Open 660 - White Flag (Game Over)

[alban]

I thought you said you voted for me due to my reaction to the wagon on me.
Now you are saying you scum!read me coz I persisted with keyen? Why is that scummy according to you?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE : ssbm_Kyouko

"I have a scum read on alban. If alban is scum, then transcend is scum. If transcend is town however, he will be nkd. BTW I am going to sheep transcend bcoz he tends to have good reads."

If you are town this is the most ridiculous line of thought ever. Sheeping someone who is your possible scum read is just ridiculous.

I don't think you're following what I'm saying. Transcend is only associatively scum if alban turns out to be scum. Until I know that alban is scum I'm not going to vote Transcend unless: 1) he or another player make other associative tells to lead me to believe he is scum with that player, and 2) that player is revealed by flip to be scum. I would of course vote him if I felt like he was openly scumtelling but his town play looks scummy which is why I don't judge him on his words alone, but on how others interact with him.

This playstyle will lose the game. Stop looking for associations and look for individual scumminess.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

That is what I said and that is why I voted you. I had been watching your push on keyen for about a day iirc and then I went to bed and woke up to all those pages where the wagon formed and died already, and after reading all that I decided that you were a more serious candidate than keyen.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How do you know about my (relatively decent) reputation btw.

Word of mouth in the several games we've been in together. Obviously can't go into anything specific besides PP's Mini Normal 1850, but people gave you credit there. That game is the first we played together and after that I decided a good strat regardless of alignment was to buddy you because if you're scum I'll live long enough to spot associations and if you're town you won't mislynch me again. It also works if I'm scum because scum buddy town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I began developing a scumread on alban for how hard he was pushing keyen, partly because I know that keyen is a player that is easy to push. The way alban reacted to that quick wagon with LQ and Transcend voting and unvoting in succession made him look scummier and I thought that one of LQ or Transcend would be scum with him.

These are the posts that made me reconsider if alban's push on keyen was genuine

Lol. I am not Active Lurking.

Your words against my reads. Any guesses, which one will I trust more?

I don't wanna appear patronising, especially if you are town, but surely there's something more that you could be doing with your posts?

Keyen, i am scum reading you at the moment. If you are a town, you should try to answer rather than getting defensive n omgusing n discrediting me, coz your answers can help me look elsewhere. You being defensive isn't helping the situation. My q are fairly straightfwd.
1. Why is aubrey your first real town read?
2. What does null scum mean according to you, and why am i nullscum?

A third q springs to mind.
3. You said you are null/townreading everyone except me n ssbm. We are also the only two who are suspecting you.

Is there a cause-effect relationship between who is suspecting you and whom you are suspecting?

You guys realise that this kind of wagon isn't going to work on someone like Cracker, right?
Most likely she will give up or come up with an outlandish post, which will further confirm your suspicions on her.

Plus, lynching her isn't gonna be useful in any way.
Keyen is a better choice

. Look at his posts. There's a lot more scope for improvement there. And they are capable of giving a defence.

The bolded are what jumped out at me. The questions in the first two quotes feel rhetorical/antagonistic rather than feeling like genuine attempts to clear a suspect. The third quote tells people a Cracker lynch is useless (probably true, they haven't said much) and to vote keyen instead

[ssbm_Kyouko]

This playstyle will lose the game. Stop looking for associations and look for individual scumminess.

There isn't just one scum though. Associations are useful for catching scum

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: ssbm

You're voting SSBM for this(?):

Like I originally said I'll probably sheep transcend by deadline if my reread doesn't dig anything up. I'm planning on doing my dig after work tonight. Just because others who are null reads to me don't see my top SR getting lynched does not mean I will unvote them. If I had strong townreads on several people who all were saying alban is town and I'm wrong I would consider unvoting until I dug through the game. There has been such a lack of activity in this game by so many slots that it is difficult to establish reads with any real value to them, because not everyone is interacting with one another. Without first doing my deep note-taking I'd say LQ is my only TR.

I think alban is scum. If alban is scum, Transcend is scum with him. Transcend is a likely target for a NK if he's town though, so I don't see any merit in lynching Transcend before alban, since he is only conditionally scum with alban imo. Transcend, as town, has good reads. This is why I would be willing to sheep him by the deadline. I want to take a close look at toto during my reread tonight though, since he seems to be pinging people and Transcend has FoSed him this game.

This seems like a Townie post to me.

VOTE : ssbm_Kyouko

"I have a scum read on alban. If alban is scum, then transcend is scum. If transcend is town however, he will be nkd. BTW I am going to sheep transcend bcoz he tends to have good reads."

If you are town this is the most ridiculous line of thought ever. Sheeping someone who is your possible scum read is just ridiculous.

I don't think you're following what I'm saying. Transcend is only associatively scum if alban turns out to be scum. Until I know that alban is scum I'm not going to vote Transcend unless: 1) he or another player make other associative tells to lead me to believe he is scum with that player, and 2) that player is revealed by flip to be scum. I would of course vote him if I felt like he was openly scumtelling but his town play looks scummy which is why I don't judge him on his words alone, but on how others interact with him.

This playstyle will lose the game. Stop looking for associations and look for individual scumminess.

But Gamma has a point here.

