STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[grapes]

just checked
Ok I have zero shots........so I was wrong.

Well isn't that lovely.

[Shiro]

Shiro...why doesn't fuzzy just shoot A50 or myself, the people he was SUPPOSED to shoot, and avoid the extra suspicion of going after Farside in particular?

Because this was his only chance to kill her, with his strongarm kill.

She is immune to normal kills, it was this or managing to lynch her.

He needs only humans dead to win so MoI isnt an issue. You as very well proven is lynchbale so is grapes right after your stupid lynch and he only needs to kill me tonight. Jesus fuckign christ.

[Shiro]

just checked
Ok I have zero shots........so I was wrong.

Well isn't that lovely.

Convinient isnt it ?

You know because he cannot both use his kill and the faction kill.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Shiro
For crying out loud......it was not my idea to shoot Far. RR put us three together...... I think RR knew Almost ability. Its possible if she was scum to ally me and Almost together to get rid of Far. RR has been orchestrating a lot of things in this game. This does not mean sh is scum but we need to consider it. If you are town you need to get in the game man....I know you were out for a bit but if you are town than we need you man


Grapes
could be scum given the fact if Almost is correct than it explains a lot. Grapes also is modding which takes up a lot of time.Its possible she just got to busy and forgot to make an action......

Right now Grapes and RR are the best bets to lynch scum

[Reasonably Rational]

Sucking someone's dick is a figure of speak among adults that means to kiss their ass.

Where I come from, when it's used with a negative connotation it's considered an anti LBGT slur. I believe that's how it's viewed on site when used with a negative connotation also. You can adjust or not adjust how you post as you see fit. I'm not the morality police and I don't report people for crap. I just say something and hope people can find it within themselves to restrain themselves and keep the rhetoric related to play and not people. I think if we were all just talking in an MD thread, most (if not all) of us would say we'd rather just be friendly with everyone we play with.

---

@Grapes: Are you by chance a 3rd party survivor? Up until Farside's flip, that's what we assumed you to be.

~Drixx

P-edit: Shiro makes valid points. We assumed that Fuzzy ignoring questions about his shot meant that he would have an extra shot and didn't want it to be super obvious, which is why we allied him today.

@Shiro - Isn't that PT you made permanent with Titus and us supposed to be ... permanent? Can you ask about that? I have some questions for you.


P-edit2: Calm down Fuzzy. You're not going to get turbo lynched for what might be an honest mistake. Can you explain why you ignored all the requests yesterday and the day before to ask about your recharge and when it happened? Also, our plan that I spent two days pushing was to lynch Farside and have you shoot Shadow. The goal was to try and confirm you and getting you with A50 was a way to make sure your shot couldn't fail. You ended up shooting Farside because nobody would go with our plan and (I think?) because you realized we are probably right that A50 makes no sense as scum.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Shiro

read yesterday posts.....I strictly saying I was not shooting Far. I said it a hundred time......than after I went in the alliance with RR and almost I changed my mind, RR admitted she asked me to shoot Far.
If you convince I am scum than vote for me or back off
As I said I am pretty sure you are town..The only way you are scum is if there are two scum and not one which I doubt. Pleas I am begging you man......wake up lets work together to catch scum

As far as the vig thing its just me derping,,,,,,,,but if read the game I have been derping all game

[grapes]

at that time barely anyone had claimed. only mastin and titus did i think. i had no clue about anyone else
i can only use this during season finales

This is a lie, mod had confirmed I was a VT on season finale.

not exactly true..... the mod confirmed you as being vanilla not as vanilla town . There still a chance you might be scum.... maybe a vanilla goon.

Hm.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

like how RR is both trying to buddy me and throw me under the bus at the same time........Atleast I was honest about my suspicion of RR.
this is scummy

RR...
Bull...I wanted to shoot Shadow the night before before he was lynched. You said not to bc you had a plan. You wanted to shoot Far and so trying to help town I did.......

I did not advoid question...I thought I had a shot left. Shiro pressured me about it and rightfully so. I asked and got an answer from Vasoon

I am 99.9 percent sure either you are Grapes are scum

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Shiro
if you think I am scum than fine I can kinda see your rationale for this..but I am town. If think I am scum than vote for me. I am telling you that RR/Grapes is scum

[grapes]

Really don't like how fuzzy has sorta molded RR and I into one person.

