Open 660 - White Flag (Game Over)

[alban]

VOTE: Lethargy

u guys kno why

Coz there's no transcendence with lethargy?
VOTE: Lethargy

[alban]

Why is an RVS bandwagon pointless?

[alban]

Eric is townlean.
Apart from that, such useless 6-pages of talking-through-your-hat.
Day1 are pathetic.

[alban]

Top scum read Keyen.
Active lurking and laundering.

Suspicious early posts by Aubrey. Not of late though.
IGMEOY.

[alban]

Top scum read Keyen.
Active lurking and laundering.

Suspicious early posts by Aubrey. Not of late though.
IGMEOY.

Why no vote?

VOTE: Keyen

[alban]

Alban, was just thinking the same (SR) about keyen on the reread. Not sure what you mean by laundering but the posts do look fluffy. I don't think I saw any accusation of his yet either. He's letting others make pushes and is picking ones that look supported to back. I don't like 119 either. I was clearly being serious about my Aubrey read at the time.

VOTE: Keyen

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Laundering

159 laundering
All other posts active lurking
Giving generous town passes to a lot of players. Buddying?

[alban]

Is Lethargy a hydra acc?

We still aren't sure what's aubrey's alignment is. hmmm

Oh yeah we don't have any PRs here so I think this game would last long.

I hope you're not scum, Toto.

tbh i don't find any scummy atm. mostly i read as not serious.

Anyone played with Keyen before?
Does this fit in with his usual playing style?
This=short posts, numerous posts, easy distribution of towncreds, etc.

[alban]

Sorry about the quotes. It was meant as a part of earlier post to show how fluffy Keyen's posts are, but then discovered his whole ISO is fluffy. Forgot to unquote.

[alban]

:/ your version of quickening the game is not progressive though for the town. You're just mindlessly voting someone "

Just because.

" Your basis is just, lets just lynch someone for little to no reason in order to move onto day 2. Tell me good sir, what do you hope to gain or learn by that? Your play is nothing more than lethargic day one play that is either coming from a lazy townie, a townie who doesn't know how to work from nothing, or scum.

Your not really trying to catch scum. Your not really trying to find likely townies. Your just a blah member right now doing a lot of nothing but complaining about day one, or trying to seem like a progressive townie as scum.

So far I'm not a fan of you or SSBM. I actually have a slight town lean for Dave right now. I like the fact he went after Transcend, and for the reasons provided even if I did not aggree with his suspicions against Transcend.

This is actually not a bad post and I say that as the person being attacked. I agree that my slot hasn't been the pinnacle of good play, but I replaced this slot because I read it as Town and it is. I especially like the last paragraph.

How opinions differ. 157 is exactly why I found Aubrey scummy.

[alban]

Why?

[alban]

What?

[alban]

Alban, was just thinking the same (SR) about keyen on the reread. Not sure what you mean by laundering but the posts do look fluffy. I don't think I saw any accusation of his yet either. He's letting others make pushes and is picking ones that look supported to back. I don't like 119 either. I was clearly being serious about my Aubrey read at the time.

VOTE: Keyen

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Laundering

159 laundering
All other posts active lurking
Giving generous town passes to a lot of players. Buddying?

So you're suspecting me because of lack of voting?

Dont know how to put it without offending you. But you asked.
I find nothing substantial in your posts. Which is expected this early on. Then why post at all? Maybe your playstyle as you say. That points me to a null-read.
Additionally, players like you and Aubrey seem to have analysed posts from this early on, and he is distributing scum-creds, and you mostly town-creds. And I find this effort to gather substantial evidence from early posts quite laborious, fake and suspicious.

[alban]

Initially the timing felt as if you were trying to derail the wagon on dave. It could also have been a vote, while not for derailing, for distancing.

Sometimes scum try to stay away from the topic at hand. Even if they don't want to directly influence the said topic.

Do you still find eric's slot scummy?

I've basically skimmed the last 3-4 pages. On a skim, I'm much happier with the slot. As I said, my major issue with him was his contraditive attitude. "

Hey guys lets narrow down some lynch options right out the gate and get a move on, while I go sit in the corner and do nothing but complain!

" When BTD said he asked for a replacement, I basically nulled the spot of its ever so light scum lean since it is so early in the game.

Regarding Dave, I just found his early posts playful shitty early day 1 activities. Eh. The argument that town would never vote themselves is farfetched, and a lie. Yea. Not a very interesting wagon in my eyes right out the gate.

--

Holy shit this game is on fire this morning.

Your case against Eric was thin. Which is why I wrote 134.
Either what you are saying is true or you are backtracking coz you realised LQ is more active and persistent than Eric.
Also your backtracking and explanation appears defensive, and hence, suspicious.

[alban]

Oh wait. 658 ended this morning. I can talk about it now. Dave literally pushed Transcend for the exact same reasoning I pushed him in said game. We were both townies in said game as well. While I understand this doesn't mean Dave is town 100% I think it looks good on his part, and it makes me think he is actively trying to place him which seems townie to me. It is a slight town lean mind you. Hence my Deja vu comment.

DONT FUCK IT UP DAVE! xoxoxo with love,

Aubrey.

ps.

Dont fuck it up.

Since so many of you were in the other game, is it possible that scum!Dave is deliberately bringing in the style used by you in the previous game for you to starting him based on a feeling that he is doing something you usually do.
Unless you are sure scum!Dave is not likely to do such a thing, this is a possibility.

[alban]

And if it's a possibility, I will not give someone a towncred just coz their questioning style resembles yours.

[alban]

Wait, I thought Dave was also a part of that game. If not, I misunderstood.

[alban]

I glanced through Keyen's ISO. I can see where people may consider his posts fluffy, but I'm not exactly seeing this as super scum. I'm also a bit biased since we seem to have similar ideas here and there. He understood my shit posting early on where as others failed to. We have similar thoughts on Dave. We both understand that Transcend is a bit of a wild card at times (well I assume so based on that one game). We clearly had issues with Eric's play for obvious reasons. I don't exactly consider him lurking when we have players like Deer and that hydra account that haven't said much as of recently. The argument of him considering everyone town and working from there doesn't seem all that scummy to me either. I can't say I understand why you would do that, but whatever. I work from null to X, but to each their own.

If I were to bring an argument forward against him, I'd say a good amount of his posts could easily come from either alignment. He however is bringing forward reads with some reasoning which is nice. I do find it interesting that people are shitting on him for some of his fluffy comments, but gamma never got mentioned. A number of his posts are also fluffy. There maybe other players with fluffy posts, but Gamma is the one other person who I distinctly recall having some fluff to his stuff.

--

Pre-edit. I am not an Alt account and I have never played with Dave. Unless Dave is an alt account.

Your first para: Similar to what I asked you about Dave. You and Keyen were the most active at that time. Is it possible, even marginally, for him to agree with you without obviously sheeping you.
About Eric, no, sorry there was nothing obviously scummy. He just wanted to quicken the game, and I kinda see his pov. You can say the same thing (about me feeling Eric was trustworthy coz he echoed my thoughts), and justify your town read about Dave, but the thing is his reads follow yours, where it is easy for him to sheep you, whereas Eric was alone then..in any case, it's a minor point. Just that don't given him towncred coz his thoughts appear similar to yours (I am comforted by reading your 2nd para - that it could come from either alignment).

Keyen was definitely not lurking. I felt he was doing active-lurking. I am sure you know what it means. For me active lurking is more suspicious than just lurking.

ScumDeers lone post is pretty scummy btw, but I am reading him as town, keeping in mind that, for all you know, he is being the same coz there are some players from that game in this game too.

About Gamma, well, 'shitting' on Keyen doesn't mean Gamma gets to go scot-free. It's just that I don't think Gamma did any fluffing. I found his playstyle normal.

[alban]

Spoiler:

Initially the timing felt as if you were trying to derail the wagon on dave. It could also have been a vote, while not for derailing, for distancing.

Sometimes scum try to stay away from the topic at hand. Even if they don't want to directly influence the said topic.

Do you still find eric's slot scummy?

I've basically skimmed the last 3-4 pages. On a skim, I'm much happier with the slot. As I said, my major issue with him was his contraditive attitude. "

Hey guys lets narrow down some lynch options right out the gate and get a move on, while I go sit in the corner and do nothing but complain!

" When BTD said he asked for a replacement, I basically nulled the spot of its ever so light scum lean since it is so early in the game.

Regarding Dave, I just found his early posts playful shitty early day 1 activities. Eh. The argument that town would never vote themselves is farfetched, and a lie. Yea. Not a very interesting wagon in my eyes right out the gate.

--

Holy shit this game is on fire this morning.

Your case against Eric was thin. Which is why I wrote 134.
Either what you are saying is true or you are backtracking coz you realised LQ is more active and persistent than Eric.
Also your backtracking and explanation appears defensive, and hence, suspicious.

And your case against Keyen or I is that much thicker?

My argument: X person looks as if they maybe attempting to be faking a proactive town stance.

Your arguments: X person is pushing a thin argument early game. X person is lurky-ish,

but I'll ignore other players who are also lurky-ish

.

Why would I ignore? What incentive do you see for me to do that? Unless you are implying I am scum or that I am scum with 'other players who are lurky-ish', why would I ignore them? And if you are implying I am scum and that's why I am doing it, you have no case on me, but you are using my arguments against me to build a case on me. That's a bit of a stretch.

btw, why those small size comments?

[alban]

I meant 'my arguments against you' in 282.

[alban]

I also un-voted the MOMENT Eric requested a replacement, not after he was replaced and LQ displayed immense activity. So scratch this crap of me backtracking cause

"I realized LQ is more active and persistent than Eric."

I agree with this. I had forgotten about the positioning of your unvote.
But that brings me to another q.
If you really thought Eric was scummy, you shouldn't have unvoted before clearing his successor. I am not saying you are scummy or townie for doing that, but you can't use that argument in your favour either.

[alban]

Spoiler:

Initially the timing felt as if you were trying to derail the wagon on dave. It could also have been a vote, while not for derailing, for distancing.

Sometimes scum try to stay away from the topic at hand. Even if they don't want to directly influence the said topic.

Do you still find eric's slot scummy?

I've basically skimmed the last 3-4 pages. On a skim, I'm much happier with the slot. As I said, my major issue with him was his contraditive attitude. "

Hey guys lets narrow down some lynch options right out the gate and get a move on, while I go sit in the corner and do nothing but complain!

" When BTD said he asked for a replacement, I basically nulled the spot of its ever so light scum lean since it is so early in the game.

