Open 660 - White Flag (Game Over)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Gamma

Sup nerds and Transcend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Joke's gonna be on you when he gets an avatar before any new people tune into the thread

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Open a picture in any editor (did mine in Paint) and crop it to be close to square shaped. Then select your square shaped picture and right click>resize it. Make sure to check the box that says to keep the scale, then just resize it so that the longer side becomes the max size allowed on this site and your avatar will fit and look normal

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Double down Dave doubles down on his meme vote still without answering toto

VOTE: PsychoticDave

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE: oops that was l-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dave answer toto though or unvote yourself

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So is 81 one of the heads marking a post that they think the other head should pay attention to? First time playing with/reading a game with a hydra

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh duh I thought I didn't recognize Deimos name bit I figured not everyone has posted yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also I have no reason to give Aubrey botd here

VOTE: Aubrey

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Speedlynch gamma. He clearly doesn't understand what a personal inside joke is.

Ugh. That was so vague that nobody would have thought anything of it, and was a perfect inside joke till you went and ruined it. Now I'm heart broken, and the only answer is to lynch ya. Gimme a hand here Transcend?

On another note, it's been awhile chilled. How's it going? Lovely weather? You should vote Gamma. For old times sake!

Posts for which I'm voting Aubrey.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Speedlynch gamma. He clearly doesn't understand what a personal inside joke is.

Ugh. That was so vague that nobody would have thought anything of it, and was a perfect inside joke till you went and ruined it. Now I'm heart broken, and the only answer is to lynch ya. Gimme a hand here Transcend?

On another note, it's been awhile chilled. How's it going? Lovely weather? You should vote Gamma. For old times sake!

Posts for which I'm voting Aubrey.

Congradulations, you still have no reason to think I'm scum. Especially since you are voting me for my RVS entry. Ps: Throwing out three quotes and simply saying "and this is why I'm voting him" isn't presenting a case at all. It's frankly underwhelming.

So, try this again. Why are you voting me?

I wouldn't be voting you if I didn't think these posts were scum motivated. I think it is evident from a town pov why I pointed these posts out

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Cracker just so you know trans plays like this as both alignments,

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The problem I have with Aubrey's posts is that they would usually be taken as a joke but there's always a chance it doesn't get taken as a joke. It's a no lose situation for scum because it can always be said it was just a joke even if something does end up coming of it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't know whether or not Aubrey's posts were serious. It's too early to tell. 2 ways to react to his rvs Gamma push imo:
1. One or both of Transcend/chilledtea vote Gamma because it's rvs and there's not much of a reason to vote anyone yet so why not?
2. People take the posts as a joke and move on

If the gamma wagon builds as fast as the DDD wagon did and you're scum then maybe a buddy can hammer him, and claim they didn't realize the VC if they're quick enough. Your posts make me paranoid because of the potential motivation scum would have to post them, and they at the same time appear innocent.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

From a scale on the core of the earth to the universe, Ssbm, How do you likely find Aubrey's posts as not a joke or not a shit post? Because clearly, there's no evident posts from a town pov on that case you're trying to imply.

I mean since there's a 1/4 chance Aubrey's scum I guess 25% would be the chance that those posts have a hidden motive.

@Aubrey - Well I'm clearly in the minority here but my point stands. You can't deny that scum stands to gain from what you posted, because anything posted that early can easily be taken as a joke. It doesn't mean you're scum, it was just what seemed the most suspicious to me at the time that I voted. You seem okay though. Play looks proactive at least. Occam's razor is a neat idea but imo not very useful in a game where there exist people who are trying to hide their true motives.

@Transcend - This is my heart right now </3

Alban, was just thinking the same (SR) about keyen on the reread. Not sure what you mean by laundering but the posts do look fluffy. I don't think I saw any accusation of his yet either. He's letting others make pushes and is picking ones that look supported to back. I don't like 119 either. I was clearly being serious about my Aubrey read at the time.

VOTE: Keyen

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Woah there partner

You think alban is the only person who's noticed you?

pedit: double ninja'd

Why are you reacting so strongly to my one vote? Are you scared of being voted by the most suspicious looking player? That doesn't seem like a natural town reaction to me at all.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not sheeping alban though, he just finished his post about you before me. What he thinks of you did not influence my read on you. You talk about my case on Aubrey as though it was a well-developed, consistent suspicion that I suddenly dropped.
There's nothing funny about taking a step back to reevaluate the game to this point and try a new angle, especially so early on when I'm trying to figure players out. It would be amazing if I could be right all the time with my gut reads D1, but I'm not.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also un-voted the MOMENT Eric requested a replacement, not after he was replaced and LQ displayed immense activity. So scratch this crap of me backtracking cause

"I realized LQ is more active and persistent than Eric."

I agree with this. I had forgotten about the positioning of your unvote.
But that brings me to another q.
If you really thought Eric was scummy, you shouldn't have unvoted before clearing his successor. I am not saying you are scummy or townie for doing that, but you can't use that argument in your favour either.

Still catching up but it looks to me like alban ignored the explanation aubrey gave. Eric slot was only a scum lean at the time for aubrey because of a few posts that could be attributed to playstyle. Since aubrey works from null reads towards an alignment it's not a stretch to see why he would unvote such an early game replace-out

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Bit yeah this game blew up while I was sleeping. I'm gonna eat breakfast and then go back and read again, just skimmed through from bed on my phone

Pedit: but aubrey does give analysis so how is that IIoA?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

tbh I've been watching the way alban has been pushing keyen and that's why I've been so quiet. I didn't have anything further to say about keyen and I wanted to see what alban would do unprompted. When I read the couple pages about Gamma preparing to leave the game last night, before I went to bed, I didn't really have any comment on that since it was resolved that Gamma was staying already. It was a distraction from the game so I didn't want to feed it. First impression upon catching up from last night is that alban's reaction to the votes on him is scum through and through. If I take that into consideration my case on keyen is not as strong because it's pretty much the same as alban's, he just posted his thoughts as I was writing mine up. Surprised at the way Transcend and LQ acted wrt the alban wagon and I think one of them is scum theatering with alban. Not sure which yet.

VOTE: alban

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Leaning towards transcend being the scum though because alban puts him on the town side of his reads list in his obvscum skittles post with all the colors of the rainbow, fwiw. Get back on this LQ don't be fooled by them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think if alban is scum then either you or transcend are scum because something about that wagon stinks to high hell, it looked really contrived and it was gone in an instant, despite how scummy alban was acting throughout. Makes me think the accusation was fake in the first place and alban was putting on a show, but they were too obvious about it. It was either you and alban or Transcend and alban and like I said I think it's more likely to be Transcend.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That's just my suspicion on one of you 2 being the second. I mean hell, you even said "I had to keep up the act for at least a little while." I guess maybe that's an indication it wasn't scum theater after all if you admit to it before I even point it out, but it definitely looked like something was disingenuous about how that wagon formed and faded so quickly. So maybe I'm wrong about there being a partner in you and Transcend, but what if Transcend was putting on a show too? Maybe when he said "something's not right" he was referring to your vote (since it was supposedly a reaction test) but he didn't recognize it was a test so he got out of there?

I don't agree with your conclusions on how alban reacted though. That all looked like scum overreacting to being caught.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok that's fair. I understand why you're not voting him but I disagree on that conclusion. Gonna dip for a while to give others a chance to respond to this development. Aubrey is still catching up tonight I think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I wouldn't bother with worrying about those Transcend votes, he doesn't give reasons for a long time, but I feel like he always has them.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean, you misread a lot of people that game but we won anyways. What makes you think that?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why are you defending cracker? They're not going to get lynched while they're not posting, this is just going to light a fire under them. If they're scum trying to skate it will encourage them to post, and if they're just softly V/LA or done with this game they'll either post something real or replace out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Everyone is just voting randomly in this game and no body is asking questions. When I ask questions I get nil answers back, and nobody seems to care.

Gamma whats your case against Trascend? Why are you not questioning him?
Trascend, whats your case against LQ? Why not questioning him?
LQ why are you still voting an empty slot? How are you going to question an empty slot?

All these behaviors are scummy.

Lethargy/Chilled/Keyen/Dave have provided very little ACTUAL content. Deer and Cracker have pratically not been in the game.

Dave's every second post of his little list of posts is scummy yet no one wants to vote him. Town!dave unvotes to avoid a ML at RVS and then suddenly changes his attitude from careful townie to a reckless one by self voting. Then he says both votes were meme votes. I've been trying to get a read list from him but at this point he is just balantly game avoiding.

Gamma is showing 0 scumhunting in their content. Read their ISO. Look at the way he is replying to my questions. Tell me if you believe the answers. I have 0 feedback from everyone else.

If either of them flips scum Trascend would be my next best guess since there is a good chance he was chainsawing me. All he does is provides empty reads / votes and doesn't do anything to really move the game forward.

My only town reads today have been Aubrey and to a lesser extent Alban. Alban you have a really bad sense of humor but I think you are town.

