The reason too scummy to be scum is not an actual thing is because actions are not scummy. Motives are.In post 747, MiniDeathStar wrote:Have you never seen a super scummy villager who just says the wrong things at the wrong time, all the time? I feel like scum would at least make an actual effort not to look so bad.
No. Your inability to discern scum motive does not make it ambiguous.In post 751, MiniDeathStar wrote:Oh, so we just disagree. I 100% believe in the powers of tonal reading. Motivations are often ambiguous.
How can you not have issue with something that isn't okay?In post 735, massive wrote:I'm not saying it's ok nor am I trying to "excuse" my play. I don't have any issue with my play.In post 692, Flubbernugget wrote:So uh a lot of players are anti townIn post 616, massive wrote:You know on second thought that might be a bit overaggressive. In any case, you need to re-assess me Kairal, and you need to let go of this "not explaining your vote is anti-town" stance because you're going to find a LOT of players who won't and who will further demand that you follow them based solely on their reputation. I'm voting who I think is scum. End of story.
Why is this okay and why does it excuse your play
How is my voting without explaining my vote "hurting town"? I feel like you should know that all of this stuff, including the stuff you just listed, is NAI, so why are you pushing them as scummy?In post 749, MiniDeathStar wrote:Anti-town doesn't always mean scum. Anti-town are just things that hurt town instead of helping (like lurking, claiming without reason and so on). I feel like you should already know this, so why are you pretending you don't know the difference?In post 748, massive wrote:Prove it. Show me any game ever where every unexplained vote was by scum and every explained vote was by town.
I think there's a far cry from what I said in my quoted piece (let's say, for example, like RadiantCowbells) and what I am doing here. Trying to equate the two gets you zero reading comprehension points.In post 753, Flubbernugget wrote:How can you not have issue with something that isn't okay?In post 735, massive wrote:I'm not saying it's ok nor am I trying to "excuse" my play. I don't have any issue with my play.In post 692, Flubbernugget wrote:So uh a lot of players are anti townIn post 616, massive wrote:You know on second thought that might be a bit overaggressive. In any case, you need to re-assess me Kairal, and you need to let go of this "not explaining your vote is anti-town" stance because you're going to find a LOT of players who won't and who will further demand that you follow them based solely on their reputation. I'm voting who I think is scum. End of story.
Why is this okay and why does it excuse your play
I'm pushing them as anti-town, not as scummy? I think I said that twice already.In post 754, massive wrote:How is my voting without explaining my vote "hurting town"? I feel like you should know that all of this stuff, including the stuff you just listed, is NAI, so why are you pushing them as scummy?
5 HellloooNewman (culted, AJ, IAI, Grey, Shadow)In post 757, massive wrote:I mean, I'm pretty sure you're voting me currently, man a vote count would sure be nice.
Right. But I see what you were getting at!
Even if you can't appreciate the distinction between you guys in that regard, newman looks to be laying down here.In post 650, massive wrote:The main argument about Newman stems from his re-entry and return to the topic of Cloudkicker being force-replaced. Since I agree with the read on this, it's hard for me to look at Newman's re-entry as non-genuine. Since Grey's entire case on me was that I was "caught" following his "bad logic," and I believe that bad logic, I have to believe Newman believes that bad logic.
And I'm unconvinced by Grey's case.
For example.
Fair point but I don't recall you having flub as town prior to this post?In post 656, Dierfire wrote:Speaking of Secret Agent Jin, I'm noting a concern here that he sometimes appears to be subtly encouraging conflicts between players whom I read as Town. In 508 there is no vote and no explanation of why Flubbernugget is incorrect, but rather he seems content to let MiniDeathStar do the lifting.
Just looked thru ur ISO and yeah no unvote.In post 766, Io wrote:@IAI I unvoted some time ago.
Debating whether or not to push Flubber a bit, but it's really not going to do anything, not like I can do much to convince you guys that Newman is pretty clear town.
VOTE: Massive
Ha ha, you never know! I figured that I'd ask anyway, and see how I am rewarded:In post 744, MiniDeathStar wrote:Massive sharing reasons for his vote? Which dimension did you come from, I want there like asap.In post 742, Dierfire wrote:I can think of reasons to vote for Secret Agent Jin, but perhaps you have others to share?
I've thought some more about this vote and a few other things, and I don't find any fault. This sort of parallels some of my thinking about Secret Agent Jin. It's also unlikely to me that massive and HelloooNewman are both Mafia (because both pushed the idea that you and CloudKicker--now Shadow_step--are partners, and that's a weird thing to commit two Mafia players to), and so I've no reason to think that massive is trying to divert a wagon from HellloooNewman with that vote.In post 748, massive wrote:"Scum are causing confusion" (701) but then doesn't actually react to the confusion he believes has been caused as he wants to lynch one of the major wagons today and another tomorrow (712) (unless he thinks Io, Newman, and I are creating the confusion, which seems unlikely)
Ah, yes, thanks!In post 763, culted wrote:Fair point but I don't recall you having flub as town prior to this post?In post 656, Dierfire wrote:Speaking of Secret Agent Jin, I'm noting a concern here that he sometimes appears to be subtly encouraging conflicts between players whom I read as Town. In 508 there is no vote and no explanation of why Flubbernugget is incorrect, but rather he seems content to let MiniDeathStar do the lifting.
So I did look into this and I've satisfied my misgivings. I was thinking back to previous experience in Mini Normal 1669, in which Flubbernugget was Town and tended to post very short snippets without much depth of analysis and certainly never referring to a read over multiple posts as he did in 135 in this game (it felt more like waiting passively for things to wander by rather than actively seeking to understand other players). However, that was a long time ago and in more recent Town games that I reviewed (Micro 665, Open 658) he was more thorough.In post 275, Dierfire wrote:Flubbernugget is showing evidence of paying attention to details (75 looking at the VC, 135 paying attention to the reads that massive gives). Ordinarily I consider these things to indicate Town alignment and effort to solve the game; in this case I have a vague feeling that they don't conform to my previous experience with Flubbernugget as Town, so I will check that at some point to be certain.
In post 516, TierShift wrote:I don't remember flub ever being so level-headed.
That's persuasive to me; the slight change in style is a natural progression and therefore not a result of a change in alignment. To be sure I also checked a game in which Flubbernugget was Mafia (Micro 652) and found a similar style there.In post 517, Flubbernugget wrote:That's because I don't work retail anymore
Io says she doesn't disagree with me a lot, even though IIn post 601, Io wrote:Honestly though I'm more confident that AJ and Culted are a scum team than you Mini. That's mostly because you're play style right now is basically mimicking how you played in 658, andit's not like I really disagree with you a ton. Though you and Culted do look pretty buddyey right now.