Regarding Dave, I just found his early posts playful shitty early day 1 activities. Eh. The argument that town would never vote themselves is farfetched, and a lie. Yea. Not a very interesting wagon in my eyes right out the gate.

--

Holy shit this game is on fire this morning.

Your case against Eric was thin. Which is why I wrote 134.
Either what you are saying is true or you are backtracking coz you realised LQ is more active and persistent than Eric.
Also your backtracking and explanation appears defensive, and hence, suspicious.

And your case against Keyen or I is that much thicker?

My argument: X person looks as if they maybe attempting to be faking a proactive town stance.

Your arguments: X person is pushing a thin argument early game. X person is lurky-ish,

but I'll ignore other players who are also lurky-ish

.

I don't like this post at all.

This feels very much like scum aubrey vs town alban.

Explain.

The comparison of arguments. It is meaningless unless you know for certain that one set of argument has to be correct.

Meaning, say alban's arguments are correct/consistent because he is town.

You comparing your set of arguments to his, either to solidify your set of arguments in his eyes (silly since he could be scum) or to weaken his set of arguments (not possible since that would mean you are scum). There is not much point to be made with that comparison in my eyes.

Exactly what I wanted to say but couldn't put it in words. Thank you for vocalising it in a comprehensible manner.

[alban]

Alban, can you expand more about the 'active-lurking' thingy your saying on me? Because, I swear, I'm lurking, yes, but I'm also posting things. Why is that scummy?

If lurking + posting means active lurking, then why is that scummy?

I am sorry, I should have explained.
Active lurking means exactly how you have defined it in 289.
You will find more about it here, and also how it could be a good mafia strategy: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ve_Lurking

[alban]

LQ, why are you so engrossed in people's mafia playing experiences? Explain please.
You should be more interested in their expertise. And there's no correlation between the two. The q you should be asking is if anyone has played a game before with the player you are suspecting, and if there's anything different about them.

[alban]

Lol. I am not Active Lurking.

Your words against my reads. Any guesses, which one will I trust more?
I don't wanna appear patronising, especially if you are town, but surely there's something more that you could be doing with your posts?

[alban]

Tbh I don't find Eric that scummy. As I stated in Post 159, I am convincing him to form a case or reads because he simply wants the game to quicken. If he wants that, then why don't he form a case rather than complaining such things. That's what I'm trying to point out. I also stated that I can see him as newbtown but also stated that he has a high percent chance of being scum. Of course, I didn't vote because I still consider the newbtown thing.

Alban, is that your laundering case on me?

And I also find Aubrey as my first real town read.

Not laundering. I have already put forth my suspicion and vote on you.

See this is what I don't like. You giving another town-cred. Not coz it's to a player I suspect, but why no reasons, especially if he is your first real town read. Surely that guarantees a reason?

[alban]

If it's a gut feeling, how can it be a 'first real town read'? A gut feeling would leave some scope for a scum!flip, which your post doesn't convey. This is contradictory.

[alban]

LQ, why are you so engrossed in people's mafia playing experiences? Explain please.
You should be more interested in their expertise. And there's no correlation between the two. The q you should be asking is if anyone has played a game before with the player you are suspecting, and if there's anything different about them.

Honestly, I think meta reads are mostly shit. The reason I want to ask about things

such as(!)

experience is because it gives me a glimpse into how they play. A player like keyen is going to play differently than someone who has played very little short forum mafia games. The difficult part is trying to understand how these differences affect play and how you can read a player knowing their experience they have going forward in the game.

I'll give you an example that should be easy to understand.
keyen plays games that are likely very fast paced. This means that reads also need to be made at a faster pace than places like this one where days are spread out over weeks instead of hours. This is why I am a little weary of keyen, because he has really only given us a single substantial read (to my knowledge). It seems at least uncharacteristic for keyen to sit back and formulate reads at a slow pace when he is used to making reads at a much faster pace.

So you trust a player's words about their experience vis-a-vis their documented meta? Meta could a shit, but a scum's statement about their experience could be simply false.

[alban]

And hence, shittier.

[alban]

Didn't I tell everybody that I town read everyone by default? And yes, Aubrey is my first real town read. The rest are just null town.

I don't think you are getting my point.
I understood that Aubrey is your town read. I want to know the reason.
If it's a gut feeling and you can't provide a reason, how is it 'real' anymore?
Or is your gut always right?

Except ssbm and you. You two are null scum

What's nulltown and nullscum according to you?
Why am I nullscum?

[alban]

Spoiler:

LQ, why are you so engrossed in people's mafia playing experiences? Explain please.
You should be more interested in their expertise. And there's no correlation between the two. The q you should be asking is if anyone has played a game before with the player you are suspecting, and if there's anything different about them.

Honestly, I think meta reads are mostly shit. The reason I want to ask about things

such as(!)

experience is because it gives me a glimpse into how they play. A player like keyen is going to play differently than someone who has played very little short forum mafia games. The difficult part is trying to understand how these differences affect play and how you can read a player knowing their experience they have going forward in the game.

I'll give you an example that should be easy to understand.
keyen plays games that are likely very fast paced. This means that reads also need to be made at a faster pace than places like this one where days are spread out over weeks instead of hours. This is why I am a little weary of keyen, because he has really only given us a single substantial read (to my knowledge). It seems at least uncharacteristic for keyen to sit back and formulate reads at a slow pace when he is used to making reads at a much faster pace.

So you trust a player's words about their experience vis-a-vis their documented meta? Meta could a shit, but a scum's statement about their experience could be simply false.

Its not usually something people lie about because most people don't even factor in experience as a metric to read people by! My whole philosophy on reading people is based on the

person

behind the action. You cannot always play by the book because some people do not play that way. If everyone played by the book then the game would be about who plays by the book the best. This game is just as much about psychology as it is about optimal play. To ignore the facets that make up the personality of the player is a grave mistake! Playing optimally only works when there is psychological factors that are accounted for. You cannot play the game on mathematics alone! The game the players and the stances people would make could literally never get started without some catalyst for understanding the motive of the player behind the action.

Though I agree with you to a certain extent, it's all too vague.
Let's talk about me.
So, before joining MafiaScum, I played about 10 games of mafia, 5 face-to-face (dayphase of 20-30 minutes) and 5 whatsapp games (dayphase of 48-120 hours, pre-decided at the start of the game). I have finished games here in last 9 months (all with a 2 week dayphase).
How have you read me so far, and how do you see my personality? And how does my experience factor in to make reads on my personality?

[alban]

I meant, I have finished 3 games here in last 9 months.

[alban]

@ Aubrey: "Lastly and

most importantly

..."

Ouch!

[alban]

Keyen, i am scum reading you at the moment. If you are a town, you should try to answer rather than getting defensive n omgusing n discrediting me, coz your answers can help me look elsewhere. You being defensive isn't helping the situation. My q are fairly straightfwd.
1. Why is aubrey your first real town read?
2. What does null scum mean according to you, and why am i nullscum?

A third q springs to mind.
3. You said you are null/townreading everyone except me n ssbm. We are also the only two who are suspecting you. Is there a cause-effect relationship between who is suspecting you and whom you are suspecting?

[alban]

Gamma, please don't leave the game.

It's really difficult to form opinions on a slot when someone else replaces in it midway. It's very frustrating! Let the day 1 be under way and I am sure things will catch momentum.

Aubrey, you are driving people away by telling them that they are't active enough. First Eric, and now Gamma. The hydra could have left too. It will be better for the game if you stop being pushy like this. That's what prods and mod-based replacements are for. No need for the players to take over that responsibility.

[alban]

Will it be outside the rules to PM Gamma?

[alban]

@BTD6, noted.

[alban]

Spoiler:

That post from lethargy where he/she gives his "analysis" of the game when pushed was the most ridiculous one.

Really? They at least provided a reads list. More than a lot of people have done.

It feels fake. Extremely brief in nature and seems like it is done with the intent of looking like doing something rather than honest.

What cues you in specifically to tell you it looks "fake?"

The fact that it is brief and covers a large spectrum of players. There is a small tonal shift in their posts as well from the beginning of the game.

Remember their post where they say how it is time for them to start doing something (because of my earlier suspicion on them)?

They are lurking and seem disconnected from the game, even with this small reads list. They seem to have not much interest in directly interacting with others and frankly writing two lines on several people's play is easier.

I agree with Chilled in the fact that it seems like the slot is actively lurking (even with one head in a VLA status). Twice now the slot become more active once pressured, but when it is not pressured it is reserved. As I said, it appears to be coasting instead of proactively trying to move the game forward. That read list, coupled with its "

afterwards I'll answer any questions

", seems just like a quick fix in order to alleviate pressure and resume its lurking behavior.

I wonder if it's scared to play without the aid of its other head, or scared to make moves the other head doesn't agree with, but I find it hard to put to much care into the thought due to the slots overwhelmingly laid back nature before the VLA. Not to mention saying "

I'm just to lazy to play

" doesn't exactly help either.

Just like in case of Eric, there's nothing here that's suspicious.
You guys seem to be blowing this up.
Agreed, that post was a lot of IIoA. But as they say, they are new, and new players are expected to do that.
Do remember Aubrey, that the post came immediately after your pressure post. And bowing to your pressure, they agreed to give something substantial. Most parsimonious explanation is that they came up with the IIoA wall on every single player.

[alban]

Most parsimonious = simplest or most economical

[alban]

You guys realise that this kind of wagon isn't going to work on someone like Cracker, right?
Most likely she will give up or come up with an outlandish post, which will further confirm your suspicions on her.
Plus, lynching her isn't gonna be useful in any way.
Keyen is a better choice. Look at his posts. There's a lot more scope for improvement there. And they are capable of giving a defence.

[alban]

I dare you to find enough votes to lynch me.

[alban]

Not defending her.
Saying that pressurising her isn't gonna work.
She will either fail or flail. Just 5 days old here.
Plus, lynching her gives away nothing.
Even if she is mafia, I rather keep her for the end.

[alban]

ssbm, why quiet?

[alban]

What the hell is the point of defending Cracker

Exactly.
I see no reason to defend someone against votes that really aren't even happening yet.
Seems like scum trying to get votes away from a buddy, but a really bad attempt.

Notice how Transcend and LQ have voted for her, and Chilled has already expressed suspicion.

I dont approve your logic here, but if that's what you think, you should vote for me rather than for her. Clearly, I am a better target to remove on day 1. You can handle her even later if she is scum.

And this is exactly my point for trying to find out scum among the stronger players.
Thinking about an absent player as scum is the worst signal you are sending out to the scum.

P-edit: IGMEOY too LQ. That was opportunistic.

[alban]

I guess your townlean on me disappeared, eh LQ?

