STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point I am ready for the Day to end.

Shadow is being lynched. I don’t care about potentialities or conjectures. He claimed scum in thread. He dies. End of story.

Fuzzy can shoot whoever he wants tonight. I would suggest Almost50 but if he feels that strongly about RR or Farside or Grapes he can go there. He goes outside that pool and I’m lynching him tomorrow regardless. And Fuzzy – you absolutely do need to shoot tonight.

If RR is around I’ll coordinate a hammer in thread with them and RR doing the duty.

Revised Alliances

–

MoI / Random
Fuzzy / RR
Grapes / Mastin
A50 / farside

--

I can never fail at 3+ or season Finale........ it specified in my PM

You do remember tonight is a Season Finale, right?

--

@MoI: Can you explain why we wouldn't shoot Farside tonight then, using fuzzys empowered shot? It's not a matter of her throwing in with scum for vote power, it's a matter of her potentially just winning.

At this point I’m not going to veto it. I’d prefer Almost as I am basically 100% sure that farside is not Mafia and not 100% sure that they are “Overthrow the Town” 3rd party but I’m not dead-set against it as we can always lynch Almost tomorrow if we even make it there.

--

The last Varsoon game I was in it took a SINGLE PLAYER (who controlled a dummy slot) to single handedly end the game with 11 players alive. So, if ONE can do it with 11 alive I think it absolutely possible for 3 to do it with 15 alive.

This sort of paranoia floating already was handled days ago. Again – the amount of flack Varsoon got after Bloodborne about how that turned out is exactly why I very much doubt farside can actively join with scum. Feel free to disagree but I’m not changing my mind on that.

Just THAT. Prevent the kill and catch someone who claimed to be a Town vig choosing to give a pass on an shot that was expiring and getting refunded today.

I exclaimed long ago about my own ability, and Varsoon said it gets refunded at the start of the Season Finale. However, being a 1-shot ability I could not have 2 shots at the same time. In other words I had to use my 1st shot on N3 because it would have expired at the start of Exposition 4, so that I only have 1-shot at the start of E4 (Season Finale 1). That's why I declared I had "nothing to forfeit" and opted to ally with RR on E3, so the damage to town would be minimized (if I recall correct RR had nothing to forfeit as well, so the bonus point from both alliance members willingly opting not to use an active ability wasn't there to begin with).

My point is "I thought" that was some clever trick you pulled out of your sleeve to verify whether TFL was Town Vig or not. Obviously, I was dead wrong.

Given that the Event was announced before Night I find it hard to believe you thought somehow it was a tricky trap. Hypo-scum TFL knows this. What does Fuzzy stand to gain from not using a shot you claim (and he also claimed) would be refunded in today’s climax? You are basically saying he’s scum because his team was already screwed out of their normal Nightkill and he actively chose to pass on killing a Town player when that shot is effectively lost (due to the refund mechanic). Which makes absolutely no sense. Scum Fuzzy absolutely shoots whatever Town he can realistically and says “See, I’m a proven Vig”. I mean heck there is a plausible scenario out there that supports that as a possibility but you haven't even looked that way which is why I find your Fuzzy = scum case to be so weak. It doesn't look like you are actually trying to solve the game but instead are grasping at straws.

This is really a BRILIANT stance. I'm amazed. So a MOD CONFIRMED FACT isn't really relevant, but setup speculation is the way to go. I should remember that.

What part of your Mod Confirmed ability makes any difference to whether you are scum or not? I’m very curious why you think it does.

Because that's how the game went. I didn't see a regular NK every night. Event kills ARE conditional kills. The Cluster for instance could have been stopped with more points or could've been more damaging if it wasn't somehow contained. That C.O.N.D.I.T.I.O.N.A.L in my book.

Let’s discuss this –

Night 1 – no kill
Night 2 – Klingoncelt killed
Night 3 – Not Chara and Firebringer killed
Night 4 – Titus killed
Night 5 – no kill
Night 6 – no kill
Night 7 – no kill

So on the face your statement appears reasonable. Yet specifically Night 5 and Night 7 I have stated I was the reason for the lack of kills (Night 5 protection and Night 7 the Event). So that’s another two Nights with scum kills accounted for. That simply leaves Night 1 and Night 6. Both have reasonable explanations (grapes protected by Not Chara N1, farside shot Night 6). And you are Townreading Grapes and Not Chara’s flip and testimony in the bubble PT is pretty strong evidence. So the only Night you might consider refuting as not reasonable is Night 6.

