STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

It takes 5 votes to lynch and Grapes had 5 votes and wasn't lynched. He posted a bunch as if he were lynched. How could he possibly not be lynched and not know it?

I can think of a couple reasons why he might not be lynched, but neither would be something he didn't know.

@Grapes: Care to enlighten us?

~Drixx

[TheFuzzylogic99]

@MOI
Given hoe poorly the scum have played...and has failed to make a NK for several days I pretty sure you will

[Shiro]

I honestly expected Vasoon to come back online and confirm lynch........Okay this means it is going to take 6 to lynch today. Not sure if this is some weird power Grapes has or if this is general thing among players


Shiro
I am honestly trying to follow your logic and its even confusing to me......... You say that I didn't kill the gems before bc it would narrow down the POE poll and leave me in danger of being lynched but now you say I desperately trying to. Huh....Really.I am confused. Okay what is your opinion on my possibilities list,,,,,would you confirm that its likely one of the possibilities listed?

Shadow used to be alive, back then you had no need for it. You two could endgame but the event that prevented scum using actions plus his lynch set you back and put you in the current position.

@MoI Fair enough, we cannot both die.

Should I vote grapes now or wait for his to explain the him not being lynched.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Shiro

you should wait........

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Shiro except none of my actions make sense as scum

-
- shooting Far whan I could of vigged anyone else......especially players the town the scum reading
- saving Snarky for being lynched in the event
- not voting in the beach event
- CC shadow vig ability when I could of just scum read and lynched him
- being on every scum wagon except SC
- being on Shadows and DGB wagon while the town was mislynching
- coming up with conspiracies about the Gem having scum when as scum I could just viged them

[mastin2]

So you think it's acceptable to make homophobic slurs in a game?

Interesting you'd consider that a slur when it pretty clearly isn't one.

Also,

My opinion of you just dropped like an anvil.

With all of the times you have said this phrase, that anvil must be at the core of the earth by now.

Specious and bullshit argument since we were onto SC early and in particular I spent time forcing him to interact and then got him to basically word spew shit his pants when I said he had waved the white flag.

I've already detailed exactly why your SC push means jackshit.

Furthermore, I had my eyes on TWIE before anyone else in the game. I believe as early as day 3 I was making a note (I believe to A50) to watch and see if TWIE pounced and engaged and to go after him hard if he didn't by a certain deadline. That's not even in question.

Actually, weren't you the one saying, "Hey, if TWIE doesn't do something by D5, he's probably scum", specifically asking for us to

wait

until that day?

Oh yeah you were. You weren't telling us to look at TWIE. Quite the opposite, you were telling us to let TWIE live longer. I'd rather not be forced to go through your iso to find the quotes proving this, but if you're honest, you'll flat-out admit this to be true and if you go and lie and claim it isn't, I WILL go and pull those quotes up. I'd just rather you fess up yourself and save me the effort.

So,

You can't just make shit up because people can go look, even in a game approaching 12,000 posts.

My thoughts exactly!

The definition of a trust tell is using confirmable self-meta for gain.

Yes. And you were upset because you felt grapes was using a trust tell.

The problem with that is...if grapes was using a trust tell, by definition, he would be town.
If grapes wasn't town, then he wasn't using a trust tell.

That you thought he was using a trust tell is a scumclaim because trust tells of this nature can only be utilized by town, and REGARDLESS OF THE TRUTH OR FALSEHOOD OF THE CLAIM OF IT BEING A TRUST TELL, the important thing here is that you

thought

it was a trust tell, and that's where the scumclaim lies.

[mastin2]

like how RR is both trying to buddy me and throw me under the bus at the same time........

Gee, I wonder what that says about their alignment?

[mastin2]

1. Fuzzy is scum and can’t both Vig and Mafia kill the same Night.
2. the Mafia no-killed to frame Fuzzy.
3. the Mafia tried to take a shot at myself / Random despite the public announcement of our commute
4. the Mafia also killed farside.
5. Grapes is a Leftover who joined the Mafia and can’t make the faction kill and Shiro was bubbled overnight.

There is no real way that I can see to parse which of these is correct.

Here, I'll help.

You are assuming Almost50 is town--safe assumption.

If you assume Almost50's result is correct, grapes took no action last night.
This either rules out #3, or indicates that someone outside of grapes did so.
This also either rules out #4, or indicates that someone outside of grapes and Fuzzy did so. (Fuzzy had no reason to double-kill farside.)
Ergo, the options are 1, 2, 5, or 3/4 with the killer almost assuredly being outside Almost50/grapes/Fuzzy. (AKA...Reasonably Rational.)