What do you think about me voting alban? I noticed I was left out of this post and I'm pretty sure I'm the only player you left off. I've also pushed both of your townreads this game, and it seems like a lot of people think my pushes on them are bad, so why don't you address that at all? Unless I missed it earlier lol

@Transcend - Can you explain what you thought "wasn't right" back in post 489 when you unvoted alban?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

classic

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know how to meta Transcend after one completed game with him and my meta read on his last post is that he agrees voting off meta is dumb but disagrees with gut reads being dumb

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll prolly sheep Transcend by deadline on reputation alone tbh but I will do a focused reread tomorrow, hosting a dank melee tournament at my house tonight so I'll be off.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sheeping Transcend as in voting for the player you're voting for, since I'm not sure if you're scum, even though this is the most suspicious I've been of you since you mislynched me in 1850 (and I was wrong about you that time)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And yes SSBM in my name is for melee

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean if I'm your only SR I'm not self-voting but I'll look again before deadline if I have time for it. Probably tomorrow night

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Uhh this is white flag though scum can easily be Transcend as there is no problem to save him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Omg autocorrect

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Scum can easily nk Transcend with no pr to save him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Aubrey you know what sleeping is right? I said I was willing to sheep Transcend. That means I vote for who he votes for

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I originally said I'll probably sheep transcend by deadline if my reread doesn't dig anything up. I'm planning on doing my dig after work tonight. Just because others who are null reads to me don't see my top SR getting lynched does not mean I will unvote them. If I had strong townreads on several people who all were saying alban is town and I'm wrong I would consider unvoting until I dug through the game. There has been such a lack of activity in this game by so many slots that it is difficult to establish reads with any real value to them, because not everyone is interacting with one another. Without first doing my deep note-taking I'd say LQ is my only TR.

I think alban is scum. If alban is scum, Transcend is scum with him. Transcend is a likely target for a NK if he's town though, so I don't see any merit in lynching Transcend before alban, since he is only conditionally scum with alban imo. Transcend, as town, has good reads. This is why I would be willing to sheep him by the deadline. I want to take a close look at toto during my reread tonight though, since he seems to be pinging people and Transcend has FoSed him this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'll prolly sheep Transcend by deadline on reputation alone tbh but I will do a focused reread tomorrow, hosting a dank melee tournament at my house tonight so I'll be off.

Sheeping Transcend as in voting for the player you're voting for, since I'm not sure if you're scum, even though this is the most suspicious I've been of you since you mislynched me in 1850 (and I was wrong about you that time)

Like I originally said I'll probably sheep transcend by deadline if my reread doesn't dig anything up. I'm planning on doing my dig after work tonight. Just because others who are null reads to me don't see my top SR getting lynched does not mean I will unvote them. If I had strong townreads on several people who all were saying alban is town and I'm wrong I would consider unvoting until I dug through the game. There has been such a lack of activity in this game by so many slots that it is difficult to establish reads with any real value to them, because not everyone is interacting with one another. Without first doing my deep note-taking I'd say LQ is my only TR.

I think alban is scum. If alban is scum, Transcend is scum with him. Transcend is a likely target for a NK if he's town though, so I don't see any merit in lynching Transcend before alban, since he is only conditionally scum with alban imo. Transcend, as town, has good reads. This is why I would be willing to sheep him by the deadline. I want to take a close look at toto during my reread tonight though, since he seems to be pinging people and Transcend has FoSed him this game.

Kk so here's the sheep posts. Transcend is a hard player to read through what he posts, because it looks the same whether he is town or scum. This is why I always try to find out if Transcend is scum based on how other players interact with him, and based on

who

he TRs and SRs. He rarely explains

why

he TRs or SRs people, and when he does, it's usually vague. Transcend has a reputation for being a skilled player as both alignments. Skilled at catching scum as town, and skilled at not getting lynched as scum.
I began developing a scumread on alban for how hard he was pushing keyen, partly because I know that keyen is a player that is easy to push. The way alban reacted to that quick wagon with LQ and Transcend voting and unvoting in succession made him look scummier and I thought that one of LQ or Transcend would be scum with him. Talking it over with LQ after helped me reshape that opinion; I now think it is possible that if alban is scum that one or the other of LQ and Transcend is scum with him, but it is not necessary that they are partners. I still think that a scum!alban flip makes Transcend look very suspicious, but I don't have other serious SRs yet this game. There are a lot of players I'm not comfortable giving a read on due to lack of interactions with several players and low activity in general. In 860 I admitted that "this is the most suspicious I've been of you since you mislynched me in 1850 (and I was wrong about you that time)." Last time I suspected Transcend and he suspected me, we were both wrong about each other. This is why I am willing to give pause and trust in his read to sheep if I can't find a good suspect in a reread.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE : ssbm_Kyouko

"I have a scum read on alban. If alban is scum, then transcend is scum. If transcend is town however, he will be nkd. BTW I am going to sheep transcend bcoz he tends to have good reads."

If you are town this is the most ridiculous line of thought ever. Sheeping someone who is your possible scum read is just ridiculous.

I don't think you're following what I'm saying. Transcend is only associatively scum if alban turns out to be scum. Until I know that alban is scum I'm not going to vote Transcend unless: 1) he or another player make other associative tells to lead me to believe he is scum with that player, and 2) that player is revealed by flip to be scum. I would of course vote him if I felt like he was openly scumtelling but his town play looks scummy which is why I don't judge him on his words alone, but on how others interact with him.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That is what I said and that is why I voted you. I had been watching your push on keyen for about a day iirc and then I went to bed and woke up to all those pages where the wagon formed and died already, and after reading all that I decided that you were a more serious candidate than keyen.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How do you know about my (relatively decent) reputation btw.

Word of mouth in the several games we've been in together. Obviously can't go into anything specific besides PP's Mini Normal 1850, but people gave you credit there. That game is the first we played together and after that I decided a good strat regardless of alignment was to buddy you because if you're scum I'll live long enough to spot associations and if you're town you won't mislynch me again. It also works if I'm scum because scum buddy town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I began developing a scumread on alban for how hard he was pushing keyen, partly because I know that keyen is a player that is easy to push. The way alban reacted to that quick wagon with LQ and Transcend voting and unvoting in succession made him look scummier and I thought that one of LQ or Transcend would be scum with him.

These are the posts that made me reconsider if alban's push on keyen was genuine

Lol. I am not Active Lurking.

Your words against my reads. Any guesses, which one will I trust more?

I don't wanna appear patronising, especially if you are town, but surely there's something more that you could be doing with your posts?

Keyen, i am scum reading you at the moment. If you are a town, you should try to answer rather than getting defensive n omgusing n discrediting me, coz your answers can help me look elsewhere. You being defensive isn't helping the situation. My q are fairly straightfwd.
1. Why is aubrey your first real town read?
2. What does null scum mean according to you, and why am i nullscum?

A third q springs to mind.
3. You said you are null/townreading everyone except me n ssbm. We are also the only two who are suspecting you.

Is there a cause-effect relationship between who is suspecting you and whom you are suspecting?

You guys realise that this kind of wagon isn't going to work on someone like Cracker, right?
Most likely she will give up or come up with an outlandish post, which will further confirm your suspicions on her.

Plus, lynching her isn't gonna be useful in any way.
Keyen is a better choice

. Look at his posts. There's a lot more scope for improvement there. And they are capable of giving a defence.

The bolded are what jumped out at me. The questions in the first two quotes feel rhetorical/antagonistic rather than feeling like genuine attempts to clear a suspect. The third quote tells people a Cracker lynch is useless (probably true, they haven't said much) and to vote keyen instead

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This playstyle will lose the game. Stop looking for associations and look for individual scumminess.

There isn't just one scum though. Associations are useful for catching scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Could you explain how you think my reads on alban and Transcend are related to the white flag gambit? I don't think people are following my reasoning correctly and if there are several of you not following I'm probably not doing the best job of explaining

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've been town with Transcend before and had him leading/calling for my mislynch in that game though. I ended up getting lynched and was convinced he was scum but he turned out to be town. His read on me isn't correct but that doesn't mean others of his would also not be correct

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright mates I'm about to dank out and crack down on this case

prepare to be dazzled

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Toto, Scumdeers, Gamma, look pretty primo to me after some ISOing and deep thinking but tbh I overdid it tonight

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Toto
You're targetting someone would could be easilly mislynched based on activity.

Toto has barely posted more than you, but his posts are at least substantive. This wagon is building too quickly, there are probably already 2 scum on it imo. I'm going back to double down Dave, he is trying to discredit what Toto is doing and isn't making an attempt to find scum, just going with the flow now that there is opportunity for him to place what looks like a somewhat acceptable vote. He is also saying he's not going to listen to what Toto has to say because toto called him David, yet he is voting Toto. Town should be paying close attention to their suspects to decide how sure they are of their suspects being scum, but Dave admits he is ignoring the player he's voting for.

VOTE: DoubleDownDave

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I intend to vote toto if it comes to deadline but I think the case on them seems weak and I would prefer Dave. Neither of them have been incredibly scummy but Dave isn't even contributing. The way I see it they've got similarly low chances of flipping scum, but I would rather toto be alive tomorrow than dave.

Consider how sure you really are of toto before you commit to deadlining him over Dave. Don't forget about the self-voting and the way Dave avoids accusations brought to him by Toto, as well as the way Dave ignores interaction from the player he's voting.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: SSBM

?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I'm usually active but there's not much to act on when there are like 3 completely/nearly inactive slots. Me, you, Transcend, alban, aubrey, and recently gamma/chilledtea/KAIN TEPES are all that are really keeping up. Working a lot lately (8 8hr days in a row, tomorrow is the last of those 8) but I did my reread a few nights ago at least.