So even then – kills on 6 of 7 Nights hardly looks conditional to me.

Which is why this argument reeks of desperate scum from my point of view.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

vote Far

really its time to end this madness........................ Far get the rope today and Shadow gets the bullet tonight. I tired of this and this does is not going to end as far as I can tell.I am ready to stop this insanity. I want to lynch Shadow but as I said I am not sure about being able to vig Far with her ability, If this is the only way to stop the insanity than fine. I don't want this to drag into tomorrow which it will if Far somehow was able to avoid me being able to vig her.

Tomorrow we lynch either Grapes Almost or RR ( no particular order).......

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also looking through Almost and my PT there are some things I want to bring to everyone’s attention regarding relations to scum.

Almost beings the PT (which was during the “blind second lynch” event that resulted in Snarky not being flipped) saying that Shadow was the best choice for that lynch because he was playing to his scum meta.

I responded to this by saying that Shadow might be a “suboptimal choice” as at this point both Xk and I were under the assumption he might get a second shot at “Trap for Clods” and use it on Shadow.

In the sixth post he reiterates his strongest scum reads are the four of Shadow / TWIE / Creature / Fuzzy.

Later at 19 he says that he thinks that Xk should trap both Creature and Shadow and then decide which, if any, to kill later.

The switch in the PT starts at this point.

At 24 he says that he has deduced at, at most, only 1 of Shaddow / TWIE / Creature can be scum.

Then comes his final reads lists before the PT is locked. Now his reads are as follows:

TWIE is “Hard Town” for meta reasons.

Shadow is “Null” because of “not enough posts and not enough experience with him”

I’m kicking myself for not seeing the Cognitive Dissonance between the start of the PT and the end.

How can Shadow have been the best choice for lynch via “playing to his scum meta” when later he is Null because Almost “doesn’t have enough experience in reading him”?

The answer is – he can’t if he’s Town. The “Let’s Vote for Shadow in the blind lynch” looks very much like safe distancing since he knows he isn’t really going to vote for Shadow.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Far get the rope today and Shadow gets the bullet tonight.

No.

VOTE: Shadow

At this point I don't even care if RR gets the hammer or not since neither head is around.

@Random

- if you see this anytime soon please come in and hammer if RR hasn't already.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

unvote

vote Shadow

[farside22]

I'm my options based on rr's constant 3rd comments and lack of actually carrying about who is scum I'd not be shocked if he turned out to have a win con that needed me dead.
Just my 2 cents.

[Almost50]

What part of your Mod Confirmed ability makes any difference to whether you are scum or not? I’m very curious why you think it does.

The part that says in Season Finale my allies actions cannot fail. It doesn't make sense for Scum!Me to ally with Town!RR and/or Town!TFL specifically on Season Finale, granting them both a free "strong-willed" modifier for the night.

So, unless you think BOTH RR & TFL are scum I cannot be scum. Hell, TFL in particular claimed Vig long ago, so why would Scum!Me grant him a free pass for a guaranteed shot? EVEN if he is to shoot a Townie, he'd still be confirmed, according to you, so why would I want him to be confirmed a Townie if I'm scum?

If I was Scum I would have only allied with Scum (on all 8 days) regardless, so the Town doesn't even learn about my alliance bonus, even if it didn't work on non-Season Finale Climaxes due to stress limitations.

Also, my Event (which counted as an alliance) should not have included Town players either.. if not for the partial killing immunity it granted them then for the same reason as above: Not exposing my alliance bonus to Town. We already know we had one Scum and TWO Town in it, aside from myself and Farside.

Then again, that's just how

I

would do it, so maybe someone else would've thought differently.

[Almost50]

And Now MoI is into FIXING EVIDENCE!

1- I NEVER said Shadow was Scum for "playing to his scum meta.". I don't even know what Shadow Scum meta is. What I said was "Shadow fits the gauges I've set for myself to hunt scum like hand to glove."

How does "fits the gauges/criteria I've set = meta read??