If you are willing to assume Fuzzy is town--and the kill pattern to me suggests so--then you can safely rule out number 1.
If you are willing to assume the idea of grapes being a leftover who joined the mafia is absurd (which I do), then you can safely rule out number five.

Which leaves you with...
-Mafia no-killed to frame Fuzzy (no duh)
-Mafia killed farside (gee wonder who is possible for this)
-Mafia tried to kill the commuted gems.

Of note: RR, if the factional kill counts as enhanced (which it apparently does), WOULD have incentive to try and shoot at a gem I suppose. Because when running into a question of "enhanced kill priority" vs "commuting", it might not be clear who wins. (Though I'm pretty sure commute > enhanced kill. This is a question YOU should be asking to Varsoon, MoI.)

So add Almost and Fuzzy to my “Not Lynching Today” pool. What leaves grapes / RR / Shiro.

Shiro is ruled out unless you buy into the two scum left bullshit. grapes can only be scum by using that model. So what you're effectively saying is: Lynch RR.

I get that you are pushing this so hard because you want the logic to extend to yourself also but the big hole in this theory is that Skybird having less suspicion means that the odds of XK trying to kill him as opposed to Shadow are much lower, right? I had to convince Xk to fire that ability on Skybird in the Gems PT. It certainly wasn’t a certainty which makes it not outside the realm of possibility that Skybird thought they could save their partner by substituting themselves with Shadow’s slot in the alliance even if they did know of the power.

Likewise there are reasons outside “Preventing Xk from maybe using an ability on non-so-suspected Skybird” that scum would decide to kill Yume when they did and your constant “why would scum do that” looks like you are handwaving those possibilities. I also don’t like that you keep harping on the “I can make sure that my hammer vote prevents escape of scum” ability as confirming you as Town now that we have confirmation that farside was Town.

^This.

Also, food for thought: RR has been wrong on the gems. RR has been wrong on farside. RR is wrong on grapes.
...What exactly has Reasonably Rational been

right

about?

Damn right I'm putting some burden of proficiency on them.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that the entire Crystal Gems faction could be endgamed even if were 5 players strong simply by scum killing all the Town players in this analysis. Why?

Because RR is scum, that's why.

Also, our plan that I spent two days pushing was to lynch Farside and have you shoot Shadow

Also you understand that this sort of statement makes me want to insta-vote you, correct? Because that is the definition of a scum-beneficial plan and no amount of “I’m justified in my paranoia” makes that fact go away.

So why the fuck aren't you?!?

Yeah that's not what you said so stop fucking pretending it was. You multiple times warned of a THIRD PARTY ENDGAME happening. You MULTIPLE TIMES told us, "farside's role will allow her to endgame everyone alive by allowing her to reach the points needed". This was the appeal to fear you were using.
Not once. Not ONCE. Did you use "in mylo she'll achieve her win and scum will endgame". Which is still an appeal to fear by the way. Just not the one you were employing. Inconsistency, and still doesn't change the original problem even if not

Actually I want to see RR’s response to this.

So do I. I want answers to most of my points, yet people seem to be picking and choosing which to respond to, hoping that I will forget the stronger points I made that were left unanswered. (Which to be fair: is a pretty damn probable occurrence.)

But it is worth noting that what Grapes said was no-where near a Trust tell.

Yes, it was nowhere near a trust tell. But the important thing to note is that RR THOUGHT it was a trust tell. And therein lies the scumclaim from Reasonably Rational.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Mastin

- answer me this one question then regarding RR ...

RR had access as scum to a free "Kill anyone" Mafia kill last Night. This I have confirmed with the Mod.

Why does last scum RR not use it to kill you who is the biggest thorn in her side? Why does they not use it to kill myself or Random who are confirmed Gems?

Why do they fail to shoot when doing so just means PoE will bite them in the ass regardless?

[mastin2]

@mastin im a gut player. I can't do a great job of explaining why I townread RR. But I do

Oh yeah and guess what?
I have a gut scumread on RR, and a gut townread on grapes.
What say you to that?

...

Yeah. "Gut?" doesn't answer basic fucking questions.
I asked you where Reasonably Rational's direction has led the town--you could answer that. You haven't.
I told you that effort from RR is a nulltell--no acknowledgment there.
I asked you where the evidence for their alleged genuine interest in gamesolving was--you could answer that. You haven't.
I asked you to describe what in my arguments was BS--you haven't. You just said "because gut" to why.