[BTD6_maker]

Day 1 VC 11

ssbm_Kyouko: keyenpeydee, Transcend, chilledtea, Aubrey
Transcend: PsychoticDave, Gamma Emerald, LicketyQuickety
alban: ssbm_Kyouko
keyenpeydee: alban

Not voting: Cracker, ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Lethargy, Toto,

Still searching for a Cracker replacement.

Deimos27 has confirmed and will replace Lethargy. Deimos27 will be out of V/LA on the 13th of December.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-15 08:30:00)

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

[LicketyQuickety]

Day 1 VC 11

ssbm_Kyouko: keyenpeydee, Transcend, chilledtea, Aubrey
Transcend: PsychoticDave, Gamma Emerald, LicketyQuickety
alban: ssbm_Kyouko
keyenpeydee: alban


Not voting: Cracker, ScumDeersAreVeryTasty, Lethargy, Toto,

Still searching for a Cracker replacement.

Deimos27 has confirmed and will replace Lethargy. Deimos27 will be out of V/LA on the 13th of December.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-15 08:30:00)

With 13 players, it's 7 to lynch!

this cannot be happening.

[LicketyQuickety]

@MOD, I think its time you called in some favors to get the Cracker slot filled

[Gamma Emerald]

This playstyle will lose the game. Stop looking for associations and look for individual scumminess.

There isn't just one scum though. Associations are useful for catching scum

Go to wiki and read about the White Flag Gambit.

[BTD6_maker]

ScumDeersAreVeryTasty has been prodded.

I am still searching for a replacement for Cracker.

(I do not know if I am allowed to invite people to replace in. I will ask Equinox.)

[Gamma Emerald]

It's allowed.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Could you explain how you think my reads on alban and Transcend are related to the white flag gambit? I don't think people are following my reasoning correctly and if there are several of you not following I'm probably not doing the best job of explaining

[Aubrey]

I find it hard to think Transcend and Alban are aligned. I find it silly for you to sheep based on rep. Especially since he is now scum reading you. If you are town, it should now be clear to you that his reads aren't super strong or correct right now from your POV. Or he is scum, and is happy to have such a delicious counter wagon against his own wagon.

In regards to what Alban said in favor of you in post 941, I disagree about SSBM not knowing who to vote as being townie. I find it NAI.

also as a side note, anybody can also complain right now about the current state of the game. Just because someone complains about it doesn't mean you should town read them for it. Scum can easily feign the same thing.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I've been town with Transcend before and had him leading/calling for my mislynch in that game though. I ended up getting lynched and was convinced he was scum but he turned out to be town. His read on me isn't correct but that doesn't mean others of his would also not be correct

[LicketyQuickety]

I've been town with Transcend before and had him leading/calling for my mislynch in that game though. I ended up getting lynched and was convinced he was scum but he turned out to be town. His read on me isn't correct but that doesn't mean others of his would also not be correct

That is the wrong way to use a meta read. You can't based someones meta on a single game, it is not possible to do it like that.

[Aubrey]

Weren't you basing your scumread on transcend due to a meta. You compared his gameplay in your game to this one, and seemed to have it as a leading factor....

[LicketyQuickety]

Weren't you basing your scumread on transcend due to a meta. You compared his gameplay in your game to this one, and seemed to have it as a leading factor....

Who is this addressed to, because it should not be addressed to me. I am Scum reading Transcend because he doesn't fulfill the criteria of Townie behavior.

[Aubrey]

....

[LicketyQuickety]

Its a vanilla game. Playing in a townie way is paramount in this type of game.

[Aubrey]

I'm aware. I've said the same thing already. However, at one point you did compare his play from your game to this game. You've only payed one game with him...have you not set up a stereotypical idea of how he should play and voting him for it. Stereotypical maybe the wrong word, but you get my drift.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm aware. I've said the same thing already. However, at one point you did compare his play from your game to this game. You've only payed one game with him...have you not set up a stereotypical idea of how he should play and voting him for it. Stereotypical maybe the wrong word, but you get my drift.

Right, and my point wasn't in reading him that way but that meta is fickle. No I haven't set up a stereotypical way he should play. He should play pro-town. Even when he is pressured he still doesn't get his ass in gear. If nothing else, its shitty play.

[Aubrey]

sigh

We are not going to go into a round two of that argument LQ.

-- Dear Diary...

My gut hates Toto and Lethargy the most. It really wants them dead. I maybe biased though against Lethargy's slot since I expected a lot more out of hydra.

My head hates LQ the most, but my gut kinda likes him. just a bit. (

shocking I know.

) Probably cause he and I are annoyed by the same things at least.

My head really likes Chilled, but my gut be thinking there maybe a skeleton in the closet...If there is one, maybe I could sell it on the black market.

UNVOTE: SSBM

I'm not opposed to a SSBM lynch. The one thing that really bothers me is, why would scum go after Alban? when the wagon lost momentum after T and LQ dropped off it? Isn't Keyen an easy spot to keep one's vote on as scum? Unless they are scum buddies...However the only tactical manevour here is if he thinks he can generate a wagon onto Alban through his accusations. Accusations that don't seem that likely to me right now.

VOTE: Toto for now.

Sincerely,
Aubrey.

[Transcend]

VOTE: Toto