[alban]

Am at L-4 with votes from Keyen, Transcend and LQ.
Dave and Toto will join for sure.
Gamma maybe.
That will put me at L-1.
All the scums in there?

[alban]

I guess your townlean on me disappeared, eh LQ?

You seem really uppity for 2 measly votes.

Is my uppitiness bothering yours?

[alban]

Am at L-4 with votes from Keyen, Transcend and LQ.
Dave and Toto will join for sure.
Gamma maybe.
That will put me at L-1.
All the scums in there?

Games over well done, alban just solved the game for us on day 1. I am impressed.

Devaaaa...grant this moron some sense of humour

[alban]

Interesting.

Apart from your OMGUS on my reasons and vote for you (which are already stated if you could take the efforts of ISO-ing and finding out), you have nothing to prove my scumminess, have you? Let's see how you build your case against me:
Ohhh he is bullying me...
Ohhh he is pressuring me...
Ohh he is so badd.....
Ohh city, can't you see...
Ohh city, why won't you help me lynching him....

And that's all your reason to lynch me?
Keyen seriously, that's pitiful. Like you spent 6 months here, and that's all you got?

[alban]

btw, Keyen one genuine question for you. I wanted to ask this to you long before. But I forgot. Your resurfacing reminded me of this.

Spoiler:

@Alban, It's because I still haven't felt something suspicious. Maybe I am just a VI or just dumb or maybe just bored and lazy to play mafia games?

Oh yeah. I was VI back then. Newbie days.

FUCK, THE GAME ATE MY POST! Ugh. Not going to be as eloquent.

@Keyen

Basically you're not voting anybody, but have said you have 2 scum leans, 1 town read, and everybody else null. One would suspect you would vote one of your scum leans. You don't like them because they are pushing you. It is

kinda

OMGUS, even if they are not voting you, because you are scum reading them only for their pressuring against you. Minus of course your dissaproval of Ssmb's crappy push against me.

If I never feel like there's something scummy on the way he's pressuring me, Then I wouldn't have done something like OMGUS. But the problem is, I feel like there's something added to it. Like it's not a town push. If it is, I would have asked myself if his pressure is really accurate and that the reason would have suspected myself too.

My another point is that - Yes, he's pressuring me but I feel like there's a scum thing on that push, and the way he pressures me is really hard like I don't even know what I am gonna explain, and it is really frustrating especially I am town and I don't know what to do and that I can't suspect him simply by saying it's a gut feeling, that would be 10x I'll be scummy. And this thing is what I'm experiencing right now.

Call me VI but I'm town.

Why would you keep calling yourself as a VI?
I know newbies or ineffective players really find that term offensive. You can call a bad player anything - literally anything - and they are fine with it, except when you call them the VI. Then they flip. They scream, shout, the works.
It's weird, how you are quick to call yourself a VI before anyone even entertaining that possibility. Not once but thrice. Why would you harp on something thrice?
I am a VI.
I am a VI.
I am a VI.....

Is that coz you would rather be considered a VI for your posts and not be considered a scum for your posts lacking content? I think your posts lack content coz you are scum but not a good one at that and are not able to hide your alignment by coming up with convincingly deeper content oriented posts.

So please answer my q. Why did you think of yourself as a VI?

[alban]

Coz I guess I wanted the town to analyse my wagon, while I would be laughing about it posthumously?
This move really seems to be working.

[alban]

Consider this my defence-cum-advice in case I am not alive:

One advice to the townies among you on the wagon: The q you should be asking, did he really become aggressive as is being perpetrated, and if yes, why would he do that? Was there a need for him to? Was he in a difficult place to begin with?
But if you come to the conclusion that there was nothing aggressive about his post, and that it was just a joke, and somehow a joke was spun out of proportion, then the obvious q you would be asking,

who did that?

You should read posts around mine to get that.

But that's less interesting.

More interesting will be to analyse the wagon. It's night here, so it is possible that I could be lynched by the time I am up. If I flip scum, well you have nothing to worry. Good for

finding me out so easily.

But if I flip town, this is a valuable info. Look at who is on my wagon. And look at their reasons

Transcend:

Votes for me coz I suggested not voting for a newbie like Cracker. I agree, so scummy. A scum!me will of course try to dissuade you from voting someone else.

Dave:

Hasn't voted yet, but suspects me for suggesting not to vote for Cracker coz I am Cracker's partner. So scummy of me. A scum!me will of course try to dissuade you from voting for my partner by urging you to vote for me

LQ:

Coz I am uppity to begin with, and his post-vote reaction (post-vote being the operative word) that I overreacted. So scummy of me. A scum!me will be openly arrogant and feel threatened after receiving two votes. Like that's not contradictory.

Keyen:

Votes for me coz I misunderstood his suspicion of me as a vote. Mistake happened on my part, but Keyen thinks that was scummy and should be reprimanded with a vote. So scummy of me. A scum!me will deliberately try to count an extra vote, especially from a person I am suspecting.

Lethargy:

Who thinks I am bitter for having a vote on me. So scummy of me. A scum!me will be open with my bitterness for receiving one vote.

My guess, one scum here for sure. Hierarchy from scum to town:

LQ=Keyen

>

Lethargy=Dave

>

Transcend

LQ, given your experience, I am surprised you were so openly opportunistic. If you're a town, it's even more surprising. You have zero reason for voting me.
Same goes for Lethargy. Opportunistic. But not surprised looking at your joining date.
Keyen & Dave, I was anyway suspecting you, so this opportunism doesn't come as a surprise.
Transcend, why am I not surprised? Unpredictability is your second nature.

Finally, just to make you aware what my contribution has been to the game, for you to think if a scum would do that:
1. I thought Keyen is fake and constantly questioned him. Look at my ISO. Look at our interaction. I persisted with my suspicion despite any wagon.
2. I thought newer, weaker or absentee players should not be targetted on day 1. They can be scum, but their lynches don't tell us anything. Plus, having a weaker scum in the later parts is okay. Multiple cases in point. I opposed voting against Eric, Cracker, Lethargy.
3. I didn't want Gamma to replace coz a slot becomes fuzzy once taken over by a different person. I pursuaded Gamma to come back. It's a small thing, but a scum would want chaos in the game. I wanted more order in the game.

P-edit:
Keyen: If I am scummy for appearing bitter, frustrated or childish, I guess I must be Coz perceptions are everything, right? Just one more q for you (I seem to have an endless supply for you): tell me what are you gonna do when I flip town? Who will be your top contenders for being scums (and I want the town to listen to his answer carefully). Keyen, you realise

you are going to be under scrutiny

, right? If you are scum, you are doomed coz a townflip was suspecting you. If you are town (yes, believe it or not, but despite all my pressure, I do entertain that possibility), the scum is gonna make the town go against you. Whether town or scum, you are screwed baby.

LQ: My posts around the one Transcend vote started as a joke, but

you made sure that it snowballed

. Most of my recent comments have been lighthearted, including the posthumous remark. For you to not see the light side of it is weird. But given that you do not see that, and given that I am at L-2, I would like to see the positive side of the wagon rather than be negative about it. So, to answer your comment, no, the wagon

didn't begin

as a move to assist the city, but now that

it's built, why not use it for something better

like finding scum. If I am anyway gonna be lynched for a stray remark, I rather caution town what to do once I am gone.

[alban]

LQ: My posts around the one Transcend vote started as a joke, but you made sure that it snowballed.

Question:

Do you think my vote was actually a joke?

Nope.
But I didn't take your vote seriously, since I have experienced that you move it around frequently.
My comment of daring you was an obvious court jester moment. I was fooling around since the game was in a lull, and thought of spicing it up. I had no clue there would be four more waiting to get on the wagon.

[alban]

Alban, if you feel like my posts are fluffy or whatever fake things or being so nonsense,

Do you also consider posts like Lethargy, Gamma and Dave?

as I know, they haven't contributed much either. Let me know your answer.

1. There are three scums in the game. You being scummy is independent of others.
2. I have one vote. I will place it on the person who appears scummiest to me. I started with you coz you embodied all the traits you yourself highlighted in your post.
3. Gamma is no fluff.
You, Lethargy and Dave, yes.
Among you three, Lethargy is new. Dave was uninvolved. You were involved by actively lurking. Which means you were all over the place without any solid contribution to the game. This is why I kept asking you about your reads. If you were a scum, you would have no solid basis behind your reads. Which is what turned out to be true. You had no basis.
Usually after going blazing guns on the scummiest player, and ascertaining that they can't be scum, I move my vote to the next most scummiest player. Credit to you, that situation never arose

[alban]

BTW alban, you're free to ask Transcend if he thinks I am actually capable of "snowballing" anything.

As if I am gonna believe or do anything you say from here on, you stealthy machiavellian opportunist.

[alban]

Spoiler:

btw, Keyen one genuine question for you. I wanted to ask this to you long before. But I forgot. Your resurfacing reminded me of this.

Spoiler:

@Alban, It's because I still haven't felt something suspicious. Maybe I am just a VI or just dumb or maybe just bored and lazy to play mafia games?

Oh yeah. I was VI back then. Newbie days.

FUCK, THE GAME ATE MY POST! Ugh. Not going to be as eloquent.

@Keyen

Basically you're not voting anybody, but have said you have 2 scum leans, 1 town read, and everybody else null. One would suspect you would vote one of your scum leans. You don't like them because they are pushing you. It is

kinda

OMGUS, even if they are not voting you, because you are scum reading them only for their pressuring against you. Minus of course your dissaproval of Ssmb's crappy push against me.

If I never feel like there's something scummy on the way he's pressuring me, Then I wouldn't have done something like OMGUS. But the problem is, I feel like there's something added to it. Like it's not a town push. If it is, I would have asked myself if his pressure is really accurate and that the reason would have suspected myself too.

My another point is that - Yes, he's pressuring me but I feel like there's a scum thing on that push, and the way he pressures me is really hard like I don't even know what I am gonna explain, and it is really frustrating especially I am town and I don't know what to do and that I can't suspect him simply by saying it's a gut feeling, that would be 10x I'll be scummy. And this thing is what I'm experiencing right now.

Call me VI but I'm town.

Why would you keep calling yourself as a VI?
I know newbies or ineffective players really find that term offensive. You can call a bad player anything - literally anything - and they are fine with it, except when you call them the VI. Then they flip. They scream, shout, the works.
It's weird, how you are quick to call yourself a VI before anyone even entertaining that possibility. Not once but thrice. Why would you harp on something thrice?
I am a VI.
I am a VI.
I am a VI.....