That, just stuff addressed to

you specifically

. Which you should have literally no trouble showing. I didn't ask for you to show me why RR was town to you. I didn't ask for reasons justifying your read. (Okay I kind-of indirectly did, but that was to the whole town not you specifically.) I asked you specific questions that "gut?" doesn't answer. I asked you questions which "I'm a gut player" doesn't give a response to.

Gut justifies jackshit.

It's true. I have a gut townread on grapes and a gut scumread on RR. I said it above in a somewhat-sarcastic tone, but it remains true. You don't see me relying on that gut, though, now, do you? You see me continuing to press reason after reason for why RR is scum, and reason after reason for why grapes isn't!

So FUCK your gut and start giving some logic.
Because gut aint gonna cut it.

[mastin2]

I think Scum!RR would have used that TWIE event more strategically than they did.

Except they did?

There were players (maybe including myself) bringing up TWIE for literally DAYS. And Reasonably Rational, who at the time was solidly in the townbloc, kept dismissing those concerns, telling us, "Let's save analyzing TWIE for later. Let's let him live for now. TWIE is a lategame player. We can judge him better later than now. Let's wait until D6 to even think about lynching him. Sure, TWIE hasn't done anything yet, but let's give him that time anyway."

You remember that, right?

I sure as hell do.

[mastin2]

@Mastin

- Fuzzy's the play.

No.

This is my game right now.

I'm not going to lose it because--I'll borrow a phrase I believe Titus uses, though it could be Mathblade's or even Klingoncelt's--of pants-on-head play.

Fuzzy is not the correct play.

It's really just RR.

[mastin2]

Btw other than the fact that he needed mastin to push through RR, I still think nobody should discard the idea that Mastin might be 3rd party leftover thus not even needed to be killed/mislynched from scum PoV. Thus making her possibly an unoptimal kill unless certain she needs death.

There are multiple ways I can prove this false btw. (In hindsight, the alliance thingy I did would've been best for tonight, with the thingy I have planned for tonight done earlier, that way I could just ask a particular player to 100% confirm beyond any shadow of a doubt I'm telling the truth.) I am town. Pure town. Not leftover town. FUCK the idea of leftovers left in the game. This shit is the sort of thing which is causing people to try and mislynch grapes. It's simple. One mafia. Two gems. The rest town.

[mastin2]

wait is this not a lynch?????
I am confused

Oh yeah.

I uh.

Kinda forgot about my own ability.

Whoops.

Well this would be a good time to mention it, since scum already knew about it thanks to allying with me. (Shadow_step.)

My ally power?
The mystical power I tried to keep scum from learning about/exploiting?
The power which doesn't work in lylo but works at all other times?

When I'm allied with someone, in exchange for not having an alliance PT, we take two extra votes to lynch.
And guess what.
That means it'll take seven of eight players to lynch grapes.

You are NEVER getting me to vote grapes. And presumably, grapes won't self-vote either.

So lynching grapes today is literally impossible.

Bitch. Moan. Complain. Whine all you want about that fact.
It's not changing my choice.

So yes.
You have the power of deciding what we do today.
Lynch RR.
Lynch some other player for whatever fucking bullshit reason you decide.
Or no lynch.

A lynch on grapes, however, won't happen.

[Randomnamechange]

vla until 27th

[mastin2]

@Mastin

- answer me this one question then regarding RR ...
RR had access as scum to a free "Kill anyone" Mafia kill last Night. This I have confirmed with the Mod.
Why does last scum RR not use it to kill you who is the biggest thorn in her side? Why does they not use it to kill myself or Random who are confirmed Gems?
Why do they fail to shoot when doing so just means PoE will bite them in the ass regardless?

Why not kill you?
Two possibilities--one, the kill on you would fail, if commute > enhanced kill. (Remember, Fuzzy explicitly confirmed that an enhanced kill will still fail against an ability which has superior priority. Basically, enhanced kill != unblockable kill. The only unblockable kill is a slice-of-life kill.)
Two, RR shooting you literally fucking confirms: "Oh hey grapes isn't scum, it MUST be one of the players who has access to the enhanced kill". Those players being Almost50/RR/Fuzzy. With one of you dead, it's seven alive with three suspects. Squirm all they like, that's an autolose no matter what. This,

aside from

how having a second kill the night Fuzzy kills would be considered confirming for Fuzzy (thus, rendering Fuzzy as conftown), narrowing it down EVEN FURTHER to Almost50/RR...and in that pool, Almost50 is unlikely for the very reasons you yourself earlier outlined. Ergo, had a scum!RR successfully shot you last night...it would be game over for them today.

