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First things first, since there are 10 days left in which to lynch, I'd appreciate if someone would take me out of L-1 right now, thx. You can deliberate my lynch again once we've been better acquainted.
So I haven't scoured the game yet, but I've run through the ISOs of the dead, wrapped my head around the setup in general, and very roughly skimmed the rest. I'll read in more depth over the next 24 hours.
In the meantime, I'd really, really like to see what
Jin
and
garmr
have to say about each other. If someone believes that this has been done by both parties recently, please point me in the right direction.
Also, if a decent case hasn't been made to justify the votes on my slot yet, I'd like to see one. I'm happy to have
nn30
as my wagon's representative.
Finally, am I understanding correctly that another set of lynch/nks like the previous one will end the game?
In post 689, nn30 wrote:@Boring - I'll unvote for now, but I'm still legit scared of your scum play.
UNVOTE:
As far as the 'wagon representative' goes, you can read the thread like I'm making KMD. I want to hear your thoughts before I give you anything else.
You chose to vote an inactive slot at a crucial point in the game. It implies that you've reviewed the content provided by other players and found it less suspicious than low-activity (which is decidedly NAI). That suggests you are merely looking for low-hanging fruit, which implies scum motivation.
So, I'll ask you again to please explain why you were voting my slot, or point me what you believe to be the best argument for my slot's lynch.
Being unable or unwilling to explain or justify a vote that you've allowed to get to L-1 is pretty fucking anti-town.
Considering the apparent fact that you, someone who presumably has been reading the game, haven't found a single extant slot scummier than the inactive one, I think I've found a good resting point for the evening.
I'm glad I checked one last time.... In case someone hammers me before I get back, nn30, Jin, and garmr are my biggest suspects thus far.
Also, I think mass claim would be a good idea today because the game could be over for town before we see day 4. Since this is an open setup, it would either narrow the scum pool by two (hopefully more if the role cop got lucky), or give us a 1v1 situation.
In post 89, drealmerz7 wrote:ooof, are we still talking about this no-lynch stuffs? well, good I guess, but only because it created content, well done 1SVT!
it's helped me get some reads
1SVT - not serious vote in that he doesn't really want no-lynch, serious in that he did it to get reactions or at least serious RVS (knowing it's a joke), which means nothing (which I don't think scum would do in RVS, this is a case in point as to why, ppl are too touchy about even the mention of it, even in RVS) - townleany for this
30nn - view of situation is similar to mine, I think others are trying to possibly make the NL vote seem more scummy than it was and they are the ppl to look at - very townlean here
PP - bit towny after it
Pine - bit scummy after it
TB - the most scummy after it
In post 60, Dark Horse wrote: are you saying that suggesting No lynch is something that seems more town than scum
No, and I don't like to talk in generalities, if you're still unclear on my position in regards to
this
game, let me know, everything else is theoretical and a distraction.
all the RVS votes of stupidity and meaninglessness, and ppl just want to KILLLLL the person who has a peaceable approach, even in RVS!!! I generally tend to look for scum in the ppl who are trying to make an issue out of an RVS no-lynch vote -
now, saying that, no-lynch is GENERALLY a bad idea for town on D1 and scum know that and don't draw themselves into attention by doing that, so there is just a ton of WIFOM there anyway and I think the simple "attention draw" about it has me lean town about it rather than scum
I love to throw out a no-lynch vote for reactions on occasion. Or sometimes I do want it because of reasons (no good scum reads and being a cop, for example.)
I'm scum reading you for your '!' and '!!!' in the above post.
Seems like you're trying to pretend to have a reaction here.
*shrug*
Anecdotally, I won my first scum game by suggesting a no-lynch D1 and intentionally playing it off like I was newb town. I knew exactly what I was doing and it worked like a charm so it is a viable strategy if you know how to pull it off.
Town has good reason to denounce the no-lynch suggestion: the only motivations for it are scum or bad town play.
Well, I often use a lot of punctuation, caps, italics, etc, to empassion my words. It's NAI for me, and I'ma not change, of course. Don't know what else to tell you cept it's all genuine. *shrug* (hey, I *shrug* often enough too!)
