STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[grapes]

Hi shiro

[MagnaofIllusion]

Am I the only one here that wants ftl dead?

Yes.

It's not happening.

Your reads on Grapes and RR should come in your next post.

[Reasonably Rational]

@MOI: A50's ability said any abilities could not fail. It did not specify whether that excluded factional abilities, and based on the verbiage used by the role PM's we've seen, I assume that means factional abilities were also empowered.

That's a pretty bad assumption that makes me wonder why you would just blindly assume such as opposed to asking like I did.

Because I don't have any factional abilities, and fuzzy had already demonstrated a claimed vig earlier in the game, and there was only one scum kill, so it's actually IRRELEVANT, because 1) If fuzzy's scum, and didn't have an additional shot to use, then we KNOW it was empowered because it worked on farside last night, and 2) If fuzzy's scum, and DID have an additional shot to use(and when I say additional shot, I mean a personal shot, rather than a factional one), then he used the one that A50's power would work on.

I'm confused by why you believe it actually matters? There was only one kill last night, when Fuzzy claimed he would vig, and the death was on the target he told A50 and myself that he would be targeting(which, btw, he didn't tell us until AFTER the deadline for action submission had passed iirc(I'll double check this)).

That means one of three things happened.

1) Fuzzy is scum, and could not use both his vig shot and his factional kill
2) Scum CHOSE to skip the kill.
3) The scum kill failed.

If nobody expresses a reason for the scum kill to have failed, then 2 is most likely. If 2 occurred, it's MEANINGLESS, because A50 had already claimed, in thread, that he was going to be tracking last night. ANYONE in this game is smart enough to realize that as long as fuzzy didn't shoot them(which they obviously couldn't control unless they had an empowered roleblock or something), holding their shot would mean the kill he made would cause the game to go to a 4 man or 6 man mylo, as opposed to a 3 man or 5 man lylo...that is, in short that their kill that night would be a risk in exchange for sculpting the lylo playing field.

I'll ask Varsoon, to make sure(because you're right, I should have asked since I have access to a PT showing me what that effect was, so he can tell me in private whether or not it would affect a factional ability), but your chasing your tail about something that I'm pretty sure is irrelevant.

-Cerb

pedit: Yo shiro. Welcome back.

[grapes]

Almost's ability lends more credence to scum not killing and also trying to brew up paranoia on fuzzy if he's town. That's pretty clear.

[grapes]

its almost like telling someone they should quit mafia will stop them from wanting to engage with you. Funny that.

I mean are you really gonna act like you've tried to engage me at all the last 3 months.

You want me to lie and say I think you're a great mafia player?

Prove me fucking wrong.

Realize that RR's far scummier by play than me and that your circle jerk will continue once the game's over.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOI: A50's ability said any abilities could not fail. It did not specify whether that excluded factional abilities, and based on the verbiage used by the role PM's we've seen, I assume that means factional abilities were also empowered.

That's a pretty bad assumption that makes me wonder why you would just blindly assume such as opposed to asking like I did.

Because I don't have any factional abilities, and fuzzy had already demonstrated a claimed vig earlier in the game, and there was only one scum kill, so it's actually IRRELEVANT, because 1) If fuzzy's scum, and didn't have an additional shot to use, then we KNOW it was empowered because it worked on farside last night, and 2) If fuzzy's scum, and DID have an additional shot to use(and when I say additional shot, I mean a personal shot, rather than a factional one), then he used the one that A50's power would work on.

I'm confused by why you believe it actually matters? There was only one kill last night, when Fuzzy claimed he would vig, and the death was on the target he told A50 and myself that he would be targeting(which, btw, he didn't tell us until AFTER the deadline for action submission had passed iirc(I'll double check this)).

That means one of three things happened.

1) Fuzzy is scum, and could not use both his vig shot and his factional kill
2) Scum CHOSE to skip the kill.
3) The scum kill failed.