Why not kill me?
Simple--RR knew about Almost50's investigation on grapes.
RR knew that if there were two kills last night, Fuzzy would be treated as confirmed town.

Do you deny either of these?

If not, the reason Reasonably Rational doesn't kill me last night is really fucking obvious: killing me would confirm grapes as town, AND confirm Fuzzy as town, leaving...
...Once again, a lynch pool consisting of Almost50/RR. With seven alive.

Instaloss.

It's really not that hard to grasp.
This is basic math.

RR had the most reason of any player to no kill last night, because ANY kill RR would make would confirm them as scum.

And you say that POE bites them in the ass right now--no, it doesn't. We have eight alive. Four of them are suspects. We can't lynch all four.
This is because of the farside kill rather than killing one of the four.
And the two who orchestrated this were...Almost50 (who you feel is town), and Reasonably Rational (who you have pointed out bundleloads of reasons for being scum).

In short, RR made the ONLY play which WOULDN'T leave them in a POE loss.
I laid this all out before.

[Reasonably Rational]

That's a stretch, even for you Mastin. You know how I am about ethics and mafia. Also, if you had bothered to go look at the game I modded that got ruined by almost exactly the same statement, you'll see it was a town player (House) who made a huge stink about it and eventually ruined the game and earned a ban for it. We're town, and I have the right to tell someone that they are wading into unsound ethical waters. The only reason the statement "I never bus" presented for gain (and it's the using it for gain part that makes it an offense, btw) isn't a trust tell is because it's referring to a LACK of action. Just because he claims to have never bussed (which may or may not be true, but let's assume it's true) does not mean he didn't choose to bus in this game. It doesn't logically follow. That's the only reason the Listmods didn't action the player in my game, in fact. It was a close call.

Shame on you for using the fact that I had a game ruined by a similar statement and the ensuing TvT fight that spilled into ANOTHER game and ended up compromising my game to the point where it had to be ended and trying to say that me bristling at seeing the same shit happen makes me scum. It is NAI for me. Regardless of my alignment, I say something when people violate (or wander dangerously close to the line) the site rules. And you know that because we've played together a lot, and you've seen me call people out for crossing lines a lot. Accuse me of angleshooting again and it's going to get ugly. I'm done taking personal attacks from you.

The fact that you are having to warp things way out of what they really are to try and make a case against us speaks for itself, frankly.

Another example of you twisting shit to try and make a case that just isn't there: my read and instructions about TWIE. You know as well as anyone else who has played with TWIE before that he has a low profile playstyle early. As town he jumps in and starts using the accumulated information to push people on contradictions and such in the mid game. I personally gave the "if he doesn't start engaging and making pushes by day X (it was 5 or 6)" as part of reads given to be passed along in case we died going into the first season finale, because we had our main ability outed. Nobody was going after TWIE on day 3 when I put those reads in the alliance for A50 to pass along. There's not even any plausible scum motive there because he just wasn't being suspected or pushed at that time. Prior experience with him across several games made me aware of how to sort him, and look ... he didn't engage and tried to lurk and use his event to get out of the noose. It's exactly what I predicted a scum!TWIE would behave.

But you're so desperate you'll twist anything it seems.

Like saying we were wrong about the gems. Say what? We were the first people (outside of the gems obviously) to realize that there was a third faction in the game. You didn't even catch on and in fact I am pretty sure you told us we were wrong when we told the game about it. We were also right that they were lying about their win condition. I was also personally right about what their win condition was (you can confirm in our hydra PT after the game) when I said there was exactly one win condition I could think of that would justify the lie, and you can go back and look: I told them NOT to explicitly out that win condition. MoI did so in what seemed to be an emotionally driven post. So contrary to your assertion that we were wrong about the gems ... we were, in fact, right about them every step of the way. Not only that, your assertion that we've been trying to undermine the gems all game is flat out false.

