Micro 670: Death Miller Mafia 2 GAME OVER
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Lemons
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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@karnos
Is that not the same as saying, "If I turn out to be Death Miller, I give up"?In post 35, karnos wrote:I'll say it right now: if a cop gets a guilty on me, you lynch me, it's just the correct play.
Also, getting a town feeling from rb right now so VOTE: culted because I want them to say something.-
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Lemons Goon
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I get the feeling that rb was using dumb off-topic posts as a way to provoke some kind of reaction. I noticed that as soon as he felt he had a lead with Charloux, his grammar suddenly improved drastically and his arguments started making sense. This seems like a town-motivated way to try to get the ball moving and discussion going.-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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I'm still thinking rb is town, but yeah that logic is not the best. At the same time, Charloux seems very defensive, but I'm not seeing anything overtly scummy.
Karnos' comments on the Death Miller stuff really do seem a bit scummy though. Including himself in the example could be just a cautious townie move, as it makes him seem more committed to his assertion that all cop scum reads should be lynched. Alternatively, if he were scum, that could be a way to buy a bit of credit. It seems suspicious.
For now I'll keep my vote on culted since they still haven't said anything substantial.-
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Lemons
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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VOTE: karnosIn post 92, karnos wrote:
Of course you will. When the time comes I will explain.In post 90, GuiltyLion wrote:If you refuse to answer my question in 87, I will treat it as a literal scumclaim
L-2-
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Lemons Goon
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I'm willing to admit that my vote on karnos may have been a kneejerk reaction to something due to my limited experience. Now that I have more time/less stress, I'm going to reread the thread later and see if my opinions change at all.
I would like to hear about the read on culted as well. Is it only because he disagreed with you about karnos?-
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Lemons
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Lemons
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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I asked you, and I was waiting for an answer. Of course, that doesn't excuse my lurking in general. I have excuses about why I haven't been able to post, but I'd rather put my money where my mouth is and start contributing.
My initial vote on karnos was based mostly on something I saw scum do in my previous game. That being, claim to have some kind of 'plan' all game while refusing to share information. That said, there could be legitimate town reasons for this which I hadn't considered. Looking over karnos vs GL now, I still find karnos looking scummier between the two. GL has given good reasoning and has occasionally tried to contribute to other areas of the conversation. Karnos on the other hand has really only been defending himself and throwing shade toward his accusers, now including myself. It's interesting he would single me out for lurking, and not maker or angel.
Charloux's frustration seems forced to me. I can't understand how someone would get this upset over a day 1 L-2, to the point of self voting. It's also suspicious that he hasn't voted for anyone he finds scummy, as others have pointed out.
Rb still seems town. He's been contributing to conversation in a mostly constructive way, and I really don't see scummy intent there, even if Charloux flipped town.
Everyone else is null for now.
As I still find karnos the most scummy here, my vote will stay on him, though a charloux lynch could be alright.-
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Lemons Goon
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I'd also like to hear your opinions on RK.
Agreed about angel and BTD. Regardless of timezone, Angel is lurking pretty hard right now. All he's done is pop up occasionally and remind everyone how much time we have left in the day.
He's already said why he's supposedly so upset, and it essentially came down to 'rb pushed me and RK made a baseless vote'. To me it sounds like someone trying to play the part of frustrated town to derail a wagon. Voting or not voting doesn't mean a lot now, since he's already been called out for it, as you said. The suspicious part is why he didn't vote before now, when people weren't questioning him on it.In post 244, GuiltyLion wrote:
I don't buy this and neither should you. You can't understand him being upset, why not ask him about it? Why is it suspicious that he hasn't voted, why is that something that scum is more likely to do than town? Especially since other people have been asking him about it and voting him for it already.In post 235, Lemons wrote:Charloux's frustration seems forced to me. I can't understand how someone would get this upset over a day 1 L-2, to the point of self voting. It's also suspicious that he hasn't voted for anyone he finds scummy, as others have pointed out.-
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Lemons Goon
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Who are you referring to?In post 254, rb wrote:You're both town lol-
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Lemons Goon
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GL was really the best kill for scum. If karnos isn't scum, it now puts a lot of shade on him for potentially killing his rival, and scum could push for a lynch. If karnos is scum, he can point out how bad this makes him look, and try to push someone else. Scum could stear the conversation either way.
It's possible the jailkeeper was on karnos since he's been claiming PR, if we have one.-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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Charloux is still looking pretty scummy from day 1, especially since he seemed to get mysteriously quiet as soon as the wagon was off of him and on AA. When he was about to be lynched it seemed like he wanted to leave the town with as much info as possible, posting his read list and such, but as soon as the pressure was off he got quiet. Since AA flipped town, this seems sketchy.
Karnos is still scumlean for reasons I've said, though his concern over the AA lynch seemed somewhat sincere, as I said before, which gives me pause. GL's kill and karnos' vote on me is pretty irrelevant as it could be coming from scum!karnos or town!karnos equally. It is a bit Interesting how his vote came just 2 minutes after the day started though. Seems like not a lot of time to think about the NK.
