Mini 1860 - Game Over!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh hi raskol

OOH, GARY
VOTE: gerryoat

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hmm. ok

VOTE: Keyen

[ssbm_Kyouko]

L-2 I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Uzi, Gear, Vij, me, TwoFace makes 5 total out of 7 for lynch is L-2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

For great justice

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Looks to me like Gerry's following up on the last post he made. Glad we're rolling now though.
Keyen - why so concerned about whether or not we're in RVS?
Gerry - why not participate in the fun early on?
JarJar - what makes you pick out TwoFace's vote as the casual one over Vijarada's and mine?

VOTE: Gear
Voting TwoFace arbitrarily looks bad to me. You should be able to tell that Dave's post is one of someone who is more used to a faster paced mafia environment where random speedwagons are common D1, so he shouldn't be a consideration.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Keep an eye on Vijarada or Gerry?

*steals pagetop from mod*

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Gear
Voting TwoFace arbitrarily looks bad to me. You should be able to tell that Dave's post is one of someone who is more used to a faster paced mafia environment where random speedwagons are common D1, so he shouldn't be a consideration.

Lol WTF what kind of expectations are these
Clearly, you should be able to infer from the style of his posting that he is from a faster paced environment, and in such environments speedwagons are more common, so he shouldn't be a consideration for you based on that.
Jesus christ what is this projection do you actually expect this much out of people?
Not to mention that even if true that doesn't somehow clear, it would just make the thing nullish.

It wasn't the style of his post, it was the content of his post. Anyone who would say this:

Either keyenpeydee hasn't been lynched yet because scum don't want to lynch their buddy, or people are being cautious.
One of the two, really...

is clearly is used to an environment where keyen might have actually been speedlynched for no reason. The fact that Keyen wasn't lynched is not because scum don't want to lynch their buddy or because people (town) are being cautious. It should be apparent to everyone involved that the wagon is not going to reach 7 because scum won't hammer town at that point in the game (because it gives them away) and town won't hammer anyone at that point in the game (because it gets them killed the next day). Gear should not have read that post and taken it seriously enough to consider voting Dave for it, he should have been able to tell it was a post indicating Dave's experience, not alignment.

It does make things nullish, that's the point. Gear chose between voting 2 people arbitrarily (according to him) and ended up on TwoFace. However, by choosing arbitrarily he implies that they are equally suspicious, or at least that they are close to the same level of suspicion. Since Dave's post is NAI, the choice should not be arbitrary between Dave and TwoFace. It should be a clear choice of TwoFace unless Gear thinks that TwoFace's vote was also NAI, and if TwoFace's vote was also NAI Gear should be looking someplace else for something scummier or just keep his vote on keyen since it's just random there.

Do you really think it's unreasonable to expect people to recognize what I did about Dave's post?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Kyouko I think you are just reading too far into it out of what looks like eagerness. I've played a bit and I hesitate making that same judgement you are (it's giving the benefit of the doubt at any rate) and even those who'd agree wouldn't go as far as to say it's obvious or clear. IMO it's giving people too much credit on both counts, on the assessment itself and given that, that people would think the same and reach your conclusion.

However, by choosing arbitrarily he implies that they are equally suspicious, or at least that they are close to the same level of suspicion.

This part too, most people do just go willynilly if it's earlygame rvs-ish there to vote for the sake of it, and your approach/analysis here would fit more in a later-day context. IOW you're probably better questioning/wide-focus this point as you run a risk overanalysing shallow things if you go that deep this early.

I'm not eliminating anyone from my d1 lynches yet. I don't even see the analysis of those posts as deep either, it was an obvious conclusion to me that what gear said was contradictory, so that's why I'm on him now. Still early so I'm still watching people. Until someone does something more suspicious than gear or gear does things to make me tr him my vote will stay. As it turns out I was right about Dave though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'd have to reread to see what all this jjd business is about but it seems like he's just been rubbing people the wrong way.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah I was just recounting votes, looks like current t votes on JJD are Tywin, Gear, Grey, Gamma. Want to look back and see when and why they chose to vote him.

