OPEN 663: STACK THE DECK (GAME OVER)

[Antihuman]

Lol everybody who's sheeping the Gamma wagon "cause he posts fluff" should take a good fucking look at ThinkingBig

Let's try to get some discussion going.

1. What's your favorite open setup?
2. What is your favorite/least favorite role?
3. Do you prefer town or scum?

My choice

1. Fire and ice
2. Either cop or vig
3. Town

Useless rqs shit

V/LA until Tuesday. Busy with the holidays.

Excuses not to post content

It's about intent. Get off of me. I'm not getting lynched. Vote Gamma.

Next thing you know I'll be l-5 followed by l-4

I find these two posts to be an over reaction and I'm not liking post 103.

Bullshit

He has two OPTIONS. ALTERNATIVE. He didn't talk about SuperHans means HE DIDN'T TAKE THE OPTION.

False dichotomy and really poor analysis from your part.

Anybody who uses the 'false dichotomy' buzzword deserves to eat the rope. Get the fuck outta here trying to pose as a psychiatrist, pal

davesaz scummy

Why?

0 effort question

Ask me in a few days :3

Why? So you can continue to evade the question and think of an answer?

Insulting intelligence of others, typical scum

Ask me in a few days :3

Why? So you can continue to evade the question and think of an answer?

Mother fucker you think I can't come up with a fake answer on the spot if I wanted? Please that's super easy

Then why not answer the fucking question? Your passive aggressive defense isn't winning you any town points from me.

Bad mindset, evaluating content from the seeking-for-towncred standpoint

intent to hammer

He is at L-3.

Look at me, I'm helping

We have 12 days left. No need to rush a lynch.

Look at me, I'm helping [2]

intent to hammer

He is at L-3.

@TB : It's a classic gambit.\

Hey TD! Explain how MariaR is AI?

I didn't say it was AI.

Coasting

So why you vote him and say "serious vote"?

It was a pressure vote to get him to answer the question he was asked and actually contribute.

'Pressure vote' on someone who clearly doesn't give a shit about being pressured

Welcome Desperado! I will be catching up and posting tomorrow. Hope everyone had a nice holiday.

Further excuses+buddying

VOTE: Gamma

Afraid of what? Please explain your vote.

Seeking for low-hanging fruit

Question to the veterans:
Do town players substitute out at a greater rate than scum players, or is it usually the same rate?
I'm just curious.

I've seen it from both alignments. Replacing out is NAI.

IIoA

VOTE: ThinkingBig lynch this with fire

Dunnstral tr, I'd also tr Superhans and Realeo if they jumped off this pathetic Gamma wagon and followed me

[Antihuman]

It's only logical to townread people who lynched scum

[Antihuman]

It's only logical to townread people who lynched scum

This is bad logic. Someone obviously hasn't heard of bussing or is woefully ignorant of it. Lynching scum is not a reason to TR people. In fact, in my experience, I'm more likely to find scum on the wagon than off it.

So? Lynching scum is the first step, I can always do vca later.

[Antihuman]

@Gamma

1. RQS sucks because answers are easily manipulated and tailored to players
2. Dunn didn't look concerned with his 'wagon' at all. I wouldn't even call it a wagon
3. If it's TB's playstyle then he can easily incorporate it in his scumplay, especially that he's been encouraged by people being thankful. It's nai at best but I still don't like it
4. If I was going for a low hanging fruit, I would've just jumped on your wagon

Pedit this is a towny reaction. People should unvote gamma

[Antihuman]

I'm tunnelling you cause I'm a daycop with a guilty on you

[Antihuman]

I'm tunnelling you cause I'm a daycop with a guilty on you

Daycops are impossible in this setup. If you're looking to get a reaction out of me, you're not getting one. Sorry!

This was a reaction too

[Antihuman]

@Gamma

1. RQS sucks because answers are easily manipulated and tailored to players
2. Dunn didn't look concerned with his 'wagon' at all. I wouldn't even call it a wagon
3. If it's TB's playstyle then he can easily incorporate it in his scumplay, especially that he's been encouraged by people being thankful. It's nai at best but I still don't like it
4. If I was going for a low hanging fruit, I would've just jumped on your wagon

Pedit this is a towny reaction. People should unvote gamma

1) Yeah, but only if the questions are leading. Questions like "are you mislynched a lot" are scummy, as they allow for scum to establish a town persona through their answers.
2) He was definitely concerned about the vote.
3) I'm not saying it's reason to townread him, I'm saying it's not reason to scumread him.
4) That's not exactly true. Jumping on my wagon would have been rather scummy.

But seeing as what I've done has been deemed scummy too, what does it tell you?

