Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)

[shannon]

I do not understand how Titus's no-result on me clears me for town. The argument given here for why ssbm is scum is one of the weakest I've ever seen. I am extremely not understanding why we are not lynching you today.

I'm not going to give you fake reasons to lynch me!

Wait so you explaining why you want to lynch me, or you explaining how Titus's no-result clears Shadonra for town, would just be a fake reason to lynch you? If you're not willing to explain either of those, can you explain why you think those explanations would be fake reasons to lynch you?

My comment was in response to the last sentence - "I am extremely not understanding why we are not lynching you today." My response is that I am not going to give her a fake reason to lynch me.

Regarding the other points -

Titus's no result on Shad doesn't clear Shad for town. It doesn't mean anything, except that if Titus is town she targeted Shad, and she didn't get a result.

As for the argument about why we're voting you, well, my gut tells me yes. I look through your ISO and see town, with flashes that could be scummy - the same I've seen in my own scum games, particularly one where I was super duper town read. I am fighting a battle between reason and feeling here, and feeling is winning.

[shannon]

You guys are gonna feel real silly when you lynch the last of the town block and give scum free reign over their NK, just saying. If this goes through, one of Titus/Drone tomorrow.
*snip*

What town block is that supposed to be?

You're going to have to walk me through how that question is shading, and how you're not suspicious at all of shannon's sudden turn on me

It's not sudden. As I posted much, much earlier, if Titus and Drone and town that makes you gut-read scum to me for steering the game as you have.

Okay.
Drealm flipped town and read me town.
So did Transcend, and Uzi (was he?) .
What's next?

For reference, here's Uzi's last posts:

Sesq

, I trust you the most so my final reads are

Town: Kyouko, Shannon, and TTTT
Null: Rask, Impoetic
Null Scum: Drone, Gerry
Scum: D7, Titus

Please sheep them and lead the town to victory.

Drone I don't like your appeal to authority there. For one, it's wrong, Uzi scum read you, not town read you. For two, dead townies don't have magical powers: Uzi scum read D7, who was night killed that night.

Hm. The fact that I haven't been hammered yet probably means scum is already on my wagon.

This is a good point - let's look at Uzi's wagons. I don't know what to say for them, exactly, except there's a lot of shuffling around until Drone eventually joins it. I think he might be right that scum were already there, but I'd like other opinions. Sesq? Rask?

VC 2.18

Lil Uzi Vert (5)

: TTTT, gerryoat, ssbm_Kyouko,

drealmerz7

, Titus

-- L-1!

shannon (1)

: Raskolnikov

Drone (1)

: shannon

Raskolnikov (1)

: Sesq

Sesq (1)

: Drone

Titus (1)

: Lil Uzi Vert

NOT VOTING (1)

: Impoetic

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-22 01:30:00)

VC 2.19

Lil Uzi Vert (5)

: TTTT, gerryoat,

drealmerz7

, Titus, ssbm_Kyouko

-- L-1!

shannon (1)

: Raskolnikov

Drone (1)

: shannon

Raskolnikov (1)

: Sesq

Sesq (1)

: Drone

Titus (1)

: Lil Uzi Vert

NOT VOTING (1)

: Impoetic

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-22 01:30:00)

VC 2.20 (FINAL)

Lil Uzi Vert (6)

: TTTT, gerryoat,

drealmerz7

, Titus, ssbm_Kyouko, Drone

-- LYNCH!

shannon (1)

: Raskolnikov

Drone (1)

: shannon

Titus (1)

: Lil Uzi Vert

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic, Sesq

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-22 01:30:00)

Flip incoming.

[shannon]

RB's wagons for comparison. Again, I'm going to leave it to someone else to commentate on wagon analysis, what I'm most interested in is what happens early D2.

VC 1.18

rb (4)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7

, Drone, ssbm_Kyouko

ironstove (1)

: gerryoat

gerryoat (1)

: TTTT

drealmerz7 (1)

:

Lil Uzi Vert

Sesq (1)

:

rb

Transcend (1)

: ironstove

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

: iamafluffyrabbit

NOT VOTING (3)

: Impoetic, shannon, Sesq

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

I ate 14 jam drops yesterday and now I have none. =(

iamafluffyrabbit is V/LA until the 2nd.

VC 1.19

rb (5)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

Drone, ssbm_Kyouko,

Lil Uzi Vert

-- L-2!

ironstove (1)

: gerryoat

gerryoat (1)

: TTTT

Sesq (1)

:

rb

Transcend (1)

: ironstove

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

: iamafluffyrabbit

NOT VOTING (3)

: Impoetic, shannon, Sesq

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

iamafluffyrabbit is V/LA until the 2nd.