Is that coz you would rather be considered a VI for your posts and not be considered a scum for your posts lacking content? I think your posts lack content coz you are scum but not a good one at that and are not able to hide your alignment by coming up with convincingly deeper content oriented posts.

So please answer my q. Why did you think of yourself as a VI?

Are you scumreading keyen for this?[/quote]
Yes.
Scum will be fine being considered bottom of the town pile.
No town should be content being considered VI. That too self confession. Thrice.

[alban]

Corrected.

btw, Keyen one genuine question for you. I wanted to ask this to you long before. But I forgot. Your resurfacing reminded me of this.

Spoiler:

@Alban, It's because I still haven't felt something suspicious. Maybe I am just a VI or just dumb or maybe just bored and lazy to play mafia games?

Oh yeah. I was VI back then. Newbie days.

FUCK, THE GAME ATE MY POST! Ugh. Not going to be as eloquent.

@Keyen

Basically you're not voting anybody, but have said you have 2 scum leans, 1 town read, and everybody else null. One would suspect you would vote one of your scum leans. You don't like them because they are pushing you. It is

kinda

OMGUS, even if they are not voting you, because you are scum reading them only for their pressuring against you. Minus of course your dissaproval of Ssmb's crappy push against me.

If I never feel like there's something scummy on the way he's pressuring me, Then I wouldn't have done something like OMGUS. But the problem is, I feel like there's something added to it. Like it's not a town push. If it is, I would have asked myself if his pressure is really accurate and that the reason would have suspected myself too.

My another point is that - Yes, he's pressuring me but I feel like there's a scum thing on that push, and the way he pressures me is really hard like I don't even know what I am gonna explain, and it is really frustrating especially I am town and I don't know what to do and that I can't suspect him simply by saying it's a gut feeling, that would be 10x I'll be scummy. And this thing is what I'm experiencing right now.

Call me VI but I'm town.

Why would you keep calling yourself as a VI?
I know newbies or ineffective players really find that term offensive. You can call a bad player anything - literally anything - and they are fine with it, except when you call them the VI. Then they flip. They scream, shout, the works.
It's weird, how you are quick to call yourself a VI before anyone even entertaining that possibility. Not once but thrice. Why would you harp on something thrice?
I am a VI.
I am a VI.
I am a VI.....

Is that coz you would rather be considered a VI for your posts and not be considered a scum for your posts lacking content? I think your posts lack content coz you are scum but not a good one at that and are not able to hide your alignment by coming up with convincingly deeper content oriented posts.

So please answer my q. Why did you think of yourself as a VI?

Are you scumreading keyen for this?

Yes.
Scum will be fine being considered bottom of the town pile.
No town should be content being considered VI. That too self confession. Thrice.

[alban]

I got what I wanted

UNVOTE: alban

What exactly did you want? And what did you get?

[alban]

Am at L-4 with votes from Keyen, Transcend and LQ.
Dave and Toto will join for sure.
Gamma maybe.
That will put me at L-1.
All the scums in there?

You know me a bit too well, I

am

willing to vote you.

That's what happens when you play 3 back to back games with someone.

[alban]

After my pattern review, I find your answer to my question to be indicative of scum. Last time someone pushed someone on that "town would make comments about themselves like that" basis they were scum.
VOTE: alban

And thereby implying that Keyen's behaviour is not scummy?
You realise the contradiction?

[alban]

I got what I wanted

UNVOTE: alban

What exactly did you want? And what did you get?

I wanted to see how you would react when I pissed you off.

Obviously.
Asking you about the conclusions. Not the results.

[alban]

After my pattern review, I find your answer to my question to be indicative of scum. Last time someone pushed someone on that "town would make comments about themselves like that" basis they were scum.
VOTE: alban

And thereby implying that Keyen's behaviour is not scummy?
You realise the contradiction?

You misinterpret my post.
In a past game, I said "I feel like lynchbait rn". Scum said "why would town post this?" and voted me.

Let's play this game.
Do you believe Keyen is scummy or not?

[alban]

Spoiler:

Consider this my defence-cum-advice in case I am not alive:

One advice to the townies among you on the wagon: The q you should be asking, did he really become aggressive as is being perpetrated, and if yes, why would he do that? Was there a need for him to? Was he in a difficult place to begin with?
But if you come to the conclusion that there was nothing aggressive about his post, and that it was just a joke, and somehow a joke was spun out of proportion, then the obvious q you would be asking,

who did that?

You should read posts around mine to get that.

But that's less interesting.

More interesting will be to analyse the wagon. It's night here, so it is possible that I could be lynched by the time I am up. If I flip scum, well you have nothing to worry. Good for

finding me out so easily.

But if I flip town, this is a valuable info. Look at who is on my wagon. And look at their reasons

Transcend:

Votes for me coz I suggested not voting for a newbie like Cracker. I agree, so scummy. A scum!me will of course try to dissuade you from voting someone else.

Dave:

Hasn't voted yet, but suspects me for suggesting not to vote for Cracker coz I am Cracker's partner. So scummy of me. A scum!me will of course try to dissuade you from voting for my partner by urging you to vote for me

LQ:

Coz I am uppity to begin with, and his post-vote reaction (post-vote being the operative word) that I overreacted. So scummy of me. A scum!me will be openly arrogant and feel threatened after receiving two votes. Like that's not contradictory.

Keyen:

Votes for me coz I misunderstood his suspicion of me as a vote. Mistake happened on my part, but Keyen thinks that was scummy and should be reprimanded with a vote. So scummy of me. A scum!me will deliberately try to count an extra vote, especially from a person I am suspecting.

Lethargy:

Who thinks I am bitter for having a vote on me. So scummy of me. A scum!me will be open with my bitterness for receiving one vote.

My guess, one scum here for sure. Hierarchy from scum to town:

LQ=Keyen

>

Lethargy=Dave

>

Transcend

LQ, given your experience, I am surprised you were so openly opportunistic. If you're a town, it's even more surprising. You have zero reason for voting me.
Same goes for Lethargy. Opportunistic. But not surprised looking at your joining date.
Keyen & Dave, I was anyway suspecting you, so this opportunism doesn't come as a surprise.
Transcend, why am I not surprised? Unpredictability is your second nature.

Finally, just to make you aware what my contribution has been to the game, for you to think if a scum would do that:
1. I thought Keyen is fake and constantly questioned him. Look at my ISO. Look at our interaction. I persisted with my suspicion despite any wagon.
2. I thought newer, weaker or absentee players should not be targetted on day 1. They can be scum, but their lynches don't tell us anything. Plus, having a weaker scum in the later parts is okay. Multiple cases in point. I opposed voting against Eric, Cracker, Lethargy.
3. I didn't want Gamma to replace coz a slot becomes fuzzy once taken over by a different person. I pursuaded Gamma to come back. It's a small thing, but a scum would want chaos in the game. I wanted more order in the game.

P-edit:
Keyen: If I am scummy for appearing bitter, frustrated or childish, I guess I must be Coz perceptions are everything, right? Just one more q for you (I seem to have an endless supply for you): tell me what are you gonna do when I flip town? Who will be your top contenders for being scums (and I want the town to listen to his answer carefully). Keyen, you realise

you are going to be under scrutiny

, right? If you are scum, you are doomed coz a townflip was suspecting you. If you are town (yes, believe it or not, but despite all my pressure, I do entertain that possibility), the scum is gonna make the town go against you. Whether town or scum, you are screwed baby.

LQ: My posts around the one Transcend vote started as a joke, but

you made sure that it snowballed

. Most of my recent comments have been lighthearted, including the posthumous remark. For you to not see the light side of it is weird. But given that you do not see that, and given that I am at L-2, I would like to see the positive side of the wagon rather than be negative about it. So, to answer your comment, no, the wagon

didn't begin

as a move to assist the city, but now that

it's built, why not use it for something better

like finding scum. If I am anyway gonna be lynched for a stray remark, I rather caution town what to do once I am gone.

This post seems extremely contrived. Why are you even considering the possibility you are scum?

Coz for a defence to be complete, it needs to include situations which are imagined by the person who is accusing you.

[alban]

Spoiler:

After my pattern review, I find your answer to my question to be indicative of scum. Last time someone pushed someone on that "town would make comments about themselves like that" basis they were scum.
VOTE: alban

And thereby implying that Keyen's behaviour is not scummy?
You realise the contradiction?

You misinterpret my post.
In a past game, I said "I feel like lynchbait rn". Scum said "why would town post this?" and voted me.

Let's play this game.
Do you believe Keyen is scummy or not?

I feel he plays in a way that gets him scumread by opportunistic scum, from when I was scum with him town. However he could be scum, but I feel your argument against him is likely to come from scum, more likely than he is to be.

Possible. But how is that an argument against town!me finding something about scum!Keyen in this game? Or are you averse to that possibility?

[alban]

Spoiler:

Consider this my defence-cum-advice in case I am not alive:

One advice to the townies among you on the wagon: The q you should be asking, did he really become aggressive as is being perpetrated, and if yes, why would he do that? Was there a need for him to? Was he in a difficult place to begin with?
But if you come to the conclusion that there was nothing aggressive about his post, and that it was just a joke, and somehow a joke was spun out of proportion, then the obvious q you would be asking,

who did that?

You should read posts around mine to get that.

But that's less interesting.

More interesting will be to analyse the wagon. It's night here, so it is possible that I could be lynched by the time I am up. If I flip scum, well you have nothing to worry. Good for

finding me out so easily.

But if I flip town, this is a valuable info. Look at who is on my wagon. And look at their reasons

Transcend:

Votes for me coz I suggested not voting for a newbie like Cracker. I agree, so scummy. A scum!me will of course try to dissuade you from voting someone else.

Dave:

Hasn't voted yet, but suspects me for suggesting not to vote for Cracker coz I am Cracker's partner. So scummy of me. A scum!me will of course try to dissuade you from voting for my partner by urging you to vote for me

LQ:

Coz I am uppity to begin with, and his post-vote reaction (post-vote being the operative word) that I overreacted. So scummy of me. A scum!me will be openly arrogant and feel threatened after receiving two votes. Like that's not contradictory.

Keyen:

Votes for me coz I misunderstood his suspicion of me as a vote. Mistake happened on my part, but Keyen thinks that was scummy and should be reprimanded with a vote. So scummy of me. A scum!me will deliberately try to count an extra vote, especially from a person I am suspecting.

Lethargy:

Who thinks I am bitter for having a vote on me. So scummy of me. A scum!me will be open with my bitterness for receiving one vote.

