Open 664 - Tit for Tat (Mafia Wins)

[Alisae]

Read through Mala's iso.
Lots of asking for reads etc yet never giving them herself.
If you could please give some reads @malakittens.

Yeah Aelin, would you like to give us some reads?

[Hawk]

Posting to let ya'll know I'm here. Just getting back to normal routine after Christmas will post later once I've caught up.

[Aubrey]

Hmm, Kain that's a good point, tho I could be thinking that you're vote on inno could be an early attempt at a bus.

But for now my vote goes here I guess
VOTE: Spade_Ace

Wasn't that vote a second RVS vote though?....

You're pushing some things that just make me go. Sometimes.

@Lil The question was more directed at Crystalline Dagger. I did an ISo on him and apart from post 222 most of his posts have been irrelevant. They are either hydra clarifying themselves, about Pokemon, about Transcend or about the 'water washy' thing. I know it is an RVS, Crystalline, but do some kind of scumhunting else it looks as if you are just trying to look involved.

Also his one original post 222, he says 218 of IV made him thing IV was a scum. I actually felt 218 made IV lean more towards town. It seems as if he is trying subtly join the IV wagon.

VOTE: Crystalline Dagger

I agree with the first part of this. that post was the only one of any relevance, and I wasn't exactly found of it either. However, I'm the one who brought up Transcend mostly. With reason.

Listen, Transcend is in a class with some players like Kain Tepes that we called the "WTF zone". They break the mold and are uncontrollable. IV is not one of these.

lol

i promise, i am no transcend

i think i my most recent game he deathtunneled me with zero reasoning and lost us the game -_-

The last game i played with him he soft claimed the lead mafia role, self hammered when he was at L-1, and flipped some type of town PR like watcher or tracker. I wont play another game with him personally.

Transcend's a cool dog. Give him another chance.

What is the relevance of a discussion on a player who is not involved in this game???

Let me explain. Gamma, SAJ, (the hydra heads) and I have all played with that player before together. Transcend is a player who doesn't give a rats ass what people think of his slot, even if he is town. His posts are rather ambiguous, short, lacking explanation

usually

, somewhat trollish, and even disinterested at times. Up until post 222, IV seemed to be playing exactly like how Transcend starts out. Maybe minus 218 a bit.

Anywho, the slot highly reminded me of how Transcend plays, so I wanted to see how that slot would progress before I put to much judgment on it. Then Dagger waltzes up and throws out a vote against him, similar to how town who has not experienced Transcend before and scum would vote him.

:/

Dagger just "

Can't believe a townie would not care about how they present themselves to the town

" even though clearly we have players like Transcend that they have experienced. The move just felt odd coming from them, and I feel as if they should have been more cautious when regarding that slot. That's why I brought it up. I did think,

well maybe they played together before

, but clearly that was not the case once I asked for them to expand on their thoughts.

Listen, Transcend is in a class with some players like Kain Tepes that we called the "WTF zone". They break the mold and are uncontrollable. IV is not one of these.

lol

i promise, i am no transcend

i think i my most recent game he deathtunneled me with zero reasoning and lost us the game -_-

The last game i played with him he soft claimed the lead mafia role, self hammered when he was at L-1, and flipped some type of town PR like watcher or tracker. I wont play another game with him personally.

Transcend's a cool dog. Give him another chance.

What is the relevance of a discussion on a player who is not involved in this game???

None. Is there a problem?

@Lil The question was more directed at Crystalline Dagger. I did an ISo on him and apart from post 222 most of his posts have been irrelevant. They are either hydra clarifying themselves, about Pokemon, about Transcend or about the 'water washy' thing. I know it is an RVS, Crystalline, but do some kind of scumhunting else it looks as if you are just trying to look involved.

Also his one original post 222, he says 218 of IV made him thing IV was a scum. I actually felt 218 made IV lean more towards town. It seems as if he is trying subtly join the IV wagon.

VOTE: Crystalline Dagger

So has your opinion changed towards IV?

I'd like to know this too.

[Alisae]

Wasn't that vote a second RVS vote though?....

You're pushing some things that just make me go. Sometimes.

His vote on Inno. By that time we were out of RVS, no?

Votecount N°3

Not Voting (4):

Malakittens, Aelin, Kop, Lil Uzi Vert

Alisae (1):

Aubrey

Crystalline Dagger (0):

Kop (0):

innocentvillager (4):

KainTepes, Alisae,

Spade_Ace

, Crystalline Dagger

bangthemafia (0):

Spade_Ace (2):

bangthemafia

Malakittens (2):

Hawk

Aubrey (1):

innocentvillager

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline in: (expired on 2017-01-04 12:00:00)

Going to prod bangthemafia. I'll be seeking a replacement if he does not respond within 48 hours.

