Open 656- Tit For Tat - Endgame


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Post Post #1180 (isolation #0) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:23 am

Post by ironstove »

Hi guys, I'll catch up in the next 48 hours and share my thoughts.
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Post Post #1185 (isolation #1) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:36 pm

Post by ironstove »

Hey host, can you please update the OP with the dead/alive list? I got hella confused I didn't realize we're in mylo (?)

Still reading the game.
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Post Post #1187 (isolation #2) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:54 pm

Post by ironstove »

Cursory look we have 6 players, and 1 vigi.

Meta question - If the vigi shoots but is targeted for the NK does the vigi shot get negated?

Harkonnen97
FancyPants,
eagerSnake,
Ironstove/
Fire Assassin,

Infinity324,
farside22
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Post Post #1188 (isolation #3) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:02 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 282, FancyPants wrote:Firstly I think we should hustle towards a lynch, 5 days with a weekend in between is really not a lot of time.

Now for a quick catch up, going over my thoughts on everybody in no particular order.

I think the
Alban
is probably town -
In post 125, alban wrote: 4. Most importantly, in a game where you need 7 to lynch me, 5 of you are currently voting against me. What's the likelihood that half of the players have formed an opinion against a player so quickly? What is the voted player likely to be in the case? Will the consensus happen so quickly if I were mafia?
.
Some good paranoia in this line, I don't necessarily agree with the logic but I can see the town thought process.

Don't like this post by
Persephone
, seem more interested in not looking like scum rather than lynching scum.

I haven't really liked
Textcat
worrying over people's town reads ( and ), it feels scummy and counter productive. Nothing wrong with town-reading, but I feel scum want the potential pool of suspects to remain as large as possible.
However this post:
In post 237, texcat wrote:
In post 216, Harkonnen97 wrote:who else beside yuria is ur scumbuddy texie ?
:shifty: And when did you quit beating your wife?

Are you trying to tie me to Yuria? Why?
Is interesting, I think fearing being tied to someone is a very townie response, townies don't know who is scum and therefore don't want to be tied to anyone. In fact there is an advantage for scum cat to be tied to town Yuria.
Therefore I come to the conclusion that textcat and yuria are scum together, or neither are scum (more likely at this stage).

Hark
is probably town but that whole scum claiming business is pretty annoying and anti-town. Do you get Nk'ed early in games often?

Yuria
seems to be game-solving for me, but I can see her potentially fooling me.

Gamma
is pretty null, struggling to get a read, why do you town read textcat gamma?

NJAC
is a town lean but has collectively said very little.

I''m town reading both
Eager
and
Fire Assasin
for similar reasons (that basically boils down to a IDGAF attitude).

That leaves the lurkers of Kop, Sgz and Persephone.
I can definitely see two scum in those three.

I kinda like Persephone because of . I can live with Kop as well.

For now.
UNVOTE:

VOTE: Persephone
Look at her ISO, I could definitely see her being newb-scum who is unable to play due to not knowing how to manufacture reads.
Interesting.
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Post Post #1189 (isolation #4) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:07 pm

Post by ironstove »

Since we're in a 2:4 setup, with last 2 mafia as rolecop + jailer, can we have a mass claim of the PRs? No need to specify which PR you are, but I think popcorn claiming here is the best play. I'm still finishing up the read, but I'm beginning to formulate ideas on who I think is mafia, and I would suggest we popcorn claim to see what the net catches if all of you are fine with this.
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Post Post #1190 (isolation #5) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:09 pm

Post by ironstove »

Yea, I actually have a suggestion on two routes we can take which I think is optimal play for town, however I'd like everyone's feedback on the popcorn claim.
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Post Post #1191 (isolation #6) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:10 pm

Post by ironstove »

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... im#Popcorn

BTW for those that aren't familiar with what I'm talking about.
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Post Post #1192 (isolation #7) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:11 pm

Post by ironstove »

Popcorn
In this claim method, the players choose by consensus one of the scummier players to claim first. As each player claims, they declare the next person to claim. The effectiveness of this approach is entirely dependent on how "close" the players are to finding the scum.
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Post Post #1194 (isolation #8) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:25 pm

Post by ironstove »

Why do you vote nay?
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Post Post #1195 (isolation #9) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:27 pm

Post by ironstove »

You can't ask everyone to thoroughly explain their detailed strategy on why they should and should not mass claim so you can have an intricate understanding of how to counter their strategies yet not share your reasons for opposition to it.... That's just not fair, even if your reasons are complete lies and bullshit, at least entertain me with something...
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Post Post #1196 (isolation #10) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:27 pm

Post by ironstove »

I'll show you mine if you show me yours. Deal?
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Post Post #1197 (isolation #11) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:42 pm

Post by ironstove »

Interestingly, I think that hark/ted's slot this game is town however in the last game I had hark in newbie 1730, he replaced in as scum, and he was almost immediately caught and failed to town clear himself. He basically threw a giant bitch fit and replaced himself out within a few days in the game. Go ahead and read it, it's pretty hilarious.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705

Also, I'll admit that it being my first game on MS, I raged pretty hard and threw the game in LYLO by intentionally throwing my vote so scum could blitz. Obv I don't plan to make the same mistakes again, but you never know, there ain't no cure for stupid.
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Post Post #1198 (isolation #12) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:44 pm

Post by ironstove »

Like, I keep mixing up the FA and hark slots, but FA is town, he was a god awful town... No joke... LOL. BUT he's town. He was in another game with me as well, he's just not a very good player in general, neither is hark. I've never been very impressed with either one's play and they should honestly quit the site if they've been playing here this long and haven't been able to improve. In hark's defense I don't think english is his native language, which explains why he derps so hard when it comes to communicating effectively with other players in the game.
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Post Post #1199 (isolation #13) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by ironstove »

Anyway, I think the popcorn claim is legit because:

1. It forces scum to react and engage in the game in some way, it brings everyone into the spotlight to present an answer, and the first people to popcorn don't necessarily know if they're going to be countered by the people following up.