[Antihuman]

TB when is a tunnel pro-town?

[Antihuman]

I do admit my case on TB may have been a bit overblown but I wanted people to see the parallel between this and Gamma's wagon.
I've seen few interesting reactions, gonna elaborate tomorrow (this is the part where TB should shout: excuses!).

[Antihuman]

Also why is Gammas reaction towny? Is TBs reaction also towny?

It's towny in my eyes cause I wager scum would be satisfied with having heat taken off them and just waited out the storm instead of making such a fierce push and risking backlash.
As per TB's reaction, I'm not exactly sure because he didn't have a chance to respond first. I'd say voting me was the logical choice as either alignment, plus Gamma's push prolly reinforced his idea of it being the right move. Same thing later on, he basically parrots Superhuman, even using similar wording:

Perhaps u shouldn't be tunneling if u have to resort to this sloppy and lazy trap.

When you actually have a guilty result on someone and don't have to resort to dirty tricks and traps.

This makes me question whether his reactions are genuine and original but I'm biased so you tell me.

AH what's your opinion on Gamma's vote on Desperado, and Desperado's sudden swap from voting Gamma to you?

I found his reasons weak, obviously. Need some time to judge whether his wagon hopping is AI or just playstyle.

I can relate to the people who are getting town vibe from Gamma.

But I cannot relate to the people who are moving that extreme to the spectrum of "scum lean" -> "town lean"

That's actually pretty interesting. The question is what we get from comparing two completely different reactions: assuming scum!Gamma's being chainsawed by his partner/assuming Gamma's town who got cleared thanks to my input.
If people thought my push on TB for voting Gamma was shit, why did they feel like Gamma should be let go? My guess is they were aware of Gamma's wagon being bad and looked for an opportunity to switch.

@Superhans @Kop what made you guys change your mind about Gamma? Asking you, since several people made it obvious- they found a better target. You however, have abstained from voting.

@Desperado I saw you vote AH and that steadies my hand a bit because your vote was naked and had just swapped from the leading (but losing traction) Gamma wagon onto the rapidly growing AH wagon.

I fail to see why'd you feel good about this. Isn't that clear opportunism?

@ssbm

U ask him questions but vote him before he's had a chance to respond...

Also who do u think is AHs scum buddy?

Well, she obviously thinks I'm scum with Gamma, which is rubbish. If I was scum, I'd be bussing the shit outta Gamma instead of painting a target on my back.

My current stand is that Antihuman is like Superhans,

awkward

. Awkwardness is not explicitly a tell. =/

We're reading Antihuman completely differently. I see confidence where it doesn't belong, not awkwardness.

What's your basis for judging the proper level of my self-confidence? We don't have history together.

[Antihuman]

^this is a good observation. I'm not exactly sure what's the basis for Dunn's townread on me, apart from the fact he does townread me.

[Antihuman]

It was belief in my actions. I guess you'll form a better understandment of my mindset as the game goes on.

[Antihuman]

What was scumThink doing with the RQS? You dismiss it as useless RQS bullshit, which is something I don't understand.

Apparently it's something he does every game so whatever

[Antihuman]

Your case was fine, pushing someone is fine

I wouldn't call that an explanation

[Antihuman]

Like, this is true in itself but context matters

[Antihuman]

Hmm

@ssbm what do you think of Dunn's defense of me?

[Antihuman]

Don't have an opinion on that. I usually look for team associations but haven't been seeing them this time.

That's weird cause your first reaction was a team association of me and Gamma.

I don't think you're necessarily scum with Gamma, but I do think you attacked his wagon with intent. Could be you're scum with him, could be he's town and you saw his wagon stalling and decided to pick up the momentum and transfer it to another townie before a townie discovered the scum on Gamma's wagon and started pushing that player.

This is an extremely far-fetched theory but for argument's sake let's assume I'm scum and he's not. Who's the most likely person to be my partner on his wagon?

@ssbm what do you think of Dunn's defense of me?

It's incomplete, will see what she has to say "in the morning" as promised in 367. Don't see anything scummy jumping out at me in it yet though, except the assumption that the players voting you would push TB if you flipped town. I don't think that's true at all, I know it's not for me

So your first reaction to my defense of Gamma was calling it "scum derailing his partner's wagon". Now Dunn has done the same exact thing and you don't think it's suspicious. Wouldn't it make sense for you to think Dunn's my partner chainsawing me?

[Antihuman]

Just re read the last few pages.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I really don't like his defense of antihuman. It reeks the smell of buddying.

