not worth pursuing.

[Pine]

No, not really. He would have had to hardcore bus two teammates, including their encryptor. Just that strains credulity. Then he'd have to expose himself with a falsifiable claim. If whoever he's talking about doesn't flip with a power that can target two people, he's fucked. It's just not plausible. Possible, sure, but he'd have to be clinically insane to do it.

[Pine]

So the Transcend kill is confirmed to be by vig/SK btw

What? No. If game isn't over after RB's result is lynched, I think this might warrant Gamma going next. This sounds like scum trying to reframe the entire parameters of Town's actions.

[Pine]

If RB is an RC alt it's completely plausible

RC?

[Pine]

So the Transcend kill is confirmed to be by vig/SK btw

Huh?

Scum killed KTS or rb N1. Also, rb said to vig Transcend.

There is zero evidence to base that assertion on. Show your work.

[Pine]

Just cause rb said somebody vig him doesn't mean he was a VOTE: ig shot.

Exactly.

[Pine]

3/NV/4 are money-grabs until you install mods on it. Then it becomes a poor-man's GTA.

I liked Fallout 3. 4 felt like they were trying to replicate the success of Skyrim with half the effort. Skyrim Special Edition is the real cash-in though

[Pine]

Waiting on RB, let's talk Bethesda games!

I downloaded Skyrim SE when it came out (I got it free because I have all the DLC for the original) but I don't play it. It's still kind of buggy on my laptop, and there are some mods that haven't been recreated that I'm too attached to.

[Pine]

Not buying the claim. Hell, even if it's factual, you don't pass up what appears to be a guilty from nigh-confirmed Town in this situation.

Vote Dave

At least I don't have to juggle this game on Thanksgiving.

[Pine]

Yeah, as much as I despise some of his playstyle choices, RB deserves a Scummy nomination for this. He carried the game. All of Town did well though, despite butting heads.

[Pine]

How the hell did this setup get approved? That's crazy Townsided. It didn't end up mattering, as only one was successful, but Town was absolutely flush with investigative roles. Scum deserved a Ninja or Godfather or something to limit the power of all the investigation.

[Pine]

Link to your Dead PT?

PEdit: I was assuming there would be. Three investigative roles and an IC, on top of a Doctor and partial RB, you deserved a bit more meat on your team. Daytalk is fine, but it meant that an investigator of your own was all you had with agency.

PEdit2: Deputy wouldn't have taken over for Neapolitan?

[Pine]

Deputy was a VT. Mod says that it was intended to throw off Town, there was no Cop. Couldn't replace Neapolitan. You're also not considering the Mafia Stalker, which is actually a fairly powerful scum role.

The problem here was that with a large number of investigative roles (Neapolitan, 3-shot investigative JOAT*, and Macho Innocent Child, which is essentially a self-investigator) mixed with other Town powers. Neapolitan, a more traditional JOAT, and a standard Doctor would have been plenty. The extra roles were overkill, especially when balanced against a single scum PR and a scumteam sized for a Mini.

I would consider Neapolitan, standard JOAT, Doctor, 6x VT vs 2 Goon, Encryptor, Stalker to be balanced.

*3-shot anything is practically a full role, so long as those powers are complimentary. Traditional JOATs have three different powers, like 1-shot Cop, 1-shot Doc, 1-shot roleblock.

As I've said before, all this setup grouching was irrelevant. The only real PR that made any difference was rb's JOAT, and one PR solving a game is simply a phenomenon, not something that can be predicted.

[Pine]

This wouldn't be broken by massclaim. The people saying so don't seem to fully understand the properties and ramifications of massclaim.