Only thing I disliked about the JJD iso was the strong tr on Raskol so early in the game. Was gonna read Rask's iso through the point JJD outed that read to see if I could see a townlean at least.
I'm at work and have a friend over after today but will get to these things as soon as I can

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Do you think JJD had good reason to TR you in post 181 Rask? If not, why did you ignore his tr on you but not vijarada's? And JJD, if part of your reason for TRing Raskol was that he questioned a shitty tr on him (213), why do you continue to TR her when she inconsistently ignores your shitty TR on her? Trying to make sense of this. Raskol, why isn't jarjar being lynched? This doesn't look right

VOTE: JJD
L-2

[ssbm_Kyouko]

One of the best towntells is when you scumread someone but don't explain it and then someone comes along and explains it and it's what you have. I call it mirroring and it's what looks like what jarjar experienced.

I know it's awkward looking for you guys but I buy it.

You're saying that JJD TRs you because he was unable to explain his SR but you were able to put it in words and your words are what he was thinking in the first place, right? This makes sense if it's what you meant.

If not, why did you ignore his tr on you but not vijarada's?

?

So earlier JJD mentioned part of his reason for TRing you was that you questioned Vijarada for TRing you without much reason to. I was assuming he was right, didn't check for your post. My question is, if you questioned Vijarada, why did you not question JJD? I think your mirroring explanation answers this but if you have more to add please do

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And JJD, if part of your reason for TRing Raskol was that he questioned a shitty tr on him (213), why do you continue to TR her when she inconsistently ignores your shitty TR on her?

I think you're talking about this post:

I agree w/ his keyen read and I like how he questioned Vijars shitty townread on him (which BTW Vijar ignored).

the "him" is referring to keyen. Rask pointed out that vijars read on keyan was bad in 98

Oh yeah I definitely misread that. The pronoun confused me and that looked like a huge inconsistency the way I read it the first time.
VOTE: Gear
Back here for now, I'll have to reread the game and take notes sometime soon but I'm working a lot lately. There seem to be more than a few people looking at Keyen, PD, and Gamma so I'll have to see what all that's about in more detail. Not really feeling any of those from the phone skimming I've been doing to keep up lately though.

Do you think JJD had good reason to TR you in post 181 Rask? If not, why did you ignore his tr on you but not vijarada's? And JJD, if part of your reason for TRing Raskol was that he questioned a shitty tr on him (213), why do you continue to TR her when she inconsistently ignores your shitty TR on her? Trying to make sense of this. Raskol, why isn't jarjar being lynched? This doesn't look right

VOTE: JJD
L-2

Found the name. Kyouko is the one who defended Dave and claimed his play was clearly 'fast paced environment.' Now I see Kyouko wants to quicklynch JJD? What are your reasons for this vote Kyou? Could you explain why JJD is scummy and Dave is not?

I was voting JJD when you made this post so I'll address this. I gave the only reason I had for voting JJD in the post in which I voted him. I no longer think he's scummy since my read was based on something I misunderstood now that it's been shown to me who "him" was referring to. I never said Dave is not scummy. I think he's been really inactive and people who are scumreading him seem to be doing so for post 63. The first thing I thought when I read that was that he's from a chatbox mafia site because it doesn't make sense to assume the second of those things.

That doesn't seem like a townie statement. Townie TwoFace should watch everyone regardless

This is absurd. I can't be suspicious of everyone. Townies should not be suspicious of everyone when the math proves town outnumber scum. I'm not going to be "keeping an eye on" people I don't think are scum. I honestly don't believe that you don't understand the reference.

He claims he isn't telling anyone else what to do after the fact, but told 'town' to watch me in his original post.

Why do you go and lie right now? I never told anyone to watch you. Here's what I said.

^ smh

Mental note. Keep an eye on that guy

You should be smart enough to know what mental note means. I didn't tell anyone anything and don't appreciate you and keyan twisting the truth.

