STEVEN UNIVERSE 2 - GAME OVER

[mastin2]

If Sky was the one "set to endgame" there's no way in hell where the "Masters of Deceit and Tactical Maneuvers" would have let her go there even if they thought it was only a 10% chance she'd get lynched.

You say this, and I fail to understand why. Skybird, when allied with Xkfyu, would be completely immune to all actions.

ALL ACTIONS. (Not just night actions. ALL. actions. Including kills.)
Now.

When the information was relayed...did you have any reason to believe Xkfyu's kill could trump a bulletproof? (Which is what that was: effectively a super fucking bulletproof.)

Because if Skybird thought SHE WAS A FUCKING BULLETPROOF, and that Xkfyu's kill power COULD NOT KILL HER...then why the fuck wouldn't Skybird be sent in place of Shadow_step? Her being sent would save her scumbuddy. The event used to kill her would fail. More than that it was a bulletproof ascetic of sorts. She couldn't die. She couldn't be targeted. Or so she thought. So how the fuck doesn't that fit with a scum mastermind? It's right in their alley!

Now, they can make a miscalculation! Assume that Skybird's immunity trumps Xkfyu's kill, and be shocked (and horrified) when it turns out, whoops! Nope it didn't. But tell me. Did you, or did you not, know that Xkfyu's kill could bypass kill immunity?
If you did not, any argument for RR not being scum instantly goes out the window.

[mastin2]

If you ally with any player, you will learn if they are a Human or a Gem.

So long as you are allied with a player, you are immune to all actions.

Bolding this. Skybird was in an alliance with Xkfyu. Skybird was thus supposedly immune to all actions.

Her allying with Xkfyu to save the life of the Foxbird/Twinwings/Shadow_step slot therefore makes sense:
One, she was considered confirmed town.
Two, even if not, she was far less likely to be shot.
And three,

even if she was, there was cause to believe the shot would be wasted

.

In fact, looking at the nature of the ability:

EPISODE EVENT: Exposition Only--Trigger any time a player successfully allies with you.
PRIORITY: 2
REQUIREMENTS: +2 Stress or higher.
You may immediately (privately) end your alliance to cause all players allied with you to publicly be removed from the game for an entire Episode.

You may privately decide to kill a single player that is removed in this way. They will die upon returning to the game.

Even if you conveyed the nature of the kill. Xkfyu paraphrasing to you, Almost50, and you paraphrasing to Reasonably Rational. This kill doesn't look like it would trump Skybird's immunity on the surface.

Now, we happen to know in hindsight that yes it did. With Xkfyu's flip and Skybird's flip, we can see the verbiage that would allow it: she was removed from the game, and by being removed from the game, was therefore no longer in the alliance and therefore vulnerable. But that exact detail would have had to have survived the chain.

Tell me, Almost50. What EXACTLY did you tell RR?
Because if you didn't convey the ability in a specific phrasing...then yeah. Reasonably Rational could have assumed Skybird was immune to the kill. In fact! Reasonably Rational could have killed Yume

specifically so that Xkfyu would trigger and waste his event

, on someone who would be immune to its effect. (Or so they would have believed.)

[mastin2]

Holy fucking shit I can't believe nobody actually looked at that ability before.
I'm sure that's something the dead thread was livid about.

That actually explains a huge fucking part of what went on. Things didn't make complete sense back then, but now they kinda do.

grapes was killed N1, for being obvious town and having led the lynch on scum, with an aside of fear about grapes's accuracy continuing to improve. Additionally, RR would not have wanted grapes in the game for too long on past experience.

Klingoncelt was killed N2 for many reasons: the fact that she would be seen as confirmed town once DGB flipped for having outed that DGB was a traitor for a start. Also, her being a crystal gem was something that a Reasonably Rational-led scumteam would want: her flip would reveal information about the crystal gems. Now, RR already knew about the gems, but didn't know of their exact nature. Killing one was a great way to expose them for what they were, and made total sense.

Not Chara was killed N3 because it didn't take a genius for scum who killed grapes to figure out why grapes wasn't dead. Most of the game at this point had claimed or at least partially claimed, especially to Reasonably Rational. grapes's role was basically known at this point, and grapes wasn't responsible for his lack of death. Not Chara had also admitted that it had an alliance power that could cover it, which grapes had denied it, meaning that a mechanical genius like RR would be able to figure out that Not Chara's ally power granted grapes the NK immunity that grapes enjoyed. (Incidentally, this is a really fucking huge thing. Not Chara informed us that grapes

did not know about this power

.)