They were lying about their win condition, clearly. That's reason for concern to any rational agent. Varsoon went

way out of his way

to warn us not to try and break the game by flavor, so early in the game when there's a whole faction of third party who are lying, that's reason to be concerned. The problem with your theory is that literally from the moment MoI made that emotional post and outed the fact that they lose if scum take out all of us aligned with Earth, we've been working with them and the only negative thing said was me telling MoI he should have never revealed that info.

You're so wrong and off it hurts. I really don't care to spend my entire day dismantling your bullshit, so how about you deass your head and help us finish off this win. It's fucking offensive the shit you're saying and the way you're twisting shit to try and make it fit your absurd theory that we're somehow simultaneously masterminds who also happen to be complete fucking idiots.

~Drixx

P.S. - I'm sorry but no matter how you spin it, someone talking about someone else performing homosexual acts is inappropriate. In this case, it was clearly derogatory. I would expect you, of all people, to be on my side when it comes to saying that kind of shit has no place in a mafia game. Want to talk about that sort of thing in the speakeasy? Cool. Want to use it as an attack in a mafia game? Not cool. That fact alone should clue you in to how irrational you are being. You're acting and speaking against your own beliefs. Stop it and get your head in the game. If you want to talk any more about whether or not it's okay to say someone is giving homosexual sex favors to another player as an attack, save it for the appropriate time (after the game) and place (speakeasy or MD).


P-edit - The fact that you refuse to even consider the rational case on Grapes AND refuse to consider the things Grapes himself said is staggering. Who are you and what the fuck have you done with Mastin?

[mastin2]

So, thank you whoever suggested me allying with grapes. You have yourself to blame for grapes being unlynchable today.
If we don't lynch RR today, then I'm going to ally with grapes again.
If we lynch RR today and the game doesn't end--fine. I'll relent. I'll ally with whoever you choose to. Because if RR is lynched today and the game doesn't end, obviously I was wrong on something so yes I'll submit to your terms and conditions.
If we don't lynch RR today, tough. I'll submit grapes again and grapes will presumably submit me.

Basically:
-Lynch RR, game ends: yay us. We win.
-Lynch RR, game doesn't end: I'll do whatever the fuck you ask me to. Even lynch grapes tomorrow if you ask it of me.
-Lynch someone else/nobody: I'm allying with grapes again.

This, because of my confidence it really fucking is just Reasonably Rational. I'll continue protecting grapes until RR is dead. I realize that's potentially holding the game hostage. But as far as I'm concerned: the 'case' against grapes is utter bullshit. So I'm going to protect grapes until either RR is dead, or I am.

[Reasonably Rational]

Mastin ... you realize that we arrived on Grapes by PoE. Cerb said he's working on a post to address your (frankly terrible) response to being asked to put your mod hat on and evaluate what we know about the game so you would see why we assumed Farside was a threat once she refused to take the offered plan to get her the win she claimed, and then backpedaled and started lying. I would say that those aren't the actions of a town player, except somehow she flipped town. I can point out the math if you can't see for yourself, but she could easily have had 20 points and exited the game yesterday. If you say you don't see a clear shift in how we were interacting with her before and after that offer, you're a fucking liar.

As for Grapes; he's not the only suspect but is the one that makes the most sense to us in the current game state. You should read what he had to say because even though we started the wagon on him, he managed to realize we're town.

The only "pants on head" play going on right now is coming from your slot.

~Drixx

[mastin2]

Who are you and what the fuck have you done with Mastin?

The name's mastina.

And I've made it clear.

grapes is not getting lynched while both you and I are alive.

If you are so sure grapes is scum.

Then die for your belief.

Almost50 is willing to die for his beliefs. (Though, I find it ironic he didn't realize grapes couldn't be lynched since he knew of this ability.)
Fuzzy is willing to die for his beliefs.

If you are so certain grapes is scum.
Then leave a case for it, and let your death without the game ending do all the speaking in the world.
Your death, with the game not ending, proves that there is at least one scum alive in Almost50/grapes/Fuzzy.
If you feel that it is necessary, make a case against grapes.
And if you feel there could be a second scum aside from grapes!
Leave a case for who that second scum is, and why they are scum.

But I'm planting my foot down. grapes cannot be lynched today. And I WILL ally with grapes again if you worm your way out of the noose. (Fuck, that'd actually be beneficial in a way. My power doesn't work in lylo situations, which includes mylo. With a death tonight, and a lynch today, tomorrow would be 6 alive--and if my power was proven to work even with 6 alive, that means it's not mylo.)