So mental notes are like things that you keep to yourself though. It seems like a stretch to say that Tywin and Keyen are twisting the truth because it looks pretty easy to interpret your posts the way they seem to be doing. Putting you three together in iso doesn't really show me anything right away either so again I'll need to take notes to figure out what I think of the fight going on between Tywin/TwoFace. Both of you look pretty earnest though so that makes me lean towards this being TvT, keeping any other information aside.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Luv your vote is in spoilers currently so it may not be noticed by the mod.
I'm still at work but I'm free afterwards and this will be the game I read the most tonight. Without double checking posts or analyzing the grey wagon looks legit to me and I expect that's where my vote will be about 7 hours from now after I get off work and take notes on my PC. Starting to be able to scratch people off my naughty list and narrow down lynch options. TF and Tywin look town after the way they argue with each other. Not leaning town on any of the 4 in focus atm (Gamma, Keyenpeedee, PsychoticDave, Grey) so I'll probably vote one of them tonight. Gear hasn't really been here to convince me of his alignment yet. Neither have I though so maybe he's busy as well. Didn't like Rask's early posts (admittedly because I felt like I was in the right to expect people to infer what I did from Dave's controversial post) but she looks pro-town now. JJD was an associative read with Rask and based on a misunderstanding so where I'm standing now is:
Towny: TF, Tywin
Not lynching today, but not as towny as above: Rask, maybe JJD

Ask me about my reads for the sweet deets tonight in my big reveal after I take my notes.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Good question Rask
Prepare to be dazzled when I finish these notes I'm about to start taking,

[ssbm_Kyouko]

All the mentions of TwoFace above lead me to mention a possible OMGUS read (on my part) on TwoFace. Mainly it's due to him trying to pair me with Keyan for questioning the early vote reasons on him. He then says if Keyan flips town, he's not going to watch me anymore. That doesn't seem like a townie statement. Townie TwoFace should watch everyone regardless. Whatever Keyan flips wouldn't make me more/less town. What's the goal with the pairing statement? He claims he isn't telling anyone else what to do after the fact, but told 'town' to watch me in his original post. It seems like he's flip flopping his stance based on whether he gets questioned on it or not. He also gets very defensive/abrasive about it too, which seems odd to me. This may all be OMGUS/conf bias on my part though. I'll let everyone else decide. Regardless, I find his overall play to be scummy, although maybe he just likes being an Internet tough guy. It's hard to tell RN.

I think both of you are town btw. TF looks to have a short fuse in general and there are a lot of misconceptions on both sides of this argument that blow it up.

This is where I'm at in my notetaking and it's almost 5AM here now. I don't work until 2 but I'm feeling good about a bigger crowd now and I'd lynch Keyen, Gamma, grey, Vijarada, or Gear today. Dave feels like lynchbait (or at worst unskilled scum) to me and doesn't have team associations with other players within this pool in the way that most of these players do. Dave's a better target for a vig shot than a lynch right now imo. I've seen Keyen/Gear/Vij, and Keyen/Grey, but haven't noticed Grey/Gear or Grey/Vij yet. I didn't notice Gamma teamtelling with any of them yet so I'm less inclined to lynch him despite liking the case on him (to the point I've analyzed at least). Would prefer lynching Gear>Keyen>Vij (GAP) >grey/Gamma.

Gonna plow my way through more of this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yeah this game really did blow up last night and today. Also I'm not sure why nobody noticed, probably because we're all phoneposting shitlords who don't reread the game, but TF is the one lying about Tywin, not the other way around. I'm going to reserve judgment until I see this flip but I like him for scum if grey is scum.

Spoiler: The first lie, and I found more but want to hear reactions before I post the rest

That doesn't seem like a townie statement. Townie TwoFace should watch everyone regardless

This is absurd. I can't be suspicious of everyone. Townies should not be suspicious of everyone when the math proves town outnumber scum. I'm not going to be "keeping an eye on" people I don't think are scum. I honestly don't believe that you don't understand the reference.

Whatever Keyan flips wouldn't make me more/less town.

I obviously disagree. I may not be correct in thinking you and he could be paired, but that's what I'm currently thinking.

What's the goal with the pairing statement?

