LicketyQuickety's Mini Normal - 1847

[Kmd4390]

Hello. Will do some reading later. Anyone wanna fill me in?

[Kmd4390]

I've played too much mafia for people's thoughts to cloud my own like that.

[Kmd4390]

Fair enough.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I'm doing this page by page. If things are outdated, deal with it. This is more for me than it is for you guys. I'll have some comments and questions on just about every page. My goal is to get through at least 15 pages tonight. Anything else, I should have done tomorrow night.

Page 1:
I don't like secret agent opening the game with a boring ego post. Why not vote or make a lame joke or something? I'm sure after 27 pages this won't be significant in any way, but I'd have poked and prodded there if I'd played this game from the beginning. He made a real RVS vote in post 18 anyway.

Pine's RVS vote on dreal (flipped scum) feels like he's going out of his way to show that his vote is a joke. Secret agent's vote was the same way and then he avoided voting dreal. Yes, this is weak page 1 crap, but I could see either of those as scumbuddy interactions.

Page 2:
Pine calling dreal guaranteed scum is more of what I saw on page 1.

Can't wait to see where 1 shot's no lynch vote went. His reaction to thinkbig's vote feels town though so consider that my first legit read.

Page 3:
Lil's point about 1 shot trying to prevent discussion is BS. No one actually thinks as scum that they can stop people from talking. That's just not how scum thinks.

Nn seems to be making real attempts to scumhunt and is openly talking about his scum meta. Town points

Wow. Pine got pretty serious in the whole no lynch thing. Lol.

Page 4:
I don't like Pine's OMGUS on josh or his attempt to pin it on nn. I guess this is turning into a real scum read.

Not sure how josh is the only one standing out to secret agent when, as he acknowledges, quite a few people have participated at this point.

Page 5:
This page is all drama around josh and I didn't get anything out of it from living players so on to the next page.

Page 6/7:
Garmr looks town. I like that he recognizes his differences with 1 shot as playstyle and his josh view feels genuine. Also, changing his mind on something while in the shower shows a genuine thought process because it shows that he's actively thinking about the game and his reads even while he's away from it. I've done this at work before.

At this point, josh is obvtown. It should be clear that he thought he was dead when he claimed. Lil not unvoting doesn't look so good. I realize thinkbig (dead town) didn't unvote either, but he's clearly caught in his tunnel.

On a related note, I like Pine's unvote of josh. Maybe I was wrong about him.

Page 8:
Yeah, Pine's dreal vote here reads as legit rather than bussing.

I don't like lil unvoting because of replacement right after a few others unvote. I doubt he's townreading josh for replacing out so it feels more like unvoting because the opportunity to lynch josh is gone.

And I'm through Day 1. Quick break then I'll read more

[Kmd4390]

Ok moving on...

Quick thought on that lynch. Either the entire scum team was on the wagon or I need to prepare myself to be wrong about my town reads on garmr or 1 shot. I'll keep this in the back of my mind.

Page 9:
My reads on lil, pine, and nn are strengthening. That's scum on lil and town on the other two. I don't like how lil is explaining himself and doing nothing else. I do like pine's thought process on the mislynch. I also like nn's thoughts on pine.

Not sure what to make of Pine and Garmr's discussion. Like I feel like I agree with Garmr more, but if one of them is scum in this conversation, I feel like it's him. If that makes sense

Page 10:
I've agreed with nn a lot so far, but his reasons for townreading lil aren't very good.

Ok, I'm done for the night. Getting late. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to finish this tomorrow

[Kmd4390]

Nn, That's just how I've been doing it in the last year or two when I have a pretty solid amount of reading to do. Seems to get me into the flow of the game better than anything else. Can you be more specific on your meta on Lil? What feels genuine here? What didn't before?

[Kmd4390]

That's still not specific...

[Kmd4390]

"Making"...

Like I wasn't going to read already anyway lol

[Kmd4390]

I really hope I get through this tonight, but it's not looking exactly 100%.

Page 11:Nn's case on penguin looks more misguided than mallicious. Like I think he sees something he disagrees with and just assumes that makes penguin scum. It doesn't seem intentional. Just wrong.