[Reasonably Rational]

Really don't like how fuzzy has sorta molded RR and I into one person.

Can you answer my earlier question?

[grapes]

Where I come from, when it's used with a negative connotation it's considered an anti LBGT slur. I believe that's how it's viewed on site when used with a negative connotation also. You can adjust or not adjust how you post as you see fit. I'm not the morality police and I don't report people for crap. I just say something and hope people can find it within themselves to restrain themselves and keep the rhetoric related to play and not people. I think if we were all just talking in an MD thread, most (if not all) of us would say we'd rather just be friendly with everyone we play with.

Yea I've been known to not have a filter. Especially so when I'm getting runup for no good reason.

I try and tone it down and then nobody listens to me. I get emotional and just type what I'm feeling and people read into what I'm saying the wrong way and I burn bridges.

Don't think I'm cut out for this game.

pedit: I'm town drixx. Been town all game.

[Reasonably Rational]

Where I come from, when it's used with a negative connotation it's considered an anti LBGT slur. I believe that's how it's viewed on site when used with a negative connotation also. You can adjust or not adjust how you post as you see fit. I'm not the morality police and I don't report people for crap. I just say something and hope people can find it within themselves to restrain themselves and keep the rhetoric related to play and not people. I think if we were all just talking in an MD thread, most (if not all) of us would say we'd rather just be friendly with everyone we play with.

Yea I've been known to not have a filter. Especially so when I'm getting runup for no good reason.

I try and tone it down and then nobody listens to me. I get emotional and just type what I'm feeling and people read into what I'm saying the wrong way and I burn bridges.

Don't think I'm cut out for this game.

pedit: I'm town drixx. Been town all game.

I'm tired because it's 5 a.m. and I haven't slept yet. I'll go look at what A50 told us months ago, but my memory says he told us that Xykfu started as a leftover 3rd party survivor with the option to join the Crystal Gems. Since you've been outed as a leftover and which gem you are is also outed, we assumed you also started as and remained a 3P survivor until Farside flipped town. It's possible I'm mistaken and A50 didn't say survivor, but I'm nearly 100% certain he said leftover 3rd party.

I was kind of hoping you would say yes because that could have potentially put us back in a position where we can ensure we remove all suspects and ensure a win.

~Drixx

P.S. - On a personal note: it's nearly impossible to burn bridges with me (and most reasonable people on the internet). Those who permanently begrudge you for something you say in the heat of the moment are probably not the people you want to play with anyway. Despite a couple of spats, I've enjoyed playing with you and I'd say you are more than cut out for this game.

[grapes]

Where exactly did the idea that I'm a leftover come from?

[grapes]

I mean I haven't looked at my role PM in awhile but I bet it still says Lapis Lazuli aligned with Earth.

[grapes]

VOTE: Fuzzy

[Shiro]

@Shiro - Isn't that PT you made permanent with Titus and us supposed to be ... permanent? Can you ask about that? I have some questions for you.

It closed when I got bubbled because technically I was removed from the game.

@Fuzzy

Yes, yes I will

Vote:Fuzzy

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I got confirmation from Varsoon that the Mafia factional kill would qualify as an ability for Almost’s Alliance boosting ability during Season Finales. This makes me take Almost off the table as a lynch given that as scum he would certainly want to put a member of his scum team into Season Finale alliances to make their Nightkill unblockable. And he can’t be a partner with either Fuzzy or RR to my mind.

So seeing that information that leaves the lack of Nightkill yesterday to among the following –

1. Fuzzy is scum and can’t both Vig and Mafia kill the same Night.
2. the Mafia no-killed to frame Fuzzy.
3. the Mafia tried to take a shot at myself / Random despite the public announcement of our commute
4. the Mafia also killed farside.
5. Grapes is a Leftover who joined the Mafia and can’t make the faction kill and Shiro was bubbled overnight.

There is no real way that I can see to parse which of these is correct.

