Micro 660: Triplicate Mafia - Game Over

[HowardRoark]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
Didn't flip a coin but since FrankJaeger claimed VT, so what else is a guy to do?

Has anyone played this setup before? I haven't and am curious to see how it plays out with this group mechanic.

[HowardRoark]

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald
Apparently only a few of us actually read the rules.
VOTE: FrankJaeger
Inaccurate and contradictory quick hammer reasoning.
It bothers me that Gamma Emerald is being overly Hubristic (43). Maybe I just feel dissed.

I agree with the case against ArcAngel9. If not locked into groups today, that would be my current vote.

Dunnstral's play is crap and is on my radar also.

[HowardRoark]

@Dunnstral: VT claim contradiction. The maths just don't add up IMHO.

[HowardRoark]

@Dunnstral: ISO ArcAngel9 and lane0168: 50, 51, 56, ...

[HowardRoark]

Early going "cases" may not be strong, but its content worth referencing now and later. I knew the rules and they were clarified before my return. What reactions would have given you what reads? An attempted quick hammer would have been a possible tell or could be attempted to be used by scum to place suspicion on the townie who actually knew the mechanics. As town knowing the rules there's no reason not to vote; even if I didn't know the rules that's at best a null. As scum there's no harm to you voting, knowing or not knowing, with an advantage to knowing. The contradictory responses don't change my vote. Interaction and following in 113 - 115 noted.

FOS: GuiltyLion

His entrance is soft push on FrankJaeger and possible buddying with Gamma Emerald. Then his most recent appearance is a poor and complete reversal on FrankJaeger with more buddying and echoing others. Group re-read pending DeathByWobbuffet's post since lane0168 has previously been the only active participant.

Re-examining the Power (ArcAngel9, Dunnstral, Secret Agent Jin) group.

[HowardRoark]

@FrankJaeger: My initial vote, since there was no concern of a quick hammer was purely RVS; thus mocking your "coin flip" decision. My current vote on you is serious.
Poorly worded and not sure if this will be better. If you are scum there is no harm in voting first. If the second vote was placed, you could quickly call that person out as scum for the quick hammer. Then, "oops I didn't understand the rules." (That's the advantage to knowing part.)
Not knowing the mechanics, as you stated, you cannot explain your way out of your failed attempt at a mislynch today. I see no explanation for what you're attempting to pass off as a town gambit. You didn't even un/change vote when calling me scum. If you were really concerned about a scum quick hammer, why provide Gamma Emerald with the chance to do the same. Contradictions. Digging your hole deeper. You grabbed the rope and tied a noose.

[HowardRoark]

Are

"no reason not to"

and

"rvs"

mutually exclusive? No. My vote was

random

with

no reason not to

vote because I understood the mechanics. So why wouldn't/shouldn't I vote quickly? Or anyone else for that matter. No need to discredit your read, just pointing out your actions and why you are scum.

VOTE: howard
Flipped a coin.

How is this different than my vote? It. Is. Not.

Town wouldnt vote like that.
I could just jump right over and lynch gamma right now.
Isnt that what you want me to do?

You believe that a second vote would cause a lynch, believe you caught scum, don't unvote. Makes. No. Sense.

Day doesn't end until all groups lynch.
So you can hammer and not fully lynch.

I over looked that rule

Now you know.

@Frank: why did you call out Howard for voting?

Me and Howard are in 2 different positions. My vote was literally random.
I dont think town would have voted at all in his position.
Scum has several reasons they would do what he did.
BUT I was more interested in his reply. Which was what exactly?

(see below for "difference" I guess. *shrug*) What reply/reaction were you expecting and how would it have helped?

Apparently what Frank said about Howard doesn't apply to him. If you thought hammers were locked like that why would you even vote?

Thats exactly what I think. If he voted first I wouldnt have voted at all.
I hate saying reaction test. Because it skews the results.
Do you think town OR scum would have hammered there? So that doesnt really matter.

Nope . . . no "difference" reasoning here.

Do you think town OR scum would have hammered there? So that doesnt really matter.

I don't get the question.
If you are town, you have to think there's a chance one of us is scum. Why would you give the opportunity to quickhammer to scum?

Well it got a reaction from everyone but the guy who mattered.
I agree, but I also realize the only person hammering is scum. Scum knows this too.

How was a reaction going to tell you anything?!?!?

You missed an important mechanic. Tried to be slick. Failed. I'm done with you. Need to focus on the other groups now.