2. Potentially provides a more clear picture based on the responses received for town to navigate and determine who is/is not a PR.

3. At this point, because we are in MYLO, and we know the PR is vigi + backup role cop, and we also know that retarded town basically worked together with mafia on page 46 to rolefish the vigi, so there is very little benefit to keeping the PRs hidden at this point, I have a inkling of a feeling that mafia already know who vigi is and will probably jail him the rest of the game less we manage to lynch the jailer.
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Post Post #1200 (isolation #14) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:48 pm

Post by ironstove »

Clarifying #2, it assumes there is a CC to the claims for town PRs, then we have a place to start in building further associations and such. And also mafia don't have the ability to plan for this action because of no day-chat so we are really putting the squeeze on them and I think shitcans playing town (cough FA) have basically allowed the mafia to coast up till now
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Post Post #1201 (isolation #15) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:49 pm

Post by ironstove »

Also, I think people should be unvoting if they're town. It's literally autism to park your vote on someone in mylo, Sheer FUCKING autism.
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Post Post #1203 (isolation #16) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:52 pm

Post by ironstove »

Alright, walk me through your mentality in parking your vote on someone you aren't sure is mafia in mylo?
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Post Post #1204 (isolation #17) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:54 pm

Post by ironstove »

After you do that, please share your thoughts on popcorn claiming.
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Post Post #1205 (isolation #18) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:59 pm

Post by ironstove »

And he's gone.
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Post Post #1208 (isolation #19) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:09 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1206, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1203, ironstove wrote:Alright, walk me through your mentality in parking your vote on someone you aren't sure is mafia in mylo?
Let's do some math.

There are nine players alive.

There are four mafia.

Farside has two votes.

Unless both Infinity and I are scum, scum can quicklynch for the win.

They haven't done that yet.

Ergo, either both Infinity and I are scum, or... Farside is scum.

Need a calculator?
There are 6 players alive and there are 2 mafia left. LOL. What the fuck?
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Post Post #1209 (isolation #20) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:10 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1208, ironstove wrote:
In post 1206, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1203, ironstove wrote:Alright, walk me through your mentality in parking your vote on someone you aren't sure is mafia in mylo?
Let's do some math.

There are nine players alive.

There are four mafia.

Farside has two votes.

Unless both Infinity and I are scum, scum can quicklynch for the win.

They haven't done that yet.

Ergo, either both Infinity and I are scum, or... Farside is scum.

Need a calculator?
There are 6 players alive and there are 2 mafia left. LOL. What the fuck?
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Post Post #1210 (isolation #21) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:10 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1201, ironstove wrote:Also, I think people should be unvoting if they're town. It's literally autism to park your vote on someone in mylo, Sheer FUCKING autism.
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Post Post #1211 (isolation #22) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:15 pm

Post by ironstove »

Alright, seriously though, stop derailing can we please have a discussion about the popcorn mass claim? I think it's the highest EV play for town FMPOV and I don't see a reason why we shouldn't be doing it, and if those of you think we shouldn't be doing it and are town then please bring fourth your concerns so that we can have a discussion.
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Post Post #1212 (isolation #23) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 2:18 pm

Post by ironstove »

Yea, I can now totally understand why hark and FA wanted to replace out of this game LMAO.
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Post Post #1217 (isolation #24) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:47 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1217, eagerSnake wrote:My mind's telling me no

But my body (gut) is telling me to vote FancyPants
Let's discuss the mass claim first before we move forward with voting. I would love a popcorn claim, it's mylo, what advantage is there to hiding PRs at this point in the game?
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Post Post #1219 (isolation #25) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:08 pm

Post by ironstove »

I don't believe scum can use both actions.

The last mafia can't perform a PR and NK simultaneously.
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Post Post #1220 (isolation #26) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:09 pm

Post by ironstove »

Mafia powerroles cannot kill AND use their action in the same night.
Now, are you convinced we should mass claim?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tit_for_Tat
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Post Post #1221 (isolation #27) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:10 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1213, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1210, ironstove wrote:
In post 1201, ironstove wrote:Also, I think people should be unvoting if they're town. It's literally autism to park your vote on someone in mylo, Sheer FUCKING autism.
Reported to the site mods since you want to continue breaking site rules.
Which rule did I break? oh, and please clarify what you mean by there being 9 players in the game. Looks like you're not even paying attention yet you're trying to guide the town on what actions to take?
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Post Post #1222 (isolation #28) » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:11 pm

Post by ironstove »

I got my top scum read on who I'd like to lynch today, but I really want to convince you all that mass claiming beforehand is the right move, I'm already prepared for expected responses from each player, so if you believe I'm town, I'm pretty sure this is the optimal play here.
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Post Post #1226 (isolation #29) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:44 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1224, FancyPants wrote:I'd be willing to popcorn claim. What would the order be?