I do think that I’m unlikely to think 1 is the case regardless. It has been established that Fuzzy has an additional Kill with the uncontested Fire kill. His choice of kill last Night if he was scum was completely suboptimal for having a chance to win the game from a Dayplay standpoint. He chose to go against Mastin and myself’s wishes when he had to know that not killing either RR or Almost could very well result in a lynch on him today. And clearly even if he has a partner they can’t make the kill themselves (which leaves only Grapes / Shiro as possibilities in my mind). So him choosing to side with RR / Almost in killing Farside does make sense from a general scum standpoint but doesn’t make sense from a survivalist standpoint.

So add Almost and Fuzzy to my “Not Lynching Today” pool. What leaves grapes / RR / Shiro.

--

So, if A50 is scum, NOT ONLY did the scum team attempt to ally with Xkfyu TWICE after learning his ENTIRE ROLE, AND THAT ALLYING WITH HIM PUT THEM AT RISK, but they PUT THE SLOT THAT HAD LESS SUSPICION AND A STRONGER ROLE AT RISK.

I get that you are pushing this so hard because you want the logic to extend to yourself also but the big hole in this theory is that Skybird having less suspicion means that the odds of XK trying to kill him as opposed to Shadow are much lower, right? I had to convince Xk to fire that ability on Skybird in the Gems PT. It certainly wasn’t a certainty which makes it not outside the realm of possibility that Skybird thought they could save their partner by substituting themselves with Shadow’s slot in the alliance even if they did know of the power.

Likewise there are reasons outside “Preventing Xk from maybe using an ability on non-so-suspected Skybird” that scum would decide to kill Yume when they did and your constant “why would scum do that” looks like you are handwaving those possibilities.

I also don’t like that you keep harping on the “I can make sure that my hammer vote prevents escape of scum” ability as confirming you as Town now that we have confirmation that farside was Town.

I'm not the setup/mod genius you are, but I know enough to know that the amount of slots who could never be mislynched in this game is too high for there to be only one scum left and that's the only threat.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the entire Crystal Gems faction could be endgamed even if were 5 players strong simply by scum killing all the Town players in this analysis. Why?

Also, our plan that I spent two days pushing was to lynch Farside and have you shoot Shadow

Also you understand that this sort of statement makes me want to insta-vote you, correct? Because that is the definition of a scum-beneficial plan and no amount of “I’m justified in my paranoia” makes that fact go away.

--

Yeah that's not what you said so stop fucking pretending it was.

You multiple times warned of a THIRD PARTY ENDGAME happening. You MULTIPLE TIMES told us, "farside's role will allow her to endgame everyone alive by allowing her to reach the points needed". This was the appeal to fear you were using.

Not once. Not ONCE. Did you use "in mylo she'll achieve her win and scum will endgame". Which is still an appeal to fear by the way. Just not the one you were employing. Inconsistency, and still doesn't change the original problem even if not

Actually I want to see RR’s response to this.

This is, one, a literal fucking scumclaim because trust telling is by definition something which would mean grapes is town,

Um … not quite if the player was willing to bust the Trust Tell for a game they’ve made a massive investment in.

But it is worth noting that what Grapes said was no-where near a Trust tell.

[Shiro]

I do think that I’m unlikely to think 1 is the case regardless. It has been established that Fuzzy has an additional Kill with the uncontested Fire kill. His choice of kill last Night if he was scum was completely suboptimal for having a chance to win the game from a Dayplay standpoint. He chose to go against Mastin and myself’s wishes when he had to know that not killing either RR or Almost could very well result in a lynch on him today. And clearly even if he has a partner they can’t make the kill themselves (which leaves only Grapes / Shiro as possibilities in my mind). So him choosing to side with RR / Almost in killing Farside does make sense from a general scum standpoint but doesn’t make sense from a survivalist standpoint.

He had no choice, farside was not mislynchable and I was bubbled. He had to kill farside because every other option was mislynchable. RR,Grapes,Almost.
None of them had mastin shouting that nobody should dare lynch them from the start of the game. You think he had any chance of ever lynching her over himself? Had he killed RR or grapes (Both lynch targets because of you and mastins shouting) He would be left closer in a pool of him getting death.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

I feel like voting for myself right now bc town is bound and determine to self implode........ but

NO

If I have to I will drag the town toward a town victory kicking and screaming if necessary

Shiro
Actually Mastin would be a better kill since she is conftown.......No way I would of not taken out MOI or Random if I had the chance if I was scum .......

