Large Normal 200 - Big Round Numbers - Game Over

[Pine]

Back home from my thing the last two days, but it's 430 AM, and I don't have an hour to meaningfully engage this thread. I'll be here in the morning.

[Creature]

Let's not let this prod-dodger get away.

VOTE: SlickDinger

[rb]

10 townpoints to whoever can figure out what i don't like about creature

[Dunnstral]

His avi

[Dunnstral]

The fact that he's too towny to lynch?

[rb]

The fact that he's too towny to lynch?

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Creature]

Is it bad I want all of of All Alone, Gamma Emerald, SlickDinger and drealmerz7 dead before Day 3?

[rb]

i guess

[All Alone]

First off you said he was Green, how do you know his slot is green? There should be no actual basis for you to have any read on him, granted I know the counter argument is that I voted for him when he didn't post anything but honestly, mine is justifiable in consideration that:
1) We got a role PM with game thread attached
2) WE HAD TO CONFIRM OUR ROLE via PM
3) We got a PM saying the game started-

scratch all that, he's back to NAI. I was going to make point 4 be how he was on when the game started but he was gone from Dec 31st to the 2nd of Jan and the game started the 1st.

Regardless, I still want to ask you how you got a green read on gamma?

Damn, that's a detective-ass question. I'm reading this question and I can immediately sense that you're wearing a deerstalker. You are undoubtedly awaiting my reply with magnifying glass in hand. Your sidekick wants to help you out, but valiantly respects the prohibition of hydras in normal. Your pipe is packed. With cocaine, naturally.

But despite the many similarities between you and Sherlock Holmes, there's one huge advantage you hold over him, and that's access to image search. I want you go to your favorite image search and type in "emerald", and see if you can't solve the mystery as to why I referred to Gamma Emerald as "Green Gem Man".

[All Alone]

While you're at it, don't forget why you decided to just naked vote throughout the game. Make sure to not accuse me of not explaining my reads as clear and concise as we want them to be when you literally offer no actual explanation as to why you vote, or unvote.

Second!

VOTE: Creature

VOTE: Gin

VOTE: rb

I agree with zachstralkita

there

there's my opinion on rb

try and analyze it

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ircher

UNVOTE:

good lord people can we all stop doing "reaction tests" forever

because now I, for the third fuckin time since I woke up today, have to figure out where I want my vote, AND IT'S PISSING ME OFF

Creature was RVS, you were gut-RVS, rb was sheep, Ircher was sheep

There's not really any depth to these votes, and I'm not going to sit there and pretend otherwise. Doesn't mean I'm not going to cast them if I think it's the best place to put my vote

[All Alone]

Last question for AA for the night.

Why is it that the only player you've commented on is myself?

You can say this is a tactic trying to get you to focus on other players but me but I only find it scum motivated to target one player and not talk about literally anyone else.

because I don't care about the other slots right now

Last thing that struck my mind is were you trying to add emphasis to your scum read on me. You said I think THE GIN AND TONIC is scum.

You've correctly addressed me as Gin (which I prefer thank you) when you first voted me and then when you explain your reads you say it correctly so you saying that was deliberate. I believe it to be a subliminal trick to make anyone that reads it think your post has a higher level of importance; because we you all cap something and the rest is normal, it sticks out like a sore thumb. When you conclude soon after the attention grabber by saying scum, it makes the readers mind read everything in a pretense of scum being the correct answer and it allows the accuser to sway the opinion using subtly.

Okay, first of all, I write the introduction to my post in the style of Kain Tepes and your conclusion is that I'm going for

subtlety

? Uhhhhh.... you might be a little bit off there.

And, honestly, wtf is the point of this? Are you seriously suggesting that caps lock is a manipulative scum tell? I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of it, and I really don't see the town motive for making stupid ass points like this.

[All Alone]

Hi have a good idea! Why don't we flashwagon this?
VOTE: SlickDilinger
Or someone can do a meta dive real quick, either work for me.