My guess, one scum here for sure. Hierarchy from scum to town:

LQ=Keyen

>

Lethargy=Dave

>

Transcend

LQ, given your experience, I am surprised you were so openly opportunistic. If you're a town, it's even more surprising. You have zero reason for voting me.
Same goes for Lethargy. Opportunistic. But not surprised looking at your joining date.
Keyen & Dave, I was anyway suspecting you, so this opportunism doesn't come as a surprise.
Transcend, why am I not surprised? Unpredictability is your second nature.

Finally, just to make you aware what my contribution has been to the game, for you to think if a scum would do that:
1. I thought Keyen is fake and constantly questioned him. Look at my ISO. Look at our interaction. I persisted with my suspicion despite any wagon.
2. I thought newer, weaker or absentee players should not be targetted on day 1. They can be scum, but their lynches don't tell us anything. Plus, having a weaker scum in the later parts is okay. Multiple cases in point. I opposed voting against Eric, Cracker, Lethargy.
3. I didn't want Gamma to replace coz a slot becomes fuzzy once taken over by a different person. I pursuaded Gamma to come back. It's a small thing, but a scum would want chaos in the game. I wanted more order in the game.

P-edit:
Keyen: If I am scummy for appearing bitter, frustrated or childish, I guess I must be Coz perceptions are everything, right? Just one more q for you (I seem to have an endless supply for you): tell me what are you gonna do when I flip town? Who will be your top contenders for being scums (and I want the town to listen to his answer carefully). Keyen, you realise

you are going to be under scrutiny

, right? If you are scum, you are doomed coz a townflip was suspecting you. If you are town (yes, believe it or not, but despite all my pressure, I do entertain that possibility), the scum is gonna make the town go against you. Whether town or scum, you are screwed baby.

LQ: My posts around the one Transcend vote started as a joke, but

you made sure that it snowballed

. Most of my recent comments have been lighthearted, including the posthumous remark. For you to not see the light side of it is weird. But given that you do not see that, and given that I am at L-2, I would like to see the positive side of the wagon rather than be negative about it. So, to answer your comment, no, the wagon

didn't begin

as a move to assist the city, but now that

it's built, why not use it for something better

like finding scum. If I am anyway gonna be lynched for a stray remark, I rather caution town what to do once I am gone.

This post seems extremely contrived. Why are you even considering the possibility you are scum?

Coz for a defence to be complete, it needs to include situations which are imagined by the person who is accusing you.

The problem is you seem to be giving TOO MUCH credit to the possibility of you being scum.

Point out. 'Too much' is way too vague.

[alban]

I got what I wanted

UNVOTE: alban

What exactly did you want? And what did you get?

I wanted to see how you would react when I pissed you off.

btw, if you were interested in my reaction, and assuming you got and saw what you wanted (coz you unvoted me), why did you press Transcend on his unvote?

[alban]

this is the chain of events:
transcend unvoted.
you questioned him.
Keyen unvoted.
You unvoted.
You justifying your vote and subsequent unvote as a sort of a test.
So, 2 questions for you:
1. Why would you question Transcend if it was a test and I passed?
2. Why didn't you unvote me immediately after reading my post if it was indeed a test? Why wait for 2 people to unvote before unvoting yourself?

[alban]

Good for

finding me out so easily.

This was unnecessary and feels a bit self-indulgent.

How is one sentence in the loooong post 'TOO MUCH'?

[alban]

If Gamma were present at the time, I would be at L-1 now.
So, I don't believe for one second your reason for keeping up the act. If you are a town, your playacting would have cost the town an unnecessary casualty.
But let's suppose you are right.
What conclusions have you drawn about the wagon?

[alban]

Disappointed with this game, tbh.
The game is replete with lack of logic.

One person did this in one game once upon a time.

Hence everyone who does this must be a town or a scum.

I could understand the three scums saying this, playing knowingly ignorant. How can majority of the players have no semblance of logic?
Have you guys no clue about how trends are drawn?

Minimum sample size?

Remember?
I would welcome an implication based on logic, even with a false premise and a fake one. I also

understand gut and intuition

. But when the whole premise is one person, one game, one time, how do you counter that? It's like a fool making an idiotic comment and implicating you. You replying to it makes it worse coz you seem to be defending yourself, all the while entering deeper waters, when all you are doing is put some sense into the accuser's head. The worst is when people

sheep such illogical ppl

.

Just to clear some points:

1. No

I don't know Cracker

. Just look at her joining date. Unless you are suggesting that I know her from outside the game, which I do not. This is my first game with her. This is just one example of extrapolation gone haywire.
I have maintained that I and rest of the town should not to go after players like Cracker, Lethargy and Scum deers coz they are new, they must be overwhelmed, they will make mistakes, and this reflects in their weird responses or lack of content when they post, or being awol.

Even if they are scum

, it's alright to have such a weak scum in the game. Additionally, what does it tell you when you lynch them? Whether they flip town or scum, they are like

lone wolves

without connections, giving away no extra information. Instead, go after stronger players (which is why I took my name. Another joke. It was a joke coz no one was scum-reading me at the moment, except Keyen who was OMGUS-ing. There was no need for me to suggest backing off from newer/weaker players, and there was no need for me to suggest voting for me instead. 'Heroic' someone said. Really? You people couldn't see that I was treating myself as a representative of the SE/IC group, and was suggesting that anyone from that group would be fine?). If some of you are town and think that this is a scummy behaviour, I assume your scum game must be pretty average for you to think that scum divert attention from someone like that.

2. My comments page 19 and thereafter were

made in jest

. To spice things up. Have some laughs. Play a court jester. I had a heightened expectation of the collective IQ. I was wrong about it. It snowballed. People who voted or suspected me: Transcend, Dave, LQ, Gamma, Keyen, ssbm, Lethargy. Even if I think that all 3 of the scums are on this wagon, it is disconcerting that more than 50% of the town on this wagon has no logical process to voting. Confidence in your reads is good as long as the process is logical. Hell, even gut is fine, as long as you leave a

scope for doubt and reconsideration

. But you guys are behaving like a

mob let loose

. While voting, you don't ascertain if your vote is for valid reasons. You don't question me after voting. How else are you going to know if I am really a scum or not? Fine. The wagon starts building. What's your opinion about that? Nothing. Even if I am scum, do you analyse the wagon? No. People who built the wagon can't do VCA. Then why build it? All you folks did last 5 pages was to question the motivation behind my posts. 3 of you can be knowingly ignorant. Majority of you doing this? That shows me that it's a bad assemblage of players who really dont know how to play. I am sorry if this seems 'abrasive'. But it's true. You are sheeps. Plain and simple.

3. You want to know how I play as scum? Visit

Open 637

. There are two players here from that game. Ask them. See how I play as scum. And then draw your conclusions. There's a second game with me as scum, but I can't talk about it since it's ongoing. It's all there in my meta. There's another player here from that game.
In case you don't wanna take the effort, but rely on my word, this is how I play as scum: I am very careful as a scum. I am very friendly, very thorough, very detailed, and very indirect, in both positive and negative interactions. I will do absolutely nothing to catch attention. And hence, there's no way I will be lynched as a scum. The only way for me to die as a scum is by night kill action of the non-scum fraction. Even if I say so myself, I am very good as a scum.
I am confident that even a sub-intelligent person will agree that my style this game has been anything but.

If I were a mafia, there is no way you will catch me.

And if you are able to do that, what does that mean? Think about it.

I don't regret one bit for being patronising. You guys deserve it.

[alban]

This is the third time you are voting for him.
Looks like you are voting for him coz you have no read on anyone else. Is that right?

[alban]

Do you not suspect me anymore btw?

[alban]

Just showing some of you mirror for your unsubstantiated playing style.

[alban]

No lynch is not an option.
I can vote someone between Toto, ssbm, Dave and Keyen. In no particular order. Reasons? These are capable slots but mostly awol.

[alban]

Why not LQ

Everyone else is either present or a weak slot.

[alban]

I'm so sick of the word "

gut

"

Let's lynch Keyen for mainstreaming the word

[alban]

Thank god, I am finally being considered a townie (even if arguably so)
There are many scummy things happening in this game, that it's difficult to keep track.
I will get to it shortly. Right now, I have zero motivation. Maybe by evening.

[alban]

If you guys have played with him before, why are you saying nothing about his style then vs now?

For example, I have played with both you and Gamma, and I see absolutely no difference in when you are town vs now. This is not a big tell-all obviously, but it still is a minor tell.

[alban]

Scumhunting is not working in this game.
Let's start with townreads.
Aubrey is being townread universally. Why?
LQ, Transcend, Toto and Keyen have been especially confident in their townreads of Aubrey.
Would like everyone, especially these 4, to list their reasons for their reads on Aubrey.
I find him null. Everything he has done is NAI. If you think otherwise, feel free to contradict.

[alban]

On Transcend.
I have 1 finished game with him and 1-2 unfinished ones.
He is playing just the same.
Hence the townlean on him.
However, must admit that he is so brief in his comments, that it's easier to maintain your facade of either alignment. Hence, the townlean is very very slight.

[alban]

These have been the broad two thoughts.
On everyone else, I will now start reading last 15 pages.
Everything before that is probably immaterial.
Whoever thinks they are struggling with their reads, should probably do that same to get a perspective. Especially the inactive slots. I can defend you only so much. And I must admit, slots of Lethargy, ScumDeers, Chilled, Keyen, ssbm, Cracker, Dave and Toto to some extent - you guys have been way less involved. That's half the number of players. Show some bloody involvement.

[alban]

In a world gone awry, its the unassuming who survive.

Elaborate please.

[alban]

Is that an overall impression or do you have particular posts in mind?
imo, he is directing suspicion in all possible directions. And has both null as well as town things to say about every player. He is also pushing the absent slots, which I don't understand. While that's not particularly scummy, I don't understand her playing style.
So explain why he is 'showing most effort to gamesolve'.

[alban]

Also, I will be judging you 4 from your reads on Aubrey. So make it more specific.
Scum find it easy to declare one or a few players as conf!town imo.

[alban]

On Transcend.
I have 1 finished game with him and 1-2 unfinished ones.
He is playing just the same.
Hence the townlean on him.
However, must admit that he is so brief in his comments, that it's easier to maintain your facade of either alignment. Hence, the townlean is very very slight.

I was scum in our completed game.

Are you sure I'm town?

You have so few words to type that it all seems the same to me.
I cannot distinguish between the scum and town you atm.
No, I am not sure about you being town.
I had forgotten that you were scum in our last game. Of course. You were the Ice goon. I am checking it.

[alban]

You used to write longer and more elaborate posts.
Is that coz you were a scum then, or something else (experience, replacement, developing a new style, etc.)?