[Aubrey]

Seemed to me he was just voting a slot that hadn't said anything up until that point since we really had nothing to go off of that much.

[Alisae]

Kain voted him due to "washing water"
I voted him due to him saying that dumb questions are scummy.

I'm pretty sure we had something to go off by then.

[Aubrey]

Last I checked KT voted him in post 133. IV doesn't come into the picture until post 135.

[Spade_Ace]

Hey am back. There seems to be many questions. Let me ans them one by one.

[Spade_Ace]

Also, Aubrey. Am somewhat getting the feel that you are defending me. Why??

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Kain feels town for that vote honestly.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: innocentvillager

Not liking his posts so far. They all seem ambiguous.

First, Alisae and Aelin. You both asked me my reasons for initially voting against IV. Please have a look at the posts IV posted prior to me voting against him. If they are not ambiguous, I don't know what is. He came in at Post 135 and this was all he could muster as a catchup till 185. I thought he was purposefully being non-committal.

chill fam it's been like less than a day

Also hi all

Malta is scum

Mala is scum
Hawk is town
Alis is town

Don't ask me to justify these yet these are just gut, I'll let you guys know when to take my opinions seriously if I can find reasoning

Wow dudes I don't know this game idk what to think

Getting mixed vibes all around

Wow dudes I don't know this game idk what to think

Getting mixed vibes all around

What happened here? You went from what seemed like somewhat sturdy guy reads to being vexed all around.

take a wild guess

VOTE: aubrey

dumb questions are scummy

[Spade_Ace]

For questions asked by IV, Kop and Aubrey. Post 218 was IV's first quality post and the reason I town read him for that is:

hmm mostly gut

your next post 124 or something seemed like a lot of IC-garbage that I would post as an IC which felt unnecessary here since this isn't a newbie, but maybe you're just doing this out of habit and some of these players feel inexperienced in a way
feels like you're trying too hard to "note things that stick out to you but you're not sure why yet", but i don't really see you ever returning to those things that stuck out to you (correct me if im wrong and you did). i like to do this shit as scum bc it makes me seem more organic, but of course they're not so i forget about them and never bring them up again

I could relate to this, cos in my only Newbie game, the IC who later turned out to be scum, did the exact same thing. And she was easily scum read for that. You can check it.

also rereading hawk from early pages makes me weary of that slot. like wtf was that reaction test on alisae? "im voting you Alisae" next post "this is a reaction test alisae, how do you react" like wat. Not scummy but just weirdly not thought out. idk hawk gives me mixed vibes bc he's does scummy unhelpful shit like this but is also towntelling weirdly to some degree

i still think i like alisae for town

Your reads on Hawk and Alisae seemed similar to mine.

In Post 150 I mentioned the fact that I didn't like what Hawk was doing but I also didn't vote for him cos I didn't feel it was a scumtell.
In Post 211,I mention why I have no issues with Alisae's vote change and that I would have found it to be scummy otherwise.

So is it not natural to town read a person with whom you agree?? So, yes this changed my view on IV.

[Aelin]

Why aren't you voting for Spade then?

Hey iv

I'm scum why??

Twist this around
@malakittens. You're town why?

What are you trying to say here?

I second uzi, what the fuck are you expecting to accomplish with this question and why in reference to that specific post??

Both Spade and IV ping me a bit, but Spade more so.
He constantly is calling the case on him null and void and blames his scumminess on inactivity, which is not the case at all.
Is Spade's vote still just on CD from RVS?
I also want to read through Mala's iso because at first I was getting scum vibes

Okay so you scumread both me and spade, but the only specifics you lay out are spades scummy posturing against me, and his ignoring of my case against him which you seem to agree with (maybe extrapolating here but implied i think).

a) does it not bother you that both of us are scumreads yet we are going after each other? Surely it must at least be mention worthy for your thought process?
b) does it not bother you that you are using one of your scumreads points and examples of him to illustrate why your other scumread is scummy?

Inno if we're talking about catchup posts, Aelin's doesn't look that good either tbh

i dont have a problem with them at all whats your problem with it?