This is the only site I've played on, and I'm not an alt. I've played Avalon twice irl and watched people play mafia on stream at Smash Summit, a super smash bros melee (ssbm) house tournament. I wanted to play really bad after that so I googled where to play mafia online

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah the newbie queue was slow so I read a bunch on the wiki the first couple days

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Dave. I'm reading this player list and I don't have a solid tr on anyone yet which really sucks. Makes it hard to feel good about lynching anyone in particular since so many of you are acting scummy.

Chilledtea is probably the last person I'd lynch today simply because they haven't done anything to make me really suspicious yet and they're somewhat active.

List of players I've seriously thought were scum at some point this game
Aubrey
Albany
Dave
Keyenpeedee
Transcend
Lq
Toto
Gamma

Lethargy slot and scumdeers have been really inactive today.

Just to be clear I don't even tr chilledtea, it's just that the rest of you have looked bad in comparison at some point today for some reason or another. Can give reasons for all on my list even if the reasons no longer stand as strong as they once did

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay 1280 is good enough for me because scum!Toto flip makes me less suspicious of alban and by extension Trans, LQ, whereas with Dave, I don't think there was much to get out of a flip.
VOTE: toto

Pedit: Also he's testing Toto's towniness, not yours

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Dave

reasons above

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That is L-1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah, and Dave, the lurker who suddenly reappeared when their wagon ran up, is back to

big chillin™

so if we kill him we'll all be here D2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Deimos, one of the Lethargy heads, replaced him. Vedith took over ScumDeers (I think) and KAIN TEPES took the Wyvern/Cracker slot that barely posted. KAIN TEPES and Vedith might have replaced the other way around though, idk

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vedith is just memeing he usually has a cartman avatar from South park, they're not the same person

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh that's hammer, if you're town Dave hurry with twilight reads

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why these two in particular?

These posts imo. Deimos leaves keyen out of the middle of the wagon and Keyen tries to disassociate himself from the Dave lynch. Deimos post is also close to IIoA given how shallow the analysis provided is

Some thoughts:
Good thing yall decided to lynch dave d1. If yall didn't, I would expect him to be so useless when lylo comes.

Day 1 VC 16

PsychoticDave: Toto, keyenpeydee, chilledtea, alban, LicketyQuickety, ssbm_Kyouko, Aubrey -

LYNCH

Toto: Transcend, PsychoticDave
LicketyQuickety: Gamma Emerald, KainTepes
Deimos27: Vedith

Not voting: Deimos27

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

I intend to do a VCA for d1 at some point as I catch up, but I'm dead tired right now from another thing (can't talk about it because of site rules). So that'll have to wait until another time.

For now, heres what I think on how scum would pattern here. At least one scum in the centre of the Dave wagon (common place for them to hide...)
So that's:
{chilled, alban, LQ, Kyouku}

As well as at least one outside the wagon (three scum and four town on the same wagon? I find it highly unlikely that psychology would allow them to bunch like that).
So that's:
{Transcend, Gamma, Kain, Vedith}

I'll start narrowing those down probably starting tomorrow or Sunday.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Whoa why are you speaking for Vedith?

woah big surprise I was thinking the same thing when I read the opening of day 2 and he's V/LA so I don't want his comment to be forgotten

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can't believe dave flipped town tbh he was being a real scumbag about the toto wagon and he self-voted w/o self-hammering, just played a really scummy game for a townie

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do something about it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm actually surprised I'm not the only one who thinks it's those 3 lol. Toto is still possibly a town pawn being used by LQ and his partners imo though. I came to the LQ conclusion through VCA and reading his exchanges with Aubrey, and looking at the game as though Transcend were town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean it is possible that LQ, along with 2 of alban/chilledtea/gamma/Transcend/keyenpeedee are making it look like Toto is the scum to secure a mislynch. Unlikely that Transcend is scum with LQ and alban imo, also unlikely that alban is scum with keyen, but I think gamma individually seems scummy even if he doesn't look as though he's motivated by the same things LQ is motivated by (except derailing the toto wagon)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If you have an ad blocking software you can configure it to block certain player's (TTTT's) avatars with a custom filter, but idk if it's possible on mobile

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I didn't TR Aubrey yesterday. I'm less suspicious of the people not on the Dave wagon right now because I now know Aubrey was town so the wagon is a bit easier to dissect than it would have been if maf killed one of the players not on the d1 wagon.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You posted that during my alban push I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Day 1 VC 16

PsychoticDave: Toto, keyenpeydee, chilledtea, alban, LicketyQuickety, ssbm_Kyouko, Aubrey -

LYNCH

Toto: Transcend, PsychoticDave
LicketyQuickety: Gamma Emerald, KainTepes
Deimos27: Vedith

Not voting: Deimos27

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

I intend to do a VCA for d1 at some point as I catch up, but I'm dead tired right now from another thing (can't talk about it because of site rules). So that'll have to wait until another time.

For now, heres what I think on how scum would pattern here. At least one scum in the centre of the Dave wagon (common place for them to hide...)
So that's:
{chilled, alban, LQ, Kyouku}

As well as at least one outside the wagon (three scum and four town on the same wagon? I find it highly unlikely that psychology would allow them to bunch like that).
So that's:
{Transcend, Gamma, Kain, Vedith}

I'll start narrowing those down probably starting tomorrow or Sunday.

This is so outlandish, I would treat deimos a town.

That's not really very outlandish at all. Being a townie on that lynch wagon makes it a bit easier to find scum since you know your own and Aubrey's alignments. Odd that he leaves Keyen out but puts me in though since we're equidistant to the center of the wagon where scum hide

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Sure it's explicable, but I have the benefit of my role PM in this wagon's analysis. If I die, so will the rest of you. I said it was odd because it appears odd from my point of view. I don't mean to say I suspect deimos in that post, I mean what I said.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... g_Early_On

See "The Butter Zone". Now I thought the tell was votes 3 and up but it is actually 2 and keyen should be included. That's my bad.

But he himself doesn't believe that.
I dunno if he buckled under pressure which would make him a gullible townie, or if he deliberately chose to exclude keyen. But in that case, I can't imagine deimos n keyen being mafia together.

Is there a specific interaction that leads you to believe they can't be a scumteam?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: kek

CUM HE TRULY IS

I won't infer that Deimos left Keyen out because they're a scumteam, I think it's more likely he just thinks the beginning of the wagon is less scummy than the end. If I ever saw a scum!deimos flip though I'd reconsider his motives.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Deimos individually is null for me right now and Keyen is always hard to read because he is lynchbait every time. Together I don't think I've seen anything to suggest they're a scumteam, and it's you that gives me pause when considering keyen because of the initial reason I SRed you yesterday. I'm just not convinced your push was towny. Trying out this Occam's razor thing where I don't assume you and Transcend are scheming scum together because that's more of a stretch than saying one or the other of you is town in that interaction on D1 surrounding your wagon. If you're town keyen is still either town or scum but if you're scum keyen is definitely town.

Toto lynch doesn't feel right but I'd follow it if push comes to shove because of the Dave stuff but Dave was really begging to be pushed with the way he was playing so that's why I want to look further than toto first.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Don't really have many scumreads beyond alban, but I think I can PoE my way to victory after alban's scumflip

Wait that was based on old thoughts shit

This may be a scum slip if he was posting based on opinions he had written down to appear consistent

Yuck. Town of Salem. Different beast than this. I wouldn't derail a wagon off of SSBM after doing some thinking (with me on it btw), only to move it onto my partner. That is just dumb.

I like to think of possible associates pre flip

Theory: Toto is scum, and Kain is scum as well wanting to appear pro town by being hyper aggressive, and then when he sees his chance he tries and derail the wagon, but still has the opportunity to vote his buddy should there be no alternative. If Toto does flip scum, you're prime suspect number one for me bud.

Heeeey I noticed this upon ISO.
So you are making Toto!scum theories.

This is why Aubrey was NKed, Gamma and Toto are a team I think. If this is true that's 2/3 scum and game over.

I can't really define a solid pool. There's Transcend as my solid choice, then there's secondaries like LQ or keyen/alban.

I'll say that Toto and alban are very solid TRs of mine.

VOTE: Gamma
Nice reads on alban m8, care to explain the progression?
Transcend get over here we can do this

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also alban based on this Gamma shit you're probably town so you get on this too

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There's no indication in his ISO of anything to change his reads on alban and now he's suddenly got him as a strong TR when he was consistently SRing him all of yesterday. He's also TRing Toto but that read makes a little bit of sense if you read his ISO

I think

. I was more focused on things concerning alban when reading though, so I wasn't watching the Toto read as closely.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

SSBM, please tell me about gamma's inconsistency if possible, through links and posts. I would like to look into that.

It's easy to see in his ISO but here is the stuff you asked for, already posted

Don't really have many scumreads beyond alban, but I think I can PoE my way to victory after alban's scumflip

Wait that was based on old thoughts shit

This may be a scum slip if he was posting based on opinions he had written down to appear consistent

Yuck. Town of Salem. Different beast than this. I wouldn't derail a wagon off of SSBM after doing some thinking (with me on it btw), only to move it onto my partner. That is just dumb.

I like to think of possible associates pre flip

Theory: Toto is scum, and Kain is scum as well wanting to appear pro town by being hyper aggressive, and then when he sees his chance he tries and derail the wagon, but still has the opportunity to vote his buddy should there be no alternative. If Toto does flip scum, you're prime suspect number one for me bud.