To let others know that I think there's a possible connection in case somewhere down the line I'm not around. I try to be transparent with my scum reads.

He claims he isn't telling anyone else what to do after the fact, but told 'town' to watch me in his original post.

Why do you go and lie right now? I never told anyone to watch you. Here's what I said.

^ smh

Mental note. Keep an eye on that guy

You should be smart enough to know what mental note means. I didn't tell anyone anything and don't appreciate you and keyan twisting the truth.

It seems like he's flip flopping his stance based on whether he gets questioned on it or not.

I haven't flip flopped on anything actually. Please provide evidence or I'll consider this a second lie.

He also gets very defensive/abrasive about it too, which seems odd to me

Well then you will always find me odd because I'm a defensive/abrasive player in general. I've even got that I'm defensive in my signature cause it keeps coming up. If people say things about me that aren't true, I'm going to set the record straight. I'm also not in elementary school and know nobody else on this site is either so they don't get treated with kids gloves.

although maybe he just likes being an Internet tough guy

Shit son. You haven't even seen me close to my worst yet. Keep lying about me though. That's a good way to poke the bull.

The bolded portion is the lie. Post 124 is in reference to Vijarada. I asked TwoFace for clarification in 125 and he replied in 126 confirming who "that guy" was. The post Tywin was talking about was a different post in which TF did say that he would be keeping an eye on Tywin if Keyen flipped town.

VOTE: -grey-

That makes 4, 5 if you count LUV's vote, which should count according to mod's rules post, on grey now. It should be noted that I didn't find it when I was ctrl+F searching for votes since the last VC to make sure I wasn't hammering grey though.

L-2 or L-3

Also Keyen feels like he's being set up.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Raskol, JJD, Tywin, Uzi and me are voting. I didn't see you voting Gerry but I kind of expected to, maybe I missed it? I just used ctrl+F for VOTE and matched the case so if there was a vote without vote tags (ie a bolded vote) I would have missed that

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I guess consider him L-1 until official vc comes in for safety

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Just looks like a story to me, but I don't think it's worth bringing up right now since it's not like we're about to lose if grey is fakeclaiming. Rask is right though, if there is a protective they should hold their cc for later. They should also use that info to find Grey's partners.
Vij replacement should be good though, they mentioned they were having a hard time keeping up. Not coming back to Vijslot until the replacement catches up, but if it's not going to be grey today I'm going back to gear. Keyen really is too easy and there are too many instances of several (too many for all to be scum) players seemingly framing him.

VOTE: Gear

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hm. Interesting story there Tywin.
...by which I mean that's pretty scummy.

How is it scummy? Lol, you can't throw around the word to fit whatever you want. I'm sharing a story, and you consider that scummy? Okay then. Enjoy your bad reads. You'll find out eventually one way or another.

It looks like shade throwing. You don't state an actual stance, you just give an anecdote.

Shade throwing? It's just a story. I don't have an actual stance on whether grey is fake claiming or not. It frankly doesn't matter rn anyway. I just was reminded of when I claimed bodyguard in a past game while not town-aligned. It is relevant in that I believe bodyguard is an easy claim to fake, but I'm not trying to get grey lynched right now.

What is odd to me is that you look at my story, one I didn't have to bring up at all, and again you claim it to somehow be AI. You did the same when I pointed out that TwoFace lied. Funny enough, I believe Kyou came and proved it again after the fight was over. You took that opportunity to vote me for literally proving TwoFace lied about something. That was your scum read. It seemed awfully fishy and still does.

What I find extremely interesting is if grey is indeed a bodyguard, then you as scum of course would love him sheeping you. You also clearly let him lead you to a vote on me without any pushback. You didn't even question it or provide a reason why. That's awesome for scum Gamma, because you'd have an out on why you tried to lynch a townie (me) by being led by another townie (grey). Aside from that, when I asked you if it bothered you that grey was attaching himself to you, you clearly stated that no, you were very happy to have him do that. That's definitely something scum would love, but a skeptical townie would not.