2- Thank you for forcing me to look back at that PT. Now check post #7. I did clearly tell you the result of my check on McMenno there, so you KNOW I do have that check!

3- Again, you are either misreading or bluntly lying about my#24. SS is SNARKY SNOWMAN. S_S is Shadow. You could not have confused the two though because I explained why I thought only one of the 3 could be scum as "SS would not block his own Scum buddy, and if Creature and TWIE are both Scum the former would have warned the latter not to ally with SS."

What does THAT^ have to with Shadow? What blocking was I talking about? Now can you see how far up yours is?? YOU CAN'T EVEN READ PROPERLY! And then you accuse ME of bending logic to fit my narrative when you're bending EXPLICIT TEXT to fit yours.

4- On post #28 I explicitly told I was checking on CREATURE next, so -once again- you DO/DID know about me check ability all along. I even explained it was a 1-shot that gets refunded on Season Finale. (2nd paragraph)

5- MoI = Moron of .. what does the I stand for, please?? THAT FRIGGING READ LIST WASN'T MINE. The first line of paragraph 3 states that I was Town Reading RR and I gave my reasons, and followed that by THE LAST READ LIST THEY GAVE ME JUST BEFORE THE PT GOT LOCKED (Mine with RR that is).

I'm sorry MoI, but you are REALLY pissing me off now, and I mean REALLY REALLY pissing me off. Can't even read. Can't think. Being a stubborn mule. Pulling false/fake evidence out of your arse. That's no way to play Mafia unless you are scum yourself, and -unfortunately- I don't think you are. You're just being stupid and persistently so.

NOW GO BACK AND DOUBLE CHECK EACH AND EVERY POINT I PUT IN THIS POST AGAINST THE PT. Tell me I'm lying or being inaccurate about ANY of them. Just point out one, and I'll personally vote myself.

DAMN!

[Almost50]

GOD DAMN IT! In #30 YOU asked why Shiro wasn't included IN RR READ LIST! You DID know it was theirs NOT mine. You ACKNOWLEDGED it was RR's readlist.

[Almost50]

@RR:

Please confirm the very last readlist you gave me on our previous PT had Titus, Mastina, A50, TWIE & Fuzzy as YOUR "Hard Town" reads.

[Almost50]

I'm on the verge of making a STUPID move and getting msyelf force replaced and probably banned now. I REALLY am tempted to quote the whole PT with MoI word for word.

[Almost50]

@MoI:

When you do realize how BAD you messed up on this one, please DO give yourself a good KICK upfront that would be strong enough to send your balls up to replace your tonsils. If it's hard for you to do it (and it should be for a normal human being with a normal skeleton/body structure) then please find a mule, stand right behind them, spread your legs and put some hot chilly pepper up theirs, and they should take care of it!

[Almost50]

Damn I had something to do elsewhere on the cyber realm some 40 minutes ago and I totally forgot as I totally lost myself in here responding to MoI's false accusations. My reaction could've even been worse if my favourite soccer team hadn't just won heir game a few minutes before I logged on. Count your blessings. You see, I don't mind people making mistakes or making the wrong reads. It does get to me when they cannot reason, but even that I somehow can get by. What I can't stand is people not being able to read GOD DAMN PLAIN EXPLICIT TEXT. I say I see BLUE and they came back and claim I said GREEN, or YELLOW, or whatever. RR read list becoming MY read list is BAD. Criteria I've set becoming META is BAD. Confusing SS with S_S ay be forgiven, but NOT when DETAILS HAVE FOLLOWED WITHIN THE SAME PARAGRAPH!

@RR/@Fuzzy:

Now you see what I was talking about in my #11 in our current PT? Only this time it's not "for speaking my mind" but rather for someone else's inability to READ.

[Almost50]

THANK GOD I'm not pregnant!

This last rage frenzy would've been extremely bad for the fetus.

[Almost50]

For second time I owe everyone an apology, and ESPECIALLY MoI. I should've walked away from the computer and came back when I've calmed down. I was afraid the thread might get locked before I do though.

Sorry, MoI. Please step away from that mule before any damage is done to you, mate.