Heeeey I noticed this upon ISO.
So you are making Toto!scum theories.

This is why Aubrey was NKed, Gamma and Toto are a team I think. If this is true that's 2/3 scum and game over.

I can't really define a solid pool. There's Transcend as my solid choice, then there's secondaries like LQ or keyen/alban.

I'll say that Toto and alban are very solid TRs of mine.

VOTE: Gamma
Nice reads on alban m8, care to explain the progression?
Transcend get over here we can do this

I don't think I linked every one of his posts in which he accuses alban of being scum on D1 but that's an easy thing to spot if you just ISO Gamma. The inconsistency is that he quite suddenly flips from scumreading alban to solidly TRing him. I also posted a couple of speculative reasons he may be scum in my 1595, which were in my comments on his 988 and his 1209. See the bolded in the above quote.

568 is the first time he SRs alban (I think, it's the one I chose to multiquote from his ISO at least) and Gamma's 1458(quoted in my case) was in response to the following:

Can people name 3-4 top suspects they wouldn't mind lynching?

Transcend is probably not scum given his reaction to the wagon on alban now that I'm pretty sure alban is town. Gamma has been blatantly scummy, independent of other players so I'm voting here today (and you should too)!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There's no indication in his ISO of anything to change his reads on alban and now he's suddenly got him as a strong TR when he was consistently SRing him all of yesterday. He's also TRing Toto but that read makes a little bit of sense if you read his ISO

I think

. I was more focused on things concerning alban when reading though, so I wasn't watching the Toto read as closely.

This is why dry ISOing is a terrible strategy:

it kills context

.

When I iso people and something seems unclear from context I open the post that looks unclear in another tab and read around for context.

What is the meaning of this?
Gamma: "I TR alban because scum have no desire to clear a slot."
Are you saying because you have a TR there's no way you're scum because scum want to leave all of their options open? You're TRing him for the sake of TRing him to not look scum, you mean? Can you explain why you're TRing him at least, with quotes?

Wait that was based on old thoughts shit

By the way a post like this from scum doesn't seem possible from the scum-Gamma. SSBM's point that this was some "oops" moment seems a bit silly in retrospect since scum wouldn't be making such an oops moment. Why would scum deliberately point out there own stuff, and sure, scum can do that for wine effect but gamma's play doesn't seem indicative of that.

This is just the speculative part of my theory, along with why I speculate Aubrey may have been NKed. The hard evidence is the alban read. He's forgotten he was SRing alban and he slipped up. He's scum.

BTW if we are talking about a quicklynch can we do deimos?

Do you have any evidence more compelling than the Gamma case to suggest scum!Lethargy/Deimos slot?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Transcend voted Toto because Toto was really latched on to Dave self-voting in RVS iirc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How do you know that?

I think I got another player confused with Transcend because I don't see it in his ISO. Closest thing I saw was Alban talking about voting him for the stances he had on other players, but I'm pretty sure I remember reading words that specifically mentioned that Toto was pushing Dave for too long. Not sure where though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's obviously conscientious, just roll with it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's obviously conscientious, just roll with it

What is?

KAIN TEPES's posting style where they use lots of periods and caps.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I meant to say he was doing it consciously, I thought that was what conscientious meant. As in, he was doing it intentionally and was aware of it.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OK so gamma alban(ArcAngel) keyen look good to me now. Going to go back and look at the wagons on keyen and alban now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also the feeling of frustration that is causing players to replace out is one I can sympathize with because the game is stalling but I feel like I actually have decent reads for the second time in this game (first being the gamma SR last page or 2) so let's kick this off again

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Look good means town btw

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No, I'm saying the first time in this game that I actually felt like I had a promising lead it was on you but it turned out you had a good reason to TR alban. I don't currently SR you, I think TRs on you and alban and maybe Keyen are good reads and that's what I'm going to work with today

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Am at L-4 with votes from Keyen, Transcend and LQ.
Dave and Toto will join for sure.
Gamma maybe.
That will put me at L-1.
All the scums in there?

Games over well done, alban just solved the game for us on day 1. I am impressed.

Lq and toto can die

Also kyouko

Rest prob town

Transcend solves the game on day 1. I'm impressed.

Putting these here in case LQ flips scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

LQ behavior on the alban wagon was scummy and he played it off as a reaction test so I'll probably go there but still need to see keyen wagon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

IF TOTO IS SCUM YOU ARE ALSO TOTO SCUMBUDDY BECAUSE YOU DERAIL WAGON,,, BUT IF TOTO IS INNOCENT YOU CAN STILL BE SCUM,, SCUM TOTO AND SCUM GAMMY, k, TOWN TOTO AND SCUM GAMMAP OSIBBLE, BUT GAMMA TOWN AND TOTO SCUM NAH otherwise GAMMA AND LICK WILL HAVE NO REASON OF WAGON DERAILMENT.......!!!

ALSO I THOUGHT YOU TOWNREAD HIM.... but now you are trying to get more people to scumread HIM????........... I CAUGHT GAMMA SCUM VOTE HOPPING,, EVERYONE NOTICED????

What I noticed is you don't acknowledge the possibility that gamma and toto are both town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

LQ behavior on the alban wagon was scummy and he played it off as a reaction test so I'll probably go there but still need to see keyen wagon

It seems that is the only reason you are Scum reading me. You have brought it up so many times.

Yeah, I've brought it up so many times because it's a genuine read and that's what I have to go on right now since I don't have the benefit of knowing players' alignments. Why point this out? Fwiw Eric, the player you replaced, was giving the classic scumteams of "let's hurry up and lynch some scum" which I can see newbscum doing because they aren't aware of how obvious a tell it is. Maybe that's why he replaced out?

KYOUKO ALSO SCUM READ YOU BECAUSE YOU JOIN GAMMA IN WAGON DERAILMENT............. dont avoid the ISSUE............

This isn't a reason for why I scumread LQ

[ssbm_Kyouko]

There is no counter wagon going on. Yet there is a bunch of talk against the likely lynch today. All I'm skimming here is

"oh god why him? anybody could have been picked out of X peeps. blah blah blah.

" and the name that continues to stand out the most to me is Dave. Dave seems to be the next viable lynch out of everyone here in line with Toto. Yet there is only one vote on the guy. Hell Chilled straight up said he was scummier than Toto. Yet no vote.

Transcend doesn't seem like a viable lynch right now. Yet Gamma continues to vote him. Why? If you do not feel as if Toto is scum and is a likely mislynch then you should vote for someone who has a better potential at flipping scum and is somewhat of a viable lynch. Yet he is opposed. He happens to aggree with Chilled though.

Chilled voting Lethargy? It probably aint going to happen unless they swoop in and say something so bizarre that it straight up earns them a scum quick lynch. Yet he is opposed or questions the Toto lynch and feels as if he has some town sincerity in his posts. Posts that he has yet to quote or go into detail on. Mixed with his above statement.

Keyen is on a old lynch option. Who knows what is going on in his head there.

The only person here who has actively voted against the Toto wagon is SSBM.

I mean, hell. TOTO HIMSELF ISNT EVEN VOTING AGIANST HIS WAGON.

I straight up wouldn't be shocked if Toto flipped Town or Scum. I think his flip will give us some juicy things to go off of tomorrow though. Thats for sure. If he flips town, I might not be against thinking a scum trying to pretend to be against the lynch knowing he'd flip town either.

What do you guys think of the Dave wagon in relationship to the Toto one? Was it a cw to scum!Toto or was it made to look like one in order to both incriminate town!Toto later and get Aubrey off the Scum's back when she wouldn't hammer town!Toto? Trying to find reasons why she might have been NKed and this looks possible. If so it points to some of the players that moved from toto to dave imo.

I don't think my vote is here rn so
VOTE: LQ

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler:

TOOT

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Game is heading nowhere fast. alban, the player you replaced, looks town to a lot of people. The game has kind of stalled out from low activity players. D1 we almost lynched Toto, but ended up lynching PsychoticDave instead. I think Transcend, Toto, Gamma, and LicketyQuickety are the players that are being looked at right now. The wagon that quickly built on your slot D1 and then vanished is probably important to look at.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I know how T plays as town and this is not it.

considering what I said when i last voted gamma, he isn't even scum hunting which isn't a protown thing to do.

That's a lie. I love how everyone seems to love saying "this guys not realky playing". It's really obvious you're scum when you do that.
At this rate I won't have the support to lynch my scumreads, so I make a proposition: you can lynch me today then lynch keyen or Transcend tomorrow. I will selfvote to make this happen.

Get this

I don't want you lynched

This is penguin mafia all over again

If this is Penguin Mafia can we not mislynch me again kthx

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok so it's either Transcend+LQ or Toto+LQ imo and my best read is on LQ so I'm gonna urge you Transcend to vote LQ for cw purposes. If he flips scum I'll vote Toto tomorrow, and if Toto flips town after that I'm gonna be watching you like a hawk so you'd better NK me at that point if you want to live

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I like Transcend and think LQ makes sense with both of them. I also buy into the Toto case a little bit but I think LQ is scummier. I also think Transcend pointing out that the alban wagon wasn't right felt like town!Transcend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't know that I like SSBM lining up lynches. Not sure I like that at all.