Aside from that, no votes from you have ever had any conviction or real reason behind them. You've vote switched a ton of times, and every vote was useless in that you had no reasoning behind it. You weren't pushing for any lynches, and you aren't scum hunting whatsoever. You've only thrown doubt on other players, but do not ask questions in any attempt to find scum. Why? Is it because you already know they're all town?

I find that if grey isn't scum, the probability of you being scum is much, much higher.

Pinged

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Key is a mislynch

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hm. Interesting story there Tywin.
...by which I mean that's pretty scummy.

How is it scummy? Lol, you can't throw around the word to fit whatever you want. I'm sharing a story, and you consider that scummy? Okay then. Enjoy your bad reads. You'll find out eventually one way or another.

It looks like shade throwing. You don't state an actual stance, you just give an anecdote.

Shade throwing? It's just a story. I don't have an actual stance on whether grey is fake claiming or not. It frankly doesn't matter rn anyway. I just was reminded of when I claimed bodyguard in a past game while not town-aligned. It is relevant in that I believe bodyguard is an easy claim to fake, but I'm not trying to get grey lynched right now.

What is odd to me is that you look at my story, one I didn't have to bring up at all, and again you claim it to somehow be AI. You did the same when I pointed out that TwoFace lied. Funny enough, I believe Kyou came and proved it again after the fight was over. You took that opportunity to vote me for literally proving TwoFace lied about something. That was your scum read. It seemed awfully fishy and still does.

What I find extremely interesting is if grey is indeed a bodyguard, then you as scum of course would love him sheeping you. You also clearly let him lead you to a vote on me without any pushback. You didn't even question it or provide a reason why. That's awesome for scum Gamma, because you'd have an out on why you tried to lynch a townie (me) by being led by another townie (grey). Aside from that, when I asked you if it bothered you that grey was attaching himself to you, you clearly stated that no, you were very happy to have him do that. That's definitely something scum would love, but a skeptical townie would not.

Aside from that, no votes from you have ever had any conviction or real reason behind them. You've vote switched a ton of times, and every vote was useless in that you had no reasoning behind it. You weren't pushing for any lynches, and you aren't scum hunting whatsoever. You've only thrown doubt on other players, but do not ask questions in any attempt to find scum. Why? Is it because you already know they're all town?

I find that if grey isn't scum, the probability of you being scum is much, much higher.

Pinged

Bump. JJD, Rask, Gerry - opinions on this post by Tywin?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: grey
if this flips scum vig gear or havingfitz, pref gear.
L-1 I think

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'd say Rask flip soft clears jjd unless she was super pocketed.

Also in an SK game I don't think it would be unreasonable to have multiple protectives but hopefully that comes in the form of a backup doctor. SK doesnt appear that much here from what I've heard though so probably a vig

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Even more likely to be a vig since Dave was a priority lynch option yesterday though

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Will check my notes in a sec, almost home, but I don't think he was obviously not scum from memory

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Will check my notes in a sec, almost home, but I don't think he was obviously not scum from memory

Who? Rask? He was my strongest town read by far. I'm pretty sure others can attest the same. It wouldn't surprise me if that's why Rask was NKed.

If you're talking about -grey-, then Idk. I was the first to vote/go after him yesterday, but he got run up pretty fast by the obvious townies.

The people im most suspicious of at this point are those who didn't vote or were on other wagons other than key's. Mainly: Gear/HavingFitz/etc. I'd say my top scum read after -grey- is lynched is Gear.

Nah I was talking about PsychoticDave

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I caught up and still have null reads on pretty much everyone...

Like I don't see how this is "obviously not scummy"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Even more likely to be a vig since Dave was a priority lynch option yesterday though

he shouldn't have been a priority lynch. he was obviously not scum.

I caught up and still have null reads on pretty much everyone...

Like I don't see how this is "obviously not scummy"

How is scum?

not having reads is scummy? Why? How can it be?

Scum can half ass some reads.

You said he was obviously not scummy. I disagreed. I didn't say he was scum, I just he wasn't obviously not scummy. That leaves a lot of places for him to fall within my reads and for the record I felt like he was a worthwhile lynch but not obviously scummy.