Hmm. Pine and Secret Agent both made posts on this page that I like. Pine makes a good point about newbie tells on thinkbig and secret agent basically says what I'm thinking about nn vs penguin. Secret Agent's 272 also feels pretty open and honest.

Page 12:
Just more nn vs penguin. Nothing changed. It just looks like town players trying to sort each other and not seeing eye to eye

Page 13:
Not entirely sure what to make of the arguement over dreal's interactions with pine. If anything, the overly sarcastic paragraph dreal directed at pine and pine's vote on dreal quoted in the same post look scum/town. Garmr makes it sound like it's easy to see scum/scum interaction, but I'm agreeing with 1 shot here.

I'd like to know why nn sheeped pine's vote on thinkbig, but it's probably outdated enough that he doesn't remember. nn, do you?

Good point from nn about secret agent. Dreal's "prepare to scum read me" post doesn't look like something he'd say to a scumbuddy.

Interesting. Thinkbig was shaping up to be the lynch, replaced out, and Secret agent thinks it will help everyone see him differently. To me, that sounds like someone who doesn't want thinkbig lynched. But thinkbig was town so maybe it doesn't mean anything. Just sounded weird.

Page 14:
Just more of the dreal/pine interactions discussion. I still don't agree with garmr. I'm not getting a read on garmr based on it though. Pine is likely town.

Page 15:
Ya know, for all this talk about dreal, nobody has claimed the kill on him. Did that ever happen later? I'm not saying anyone needs to, and I'd rather they didn't, but if it's already happened, that makes things a little easier if I know that.

Garmr's thing about having a gut read on dreal that he didn't tell us about doesn't sound like something scum would say. It's more likely to be genuine than a cheap attempt at town cred for getting a read right when there's no evidence of it in thread.

Just realized it's probably not clear where my guesses for scum are. Leaning Lil and secret agent still. I've really been townreading the more active players (nn, pine, garmr)

Page 16:
Nn asking shadow to "play nice" with him was weird.

Page 17:
Ok, the "play nice" comment makes sense now.

Zzzzzz. This is getting to be a pretty dry read. My battery is getting low anyway. I'll get back to this later.

[Kmd4390]

Two reasons

1) I was taking care of two kids while doing that part of the read and forgot about it.

2) There are reasons to town read just about everyone in this game. Some of those are sure to be wrong.

[Kmd4390]

Page 18:
There's a complicated thing about Lil/1 shot here, but going into it would be anti town so this is for myself. I'll expand on it later if I remember.

Page 19:
Definitely not buying Garmr's point about Pine coaching dreal in thread. I don't think I've actually seen that happen before even though the accusation pops up about once in every three games.

Very interested to see what Pine did after shadow flipped town.

So the more I think about these associative tells and how they seem to clear people who otherwise may be scum (Pine, Secret Agent), the more I think we might have one scum and one SK left. It fits with the number of kills each night and the fact that I've got too many town reads. Just a theory for now, but it makes sense to me. Also fits with the Day 1 vote count where I had town reads on the only two living players not on the lynch wagon because a SK obviously wouldn't be coordinating with scum, so if 1 shot and Garmr are both town, I'm even more likely to lean in this direction

Page 20:
Hmm. Pine might be town even if there is a SK. So now I'm thinking Lil for scum and Secret Agent for SK. God, I feel like Titus right now...

Page 21:
Of course my scum reads swing momentum off of a town lynch. It seems like they'd let the shadow lynch go through as scum, but Lil and Secret Agent were important votes in the Flubber lynch. Then again, if they aren't aligned together, they have less knowledge over remaining alignments. Why is this SK theory making so much damn sense? I don't usually do this but it just fits.

Page 22:
Pine, do you honestly believe that if shadow had been scum, scum wouldn't seize the opportunity to jump that flubber wagon?

Lil's 545 and 546 rub me the wrong way. The first feels...like over correcting. Like he's apologetically correcting a mistake that no one cared about. I'm describing it poorly, but it feels off. The second one just repeats a question that was already asked by someone else. It doesn't feel like he's trying to scumhunt at all.