You thinking what I'm thinking?

Penguin Mafia, part 2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ok

Aubrey is town

We can do this buddy

yeah you can't even properly counter this LEGITIMATE argument

GET SOME FUCKIN ROPE DUDE

aubrey this is our time to shine. we're getting this scumfuck lynched. you and me. we missed our opportunity to go the distance in Friends & Enemies.

One of these days we'll lynch scum together, Aubrey.

VOTE: Toto

This is the full context but while reading the iso It seems like he has a lot more suspects than usual. Like when I've been town with him he usually finds a lynchpool pretty early on in the game and narrows it down but this isn't what it looks like this time.
idk man I don't like meta but [Transcend/Toto, LQ] is my 2 cents. Transcend/Toto can't be TvT here I don't think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Chilled, Gamma, Toto is the current Transcend wagon, it takes 6 to lynch, Keyen unvoted a while back.

Can't be TvT because they're individually scummy outside their pushes at each other and they're tunneled onto each other. Both of them, as the 1 scum, are dead after the other dies and flips town I think, but they both would want to get one last mislynch in before that and the other would be the easiest target for a mislynch. Not both scum because they wouldn't tunnel into this so hard D2, I could maybe see them scum together D1 but idk really. Not relevant anymore because of new interactions.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Toto
This is what side I'm on
I got u fam

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think toto is scum with Vedith and either LQ, chilled, or ssbm
In that order.

My Lord and Savior.

Pedit: no, and i think he's probably scum with lq and toto.

ok so it's either Transcend+LQ or Toto+LQ imo and my best read is on LQ so I'm gonna urge you Transcend to vote LQ for cw purposes. If he flips scum I'll vote Toto tomorrow, and if Toto flips town after that I'm gonna be watching you like a hawk so you'd better NK me at that point if you want to live

This post feels manipulative and forced as fuck.

VOTE: ssbm

I was hoping you were the town of the 2
VOTE: Transcend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

top 2 quotes were for something else involving the way your reads were moving a bit but can be ignored

[ssbm_Kyouko]

LQ your quote tags are broke so you just voted Transcend, might wanna fix

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you know the context

Only what's in the thread.

LQ your quote tags are broke so you just voted Transcend, might wanna fix

Did I make a mistake?

see your 1916

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh nm I guess they aren't broken it's just weird that you said your Kain Tepes vote wasn't going anywhere and that you voted Transcend in the same post, I assumed that 1886 by gamma contained a Transcend vote that you accidentally quoted and broke the tags on somehow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

More likely he's talking about post 1857 in that context but idk

[ssbm_Kyouko]

yeah I think LQ is scum for the alban wagon D1 and the Eric slot but nobody wants to kill him except KAIN TEPES I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I can't make that post as scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean I could but I wouldn't

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I felt he was different compared to Newbie 1752.

Nice catch, I'm playing different than I did in my first game of mafia ever

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Aubrey refused to hammer Toto when Transcend was pushing that, I remember at least that much

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Spoiler: Lots of out-of context Aubrey ISO quotes

So far I'd be willing to lynch these players.

LQ, Lethargy, Dave, Toto, Gamma, and Keyen.

Not in any particular order. Just people I wouldn't be completely opposed to lynching so far. To be blunt, I'd lynch anybody if it meant avoiding a no lynch.

Oh yea. Ssbm. I don't know what I think about him yet. I don't agree with all of his pushes, but dammit I'll take someone who pushes at this point and asks questions.

Transcend asked the same question I was about to ask.

I just don't like when people complain. So I complain when they do

In general, I won't have time to check in more than once a day. Maybe on weekends

but not this one because I'll be VL/A (@mod)

We are all voting randomly and not asking questions?....You're not the type who only cares about his pushes, but not other peoples pushes are ya? From what I can tell you've been hounding Dave and Gamma mostly. Gamma and Dave are easy pushes as far as I'm concerned that scum can easily push if they are town, and you haven't really shed light on anything else that has occurred.

You can talk about Alban's wagon that formed. You can talk about the forming wagons. Who you'd like to get rid of or keep. Those who support your ideas through their ideas or vise versa. Why Gamma is the best lynch over the other forming wagons. There's plenty to talk about right now.

Hell, I've even brought things up against and for Gamma throughout this game without a word of support or questionability from you. Yet you expect me to sit here and drool over your pushes? Come on now bud...

I also haven't placed Transcend yet. He ain't no townread of mine. I'm not not all that excited for why he is being voted.

Just not*

....

VOTE: Gamma

UNVOTE: Gamma

Having second thoughts. May return to it though.

i'm playing survivalistic and to get information my scumreads aren't getting lynched so i'm banking on being wrong

....so you don't really scum read Gamma?

I'll prolly sheep Transcend by deadline on reputation alone tbh but I will do a focused reread tomorrow, hosting a dank melee tournament at my house tonight so I'll be off.

Lame. See this is where I have issues with people who are voting Transcend though.

Not to mention if I were scum, and Transcend was town, I'd be setting myself up to vote him the moment I thought there might be a chance town would lynch him.

That being said, he really doesnt like Toto or SSBM...why join a wagon with him on it? Correct me if I'm wrong, Toto was the only one voting Gamma at the time, right? Only a few people had mentioned their distaste for Gamma's play till then. He couldn't vote Keyen since he had a gut town read on him. Why not just vote Toto since he scum read him, and people had issues with him?

In fact, if he is banking on being wrong, that means he town reads Gamma...? wtf. A townie should vote for the person they scum read, not bank on being wrong. Especially when their scum read has potential to build a wagon.

Hella super duper far fetched but haven't both Transcend and LQ shown issues towards Toto, but failed to vote the slot? I hope they aren't scum trying to distance one another, while keeping their votes off of Toto since people question his alignment. Transcend could vote LQ since it is apparent people aren't willing to vote him based on activity reasons....super fuck'n far fetched.

--

and? You voting solely on rep is poor scum hunting. It also gives you an easy way to vote the slot.

Ssbm.

I'll prolly sheep Transcend by deadline on reputation alone tbh but I will do a focused reread tomorrow, hosting a dank melee tournament at my house tonight so I'll be off.

Lame. See this is where I have issues with people who are voting Transcend though.

Not to mention

if I were scum, and Transcend was town, I'd be setting myself up to vote him the moment I thought there might be a chance town would lynch him.

To vote someone purely based on Rep is poor scum hunting logic. However if you're scum, it is a great tactic to use this as a "foot in the door" method of being able to vote a player you are scared of without having to bring forward a shred of reason for why. It is similar to how scum may vote a player based on poor activity rather than looking at the few posts they made and saying why they are scummy. Also, he seems to be waiting to see how the wagon will lean before committing to it.

Doesn't make me a happy camper.

I don't know if Ssbm is scum or not, but I don't like his reasoning for which he is willing to vote Transcend. On the flip side, I don't agree with Trancsend's Gamma vote either now that I'm examining it and seeing who is voting it. I want an explanation as to why he isnt voting a scum read of his and pushing it.

You're not exactly out of the dog house either LQ, but I'm willing to move on for now.



I'm watching you.

I think Transcend purposely plays to be unreadable. Maybe a better statement is, "I don't think he cares to play in a easily readable way." Hence, voting him based on play style is not that great of a move in my eyes without some reason of doubt. Didn't do me much good my first game with him. I wouldn't expect those who haven't played with him to understand that. You seemed to have an interesting experience since he did seem to be more aggressive your game. He was however a power-role. I imagine that may have a factor in his vigor.

Voting him on rep is just poor imo. It's that attitude that helps make reputable players begin to play in ambiguous styles, stop playing, or etc. Least I would imagine so. I'd hate to be voted just because of a good rep.

You keep on and on about your game, did you ever glance though mine out of curiosity?

Lastly, I've just brought forward questions to him about his plays. Why are you so pushy for to me scum read him?

Aubrey you know what sleeping is right? I said I was willing to sheep Transcend. That means I vote for who he votes for

"I will sheep transend" read as you were going to vote him alongside the others who where going to vote him. Sorry.

I can't say sheeping a player based on rep is better either though.

I agree. You should play the best to your win con. Being readable or unreadable is key. Enough with you treating me like some noob ass. That being said, some people don't do it. It's a fact. I understand those special individuals aren't going to change, so I need to learn how to begin getting reads on them, instead of just lynching them and hoping I get a scum lynch.

Transcend, answer me.

I don't mean to lecture you here, but how many times do we have to go over the same thing? Pro-Town is Pro-Active. You Cannot read a player who does not wish to be read.

DO

something about it.

Either you're scum really pushing to mislynch Transcend or you're town with some rigid views that doesnt exactly mesh with my own. Next up I am DOING something. I'm just not going to vote for the reasons you are voting because...

If I know a person purposely plays in an ambiguous style, irregardless of alignment, then of course I'm not going to solely vote them for that play style. That is just silly. At that point it's just luck if you land a scum kill. Instead I'm going to be looking at what they are doing, who they are voting, who is voting them, and etc.

wow. Re-reading, I'm a complete imbecile for misunderstanding Ssbm.

Key Aubrey alban strong town

Gamma/LQ not on the same scum team, but one is scum. Strong lean LQ.

Dave is still prob a mislynch but just has questionable play.

Ssbm and toto are scumfucks

Deer and cracker are null

Lethargy prob lynchbait mislynch

Did i miss anyone?