VC 1.20

rb (6)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

Drone, ssbm_Kyouko,

Lil Uzi Vert

, Sesq

-- L-1!

gerryoat (2)

: TTTT, ironstove

Drone (1)

: gerryoat

Sesq (1)

:

rb

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

: iamafluffyrabbit

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic, shannon

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

iamafluffyrabbit is V/LA until the 2nd.

VC 1.22

rb (5)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

Drone, ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq

-- L-2!

gerryoat (3)

: TTTT, ironstove, iamafluffyrabbit

Transcend (1)

: shannon

Drone (1)

: gerryoat

Sesq (1)

:

rb

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic,

Lil Uzi Vert

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

iamafluffyrabbit is V/LA until the 2nd.

VC 1.24

rb (4)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq

gerryoat (3)

: TTTT, ironstove, iamafluffyrabbit

drealmerz7 (1)

: Drone

Transcend (1)

: shannon

Drone (1)

: gerryoat

Sesq (1)

:

rb

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic,

Lil Uzi Vert

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

iamafluffyrabbit is V/LA until the 2nd.

Impoetic is V/LA until the 4th.

VC 1.26

rb (5)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq, gerryoat

-- L-2!

gerryoat (3)

: TTTT, ironstove, iamafluffyrabbit

Transcend (1)

: shannon

Sesq (1)

:

rb

NOT VOTING (3)

: Impoetic,

Lil Uzi Vert,

Drone

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

iamafluffyrabbit has requested replacement.

Impoetic is V/LA until the 4th.

VC 1.30

rb (5)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq, gerryoat

-- L-2!

gerryoat (3)

: TTTT, ironstove, Drone

TTTT (1)

: Titus

Transcend (1)

: shannon

Sesq (1)

:

rb

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic,

Lil Uzi Vert

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

Impoetic is V/LA until the 4th.

VC 1.32

rb (6)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq, gerryoat, ironstove

-- L-1!

gerryoat (2)

: TTTT, Drone

TTTT (1)

: Titus

Transcend (1)

: shannon

Sesq (1)

:

rb

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic,

Lil Uzi Vert

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

Someone please bring me coffee. I'll love you forever.

VC 1.34 (FINAL)

rb (7)

:

Transcend, drealmerz7,

ssbm_Kyouko, Sesq, gerryoat, ironstove, TTTT

-- LYNCH!

gerryoat (1)

: Drone

Lil Uzi Vert (1)

: Titus

Transcend (1)

: shannon

Sesq (1)

:

rb

NOT VOTING (2)

: Impoetic,

Lil Uzi Vert

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

Flip incoming.

[Drone]

You know that me not voting rb was what sparked the neighbourhood force outing?
Remember how Kyouko did when Titus headbutted me?

[shannon]

OK reading D2 pretty sure Gerry is scum.

1401 is role fishing.
1468 is throwing shade on a PR claim.
1474 throws more shade and asks for a counter claim in order to lynch LUV. (Titus conveniently provides one, but I think Titus' post 1467 was the key here, Gerry picked up on the implication of Titus' question).
1484 he comes out and fully goes for LUV.
and in 1499 he pushes it even further.

Impoetic also looks bad in what I've quoted.

SSBM I'd like to know what you were theorising in 1441, if you can remember.

VOTE: Gerry

Spoiler:

Well he was obvious town. I'm guessing he used his BP shot, but mafia has a strongman it seems like.

Well he was obvious town. I'm guessing he used his BP shot, but mafia has a strongman it seems like.

Why would you guess that?

I'm going to wait for Gerry here. I second TTTTs opinion, town should wait for Gerry to put something out there. There a reason I'm not on LUV yet but I'm not going to give Gerry anything to latch onto from me

well hey that was obvious and cool

What is "that"?

Okay wait I don't think I ever absorbed who D7 was. Sorry for the dumb question, but who is that? Or do you mean like, when it hits 7 people or something? :s

predit: sorry oops, that was unclear. Transcend was obvious town and an obvious kill (in reference to the flip) and cool as in we lynched mafia. I only checked transcend's actual role after people brought it up so i didn't see he was a JOAT immediately.

actually i'm not entirely sure what the obvious was directed at it might not have been transcend given my next sentence

i assume i said it on autopilot. I didn't really remember anything about RB, and though i thought his reaction was bad, titus resisting it made me pretty indifferent to that lynch, so i would hope i wasn't referring to that.