I'm the ninth person you've laid a vote against on day one.

I call this Discrediting Instead of Analysis

SlickDilinger can go in my scumpile as well, I really don't see the protown motive for a post like this.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

First off you said he was Green, how do you know his slot is green? There should be no actual basis for you to have any read on him, granted I know the counter argument is that I voted for him when he didn't post anything but honestly, mine is justifiable in consideration that:
1) We got a role PM with game thread attached
2) WE HAD TO CONFIRM OUR ROLE via PM
3) We got a PM saying the game started-

scratch all that, he's back to NAI. I was going to make point 4 be how he was on when the game started but he was gone from Dec 31st to the 2nd of Jan and the game started the 1st.

Regardless, I still want to ask you how you got a green read on gamma?

Damn, that's a detective-ass question. I'm reading this question and I can immediately sense that you're wearing a deerstalker. You are undoubtedly awaiting my reply with magnifying glass in hand. Your sidekick wants to help you out, but valiantly respects the prohibition of hydras in normal. Your pipe is packed. With cocaine, naturally.

But despite the many similarities between you and Sherlock Holmes, there's one huge advantage you hold over him, and that's access to image search. I want you go to your favorite image search and type in "emerald", and see if you can't solve the mystery as to why I referred to Gamma Emerald as "Green Gem Man".

I want to cry

[Zachstralkita]

^Scum pushing lynchbait^

Does your opinion change if we ignore his push on you?

Could you explain the purpose of this question a bit more for me? Something feels odd about it and I'm trying to figure out if it's just me being silly.

Alisae strikes me as the type of person that is fine with scumreading those who scumread him, regardless of the merit their posts may actually have. It seems evident with drealmerz, that's why I asked.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Last question for AA for the night.

Why is it that the only player you've commented on is myself?

You can say this is a tactic trying to get you to focus on other players but me but I only find it scum motivated to target one player and not talk about literally anyone else.

because I don't care about the other slots right now

Last thing that struck my mind is were you trying to add emphasis to your scum read on me. You said I think THE GIN AND TONIC is scum.

You've correctly addressed me as Gin (which I prefer thank you) when you first voted me and then when you explain your reads you say it correctly so you saying that was deliberate. I believe it to be a subliminal trick to make anyone that reads it think your post has a higher level of importance; because we you all cap something and the rest is normal, it sticks out like a sore thumb. When you conclude soon after the attention grabber by saying scum, it makes the readers mind read everything in a pretense of scum being the correct answer and it allows the accuser to sway the opinion using subtly.

Okay, first of all, I write the introduction to my post in the style of Kain Tepes and your conclusion is that I'm going for

subtlety

? Uhhhhh.... you might be a little bit off there.

And, honestly, wtf is the point of this? Are you seriously suggesting that caps lock is a manipulative scum tell? I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of it, and I really don't see the town motive for making stupid ass points like this.

Why don't you care about anyone else? I would love your reads on the town, if you have any.

Word choice and sentence structure is actually really revealing but I can't do huge analysis of a persons ISO until we've had multiple flips.

If I'm being honest, I feel like I'm starting to tunnel you and Im actually going to agree that any further arguing is arguing for the sake of it. Sorry not sorry but I can't get a full read on you based on your opinion of just one player

[Lil Uzi Vert]

1068 made me laugh out loud honestly. I like it a lot because while it's not the best response to a vote coming from someone who's prod-dodging, it's not terrible what I think he's implying, because throwing your vote around with such frequency makes it lose value in my opinion. Which makes pressuring ineffective if someone knows you're not the kind of person to let your vote stew.

It's definitely not enough though for me to give him another pass and his entrances into the game have not sat well with me. He also seems to be doing quite a bit of note taking and since I'm feeling a little better about AA's alignment after his more recent posts, this is the next lurker I want to sort.

VOTE: Dinger

--

Something still feels off about AA but I like the effort he seems to be putting into this Gin case and 1083 feels really genuine.