I'd like:
Ironstove
Farside
Twisted
Infinity
Myself
Eager (If still necessary)
I was thinking more along the lines of FancyPants (you) first, after reading through the thread, and then you pick the next person to claim and that person picks the next and so on.
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Post Post #1227 (isolation #30) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 1:45 am

Post by ironstove »

However, if you're agreeing to this that I claim first, I'm absolutely fine with that. I claim VT.

FancyPants, it's your turn.
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Post Post #1230 (isolation #31) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:45 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1229, FancyPants wrote:I guess Farside and Twisted next, but at this stage the order really doesn't matter.
Technically, you pick 1 person, and that person picks the next, it's pretty easy to mafia to manipulate their answers if they know exactly what order the claims are coming in. So you pick farside?
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Post Post #1231 (isolation #32) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:50 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1223, Plotinus wrote:
Official Vote Count 3.02
Image

LynchingWith 6 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

:!:
Fire Assassin
(L-3): farside22
:!:
farside22
(L-2): Infinity324, TwiszTed

Not Voting
(3): FancyPants, eagerSnake, ironstove


Mod notes: Hi, I'm the backup mod! TwiszTed is the new Harkonnen97! Ironstove is the new Fire Assassin!

If by autism you meant something other than "awesome and delightfully Plotinus-like", apologise to your fellow players and do better next time.

I'll see about getting editing powers for this thread so I can update the OP.

Deadline: (expired on 2016-11-23 14:00:00)
Based on this votecount, we can determine one of three things:

1. Both players on the farside wagon are town and mafia have not yet arrived to blitz for the win.
2. Farside is mafia and at least 1/2 people on the farside wagon is town.
3. Farside is town, and potentially both scum or 1/2 scum are on the wagon, so they can't hammer.
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Post Post #1232 (isolation #33) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:54 am

Post by ironstove »

I'll wait for the popcorn claims to finish before I give my 2 cents on the game and provide my full reads list to begin discussion on who should be the lynch today.
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Post Post #1234 (isolation #34) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:33 am

Post by ironstove »

Oh, why do you think that?
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Post Post #1238 (isolation #35) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:58 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1235, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1234, ironstove wrote:Oh, why do you think that?
Don't advocate for mass claim when you don't know wtf you're doing.

*pulls out hair and walls away*
I know exactly what I'm doing.

So you don't think scum would claim the remaining PR of vigi or counter claim the backup cop because they don't want to be put in a 1v1 situation?
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Post Post #1239 (isolation #36) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:59 am

Post by ironstove »

Hey twisted btw who are your scum reads this game so far? You as well infinity, since you're here too.
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Post Post #1240 (isolation #37) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:59 am

Post by ironstove »

Like just tell me who you want to lynch today and who you're willing to lynch if that lynch isn't happening.
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Post Post #1244 (isolation #38) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:15 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1241, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1238, ironstove wrote:
In post 1235, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1234, ironstove wrote:Oh, why do you think that?
Don't advocate for mass claim when you don't know wtf you're doing.

*pulls out hair and walls away*
I know exactly what I'm doing.

So you don't think scum would claim the remaining PR of vigi or counter claim the backup cop because they don't want to be put in a 1v1 situation?
No. You don't.

Vig has been PoE'd to eager.

There is zero incentive for scum to claim anything but VT.
It's amusing that you try to throw shade at my popcorn claim idea when you have made no contribution to this game so far :roll:
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Post Post #1248 (isolation #39) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:24 am

Post by ironstove »

You chose to replace into this game and doing so implied you had made the commitment to actually play it.
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Post Post #1249 (isolation #40) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:24 am

Post by ironstove »

So I presume you both aren't cc'ing fancypants so that means you're both claiming VT, and all that's left is farside. I'll wait on farside to return.
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Post Post #1251 (isolation #41) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:42 am

Post by ironstove »

So farside is scum from your pov, who is the other scum? Me or infinity?
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Post Post #1253 (isolation #42) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:30 pm

Post by ironstove »

Farside who do you think we should Lynch first? Do you have a pr read on either of those two players?
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Post Post #1254 (isolation #43) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:30 pm

Post by ironstove »

I'm sorry, I meant jailer read.
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Post Post #1255 (isolation #44) » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:31 pm

Post by ironstove »

I agree with what you've said btw
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Post Post #1257 (isolation #45) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:42 am

Post by ironstove »

Are you scum reading me because I am playing so God damn towny it's suspicious or is there something specific to fa's slot that's making you carry that over to me?

I mean it's not really important because fmpov I know who scum are and you're confirmed town so Im just curious
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Post Post #1262 (isolation #46) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:03 pm

Post by ironstove »

I actually agree that of the 3 of you, infinity is the most scummy looking through ISOs, the hard part for me to differentiate is you and twisted....

I actually town read hark's slot when I went through this game, both you and hark, and I thought prior to fancypant's claim that it was {infinity, fancy} however him being uncc'd basically confirms that my suspicion was wrong and so I think it boils down to me determining between you and twistedted... TwistedTed subbing in has been extremely scummy to the point that I feel like this is a no-brainer, but something just doesn't feel right, like this is too easy LOL.
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #47) » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:02 pm

Post by ironstove »

Twisted you think infinity is scum?
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Post Post #1275 (isolation #48) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:01 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1271, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1264, ironstove wrote:Twisted you think infinity is scum?
If I did, I wouldn't be on a wagon with him.
So by poe you think I'm scum
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Post Post #1276 (isolation #49) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:03 am

Post by ironstove »