[farside22]

The magnitude of a50 rant just reads fake.
Never once did he express a scum read on expect day 1.
His flailing is this game day is just way over the top

[Almost50]

The magnitude of a50 rant just reads fake.
Never once did he express a scum read on expect day 1.
His flailing is this game day is just way over the top

Oh, yes .. of course. I forgot you can actually read PTs you're not even a part of, so you know exactly what you're talking about. Right?

Unfortunately, the mule trick only works on the male gender. I guess mules are sexist after all.

[mastin2]

So, I propose we lynch TFL today and the Gems can always bubble Shadow tonight to make sure he doesn't kill either.

The bubble mechanic is not an unlimited vig-which-the-gems-can-choose-to-undo. For obvious reasons, the gems have good reason not to define what said limitations to the bubble mechanic are. But it is not something which can be used completely and entirely freely every night. So any plan which relies on the gems' bubble mechanic on a player not already bubbled (i.e., Shiro) is not one I can endorse.

[mastin2]

Town has this game locked down, and the only way we lose is through some screwy crap like that. Removing Farside is BY FAR the safest way to prevent anything similar from happening in this game.

Yeah the problem with that is that ANY method of removing farside--lynch or kill--removes the town's lockdown.

There are only four players who can be scum besides Shadow_step (or Shiro but that resolves if we lynch Shadow_step today):
You, grapes, Fuzzy, and Almost50.

Between lynches and vigs, we have the time to remove all four if farside remains in the game.

If we remove farside from the game, we do NOT have the time to eliminate all four. It becomes a 50/50.

Your slot of ALL people should know this.
And between this, and the shit Almost50 is pulling, I fully endorse Fuzzy shooting EITHER of you because you are both pushing sub-optimal shit which makes more sense coming from final scum trying to prevent a town lockdown. Obviously you can't both be scum, but at this point I'm basically convinced one of you is. Because if not...shame on you. More shame on you in particular, since I expect much better of Reasonably Rational than pushing paranoia about farside.

[mastin2]

And yes.
farside is not groupscum.
This much, it seems we all basically agree on, yes?

Do speak up if I am wrong on that.

So, farside is proven to be some flavor of third party: either third party which is malevolent to the town, third party which is benevolent to the town (if her claim of being town-with-third-party-wincon is to be believed), or third party which is neutral to the town.

I absolutely REFUSE to push for farside's death off of the assumption she'd be malevolent third party.
If she is, so she fucking was. I'll blame Varsoon for it. It's a shitty design for the game.
Same goes for the crystal gems for that matter. They're EXPLICITLY third party: they could be malevolent to the town, they could be benevolent to the town, they could be neutral to the town. If they're malevolent, I'll blame Varsoon for making a fucking shitty hidden second scumteam. Otherwise, I simply don't give a damn.

And that's why all the third party speculation, all the third party propaganda, all the third party paranoia, all the third party worry, which RR has been pushing for basically the whole game (farside, then the crystal gems, then back to farside again), is reason I find them to be a prime scum candidate because it is trying to focus on eliminating a POSSIBLE threat, instead of focusing on eliminating the

known and

proven

threat.

So I don't give a damn about the third parties.
I don't give a damn if I LOSE to the third parties.

My interest is solely in lynching and eliminating the scum. The mafia.
And farside isn't mafia.
So I'm not going to tolerate talks of removing her from the game right now, when it's actually safer to keep her in.

[Reasonably Rational]

There's no reason to specifically be worried about having Shadow be vigged instead of lynched, simply because he gambited with the fact that he could prove he has no abilities and tried to argue that a goon made no sense. There's nothing special he could do if we don't lynch him, as confirmed by Varsoon. But he literally scum claimed so the only reason NOT to lynch him is this: if his lynch (plus shiro counting as dead while bubbled) triggers the end of the game, and if Farside (who I believe none of us believe is actually town, yes?) has a win condition which fucks us ... that would really suck.

That's really the only reason I haven't already used our hammer power to end Shadow. He's confscum and literally the only reason he hasn't eaten rope already is because Cerb and I are (legitimately, given Cerb's role in SaGa Frontier, I think) really concerned about ending the game with Farside alive.

Mastin ... thoughts on that?

~Drixx

P-Edit: Ooh thoughts. You expect us to just disregard someone who has lied at least 5 times just this day phase and whose claims are absolutely absurd? Did you skip SaGa Frontier? You should be worried if we AREN'T concerned about Farside's slot.