Scum play makes no sense at all....... why not kill conf town the other night when they had a chance......either they did not make a kill or was RB

[Reasonably Rational]

Asked and answered MoI. Cerb and I all but had an argument about it in the thread. I have a long noted history of soft spot for 3p (Which Mastin knows, and I think is mostly basing her entire premise upon). He was the 3P who stole the game in SaGa. So we tested her by offering her the claimed 20 point win con so she could GTFO as quickly as possible and there would be no chance she would get to her points on M/LYLO day and end the game by taking her win. Not only did she turn it down, she backpedaled and started flailing. I know all of you saw this because nobody was in thread calling Farside town as I was pointing out that her actions didn't line up with her claim and that she was therefore lying and pushed for her lynch.

Set that aside anyway, because isn't Mastin's narrative that we masterminded the farside kill via Fuzzy in advance? Why the hell would I have spent days trying to get you guys to realize she was a threat (legitimate belief; feel free to check our hydra PT for extensive discussion on reasons why after the game if you choose not to believe me) and eroding credibility on our slot? The narrative being pushed just doesn't make sense. It has us playing against ourselves at every turn.

As far as the issue with Xykfu and Skybird; it may be true that you had to argue Xykfu into triggering the event (although I have a note that says you guys thought it would be refunded and could be used more than once, so you might be overplaying the hesitance to use angle just a tad?), but that still doesn't explain why a scum team informed of that ability, including the stress requirement, would have chosen to kill Yume and raise stress and even put Skybird in danger in the first place. Go back and re-read when Yume was killed. You will see people literally mocking the scum team for doing it and saying they had helped town (which was unbelievably ugly and hurtful towards Yume, which I believe I said something about at the time).

The more likely scenario is that scum simply didn't know and had the ability to take out Yume, who was by then outed completely as Steven.

And yes, the argument could extend to our slot as well, but at a much weaker strength than A50. A50 knew the Xykfu information so far in advance that one cannot even argue that the kill on Yume was submitted during the night and just delayed until we saw it happen. One could posit us as scum if they conclude we were only informed of the Xykfu info after it was too late to stop the event which killed Yume. That's not the case, but just pointing out a fairly plausible scenario where we can defend A50 and explain why we have had him clear since day 3 without that being some kind of forced implication that we're also clear for the same reason.

We're clear (or at least should be) because of the totality of our play throughout the whole game. The only reason anyone is even positing us as possibly scum is because it's late in the game and there's only a few slots left who aren't confirmed Crystal Gems or town, and Mastin is wallposting arguing that we're scum. There's a LOT of flaws in her posts though. Like absurd logic holes you could sail an oil tanker through level flaws. Rather than shit on the thread arguing with all that, I thought it was better to point out why someone not confirmed(A50) is almost certainly not scum and then focus on who was left and that's how we ended up on Grapes. Process of elimination.

~Drixx

P.S. - As for the trust tell thing, I've recently had a game I modded ruined over almost exactly the same type of claim/phrasing. I don't want to shit on the thread about it any further, so I've left a note in our hydra PT and we can discuss further after the game if that's your thing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Convinient isnt it ?

You know because he cannot both use his kill and the faction kill.

1. How do you know that?
2. Are you arguing he never had a Vig Kill?

He had no choice, farside was not mislynchable and I was bubbled. He had to kill farside because every other option was mislynchable. RR,Grapes,Almost.
None of them had mastin shouting that nobody should dare lynch them from the start of the game. You think he had any chance of ever lynching her over himself? Had he killed RR or grapes (Both lynch targets because of you and mastins shouting) He would be left closer in a pool of him getting death.

Why would you say farside was not mislynchable? Certainly the minute mastin or I left the thread half the strong defenders of farside are gone. Clearly both A50 and RR were into lynching her. And random had expressed suspicion of farside in PT posts.

--

Where exactly did the idea that I'm a leftover come from?

Well perhaps here …

You are aligned with The Leftovers (Third Party). You are a Gem.

Xk specifically started the game as a 3rd party role. He chose to join the Crystal Gems after Day 2.

So unless you want to make the argument that there is a faction called The Leftovers that explicitly started the game with only 1 member then it stands to reason there is a second Leftover out there. One that would probably lean towards the Mafia given XK leaned towards the Crystal Gems.

And Lapis is the flavor that fits that to a tee.