You thought scum could be in gamma or LQ, but highly lean on LQ. Then you have Toto and Ssbm. Why bank on being wrong on Gamma when you could have voted Toto. People have issue with him, so it would have fit your surrvival needs. Gamma just reads like the less of your evils listed. Furthermore, one of your scum reads was voting Gamma. He has pushed him a lot through the game, so shouldn't you be hesitant about voting Gamma? And instead voting Toto. Even as reckless as you are, I feel town you would be more senseable here.

......

VOTE: SSBM

Either this is scum, or town who just made himself great lynchbait.

I find it hard to think Transcend and Alban are aligned. I find it silly for you to sheep based on rep. Especially since he is now scum reading you. If you are town, it should now be clear to you that his reads aren't super strong or correct right now from your POV. Or he is scum, and is happy to have such a delicious counter wagon against his own wagon.

In regards to what Alban said in favor of you in post 941, I disagree about SSBM not knowing who to vote as being townie. I find it NAI.

also as a side note, anybody can also complain right now about the current state of the game. Just because someone complains about it doesn't mean you should town read them for it. Scum can easily feign the same thing.

sigh

We are not going to go into a round two of that argument LQ.

-- Dear Diary...

My gut hates Toto and Lethargy the most. It really wants them dead. I maybe biased though against Lethargy's slot since I expected a lot more out of hydra.

My head hates LQ the most, but my gut kinda likes him. just a bit. (

shocking I know.

) Probably cause he and I are annoyed by the same things at least.

My head really likes Chilled, but my gut be thinking there maybe a skeleton in the closet...If there is one, maybe I could sell it on the black market.

UNVOTE: SSBM

I'm not opposed to a SSBM lynch. The one thing that really bothers me is, why would scum go after Alban? when the wagon lost momentum after T and LQ dropped off it? Isn't Keyen an easy spot to keep one's vote on as scum? Unless they are scum buddies...However the only tactical manevour here is if he thinks he can generate a wagon onto Alban through his accusations. Accusations that don't seem that likely to me right now.

VOTE: Toto for now.

Sincerely,
Aubrey.

Can someone sum up the case on Toto?

do you have reasons for why we should like him?

I'm seeing pieces from multiple people and want a summary.

Cool. Answer my question.

Key's prob town too, btw.

My scum group atm is lethargy, aubrey, transcend and toto

. Transcend is obviously a very good scum player so he is there just for no reason.

UNVOTE
VOTE : Lethargy

This slot is 100% scum. Aubrey has moved up in my eyes.

Currently looking at scum possibilities of lethargy, gamma and transcend, maybe ssbm and toto and cracker.

Cracker and deer haven't done much from what I gather.

Don't like gamma at all and he is my next best guess for scum.

Transcend is doing very little in comparison to his meta. His vote on toto is also unexplained.

Aubrey is my town read for several reasons, he has followed my line of thinking regarding some events in the game and I find that to be difficult to be replicated by a scum member.

Alban is a town read.

LQ is still a semi town read but I didn't like his push on alban.

Lethargy, gamma are still my scumspects and

nothing has changed since my last reads list.

Sorry that I haven't done much, I was busy with work. But I am here now.

Soooo what happened here. You started out scum reading Toto....Now all of a sudden you dont understand why he is being scumread, ISO him, and he's all good.

If he were to flip scum, I'd be very interested in you Chilled.

hmmm. I think we are at a point where we just need a flip.

I'd stop comparing TOS to forum mafia. They are vastly different in nature while similar in some areas. Furthermore, bragging about wins isn't a good look. Nor does it mean much here. Least not to me.

I was getting a little bit shaky on the Toto wagon. Didn't seem it was getting much resistance what so ever, and built kinda fast, but that has changed somewhat. I mostly voted him since I felt like he was pushing easier players, and looking busy w/o dealing with other affairs that were going on much. Furthermore, I remembered other players saying they were suspicious of him, but never actually voted him really. Seemed kinda strange. I was shocked when Transcend and LQ joined shortly after my vote.

Now that it is has gained traction, and had what felt like decent resistance,...it seems like a viable lynch to learn something from.
I'd like to have a lynch sooner rather than later. Maybe one more day of talk, but really I'd like to not get down to the wire on this. Hopefully by day 2 the other empty slots will be replaced or back in action.

tick tock tick tock.

What game were you thinking of where there was a (or several) close calls with lynches at the deadline? How many times has that happened to you?

Like every damn game from my home site that I began my mafia journey in. We'd come up to a few hours (sometime hour) before days end, and be begging for a hammer vote some days. I'm just at the point where I feel like we need a flip, so eh. Toto's lynch is fine with me. Quite fine with it.

Toto seems like a very randomly picked mislynch at this point. Between dave, toto, lethargy, deers, cracker(KT) we could have basically picked anyone, and we have little reason to differentiate between these slots.

Then why fight against the Toto lynch? If you feel so strongly that he has some shred of townieness sincerity, quote it. L1.

There is no counter wagon going on. Yet there is a bunch of talk against the likely lynch today. All I'm skimming here is

"oh god why him? anybody could have been picked out of X peeps. blah blah blah.

" and the name that continues to stand out the most to me is Dave. Dave seems to be the next viable lynch out of everyone here in line with Toto. Yet there is only one vote on the guy. Hell Chilled straight up said he was scummier than Toto. Yet no vote.

Transcend doesn't seem like a viable lynch right now. Yet Gamma continues to vote him. Why? If you do not feel as if Toto is scum and is a likely mislynch then you should vote for someone who has a better potential at flipping scum and is somewhat of a viable lynch. Yet he is opposed. He happens to aggree with Chilled though.

Chilled voting Lethargy? It probably aint going to happen unless they swoop in and say something so bizarre that it straight up earns them a scum quick lynch. Yet he is opposed or questions the Toto lynch and feels as if he has some town sincerity in his posts. Posts that he has yet to quote or go into detail on. Mixed with his above statement.

Keyen is on a old lynch option. Who knows what is going on in his head there.

The only person here who has actively voted against the Toto wagon is SSBM.

I mean, hell. TOTO HIMSELF ISNT EVEN VOTING AGIANST HIS WAGON.

I straight up wouldn't be shocked if Toto flipped Town or Scum. I think his flip will give us some juicy things to go off of tomorrow though. Thats for sure. If he flips town, I might not be against thinking a scum trying to pretend to be against the lynch knowing he'd flip town either.

btw. How am I the one with little to no stances here when LQ has been sheeping every vote when he isnt voting empty slots?

--

Fascinating

, as in I'm rather bored and unimpressed with this push currently.

UNVOTE: Toto

Pretty sure he was at L1. If not, damn.

I'll cast a vote later tonight when I have more time to read in depth.

sigh

VOTE: Dave

Hopefully tomorrow will be better.

tl;dr - Aubrey thought Toto would be a good lynch for information so I think I got Aubrey and alban confused when I was talking about refusing to hammer. The most consistent SR from Aubrey was directed at LQ but he also didn't think highly of me or Transcend. He disapproved of Gamma's actions a lot of the time but I feel like that was more of a playstyle clash than anything. The quotes with blue highlight in them are an interesting point on chilledtea

[ssbm_Kyouko]

so yeah I'm still sitting at either LQ+Toto or LQ+Transcend

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Don't remember you asking me about either of them so I scrolled back and saw you did ask me if I have no opinion of creature so I'll count that I guess. I'm not interested in voting either of them at this point in time.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I said either lq and Trans or lq and toto imo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ssbm, you may not be interested in voting either of them but I am interested in knowing what you think of them.

o maybe that wasn't clear enough. My opinion of them is that they are not worth voting for because they are not as likely to be scum as Transcend or Toto plus LQ

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also Vedith is replacing out and has barely been here since the scumdeers slot replaced out so I don't have a specific opinion on him right now. Creature has town motivation to what he's doing so far even though his reason for voting me is bad (metaing me off 1 game in which he didn't have to read me because he was scum and I was town, add that to the fact that he's admitted to thinking meta is garbage except when it's playstyle based). He's trying to figure out what makes sense and it looks like town to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't see their interactions as tvt, which leaves at least one as scum. Transcend I've already explained, and Toto is mostly based on how his wagon built to L-2 or maybe L-1 and he said something like "I was town" and suddenly nobody wanted anything to do with his wagon. A somewhat close to deadline counterwagon rapidly formed and resulted in a far too easy lynch on Dave compared to Toto's wagon which had a lot of vocal resistance. Toto's wagon was being led by transcend iirc so if Toto is scum I think Trans is probably not, and I think the opposite holds true as well.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

For the second time my reasons have already been explained. I think town!Transcend would have voted LQ with me and to display that I am confident in this read I will be voting you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

scum!Transcend would be looking for a different mislynch than Toto today but since LQ is your partner you don't bite. You see me as LHF and try to flip around on me so now I am pretty sure for myself which of you is LQ's partner, but the lynch wagon yesterday does not make LQ and Toto an impossibility so I keep that option open. I'm voting you to keep you from trying to flip the lynch onto Toto again if I go for LQ

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think you're more dangerous than LQ
I'd lynch him if that's the way the day's going but I want the rope on you today

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think you're more persuasive than LQ is and since there are no PRs in this game that's all that matters

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vice versa is true trans, and I'm not grudging just calling it like I see it here. Could be wrong but I don't think so

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I thought creature was the only one voting me is there a wagon on me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've noticed you have a tendency to stop lynches by making posts that look basically like this:

Hi

This guy's a mislynch

Bye

Seen it happen before and I don't have experience with LQ.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also seen you lead lynches with similarly short posts before

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait I feel like I missed something somewhere when did you vote LQ

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Missed it while I was doing Aubrey ISO earlier
VOTE: LQ
Gonna do response to 2129 now though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait I feel like I missed something somewhere when did you vote LQ

Missed it while I was doing Aubrey ISO earlier
VOTE: LQ
Gonna do response to 2129 now though

I don't buy this, and why did it take me telling you to vote LQ to vote LQ?