The problem I'm having with their back and forth is that I can see both sides because it's basically AA arguing that Gin is scum because he didn't explain what in his reread gave him a TR on Alisae while Gin is arguing that it was obviously implied and that if it wasn't clear, he'll explain later. I'm leaning toward AA's side here more though. I understand real life gets in the way and one may not have the time to quote every single one of Alisae's post from the early game to explain a TR but something should've definitely been attempted in regards to the step 4.

I'm going to wait until the weekend for a explanation from Gin because I honestly don't believe he faked those reads.

[Zachstralkita]

^Scum pushing lynchbait^

Does your opinion change if we ignore his push on you?

Could you explain the purpose of this question a bit more for me? Something feels odd about it and I'm trying to figure out if it's just me being silly.

Alisae strikes me as the type of person that is fine with scumreading those who scumread him, regardless of the merit their posts may actually have. It seems evident with drealmerz, that's why I asked.

To clarify here, I feel like Alisae does not value whatever actual valid content they may have in light of the scumread on him and possibly does not get that a perspective difference and observing of the facts differently could cause someone to scumread him, opting to believe that only scum would push blatant town like he is. It's partially why I townread him.

[Wraith]

Catching up again. I skimmed earlier and got a decent idea of what's happened. This will be another stream-of-consciousness post.

* I echo Dunnstral's sentiments in #810 on Creature's #799. Just saying "I've got a gut feeling" doesn't really tell the rest of us a whole lot. Please cite specific posts that give you this feeling. Or failing that, please just try to elaborate on how you've come to this "gut feeling."
* At first I didn't agree with the flashwagon on All Alone purely for returning from lurking and voting with no comment. Even when he continued doing that, I felt that it was a red herring - if he was scum and that was all he was going to do, he was playing the stupidest possible scum game I've ever seen. WIFOM aside, I'm just not buying that he takes that risk. This flashwagon felt rather scum-motivated to me, and I feel there was at least one, maybe more, scum who jumped on this opportunity among those who joined it - Dunnstral, Creature, Alisae, Echo. EDIT: The second flashwagon on him, forming after his Ircher vote, is much more justifiable and null IMO
* I also echo Grey's sentiments in #824 on Alisae's #822, and this is yet another instance on the pile of what I feel is completely empty, insincere fake scumhunting by Alisae. I really don't know why the wagon on Alisae has derailed because they've done nothing to dispel any of the problems people including myself have had with them. I'm going to outline everything I have against Alisae all at once either at the end of this post or in a second one immediately after it
* Ircher's #832 is nonsense. "Self-aware lynchbait" is practically synonymous with "scum trying to fake being VI"
* Ircher's #837 is a serious stretch and is probably the first thing that's come up that makes me doubt my townread of him. So far.
* It's annoying that I now know rb is confirmed town because although it means I can trust his word retroactively it also means he was deliberately half-assing it or playing like shit on purpose in order to lure scum votes or something. Which backfired entirely because practically half the playerbase put down votes on him before he was forced to reveal his role.
* I honestly don't know why everyone suddenly shifted to Pine after rb was revealed to be IC, so I'm going to have to re-read his ISO after this. It doesn't help that no one has bothered to explain why they turned on him and to my memory freaking Alisae was the only one who made accusations against him earlier.
* Ircher asking for a breadcrumb and then freaking voting for rb after a mod confirmation is incredibly stupid and served no other meaningful purpose than to give out free reasons for scum to point fingers at him and get away with it. Again, like All Alone's content-less votes this is an action so reckless and short-sighted that I don't think it is actually scum-motivated. EDIT: Uzi on the same page with me in his #903.
* FINALLY someone delivers a justification for their shift to Pine. Thank you Kyouko, now I have something to look for when reading Pine's ISO.
* Those votes by Alisae (yet a-fucking-gain) and All Alone in #912 and #914 on Ircher were incredibly scummy and opportunistic. Also rofl @ Creature's #915
* SMH at Alisae's #933. When I do my compilation of everything I have against Alisae I'm going to bring up the vote patterns. They're wishy-washy and opportunistic as hell.
* All Alone's #968 holds no weight because he's never bothered to explain how he decided to place his earlier votes in the first place
* Grey's #999 - mate, you need to stop dwelling on a statement I already clarified, where I promised to re-read and then when I did so placed my vote somewhere else entirely because of new information
* I don't agree with AA's Gin vote in #1001 but he at least explains his reasoning behind it. A lot of other players could do with following his lead in this case
* I think HS's #1007 is rather scummy. It's misinterpreting Creature's #793 in a way I feel is deliberate. I don't think it's a smart idea at all to lynch a lurker D1. A flip of a player who has interacted with no one and contributed nothing gives us little to nothing to go on in light of a flip.
* Creature seems rather preoccupied with pushing lurkers. Nevertheless agree with his push on GE at the time since it did get results after all.
* Count GE's #1026 as another "omg so many pages gosh" reaction that Alisae probably won't view as a towntell for someone (EDIT: NOPE). Apparently Echo is the only one who gets this special treatment from Alisae, how interesting.
* Oh boy here it starts. I'm just going to say this now: When dreal gets excitable or stressed, his posting style gets