In your win, did you suggest it in RVS, or later? Anecdotally, in my first game I argued a lot for a no-lynch despite the rigorous explanations of why it wasn't a good idea, and most ppl were definitely aware that I might just be pretending to be noob about it and actual scum. I was an investigative role though and knew I'd get a result and so used that to push the issue (and knew I wouldn't likely get NKed because of the controversy.) It's actually become a whole thing with me on my HS, no-lynch discussion / voting and all that. I sometimes will do no-lynch in RVS to indicate I have an investigative role, but for that reason I also do it when I don't and for other reasons, just randomly really anymore, to keep it all mixed up.
In post 88, Dark Horse wrote:What exactly is a rate where scum reads "develop naturally," nn. It seems like this is where our disagreement stems from
This question is a bit scummy to me, a little reminiscent of the question you asked me about "does that mean you think it's towny to vote no-lynch" which felt a bit like you were trying to twist what I said but I let it go then...
asking for an "exact rate" of something that "develops naturally" is a bit ridiculous
it's like asking how fast the grass grows - you can get an AVERAGE rate, but an exact rate is impossible, because it FLUCTUATES depending on the specifics of the environment/climate
reads develop naturally - case by case basis game by game, it just depends how much the scumness grows and how much that is counteracted by townness
I've caught up.
I have some more questions before I post my thoughts.
1) What are your current reads on everyone?
2) Pine, please give me your current thoughts on Jin, nn30, and PP
3) garmr, let's assume for a moment that Pine was revealed to be a conf. town. Who would you lynch next?
I still think a mass claim is the right move here and now. I'll elaborate.
Town is a mess. At least one, if not two, of the "trusted" voices are scum (nn30, pine, garmr, jin). There's no other explanation for this town death rate. If you were all town, you'd have stronger reads than "hur, dur, let's lynch the lurker" on
Day fucking 3
. Those of you who are town, should probably recognize that you're in a state of shambles and likely to lose if things continue.
I realize that the jailkeeper and remaining goon will neutralize/kill our PRs tonight, but from the looks of things, we'll benefit more from having at least two conf. town for the rest of the day and 1+ remaining tomorrow, than we would from the possible utility of one more days' anonymity.
However, I'm more than willing for our vig and rolecop to just claim "PR", unless further clarification is required. Scum would have to out themselves to force them to be more specific, which is also beneficial.
As a concession to professor nn30's book report assignment, I'll give you PP/kmd as my most confident town lean. I won't explain yet, though.
Also, in retrospect, I guess I provided some pretty hefty spoilers to my thoughts. Either way, I'm not one for summary posts. Just assume I've always been here (since my predecessor couldn't have posted more than 100 words this game, it's not a stretch).
Thank you, nn. As follow-up, if one of garmr or Pine absolutely had to be scum, who do you think is more likely? I realize your response doesn't necessarily constitute a scum read, as they are both in your town pile, but please humor me.
Also, I'd like to know everyone else's thoughts on my mass claim proposal. If only a couple stalwart against it, that's telling in itself.
the quotes on post #704 were added accidentally. They've no bearing on my post whatsoever. I was using the Q+ mechanic in my note-taking process, and I failed to clear those ones out, apparently. Hence, my appeal to the mod for them to be edited out.
I think he's been uncomfortably accommodating. Still sorting the four of you out.
In post 711, nn30 wrote:
I was asking why they were in your process at all. What about them did you want to get across (or think about) when you added them to your list of things to consider?.
At the moment, I think I was looking for Dark Horse's relationship with the scum team, and the scum's relationship with other players. For example, it looked to me like Dreamer was trying to pocket Penguin for a little while.
p-edit: Please elaborate on your boring/LUV team theory, Pine, and your POE process in general. I'd further appreciate if you made a real go at getting either him or I lynched today. That is, if you feel strongly enough about it.
@kmd, I see that you are scum reading LUV. How much stock do you put into meta reads. I just finished playing a scum game with him as one of my partners, and the difference between that and this feels significant to me. He's so much breezier. Granted, that was only his second scum game, so he may have improved in the last month or so. He's also so darned lynch-bait-ish even as town. I'd feel far more comfortable leaving him for the vig to sort out, if possible.
Even if I'm dead wrong, and he is scum, I'd still prefer to find and lynch his partner, who presumably is more experienced and therefore more likely to fuck us up (sorry LUV). We still have a week left, so it's doable.
You're right though, I'd settle for any guilties or innocents from the rolecop, if it could get us a conf. town or an accurate lynch.