@alisae answer plz?

a) I agree my reasoning there is slightly flawed. But I think there is a strong possibility one of you is scum. A villager pushing a wolf or vice versa.
Actually Ace being oppurtunistic makes me lean towards him being scum.
Kain is an oddball, and a type of player I have seen to a lesser degree, who I struggle to read well.
His pushes so far are decent though.

(Look above for b, I suppose in a way it answers it.)
Alisae, could you anseer the question IV asked you so I can understand your point.
Spade, do you scumread people pushing you?
These people I asked for answers please give them so I can give out my reads on you further

[Spade_Ace]

Apart from that, I townread him for questioning me too. I could understand why IV thought my catchup looked forced. Alisae had just voted against me and my reply could have seemed as a scum trying to throw shade on others.

My issue with Dagger was that I used to all kinds of such irrelevant stuff as a scum during my Whatsapp Mafia days and rarely used to get called out on that. He has posted 26 messages and I felt only 222 was the only one with content. So yes, too many irrelevant and ambiguous posts is something that is scummy to me. This was his post 222.

This whole game i have been focused on discerning the scum from the town and trying to improve my player reading skill. Its been kind of hard for me but then i got to post 218 and thought, that is it, there has to be scum between IV and Mala because they wouldnt exchange like that if both were scum and it doesn't make sense if both are town because i then got to post 220 and it made it clear that IV isnt town in my eyes. The way IV shrugs off the suggestion that they make it clear which posts they are responding to looked scummy to me. How can someone just not care about whether or not their posts are clear and understood? How can a town aligned player not care if he makes the town as a whole more confused and in a roundabout way essentially leave the town with less information? For now my vote rests on IV.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: InnocentVillager

I will go through their ISO now that i have a concise read and know how i feel about them.

~Jin~

I didn't think either 218 or 220 warranted a vote change by Dagger and combined with the irrelevant stuff he has been posting, I thought of voting against him.

PEDIT: Will have a look at your reply Aelin

[Aelin]

Anyone else you scumread?
Do you scumread me?

[Spade_Ace]

Both Spade and IV ping me a bit, but Spade more so.
He constantly is calling the case on him null and void and blames his scumminess on inactivity, which is not the case at all.
Is Spade's vote still just on CD from RVS?
I also want to read through Mala's iso because at first I was getting scum vibes

VOTE: innocentvillager

Not liking his posts so far. They all seem ambiguous.

Very quick to jump on there weren't you?

Hey iv

I'm scum why??

Twist this around
@malakittens. You're town why?

the reason you change your vote to be on someone should be because you actually noticed something significant that points in the direction of them being scum

You've been called out for not providing content lately, started getting some suspicion on you. All you've really done this game is clarify, engage in irrelevant discussion, talk about merits of RVS and stuff, and at one point you literally voted me for like "ambiguous posts". Is that a legitimate reason to vote someone?

Here, you're calling out Crystalline for 1) irrelevant posting, which a. you yourself do and b. is completely null 2) you townread me for a post they scumread me for.

I cannot buy that as a logical, real genuine thought out town process for switching a vote. Your scumtells and follow-up votes have so far all been based on "ambiguity and irrelevance", which are in no way significant scumtells and I doubt town!you would've actually had these thoughts organically arise.

Spade then proceeds to completely ignore this case and shade Alisae

Aelin, I am not liking any of your posts to be honest. Your read on me seemed quite opportunistic. Few questions.

1) When did I throw shade on Alisae???
2) Are you suspecting Mala too?
3) Why have you not changed your vote from RVS. If you are suspecting me why have you not voted.

[Spade_Ace]

Anyone else you scumread?
Do you scumread me?

Just saw this message. Why are you asking me whether I scumread you or not? That makes no sense.

[Aelin]

Perhaps I misunderstood the shading I thought I saw.
You seemed awful focused on just one vote on you and got very defensive very quick though.
Also don't omit the question I asked about your scumreads.

[Aelin]

Possibly suspecting Mala. Waiting for a reply.
3. I will soon most likely and you are not doing a very good job of making me not to do

[Malakittens]

It's not my duty to convince you I'm town. It's my duty to explain and lynch who I believe is scum.

[Aelin]

Good answer

[Alisae]

Aelin, this is the answer to that question.

Read through Mala's iso.
Lots of asking for reads etc yet never giving them herself.
If you could please give some reads @malakittens.

Yeah Aelin, would you like to give us some reads?

[Alisae]

I feel as if you are doing nothing to progress the game.

[Aelin]

Going through this one person per post because on mobile

[Aelin]

Something from her perspective I lack, Alisae has been giving out reads, asking people and progressing the game, so a town read