extremely

grating and difficult to read, like word/formatting/punctuation vomit. If it gets bad enough I might start ignoring his posts entirely.
* #1049 Yeah I wonder why you're saying this Alisae. Oh wait.
* Zach my man with #1051
* Alisae's #1067 JFC kill it with fire. And in response to their #1069, Slick's point is that your wishy-washy voting shows a lack of real conviction and a propensity for blowing with the wind, which combined with your instances of fake scumhunting that I've pointed out in the past is just ridiculously scummy
* Okay, this is getting ridiculous. Creature's #1076 pushes him into the Soft Scumread pile for now. I get not liking lurkers and prod-dodgers, but at the same time there's no real case for voting most of these people outside of the lurking and again, a lurker flip D1 would give us nothing in terms of context or interactions. With his #1081, he is at least self-aware about this, which weakens my slight scumread of him.
* All Alone's #1084 JFC dude
* All Alone has a point in his #1086, even though I agree with the post AA is dumping on. It would have helped if Slick had spelled it out

I'm going to lay out a reads list in a different style, going down the player list and giving individual reads and why:

1. rb - CONFTOWN, obviously. Please stop shitposting/half-assing it and make better contributions, please.
2. Alisae - Top SCUMREAD. I'll lay out all the specifics together in my next post.
3. ssbm_Kyouko - NEUTRAL. I appreciate that she actually gave out her reason for voting Pine but I don't have much on him at the moment. I'd probably need to review his ISO but I need a break soon.
4. TheRealGin-N-Tonic - TOWNREAD. One of the town's consistent voices of reason IMO.
5. Lil Uzi Vert - NEUTRAL. No offense but he's practically been a complete non-entity to me. I guess the most I can say for him is that I feel we're on a similar page?
6. Gamma Emerald - MURKY. Has done nothing since returning from a long spat of lurking. Come on, man.
7. Zachstralkita - TOWNREAD. Generally speaks sense, and it's a good sign that I perceive him as the type of player who can say a lot with a little.
8. Creature - SOFT SCUMREAD. If only because the most memorable thing I can say about him at this point is that he has a hard-on for lurker lynches. I don't really know how to gauge him at this point because the majority of his activity is one-liners or extremely vague, confusing statements.
9. drealmerz7 - NEUTRAL. Same old, same old.
10. Ircher - SOFT TOWNREAD. Some of his recent activity has been WTF but his actions are so reckless and draw so much attention that I feel they're largely town-motivated. Strikes me as a townie who will act first and think later, which is nevertheless a really dangerous type of player to the town.
11. Pine - MURKY. Need to review this ISO later before I make a concrete judgment.
12. Human Sequencer - SOFT SCUMREAD. His #1007 was enough to push him into this category from town-leaning neutral.
13. -Grey- - TOWNREAD. Another voice of reason, even though his tunnel vision on me is annoying.
14. SlickDilinger - MURKY. Hasn't done much since returning from lurking. Even though I agree with his sentiments in #1069, I also agree with the sentiments of AA's #1086. Which seems contradictory but trust me it makes sense in my head. I think. I just think Slick didn't elaborate enough on the point he was trying to make.
15. Debi - MURKY. Seems to have disappeared.
16. EchoVision - SOFT TOWNREAD. I've generally agreed with his earlier posts but some of his recent votes are questionable IMO. And Alisae's very unusual TRing him and only him for expressing frustration at rapid thread growth is very unusual.
17. Dunnstral - MURKY. His posts are all over the place in terms of rationality. Sometimes I nod my head approvingly and other times I sigh and facepalm.
18. All Alone - SOFT TOWNREAD. Like Ircher I think his playstyle has been too overtly reckless to be scum-motivated. While several of his posts (#968, #1084) set off alarm bells I'm trusting my gut here for now.