Farside I'm on board with you I think the scum team is twisted and infinity, I'm pretty sure twisted is scum at this point and I have a hard time believing infinity is more town than you.
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Post Post #1279 (isolation #50) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:19 am

Post by ironstove »

Infinity, is twisted or me scum from your pov? Who is your scum read?
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Post Post #1281 (isolation #51) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:27 am

Post by ironstove »

OK if you had to pick one who is it?
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Post Post #1282 (isolation #52) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:28 am

Post by ironstove »

Are you not sure because you're town reading us both or scum reading us both? Give me a little more detail.
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Post Post #1292 (isolation #53) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:50 pm

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I'm pretty sure ted is one of the scum.
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Post Post #1293 (isolation #54) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:51 pm

Post by ironstove »

I mean it's POE really LOL, I just need one of the three in {inf, farside, ted} to towntell hard enough that I can narrow down the pool fmpov but it isn't happening.
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Post Post #1294 (isolation #55) » Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:52 pm

Post by ironstove »

Right now I'm only getting a slight scum read from ted, but IDK if ted is actually town then that means farside/inf are maf because I'm a town slot.

You should examine FA's posts and I can say that his frustration at town at the time when he chose to replace out was pretty genuine because yea... I'm a town slot .
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Post Post #1323 (isolation #56) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:26 pm

Post by ironstove »

This is so confusing, either infinity/twisted are scum together or farside is scum and twisted/infinity are bussing farside.

I'm going to reread hark.
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Post Post #1324 (isolation #57) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:54 pm

Post by ironstove »

Anyway, I am still pretty confident that infinity is 1/2 scum, I can't decide between farside and twistedted, unfortunately. Gamma's ISO is extremely scummy, I'm more of a person that focuses on tone and word choice, so I can quote a few posts that read very poorly in my head just so you guys can follow my train of thought, but like I said most people just don't get the way I scum hunt.

Spoiler:
In post 22, Gamma Emerald wrote:He had 1 post.
That's not enough to form a solid townread dude.
His choice here to use a line break indicates to me that this was a thought out post, a bit of a slip actually. Most people would have written this in one line, and examining his past games, he's not one to normally exercise a line break of this nature, so it was an odd thing that I noticed and decided to compare.
In post 113, Gamma Emerald wrote:Eager want to help me push this obvious mafian?
This is a break from his usual talk, town!gamma usually doesn't try to take on a jokey tone like this, and it seems like this is his way of trying to get town players to join on his wagon while still granting him the opportunity to fall back in the situation that he's fos'd for trying to lynch a town (i.e. if said town player claims a PR).
In post 172, Gamma Emerald wrote:LOL WTF is this. Voices are absolutely NAI bullshit and you should feel bad for thinking it's a real tell.
This was said in regards to eager making a comment that gamma's posts sound scummy if read in lord sith's voice (lol). I think his reaction to that post was very poor, and seems like deflective scum who is taking a joking accusation too seriously.
In post 235, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 234, NJAC wrote:Finished reading.

@Gamma: your vote on alban is different from Sgz's. What's your point?
It may look different but it's for the same reason: declaring "RVS" on your vote is rather stupid and looks like you are afraid of how the person you are voting will react.
His initial case brought against alban was weak, but his continued pushing of it is really not consistent with the logic he has shown throughout the game, which makes me believe his reasons are fabricated and he knows they are fake so he has to fake earnest behavior while pushing it.
In post 338, Gamma Emerald wrote:Nah at least one of FA and alban is scum.
In post 340, Gamma Emerald wrote:Goddammit I'm still on my Eager vote
VOTE: Fire Assassin
Scum tends to lose track of who they are voting. Seems like a slip here to me.
In post 553, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 545, farside22 wrote:
In post 538, MiniDeathStar wrote:I think NJAC is the VI. I think scum plays a lot more carefully than he does.

Farside and Gamma instantly sheeped NJAC as soon as you Harkonnen said that. What did Gamma say? "this. this. this." More manufactured tells.

I'm not sure what farside is. She reads somewhat town, but she's very experienced so I don't know. I liked her initially for pushing on Gamma but then she dropped the vote and went on NJAC. Just like that. He wasn't even one of her scum reads. She could have been bussing Gamma for all I know.

Yuria, Kop and Harkonnen feel town for now.

I think Fire Assassin feels town, too.

Unsure on FancyPants, but if Gamma is scum, I doubt Fancy is scum.

Not a lot on eagersnake or persephone. Eager is the more suspicious of the two.

Texcat looks scummy. But the fact everyone else think she is scummy makes me doubt that read somewhat. Then again, why are so few people voting her?

NJAC is most likely a VI.
I have NJAC on my scum list at the end of my post.

His game here as I said is nothing like are last game together.
He's more lurky, only one scum read, nothing else of value here.

I don't disagree with Gamma, he completely in gores my question plus you have the hark scum read to sheeping hark.

Yes I think they are scum together.
Look how little Gamma has tried to push that scum read.
It's a town read now on Hark, silly.
This is a very interesting post, and one of the reasons I'm able to confidently say that my scum read on gamma is + but I'm not sure if gamma was 'town reading' hark for the sake of pocketing hark, or if it's buddying. Unfortunately, hark and farside are very good at town telling on the slots, it is a bit confusing.

The case that minideathstar made on gamma was sound, and gamma rather than discussing, deflects all of the facts and makes another jokey post to escape the pressure. This was a major scum tell in my opinion, because a town player with gamma's history normally addresses the points as town, but in this situation his behavior was a total 180.
In post 562, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 559, MiniDeathStar wrote:Fake scumhunting. If you're scum and you know someone isn't but want to lynch them, you have to make up reasons. I feel like this is what you've been doing for a good part of the game. "Pseudo OMGUS"? "Throwing shade"? What do these even mean?

