Micro 662: ArcAngel's Twin Trap Mafia (Ended)

[Pine]

VOTE: Misa

I've done my own review, and I maintain that the Misa/SA tangle was not TvT. SA flipped Town, so that's solved.

[MisaTange]

What makes you think the tangle isn't TvT though?

[Pine]

Well, that reply, for one. If you were Town, you'd just tell me I'm wrong

[MisaTange]

I know I'm town and I'm going to flip town though, I want to make sure that you aren't so tunneled in that interaction isn't TvT. Which you're not convincing me in that way.

[MisaTange]

BTW, I'm super curious to hear BTD's opinions on that interaction in particular.

[milkshake]

Kop is scum and the reason we lynched Arnold was because Kop and his buddy didn't want to lynch Kop. I doubted myself at the end of day 1 foolishly. Kop is a member of the mafia!

VOTE: Kop

[Vedith]

VOTE: Spade
How about we go with my plan this time.
Afterall, Spade is more or less confirmed scum.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Vedith
Consider it an OMGUS, if you will. Cos you literally suck. This is no longer the RVS stage and we have already lost a PR, yet you resort to baseless accusations. Twice in the game I asked you, your reasons for suspecting me and all you could muster was 'you are scummy'. Screaming 'Spade is a scum' 100 times from the rooftop doesn't get my role converted to a scum. If you have a case present it.

[Vedith]

No one cares what you think, Spade.

[Spade_Ace]

And am gonna try and ignore you.

[Spade_Ace]

@Mod:

Replace me. I don't feel like I'm doing my best and I'm hurting more than helping. Also this game as a whole disinterests me.

@Everyone:

Good luck!

Is it safe to assume BTD6 is a townie for now?? Cos i dont think a scum would want to be replaced because of disinterest esp with just two days remaining for night.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Arnold Schwarzenegger

Honestly, this vote is based on a "read."

No idea why I'm suddenly voting based on a read when I have been arguing the whole time how stupid Day 1 reads with no information are.

@milkshake i know the Arnold ship has passed. But can you tell us again what those reads were??

[Kop]

Kop is scum and the reason we lynched Arnold was because Kop and his buddy didn't want to lynch Kop. I doubted myself at the end of day 1 foolishly. Kop is a member of the mafia!

VOTE: Kop

Absolutely, categorically, wrong.

If you believe that, why did you choose to vote for Arnold based on a read? This read obviously meant something, not the fact that you chose to go there purely because it was a bandwagon.

The doubted part of your post is basically trying to admit you were wrong but at the same time covering your back.

[BTD6_maker]

Vote misa

Throwing shade and then playing the "caught for the wrong reason" game.

>throwing shade
>admitted inthread that I reworded the post weirdly, allowing for misunderstandings which can happen. in a text-based game
>uh

Admitting things doesn't make them town.

But does it make them scum?

It doesn't, but I've played a lot of mafia and her posts are giving me a lot of gut scum vibes.

Let me try to verbalize it.

Interesting exchange

This is a very empty post, but implies suspicion on at least one, if not both, players. Yet the attack is soft enough that it's easy to either back off or choose a side later. This can mean either "both players are scummy", "one of these players is scummy", or "this may be nothing, but I'm watching it". It's just too easy to decide later what you meant and go with the flow or go with what will seem less scummy. A town player is more likely to...commit may be the wrong word, but at least tell us what they are thinking at that moment. For example, why is it interesting? What does it mean that it's interesting? I get that it's early and people will say this is RVS and doesn't mean anything, but misa saw enough to point it out, so I'd like to know why.

I'm actually reminded of the strategy that scum sometimes use where they vote their scumpartner as a means of distancing

Now we get the "why" and it wouldn't be so scummy on it's own, as wrong as it may be. There were no signs of distancing and it's way too early to expect much, if any, distancing anyway. But the real question is whether misa believes there was distancing, and again, the "why" factor is missing. We don't see why misa sees distancing rather than typical early game banter or even genuine suspicion. There's no effort to determine what is going on. Just more weak implied suspicion for no apparent reason.

I mean.It may mean something but it may mean not; I recognize that LUV's/mine's vote can equally be, uhh, that.

And now that she's been called out, she starts to back off, like I mentioned above. She's now in the mindset of defending herself and forgets all about her attack, if it even was one. A town player would probably still wonder if there is something there as far as the players she thought were distancing where instead of suddenly dropping it when it looks bad on her.

okay thenit's a small, slightly unreliable scumtellthis scumtell kind of depends on yours/tb's flip and the reason why i'm not pursuing it any further (hence my RvS vote) is that i dont like scumhunting before flips, on page frickin one

Then there's the excuse that it was rvs. No. You had a game related reason for making the vote. It may have been weak, but it wasn't rvs. But she chooses to discredit herself completely rather than describe more about what she saw that may have come from scum.

