STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't, I am speculating

He did, I think he is a scum vig or something.

Well if you are just basically empty spitballing to fluff your case on Fuzzy don't expect to get buy in ...

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Random
who also had a 3rd party win con that could hurt the town.

Again all I know is if there is one scum left ( educated guess) , if we lynch the pool I am pushing we will win......

Shiro
who do you plan on lynching tomorrow after I flip town

[Almost50]

@A50/RR - When Xk claimed his role to you guys did he claim it as an event or just a regular action? And Almost when you relayed the info did you specify which it was?

Xk almost gave me his role PM word for word. He had everything explained in details, and I relayed it as-is.

[Almost50]

So why is your vote still on me?

Because my mind, my gut and my PoE all tell me you're most likely red. I can't see it any other way.

Also, I have a huge problem with your defense. You seem too scared to die, albeit it being a good thing at this point to eliminate all suspicions. Myself and Fuzzy and even RR have all expressed will to go at this point. I think a Townie who believes there's only one scumster left should be alright eating rope or getting NK'd today/tonight just to give the confirmed players a clearer view.

[Almost50]

Let me try to sum up my views at this point. We have 3 confirmed Townies, so let's save us the effort and space on those.

TFL: is Town by virtue of his shot on farside while knowing I was going to check grapes. A stand-alone Scum!TFL doesn't want a clear on grapes for sure, and he certainly didn't need me (the one he was supposed to shoot) to Town read him, nor did he need RR (the one at the receiving end of Mastina/MoI attacks) on his side. As a scum of 2 alive they still didn't want a clear on grapes, unless grapes is his partner. Then again, that meant grapes had to forfeit the NK in order to get that clear, which still isn't a good move, but I'll consider it as if that was the only way of getting rid of farside.

So TFL can only be scum with grapes under certain assumptions. He can neither be scum with someone else nor can he be the lone scumster left.

P.S. No it could not have been someone else -other than grapes- that skipped their kill to put us in this situation. While skipping the NK does put grapes in the grey area it also puts TFL in a similar grey area to some. If a second kill had been submitted last night both TFL and grapes would have been confirmed today, and grapes could have been shot tonight instead of keeping TFL less than a 100% clear.

Now, Shiro: who cannot be the lonely scumster alive (or the game would have ended when we lynched S_S). He is either Town or a scumster of 2 alive. If we want to lynch Shiro we need to find the other one first.

RR: Drixx' analysis on SC doesn't come from a partner, but I'll only put this down as lead not evidence. A far stronger lead would be them knowing of Xk role details (and I know they did because I was the one filling them in). Still, the biggest point I can come up with now is the TWIE event which -allegedly- confirms grapes.

Now we all know how good the due of RR heads are (and @MAstina: I have played with Drixx alone, Cerb alone, Cerb in two other hydra's and both as RR), and we know if they are masterminding the scum team play then the TWIE event must've been discussed and well planned by them beforehand. Now either they expected TWIE to flip soon or they were hopeful he will go on far enough. Why the "Sky shot grapes"? If they didn't expect TWIE to flip it was to clear grapes (the one the are strongly pushing right now). If they expected TWIE to flip though it was to discredit the result, but why would you bus a partner only to put "uncertain shades" on someone, and especially so when that someone's role isn't even as dangerous to scum as others appear to be?

I think Scum!RR would have used that TWIE event more strategically than they did. I think Scum!RR would have avoided the trapping of Sky to begin with with their knowledge of Xk's role. I think Scum!RR would have found a way to manipulate my ability to their favour.

That leaves me and grapes, and I won't even try to make a case for myself. grapes I've said multiple times why he makes perfect sense as either the remaining lonely scum or one of two remaining in the game.

So, my vote remains on grapes and there's a chance the game ends with that particular lynch. If it still doesn't then we reassess the cases on both Shiro & RR (Shiro first to me). Avoiding a grapes doesn't solve anything and doesn't give us any more leads than we already have.

[grapes]

So seeing that information that leaves the lack of Nightkill yesterday to among the following –

1. Fuzzy is scum and can’t both Vig and Mafia kill the same Night.
2. the Mafia no-killed to frame Fuzzy.
3. the Mafia tried to take a shot at myself / Random despite the public announcement of our commute
4. the Mafia also killed farside.
5. Grapes is a Leftover who joined the Mafia and can’t make the faction kill and Shiro was bubbled overnight.

There is no real way that I can see to parse which of these is correct.

What does occams razor tell you?