Page 23:
Holy shit this flubber wagon is bad and I'm sure there's scum on it even if it's not the people I'm already scumreading.

Page 24:
Funny. Secret Agent's description of normal scum play fits his own play here.

Page 24/25:
I actually like garmr delaying the hammer to let less active players keep talking. I agree with his follow up after nn called him out for the most part. The only reason for scum to do it is for town points, but he didn't need that with no pressure on him and apparently it wouldn't have worked anyway.

Page 25:
Pine forgetting the non-scum kill makes it less likely that he's SK, if one exists, if that post was genuine and I see no reason to think it wasn't.

Oh fuck. This game is an open. I'm an idiot. There's no SK. I've talked way too much about it to go delete everything and still have any thoughts in this post and I'm not reading all of that again. Um. That kind of destroys my whole thought process. Well, I still think Lil is scum. Whoever the other one is, *shrug*. They're doing something right because I'm at a loss. Fuck, I really dropped the ball here.

Garmr's delaying the hammer thing is still a town tell. Pine and Secret Agent still have non-associatives in their favor. Nn is still town as fuck. 1 shot didn't do a single scummy thing. Where am I wrong? Could it be 1 shot?

Have we considered massclaiming? Doing so in LYLO allows for scum counterclaim shenanigans that we'd pretty much get out of the way at the right time if we did it today with 7 alive. And the rolecop could help a ton. There are benefits to holding off such as keeping power roles alive and letting them act one more night, so I'd like everyone to weigh in before we decide.

Page 26:
Nn, why the town read on Lil? And why openly discuss that you thought pine could be vig?

Page 27:
Secret agent, why the vig speculation? This is dumb and people keep doing it. What the fuck

Actually, this whole page secret agent is pretty much the most active he's been and is doing more vig hunting than scum hunting. I'm back to scumreading him.

I like this talk of a Lil lynch. I'm pretty much back to my read of a Lil/secret agent team.

Page 28:
After reading this far, nn reading lil as genuine surprises me.

Actually, boring is right. If the vig shoots tonight, one of the lynch/vig kill has to be on scum otherwise we are 2:2. Based on the win conditions the mod posted, this wouldn't end the game if the vig is still alive, but we'd have to no lynch and have the vig hit scum (or not shoot and let the role cop figure it out) in order to win. Basically, it gets ugly with a cycle of 3 more town deaths.

Page 29:
I like boring's plan for the vig and rolecop to simply claim power role for a massclaim. The only way they shouldn't is if the rolecop has something useful for us.Note: a vig result wouldn't be useful in this case unless scum fake claim a power role.

[Kmd4390]

[Kmd4390]

Boring, meta reads depend on the usage. I remember Mirth saying she didn't believe in universal scum tells once and I kind of agree. So many things can change the way a person plays such as playerlist, real life, speed of a game, size of a game. But over time, patterns do develop that are alignment based. I've never finished a game with Lil, so I obviously haven't seen any of those patterns. Feel free to expand on that if you have though. Are you saying that it was obvious in thread that he was nervous about being scum in the other game? Do you have quotes that show that?

[Kmd4390]

^That vote count is exactly why we need to massclaim. We're so out of touch with each other that scum can basically do whatever they want. Let's cut or lynch pool some

[Kmd4390]

Make sure everyone agrees first but popcorn is probably fine.

[Kmd4390]

And then we clear at least two people and increase our chances of lynching scum. Also helps the vig tonight because they won't hit the role cop if they shoot.

[Kmd4390]

Boring, pretty sure that's allowed as long as the PT was released post game. And popcorn means whoever claims picks the next person to claim.

[Kmd4390]

Lil, I didn't vote because I wanted to discuss massclaim first.

[Kmd4390]

Nah. I don't want a lynch before massclaim and I see no point in adding a vote to pressure you. The vote would serve absolutely no purpose right now.

Did you read my catch up? I'm a little underwhelmed that your read on me is just that you think all I did is catch up. Like as little time as I've spent in this game, I feel like I've done a more than fair amount.