It took you voting LQ like I asked you to in the first place to vote LQ, bussing is bad in this setup so either I'm wrong or you're playing in a way that helps me from my POV

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok so it's either Transcend+LQ or Toto+LQ imo and my best read is on LQ so I'm gonna urge you Transcend to vote LQ for cw purposes. If he flips scum I'll vote Toto tomorrow, and if Toto flips town after that I'm gonna be watching you like a hawk so you'd better NK me at that point if you want to live

This is still where I stand

[ssbm_Kyouko]

However your reasons for voting me don't add up.

You think I'm scum with LQ? I really want to see a detailed thought process on that one because no pun intended it doesn't name a lick of sense.

And I'm only conditional scum with LQ? If I'm not scum then Toto (?) is?

And you said you'd even be willing to lynch Toto with an LQ scum flip.

But now you're voting me, this only happened after i voted you.

And your reason for voting me is so wrong it almost sounds like bullshit.

When have i been persuasive this game?

I told everyone that Dave was likely a carefree townie and look who got noosed. I didn't persuade to lynch outside of that slot at all.

Not trying to say you're conditional scum based on LQ, but that you're conditional scum based on Toto. If Toto is scum you'd be town imo, and vice versa. When Toto was getting run up he claimed town early as though he'd been hammered and suddenly nobody wanted a thing to do with his lynch. You were low on the Toto wagon advocating for the lynch and I don't see any reason for you to hard bus in this setup so you can't be scum

with

Toto. Unless all 3 of you are scum with huge nuts making a gambit like this:

Spoiler: The only reason Toto was cleared

What is the VC?

Intent, if its not already there.

VOTE: Toto

were you town toto

yeah, I was town.

This was a very frustrating game tbh I'm glad I'm out of it.

LQ you fuccboi.

Pretty sure he's at L-1

yeah, I was town.

This was a very frustrating game tbh I'm glad I'm out of it.

I wish I had more time to post and read through the full game but It is going to be a bad week at work.

Lynching for information would generally sound good to me however right now feels really stupid because I already know the result and I realize it is a bad idea anyway. We should lynch the scummiest read of each because THAT maximizes information for town.

If you think Im scummier than Dave by all means hammer me. I really hope you have a plan of what to do when I flip green. I would suggest lynching Dave tomorrow but I realize I may be tunneling here and it is your call.

If not the best thing for town is to vote your strongest scum read. There is 100% chance I will flip green. I realize you don't have to take my word for it but it is the truth.

I did not have other stronger scum read other than Dave. I was scum reading gamma before because of game avoiding and somewhat iioa comments, and also for that weird comment he made about someone bussing dave but lately gamma townesd up a bit. If Dave flips scum Transcend would be a good candidate to look at next.

I really don't know what to make of everyone else in my wagon right now since Im pretty pissed off by a this. But I doubt everyone in there really thinks Im scummier than others and there must be a good reason for why they are voting me.

Not much has changed since here. Alban is really pinging me more now. He put me in a difficult situation: if I talk I get lynched. If I don't talk I get lynched too.

Also, sorry I didn't mean to misgender anyone. It was not intentional, please don't take it personally.

But damn if this doesn't look like a Townie reaction.

UNVOTE: Toto

Pretty sure he was at L1. If not, damn.

I'll cast a vote later tonight when I have more time to read in depth.

UNVOTE:

but I think that's not it. How fast the unvotes came just stinks though and I think the collapse of that wagon was orchestrated somehow, and the person who placed the fake hammer was LQ so that implicates him. The person who asks if Toto is town was you so that implicates you in it too, but not as much. LQ and Transcend as a team is a stretch which is why I was hoping you'd vote LQ to disconfirm that theory. That theory being that you 2 were acting suspicious around the alban wagon, and that you guys orchestrated the Toto thing to pocket him and flip the lynch onto another easy lynch in Dave.

Definitely willing to lynch Toto with a scum!LQ flip considering LQ was both the person who fake hammered and the person who pointed out toto's reaction was townie.
Voted you because you wouldn't vote LQ when an LQ wagon is what made sense, so I was thinking he must be your partner

This game you haven't been so persuasive but I've seen it in other games

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That theory being that you 2 were acting suspicious around the alban wagon, and that you guys orchestrated the Toto thing to pocket him and flip the lynch onto another easy lynch in Dave.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would they let me live when my lynch was all but done?

It would be a gambit to gain towncred from you and others

VOTE: Toto

I am also dissatisfied with this vote. I see what you mean about his tone being the minimal but why were you so sure he was town yesterday? Did you also believe he was hammered at that point, and if so, why didn't you check the VC before voting? It looked to me afterwards like you were reaction testing him with that fake hammer, or was that not the case?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

LQ's L-2 right now, I'm the only new vote since the last VC in which LQ was being voted by Kain Tepes, Transcend, Chilledtea in that order. Kain's vote was just another instance of him typing vote because he never unvoted or switched votes between last VC I don't think.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

L-1 for clarity

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So far Creature is a townread. I'm not giving a reason behind that cause it would be anti-town to do so.

Toto you currently don't have a vote on someone, so that slightly concerns me so nullscum lean.
LQ really hasn't tried to advance the game. Also don't like when he had his vote on Kain when apparently he had other scumreads. Not to mention he basicly voted Kain for his playstyle because "it's wierd"

Gonna look at the other nerds including you more indepth.

was gonna call you out on "anti-town" because obviously that's a PR reference but you noticed the setup so yeah

Thx

You're a cool dude

Aww thanks, that means a lot bud.
Also I can understand why you don't like Kyouko.

Hey you take that back as soon as this game is done that Transcend post about me being one of his faves on the site is going straight into my signature

senpai noticed me

Also, I was just going to suggest nobody unvote LQ because I figured Keyen would hop on the wagon and sit there if he didn't have to hammer
but that was brazen

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also instead of saying anti-town in the future should just bs a reason why you townread them, because if you're confident you've caught a town PR and you're a vanilla, you let yourself get lynched for faking a townread before you risk outing them as pr, especially as strong a PR as a cop

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also LQ mod's probably asleep, got any last words? Keyen hammered

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok so it's either Transcend+LQ or Toto+LQ imo and my best read is on LQ so I'm gonna urge you Transcend to vote LQ for cw purposes. If he flips scum I'll vote Toto tomorrow, and if Toto flips town after that I'm gonna be watching you like a hawk so you'd better NK me at that point if you want to live

This is still where I stand

This is still where I stand

VOTE: Toto

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but LQ pulled the wagon off of Toto with his fake hammer so Toto must now be destroyed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Idk KAIN TEPES was an early proponent of an LQ lynch iirc. Might be remembering wrong though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I could maybe get behind creature also because bussing is so suboptimal in this setup. Toto, Creature, Gamma, and ArcAngel9 were the players not voting LQ at lynch. Gamma and AA9 were and still are my only strong TRs (but AA9 died) so that leaves Toto and Creature. I'd prefer Toto though because LQ saved him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

They're most PoE.

KainTepes could actually be scum trolling all the game.

You're a paranoia read, I yet don't know how to read you properly.

chilledtea is actually a playstyle issue and I don't like sorting players like her.

I only have a case on ssbm. I think she's different from Newbie 1752 and today's still the same.

That was my first game of mafia ever I'm starting to get insulted that you think I should be playing the same about 8 games later

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait is Alisae really hammered or are you nerds joking again

Gonna be mad if this flips town, if I die overnight don't forget it's LQ and trans or LQ and toto

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How come nobody tried to check whether alisae has been hammered? ssbm seems to point towards it with the "are you joking" line, but doesn't try to make the effort of checking the votes on alis.

I assumed you guys were being idiots with fake hammer reaction tests again so I didn't bother checking since I was on my phone at the bus stop to work. Fake twilight means nothing to me because anyone can check VCs and then pretend that they didn't

Okay I can see Alisae and creature after creatures arbitrary assumption that LQ has to be bussing me there and his complete ignorance of the fact bussing is a bad play in this setup, and his ignorance of the other players LQ never voted, which include keyen and himself. Not going to bother looking at how substantiated LQs vote on Alisae's slot was, probably a similarly bad reason to the reason he gave for voting me. Either way he never votes Creature slot and bussing is bad here, combine this with the nonstop absolutely garbage reasoning Creature's been providing for scumreads since replacing in this is fine.