I  just realized people from here scumread uncertainty

whelp

First of all, no, it's not the uncertainty. It's the lack of anything backing suspicion that makes it feel more like an attempt to make people seem scummy than genuine suspicion. Second of all, this shows that defensive mentality again. It's "how do I seem to everyone else?", not "who is scum?".

Also notice, that misa's posts have been entirely defensive since she was questioned about her distancing comment. Not one post after that is scumhunting. It's just her trying to explain herself, which yes I understand she needs to do, but it's not a substitute for scumhunting at the same time

The real question is whether Misa's alleged shade is scummy. From the RVS, I am not sure about the "Interesting exchange" comment. It seems rather atypical of what someone would say in RVS, and it can indeed be used by scum to cast shade, but I am not fully convinced that this is truly scummy.

Again, Misa backtracks, but this could simply be coming from Town who realises that they phrased a post badly, although this could also come from scum.

I am reading the interaction in more detail, although I am leaning very slightly towards Misa being scummy here.

[MisaTange]

The above post feels fencesitty.

Also would like to hear why milkshake did that (apparently voting based on a read), and again being like "nope, I was wrong".

[milkshake]

It was stupid. I thought Arnold wasn't interested in posting that much, because was scum. Whereas Kop seemed more passionate because posts were the only way for him to win. Fortunately it probably didn't affect anything. (Probably).

Anyway, Kop is definitely scum. Why are we still scum hunting based on non-reasons. It's highly possible that Kop's wagon petered out because of the influence of scum. Our best play is to vote Kop.

[Pine]

That...actually makes a lot of sense. I could see Kop scum.

VOTE: Kop

[MisaTange]

Hmm.

I retract my earlier theory about the day one milkshake wagon being filled with scum and I feel strongly about some of the people in Arnold's wagon being scum.

People I wouldn't mind lynching at this point. Misa and Arnold. Considering there is no traction for Misa, am going with Arnold.

@Spade:

What happened to this thought process? This implies that you'll push for my lynch Day 2. Is Vedith's "baseless accusation" (to reiterate, I do not believe this) a much more important push than me?

Also I feel comfortable with a Kop lynch, but he's at L-2 atm and I feel uncomfortable putting someone at L-1 when barely 24 hours have passed.

[Spade_Ace]

Misa yes i did find you scummy on day1 and i gave my reasons for that. When Arnold turned up Town, i was certain you and Kop were the scum team cos your vite prevented kop from getting lynched and that too you changed your vote almost at the end of the day.

The only reason i am not pushing for your lynch ryt now is cos 'Sleepless' was the one who turned out killed. If it was anyone else, i would have focused on you.

Reason being.
1) SA was not threatening you at all. His focus had changed completely towards Kop. You had no reasons to kill him
2) In your last post,

I prefer Sleepless but that vote was the stronger scumlean between the two wagons

You explicitly mention you prefer sleepless as the lynch. It would be extremely stupid for a scum!misa to go and kill someone who she just said she wanted to see dead.

With Kop too the same issue arises. Why choose Sleepless as the target? There were two people suspecting him, Arnold and Sleepless. Would a scum!kop do something so stupid as lynch the only other person in his wagon?

You say Vedith's accusations are not baseless. Can you list them out?

[Vedith]

Pine could actually be scum with Spade here.

[ArcAngel9]

VOTE COUNT - 2.1

milkshake -

Spade_Ace-

Vedith

MisaTange -

BTD6_maker -

Vedith -

Spade_Ace

Pine -

Kop -

milkshake, Pine

Not Voting

MisTange, BTD6_maker, Kop

With 7 alive it takes 4 for a lynch and 3 for no lynch.
Day 2 ends in (expired on 2016-12-24 04:22:00)

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[Kop]

It was stupid. I thought Arnold wasn't interested in posting that much, because was scum. Whereas Kop seemed more passionate because posts were the only way for him to win. Fortunately it probably didn't affect anything. (Probably).

Anyway, Kop is definitely scum. Why are we still scum hunting based on non-reasons. It's highly possible that Kop's wagon petered out because of the influence of scum. Our best play is to vote Kop.

Or it could have petered out because scum couldn't drive it. Scum like to go for low hanging fruit and slots that won't have much repercussions on them, simply because they can brush it off and say well he wasn't interested in posting that much, because was scum.

[Spade_Ace]

Has everyone lost interest in the game or what? It's been a day since anyone has posted.

@Kop You seem to post only when someone is accusing you. Why are you not doing any active scumhunting?

@BTD6 can you post your opinion on people other than Misa.

[Vedith]

Spade - You town read Pine?

[Spade_Ace]

I townread pine for the entirety of day1. But in day2, I didn't like the way he concluded Misa was a certain scum and then changing the vote to Kop.

Top town reads - BTD6, Milkshake
Neutral - Kop, Misa (neutral only cos I don't see either of them opting for a SA kill)
Scum suspects - Vedith (way in which you seem certain am a scum but refuse to give reasons), Pine (for reasons mentioned above)