If you are town: I am wrong. Your death alone proves I am wrong, of course. The game wouldn't end after your lynch. So that would do the speaking for you...but you can always spend time pre-lynch typing out what the plan should be post-RR lynch. If you are town, spend time doing that. Spend time outlying EXACTLY what should, and should not, be done. Spend time outlying who is, and is not, scum. Spend time leaving a plan to be followed.

Fuck, if you're town I've run out of plans. So I'd be likely to follow your plan to the fucking letter. If you are town, then I've got nothing left to offer the game. So if you are town, I will listen to you after you are dead. But not one moment before.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This, because of my confidence it really fucking is just Reasonably Rational. I'll continue protecting grapes until RR is dead. I realize that's potentially holding the game hostage. But as far as I'm concerned: the 'case' against grapes is utter bullshit. So I'm going to protect grapes until either RR is dead, or I am.

I think the following gif will explain my thoughts upon reading Mastin's latest posts ...



I'm done. I'm going on vacation to Hawaii over the holiday and frankly will enjoy only having phone access. Because I get the strong feeling this is yet another "grand plan" that is going to fucking blow up in everyone's face. Yup ... that's exactly what I am saying.

Congrats Mastin. Regardless what happens expect no buy in from me on whatever you want to sell for the rest of the game. Because you holding the fucking game hostage is so stupid I can't trust you to make a good move from here on out. So I guess instead of working together I'll have to do what I can independent of you and your ego trip.

MOD - I'm basically V/LA from now to Jan 2. I will check in via phone and meet activity requirements but don't expect large in depth posts till after the first of the year.

[mastin2]

(Just for the lulz, went and checked: it was farside who suggested I ally with grapes. MoI gave his stamp of approval for that, too. Almost50, like me, probably forgot about my alliance power, though he's probably gonna feel mighty stupid when he realizes what just happened.)

[mastin2]

Because I get the strong feeling this is yet another "grand plan" that is going to fucking blow up in everyone's face.

It's not much of a grand plan.

It's a natural consequence of you allowing me to ally with grapes, not knowing what my power was, and now that it has been revealed, being unable to stop me from delivering that ultimatum.

RR dies, game ends: we win, congratulations.
RR dies, game continues:

I have no more plans and will follow yours

.
You select somebody else or nobody to die: I ally with grapes again and grapes continues to be unable to be touched tomorrow. (Unless tomorrow is mylo, which my power will inform me of.)

It is a simple planting-foot-down read. You won't convince me to vote grapes. So lynching grapes is impossible. I leave it up to you what to do given that knowledge. But I'm telling you that unless my RR scumread is proven wrong, I'm not relenting from this grapes defense.

It's a single day plan. A single day action. I will deal with the consequences of my choice. If you want grapes gone, you have to get rid of RR first. If you want someone else gone, fine, just know that grapes lives by that choice.

I have no other moves to make. Just this one. If I am proven wrong on RR--you won't see me make so much as a single iota of effort. I will sheep. Promise you. I will. No rebellion. No resistance! I will do as I am told. Exactly as I am told. (So convey your instructions as you would to a child, step by step to make sure I don't fuck it up.) I will not deviate. I will not diverge. I will follow your plan. Your strategy. Exactly as you lay it out.

If I am wrong on RR. I deserve nothing less than doing exactly that. And so I shall do exactly that.

If I'm

not

wrong on RR, though? If I'm not wrong on RR, then guess fucking what?

We win the fucking game.

So go ahead. Tell me what you're planning to do. Tell me what you want me to do if RR flips town. I'll follow it. I'll voice any concern I'll have, but I'll follow it regardless of whether you address the concern or not. If. RR flips town. I have no need to sell you on anything else in the game. I will follow, BLINDLY FOLLOW, you if I am wrong on RR. That simple! No strings attached. No agenda. No questions asked. (Okay so I'll ask questions but I won't let those questions stop me from following.)

If I'm right, though, no need for anything. Because the game ends right then and there.

It's a really simple right/wrong choice. A really simple right/wrong gambit. If I am right, the game ends. If I am wrong, the game continues and I will no longer influence it. That's a promise--absolute fucking

promise

on my part. I won't interfere. I won't intervene. I will do exactly as asked of me if I am wrong. That simple.

[Reasonably Rational]

Who are you and what the fuck have you done with Mastin?

The name's mastina.

And I've made it clear.

grapes is not getting lynched while both you and I are alive.

If you are so sure grapes is scum.

Then die for your belief.