I do think that I’m unlikely to think 1 is the case regardless. It has been established that Fuzzy has an additional Kill with the uncontested Fire kill. His choice of kill last Night if he was scum was completely suboptimal for having a chance to win the game from a Dayplay standpoint. He chose to go against Mastin and myself’s wishes when he had to know that not killing either RR or Almost could very well result in a lynch on him today. And clearly even if he has a partner they can’t make the kill themselves (which leaves only Grapes / Shiro as possibilities in my mind). So him choosing to side with RR / Almost in killing Farside does make sense from a general scum standpoint but doesn’t make sense from a survivalist standpoint.

So add Almost and Fuzzy to my “Not Lynching Today” pool. What leaves grapes / RR / Shiro.

Not this. I can tell you that much.

Whoever fuzzy shot last night was gonna get someone pissed. The logic that he took the most contested shot makes him town is of the wifom variety and with all respect to fuzzy he's a really cool dude, you're expecting too much foresight or not enough at the same time.





Can we circle back to our conversation in the hood for a minute. Does a plain old vig make sense here? Was Xk's role not essentially -- ally with someone -- kill that person under certain conditions?

We've already seen extra kills. The cluster killed like 3 people at the same time. And then the yume kill.
If the gems are to be trusted and can win with town. That's strong. Scum need a way to balance against that.

That's where the stress meter comes in. But also the extra firepower.

I'm not the setup/mod genius you are, but I know enough to know that the amount of slots who could never be mislynched in this game is too high for there to be only one scum left and that's the only threat.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the entire Crystal Gems faction could be endgamed even if were 5 players strong simply by scum killing all the Town players in this analysis. Why?

This is a good point. But you seem to now be in the 2 reds left club why?

He had no choice, farside was not mislynchable and I was bubbled. He had to kill farside because every other option was mislynchable. RR,Grapes,Almost.
None of them had mastin shouting that nobody should dare lynch them from the start of the game. You think he had any chance of ever lynching her over himself? Had he killed RR or grapes (Both lynch targets because of you and mastins shouting) He would be left closer in a pool of him getting death.

Thank god for shiro.

Like honestly guys if fuzzy's scum who else was he gonna kill? Why hasn't there been a scum kill in ages?

I feel like voting for myself right now bc town is bound and determine to self implode........ but

NO

If I have to I will drag the town toward a town victory kicking and screaming if necessary

Shiro
Actually Mastin would be a better kill since she is conftown.......No way I would of not taken out MOI or Random if I had the chance if I was scum .......

Scum play makes no sense at all....... why not kill conf town the other night when they had a chance......either they did not make a kill or was RB

The point is it was the best kill you could make that wouldn't confirmscum yourself.

Fuzzy I know you're smarter than this.

Where exactly did the idea that I'm a leftover come from?

Well perhaps here …

You are aligned with The Leftovers (Third Party). You are a Gem.

I can quote Varsoon too.

As a final note, all scum have guaranteed safe-claims and roles that fit the flavor of these fake-claims. Do not try to flavor-game this setup.
Scum all have had their flavor crafted before I crafted any of the town roles--I have built this setup around scum having effective, believable safe-claims.
Flavor-claims are not anywhere near the sort of town-clear that you might expect from other games.
Furthermore, I have given scum measures to punish players who are attempting to flavor-game the setup. Claim flavor at your own risk.
We are here to play mafia rendered under the flavor of Steven Universe--I will have no pity for anyone who takes the flavor as a means to attempt to outguess the moderator.

-

Xk specifically started the game as a 3rd party role. He chose to join the Crystal Gems after Day 2.

Speaking of which, wasn't that role heavily redacted with a faux win condition to boot. : p

Xk almost gave me his role PM word for word. He had everything explained in details, and I relayed it as-is.

Okay.

Because my mind, my gut and my PoE all tell me you're most likely red. I can't see it any other way.

Also, I have a huge problem with your defense. You seem too scared to die, albeit it being a good thing at this point to eliminate all suspicions. Myself and Fuzzy and even RR have all expressed will to go at this point. I think a Townie who believes there's only one scumster left should be alright eating rope or getting NK'd today/tonight just to give the confirmed players a clearer view.

It's not my defense that's the problem. I've proven why you're wrong and not reading the game and now all your left with is gut. Hear me out and work with me a little.

Why's fuzzy town to you?

TFL: is Town by virtue of his shot on farside while knowing I was going to check grapes. A stand-alone Scum!TFL doesn't want a clear on grapes for sure, and he certainly didn't need me (the one he was supposed to shoot) to Town read him, nor did he need RR (the one at the receiving end of Mastina/MoI attacks) on his side. As a scum of 2 alive they still didn't want a clear on grapes, unless grapes is his partner. Then again, that meant grapes had to forfeit the NK in order to get that clear, which still isn't a good move, but I'll consider it as if that was the only way of getting rid of farside.