As far as LUV goes part of my thoughts on him involve a PR theory and it's too early to discuss that today imo. Its also an assumption about the setup and would point fingers at potential town PRs so I will not discuss this part of my theory until those potential PRs claim naturally. I still stand by the team associations I've been talking about for a while, but I'm not sure if I ever quoted them and I'm also not sure if it was more of a mutual thing or if it was rb trying to make LUV look like LUV was a scum buddy. If it was the latter it would be a ploy to take a town with him but LUVs actions towards the end of the rb wagon look like a panicked scum. I think he ditched the wagon because he thought that one of the counter wagons was going to gain traction, but it never did. I'm surprised he didn't hammer rb to try to gain some points back though. I'm going to be focused on another game first tonight but I may bring up a case on LUV and where he's associated with rb if it's not already in my ISO after that game.

Gerry's activity is disappointing but in my limited experience this is his town game. I don't tr him though because I don't know his scum game and they may be similar, and his low activity is not pro-town. I also don't place much stock in secondhand meta in general and that's most of my Gerry experience.

I dislike his scumreads because one of them was pushing a counter wagon to scum on the other yesterday, and the other is one of my own top TRs. His fos on that player (TTTT) also looks somewhat retaliatory.

My reads are all messed up right now but I'm pretty confident in Kyouko, Sesq, and Shannon for town.

Explain, please.

I like a lot of the effort that Kyouko is putting in to solving the game. It could be faked but I don't get that from him. He seems to be considering every and any angle, investigating and reevaluating as much as he can, and following up with actual cases that force everyone to engage with him and the game itself.

You still read quite new to me and I don't see any scum intent in your posts.

I've been informed that Shannon didn't go anywhere last night and while that doesn't confirm anything, it makes me a feel whole lot better about my meta read on her.

^ To clarify, it is not passive and required manual activation, as per the wording in the role.

Could the bp be roleblocked?

Why would they roleblock and kill the same person, that's dumb. I don't understand why it's so hard to believe they might have strongman.

if someone else is an investigation role, I say we lynch LUV cause I don't see 2 inv roles for town this game.

Calling BS on having a 1 shot Tracker when we already have a Joat. Also you didn't need to even claim, you only claimed so a lynch wouldnt form on you after he flipped scum.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

@Titus
play a game with me?
imagine you are scum with LUV
for [reasons] you agree in the PT that he should fakeclaim to avoid a lynch today.
What role do you advise LUV should fakeclaim given what is known about the game at this point?

I'm assuming it wouldn't be 1-shot tracker, given there is a flipped JOAT, right?

@Titus, TTTT, and the rest of the final 6 voting rb with me - What do you guys think about ironstove and drone voting for gerry yesterday with TTTT? We know rb is scum so since the Gerry wagon was the next-largest there was probably a scum trying to counterwagon him there.

I have mixed feelings on this.
on the one hand, maybe they thought the gerry-wagon had a chance
on the other, I kinda find it worse that LUV jumped off the rb wagon and stayed off the counter-wagon, like he knew rb would flip scum and that then the counter-wagon would look bad.
there's no doubt I was baiting scum to push a counter-wagon in the event rb was scum.
at the time I thought the lack of momentum on gerry indicated he was scum, too
but it was pretty obvious what I was doing (at least to scum who knows my alignment) so it seems just as likely that they just stayed off both wagons or bused rb.
all ^this to say... I dunno.

No one wants to lynch D7/Impoetic so I'm forced to compromise.

why did you not track one of your 2 scumreads?You scumread them so much that you felt that you'd have to 'compromise' to vote someone else. @Lil Uzi Vert

[shannon]

You know that me not voting rb was what sparked the neighbourhood force outing?
Remember how Kyouko did when Titus headbutted me?

Sorry no I don't remember. Anyway, move on, I think Gerry is a better option. Just looking at that D2 play and the way he got rid of LUV after LUV claimed a PR ... Shifty AF

[Raskolnikov]

Kyouko's been my strongest townread since I got here.

I don't agree with him on everything but he's probably the only player who I can follow the read progression of without any problems.

Everything he says he either explains why in explicit detail directly or it makes sense with his other thoughts in ISO.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: TTTT

I'll settle on this if nothing else.

I don't know one reason to townread TTTT.

On ISO I can't find the reasoning behind pretty much anything he does; he expresses reads but I don't know the basis behind any of them.

[Raskolnikov]

Titus read seems to be for the just the no-result? That's okay but he hasn't really tried to look or analyse beyond that

I feel like when shadonra replaced too he just shaded him instantly rather than try to read him? Shad's response to not having a strong meta read on him made sense so I don't see the issue there.