VOTE: Creature

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gotta reread my initial suspicion of Gamma at dawn of D2 based on his alban 180 but idk if that will really change anything for me. Will see how his reaction to my vote seems, but I bought it back then

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I dual-ISOed myself and Gamma around the time I was talking about and I think he help up pretty well. Not sold on voting him at all. To be fair I was at a point where I was giving 0 shits about this game around the middle of D1. I'm gonna go back and look at some big moments involving LQ specifically that D1 alban wagon. We have his alignment confirmed now so I think that could be telling. Might drop some VCA now that we have 4 flips but probably not, that takes a lot of time which I don't have in the middle of my work week

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah what about me?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah he's town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but Creature is not

[ssbm_Kyouko]

but Creature is not

What do you make of the fakerhammering?

I've already answered this but I'll restate that they're worthless as reaction tests because people can just check the VC and pretend that they didn't check it

Also, hi ssbm

Hi, do you have a question for me or are you throwing shade at me for being involved in other games at the moment?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Though, ssbm_Kyouko and Transcend both posting elsewhere is bothering me.

Hey surprise we play in a lot of games and I was busy all day yesterday with friends and getting my ears gauged, I'm catching up in other games that need more of my attention. I've already caught you so I've got this game on the backburner

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I'm soaking my gauges atm trying g
To find where trans votedgamma cuz that didn't sound right, what's with all these filthy sheep votes

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Scumteam! Alisae/keyen wouldn't be this obvious would they?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ssbm, can you explain your suspicion of Creature?

PEdit:

How come nobody tried to check whether alisae has been hammered? ssbm seems to point towards it with the "are you joking" line, but doesn't try to make the effort of checking the votes on alis.

I assumed you guys were being idiots with fake hammer reaction tests again so I didn't bother checking since I was on my phone at the bus stop to work. Fake twilight means nothing to me because anyone can check VCs and then pretend that they didn't

Okay I can see Alisae and creature after creatures arbitrary assumption that LQ has to be bussing me there and his complete ignorance of the fact bussing is a bad play in this setup, and his ignorance of the other players LQ never voted, which include keyen and himself. Not going to bother looking at how substantiated LQs vote on Alisae's slot was, probably a similarly bad reason to the reason he gave for voting me. Either way he never votes Creature slot and bussing is bad here, combine this with the nonstop absolutely garbage reasoning Creature's been providing for scumreads since replacing in this is fine.

VOTE: Creature

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Mod - VLA through Jan. 2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In fact, really wouldn't be surprised if gamma + ssbm are scum.

I would be surprised

[ssbm_Kyouko]

the suspense is killing me

Spoiler:

omg he said killing
he must be scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I miss your old avatar

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Implying you weren't already a sheep

[ssbm_Kyouko]

NKA is stupid and please don't do it. I've been a victim of being framed by it and you know it. It can be the same way here.

PEDIT: Yes, Alisae is clear cut flailing. Against you, and against me. I'm gonna try sorting everyone else's slot though to see what I ultimately want to do.

Night kills have been on widely TRed players all 3 nights. Obvious pattern which makes sense considering there are no PRs in the setup. AA9 was killed last night because Gamma pointed out how obvious it was that he was town for clearing the Toto slot, and it convinced me, a completely lost town with no good reads that alban was town. I'm sure others who weren't already TRing alban were convinced by that somewhat. Aubrey was also widely TRed, and chilled was getting TRs from quite a few players. IMO, the people TRing chilled yesterday are probably less suspicious because scum seem to be trying to keep a townblock from forming by killing the town getting TRed by the most other town players.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i didn't read a word aa9 said

i just tr'd alban lol

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Possible that lq/trans/toto were actually huge-nutsing it the whole time around the toto hammer, I'm willing to test Transcend's conviction in toto/ssbm team here I think he might be scum trying to take suspicion off toto by flipping me as town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Meant to VOTE: Toto there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: TOTO

it's not bolded don't count it

This posts LACKS CONVICTION,,

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It just helps see who hasn't voted each other right? Wasn't Albans day 1 wagon the counter to keyen? And was being pushed by LQ? Food for thought in case I die, but needs verified cuz I'm phone posting without checking

[ssbm_Kyouko]

mmm, I don't see how Transcend could want me dead today especially after finally finishing a scumgame with me recently. Will wait for reasons though.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lol so do you play the same way as scum?

Probably, I've only been scum once, and I'm bad at it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

probably not exactly the same but I haven't had enough scum games to figure out what works for me yet

[ssbm_Kyouko]

of course I'm not including my ongoing games, they don't exist

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hi

[ssbm_Kyouko]

possibly, not sure about you, which is why I'm testing whether you're genuine about pushing Toto

[ssbm_Kyouko]

nah creature is still fishy from yesterday

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I haven't read for bussing, since i can't really tell if it happened or not. Will say I'm seeing a lot of people talking about how I was hesitant to lynch LQ but I wasn't might have looked that way but I didn't feel that way. I just wanted to know if Transcend or Toto were with him and I was thinking Toto since eventually Transcend voted LQ. I'm still operating on that old post you called me scum for, lemme dig it up:

ok so it's either Transcend+LQ or Toto+LQ imo and my best read is on LQ so I'm gonna urge you Transcend to vote LQ for cw purposes. If he flips scum I'll vote Toto tomorrow, and if Toto flips town after that I'm gonna be watching you like a hawk so you'd better NK me at that point if you want to live

This is still where I stand

This is still where I stand

VOTE: Toto

So yeah, I'm still operating on the assumption that it's either Toto+LQ or Transcend+LQ. As long as we get them I think we win. People think I'm the one that was late to vote LQ but I'd been trying to get Trans to go there from back when he was being pushed, I think by LQ actually. Tomorrow is LyLo unfortunately so only time for one of you before crunch time

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm OK with this but when I flip town you must kill transcend tomorrow

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It will confirm that transcend lacks the conviction to vote toto now that I've caught on to him, notice each time I bring up this post transcend gets aggressive

[ssbm_Kyouko]

But toto doesn't, because transcend is the scumpartner and he tried to convince me he wasn't by bussing LQ, but it is not too late to check both of them

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What am I wifoming here? What is your point? That I waited to vote lq until you voted him? I am the one that asked you to vote him

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wait, is Vedith doing anything here?

My Lord and Savior.

Pedit: no, and i think he's probably scum with lq and toto.

I think toto is scum with Vedith and either LQ, chilled, or ssbm
In that order.

So what happened to this also? Now that we've seen scum lq why do you not still think you are right about toto/Vedith/LQ?

Also my 1857 is where I partner hunted. I can't remember why I was isoing Aubrey, I think it was for nka. But I was pretty sure you were the partner by your reaction to 1857, but then you voted LQ while I was isoing Aubrey. I vaguely remember Aubrey iso had something to do with Creature, may be wrong

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I literally said lq is with either you or toto, and was implying you should vote lq to prove I'm wrong about you being scum so that we can lynch toto the next day, only we lynched gamma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Look bud you can try this all you want and I'll self hammer if you can l-1 me but I know you're scum, you say I never asked you to vote lq but read 1857. In it I urge you to vote LQ, long before chilledtea asks you to. Scrolled through most of your wall after realizing how obviously you're misrepping me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like I know you can tell I'm town here so just lynch your other partner and you can surrender to town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What's wifomy about what I'm doing? Why would I deviate from lq+one of toto/transcend after seeing lq flip scum? Why are you deviating from that now? I feel like the obvious answer is that scum!Transcend bussed LQ to appease me but didn't expect me to follow through on my original theory

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Acting like defensiveness is a scumtell, town doesn't want to be lynched anymore than scum do except when dying for the purpose of proving their arguments come from town

Which btw is why I'd be fine getting lynched if you're the one to hardpush it, because I think town!you can read me and my lynch would lead the rest of the town to the last scum. I don't think I make sense with anyone for scum and you were talking about looking at teams earlier but I don't remember you really finding any way to incriminate me with that
Pedit:1
That wasn't an excuse, I was waiting for you to vote LQ since 1857 and I'll scream that to my death so the rest of town will remember how right I was and how hard you misrepped me in your push

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you think I make sense with anyone as scum? I want theories from you that account for town!Me so you can't flip your attention to what's convenient tomorrow after I do flip

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And I'm not crumbling I'm just high, watching yugioh, calling you out for misrepping me on this stuff

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So if you think it's wfg why do you not vote him? If we're scum distancing then either of us dying is a loss for scum and a win for town.
Answer: you're scum with toto and you tried to throw me off by bussing lq, fact remains is that LQ stopped the toto wagon and he still makes sense with LQ for that. You were also involved in the fake hammer around Toto, thinking that was a huge nuts WFG involving the whole scumteam based on how you suddenly forget your Toto read after seeing LQ flip scum. You said it was toto and Vedith with one of me, chilledtea, LQ, but chilled and I both voted LQ so I don't understand how you rationally get to me being scum after that

Oh well that's fine but I literally can't be caught scum here I'm green

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This feels like something of a concensus but toto doesn't act like scum with transcend here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If trans scum then with Ali or keyen, this is directed at creature

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm, interesting vc

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gonna read your wall now see if it checks out

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Trans I take it that you asking Alisae to vote me means you TR Alisae? Scum won't bus here because 1 more is a loss.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I understand your case on me but it's based largely on misunderstandings, the only thing I noticed in your wall that would be a good reason to SR me is that I never gave you that detailed response to 2129

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Of course you can't know you're misunderstanding some things because you don't believe that I was in the midst of isoing alban/Aubrey, can't remember which it was at this point but I think it was aubrey

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No I'm here I'm hammered I'm town AMA