[alban]

I was super tryhard that game but that's bc i really got in to it. I'm not extremely in to this game.

But the last few games where we played/are playing together, you have been just the same as in this game.

[alban]

Also, what do you think about Aubrey and why are you townreading her?

[alban]

*Him

[alban]

Thought so.
What can we do to increase your interest here?

[alban]

???! Alban doesn't like my pushes on the inactive, but turns tail and bitches about how inactive they are and need to bloody well play the game. Alban forgets who in the hell ive been pushing the most as if recent. Hint: he has posted the most this game. Reading Transcend based on meta isn't smart. He purposely plays ambiguous for a reason.

'Turn tail', 'Bitching'...This is no way to talk. Your language leaves a lot to be desired and you need to tone it down.

Now that that's done, tell me, do you find anyone's town read of you particularly suspicious? For example, Toto did a bad job of providing reasons for town-reading you, tbh. Others haven't even taken that effort. The reads this game, whether town or scum, seem like sheeping than genuinely due to a reason.

[alban]

Doesn't matter.

[alban]

Now that there are 5 days to end, would like to finalise things a bit.
Don't wanna lynch anyone among Aubrey, Transcend, LQ. They are active and taking the game fwd in their own ways.
Don't wanna lynch Chilled or ssbm. They seem capable. I would like to see them on day 2.
Don't wanna lynch Lethargy, Scum Deers, Cracker. I wanna see them on day 2 too.
Am fine with lynching among Keyen, Gamma, Dave or Toto.

[alban]

You are kinda right. But I somehow trust Transcend's cryptic posts more than Gamma's.
There's no logic to this. Or maybe there is. Can't explain.

[alban]

I'm not changing my vote.
I believe Transcend to be scum.
Not wanting to lynch someone because they're active is a shitty reason to basically town read someone.

The third line was about that post someone made about who they'd be fine lynching and who not and why, etc.

Someone...Circuitous much?
It's still a lot more than what you are doing, Dave, and I rather have active suspicious players than capable but inactive suspicious players in the next round.

[alban]

Read last 5 pages.

Spoiler:

I feel this game is not going anywhere without more people involved.

My town read on key went stale. I think he is a good player but he is not putting too much thought or effort in this game. Given the game state is probably NAI but it is not helping either.

From the less active players I like chill the most.

I'n on vla for next 2 days.

UNVOTE:

Toto, on one hand, you are saying you want to take the game fwd. On the other hand, you are saying anything is possible, and people could be either town or scum (as if there's a third possibility). And finally, you are unvoting.
Either this or that or the whole universe kinda posts are sketchy.

Spoiler:

Sheeping Transcend as in voting for the player you're voting for, since I'm not sure if you're scum, even though this is the most suspicious I've been of you since you mislynched me in 1850 (and I was wrong about you that time)

Like I originally said I'll probably sheep transcend by deadline if my reread doesn't dig anything up. I'm planning on doing my dig after work tonight. Just because others who are null reads to me don't see my top SR getting lynched does not mean I will unvote them. If I had strong townreads on several people who all were saying alban is town and I'm wrong I would consider unvoting until I dug through the game. There has been such a lack of activity in this game by so many slots that it is difficult to establish reads with any real value to them, because not everyone is interacting with one another. Without first doing my deep note-taking I'd say LQ is my only TR.

I think alban is scum. If alban is scum, Transcend is scum with him. Transcend is a likely target for a NK if he's town though, so I don't see any merit in lynching Transcend before alban, since he is only conditionally scum with alban imo. Transcend, as town, has good reads. This is why I would be willing to sheep him by the deadline. I want to take a close look at toto during my reread tonight though, since he seems to be pinging people and Transcend has FoSed him this game.

He still has his vote on alban from what the vc tells me, which is a waste of a vote at this point since I don't see him getting lynched.

This is all warped logic, but not scummy.
Openly admitting that he has no reads is townie.
Not gonna vote for ssbm.

Spoiler:

I feel like a lot of all the conversations that are happening are happening with town themselves and scum are just hiding amongst lurkers.

My scum read on lethargy is very big and while alban might think that we don't get information from their lynch, we will get info from NK regardless and there is a great chance of getting a scum catch from it.

Also after all this I am still null-ish on ssbm - I haven't a read on him. Key was a town read earlier on during his interactions with, I think aubrey???

I am also fine with a gamma lynch but it is sad that there is little information on cracker, deer, who have basically done nothing. Deer's initial post was definitely scummy as someone else pointed it out.

Lynching LQ would be very bad for the game state if he is town, whereas if he is scum we can take care of it later on as well. At the moment I don't see the scum-LQ angle.

Transcend is being transcend I rather not lynch him for being silly. I don't think he is scum.

We will get info from NK regardless of whom we kill. My suggestion will be to let the replacements come in. Maybe they will do a good job.
Agree with you on LQ, Gamma and Transcend.
What are your views on Aubrey?

[alban]

I thought you said you voted for me due to my reaction to the wagon on me.
Now you are saying you scum!read me coz I persisted with keyen? Why is that scummy according to you?

[alban]

Spoiler:

That is what I said and that is why I voted you. I had been watching your push on keyen for about a day iirc and then I went to bed and woke up to all those pages where the wagon formed and died already, and after reading all that I decided that you were a more serious candidate than keyen.

I began developing a scumread on alban for how hard he was pushing keyen, partly because I know that keyen is a player that is easy to push. The way alban reacted to that quick wagon with LQ and Transcend voting and unvoting in succession made him look scummier and I thought that one of LQ or Transcend would be scum with him.

These are the posts that made me reconsider if alban's push on keyen was genuine

Lol. I am not Active Lurking.

Your words against my reads. Any guesses, which one will I trust more?

I don't wanna appear patronising, especially if you are town, but surely there's something more that you could be doing with your posts?

Keyen, i am scum reading you at the moment. If you are a town, you should try to answer rather than getting defensive n omgusing n discrediting me, coz your answers can help me look elsewhere. You being defensive isn't helping the situation. My q are fairly straightfwd.
1. Why is aubrey your first real town read?
2. What does null scum mean according to you, and why am i nullscum?

A third q springs to mind.
3. You said you are null/townreading everyone except me n ssbm. We are also the only two who are suspecting you.

Is there a cause-effect relationship between who is suspecting you and whom you are suspecting?

You guys realise that this kind of wagon isn't going to work on someone like Cracker, right?
Most likely she will give up or come up with an outlandish post, which will further confirm your suspicions on her.

Plus, lynching her isn't gonna be useful in any way.
Keyen is a better choice

. Look at his posts. There's a lot more scope for improvement there. And they are capable of giving a defence.

The bolded are what jumped out at me. The questions in the first two quotes feel rhetorical/antagonistic rather than feeling like genuine attempts to clear a suspect. The third quote tells people a Cracker lynch is useless (probably true, they haven't said much) and to vote keyen instead

ssbm, rehash of these posts show what an opportunist you are, or how badly you are tunnelled.

[alban]

VOTE: Toto

[alban]

It will be nice t have a defence from you Toto.
That will require asking people why they are voting for you, and how you are not what they think you are.
If you ask me, I have no solid explicable reason for voting for you, but I have even less of a reason for voting others.
This is really lame on my part. Sorry. I shouldn't be saying this for boosting the morale of scums, but I will still say this. I feel clueless right now. My vote right now is very very lightweight. But I am gonna do exactly what I do in such moments. I am not gonna think that I am wrong, I am gonna push whoever - however lightweight they appear - appears the scummiest to me and vote for them. Self-doubt is the worst kind of state for a town to be in, and I can't be doing that.

[alban]

What's so unusual?

[alban]

Aubrey, lynch someone who will give you maximum information, whichever way they flip. Without severely jeopardizing the town in case they flip town.
For me, that's either Toto, Ganma, ssbm and Keyen.

[alban]

Aubrey, lynch someone who will give you maximum information, whichever way they flip. Without severely jeopardizing the town in case they flip town.
For me, that's either Toto, Ganma, ssbm and Keyen.

.....

and it happens I am voting one of your options, sooooo. Yea. Why you're telling me this, Idk.

I was getting a little bit shaky on the Toto wagon. Didn't seem it was getting much resistance what so ever, and built kinda fast, but that has changed somewhat. I mostly voted him since I felt like he was pushing easier players, and looking busy w/o dealing with other affairs that were going on much. Furthermore, I remembered other players saying they were suspicious of him, but never actually voted him really. Seemed kinda strange. I was shocked when Transcend and LQ joined shortly after my vote.

Now that it is has gained traction, and had what felt like decent resistance,...it seems like a viable lynch to learn something from.

I'd like to have a lynch sooner rather than later. Maybe one more day of talk, but really I'd like to not get down to the wire on this. Hopefully by day 2 the other empty slots will be replaced or back in action.

Thought you were getting a bit shaky with your confidence in your vote on Toto.

[alban]

Aubrey, lynch someone who will give you maximum information, whichever way they flip. Without severely jeopardizing the town in case they flip town.
For me, that's either Toto, Ganma, ssbm and Keyen.

Do you have finals around this time? Is that why you have been less active?

Thank god, no! A demanding job though.
What would you have me do? Let's bounce off ideas on the famous four: Toto, Key, Dave and ssbm.
Who do you think is the most likely to be scum?
I voted for Toto coz I don't mind lynching him and a wagon was building. And coz his reasons pro- and against- certain players have been shaky. It's arguable whether that's a good enough reason to vote, but in absence of anything more for anyone, I am going with that.
Why did you unvote?

[alban]

We need a vote count.

Also, I ignore all flawed logic.

Dave, what's your stance on scummiest people in the game? Who are they and why?

[alban]

Mod, in view of all these replacements, extend the deadline maybe?

[alban]

Spoiler:

Aubrey, lynch someone who will give you maximum information, whichever way they flip. Without severely jeopardizing the town in case they flip town.
For me, that's either Toto, Ganma, ssbm and Keyen.

Do you have finals around this time? Is that why you have been less active?

Thank god, no! A demanding job though.
What would you have me do?

IDK, just keep making quality posts, I guess.

Let's bounce off ideas on the famous four: Toto, Key, Dave and ssbm. Who do you think is the most likely to be scum?

In order of Scummy:

Toto - I've had my issues with him. I don't like peoples playstyle that don't post very often. That's not why I think he is Scummiest though. I think he is Scummiest because of the stances he has made mostly.
Dave (new) - Has done pretty much nothing this game for someone who ignores illogical posts.
Key - Key hasn't really made any strong stances this whole game. This is concerning because he's not a newb.
ssbm - I just read their posts as Townie even though they are wrong on a decent amount of things. Can't point out specific things, but that's just what I get reading their posts.