[Raskolnikov]

Gerryoat was d1 counterwagon to scum and essentially a lurker lynch.

I've played with him before and the problems people have with him seem to be EMer tendencies

Not a strong read at all but I think we could do better.

[TTTT]

Okay.
Drealm flipped town and read me town.
So did Transcend, and Uzi (was he?) .
What's next?

So, why are you voting me then TTTT?

You were not TR'd by everyone who's flipped green.
I'm not voting you.
Are you even trying?

[Drone]

Okay.
Drealm flipped town and read me town.
So did Transcend, and Uzi (was he?) .
What's next?

So, why are you voting me then TTTT?

You were not TR'd by everyone who's flipped green.
I'm not voting you.
Are you even trying?

Apology.
I guess I imagined it.
But Titus vote is also bad.

Now, about the TR's;
I clearly questioned my own statement with Uzi's read on me.

Drealm and Transcend did though.

Anyway.
I have some time to think. I just hope we can get to an agreement.

[Titus]

I am not voting TTT or Gerryoat.

Gerry is confirmed town practically. TTT is obvtown. Rask is obvtown.

It's almost certainly SSM and Shad.

I'd compromise on Sesq or Shannon but my compromise window on those is closing rapidly.

I do not care if we no lynch. I refuse to vote a townread.

Drone is towning it up and the only reasons forgo

[Titus]

The discredit mode is insane.

You want to nitpick my methods? Fine. Actually put forth how you can actually townread SSM or Shad. Or vote them. My methods are not the most traditional, but I am good at this game.

[Titus]

VOTE: TTTT

I'll settle on this if nothing else.

I don't know one reason to townread TTTT.

On ISO I can't find the reasoning behind pretty much anything he does; he expresses reads but I don't know the basis behind any of them.

This is why ISO without context is bad. Stop playstyle lynching. If you're at that point, sheep me.

[TTTT]

I do not at all get the push on ssbm
I TR ssbm based on game-solving attempts and transparency
also all the flipped town TR'd ssbm
I will no-lynch before I lynch ssbm

[TTTT]

Oh,
@Drone - Did you talk to rabbit in your private chat day 1 at all? What did you say there?

@Drone
I don't think you ever answered the second part of this.

[TTTT]

I feel like when shadonra replaced too he just shaded him instantly rather than try to read him? Shad's response to not having a strong meta read on him made sense so I don't see the issue there.

I made 80 scum posts in that game after replacing in
shad was my partner
shad said he followed along to this game since day1
when ssbm asked for a read on me shad said...

I did not get a good read on TTTT in the game he replaced into. There was pretty much one interaction before the game ended.

how does town not share anything there?

[Titus]

I do not at all get the push on ssbm
I TR ssbm based on game-solving attempts and transparency
also all the flipped town TR'd ssbm
I will no-lynch before I lynch ssbm

This shitty play is why TTT is town or scum with SSM. SSM isn't gamesolving, but TTT refusing to vote the counter anyway is pretty fucking obvtown.

Doesn't change the fact "they might not be neighbors" isn't solving and SSM has no SRs by play or that SSM is just flailing to lynch in TTT/Drone/Gerry/Titus/Rask.

[Titus]

I feel like when shadonra replaced too he just shaded him instantly rather than try to read him? Shad's response to not having a strong meta read on him made sense so I don't see the issue there.

I made 80 scum posts in that game after replacing in
shad was my partner
shad said he followed along to this game since day1
when ssbm asked for a read on me shad said...

I did not get a good read on TTTT in the game he replaced into. There was pretty much one interaction before the game ended.

how does town not share anything there?

Then vote Shad.

We need to agree on a decent wagon since SSM and Shad will not vote each other.

[Drone]

I did so much earlier. Like when I first outed the neighbourhood.
You just didn't read apparently.

[Drone]

@TTTT

[TTTT]

I did so much earlier. Like when I first outed the neighbourhood.
You just didn't read apparently.

So this is it?

It was more like, first each of us does something then they inform the other of what and why they did what they did.

For example, Fluffy attacks Transcend, then I question him in the neighbourhood, and then he elaborates.
Or your case, he was first to go at you, then I voted you and explained my own reason to vote you.
And so on and so on.

Nothing else of interest?

[TTTT]

Gerry is confirmed town practically.

plz explain "confirmed town practically"

[Drone]

Yeah it wasn't really anything exciting.
If anything major would have happened and I left it out, Titus wouldn't have been keeping silent about it this long.