Mini 1860 - Game Over!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also: meta sucks. It's lazy and bad play without a clear substantial pattern over many games, and even then, any half decent player can switch things up regardless of alignment knowing so many people on these forums think meta is useful. Unless they're a robot, then anyone can easily change their meta every game.

I see people use meta constantly in this forum and ice never understood why.

Meta sucks but there are a good group of players on this site that just become impossible to read without it. It's been more useful for me lately.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I actually think keyen could be scum here

Why?

Keyen say something interesting so I can judge it.

This feels odd, I can put my finger on why though.

[Raskolnikov]

For future reference, this is why you don't timewarp.

[Gamma Emerald]

For future reference, this is why you don't timewarp.

Huh?

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

VOTE: Gerryoat

This is a bad vote because you've played with me enough to know I say this every game. Did you finally flip maf and trying to push a vote, despite knowing that this is something that I regularly say?

@Everyone: Remember when I said that meta sucks and gave reasons why? Look at this guy ^. This is a guy that knows his meta and so uses it as a defense. He clearly thought this through beforehand.

Do we all know why meta sucks now? It allows crap like this to happen.

[Raskolnikov]

It's when you respond/react to things in the past without catching up. In this case that exact question was asked and answered since that post but he missed it.

This one is super minor and I was mostly poking fun but when people actually do it hardcore is when it gets really ridiculous.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay, I think we're out of that dumb phase, we can start playing the game now congrats everyone

VOTE: Gerryoat

This is a bad vote because you've played with me enough to know I say this every game. Did you finally flip maf and trying to push a vote, despite knowing that this is something that I regularly say?

@Everyone: Remember when I said that meta sucks and gave reasons why? Look at this guy ^. This is a guy that knows his meta and so uses it as a defense. He clearly thought this through beforehand.

Do we all know why meta sucks now? It allows crap like this to happen.

Yes but this is a minor piece of meta
It's just "I do this all the time what are you talking about"

[Raskolnikov]

Man this feels like a newbie game lol.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

It's when you respond/react to things in the past without catching up. In this case that exact question was asked and answered since that post but he missed it.

This one is super minor and I was mostly poking fun but when people actually do it hardcore is when it gets really ridiculous.

Yeah that was my bad, I just saw a whole bunch of Gerry talk and skimmed because most of it is probably NAI. I don't see what's wrong with restating your reasoning again though. I may not have understood it you know.

[Tywin Lannister]

@Gamma Emerald: it's an obvious example of how meta can be used by anyone to twist whatever they want. Yes, this is minor and not AI, but he literally has kept links to his 'meta' to show everyone how 'I always do this' is his thing. He clearly gets questioned on it in other games or who would save that? It just shows how true my statement on meta is IMO. It's an easy excuse for people to manipulate whatever they'd like in their favor. We are supposed to ignore Gerryoat's statement according to him due to his many times of 'always doing this' as if doing it before means it excuses repeating it in an entirely different game.

@Lil Uzi: what makes them impossible to read? Mafia isn't a science anyways. It's a psychological game with lots of manipulation. You really think those great players you mention can't/don't manipulate their meta? Look at GerryOats doing it. Regardless, while some players are harder to read than others, using a bad tool to attempt it isn't really a good thing IMO.

Aside from that little rant, can someone explain the keyan wagon with any clarity besides 'this looks contrived' or 'self-consciousness' as if it is anything other than your feels? That wagon got loaded fast without much of anything worth mentioning. I see a lot of 'I feel like this, I feel like that' without evidence to back up those feelings.

I also see a lot of 'your post isn't worthy, my post is!' Raskolnikov for instance making Lil Uzi apologize. Why are you backing down Lil Uzi? What exactly is wrong with you posting your running thoughts as you catch up? More posts only help garner reads. Anyone trying to shut you down without reason should be suspect.

[Tywin Lannister]

Man this feels like a newbie game lol.

How so? Explain your feels

[Gamma Emerald]

What? Can you point out where Lil is backing down?

[Tywin Lannister]

It's when you respond/react to things in the past without catching up. In this case that exact question was asked and answered since that post but he missed it.

This one is super minor and I was mostly poking fun but when people actually do it hardcore is when it gets really ridiculous.

Yeah that was my bad, I just saw a whole bunch of Gerry talk and skimmed because most of it is probably NAI. I don't see what's wrong with restating your reasoning again though. I may not have understood it you know.