Also, your assumption that we have time to eliminate all potential scum is probable and may even be the most probable situation we're in, but it might not be. There are sound reasons to be concerned scum may be one more person than expected.

And don't climb up my ass about Farside. I laid out a perfectly reasonable plan yesterday that would have seen Shadow already dead and Farside would be eliminated as a concern safely, and she rejected it (which is a huge part of why I'm convinced she's malevolent 3rd party; if her claims were true then she should have taken my offer to work to get her to her 20 points to exit but the moment she realized that's what I was proposing, she moved the goal posts and contradicted herself).

So call me paranoid if you like, but don't blame us if we lynch Shadow, Varsoon comes in and declares game over, and Farside is there laughing at all of us for being stupid enough to let her live. She LONG AGO exceeded the bounds that even you or I can reasonably accept from a 3rd party, and you and I are maybe the two most pro-third-party players on the site.

[Reasonably Rational]

And yes.
farside is not groupscum.
This much, it seems we all basically agree on, yes?

Do speak up if I am wrong on that.

So, farside is proven to be some flavor of third party: either third party which is malevolent to the town, third party which is benevolent to the town (if her claim of being town-with-third-party-wincon is to be believed), or third party which is neutral to the town.

I absolutely REFUSE to push for farside's death off of the assumption she'd be malevolent third party.
If she is, so she fucking was. I'll blame Varsoon for it. It's a shitty design for the game.
Same goes for the crystal gems for that matter. They're EXPLICITLY third party: they could be malevolent to the town, they could be benevolent to the town, they could be neutral to the town. If they're malevolent, I'll blame Varsoon for making a fucking shitty hidden second scumteam. Otherwise, I simply don't give a damn.

And that's why all the third party speculation, all the third party propaganda, all the third party paranoia, all the third party worry, which RR has been pushing for basically the whole game (farside, then the crystal gems, then back to farside again), is reason I find them to be a prime scum candidate because it is trying to focus on eliminating a POSSIBLE threat, instead of focusing on eliminating the

known and

proven

threat.

So I don't give a damn about the third parties.
I don't give a damn if I LOSE to the third parties.

My interest is solely in lynching and eliminating the scum. The mafia.
And farside isn't mafia.
So I'm not going to tolerate talks of removing her from the game right now, when it's actually safer to keep her in.

This looks remarkably like me in SaGa Frontier. I didn't give a shit that Cerb and Wguerts were a third party. I just wanted to kill scum. And kill scum I did. Then I lost.

~Drixx

P.S. - And stop criticizing us for going after people who were obviously lying. It's completely stupid to assume "Crystal Gems = good" when the game mod made a Space Dandy game where Space Dandy was the scum team leader. Gems obviously lying was a cause for concern in light of Varsoon's propensity for turning people's asssumptions on their head and making it so that bad flavor assumptions are costly. The moment MoI angrily spat out the only win con I could think of that justified the lie, I *facepalmed* and then moved on and have since worked with them and on the assumption they are on our side and have the extra obligation of keeping us alive while we can win without keeping them alive.

That doesn't at all invalidate the fact that earlier in the gamestate there were real and valid reasons to question. Take off the hindsight goggles please.

[mastin2]

Shadow is scum, and will get the rope. period end of story. Stop trying to save scum.
Alliances please !!!!

^Pretty much!

Rare is the day where TheFuzzylogic is the voice of reason. I mean, it's in the damn name. FUZZY logic. And yet......

[mastin2]

I am so confused at this point...I was sure A50 was scum but I am not so sure anymore

To simplify: you have two kill choices--RR or Almost50. Both are making egregious plays uncharacteristic of their towngames. The main thing to decide is which you think is more likely to be motivated by being scum.

Now, I know Almost50 can get crazy and insane as town.
I know RR shouldn't get crazy/insane as town.

For that reason, I lean towards RR being the scum of the two.
But both are pretty damn bad.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Shadow is scum, and will get the rope. period end of story. Stop trying to save scum.
Alliances please !!!!

^Pretty much!

Rare is the day where TheFuzzylogic is the voice of reason. I mean, it's in the damn name. FUZZY logic. And yet......

I think it is the sign of the apocalypse or something.