I voted for Toto coz I don't mind lynching him and a wagon was building. And coz his reasons pro- and against- certain players have been shaky. It's arguable whether that's a good enough reason to vote, but in absence of anything more for anyone, I am going with that.
Why did you unvote?

What's his name made some good points, so I know he is not a complete dult, crazy player. I don't think I want to lynch him today. I'd like to see what kind of stances he makes when he's caught up.

Cracker was never on my list, so I am not much bothered about the replacement. He is all over the place and this behaviour is more harmful than helpful, so close to the deadline. Elicits all sorts of different thoughts in different people, leading to mayhem. In any case, as far as I remember, he is after Gamma, and I dunno if I am gonna go after Gamma, coz there's literally nothing Gamma has done this game.

I didn't like this post by you. You have absolutely nothing even on your scummiest (Toto). But the way you are passing it off is as if it's their problem, not yours.

[alban]

I feel crazy for saying this, but I am reconsidering my Town read on Aubre.

I always questioned why so many of you town read him. No satisfactory answers. I am glad you are waking up ti the possibility.

[alban]

Bet you've been dying to hear someone say those words. LOL.

I was. Absolutely. Coz no one has answers or very weak reasons (e.g. Toto) as to why they are townreading you. Which means it's at a level of impressions. To have a strong, universal townread due to weak or impressionistic reasons is not good at all.

[alban]

Coz no one has answers or very weak reasons (e.g. Toto)

Explain why my reasons are weak. I admit that most of it is based on impressions but I don't consider my reasons weak.

You aren't able to explain your reasons or impressions very well.
Your 768 is way too emphatic in conclusions, and 779 is not a good enough evidence to back such an emphatic townread on her. In fact, you are watering it down by saying, this doesn't mean she is town etc etc.

Whether Aubrey ir town or not is one thing, but I think it's easier as a scum to pass verdicts on people, especially townreads, and when questioned about these reads, nothing solid to point.

[alban]

Vedith, you have the same avatar as Transcend?!

[alban]

@alban

Are you purposely ignoring me?

There's no reason to ignore you.
Please read my last couple of posts. I have mentioned that there are 2-3 other players, apart from you, whom I find suspicious. And I voted for Toto and not you coz there was a wagon on him. If there was a wagon on you, I could vote for you too.

[alban]

Maybe. But not scummily opportunist.

[alban]

Spoiler:

Your 768 is way too emphatic in conclusions, and 779 is not a good enough evidence to back such an emphatic townread on her. In fact, you are watering it down by saying, this doesn't mean she is town etc etc.

That post by itself is not evidence enough but combined with their general attitude of trying to sort things out, and a few other posts that I have liked, is what is giving me a town read. You can always find ways to refute whatever I will point out. I find it a lot easier and effective to townhunt than to scumhunt and I don't think Aubrey is a good lynch today. If you have something to convince me otherwise please do so.

Coz no one has answers or very weak reasons (e.g. Toto)

Explain why my reasons are weak. I admit that most of it is based on impressions but I don't consider my reasons weak.

You aren't able to explain your reasons or impressions very well.
Your 768 is way too emphatic in conclusions, and 779 is not a good enough evidence to back such an emphatic townread on her. In fact, you are watering it down by saying, this doesn't mean she is town etc etc.

Whether Aubrey ir town or not is one thing, but I think it's easier as a scum to pass verdicts on people, especially townreads, and when questioned about these reads, nothing solid to point.

My 1261 should already convey to you how I am convinced that Aubrey isn't a good lynch as of now, but how I am using your townread on him as a means to test your towniness.

[alban]

Maybe. But not scummily opportunist.

Depends your reasons for scum reading either.

The context would be obvious if you read the last few pages or ISO me.

[alban]

Scumhunting is not working in this game.
Let's start with townreads.
Aubrey is being townread universally. Why?

LQ, Transcend, Toto and Keyen

have been especially confident in their townreads of Aubrey.
Would like everyone, especially these 4, to list their reasons for their reads on Aubrey.
I find him null. Everything he has done is NAI. If you think otherwise, feel free to contradict.

Also I find it weird that it was you that started this movement and I was the pretty much the only one that answered your question from that group, and you chose to focus on me. Why are you not questioning the rest?

I agree with you about this.
But out of these 4 names, I would be comfy voting out only you or Keyen, coz you strike the right balance of activity (giving rise to associative reads tomorrow) and inactivity (I won't be kicking myself if you flip town). The other 2 are way too active for me to not blame myself if they flip town.
And that's why I can vote out Keyen too if a wagon doesn't generate on you, which it has btw. So I guess others are finding you scummy too.

[alban]

Okay 1280 is good enough for me because scum!Toto flip makes me less suspicious of alban and by extension Trans, LQ, whereas with Dave, I don't think there was much to get out of a flip.
VOTE: toto

Pedit: Also he's testing Toto's towniness, not yours

What do you mean by 'scum!Toto flip makes me less suspicious of alban'?
You suspect me, but you would vote for someone whom I am suspecting. Shouldn't you be wary of voting Toto just coz I am suspecting him?
Also, why are you not pushing a Dave wagon instead?

[alban]

I don't remember saying activity is AI.
But yeah activity has an impact on whom I will vote at this point in the game where there's not much difference in my sr and tr.

[alban]

So far my strongest lead has been Dave. I have tried to get answers from him but he is just avoiding the game. I summarized my case here: 1042.

Gamma has pinged me and I have questioned her but I think it is just their play-style.

Alban is pining me now, but I may be omgsing. Ever since he was wagoned and was TR by a few people (me included) he took a back sit and is keeping a low profile. We don't have PRs so I don't know why he would do that. His vote on me is very comfortable since he doesn't really provide a strong reason to keep it there and I feel he is tricking me with this town read business.

p-edit. My activity (number of posts) is low but I have provided content. I don't like posting fluff.

You are indeed omgusing. coz I have been on your case since long. Just hadn't voted for you.
I have openly admitted that I don't have enough motivation this game. Partly due to just a few slots doing a lot of spdework and others lying low, and partly due to my own blurred radar. Day 2 might be better and that's the only reason I haven't replaced out.
My vote on you is not comfortable, but an unfortunate one. It happens to sit there coz no one else between ssbm, Keyen, and Dave are talking. And as you said, the one who is talking i.e. is becoming the bait.
This is why I don't like ssbm's U-turn about you.
I also don't like how suddenly there're 6 votes on you. I think that itself should be an indicator of something. Help me out Vedith and LQ of you think that generating such a quick wagon on someone can absolve them of a scumread.

[alban]

However, Alban is pinging me so far, i'll check his ISO first later.

There has already been a wagon on me once this game, around page 19. Check it out first.

[alban]

I don't remember saying activity is AI.
But yeah activity has an impact on whom I will vote at this point in the game where there's not much difference in my sr and tr.

Using activity to determine your vote is stupid.
It gives scum a free pass with posting shit to avoid a lynch.
I don't see how you think that this is good?

This is the nth time I am explaining this.
I don't wanna vote out the inactive slots coz their flip gives us zero info. Also, their replacements might be better (as proved so in your case), and we would have something to by on those slots by their posts directly, rather than a circuitous and oft-wrong reason (lack of activity) of eliminating someone.
I also don't wanna vote out the active slots like Aubrey, Transcend and LQ, partly coz nothing glaringly scummy jumps out from their posts and meta, and I rather have them in the game coz they are the only 3 slots who are somewhat active this game.
So, my vote will be on mid-level active ones. That's why Toto, Keyen, ssbm and Dave. Maybe Gamma. It helps that their posts and actions have also been scummy enough for me to have no guilt in voting for them. Like Toto's lack of emphatic townread, Keyen's lack of reads even after having spent 5 months here, ssbm's sudden U-turns, etc.

[alban]

Help me out Vedith and LQ of you think that generating such a quick wagon on someone can absolve them of a scumread.

Personally I see wagon resistance as more of a tell rather than wagon speed.

Meaning? Opposite sides of the same coin, aren't they?

[alban]

He is at L-1

[alban]

UNVOTE:

[alban]

yeah, I was town.

This was a very frustrating game tbh I'm glad I'm out of it.

This is probably the most you have done this game to prove you are a town.
Stop blaming me. I neither created the wagon on you, neither did I asked others to join me.
This is my style. I was the same with Keyen. I persist.
Irresponsible of you to blame me for questioning you. Think if you would want my game the same way with other players. If you wouldn't mind me persisting with others, you shouldn't mind me persisting with you.

Voting for Dave. His flip is gonna give shit as info, but okay if that's what all of you want, so be it. I officially hate this game now.
VOTE: Dave

[alban]

*did I ask

[alban]

Lynch me for being inactive instead of someone who can give us information.
Real smart.

So you are reading, but you have nothing more to say in the game?

[alban]

yeah, I was town.

This was a very frustrating game tbh I'm glad I'm out of it.

This is probably the most you have done this game to prove you are a town.
Stop blaming me. I neither created the wagon on you, neither did I asked others to join me.
This is my style. I was the same with Keyen. I persist.
Irresponsible of you to blame me for questioning you. Think if you would want my game the same way with other players. If you wouldn't mind me persisting with others, you shouldn't mind me persisting with you.

Voting for Dave. His flip is gonna give shit as info, but okay if that's what all of you want, so be it. I officially hate this game now.
VOTE: Dave

A bit of an overreaction... He just said he was frustrated. Nothing he said was going to change anybodies mind, so it was understandable to be frustrated. I don't understand the blow up here.

That "mis-hammer" was odd though. @Transcend and @Toto: Why didnt ya'll check the votes before believing it was a hammer? After I posted my last post, I went back and double checked just to make sure during lunch. I just feel like there should have been some double checking there on someone's part... A+ move if you are scum Toto. That being said, I've often F'ed up L1's and L2's before myself.

I agree about my reaction. A bit ott. But I was frustrated. See, how ssbm is jumping easily from one queue to the other. See how Transcend, Vedith and others are spending pages discussing alts and the rules surrounding it, but can't contribute to the game. Like, really? Ok, this is again becoming an overreaction maybe. Just saying, we have a few hours, so lets get done with our votes.

Last page has votes on LQ, Toto and Dave. This isn;t helpful. Can people name 3-4 top suspects they wouldn't mind lynching? It is way easier to have a scum pool to choose from rather than voting, unvoting, and building wagons. Way too time consuming that.

p-edit: discussing avatars? now? is this the time to do this?

[alban]

Mine are Dave, ssbm, Gamma and Keyen.

[alban]

Vedith, nothing from you on my ISO.