Really? 158. Three posts above yours.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm. Not a strong scumread but it's better than what I've currently got.
VOTE: Lil Uzi

[Tywin Lannister]

Hmm. I didn't have it as a scum read at all really against Lil Uzi. Looked inconsequential, but I didn't like Rask's shut down followed by calling the game 'newbie' as an aside. It seems Rask is trying to avoid conversation here, and regardless if the question was about an older post (this game hasn't even been active long enough for that time lapse excuse), what exactly was wrong with the question to shut it down and claim 'this is so newbie' after? Rask said it was a joke, and then called it ridiculous for others to not take it that way.

I find all that to be far too defensive for little reason. Aside from defensive, it has not-so-subtle barbs littering the whole post sequence. Elitism/ego at work, or scum shutting down anything before it starts? If Rask is such a light hearted player who jokes oh so much, then why am I reading it differently than supposedly intended? Maybe the humor is forced? Otherwise, it may just be bad.

Your thoughts Rask?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Gear
Voting TwoFace arbitrarily looks bad to me. You should be able to tell that Dave's post is one of someone who is more used to a faster paced mafia environment where random speedwagons are common D1, so he shouldn't be a consideration.

Lol WTF what kind of expectations are these
Clearly, you should be able to infer from the style of his posting that he is from a faster paced environment, and in such environments speedwagons are more common, so he shouldn't be a consideration for you based on that.
Jesus christ what is this projection do you actually expect this much out of people?
Not to mention that even if true that doesn't somehow clear, it would just make the thing nullish.

It wasn't the style of his post, it was the content of his post. Anyone who would say this:

Either keyenpeydee hasn't been lynched yet because scum don't want to lynch their buddy, or people are being cautious.
One of the two, really...

is clearly is used to an environment where keyen might have actually been speedlynched for no reason. The fact that Keyen wasn't lynched is not because scum don't want to lynch their buddy or because people (town) are being cautious. It should be apparent to everyone involved that the wagon is not going to reach 7 because scum won't hammer town at that point in the game (because it gives them away) and town won't hammer anyone at that point in the game (because it gets them killed the next day). Gear should not have read that post and taken it seriously enough to consider voting Dave for it, he should have been able to tell it was a post indicating Dave's experience, not alignment.

It does make things nullish, that's the point. Gear chose between voting 2 people arbitrarily (according to him) and ended up on TwoFace. However, by choosing arbitrarily he implies that they are equally suspicious, or at least that they are close to the same level of suspicion. Since Dave's post is NAI, the choice should not be arbitrary between Dave and TwoFace. It should be a clear choice of TwoFace unless Gear thinks that TwoFace's vote was also NAI, and if TwoFace's vote was also NAI Gear should be looking someplace else for something scummier or just keep his vote on keyen since it's just random there.

Do you really think it's unreasonable to expect people to recognize what I did about Dave's post?

[Tywin Lannister]

I don't infer anything about Dave by his post, which is why I asked him if he believed Keyan was scum. He hasn't answered. Im still waiting. I personally don't care what kind of environment he comes from. All environments vote/lynch who they think are scum, not randomly for no reason. If Dave didn't believe Keyan was scum, why did he say what he did? If he does believe Keyan is scum, what are his reasons?

[keyenpeydee]

Why am I scummy? @whoeversaidthat

If you read someone saying you were scummy, how do you not know who said it?

What did you hope to accomplish with that question?

It looks like forced to me. I mean it's not like it's been 20 pages, it's been 6. He could have asked directly, but instead it looked like he was trying to avoid direct confrontation with someone

I'm on my mobile at that time. Your argument on me is invalid.

[keyenpeydee]

@Everyone, I'm gonna be busy this time. I'll catch up tomorrow and perhaps, read the game again so I could give my thoughts.

[JarJarDrinks]

JarJar - what makes you pick out TwoFace's vote as the casual one over Vijarada's and mine?

Looking back, I'd say ur right and they all look like they're trying to be casual.

[JarJarDrinks]

Vijarda. That was terrible reasons to vote someone. They aren't AI things.

I actually think that's a fine reason to vote someone @ this point in the game.

[TwoFace]

Ok

[JarJarDrinks]

This is a bad vote because you've played with me enough to know I say this every game.

unprompted self-metaing is scummy.

[TwoFace]

No it isn't. Useless perhaps but not scummy

[JarJarDrinks]

His vote on me is bad, but his reasoning isn't bad.

Why is his vote on you bad if the reasoning isn't?