I looked in the wiki though, and I'm unsure as to whether he/she would get a different result for a goon and a vanilla. Anyone know? If they return the same, then RC might not have anything for us.
By the way, nn30, I still don't understand why you had a vote on my slot. Every reason for voting 1shotv that I saw from anyone were for NAI reasons. There might have been some policy to it, but we're well beyond the point where policy lynches are appropriate.
I'd also like some sort of explanation for this sequence of events:
Spoiler:
In post 258, nn30 wrote:@Town - I found a bad guy in Penguin. Help me out here, let's string him up
[...]
In post 310, Pine wrote:Surface level is exactly what Garmr's on about. He keeps talking about what Drealmerz SAID, not what he DID. He SAID ThinkBig, and then DID go after me.
In post 310, Pine wrote:Surface level is exactly what Garmr's on about. He keeps talking about what Drealmerz SAID, not what he DID. He SAID ThinkBig, and then DID go after me.
In post 354, nn30 wrote:Either PP is dumb town or scum for saying what I quote in 281.
Or smart town for baiting scum to go off...hard to tell with you since your reads are so bad.
Yep.
If he actually believed anything he just said I'd be getting a vote right now.
This is so bad.
Found one boys.
VOTE: Penguin
I don't get why you'd be pursuing PP, then suddenly (with a forced tone) agree with him on TB (because you finally bothered to check his ISO?). Then you, just as awkwardly, act convinced by a random statement by Pine to vote TB. You follow that up with an unvote over basically nothing. Then suddenly, TB is a townlean, PP is your scumpool, and the two players who supposedly swayed you back and forth (Pine and garmr) are unaffected in your eyes. By the way, now, the PP/kmd is a town lean again?
By the way, please don't use the same tired "misrep" excuse you've invoked every time you've been called out for something this game. I want you to at least
In post 726, Kmd4390 wrote:Boring, meta reads depend on the usage. I remember Mirth saying she didn't believe in universal scum tells once and I kind of agree. So many things can change the way a person plays such as playerlist, real life, speed of a game, size of a game. But over time, patterns do develop that are alignment based. I've never finished a game with Lil, so I obviously haven't seen any of those patterns. Feel free to expand on that if you have though. Are you saying that it was obvious in thread that he was nervous about being scum in the other game? Do you have quotes that show that?
In post 728, Kmd4390 wrote:^That vote count is exactly why we need to massclaim. We're so out of touch with each other that scum can basically do whatever they want. Let's cut or lynch pool some
In post 730, Kmd4390 wrote:Make sure everyone agrees first but popcorn is probably fine.
@kmd or anyone. Are we allowed to quote out of mafia PTs from completed games?
Also, does popcorn mean that we just randomly claim with no order? I agree that it will be fine unless people drag their heels in. If we establish a reveal order, we pressure scum to participate.
So 4/7 of us are on board at this point? me, kmd, garmr, and jin? Just LUV, pine, and nn30 to convince.
In post 736, nn30 wrote:@Boring - you just finished a game with me. You know how flippity floppity I can be. What I saw, and put into, those posts is exactly what I was feeling at the time. I'm not explaining a 10 post sequence of events in detail. If there's something you want to know specifically let me know.
This is worse. You're trying to use a VI defense again, and I think it's more deliberate than a last-minute realization. Last game, you could at least explain your thoughts after the fact. Now, you appear hesitant to commit too much actual substance to the page.
That said, I'm still waiting for you to explain why you were voting my slot.
I've already presented scum motivation for your vote on my slot. You called it a misrep and made no attempt to correct me. Your ongoing refusal to provide any alternative motivation is incredible. This is my fifth and final attempt to solicit an explanation for this very specific, very simple thing.
For the record, it's not the mind change I suspect. It's what changed your mind, when, and how. It's your drastic, unexplained changes.
I need you to explain/defend yourself. Be transparent, cooperate, provide me/us with the substance necessary to demonstrate town motivation. If you're town, for the love of peanut butter, show me.
In post 769, Kmd4390 wrote:Yeah, what Garmr said. Vig should simply claim power role. Role cop should do the same unless they have a result on someone who is still alive.
I think Secret Agent Jin is a good choice too. He's been soothing, accommodating, and friendly. Not damning on its own, of course, but it seems to be all he's done. I don't recall any attempts at scum-hunting, though he's piled on a vote or two.