I'll compile the Alisae stuff next.

[Alisae]

Wraith, post a tl;dr on why I'm scum please?

[Alisae]

Oh wait, I scumread you too.
You're still welcome to do so tho

[Human Sequencer]

Yknow I really gotta disagree with you there, Wraith. We have oodles of information to comb over already, and every fucking scumread I have disappears into 'eh kinda null'. Alisae is doing this now as I iso her, despite her still being a valid lynch in my eyes. Large games are fucking hard and I need to learn how to adapt to them.

How many scum is there reasonable to be in this game? 19p, probably like 5 scum, assuming singleball? I know from the spec earlier that 9 is asinine, but I know nothing about gamebalance. I just wanna know if I should be worried about not having many scumreads at this point. The only other 'large' game I've played in only had 17 players, one who was a non-issue, and even that was enough to confuse my reads. There was only 3 scum in that game, but the setup was different there so eh.

The less scum there are the more confident I am in cycling through lurker slots. Unreadable slots with no posts are much better to get rid of early or force-replace out before the thread becomes too big rather than have sitting around as a liability later in the game.

RB tells me Dreamer is scum, and he's lurky as fuck, so I'm fine sheeping that.
Mod confirmed town RB seems like an automatic town win tbh.
VOTE: Dreamer

Alisae is kinda weird. I get a lot of 'well this is obvtown' from her, and a lot of 'well this is obvscum' from her, and everything inbetween.

I really don't think there's anything wrong with a utility lynch at this point in the game. Crucify me.

[Human Sequencer]

Really conflicted on Wraith. Old multiball point still stands, and if multiball is confirmed he's obvscum to me. But his catchup walls look genuine and are towny as fuck.
He could just be better than me though lmoa

RB, grey, Creature, Dunn, what do you think of Wraith and why?

[Wraith]

My beef with Alisae. This will largely be me copy-pasting all the bullet points from my two compilations with maybe some extra commentary. I just want to put it all in one post.

