Micro 673: Bee Movie Mafia (Game Over)

[Nitroglycerin]

i'm pushing a lynch on scum!Creature and attempting to engage someone who nullreads me and townreads creature about that read

which is far more than disagreeing with everything you're saying

[Dunnstral]

doc on me

[GuiltyLion]

hello hello

I don't really see how that's a different question or what I asked is leading...?

Voting for you at that point is an empty vote at that time, while I think the other two options had posted enough content to develop an opinion of them...

i'm assuming that people are making what they feel is the best vote unless they say otherwise... Correct me if I'm wrong but that's a totally normal assumption?? but basically why make an empty vote if there's already AI content? i think that's a completely valid question

plus all you posted was a confirm so i'm not really sure why someone would make a non-rvs vote on you at that stage

it's basically how you assumed that it wasn't an RVS vote that I have a problem with. Like I just looked at it - a vote on me, mind you - and assumed it was RVS because I had only posted a confirm. Further, poking on someone "for making an RVS vote when we're past RVS" seems like the classic easy/shallow hook into the game that scum would want to use in order to look town.

@Everyone, I have 4 townreads so this game is basically won

ew @this as well

[GuiltyLion]

like some people "got serious" (me) while others are still random voting (Maxous, Beeboy). i disagree that not everyone posted btw, but not everyone is really in a non-RVS mindset yet

like here now you're making a new assumption that maxous is random voting, so clearly in your head his GL vote was random too, which renders your original question kinda pointless

[Nitroglycerin]

it's basically how you assumed that it wasn't an RVS vote that I have a problem with. Like I just looked at it - a vote on me, mind you - and assumed it was RVS because I had only posted a confirm. Further, poking on someone "for making an RVS vote when we're past RVS" seems like the classic easy/shallow hook into the game that scum would want to use in order to look town.

but that's what i'm saying

you're assuming i thought max's vote wasn't RVS when I believed it was and i'm not sure how you made that mental jump?

the second point is valid but i was more interested in seeing if he was townreading dunn or creature rather than make him look scummy

like some people "got serious" (me) while others are still random voting (Maxous, Beeboy). i disagree that not everyone posted btw, but not everyone is really in a non-RVS mindset yet

like here now you're making a new assumption that maxous is random voting, so clearly in your head his GL vote was random too, which renders your original question kinda pointless

Not really?

I think my response to the above quote clarifies this but if not I'll try to explain again.

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: ThinkBig

I actually didn't like Beeboy's reaction all that much, it's cute n' brings out something rather genuine but a ThinkBig going so aggressively is something I'd like to hear everyone commenting on.

I like beeboy's points against ThinkBig, agree with them myself

P-EDIT: I didn't make the mental jump, you expressed it in your post. "Why is Guilty a

better

vote" implies that Max had kind of reasoning behind his vote, putting words in his mouth, that's why I called it a leading question

[Nitroglycerin]

P-EDIT: I didn't make the mental jump, you expressed it in your post. "Why is Guilty a better vote" implies that Max had kind of reasoning behind his vote, putting words in his mouth, that's why I called it a leading question

Is it a bad assumption to make that people will always make the best vote from their vantage point?

like

there

are

circumstances where i would think a naked/empty/rvs vote IS the best vote to make, such as having townreads on everyone that posted or wanting to get a read on someone who hasn't posted yet.

just because a vote is meaningless doesn't mean it can't be a better vote than another vote... does that make sense?

[GuiltyLion]

oh fuck i just slipped my read on guilty which is why i didn't want to give a readlist zzzzzz

so yeah i'll go in-depth here since i'm no longer in class

{Max, Drone} - Town
{HS, Beeboy, TB} - Townlean
{GuiltyLion, Dunnstral} - Scumlean
{Creature} - Scum

Spoiler: Explanations since i got verbose :dead:

Max just straight up has good tone and is voting my top scumread out of his own volition. Not a complicated read. 124 was kind of derpy for his join date imo but I don't think that's scummy

Drone's questions are pretty legit so far. I liked the second question in #93, like it was kind of generic but the "in your own eyes" part I think shows that he's trying to make TB hone in on something actually AI and analyze something. 94 was a good catch too and the way Drone asked about it didn't read as though he was trying to dig shit up on TB to make him look bad. I also felt like he was trying to figure me out in our conversation. Plus I had a moonlogic townread on him for putting a period at the end of his confirmation

HS has good tone and the way they've been posting feels natural. I liked the timing of their RVS post for example, though I'm taking into account that Shadow says that's within their scum range and I honestly believe it. That and the fact that I feel disconnected to all of their reads though are stopping them from being a stronger tr

Beeboy I talked about basically, the nonchalantness of his Dunn vote I also liked but it's probably within his range as scum

TB had a really obvtown entrance. Like I don't think scum would have thought "Oh I got my role PM? Better post in the thread and vote!" since they have a PT to talk in, especially without a daystart PM or the mod posting something about a confirmation phase. Plus the eagerness of that post meshes with that interpretation. He really just needs to post thoughts beyond "Naked votes are scummy" for me to double down on (or reject) that read.