This post feels off. Why did you only notice his buddying after a re-read? It's not like it's hard evidence that you need to dig for, 'buddying' is very subjective and you can only judge it based on your own feelings and should notice it at the first glance, so if it didn't spark any suspicion in you the first time you saw our interactions, why are you saying it looks suspicious now? Looks to me like you're trying to plant something post factum here.

I'll get to my thoughts about the last 11 pages later, I'm gonna go to bed actually pretty soon.
But yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here
VOTE: Desperado
Obvious Traitor

Desperado obv Traitor, maybe...

But Desperado + MariaR -> traitor... I don'k think so.

What makes you think Desperado may be the traitor? And why do you say Maria's unlikely to be one?

Imo this:

Oh no I'm found scum in 155 posts
...so scary

In conjunction with this:

Crumbing roles are something I expect scum to do more then town

Looks pretty interesting, wouldn't you say?

Raleo - null scum
Don't like the phrasing of "Why would I do X"

<--- looks nai to me, it's only natural everyone tries to compare stuff to their pov

Also don't like how they back up Maria on confirming my slot as town.

Superhans -Nullscumlean
Oppertunistic voting
Sheepish behavoir

<--- can't agree with this, he looks to be trying to solve the game

Kop - Town

<--- which posts stand out the most?

Genuinely evaluating game

Algebra - Scum
Needs to eat rope beacause common core is shit, and in my algebra 2 class I didn't learn a single thing

<--- meh, forced jokes like this are more likely to come from scum in my experience

Kyouko - probably town
Pointing out crumbs but dunno what to make of it.

<--- do you think this

Genuinely evaluates the game

<--- and this are connected, i.e. she has outside knowledge and uses it to influcence the game?

Desperato - Traitor
Mostly based on Maria's slot. Don't like how they confirmed my slot as town.

Gamma - Needs Rope
Don't like their vote right away on Desperato as they replaced. Sure it's probably pressure but I feel as if it completely disregarded Maria's play.

TB - Probably Town

<--- because of the town things he did or cause you're scumreading me?

Davesaz - Town
Genuinely attempting to solve the game

<--- agreed

Antihuman - Needs Rope
Sure they have some bad posts
Attempts to derail the gamma wagon. If Gamma flipped scum this would look really bad for him

<--- shit argument cause you don't know what Gamma will flip. Or do you?
How would Gamma flipping town influence my alignment in your opinion?

Dunn - I can't read this shit. Gun to my head town?

<--- his latest exchange with TB looks towny imo

Reads based off of the last 10 pages.

Here are my reads so far:

Algebra

- Confirmed town. I so wish he would contribute to the game and be more active. There's no way I'd be TRing him if he wasn't the IC.

Alisae

- Strong town lean. I like his analysis so far and he seems to be making a genuine attempt to scum hunt and solve the game.

ssbm_Kyouko

- Null lean.

Davesaz

- Null town.

Kop - Null

Gamma - Null

Superhans - Null

Dunnestral

- Null scum. I really don't like how he buddied up to Antihuman. His defense screamed that he was buddying him.

Realeao

- Scum lean. I don't like how he constantly asks "why" and asks people to keep explaining things that they already have. He asks those types of questions in a scummy way.

Antihuman

- I really don't like how he has been throwing shades everywhere. His case against me was very bad and felt contrived. I also really don't like how he tried to derail the Gamma wagon. If gamma flips scum, I'm fairly confident he is scum as well.

I think that's everyone. Let me know if I missed someone.

EBWOP.

I also think I mistook desperado/dunnestral. I also have a SL on desperado.

So you're basically scumreading everyone who's been recently frowned upon on whatever reasons. Weak.

OK

So why aren't you voting AH who has 3 votes, and instead voting me who only has yours

What are you trying to do

Good point, stuff like this makes me tr Dunn. He has a very good point. I'd rather undecided people jumped on my wagon, flipped me and proceeded on D2 with plenty of interactions to analyse rather than waited for a panic lynch at the very last moment. We need to consolidate wagons.

Why was my vote on AH tunneling? I initially voted for him because he initially attacked me in an opportunistic and scummy way by misrepresenting my posts and misrepresenting my position. He attacked me for being V/LA and he attacked me for my RQS questions. The only player that AH has openly and explicitly attacked was me.

I'm curious why did you feel threatened by someone attacking you for shitty reasons like activity and rqs. You look very insecure, yet your rebuttal at me seems to suggest otherwise. I'm sensing a clash of two different mindsets here, why is that?

[Antihuman]

If you're implying that Kyouko has slipped I really don't like that.

I'm not implying anything, I'm trying to understand your thought process and get a more decisive stance from you than "I'm uncertain". I'll take you're townleaning on Kyouko right now.