And don’t bother with “I hate your flavor spec” type response. I don’t really care if you don’t like it.

--

Asked and answered MoI.

Link it then please. Because I agree with mastin that you have spent significant time arguing for a SaGa Frontier style 3rd Party takes all win over Town before Farside got shot. Much more than “She’s align with scum and help them win”.

As far as the issue with Xykfu and Skybird; it may be true that you had to argue Xykfu into triggering the event (although I have a note that says you guys thought it would be refunded and could be used more than once, so you might be overplaying the hesitance to use angle just a tad?), but that still doesn't explain why a scum team informed of that ability, including the stress requirement, would have chosen to kill Yume and raise stress and even put Skybird in danger in the first place. Go back and re-read when Yume was killed. You will see people literally mocking the scum team for doing it and saying they had helped town (which was unbelievably ugly and hurtful towards Yume, which I believe I said something about at the time).

First off you are arguing optimal play again without all known facts here once again. And you are also completely sidestepping the notion that perhaps the scum team thought Skybird would not be “Trap for Clod”ed since she was not under fire. And at the end of the day – scum actions don’t always have to make sense until you see the big picture.

Take Andrius’s recently ended Defcon Mafia 4. Terrorist GreyICE’s decision to Sub Nuke a player who was already slated to be nuked made no sense in the context of the game. It is one of the main reasons I had a hard time thinking he was that role since it appeared to most everyone involved to be a completely pants-on-head play. Yet that’s exactly what happened. Grey made some logical leaps and shot when rationally he could have just waited 36 or so hours to see if PZ was actually killed and then fired his one shot for the day if PZ was not killed.

Same certainly could be the case for the Yume decision. You are spinning a narrative for clearing yourself that is pinned on multiple assumptions that aren’t necessarily true.

We're clear (or at least should be) because of the totality of our play throughout the whole game.

If this were the case I would not be toying with voting you right now.

P.S. - As for the trust tell thing, I've recently had a game I modded ruined over almost exactly the same type of claim/phrasing.

Link it then.

[Reasonably Rational]

MoI ... just look at Skybird's role card. She was immune to everything but events. Why even put her at risk? It makes no sense.

As for your "spinning a narrative" comment; you're wrong. We're town so our play is simply our play and we reacted to and prodded and tested things as we figured the game out. There's a clear progression and reaction to things as we learned them and figured them out. I mean ... did you forget that we figured out the Crystal Gems existed before anyone (but the Gems, of course) had any clue?

As far as Farside goes, you can't have missed the post where I asked her to clearly tell how far she was from getting her claimed wincon and then giving her a plan to get it. And given how her points ACTUALLY accumulated (which she lied about), she could have gotten that personal win and exited the game which is what we originally wanted. It's clear from the fact that we told Random well before that time that we feared her leaving the game and causing a scum win and the fact that I literally offered her the win so that we could eliminate that as a threat ... that we really did initially view her primarily as a lesser threat. It was only after she rejected that and started spewing lies into the game that we assumed she was lying about the whole "I'm compatible town who can have a personal win that won't hurt you" thing. There's a night and day difference in how we viewed her before and after, and it's clear as day if you read it in context.

The game in question is here. The discussion of the "I have never bused" assertion made by one player with the listmods went on beyond the time Mina closed the thread, so I didn't address it in that thread as planned, but you can clearly see that it was a problem and that it ended up in a ruined game. You can read the latter part of House's ISO to see him complaining about the other player. I had more PMs from that incident than any other game ever. You can also, fwiw, find House in the banned thread for his actions in wrecking the game.

~Drixx

[Randomnamechange]

I feel like voting for myself right now bc town is bound and determine to self implode........ but

NO

If I have to I will drag the town toward a town victory kicking and screaming if necessary

Shiro
Actually Mastin would be a better kill since she is conftown.......No way I would of not taken out MOI or Random if I had the chance if I was scum .......

Scum play makes no sense at all....... why not kill conf town the other night when they had a chance......either they did not make a kill or was RB

bc saying you vigged conf town is great play

@mastin im a gut player. I can't do a great job of explaining why I townread RR. But I do

[Shiro]

1. How do you know that?
2. Are you arguing he never had a Vig Kill?

I don't, I am speculating

He did, I think he is a scum vig or something.