Ugh. Let's think about this a minute almost. We've been breathing down fuzzy's neck to produce a body.

He can't shoot mastin that's a scumclaim.
Can't shoot the gems.
His options are you, me, rr and farside. Scum have 3rd party paranoia as well maybe that factored into it. Farside was only really getting pushed by one person (rr) also in the lynchpool. Your opinion matters a lot less when you're in the lynchpool take it from me.

Who was talking about lynching grapes yesterday, at least as a top option? Name one person. If fuzzy's scum he had to make a move.

RR: Drixx' analysis on SC doesn't come from a partner, but I'll only put this down as lead not evidence. A far stronger lead would be them knowing of Xk role details (and I know they did because I was the one filling them in). Still, the biggest point I can come up with now is the TWIE event which -allegedly- confirms grapes.

Show a little respect to RR I think if they're scum cakes had enough heat that their analysis of them is almost a play they had to make.
Furthermore that's one post.
Look at the entirety of my day 1. :/

I'm not even sure that it's RR anymore for what it's worth. Like if you want to talk about interactions that

look

like scum/scum interaction RR and I both have it off better than fuzzy with regards to cakes.

For instance stuff like this:

Unvote
Vote: McMenno

McMenno vs SirCakez, I prefer McMenno.
Mastin, why do you think McMenno is town? I am really interested.

When I have more time, I will iso Not Chara. They have posted an awful lot so it's hard for me to get a lock; I want to delve deep into their mind and play to get the understanding I want.

Is really really really blatantly terrible.

And then fuzzy's VERY FIRST PUSH:

Why are we voting for an empty spot? Can Someone explain why we are voting an empty spot?????I kinda expected more from Mastin.

vote Ob1

I cant quite explain it ...... but there just something off about this hydra, The interaction with SC seems a bit off. Maybe I am reading into OB1 posts to much but my guts is telling me this is a good vote,

OB1 can you explain why me and Twin are scum. This seems random.

What's odd about obi's interactions with cakes outside the fact that they basically fit him for rope.


Other stuff. Fuzzy's blatant disregard for me trying to talk about who to vote for beachapalooza when we allied.
Specifically brought that up. HE CLAIMED TO NOT VOTE FOR BEACHAPOLOOZA EVEN THOUGH WE TALKED ABOUT VOTING TITUS IN OUR HOOD.

HE PUSHED SKYBIRD AS CONFIRMED TOWN OVER MASTIN AND YUME.

When did this dawn on me you ask?

Just a quick iso refresh on fuzzy after he *clears throat*

"FORGOT" HE DIDN'T HAVE SHOTS LEFT UM HELLO THAT ISN'T A THING YOU FUCKING FORGET.
He's scum who knows he can't afford to shoot in the pool anymore.

WHOOOOOOOOOSH

[grapes]

@random

- You were right I was wrong man. I'm sorry I suck at this game.

@RR

- Whatever the reason was you're townreading fuzzy isn't very good I tried to talk to you about this like 4 phases ago let's talk why's your vote still on me?

@Mastin

- Fuzzy's the play.

[Shiro]

Btw other than the fact that he needed mastin to push through RR, I still think nobody should discard the idea that Mastin might be 3rd party leftover thus not even needed to be killed/mislynched from scum PoV. Thus making her possibly an unoptimal kill unless certain she needs death.

[Shiro]

Like seriously had he killed anyone but farside today he would be in a 1v1 with grapes for the lynch. It was the best out of bad options.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So I’ve taken some time to think things over and here’s where I am.

None of myself, mastin, random, Almost or Fuzzy is getting lynched today. That leaves RR / Shiro / Grapes as possible lynches.

A huge part of the uncertainty in the game at this point rests on whether we have only 1 scum left or 2.

2 scum requires Grapes to be scum as Lapis the Leftover who could join scum. That much I am comfortable with as a conclusion. And means that the pool of partners is pretty narrow in my mind – Shiro or Fuzzy being the candidates that make sense.

1 scum remaining rules out Shiro 100% as scum.

Frankly form a utility standpoint I’ve made up my mind that Grapes is the best lynch today for the information it gives us on whether Shiro is absolutely clear or a possible lynch target tomorrow . Grapes flipping Leftover aligned with Mafia gives two likely scum candidates. Grapes flipping Leftover not aligned with the Mafia gives us a fourth confirmed Town in Shiro. Both of these give us sufficient breathing room to win the game unless scum have another multi-kill power available.

VOTE: Grapes

--

So TFL can only be scum with grapes under certain assumptions. He can neither be scum with someone else nor can he be the lone scumster left.