If nobody expresses a reason for the scum kill to have failed, then 2 is most likely. If 2 occurred, it's MEANINGLESS, because A50 had already claimed, in thread, that he was going to be tracking last night. ANYONE in this game is smart enough to realize that as long as fuzzy didn't shoot them(which they obviously couldn't control unless they had an empowered roleblock or something), holding their shot would mean the kill he made would cause the game to go to a 4 man or 6 man mylo, as opposed to a 3 man or 5 man lylo...that is, in short that their kill that night would be a risk in exchange for sculpting the lylo playing field.

I'll ask Varsoon, to make sure(because you're right, I should have asked since I have access to a PT showing me what that effect was, so he can tell me in private whether or not it would affect a factional ability), but your chasing your tail about something that I'm pretty sure is irrelevant.

-Cerb

For part of the supposedly super-savvy Hydra on mechanics the fact that you think it doesn’t matter is damn odd given that you endorse the “2 scum left” hypothesis. Especially since you are ignoring the possibility that two scum means there is by default a Leftover who could have joined the Mafia.

Which means that a fourth possibility exists which explains the lack of two kills last Night –

1. The Leftover cannot make the Mafia scum faction kill and Shiro was bubbled.

Especially since you voting Grapes who basically claimed the only possible Leftover role.

[grapes]

How about this. Going back to the creature lynch.

Was that an all town lynch on town? Probably not when you consider that scum NEEEEEEDED that mislynch.

And how bad RR's push on them was EoD. Blatantly ignored me when I told them that creature getting blocked didn't point to him being scum for lack of kill.

[grapes]

And if cerb "concluded a50 was town day 4" LOL. (Hi lack of paranoia) Why hasn't he been shoving a case and WHY WAIT UNTIL AFTER I VOTE THEM TO MOVE ALL IN.

Doesn't come from town.

[Reasonably Rational]

And if cerb "concluded a50 was town day 4" LOL. (Hi lack of paranoia) Why hasn't he been shoving a case and WHY WAIT UNTIL AFTER I VOTE THEM TO MOVE ALL IN.

Doesn't come from town.

We defended A50 a long time ago the first time someone pushed him. It's in our ISO.

~Drixx

[Reasonably Rational]

@MOI: A50's ability said any abilities could not fail. It did not specify whether that excluded factional abilities, and based on the verbiage used by the role PM's we've seen, I assume that means factional abilities were also empowered.

That's a pretty bad assumption that makes me wonder why you would just blindly assume such as opposed to asking like I did.

Because I don't have any factional abilities, and fuzzy had already demonstrated a claimed vig earlier in the game, and there was only one scum kill, so it's actually IRRELEVANT, because 1) If fuzzy's scum, and didn't have an additional shot to use, then we KNOW it was empowered because it worked on farside last night, and 2) If fuzzy's scum, and DID have an additional shot to use(and when I say additional shot, I mean a personal shot, rather than a factional one), then he used the one that A50's power would work on.

I'm confused by why you believe it actually matters? There was only one kill last night, when Fuzzy claimed he would vig, and the death was on the target he told A50 and myself that he would be targeting(which, btw, he didn't tell us until AFTER the deadline for action submission had passed iirc(I'll double check this)).

That means one of three things happened.

1) Fuzzy is scum, and could not use both his vig shot and his factional kill
2) Scum CHOSE to skip the kill.
3) The scum kill failed.

If nobody expresses a reason for the scum kill to have failed, then 2 is most likely. If 2 occurred, it's MEANINGLESS, because A50 had already claimed, in thread, that he was going to be tracking last night. ANYONE in this game is smart enough to realize that as long as fuzzy didn't shoot them(which they obviously couldn't control unless they had an empowered roleblock or something), holding their shot would mean the kill he made would cause the game to go to a 4 man or 6 man mylo, as opposed to a 3 man or 5 man lylo...that is, in short that their kill that night would be a risk in exchange for sculpting the lylo playing field.

I'll ask Varsoon, to make sure(because you're right, I should have asked since I have access to a PT showing me what that effect was, so he can tell me in private whether or not it would affect a factional ability), but your chasing your tail about something that I'm pretty sure is irrelevant.