Almost50 is willing to die for his beliefs. (Though, I find it ironic he didn't realize grapes couldn't be lynched since he knew of this ability.)
Fuzzy is willing to die for his beliefs.

If you are so certain grapes is scum.
Then leave a case for it, and let your death without the game ending do all the speaking in the world.
Your death, with the game not ending, proves that there is at least one scum alive in Almost50/grapes/Fuzzy.
If you feel that it is necessary, make a case against grapes.
And if you feel there could be a second scum aside from grapes!
Leave a case for who that second scum is, and why they are scum.

But I'm planting my foot down. grapes cannot be lynched today. And I WILL ally with grapes again if you worm your way out of the noose. (Fuck, that'd actually be beneficial in a way. My power doesn't work in lylo situations, which includes mylo. With a death tonight, and a lynch today, tomorrow would be 6 alive--and if my power was proven to work even with 6 alive, that means it's not mylo.)

If you are town: I am wrong. Your death alone proves I am wrong, of course. The game wouldn't end after your lynch. So that would do the speaking for you...but you can always spend time pre-lynch typing out what the plan should be post-RR lynch. If you are town, spend time doing that. Spend time outlying EXACTLY what should, and should not, be done. Spend time outlying who is, and is not, scum. Spend time leaving a plan to be followed.

Fuck, if you're town I've run out of plans. So I'd be likely to follow your plan to the fucking letter. If you are town, then I've got nothing left to offer the game. So if you are town, I will listen to you after you are dead. But not one moment before.

You have nothing left to offer the game then, by your own admission. We're town. We, in fact, asked fuzzy to shoot us if he had any doubts and left both Fuzzy and A50 with instructions on how to proceed if he chose to do that. We already put the gun to our head, and we arranged for that gun to be unstoppable (by asking A50 to ally with Fuzzy) on top of it.

Instead of alienating people, I'm asking you to re-evaluate. You're wrong and digging your heels in and getting ever more and more reachy trying to mangle things to fit just isn't like you.

~Drixx

P.S. -

On a personal note

, I'm very bothered by the fact that you are growing ever more hostile personally towards me. I thought we were friends. Cheering on someone saying I was sucking dick and attacking my personal ethics are just not things I expected from you. After the game, I'd really like you to drop me a PM and tell me what I did to deserve it.

P-edit:

The fact that you refuse to even evaluate other suspects and freely admit such is confusing to me. Your whole "If I'm wrong I'll sheep you" is a cop out. You ARE wrong and you're refusing to put your considerable skills to use in casing the other suspects (at which point I would expect you to realize you're wrong because you'll come up with an actual case against someone that makes sense), and I frankly don't get that. Have you considered that maybe the rest of us might be right? Presumably Grapes was informed of the benefit of allying with you, correct? So he told someone to hammer him and went through giving out instructions and telling the game that we and A50 are town and told the game how to proceed ... except he knew he wasn't going to actually be lynched and that was all a show. Have you considered that if the rest of us are right, you could be holding up the win out of sheer stubbornness in sticking to a bad case?

[mastin2]

Instead of alienating people, I'm asking you to re-evaluate.

Not happening.

I am not lynching grapes today.
If you live, I am not lynching grapes tomorrow.
If you die and the game doesn't end?
Fuck yes I will lynch grapes. Assuming that's what I'm told to do, which presumably it will be.

But I'm not backing down from this.
I don't even care if it's wrong. I have accepted that is a possibility. I have accepted there is a possibility grapes is scum and I am defending scum today.

But if today were mylo, my ability would not have worked--so we know we can't lose today.
And if tomorrow is mylo, then my ability will not work--which means grapes would be lynched.
And if you die, then I don't even USE an alliance unless you/MoI specifically tell me to use an alliance.
It's really that simple.

I'm very bothered by the fact that you are growing ever more hostile personally towards me.

Maybe that has to do with how you are imagining slights when there are none, e.g. you calling grapes's comment, what were your words? Homophobic? It was clearly not. And then there was saying grapes was trust telling. When grapes was clearly not.

If you keep on imagining offenses where there are none.
And you act demeaning towards me brushing off those nonexistent offenses as being nonexistent.
...No shit I'm going to be more hostile?

You're calling me an asshole for not recognizing things which...aren't there. And I'm sorry if you say they are, but to me they aren't there. And I am always. 100% of the time. Going to assume things like this hold alignment relevancy. Unless I can clearly tell they are not. (I will give the benefit of the doubt when it is made personal. I will not grant the benefit of the doubt when someone tries to gain an advantage in-game from it, which I felt you were doing.) And to me what you have pushed has not shown me these are null.