GL's vote was kind of shit... I played with GL before and I know he uses linguistics to scumhunt and so I know it's a valid method. maybe i'm in a biased position since i know shadow and I are town but here it felt kind of reachy and I already addressed why I didn't think the read made much sense anyway. Also the fact that he didn't engage with anything else in thread looks like scum making what looks like well-thought out analysis but not really doing anything with it...? it just feels incomplete. Plus I really doubt that town scumreading this slot ignores Shadow's knee-jerk reaction to HS's question directed at me, it's something I'd be weary about if I were in another town slot.

Dunn I've already explained

Creature's most likely playing to his scum meta here. His confirmation posts were bad (19 was something pretty obvious and 20 felt really forced in context) and felt like he was just trying to inflate his post count after I made a (scientifically inaccurate btw that's not how statistics work at all) post about his tell. feels self-concious. 134 also felt like Creature forgot how his thought process as town works. like there's no brute forcing "well which townreads work? let's cross them off", he just went straight to "well let's pick a random suspect and see how it works out." just doesn't feel like the way i've seen the gears turn in creature's head in the past. basically creature here seems more interested in inflating his post count rather than scumhunting and letting it go up naturally

@HS, I know you've meta'd Creature for that Newbie since I watched it, so what do you think of my read on him? Do you at least see where I'm coming from?

@TB, even though I already gave you my perspective I still would like to see if you concur or disagree. I emphasize that I mean concur because I'm hoping to see what unique viewpoint you bring since "Yeah pretty much what you said" doesn't help. If that's the truth then it is what it is but i'd just like to confirm my gutread on you

@Drone,

I don't remember this level of early-game tryhard from town!you in Mystery Box. Like your section on me is a paragraph that literally reduces down to OMGUS. Also a lot of over-explaining townreads, I feel like that is much more likely to be buddying than it is useful content for later this game.

[GuiltyLion]

Is it a bad assumption to make that people will always make the best vote from their vantage point?

bad? I dunno. scummy? yes. Like I don't want to get bogged down into a huge argument over the logical validity of this, the simple fact of the matter is I didn't like the way you made this assumption about Maxuous making the "best vote" or whatever and then used that to ask him a question. feels forced, feels unnatural.

Dunn I like the bee puns, keep it up

[Nitroglycerin]

I don't remember this level of early-game tryhard from town!you in Mystery Box.

tbf that was just an off-game for me and a bad time. same with family mafia

i'm normally more like this when i'm in a shitposty/hyperposting mood. i guess the closest i've been this try-hardy is my newbie (1718) but it's been a while since i've had a wind like this

i think OMGUS can be a valid reason to scumread someone... if a push on you is shit why not push on it? i've caught scum that way too

honestly though your last few posts have been ok so i'm not really sure where i'm wrong

still pretty sure this is scum!creature though

Is it a bad assumption to make that people will always make the best vote from their vantage point?

bad? I dunno. scummy? yes. Like I don't want to get bogged down into a huge argument over the logical validity of this, the simple fact of the matter is I didn't like the way you made this assumption about Maxuous making the "best vote" or whatever and then used that to ask him a question. feels forced, feels unnatural.

Dunn I like the bee puns, keep it up

fair enough then :/

[Aeronaut]

- VoteCount 1.4 -

With 9 players still alive, it's 5 to lynch!

- Barry?
- Adam?

[L-5]

Human Sequencer -

[L-4]

Maxous -

ThinkBig

[L-5]

GuiltyLion -

[L-3]

ThinkBig -

Beeboy, Drone

[L-5]

beeboy -

[L-3]

Creature -

Maxous, Nitroglycerin

[L-3]

Drone -

Creature, Human Sequencer

[L-3]

Nitroglycerin -

GuiltyLion, Dunnstral

[L-5]

Dunnstral -

Just Buzzing

-

<3

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-16 15:00:00)

[Drone]

- VoteCount 1.3 -

With 9 players still alive, it's 5 to lynch!