[HowardRoark]

@FrankJaeger: I am not ignoring Gamma Emerald, but I also already have you. You obviously have not read any of my posts as to why my vote is on you. As town, believing that a quick hammer was possible, there is no good explanation for the gambit; do the maths. Another ignorant (not offensive, rather denotation accurate) town could have accidentally "lynched" town (66% random probable, 100% knowing my role). Then if in the all town group (33% possible) resulted in the mislynch of the hammering town. Your play and argument only makes sense as scum. Since I and others did understand the rules, saying my RV is scummy (159) is what is scummy. I said I am done with you and now I am. If somebody else needs clarification on my explanation I believe they actually want it instead of distracting us from finding the other scum. This is the painful part of the mechanic.

thinking SAJ is scum in power group

There's a lot going on there. Elaborate please.

Has DeathByWobbuffet just given up? It really interferes with developing the Courage group.

Power group is a mess. Secret Agent Jin's plan to let ArcAngel9 decide (129) sounds bad especially with the later flip-flop. His reaction reads a mix of genuine and AtE. I don't like Dunnstral's WIFOM (149) and 150 argument since there was time. My thoughts on ArcAngel9 still stand and expanded below.

@ArcAngel9: My posts when read in thread, or at least not quoted out of order, make perfect sense. Go back and read 79, 83-87. I don't buy into the VT versus townie argument. You dodged answering to "twisting words" thrice: 62, 65, 71 If you still can't see it, "I say it is your perception." Not parking options; being open. How does it compare to your lack of commitment to anything? "Scum found in Wisdom." (50), "Is scum lurking in Courage and Wisdom?" (77), and all of 176. IMHO thinking as one group all town today is a hindrance to finding scum or a divisive stance. I haven't done a full breakdown, but it appears that not lynching in a group is a bad decision.

[HowardRoark]

Apologies. Weekend was a bit busier than expected. I did a quick read and am giving a quick response. More will follow, but most likely tomorrow.

@Secret Agent Jin: Thanks for the PBPA with your thoughts on me. My feeling about ArcAngel9 was because of the stated contradiction. I believe that FrankJaeger was ignorant of the rule; the problem is that I believe his "reasoning" is a failed crap. Why would I need to "cover up" my Gamma Emerald vote?

[HowardRoark]

8 The initial jump on Gamma that was "RVS". Even without the ability for a quick hammer lockdown i wouldnt have done so considering the vote was there for 71 posts and i think if it was RVS and a joke vote that he would have unvoted quicker. Just my opinion, nothing too solidly scummy about the post.

131 Says he wasnt worried that his vote was on Gamma because it wasnt a quick hammer and there was no reason not to vote. I think this is a horrible attempt at covering up his Gamma vote. If we look at his post 8 vote and the post 79 Arc sentence, they both have 0 reasoning and he is just blindly jumping on people in my opinion.

134 Again, i think that his Gamma "RVS" vote was just a BS excuse for why he voted.

I still don't see what I am supposedly covering up. It was an RVS vote. You said it was not scummy. The fact that there were 71 posts between my first post RVS and second post vote change is a garbage reason. Why would my initial vote need an excuse? SMH

Why did we even let the slot get replaced instead of just lynching

Because we have the time? Because there was a raw odds chance of it being town? SMH

8 posts is pretty bad considering his role in whats been going on

Because writing multiple crap posts within minutes of each other is definitely more valuable. SMH

[HowardRoark]

@Secret Agent Jin: It was RVS with no threat of a quick hammer. I'm not sure how "no reason not to vote" translates to a scum read over any ridiculous RVS statement including the one I made.

@ArcAngel9: You have pushed Secret Agent Jin to rethink his stance on FrankJaeger versus me and didn't question Dunnstral who was already sided with FrankJaeger, yet haven't provided your own thoughts other than the initial FrankJaeger VT claim = scum. Why do you feel that you are in the all town group?

@Dunnstral: You've never stated why you keep pushing votes on me. Please enlighten me.

@FrankJaeger: If Gamma Emerald had beaten me into the thread, not understood the rules, and "hammered" me then what would your reaction and next steps have been?

[HowardRoark]

@Dunnstral: You want to not scumhunt in your group because you want responses from my group? And basically you feel FrankJaeger is town for some unexplained reason.

295 @FrankJaeger: If Gamma Emerald had beaten me into the thread, not understood the rules, and "hammered" me then what would your reaction and next steps have been? Needs to be answered as well and will not be .

The ignorance of the rules is disturbing.

I don't understand why qubixes is the current lynch selection. The previous player did nothing. He is now participating. Explain your votes! Until then . . .
UNVOTE: FrankJaeger

[HowardRoark]

EBWOP: and will not be forgotten.