[Kmd4390]

Nah. Four of my posts were catch up.

I'll ask again though. Did you actually read the content of my catch up?

[Kmd4390]

And no thoughts? The only thing you got out of it is that I scumread you?

[Kmd4390]

Vt

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, what Garmr said. Vig should simply claim power role. Role cop should do the same unless they have a result on someone who is still alive.

[Kmd4390]

So NN and Lil are the power roles. Lil isn't scum.

Vote Secret Agent

My second pick.

[Kmd4390]

Well, for starters, you're the one actively managing the voting process. In a quiet game like this, I always suspect people who seem to select targets out of the blue and then push them. From where I stand, I rather think you're looking at numbers and hoping for a quick end. If vig shoots Town again tonight, scum wins. Jin's kind of low-hanging fruit, but hasn't done anything scummy. In contrast, your predecessor active-lurked and was a bit opportunistic, while you came in and have been trying to run the Town. I don't like it, it looks scummy to me.

I'm curious why you're not voting me then if this is your reasoning on boring. Most of it applies to both of us. And not even just the vote like boring pointed out.

Something hinky is going on.

I'm a VT.

So a power role fakeclaimed. Lil is still town though unless both power roles fakeclaimed.

If he is scum he deserves the win

I hate this mentality. If he is scum, we need to lynch him. I don't think he is but this isn't an attitude that wins games for towns.

[Kmd4390]

Also I think people should read their roles again since we were rerolled it would be a head fuck if the role cop didn't do any investigation because they didn't read the reroll.

Double checked mine. Still claiming VT. If I'm a power role, I'm stating now that it was a deliberate fakeclaim and not a mistake.

[Kmd4390]

Well someone obviously did. All I'm saying is that my claim is still VT after checking my Role PM and we'll leave it at that.

[Kmd4390]

Ugh. Can't look at that properly when you color yourself green.

[Kmd4390]

Nn, yeah boring was nervous about being scum in Wake's massive game. See her team's PT. She played well, but was definitely nervous about it.

Secret Agent almost has to be scum by default. Everyone else is just so damn town.

Pine I'm pretty sure is town because of the dreal flip.

Garmr, yeah I tried. It's just hard to look at that way. Your stuff about Pine feels like confirmation bias more than anything. I look at that and get a secret agent/you team. Mostly because I doubt all three scum voted together on the Day 1 lynch and I'm townreading boring which leaves you and secret agent was on both lynches.

[Kmd4390]

1) Read 667 again
2) Forgot the delayed hammer
3) I'm voting Secret Agent and trying to decide later which of my town reads is scum.

Also if you think there's any chance at all I'm trying to absorb a NK, why would you tell scum that? And why leave out the third possibility that maybe I was the fakeclaiming power role?

[Kmd4390]

Played as Egg.

[Kmd4390]

The Josh lynch makes no sense.

The possibilities:
1) one scum off the wagon.
---1a) boring was excited for a scum game or intentionally faked excitement as scum
---1b) garmr delayed that hammer as scum
2) scum late on the wagon. This means lil is not a power role and BOTH power roles fake claimed.
3) or all three scum voted josh early.

All three possibilities feel unreasonable and I can't come up with another.

I don't get it...

Preview edit: so it's completely impossible to the point that you have to make scum aware of it? We need to have a talk postgame. Remind me.

Also, Garmr isn't a scum read for me. He's one of the town reads that I need to be open to the idea of being wrong about because I only have one scum read (secret agent). It's called gamestate.

[Kmd4390]

Garmr, what are you even talking about? I didn't say that you said that. I included it as one of my own possibilities. I was looking at the josh lynch, not your analysis of it.

Whatever. I'm vt. nn was right. I was trying to get scum to kill me. Wasn't convinced it would work, but figured it was worth a try. Also, a power role is trying to stay hidden for some reason. I was trusting them and trying to narrow scum's search by throwing myself back into their pool.

Nn, the point is to see how scum acted with the knowledge that he was town. It's rare for all three scum to vote together. It's rare for no scum to jump on such a tasty mislynch. Basically, scum did something out of the ordinary and what is bugging me is why. But if it's that all three voted together, assuming lil is town, that was dreal's doing and he doesn't strike me as the type to go out of the ordinary like that.