You've been voting pretty much everybody this game. You FOSed Harkonnen and FancyPants. Then you made some weak case on Fire Assassin, then you abandoned it when nobody seemed interested. Then switched to Eager. Then to NJAC. Is that not a contradiction?

Your defence was literally "IDGAF about you". You never asked me what I thought was fake about you until I prompted you to.

You never addressed any of farside's concerns. She's been voting you the longest. Why are you ignoring her?

---

Oh, more posts while I was typing. Okay so NOW you switched to eagerSnake once again? What the hell?
OMGUS = voting/scumreading someone because they voted/scumread you.
Throwing shade is harder to define. It's a general term for attacks like ad hominem.
Hark vote was because he was pushing a lynch in a bad way. I townread him most of the day, including now.
FancyPants was legit me sheeping texcat's reasoning(sheeping means you have the exact same reason). Is it a crime to agree with people?
I switched off FA because I felt like it. If I had multiple votes, one would have likely been left on FA when I switched to Eager.
As for NJAC, I was of the opinion that a deadline wagon needed to be avoided. Now IDGAF as evidenced by my vote on EagerSnake.
And BTW, IDC about responding to farside rn.
Another great post from minideathstar, and another poor reaction post from gamma. Every fact that minideathstar stated was poorly refuted by gamma, and his formatting looks very nervous with his grammar indicating a very premeditated tone.

I'm bolding the portion about farside because I'm quoting it below.
In post 551, farside22 wrote:
In post 547, MiniDeathStar wrote:Actually I really didn't see your last post. I'm sorry about that. I thought before you voted him you were saying he plays scummy when he is town, which is why I was very baffled at you sheeping that wagon.

If you think Gamma is scum with NJAC, why is Gamma bussing NJAC right now? Like, what does he gain from that? Even if NJAC flips scum, I wouldn't give Gamma *any* towncredit for it.

I said NJAC was town because I think he just isn't very good at putting his thoughts into words and is trying to rely more on intuition for his reads. He isn't nitpicking or changing his FOS at first convenience. Then again, I hadn't seen his previous game until now. I have to note he *is* playing a little different this time. I just don't know if it's enough to make me want to vote him over Gamma.
Most players ignore those that jump on the wagon in my experience. They write it off and look off the wagon.

You are one of the few other then me that thinks the dude is scummy. I can just see him skating by.

I'm good with the Gamma vote.
You want a wagon?

VOTE: Gamma

Lets review him.

The call out of hark as scum. then following him.
The weak pushes.
tr on Text cat keeping this for later
calling out NJAC for following, nothing until wagon started
The multitude of scum reads based on nothing at all, IE keeping his options open.
Add to the links I used when I read to the game.
Finally, if I'm going to pick who is the townier between twistedted and farside, it would be farside because of this post right here. She also applies pressure earlier on gamma and his response was the post above that I quoted. The tone seems very genuine and there is no motivation at the time to bus her partner.

There is a lot of buddying going on with hark through gamma's ISO as well. Tbh, hark's wifom of hard claiming scum and vigi was throwing me off, but gamma's ISO indicates to me that there is likely a strong association between the two.

Also, infinity and twistedted replacing into the two slots have done a very, very poor job of town telling. I also think that infinity's reaction posts to my questions was a failure along with ted. They both failed to town tell FMPOV. I was already confident about the infinity scum read, but I have to give credit to hark for finally playing a good scum game if he was in fact the scum because his initial postings were good wifom, and I actually played a game with him earlier where he hard claimed scum but was VT, so I am very paranoid about incorrectly scum reading his slot and having him flip town only to find that it was an infinity/farside scum team.

Twistedted's refusal to cooperate along with infinity's weak willingness to bus his partner makes me believe that it looks as if both scum are indeed on the farside wagon.


I am going to place my vote now on infinity, the rest of you may choose to do what you like the rest of this game, I'll come back to answer any questions you might have regarding the case.

BTW, I cased gamma rather than infinity because infinity has very few posts in this game as well as twisted.

VOTE: Infinity
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Post Post #1325 (isolation #58) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:07 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1284, TwiszTed wrote:iron, why are you completely ignoring the reason I'm scumreading you?

Why would you feign such shock and disbelief when you didn't know how many people were dead when you replaced in, either?
This as well seems interesting. TwistedTed is scum reading my slot because I asked him how he could not know how many players are alive in the game. He says I made the same mistake, which is true, however I replaced into the game LONG after he did, so the fact that he was still running on the game believing that there were 3+ more players in the game than there actually were was an interesting... mistake. I wouldn't really scum read him for this, but his push on me that I must be scum because I called him out for making this mistake feels rather weak, and tbh it's really reaching FMPOV.

I think as scum the smart move would be to have just backed down and push the farside lynch assuming she is town, but instead I read this as fearful preparation in the situation that the farside lynch doesn't go through, then he will have to try to push a scum read on me instead, and his reasoning will be 'I scum read you because:'
In post 1273, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1209, ironstove wrote:
In post 1208, ironstove wrote:
In post 1206, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1203, ironstove wrote:Alright, walk me through your mentality in parking your vote on someone you aren't sure is mafia in mylo?
Let's do some math.

There are nine players alive.

There are four mafia.

Farside has two votes.