Hang on a second.
Hello?

[L-5]

Human Sequencer -

[L-4]

Maxous -

ThinkBig

[L-5]

GuiltyLion -

[L-3]

ThinkBig -

Beeboy, Drone

[L-5]

beeboy -

[L-3]

Creature -

Maxous, Nitroglycerin

[L-3]

Drone -

Creature, Human Sequencer

[L-3]

Nitroglycerin -

GuiltyLion, Dunnstral

[L-5]

Dunnstral -

Just Buzzing

-

<3

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-01-17 15:00:00)

[Drone]

This one's id like to save.
I'm working on my VCA skills as I basically don't have any.
Quoting it to have it in my ISO for my comfort.

@Nitroglycerin
The wagon completely died.
There were towny votes, but I have to review one thing before I state something a bit outrageous.

One thing I know, your vote and Human Sequencer votes (he's the second vote, AFAIR.)
Are in place and I have a town lean on HS too.
Let's see now;

[Drone]

VOTE: Dunnstral

Let's see.
Beeboy's vote came in some time after Dunnstral reached L-2.
It doesn't look like a scummy vote, it shouldn't be taken as one.
We didn't hear any "I didn't know he was wagoned so hard".
The vote was intentional in the manner it came in.

[Nitroglycerin]

I state something a bit outrageous.

?

agreed that beeboy's dunn vote was townie and i guess the reasons you have it as so are valid too

let's kill creature today yeah?

[Nitroglycerin]

honestly i think my issue with GL's initial post was more like

the minimalism behind it? rather than the reasoning behind the vote. i mean obviously i know it's a wrong vote and i can see just like a linguistic dissonance in how GL and I communicate/view Mafia theory affecting how town!GL views me but like i feel like he's walking on eggshells here if that makes sense.

just shocked that it engaged with so little. as town joining in late i probably would have dug up more on my scumread and that's why i'm still surprised (and kind of peeved) that there's no commentary on Shadow's posting on here. i'd like to know why you haven't said anything about it GL.

either way i'm not going to really entertain a lynch on Dunn/GL today because i think strongarming creature first is the better play here

[Dunnstral]

No.

ok Drone I'm ready

[Dunnstral]

either way i'm not going to really entertain a lynch on Dunn/GL today because i think strongarming creature first is the better play here

And why is that?

Funny how I'm randomly in your scummo pool even though I haven't done anything that could be construed as suspicious

[Nitroglycerin]

either way i'm not going to really entertain a lynch on Dunn/GL today because i think strongarming creature first is the better play here

And why is that?

Funny how I'm randomly in your scummo pool even though I haven't done anything that could be construed as suspicious

because he's obvious scum and forcing his partner to be in the awkward position of deciding whether or not to bus D1 in a micro is probably smarter play than trying to lynch the scum that makes endgame first since I could be wrong on both of you (GL and you)

also you're not randomly in my scumpool lmfao but OK dude. if it makes you feel better i can just say i'm not townreading you

you just don't feel as genuine here but that could be my dunnanoia working here

what do you think of my points on GL (work on this with the assumption we're town :death: )

[Nitroglycerin]

creature only has 5.7% of posts in the thread rn

which is basically 2 standard deviations below his average as town

even the numbers show that his engagement in thread is pretty low compared to normal

#ScumhuntingWithStatistics

[Dunnstral]

It's too early to be using that. You forcing that as the games just started only hurts your case. There's a reason you'd want to come out with it instantly, however.

[Dunnstral]

you just don't feel as genuine here

Compared to?

but that could be my dunnanoia working here

I don't think you've ever doubted me before.

[Dunnstral]

creature only has 5.7% of posts in the thread rn

Doesn't help that I multipost and you... well you fluff it up let's say. Maybe 5 posts worth of content

[Creature]

Ever checked my average position?

[Nitroglycerin]

It's too early to be using that. You forcing that as the games just started only hurts your case. There's a reason you'd want to come out with it instantly, however.

i think creature would want engage more with the thread this early on yeah

i voted for you first for basically that reason though and i'm not really happy with the direction he's going

you just don't feel as genuine here

Compared to?

but that could be my dunnanoia working here

I don't think you've ever doubted me before.

649, where I did doubt you actually

and yeah you have a point that we're both hyperposters but like statistics account for variation like that. we're still at the point where creature has a 2% chance of being town with that logic due to natural variation and stuff

do you have a reason to think creature is town besides the fact i'm pushing him btw