I think he's at L-2, but I've counted wrong before, and I don't want to accidentally hammer.
In post 780, Pine wrote:Well, for starters, you're the one actively managing the voting process. In a quiet game like this, I always suspect people who seem to select targets out of the blue and then push them. From where I stand, I rather think you're looking at numbers and hoping for a quick end. If vig shoots Town again tonight, scum wins. Jin's kind of low-hanging fruit, but hasn't done anything scummy. In contrast, your predecessor active-lurked and was a bit opportunistic, while you came in and have been trying to run the Town. I don't like it, it looks scummy to me.
Wow, that came across a little petulant.
I'll admit I'm really excited by this game, and I do find the low activity a little disheartening. Maybe it's made me over-enthusiastic. That aside, do you feel like town was running well enough on its own before I came along? Specifically, did you think this game was heading toward a town win before I subbed in? What makes Jin low-hanging fruit to you (as opposed to genuinely scummy)?
In post 780, Pine wrote:Well, for starters, you're the one actively managing the voting process. In a quiet game like this, I always suspect people who seem to select targets out of the blue and then push them. From where I stand, I rather think you're looking at numbers and hoping for a quick end. If vig shoots Town again tonight, scum wins. Jin's kind of low-hanging fruit, but hasn't done anything scummy. In contrast, your predecessor active-lurked and was a bit opportunistic, while you came in and have been trying to run the Town. I don't like it, it looks scummy to me.
Wow, that came across a little petulant.
I'll admit I'm really excited by this game, and I do find the low activity a little disheartening. Maybe it's made me over-enthusiastic. That aside, do you feel like town was running well enough on its own before I came along? Specifically, did you think this game was heading toward a town win before I subbed in? What makes Jin low-hanging fruit to you (as opposed to genuinely scummy)?
He's got a low post count, low content. Given your options, taking into account that Garmr, NN, and I are all widely TRed, he's the easiest option.
That actually leaves me and LUV as the lowest hanging fruit by your definition. Of course, you had a vote on my slot and you quite recently said you're most suspicious of LUV and I.
Why have you townread Garmr and nn30, by the way? Is there anything you can point to that's lead to you town read them? I'd love a chance to knock them out of my scum pool.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think sussing out shenanigans is kind of the point of a mass claim. We have evidence that someone has lied. Unfortunately, that someone is a PR, which is really harmful at this point. Anyway, if nn30 was scum, he'd at least be really tempted to claim PR at this point. He'd have a leg up in a 1v1, and probably get a PR lynched. Unless I'm missing a huge counter argument, that's a huge plus for nn30.
@Pine, why is kmd okay to vote for Jin, but not okay for me?
@Jin, you're right. I don't have any specific thing to point to in suspecting you. Pine is right too in that you're the 'weakest' of the towny-cluster from when I entered. I have a feeling that you're the weakest for a reason.
@garmr, how are you feeling about Pine now? I know you've had several moments this game where you thought he was scum.
p-edit: fair enough. It's just that I know my alignment, LUV is looking to be a PR, and I could be wrong, but kmd seems really town to me. That leaves just you, nn30, Jin, and garmr. The "TReds". Town's huge disorganization points to you fellas being scum too, even without the POE. So while I understand your statement, Pine, you can hopefully understand my frustration. At least one, if not both scum is being townread, and I can't figure out who. To top it off, one of our potential conf. town have lied. It's really sucky because the whole point was to establish leaders or at trustworthy town as a solid ground that we could use to solve the game. Even worse, you're saying it's scummy to question townread players, which makes no sense, at all.
In post 789, Garmr wrote:Boring It kinda annoys me you keep insinuating that I may be scum because I'm widely being town read. You also leave pine off that list even through he is widely town read as well. So instead of just saying these people may be scum it's gotta be one of them and potentially mislynching a townie in mylo because of paranoia, you go through every suspected town reads iso and list why they could be scum and why they could be town.