Unless both Infinity and I are scum, scum can quicklynch for the win.

They haven't done that yet.

Ergo, either both Infinity and I are scum, or... Farside is scum.

Need a calculator?
There are 6 players alive and there are 2 mafia left. LOL. What the fuck?
This is fake as hell because...
In post 1185, ironstove wrote:Hey host, can you please update the OP with the dead/alive list? I got hella confused I didn't realize we're in mylo (?)

Still reading the game.
... he had the same problem when he replaced in.

Scumreading iron for the second.
Btw, I didn't bother to respond at the time because the post seemed like a waste of my time, but just to clarify, I called you out because A. I made the post to ask about player correction BEFORE you made this post, so it's interesting that you would STILL not know how many players are in this game. Hence I bolded and asked how you could still make this error after A. I asked the host to correct it and B. You were in the game for as long as you were.

Scum reading me for asking you how you could make this error? That doesn't seem like a good reason at all. And you still never answered my question BTW :roll:
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Post Post #1327 (isolation #59) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:23 pm

Post by ironstove »

UNVOTE:

Can you provide me a compelling reason on why farside/twistedted are scum?
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Post Post #1328 (isolation #60) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:23 pm

Post by ironstove »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1329 (isolation #61) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:29 pm

Post by ironstove »

Or better yet, why you're town ? How did you come up with hark as obv town? I read that in your ISO and I never understood that, you and gamma both have hark as obv town.
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Post Post #1330 (isolation #62) » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:30 pm

Post by ironstove »

I will agree that farside not answering your questions earlier in the last 2 pages is odd though. It's making me reconsider my reads.
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Post Post #1334 (isolation #63) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:26 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1331, Infinity 324 wrote:Bleh ok. With the hark thing it was just his attitude and he seemed to be trying to scumhunt without putting in that much effort, which is quite uncommon for scum. But there was that post I asked him about where he asked people to reconsider their townreads on him and check out a game where he played similarly as scum. I'll be completely honest, I didn't read that ISO, but it still bothered me quite a bit because I couldn't really think of a town reason for saying that. Seems more like a scum gambit for towncred. Then he didn't answer the question and replaced out. Since then, twisted has done nothing town. Farside, at least today, had not done any real scumhunting and has refused to answer my simple question which seems like an effort to pick a fight and generate meaningless content.

I'll do some more research and try to find actual evidence to support my PoE but do realize that PoE is my main reason for thinking that's the scumteam.
I'm referring to this post
In post 1056, Infinity 324 wrote:No one has me "pocketed" since no one has had the chance to. Fancy is obvtown. Yuria is obvtown.
Hark is obvtown.
These are facts.

I love how you don't consider that I could be scum.
Why is hark obv town from your perspective when you wrote this post?
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Post Post #1336 (isolation #64) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:30 am

Post by ironstove »

Fair point, I consider a day to be a long time, so I guess it's all relative.
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Post Post #1337 (isolation #65) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:31 am

Post by ironstove »

However, my main point still stands that scum reading me for asking you that question is rather weak, and you still haven't answered my question regarding how you still made that error after I pointed it out to the moderator?
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Post Post #1338 (isolation #66) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:31 am

Post by ironstove »

Actually, that's a moot point, I'd rather you just convince me that you're town.
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Post Post #1361 (isolation #67) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:54 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1349, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1348, Infinity 324 wrote:Can you point out where you think iron was trying to paint you as scum?
No. Read the game for yourself. I'm not doing your homework.
Well, I'm calling you a liar because I never said you were scum for that. :roll:
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Post Post #1362 (isolation #68) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:55 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1343, eagerSnake wrote:
In post 1339, FancyPants wrote:I think our best option is to vote for Ted and take it from there. If he isn't scum then town got outplayed fair enough. Farside + Ted look fairly likely to me at this point, but I'm more sure of the Ted slot.
Nah. Infinity + Ironstove is the scumteam
rxn test or do you really believe this ?
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Post Post #1364 (isolation #69) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:42 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1349, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1348, Infinity 324 wrote:Can you point out where you think iron was trying to paint you as scum?
No. Read the game for yourself. I'm not doing your homework.
Well, I'm calling you out on this and saying you're a liar because I never said you were scum, I just asked you how you made that mistake. You're the one that should probably re-read it because you're misinformed. :wink:
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Post Post #1365 (isolation #70) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:45 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1363, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1361, ironstove wrote:
In post 1349, TwiszTed wrote:
In post 1348, Infinity 324 wrote:Can you point out where you think iron was trying to paint you as scum?
No. Read the game for yourself. I'm not doing your homework.
Well, I'm calling you a liar because I never said you were scum for that. :roll:
You implied as much with your fake ass reaction, and this post is arguing semantics which is scummy as fuck.
Is it arguing semantics? How so? Can you please explain further?

I'm simply quoting what you said, you said that I called you scum for that mistake and hence I am scum, I said that I never called you scum, and asked you to point it out, and now you're refusing to do so because we both know that never happened.

But if you're saying that somewhere nested deep between the lines that I wrote there was an accusatory finger pointed at you, then please illustrate where you saw it because as the person who is in question, that was never my intention, my curiosity is piqued now, wanting to find out if you're really lying about this or if I'm mistaken.
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Post Post #1366 (isolation #71) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:46 pm

Post by ironstove »

In post 1360, TwiszTed wrote:Bottom line, the only people that should even be considered for the lynch today is {farside, Infinity, TwiszTed}. Else, the game would already be over.