Your willingness to jump on karnos after the GL kill was a bit sketchy but you're still mostly null for me.
And of course I'd like to see BTD contribute more.-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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Why did you get quiet after posting your reads then? And why stay quiet once you were no longer the target?In post 359, Charloux wrote: If you look a little closer you will notice that i got quiet as soon as i posted my "reads", the wagon just strayed away from me after that.-
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Lemons Goon
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Culted is definitely leaning town for me right now. Not really following karnos' logic there. I can see what he means about 160, but seems like pretty flimsy evidence.
Rb, I can't tell if he's scum trying to take advantage of the situation to lynch lurkers, or if he really is just frustrated with the game. Probably the latter.
Charloux still seems scum, and now he's gone back to lurking it seems. Kind of hard to move forward when the main wagon target doesn't say anything for a week, apart from updating us about feminists.
It is now January 5th, so I'm hoping BTD6 decides to show up.-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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After a read through I'm not liking Culted. For the whole day he's been pushing hard on karnos and seemed certain karnos was scum. Then karnos claims PR, and suddenly Culted is ready to believe him completely and shifts focus to BTD. He even calls out BTD for trying to capitalize on a tvt, even though he was pushing karnos just a little while ago.
I don't want to lynch karnos either but that seems like a hell of a 180 for town to make. If you're scumreading someone, why would you be so willing to take their word on their role? Unless you already know they're town, of course. And now scum has an easy target for a nk unless we have a jk, thanks largely to Culted's pushing.
VOTE: Culted-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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What changed your reads so completely since 382?
And why are BTD's 'unnatural thoughts' scum (415), but karnos' are now town(373)?
Your entire read on BTD seems to be based on his wording (439), which is apparently a bad scum indicator for you since you used that for your read on karnos as well (382), and his supposed capitalizing on what 'now we can safely assume was tvt' (464), which, as you've just said, we do not have the luxury of doing.-
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Lemons
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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Game was slow and I was fishing for any information I could get. That question was not one of my prouder moments.In post 496, culted wrote:
What kind of answer were you expecting here?In post 362, Lemons wrote:
Why did you get quiet after posting your reads then? And why stay quiet once you were no longer the target?In post 359, Charloux wrote: If you look a little closer you will notice that i got quiet as soon as i posted my "reads", the wagon just strayed away from me after that.-
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Lemons Goon
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Honestly Charloux has been nulltown for me since he started getting more active, which is why my vote is no longer there. Going to iso him later to see if that changes. Reason for my suspicion in 484 was purely because of your interaction with him, since I was scumreading you at the time. And now I need to rethink that too, since you've actually given some decent reasons for your read.
So many isos, so little time.
Still feel like BTD is a mislynch though.
And you started the semantics argument.-
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Lemons Goon
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There are two PRs. Neither knows who the other one is.In post 502, Charloux wrote:
A guy claims a PR. If nobody CC's, he is confirmed. If there is a CC we debate. There were no CC's therefore he is confirmed. Anything wrong with this thinking?In post 484, Lemons wrote:Culted, asking again, why do you suddenly completely trust karnos' word on his role after scumreading him all day?
@Culted's last post
Same question to everyone but in regard to Culted and Charloux's push on BTD.-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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This was meant to point out that your logic regarding karnos was flawed, yet you expected us to lynch BTD based upon the same logic and nothing else.In post 612, culted wrote:And as for lemons;
This question still doesn't make any sense.In post 486, Lemons wrote:And why are BTD's 'unnatural thoughts' scum (415), but karnos' are now town(373)?-
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At the time it was all the evidence you'd given.
My suspicion of your read on BTD was primarily due to your heal turn directly after karnos' baseless PR claim, which turned out to be false. I still find this pretty sketchy, and in hindsight it looks like you were looking for a way to stop bussing your partner.-
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Lemons Goon
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We had nothing to go on but his word that he was a PR.In post 623, rb wrote:
Why was karnos' claim baseless?In post 619, Lemons wrote:At the time it was all the evidence you'd given.
My suspicion of your read on BTD was primarily due to your heal turn directly after karnos' baseless PR claim, which turned out to be false. I still find this pretty sketchy, and in hindsight it looks like you were looking for a way to stop bussing your partner.
Can do.
UNVOTE: culted-
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Lemons Goon
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There wasn't any opportunity for a CC at that point. So Culted's 180 in response to the claim struck me as suspicious.In post 633, rb wrote:but how is that different from any other claim?-
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Lemons
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Lemons Goon
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There's no way Dark's play today is scum. He's completely accepted his lynch and is actively trying to help us find the last scum. Even when I gave him an out by supporting another lynch, he dropped the idea instantly when rb told him to, and he's gone back to accepting his lynch.
If this were an act, he'd have to be relying completely on us changing our minds on a sure lynch without any pushing on his part. That's suicide, especially with how rb is leading things. If he were scum he'd be trying to defend himself at least somewhat.
Charloux is hard to read right now. He's been a bit quiet and he's changing his reads a lot. His play in general this game has been mostly town from what I can see. Still, he's less town then Dark is so he'd be my second pick.
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