And you know "gun to my head" means "If you forced me to take a stance"

Yes, that's why I encouraged you to take a look at his latest posts. His exchange with TB should look TvT from your pov.

[Antihuman]

Lol this readlist's such bullshit

Revised Read List

Algebra

- Confirmed town. I so wish he would contribute to the game and be more active. There's no way I'd be TRing him if he wasn't the IC.

<--- Completely unnecessary comment. Trying to appear better by having one extra scumread

Alisae

- By far my biggest town read. He shows genuine interest in the game and shows genuine scum hunting.

<--- because she scumreads me too, how surprising

Superhans

- Town lean. I disagree with his logic, but I understand where he is coming from

<--- aka "I know his reasons for scumreading me are valid but I'll just wait until he gets bored and goes away"

ssbm_Kyouko - Null town.

<--- in your previous readlist, she was a "null lean", which looks like a hilarious slip. You don't wanna look like you have too many nulls but you have no reasons for townreading her.

Davesaz - Null town.

<--- for what? He's defended me and he's voted Desperado for logic which you called flatout wrong!

Kop - Null

<--- what's your opinion on Real's case on Kop?

Gamma - Null

<--- but he's my partner, member?!

Desperado

- Null, leans scum. I don't really buy the traitor theory nor do I buy the logic behind it.

<--- Why the fuck are you scumleaning on him then?! Leaving your options open? You should be scumreading people who started pushing him for wrong reasons instead! (including your strongest tr, Alisae...)

Realeao

- Scum lean. 561 screams opportunistic and sheeping. I also don't like how he is constantly flipping his reads and can't seem to make up his mind.

<--- How the hell is he sheeping when he's provided valid reasons for scumreading you, just like Superhans. How come you don't "disagree with his logic but see where he's coming from" here? Being undecided isn't a scumtell too. You've scumread me for tunnelling, which is a complete opposite! You also haven't addressed his points...

Antihuman

- Continuing to throw shades and continuing

<--- what the hell does that even mean? If scumminess was the color black, there wouldn't even be a shadow visible on you, smh

Honest to god, I wasn't really up to lynching you when I entered the game but now I seriously have reasons to see you hang, there are just too many discrepancies. I also wouldn't be surprised at Tb-Alisae team. Both are pushing me on bullshit reasoning and townread each other based on thin air, looks like a well coordinated last minute mislynch push.

[Antihuman]

@Alisae my initial push on TB was supposed to show people you how easily you can make a shitty case on someone like people wagoned Gamma for shit reasons plus getting reactions. Guess that worked out well cause I moved discussion forward a whole fuckton.

@TB you also left out Dunnstral from your list again, wtf is up with that?

[Antihuman]

Yeah and you're omgused me with no explicit arguments other than "you're scummy for voting me", bitch please

[Antihuman]

I've just showed how your readslist is a forged pile of discrepancies, all you can do is spew bullshit about "tunnelling in anti-town way". Like you're not tunnelling me right now at all lol

[Antihuman]

Yeah like a town player has reasons to freak out so much like you did after somebody puts 1 vote on them

[Antihuman]

You should change your nick to InsecureScum

[Antihuman]

zZz just lynch me already, I can't take this united scumfront pounding at my will to do something productive

[Antihuman]

TB ISN'T A NEWBIE

[Antihuman]

Fine then help me lynch TB and you can lynch me if he flips scum idc

[Antihuman]

Yeah it seems like really a great play to get into the game, decide you wanna tunnel your partner for no particular reason instead of choosing a safe target and try to blend in with deadline slowly approaching and risk getting both players lynched as the only viable wagons wtf I'm a much better scum player than that, don't insult me

[Antihuman]

No need for useless speculation, I will flip town and TB will flip scum. Feel free to hammer.

[Antihuman]

TB, I didn't bus you, it's astonishing you still don't get it.
I pushed you from the getgo in such an obvious way even a blind man would notice

I knew your alignment

. Seriously, it didn't make you wonder that I nitpicked on

every single thing

you said? I think Dunn has recognized me as a traitor and you could've done too but instead you panicked and created a counter-push that got me lynched. I planned on unvoting you when you finally recognized me as a partner and I was very close to do that anyway when I saw it was all in vain but you re-voted me and it was all too far gone. I'm still baffled people picked me over you when your only defense was "throwing shades" the whole game, rotfl. If you got lynched instead, I would've prolly rode on towncred for a good while.
All of this could've been of course avoided if only you recruited me. Oh well. Sorry for how it turned out, I didn't wanna play it safe and boring.

[Antihuman]

Also gj town, been a pleasure to watch you at work. Such fierce discussion and activity throughout the whole game is very rare nowadays.