I will grant you--as of this post--that you probably were sincere in seeing that as a slur. (To which I say it wasn't and I disagree, but that's beside the point.) At the time I felt you were using a fallacious argument. I forget which one, not quite ad hominem, but more..."accusing the player of using ad hominem when they weren't"? There's a fallacy for that, I just don't remember its name. And that is what I saw you doing, though I will acknowledge that was an incorrect assumption on my end.

I still feel your complaint about the trust tell, however, contrary to your claims. Was a scumclaim.

The fact that you refuse to even evaluate other suspects and freely admit such is confusing to me.

You act as if I haven't already done this already.

I've BEEN doing it.
The whole damn time since the fire was reignited in me.
When we had Creature and kraska alive, I was lost, I was out of it--I didn't really think they were scum anymore, but I didn't have any ideas. I didn't know where to look. I was lost. I was doing the analysis, and every player had more reason to be town than scum.

That still remains true. And don't deny it. If you say otherwise, you're a liar. Literally every player in this game--even you--has more reason to be town than to be scum.

But one of those is, by definition, wrong. And I know there's one wrong. But I strongly feel it isn't grapes.
And I strongly feel that of the ones who are likely to be wrong, you best fit.

That doesn't mean I haven't ruled out Fuzzy.
I have thought about Fuzzy's play and how suboptimal it has been, how Fuzzy could totally pull off the guise of a sheep, and justify killing actions as they were dictated--following your and Almost50's word, for instance, is something Fuzzy could do especially to remove a wildcard like farside from the game who Fuzzy is smart enough to know was a threat to scum. I know that Fuzzy isn't as stupid as people assume him to be most times, so his scumplay is smart enough where he could be scum here.

But I have also considered his actions and thought about how much they fit for town. I concluded, near-identically to MoI, the thought of Fuzzy being unable to both faction kill and vig was somewhat unlikely. I also concluded that Fuzzy most likely did indeed have the vig shot. These are things which mechanically make sense. And the lack of a scum kill last night does look like it's an attempt to keep Fuzzy from being confirmed town, to leave the doubt and paranoia of maybe--just maybe--Fuzzy's vig was indeed one-shot and he used the factional kill last night on farside. As listed above, that is something I've thought about. But the frame looks far more likely to me.

I have thought about my stance on Almost50, and realized that ironically enough in spite of my stance of reading things off of facts, mechanics, and logic rather than on feels...the main reason I am townreading him is exactly that, off of feels. Off of gut. I could lie to you about this. I could claim that there are mechanical reasons that make him unlikely scum. There are. MagnaofIllusion has laid out a few. But the main reason I am not going after him is because I "think", with no reason attached, just think, he is town, and I fully realize he could be scum that I am just blindly townreading.

But I have also thought about it and looked at the reasons why I think that. His pushes simply don't seem to fit with a scum plan. Sure, he's a smart scum player. Sure, he's good enough to obfuscate the town insanity he displays when town. But is he THIS good at nailing it? No hint of some deeper posting. I've looked. Believe me I have. I don't see it, anywhere. I can't see anything other than the town stubbornness I know from him. I don't see any cheekiness. I don't see any manipulation. I don't see any sign of him having masterminded the game. I don't see anything from him so much as remotely suggesting he is scum with a plan. All I see is the crazy emu.

So that leaves grapes, and you.
Grapes, who has many reasons I feel is town.
And you, who I have many reasons I feel are scum.

Of course I see world where you're town.
And worlds where grapes is scum for that matter.
They are not the majority.

So I am pushing this.

Especially since my request isn't so unreasonable.
It's really painfully simple.

I'm not asking for your past agenda--regardless of your alignment, I don't give a damn about your past agenda. If scum that was just an act. If town, it's obsolete.

I asked for your current one. Assuming you were lynched today.
And you are refusing to honor that one. simple. request.

So damn straight I want you lynched over grapes. Because that play is more consistent with you as scum than you as town.

Presumably Grapes was informed of the benefit of allying with you, correct? So he told someone to hammer him and went through giving out instructions and telling the game that we and A50 are town and told the game how to proceed ... except he knew he wasn't going to actually be lynched and that was all a show.

I have thoughts on this.

They are not thoughts which should be posted at this time.