I know I'm town. Infinity is a townread. Ergo, farside needs to swing today and any other discussion just distracts from these facts.
Why am I not a part of this list???
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Post Post #1368 (isolation #72) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:19 pm

Post by ironstove »

Ughhh... I'm going to be a little annoyed if you're town, actually.
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Post Post #1371 (isolation #73) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:16 pm

Post by ironstove »

Gonna wait for the PRs to give their 2 cents, they've been in the game for the entirety I'd like to hear their cases before I make a final decision.
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Post Post #1376 (isolation #74) » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:00 pm

Post by ironstove »

Ok, I'm really not as confident about my infinity scum read anymore due to his interactions with farside over the last 3 pages, but this leaves ted as my top scum read.
In post 1332, Plotinus wrote:
Official Vote Count 3.04
Image

LynchingWith 6 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

:!:
farside22
(L-2): Infinity324, TwiszTed
:!:
Infinity324
(L-3): farside22

Not Voting
(3): FancyPants, eagerSnake, ironstove


Mod notes: Hi, I'm the backup mod! Deadline approaches!

Deadline:
(expired on 2016-11-23 14:00:00)
I would like to suggest based on how the wagons are currently formed that we lynch ted. I can't see scum voting for each other? That seems kind of like an extremely bold.

Based on how infinity and farside have spoken, they're fine with lynching ted as he is the scum partner over me, I say we have them vote ted.

So if we lynch ted, he's scum, then vig shoots between infinity/farside and the game is solved.

I know I'm not clear either, I know that's the case and I will work my hardest to town clear myself on the last day, but I also think vigi should claim who he plans to shoot because in the offhand chance that ted is the jailer, the backup jailer can jail the alternative between farside/infinity then town is guaranteed the win.

Does this make sense to everyone?
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Post Post #1385 (isolation #75) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:30 am

Post by ironstove »

I know I play too much mafia because I had a dream/nightmare that we lynched ted and he was VT and we lost the game, probably due to a game I was N1'd on ending yesterday and town losing, however despite how salty I was that I misread the game, I was pretty impressed with the farside/infinity team so gave a well played in my head.
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Post Post #1387 (isolation #76) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:32 am

Post by ironstove »

Farside, what do you think about my suggested plan in ? Sound good?
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Post Post #1388 (isolation #77) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:32 am

Post by ironstove »

@mod, if scum and vigi target each other for the NK, how do the mechanics work? Do both die?
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Post Post #1396 (isolation #78) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:40 am

Post by ironstove »

I need the other 2 PRs to give their opinion on this.

@farside, I think at this point everyone knows eager is the vigi less someone here is claiming it.

And even if someone DOES fake claim vigi, the real vigi can just shoot them the following day.
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Post Post #1401 (isolation #79) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:28 am

Post by ironstove »

Meanwhile eager is gone from this game.

I think eager deserves a spot on my list of 'worst town players you can possibly get in mafia scum' thread that I'm creating.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8534997

What do you guys think?
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Post Post #1402 (isolation #80) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:49 am

Post by ironstove »

Dammit, they already locked my thread. HOLEYYY FUCC
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Post Post #1403 (isolation #81) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:50 am

Post by ironstove »

Anyway 1 day left, I'm down for the plan, but would love it if eager posted and if he's on board then he declares his shot so on the offchance jailer flips the jailer hits the alternate.
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Post Post #1404 (isolation #82) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:50 am

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Why hasn't eager hard claimed vigi yet? That actually kind of bugs me.
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Post Post #1410 (isolation #83) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 4:52 pm

Post by ironstove »

VOTE: Farside

For some reason I feel better about this now.
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Post Post #1413 (isolation #84) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:53 pm

Post by ironstove »

Right now, farside looks scum, looking at the past game, infinity looks like the easy scum, but right now he's acting super town.

I JUST DON'T KNOW HOLY FUCK

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1414 (isolation #85) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:48 pm

Post by ironstove »

ALRIGHT, THAT'S IT VOTE: FARSIDE

PRAY TO THE MAFIA GODS THAT I GET THIS RIGHT.
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Post Post #1415 (isolation #86) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:48 pm

Post by ironstove »

Eager, you should claim your shot before hammer, so fancy doesn't jail your shot if he gets his PR role from the flip
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Post Post #1416 (isolation #87) » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:52 pm

Post by ironstove »

By the way fancy, that was a really good wifom.
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Post Post #1431 (isolation #88) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:41 am

Post by ironstove »

Honestly, I keep going through hark's ISO and it's really towny, so I can believe ted is just a scummy replacement for a towny slot, that makes me believe it's an infinity/farside team, but the bussing is really throwing me off.

All 3 of the slots have good reason to be town read. Very interesting game that I replaced into, actually.

Fancy, we have less than a day left, I think we just go with farside and end this madness.

Alternatively, we can roll a random number generator of the 3 and let probability decide for us LOL, there is a 2/3 chance we are correct.

I think infinity's 'intent to hammer' is a little strange as well.

If he did it so eager can post his target, but the sentence 'any last words' sounds more like his attempt to give his partner an out.

At the end of the day, we can have you declare who you are going to jail of the remaining targets even if eager doesn't declare his shot so he knows who he needs to hit in the situation that he returns late.
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Post Post #1432 (isolation #89) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:45 am

Post by ironstove »

1 thing we know for sure is that scum is definitely bussing this game, like going all out with the bus, so there is basically no way we can determine who the scum team 'actually' are, but we just NEED to hit scum today, and because we have 2 powerful PRs remaining, town is basically guaranteed a win assuming eager and you both submit your night actions as you say and don't site flake.