No Fuzzy could still be sole remaining scum. I wanted to push Shiro on his logic to see if he had a source he’d be willing to give. But I agree that he couldn’t both Vig and Mafia Nightkill at the same Night as I can’t Bubble and use any other abilities or Events in the same Night.

--

Can we circle back to our conversation in the hood for a minute. Does a plain old vig make sense here? Was Xk's role not essentially -- ally with someone -- kill that person under certain conditions?

I limited shot Vig (max 3 shots over 8 Day / Night cycles) isn’t outrageous. And I don’t see it as strongly conflicting with XK since Xk’s was a 1 Shot Event.

We've already seen extra kills. The cluster killed like 3 people at the same time. And then the yume kill.
If the gems are to be trusted and can win with town. That's strong. Scum need a way to balance against that.

Um I don’t see the point here as the Cluster killing 2 players and the Yume unblockable kill were both scum events that are answers to how the scum can counter the games. Hell they took out 2 gems with those events.

I can quote Varsoon too.

Good for you. Unfortunately that post is irrelevant to the argument that you are a Leftover. Xk did not have a Mod provide fake-claim. I doubt Lapis does either since flavor wise she isn’t obv-scum like the Rubies or Jasper. She would be the flip-side of the coin who could join with the Mafia (via Jasper) if she chose. No reason you MUST join the scum team is my guess.

Speaking of which, wasn't that role heavily redacted with a faux win condition to boot. : p

And this response is why I have not qualms about lynching you. I saw directly the original role PM with full wincon and everything. Trying to pass off as “You can’t know” is bad.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

if I was scum
I would of fake shot Shadow and claimed I failed..there is no reason to not claim I shot shadow........ why claim I didn't shoot at all.
I would of NK MOI by now
I would of NK Mastin last night

There no way I am scum but if you want to mislynch me today than fine

You never answered my question of who you would lynch tomorrow after I flipped Towm

[grapes]

Why are you all living in this fairytale world where there's two scum left and that I have to be scum because you think you can mod-game the flavor?

Where the fuck was this the last 3 phases.

Why did you bubble shiro when you did if you thought there was a leftover traitor?

When exactly do you think I aligned with scum? I've never stopped pushing lynches on reds.

[grapes]

Like nothing manga just said makes any sense at all.

[grapes]

A huge part of the uncertainty in the game at this point rests on whether we have only 1 scum left or 2.

There's only uncertainty because you're trying to mislynch me based on fucking flavor.

Just because there's a "leftovers" faction doesn't fucking mean that necessitates there being more than one.

That's ignorant.

[grapes]

And this response is why I have not qualms about lynching you. I saw directly the original role PM with full wincon and everything. Trying to pass off as “You can’t know” is bad.

I was being fucking cheeky.

I didn't see the role pm myself.

What is even going on right now.

[grapes]

I limited shot Vig (max 3 shots over 8 Day / Night cycles) isn’t outrageous. And I don’t see it as strongly conflicting with XK since Xk’s was a 1 Shot Event.

Fuzzy's was also a a 1-shot event right?

[grapes]

Um I don’t see the point here as the Cluster killing 2 players and the Yume unblockable kill were both scum events that are answers to how the scum can counter the games. Hell they took out 2 gems with those events.

Point being you don't want to lynch fuzzy literally because he took a bad shot and that he claimed on unclaimed kill in a game where scum dropped 3 people at once.

Like I said a while ago that's not a very great reason to write him off.

[grapes]

Why do I even try.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Grapes

No I have a shot each season and I get refilled during the season finale

[grapes]

There has been some bad mislynches this game.
I've been on some of them.
But holy smokes.

[grapes]

Now it's a "utility lynch"

What happens when I flip town magna who's your fairytale fucking leftover role then?

[grapes]

Fuzzy is obvscum.

[grapes]

You're lynching me, purely on role and flavor spec, over blatant obvscum.

Town deserves to lose.

[grapes]

Good for you. Unfortunately that post is irrelevant to the argument that you are a Leftover

It's perfectly fucking relevant.

Mod has confirmed that there were measures put in the game to

hurt

town for trying to game flavor.
You're push on me is strictly flavor bullshit that you pulled out your ass after reading the SU wiki for 5 minutes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Now it's a "utility lynch"

What happens when I flip town magna who's your fairytale fucking leftover role then?

Yup. If you bothered to read then your flip as Town makes me assured that we only have 1 scum remaining.

Frankly if you are Town at this point all this flailing around doesn't make much sense. You being confirmed Town narrows down the lynch pool to two players which means Town is overwhelmingly likely to win. Yet you act as if the sky is fucking falling.