I've never left Pine off. At least, I don't think I have. I don't expect to be too hasty in MYLO, if I get there either. I'd just like to get there. We could lose today/tonight, and that's my biggest worry right now. I'm sorry that it annoys you, but I just don't buy that all the townread players are town. Also, I have gone through the ISO's already, but I feel like I need more information. Especially for you and Pine. If we could get a confirmation on one of the four of you, this will be so much easier.
p-edit: I'm assuming that our mod would have sent out some kind of "get your NA's in to me by such-and-such time" message to remind them. I've not been a town PR on this site, but I know they usually do that in the scum PT. It would be weird not to do it for the PRs.
In post 793, Garmr wrote:
This game I feel like I have been better at town hunting than scum hunting. Then again town seems to have a obsession with killing my strongest town reads. Maybe If I look through some facts it will be easier.
@kmd - were you playing an alt in Wake's game, or is my memory just awful?
@nn30, I'm confused about your case. Are you scum reading kmd because of the change of heart and the VT clarification? For the former, I believe kmd gave a pretty decent explanation for the scum lean on garmr (even if I'm not sure I follow the reasoning). As to the latter, I think we're interpreting the motivation differently. I guess I took it as a statement of accountability.
In post 835, Garmr wrote:Now the other power role is a dick for not claiming earlier on.
They're just being cautious and a little near-sighted. I can't fault them entirely because it's been hard to know who to trust in this game. I wanted the mass claim so we could have trustworthy voices and a narrowed scum pool. We have LUV, at least, and maybe more. That's a start.
It's actually awesome because LUV is, as Pine would put it, low-hanging fruit.
I think I'm going to try to wade through some meta now, and I really don't want to.
Hey, are you guys seeing what I'm seeing comparing Jin's ISOs between our game, and Hunger Games II?
He's pretty assertive in the scumhunting there, and he keeps on topic. Just as important, he seems to be thinking for himself there, and doesn't hesitate to bring up new stuff. In our current game, he skirts around scumhunting topics keeping to bland, middle-of-the-road comments. The most game-solvey he's been is "that's probably TvT so I won't touch it".
I'm about to look at garmr next. I think that if Jin is scum, then either garmr or nn30 are chainsawing. I'm leaning toward garmr.
Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.
The problem with garmr's games is that he seems to have taken a several month break between then and now. I don't know how long meta reads are good for.
You might have had crappy reads, but there was a clear effort to hunt and solve. Being wrong happens to everyone. I've been told that "great scumhunters" are still only 50/50 (which is all town needs to win, I suppose). In this game, I'm not seeing the same spark of initiative, and none of the drive.
In that other game, you mentioned that you play on another site. How long have you played there? Do you feel like the formats there and here are too different to consolidate the experiences?
In post 843, boring wrote:Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.
I can take many tones with my scum game. But I think it's obvious that I'm town this game.
Why?
In post 848, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
Let me ask this, if we mislynch this phase then scum kill tonight whats the odds starting next day phase?
You know the answer. Especially if vig shoots town. So if you'd be a mislynch, where do you think we should be looking?
In post 843, boring wrote:Looking at a garmr scum game, Open 637 Fire and Ice and a town game, Mini1785, I can't see much difference in tone. There's a lot of hostility in both, with a tendency to hypertunnel. The one difference I see is more one-line posts in the scum game than the town. I'm not sure if it means anything.
I can take many tones with my scum game. But I think it's obvious that I'm town this game.
Why?
I feel like it should be obvious to anyone who's been here from the start.
Why should it be obvious to anyone who's been here from the start? Why would they see it differently than those of us who came in later?
I was under the impress that a fresh perspective late-game helps to clear out some of the bias, so please forgive me if I find your differentiation peculiar.
@garmr, I guess I don't know the difference between investigation and shade. I like to voice concerns as they arise, and ask questions. I find it very strange for people to call themselves obv. town without knowing why.
@Jin - If they're your top scum reads, how likely is a kmd+nn30 scum team in your mind?
This is a slot I'm fairly certain is town - I'd like to hear why you think it is scum.
I should admit now that of the four of you, I've been most suspicious of Jin and garmr since I subbed in. I just wanted to see if I could be convinced otherwise first. That's why one of my first actions was to see how the two of them feel about each other. Obviously, you pinged me right away, but that feeling is subsiding somewhat.
He's not quite as strong a read as Jin, but here are a few little things adding together for me. In no particular order:
1. He hammered Flubber after Pine, his supposed scum read, put him at L-1.
2. He has focused on Pine almost to the exclusion of other players. It's so convenient, too. It allows him the illusion of scum hunting while actually contributing nothing to town.