Boring, it's obviously between two people for who lied and it's obvious which of the two power roles they are. Hell, I'm 90% sure I know which of the two it is and it disappoints me that I couldn't protect that person by WIFOMing scum. I'll leave it up to them to elaborate and I understand the reasoning but whatever. The person is obvtown anyway.

[Kmd4390]

^I disagree with that. I'm usually one of the last people to agree to a massclaim as town. It depends on the situation.

[Kmd4390]

In most situations, keeping power roles hidden is enough of a reason not to massclaim.

[Kmd4390]

*shrug*

If all three scum were there, dreal was the one who knowingly voted with his buddies so secret agent's vote being RVS is irrelevant.

[Kmd4390]

Yep. Sarcasm and frustration. Doesn't seem like a scumbuddy. Scum tend to feel like their buddies will back off after distancing so they aren't so bothered by the vote. The exception is newbies and emotional players or a hard bus and none of those apply here.

[Kmd4390]

Garmr, really? I got the impression he knew what he was doing to an extent.

[Kmd4390]

Interesting.

You probably got a better feel for his play than I did because you were actually here real time and I just read it in a catch up. I'll keep it in mind, but I still think secret agent is by far the most likely person to be scum, not pine.

[Kmd4390]

Boring, for what it's worth for meta purposes, I correctly killed Garmrscum as SK once. It was before the game you looked at though, by quite a bit actually. He felt under the radar to me there which isn't even close to how he's played here. Another variable is that that game was a large so it's easier to stay under the radar. This is why meta sucks sometimes. Also, there are advantages and disadvantages to reading after replacing compared to playing from the start. Anyone who has been here all along got a feel for the tone of the game. You and I read the game with more information knowing some flips (unless you are scum and knew alignments anyway).

[Kmd4390]

I agree that it's distant to whoever after Secret agent. The Garmr vs Pine arguements definitely need a closer look tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Because I'm more confident on Secret Agent than I will be admitting that one of my town reads was wrong so he's the only lynch that will interest me today.

[Kmd4390]

I'm still only happy lynching secret agent.

[Kmd4390]

Then lets get this lynch on the road guys. The longer you take, the more i age like a fine gallon of milk. If you think i am scum then throw your votes at me like they are dollars and i am some kind of cheap exotic dancer.

Already did. Where's my lap dance?

[Kmd4390]

Really? What scum did you get lynched?

[Kmd4390]

Lil, if secret agent is town, the vig should only shoot if they are very sure they are shooting scum. If secret agent is scum, the vig should do whatever they damn please.

Garmr, my point is you can't claim you're the only one who has been right when you haven't pushed a scum lynch yet. Also, boring and I have yet to be proven wrong (or right for that matter) on any reads yet.

[Kmd4390]

Can i at least have the answers to why i am being lynch rather than people saying i am scummy and voting me?

I've got nothing new. See my ISO.

[Kmd4390]

Sweet

[Kmd4390]

Woah where'd my vote go? I've been voting secret agent since massclaim ended

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, don't town read me for not hammering guys. My vote was already there. Even ISO'd myself to be sure.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, I'm still kind of waking up so I forgot this was the game with the open setup so there's no vote theif or anything. Looks like my vote just got missed. There are multiple wrong vote counts since my vote. I didn't notice until Pine's post saying I didn't hammer.

[Kmd4390]

LUV, you're brilliant

I honestly thought you were the Cop slipping back there. In fact, I thought Pine was the Vig, and I expected to be dead today.

Who was the cop?

Nah, we all ruled ourselves out as vig before massclaim except one shot (you) and Lil and then you outted yourself as not rolecop so Lil was obv vig. Nn was obv role cop.

Good shooting Lil. I was probably between Pine and Boring, leaning Pine. Also hadn't completely ruled out Garmr. So I was going to be a mess coming into the next day.

[Kmd4390]

S/o to town for ballin out

There's a good chance we'd have lost if not for Lil shooting 2/3 scum.