-Cerb

For part of the supposedly super-savvy Hydra on mechanics the fact that you think it doesn’t matter is damn odd given that you endorse the “2 scum left” hypothesis. Especially since you are ignoring the possibility that two scum means there is by default a Leftover who could have joined the Mafia.

Which means that a fourth possibility exists which explains the lack of two kills last Night –

1. The Leftover cannot make the Mafia scum faction kill and Shiro was bubbled.

Especially since you voting Grapes who basically claimed the only possible Leftover role.

Can we just not with the passive-aggressive shit like the first clause of your post? That would be cool.

As for your theory that the leftover cannot make the faction kill ... what makes you posit that?

~Drixx

[Randomnamechange]

I honestly think that could cause issues with the last scum being the leftover
i think it would be more likely that the leftover cant win without at least one scum alive (reverse of our win con)

[Reasonably Rational]

@MOI: A50's ability said any abilities could not fail. It did not specify whether that excluded factional abilities, and based on the verbiage used by the role PM's we've seen, I assume that means factional abilities were also empowered.

That's a pretty bad assumption that makes me wonder why you would just blindly assume such as opposed to asking like I did.

Because I don't have any factional abilities, and fuzzy had already demonstrated a claimed vig earlier in the game, and there was only one scum kill, so it's actually IRRELEVANT, because 1) If fuzzy's scum, and didn't have an additional shot to use, then we KNOW it was empowered because it worked on farside last night, and 2) If fuzzy's scum, and DID have an additional shot to use(and when I say additional shot, I mean a personal shot, rather than a factional one), then he used the one that A50's power would work on.

I'm confused by why you believe it actually matters? There was only one kill last night, when Fuzzy claimed he would vig, and the death was on the target he told A50 and myself that he would be targeting(which, btw, he didn't tell us until AFTER the deadline for action submission had passed iirc(I'll double check this)).

That means one of three things happened.

1) Fuzzy is scum, and could not use both his vig shot and his factional kill
2) Scum CHOSE to skip the kill.
3) The scum kill failed.

If nobody expresses a reason for the scum kill to have failed, then 2 is most likely. If 2 occurred, it's MEANINGLESS, because A50 had already claimed, in thread, that he was going to be tracking last night. ANYONE in this game is smart enough to realize that as long as fuzzy didn't shoot them(which they obviously couldn't control unless they had an empowered roleblock or something), holding their shot would mean the kill he made would cause the game to go to a 4 man or 6 man mylo, as opposed to a 3 man or 5 man lylo...that is, in short that their kill that night would be a risk in exchange for sculpting the lylo playing field.

I'll ask Varsoon, to make sure(because you're right, I should have asked since I have access to a PT showing me what that effect was, so he can tell me in private whether or not it would affect a factional ability), but your chasing your tail about something that I'm pretty sure is irrelevant.

-Cerb

For part of the supposedly super-savvy Hydra on mechanics the fact that you think it doesn’t matter is damn odd given that you endorse the “2 scum left” hypothesis. Especially since you are ignoring the possibility that two scum means there is by default a Leftover who could have joined the Mafia.

Which means that a fourth possibility exists which explains the lack of two kills last Night –

1. The Leftover cannot make the Mafia scum faction kill and Shiro was bubbled.

Especially since you voting Grapes who basically claimed the only possible Leftover role.

Hmm. That's actually an interesting possibility that I hadn't considered at all. I suppose it's possible? I mean, from my POV shiro being bubbled accomplished nothing, he was essentially conftown to me already, by virtue of the failed shot on you, so I don't find any argument regarding any other reason for the missing kill, besides choice or fuzzy is somehow scum(which he isn't), to be especially compelling.

=Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

And if cerb "concluded a50 was town day 4" LOL. (Hi lack of paranoia) Why hasn't he been shoving a case and WHY WAIT UNTIL AFTER I VOTE THEM TO MOVE ALL IN.