3. He is very twitchy about even the slightest poking and prodding. As if investigation isn't part of the scum hunting process. Though, this could be shoved into NAI if it was the only thing. Some people just get big heads about being town read early, and then won't entertain the idea that eventually, their time will come *throws a significant glance at no one in particular*.
4. When asked about Jin, this was his response:
Spoiler:
In post 698, Garmr wrote:@Boring I Feel like it's pretty obvious i'm town but my thoughts on jin I'm not sure. You did remind me of something jin said through.
In post 635, Secret Agent Jin wrote:
The f'n doctor? He hid well but what reason does the scum have for killing Dark? I feel if Pine/Garmr would have been killed then eyes would have been pointed toward the other one and it would be easier to do that. Ill have to ISO Dark as, i regretfully admit, he has been one of two players i didnt really pay much attention towards, the other being LUV. The main people posting a lot were Garmr, NN, PP, and Pine so i unfortunately didnt look at Dark/LUV much.
@Garmr: What exactly took you off of looking at Pine?
@LUV: I would like the explanation you talked about. Only because it seemed you to not pay too much attention to Pine yesterday but Gamr did and this day phase you two switched. Is there info we should have or should we not worry too much for right now?
I think the bolded is odd but I can't work out a reason why someone would say that. I don't think it's scummy or town just odd.
This isn't really an answer. It's an illusion of an answer. When asked about garmer, Jin's response was
Spoiler:
In post 700, Secret Agent Jin wrote:In saying that, i do believe that Garmr is town from the way he handled his read on Pine and through general conversation and interaction with everyone else. He did drive his scumread of Pine sort of hard but he ended up being able to avoid the tunnel and compromise on a different lynch.
It looks so much like a partner towing the company line. However, it seems like Jin can't even mention garmr without referencing Pine. As if that's garmr's entire identity this game. That, and the opportunistic counter-wagon hop to save Jin. By the way, I know pre-flip associations are frowned upon, but with a vig in the game, it's not a bad idea to give "if, then" statements here and there.
5. His "it's pretty obvious I'm town" changing to "it's obvious to those who were here from the beginning that I'm town" is the type of switch I often see in people who are losing a power grip.
To be fair, one town point in his favor
:
He seemed to actually advocate for his town reads when they had wagons. That's a risky move for scum (not that I've never done it, but I don't see it a lot).
Wow, I'm sorry if I said anything inappropriate or if I perosnally offended you. I realize this game involves an element of objectification (seeing other players as puzzles), but I clearly crossed a line for you to respond like that.
If you're town, and you think I'm town, please don't punish everyone else by playing against win our condition.
In post 891, Secret Agent Jin wrote:Can i at least have the answers to why i am being lynch rather than people saying i am scummy and voting me?
I think I've made this case already, but it boils down to the big picture. It's pretty easy to worm your way into the middle of the town pack as scum, but it's much harder to accumulate actual town points. I haven't seen any reason to town read you.
More specifically, I've seen no attempts to scumhunt. I've seen a lot of pacifying remarks. You "wouldn't touch" the Pine v. garmr conflict, though you mention it plenty. If you're trying to solve the game, why be avoidant? You don't say things first, only second. As far as I recall, you've not voted first on a wagon, either (outside RVS). There's been no initiative. You've been present in the game just long enough to foster good will, and then receded back into the shadows. You've appeased, floated along, and survived.
This might just be how you do you, except looking at that completed town game, it's not. You are quite capable of following your hunches, and coming up with ideas. Your personality shined through the same, but your big picture was town. Even now, I think if you were town, you'd be trying to point us toward a better target, or at least try to fight it, like you did in that other game.
Now, if I'm/we're dead wrong, and you
do
flip town, we'll probably lose. Vig is gonna do what vig is gonna do, and I don't think he/she/it will be terribly open to suggestions. The most helpful thing I can think of (in the absence of any actual clears) would be your last testament. So Jin, this would be the time to make a case, if you have one to make. You've named a few suspects, but there's been no substance. We have three days left.
For not self-hammering. Though, that paragraph still had a scummy ring to it.
BTW, I'm really not trying to be a leader. In any other game I've been in, I'd be a middle-to-low-poster. I just don't like losing, and I subbed in with the knowledge that you guys were about to lynch yet another town.