* Alisae not reading the rules and voting Gin in #46/48 for mentioning scum daychat is another strike against him. It wouldn't look bad by itself but combined with the more egregious posts by him (JFC I keep writing "her" because of the username and avatar)...
* Alisae townreads me in #206 and #215, then scumreads and votes for me in #239. I made no new posts between #206 and #239, the only thing that changed is she talked to Echo. And in light of her future voting patterns, she seems to be getting in on a growing wagon on the ground.
* Alisae gets a scumread on Dunnstral early on for weak reasons (#225) and continues to cling to it over time without wavering and without giving further reasons to maintain the scumread (#363, #409). As much as Alisae spams the thread she does very little to justify or explain her reads in general. I point to #409 in particular where she posts "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched I'll just post my reads with absolutely no context bye now." It reeks of falseness
* In #434 Alisae labels Debi VI without that much to go on and then draws scumreads based on that label. Inherently flawed logic leading to flawed conclusions which looks like fake scumhunting to me. This is the difference between players who get legit scumreads on me (Grey, Ircher, Echo) and players who don't, and is another big part of why I strongly scumread Alisae
* Alisae's #450 is pretty egregious to me. She townreads Echo for his apparent frustration at seven new pages overnight in his #231. Yet she doesn't react whatsoever to other players similarly reacting to sudden surges in thread activity - myself (#481), HS (#487), GE (#1026). Why does Echo get this special treatment? I'll also bring back up the incident where she 180'd on her read of me between #206 and #239, where I made no new posts in between those but what she did do was talk to and sheep Echo. Again, it appears to me that Alisae is coming up with bullshit reasons to read people and that way she appears to be scumhunting, but it reality she's doing nothing and joining the most popular wagon of the moment.
* Has so little conviction in her scumread of me that she'll flip to Pine after a short exchange, and then flips back to me after another, and then flips back to Pine YET AGAIN after another. Again, her scumread on me coming not from herself but from Echo. Oh, and with more "woe is me I'm gonna get lynched overnight" bullshit after the re-vote. This isn't real scumhunting folks, this is the appearance of scumhunting.
* Essentially claims VI after several players have called her lynchbait and continues playing that up even now.
* Joins the flashwagon on All Alone (with Dunnsral, someone she allegedly has a scumread on).
* Openly talks about a pressure wagon on Pine, defeating the purpose of a pressure wagon. Again, not scumhunting, but appearing to scumhunt.
* Joins the flashwagon on Ircher (WITH THE GUY SHE WAS SCUMREADING HUNDRED POSTS AGO)
* Rejoins the flashwagon on All Alone (more justifiable, but again, if she scumreads All Alone WHY DID SHE NOT IMMEDIATELY CALL FOUL ON THE IRCHER FLASHWAGON?)
* OMGUS scumreads drealmerz for scumreading her in #1049
* Pushes yet another flashwagon on Slick

Let's check the voting record - when they happened, who was already on the wagon, and whether or not anyone voted for the same target immediately after she did:

1. Kyouko (#6, RVS)
2. Gin (#46, Creature #23, All Alone #42, probably still RVS)
3. Creature (#63, Gin #41, Pine #85, probably still RVS)
4. Kyouko (#175, probably still RVS)
5. Wraith (#239, Ircher #146, Echo #231, Gin #241, sheeping Echo)
6. Pine (#466, knee-jerk)
7. Wraith (#470, Still Ircher + Echo, Kyouko #303, still a popular wagon)
8. Pine (#474, Creature #497, knee-jerk)
9. All Alone (#820, Dunnstral #816, Creature #818, flashwagon)
10. Pine (#853, Zach #852, Creature #855, Kyouko #890, flashwagon)
11. Ircher (#912, rb #910, All Alone #914, flashwagon)
12. All Alone (#933, Dunnstral #816, Echo #864, Uzi #923, rb #925, Creature #929, Ircher #964, flashwagon)
13. Pine (#976, Zach #852, Kyouko #890, actually a consistent scumread)
14. Slick (#1067, Creature #1076, Uzi #1090, starts a new flashwagon)

So the tl;dr gist is:

1. Alisae town- or scumreads players for extremely shallow and arbitrary reasons or for reasons she fails to adequately explain.
2. Alisae's vote changes practically every hour, primarily jumping on the most popular bandwagon of the moment.
3. Therefore, Alisae is not genuinely scumhunting or trying to contribute, and both her reads and votes both lack any sort of conviction or depth as a result. My conclusion is that she is scum trying to appear to be active and scumhunting but trying to blend into the background of wagons to conveniently shift off blame later.

[-Grey-]

RB, grey, Creature, Dunn, what do you think of Wraith and why?

I really like 1092. Trying to decide whether I want to vote Slick or drealmerz at this point.

[Creature]

VOTE: drealmerz7