Doesn't come from town.

Do you even know WHY we concluded he was town on Day 4? We've expressed it repeatedly, surely you're aware of our argument?

-Cerb

[grapes]

So a50 has been lock-town to RR for ...... .. . .. .. . ever?

So they don't push me at all? But then omgus me????

So I'm unsure what their game plan is at this point. But it was evidently to do nothing until pushed and hope that we buy into hail mary 7 scum paranoia?

Then flail and buy into more leftover third party paranoia.

I guess.

pedit: Not really. Which is red flag consider all the talks (and your hush) about a50 and shiro vigs that happened on the last couple of days.

[Reasonably Rational]

So a50 has been lock-town to RR for ...... .. . .. .. . ever?

So they don't push me at all? But then omgus me????

So I'm unsure what their game plan is at this point. But it was evidently to do nothing until pushed and hope that we buy into hail mary 7 scum paranoia?

Then flail and buy into more leftover third party paranoia.

I guess.

pedit: Not really. Which is red flag consider all the talks (and your hush) about a50 and shiro vigs that happened on the last couple of days.

...

It's a red flag regarding US that YOU don't care enough about the positions of people you're positing as scum, and the legitimacy of the case you're making on them, to actually be aware of what positions they've held?

...

There's been no reason to prioritize pushing you, and it was only yesterday, when MOI essentially confirmed that you had claimed Lapis, that a number of possibilities opened up. There were a LOT of slots that were FAR more likely to be scum than you, and we pushed and lynched those slots.

That's how PoE works.

-Cerb

[grapes]

When people are yelling to vig someone who you think is confirmed town. It's a scumclaim to not make the thread aware of it.

[grapes]

Why's a50 confirmed town, though?

[grapes]

I'm curious on this one, game's a lot harder when all I know is my own alignment please understand.

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh that.

Lol.

From the moment Fuzzy decided he was going to vig A50, and A50 decided Fuzzy was scum, we were working to convince them each that the other was town, because we were sure they were(though less sure on fuzzy than on A50). When it comes to a vig shot, there's no reason to argue with the rest of the town when you're being dumb and wrong and ignoring the points we had already made when you can just convince the person making the actual shot.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

One sec, I'll actually just go grab the post drixx made from the PT we had with 50 and Fuzzy(the text of it), and that'll reiterate the reasoning there.

-Cerb

[grapes]

Creature - Ummm... really obvious.
TFL - This should also be obvious I think.
Shiro - Obviously skimming the game. Given that he missed us citing things Titus said and asking for him to confirm (and then bizarrely asked us to confirm something that isn't there), he's not really plugged in. That feels like demoralized scum (and could explain the MoI shot if Shiro is scum: if he missed the post outlining MoI's abilities or just skimmed it and missed the protection). It's also possible that it could just be lazy town assuming a win given our strong position.
Grapes - I am tempted to put Grapes before Shiro. There's no real reason to read him either way, except for the Historical Fiction event which indicated he was targeted night one; however, there are two glaring failure points with that being used as a clear. Firstly, the event was from TWIE and TWIE chose which submitted actions to turn into truth, so it's possible that TWIE simply lied so it would look like Grapes was targeted by the scum team as an attempt to get him "cleared". The second failure point is that DGB had the ability to re-direct the scum kill. Then there's the fact that Grapes is literally coasting along at this point on this "clear" and my "gut" is bothering me a bit. (As a note, I'm not a "gut" person as I believe "gut" is just your brain telling you something is wrong but ... you get the point).
S_S - I have a really hard time believing that the scum team were given a goon in this game. That seems absurd. Almost certainly he got stuck with the token vanilla townie slot in a role madness game. To be fair, though, that's literally the only reason to posit him as town.

HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH

[grapes]

Found some buried treasure.

[grapes]

Also, no gamesolving.

[grapes]

Brb getting coffee I'll talk about more of their scumposts.

[grapes]

Also what were you just saying about shiro being confirmed town?