[HowardRoark]

@FrankJaeger: If Gamma Emerald had beaten me into the thread, not understood the rules, and "hammered" me then what would your reaction and next steps have been?

I've not had a scum read on Gamma Emerald. I have some minor concerns, but nothing like with FrankJaeger.

@Dunnstral: Most of your posts have been about directing the Wisdom group with a splash of interaction within your own group concluding with a stance where? "I think power is most likely to have 3 town" You've. Done. Nothing.

I'd be voting GuiltyLion in Courage group.

[HowardRoark]

VOTE: FrankJaeger
I have a choice. Answer my question.

[HowardRoark]

@Secret Agent Jin: Did you just copy and past ArcAngel9's scum list?

Is scum pat on the back still a tell here?
VOTE: ArcAngel9

I need to do a bit more reading.

[HowardRoark]

UNVOTE:
+1 Gamma Emerald

[HowardRoark]

Yes, Gamma Emerald gets town cred for the unvote now post.

I still don't understand the qubixes wagon and it looks like I won't get explanations. Read reversals are acceptable, but there seemed to be no substance to yours, GuiltyLion; there's also more than that in my post against you. With the mostly absent slot that is now confirmed town, reading that group was more difficult and the lynch feels scum-dirty or town-lazy. My scumhunting should be influencing reads, I wasted enough time yesterday fighting against a town FrankJaeger.

I don't believe that thinking about the NK is a scumtell. One group had to come down to a single player. Based on yesterday's reads and probable D2 lynches who might it make sense to leave alone? The scum in a group or the last townie of the all town one? I don't have that answer, but maybe it's out there. Why are you discouraging somebody's attempt at hunting? Allow it and respond to the results.

Still trying to figure this out.

[HowardRoark]

I believe it's more town telling to ask for the unvote. Scum can do it as well, but I believe they would more likely sit back a while.

I am going to start ISOing and look for a reason to kill Lane.

also this is something that scum say way more often than town, makes em look busy

but I'd love to hear what you come up with and how it implicates me

I'll allow it - I did say I was looking forward to it - but I also won't be surprised when he comes out of it calling me scum, and I was also hoping to get more of a reaction out of him. FMPOV it's obvious the NK is meant to make me a viable mislynch for today, and I'm actually surprised no one has tried pushing it harder yet. I think scum is treading water and hoping they won't have to take the lead in trying to push me, such as Jin not answering my question about calling me confscum directly.

Sarcasm dissuades the read, thus you interfered with having a reaction. How do you feel the NK makes you a viable mislynch? LyLo creates several ML opportunities.

[HowardRoark]

@Secret Agent Jin: Which situation (post) do you want comment? The Gamma Emerald confusion? Town reads? Buddying?

@Guilty Lion: The vote was intentional as I had the time to hawking the thread. I understand where you are coming from. However, why would anyone in this game believe that I was going to hand out some town cred? I'm certainly not selling lock town. Again: How do you feel the NK makes you a viable mislynch? I see nothing but WIFOM in that line of thinking. Unless there is past behavior to support any attempted reasoning.

[HowardRoark]

So, what is peoples opinion on my situation i brought up in my previous post?

Which situation (post) do you want comment? The Gamma Emerald confusion? Town reads? Buddying?

I just wanted more information from everyone, trying to get the information rolling.

?!?!? Asking pointless questions then?

[HowardRoark]

Either Gamma Emerald and I are in the all town group and GuiltyLion is scum, or Gamma Emerald is scum. That's as much certainty as I have right now. If we had successfully lynched one . . .

I'm looking at my group's lynch yesterday to help trim that. It seems that Gamma Emerald took advantage of my break down of FrankJaeger's logic.

[HowardRoark]

Secret Agent Jin is looking like a reasonable lynch to me.

[HowardRoark]

@GuiltyLion: How is Gamma Emerald's vote/unvote different than mine?

[HowardRoark]

VOTE: GuiltyLion

[HowardRoark]

Good luck, town. I wish I had better reads, but I've given what I can. Scum is playing well in the sea of silence.

[HowardRoark]

FrankJaeger took a lot of my attention, but I was on GuiltyLion D1. Secret Agent Jin become a suspect late and if we had GuiltyLion it would have driven that look. I'm certainly not saying that it would have played out cleanly. Gamma Emerald, own your fail . . . I own mine.

[HowardRoark]

@quibixes: IMHO there would need to be a significant pattern for that individual. (Would not try to apply it in generalities.) Kudos for the correct D1 vote.