Fuck man, I'm going to reread this quickly again and see if I can find anything.
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Post Post #1434 (isolation #90) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:46 am

Post by ironstove »

You know what, I am pretty sure farside is scum actually.

The intent to hammer makes me feel a lot better about it, because if infinity was scum and farside was town, he could have won right there.

That does it for me, I'm not changing my vote.
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Post Post #1436 (isolation #91) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:47 am

Post by ironstove »

Please declare your target between infinity/ted if you could because I'm worried that if you don't declare and we hammer, vigi and jailer will block each other if farside flips jailer. Vigi shoots the other.
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Post Post #1439 (isolation #92) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:49 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1434, ironstove wrote:You know what, I am pretty sure farside is scum actually.

The intent to hammer makes me feel a lot better about it, because if infinity was scum and farside was town, he could have won right there.

That does it for me, I'm not changing my vote.
I'm voting farside because of above, if town could have lost, we would have lost already to the scum!infinity and town!farside scenario because infinity had hammer.

So this leaves either town!infinity and scum!farside, or scum!infinity and scum!farside IMO.
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Post Post #1440 (isolation #93) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:50 am

Post by ironstove »

We unintentionally game one of the scum hammer, that basically resulted in an opportunity for town to instalose, but because infinity didn't instahammer, he is either town or unwilling to hammer his partner.
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Post Post #1441 (isolation #94) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:50 am

Post by ironstove »

one of the scum reads*
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Post Post #1442 (isolation #95) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:52 am

Post by ironstove »

In post 1438, FancyPants wrote:
In post 1436, ironstove wrote:Please declare your target between infinity/ted if you could because I'm worried that if you don't declare and we hammer, vigi and jailer will block each other if farside flips jailer. Vigi shoots the other.
Fair, in the case of a farside scum flip I'd check infinity.
I'm bolding this and quoting so eager doesn't miss it. Fancy is going to jail infinity if farside flips jailer.
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Post Post #1444 (isolation #96) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:33 am

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I've already made up my mind, I'm lynching farside.
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Post Post #1445 (isolation #97) » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:34 am

Post by ironstove »

I'm 100% not going to change it at this point, that last voting action that I highlighted in essentially confirmed that farside is not town for me.
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Post Post #1473 (isolation #98) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:29 am

Post by ironstove »

yea eager, you understand if infinity had killed the known role cop instead of the vig you would have been left in lylo with ted and infinity?

anyway.... REALLY good game, don't feel bad about losing, I think you and farside did a great job fooling me, and ted was just the most scummy replacement in the world, while gamma was the most scummy slot prior to infinity coming in, so I basically was mega conflicted this entire game from the reads I was getting... Then farside pushing the gamma slot, and infinty pushing farside, I had such a difficult time trying to figure out who scum was, really all town had to do with role cop and vigi left in the game was to not lynch a town player, which we miraculously managed to do... Ted came so close so many times to being the lynch and it really just came down to luck in the end IMO. Even post kill, scum could have put the last town in a horrid position of picking between ted/infinity and it's difficult to say who would have won in that scenario.
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Post Post #1474 (isolation #99) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:30 am

Post by ironstove »

I'm really not sure why you shot me, unless you thought we had the game 100% but that actually wasn't the case so I guess something in the back of your head made you believe that I was scum, and I'd like it if you could elaborate on why you chose to fire on me.
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Post Post #1491 (isolation #100) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:53 pm

Post by ironstove »

I think eager Def should not have won. He played horrible and the arbitrary scum read while lurking and not talking that could GA e lost the game proves my point, he's a shit can mafia player who doesn't use his most important tool I. E. His brain
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Post Post #1492 (isolation #101) » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:54 pm

Post by ironstove »

Infinity made some questionable and plays as well, and Ted was basically begging to be mislynched... Farside played really well when I look back at the game and mds had great reads too bad town we're all fucking retards who didn't listen
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Post Post #1499 (isolation #102) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:03 pm

Post by ironstove »

Right,eager you understand it was mylo the last day I subbed in, and you basically only had to communicate with me.

I saw when you said I was scum, then I tried to engage with you and ask you 1. Why were you scum reading me, and 2. What you thought about pre-declared targets.

If you were against #2, you should have said so so that I could have convinced you it was optimal and such, but instead you site flaked and you decided 'fuck it I'm going to shoot this guy because I am gut reading it instead of even talking to him'

And had infinity said 'Fuck it I'm going to kill the RC' then you basically would have been in a miserable 3-way all because you never bothered to talk with me at end game. There is no point trying to avoid NK when you're vig and it's mylo, literally 0 point.
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Post Post #1500 (isolation #103) » Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:08 pm

Post by ironstove »

It's plays like that, that lose games, having a PR and trying to play the game on your own, you basically disregard all discussion, and throw out all communication and undo all of the work people put into trying to game solve by saying 'I'm going to not talk and not listen, and basically do actions where no one will know wtf is happening'

I realize now that the plan was severely flawed after I saw what happened at night, had the mafia player also realized that if role cop is on the remaining mafia player, he only need kill role cop to secure a lylo, and you know, I probably would have been mislynched on the last day anyway now that I think about it, because you were scum reading me for no reason, and you probably would have just jumped into the thread to vote for me.

Can you at least respond to my initial question on why you found me suspicious and thought I was scum? Just because you had a feeling in your gut that you can't explain?
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