[alban]

Transcend, do something in the game. Voting Deimos is not helpful.

[alban]

Iso-ing Dave

[alban]

There must be at least one scum there

[alban]

That might be more useful than checking aubrey's suspects. Funny think scum would kill him coz he was suspecting them correctly.

[alban]

Doubting my own trs now..chilled, transcend, Lq.

[alban]

Spoiler:

Day 1 VC 16

PsychoticDave: Toto, keyenpeydee, chilledtea, alban, LicketyQuickety, ssbm_Kyouko, Aubrey -

LYNCH

Toto: Transcend, PsychoticDave
LicketyQuickety: Gamma Emerald, KainTepes
Deimos27: Vedith

Not voting: Deimos27

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

I intend to do a VCA for d1 at some point as I catch up, but I'm dead tired right now from another thing (can't talk about it because of site rules). So that'll have to wait until another time.

For now, heres what I think on how scum would pattern here. At least one scum in the centre of the Dave wagon (common place for them to hide...)
So that's:
{chilled, alban, LQ, Kyouku}

As well as at least one outside the wagon (three scum and four town on the same wagon? I find it highly unlikely that psychology would allow them to bunch like that).
So that's:
{Transcend, Gamma, Kain, Vedith}

I'll start narrowing those down probably starting tomorrow or Sunday.

Talk more about narrowing down. How you gonna do that etc.

[alban]

Why these two in particular?

[alban]

Some thoughts:
Good thing yall decided to lynch dave d1. If yall didn't, I would expect him to be so useless when lylo comes.

Keyen, what do posts like these even mean?
11 players now. Lylo, even with 3 mafia alive, is a long way to go. Why are you thinking of a situation so far away, and why are you sure that dave would have been alive at that time?

My honest suggestion to you is to be more solid in what you post.

[alban]

I always doubt lq tbh

Have you played with him before?
Why do you doubt him?

Chilled, well I think his posts are pretty town but tbh i feel like there's something in it.

Can you elaborate? At least try?

[alban]

Day 1 VC 16

PsychoticDave: Toto, keyenpeydee, chilledtea, alban, LicketyQuickety, ssbm_Kyouko, Aubrey -

LYNCH

Toto: Transcend, PsychoticDave
LicketyQuickety: Gamma Emerald, KainTepes
Deimos27: Vedith

Not voting: Deimos27

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

I intend to do a VCA for d1 at some point as I catch up, but I'm dead tired right now from another thing (can't talk about it because of site rules). So that'll have to wait until another time.

For now, heres what I think on how scum would pattern here. At least one scum in the centre of the Dave wagon (common place for them to hide...)
So that's:
{chilled, alban, LQ, Kyouku}

As well as at least one outside the wagon (three scum and four town on the same wagon? I find it highly unlikely that psychology would allow them to bunch like that).
So that's:
{Transcend, Gamma, Kain, Vedith}

I'll start narrowing those down probably starting tomorrow or Sunday.

This is so outlandish, I would treat deimos a town.

[alban]

Deimos and keyenpeydee both scum.

@Mod - V/La until Sunday

You finding them scummy, is a bit weird and is scummy in itself.

P-edit: your verdicts are useless if you don't provide a reason.

[alban]

P-edit part is for lq

[alban]

yeah, I was town.

This was a very frustrating game tbh I'm glad I'm out of it.

This is the reason why toto's wagon deflated.
Someone thought he is at l-1, lq congress and votes, someone thinks l is reached, toto thinks so too, and confesses this.

Now three ppl - transcend, tepes and keyen - are again voting for toto. So you don't believe toto's claims on day 1? Why? I am tr-ing him and if you are doubting him without even questioning him, i wanna know why.

[alban]

Day 1 VC 16

PsychoticDave: Toto, keyenpeydee, chilledtea, alban, LicketyQuickety, ssbm_Kyouko, Aubrey -

LYNCH

Toto: Transcend, PsychoticDave
LicketyQuickety: Gamma Emerald, KainTepes
Deimos27: Vedith

Not voting: Deimos27

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

I intend to do a VCA for d1 at some point as I catch up, but I'm dead tired right now from another thing (can't talk about it because of site rules). So that'll have to wait until another time.

For now, heres what I think on how scum would pattern here. At least one scum in the centre of the Dave wagon (common place for them to hide...)
So that's:
{chilled, alban, LQ, Kyouku}

As well as at least one outside the wagon (three scum and four town on the same wagon? I find it highly unlikely that psychology would allow them to bunch like that).
So that's:
{Transcend, Gamma, Kain, Vedith}

I'll start narrowing those down probably starting tomorrow or Sunday.

This is so outlandish, I would treat deimos a town.

That's not really very outlandish at all. Being a townie on that lynch wagon makes it a bit easier to find scum since you know your own and Aubrey's alignments. Odd that he leaves Keyen out but puts me in though since we're equidistant to the center of the wagon where scum hide

You mean to say, you suspect deimos?
Keyen as a second voter and you as an l-2 voter could be considered a valid reason, equidistant argument notwithstanding.

[alban]

I mean putting you but not putting keyen is explicable.

[alban]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... g_Early_On

See "The Butter Zone". Now I thought the tell was votes 3 and up but it is actually 2 and keyen should be included. That's my bad.

But he himself doesn't believe that.
I dunno if he buckled under pressure which would make him a gullible townie, or if he deliberately chose to exclude keyen. But in that case, I can't imagine deimos n keyen being mafia together.

[alban]

Deimos and keyenpeydee both scum.

@Mod - V/La until Sunday

You finding them scummy, is a bit weird and is scummy in itself.

P-edit: your verdicts are useless if you don't provide a reason.

P-edit part is for lq

If you insist: Your post was way worse than Keyen's in that interaction.

Repeating yourself doesn't magically transform into reasoning.

[alban]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... g_Early_On

See "The Butter Zone". Now I thought the tell was votes 3 and up but it is actually 2 and keyen should be included. That's my bad.

But he himself doesn't believe that.
I dunno if he buckled under pressure which would make him a gullible townie, or if he deliberately chose to exclude keyen. But in that case, I can't imagine deimos n keyen being mafia together.

Is there a specific interaction that leads you to believe they can't be a scumteam?

I don't remember their d1 together. General feeling.
Are you suggesting they could be a scum team together, and that's the reason deimos has excluded keyen?

[alban]

Try to grasp that in a game where more than half the players are awol, there's zero relevance of talking about non-contributing players being useless during lylo and justifying someone's lynch based on that. Plus it's especially irksome that it's Keyen doing that...Hell, Keyen talking about non-contribution of Dave is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[alban]

You are so defensive Keyen that you have stopped listening to what I am saying. I have long left my scumread on you, if only you would bother to notice. I am asking you questions, and commenting on your posts to get some solid reads from you.

Let me try one last time though. For the n-th time, could you please recount your contribution to the game? Tell me what have you done. You are a serial flaker. You promise you will come back with reads and analyses, and yet there's nothing. You did that again on day 2, even though the day has just begun. Taking the context of your comments on Dave, let me ask you this: Since your contribution is zero, is that a good enough reason to lynch you, citing how you would still be alive at lylo coz you pose no threat to the scum, and how you would be of no help? All this is rich coming from you about Dave coz all that you say about him holds true about you too. This is why I asked you to make more solid posts.

LQ, you are a certified moron for being a torchbearer for the uninitiated.

P-edit: And here comes another bomb from Keyen.

[alban]

Day 1 VC 16

PsychoticDave: Toto, keyenpeydee, chilledtea, alban, LicketyQuickety, ssbm_Kyouko, Aubrey -

LYNCH

Toto: Transcend, PsychoticDave
LicketyQuickety: Gamma Emerald, KainTepes
Deimos27: Vedith

Not voting: Deimos27

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

I intend to do a VCA for d1 at some point as I catch up, but I'm dead tired right now from another thing (can't talk about it because of site rules). So that'll have to wait until another time.

For now, heres what I think on how scum would pattern here. At least one scum in the centre of the Dave wagon (common place for them to hide...)
So that's:
{chilled, alban, LQ, Kyouku}

As well as at least one outside the wagon (three scum and four town on the same wagon? I find it highly unlikely that psychology would allow them to bunch like that).
So that's:
{Transcend, Gamma, Kain, Vedith}

I'll start narrowing those down probably starting tomorrow or Sunday.

This is so outlandish, I would treat deimos a town.

That's not really very outlandish at all. Being a townie on that lynch wagon makes it a bit easier to find scum since you know your own and Aubrey's alignments. Odd that he leaves Keyen out but puts me in though since we're equidistant to the center of the wagon where scum hide

Sure it's explicable, but I have the benefit of my role PM in this wagon's analysis. If I die, so will the rest of you. I said it was odd because it appears odd from my point of view. I don't mean to say I suspect deimos in that post, I mean what I said.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... g_Early_On

See "The Butter Zone". Now I thought the tell was votes 3 and up but it is actually 2 and keyen should be included. That's my bad.

But he himself doesn't believe that.
I dunno if he buckled under pressure which would make him a gullible townie, or if he deliberately chose to exclude keyen. But in that case, I can't imagine deimos n keyen being mafia together.

Is there a specific interaction that leads you to believe they can't be a scumteam?

Spoiler: kek

CUM HE TRULY IS

I won't infer that Deimos left Keyen out because they're a scumteam, I think it's more likely he just thinks the beginning of the wagon is less scummy than the end. If I ever saw a scum!deimos flip though I'd reconsider his motives.

Your 1540 to 1561 constitutes almost the entire universe of possibilities about the two of them.
What do you think about Deimos and Keyen, individually and together?

[alban]

Hi transcend.

VOTE : Transcend

This is no longer day 1 thank you very much.

To LQ, the reason why I have {vedith, LQ} is because there are only three scum, and such, not that you both cannot be scum together.

SSBM, please tell me about gamma's inconsistency if possible, through links and posts. I would like to look into that.

lol

Come on mate. Even you should be able to see how terrible your posts are. Be more involved. The only reason i am tr-ing you is your non chalance, and that's a lame reason to tr anyone.

[alban]

Seeing how disinterested half of the players are, I suggest either we quicklynch, or we forfeit by mass request for replacement. I don't wanna drag this for another two months.

[alban]

A reverse q to Chilled, ssbm and keyen and whoever else thinking gamma's turnaround on me is scummy:
Why would Gamma!scum change his read on me, so openly. What do you think was the need for scum him to tr me? Also, remember that two of you (ssbm and keyen) have yourselves changed your position on me with time. Why is gamma scummy but you are town?

[alban]

This is spiraling into a circus.

Mod, replace me.