Yume was killed D3 in order to allow for Xkfyu to trigger his event with Skybird, which RR thought would--in a worst case scenario--nullify the event. Skybird probably had flavor to justify being immune to the kill attempt, and Skybird was widely townread so likely wouldn't have been killed. So, it was a safe bet: Skybird would most likely be spared, and if not, the kill would be nullified by her immunity, which would be easily justified.

Titus was killed N4 because of the best opportunity to get rid of her: slice of life. She was normally immune (or at least resistant) to nightkills, but was exposed. She was also in the process of game solving, something RR had a firsthand view of why she needed to be gone. She had dangerous powers, and nobody would question the kill, because she was also confirmed town. Confirmed town, who was BP, who had dangerous powers, and was gamesolving, being utterly vulnerable to being killed. This I think is the one kill which we can all agree needs no explanation, but for the sake of thoroughness, I include it anyway.

farside was killed N6 because she was being defended by all the conftown, and her vote ability represented an extreme threat to the scumteam. Furthermore, she was scumreading Reasonably Rational HARD. She was a wildcard. She was thought vulnerable, because she claimed ascetic, not action immune (as it turned out she was). At that stage in the game, people had written her off as town-or-third-party, and there wasn't interest in lynching her. She was a threat, because with her voting power, she could have lynched RR if she got any support there whatsoever. It'd have only taken one (maybe two) votes in order for farside to lynch Reasonably Rational, and that WAS the lynch farside was gunning for at the time she was nightkilled by the scumteam. She was being surprisingly reasonable and rational (ha), and yet stubbornly one-minded. That's a kill that RR makes before any other player.

Scum could not kill N7.
And N8, scum could not kill, because doing so would confirm both Fuzzy and grapes as town: Fuzzy's shot going through when scum killed would have cleared Fuzzy. grapes being seen not visiting when the scum killed would have cleared grapes. Now, one of these might not be true if Fuzzy shot Almost50, sure, but the presence of the other justifies a lack of a scum kill.

The only night, and I do mean ONLY night, I don't have an explanation for, is N5.

All other nights have a kill explanation.

[mastin2]

MoI:

I'll make you a deal.
If, after reading what I've posted (especially 12075, 12076, and ESPECIALLY 12077), you still don't believe me that Reasonably Rational is the last scumbag...
...I will compromise-lynch Fuzzy, on ONE condition. And one condition ONLY: Reasonably Rational then be permabubbled, and never let go. Even if the game doesn't end after bubbling them! (Which it would.)

I mean I'd do so fully expecting Fuzzy to be town at this point. After Skybird's death, we had TWIE and Shadow_step. While Fuzzy's no moron, I don't feel he's capable of the advanced level play we saw in the form of the scum's moves from N4 onward. I also don't see Shadow_step as exactly a strategical genius. Unless TWIE was calling the shots there, I don't see this being a scumteam with Fuzzy on it.

But if the price I have to pay to get RR out of the game is a lynch on Fuzzy, so be it.

This offer does not extend to a grapes lynch, by the way. You're lucky you're getting this much from me.

But really. Reasonably Rational is the last scum. They're scum regardless of anything else. One scum (which there is), two scum (which you posit, but I'll believe when I see), doesn't matter. That's why I want them lynched today. And if they can't be lynched, they can be bubbled. Bubbling is less-optimal. If the game were to continue after their bubbling (it wouldn't, but I know I need to be prepared for the scenario anyway), we wouldn't know if they were scum or not. Which is why I prefer the lynch. The lynch ends the game immediately, or proves me wrong immediately. A bubble ends the game with minimal delay, or leaves things ambiguous. Not doing either will just lead to this same exact song and dance tomorrow. Or I'll be dead and you can do what you want, but you risk losing to RR for not having done this.

Basically, RR is scum. Period. I'm 97% sure they're the last scum. In the 3% chance they aren't, then seeing them flip would be better than having them not flip, but letting them live to see tomorrow would be worse than that. In short, the 3% hypothetical in which the game continues after RR has been removed from it has the following be true:
RR lynch > RR bubble > RR alive tomorrow.
In the 97% chance that they are in fact the last scum, RR lynch > RR bubble > RR alive tomorrow as well, it's just that there's not as much fuss to worry over because it doesn't matter as much, their removal from the game ends the game. Just a matter of the fastest way, which is lynching today.

Soyeah. Read what I've said. Considering how fucking obvious it is Reasonably Rational is the last scum at this point, this is a really, really, reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally lenient offer on my end. (Delayed victory < instant victory. Instant victory = lynching RR today; delayed victory = not lynching RR today.)

[mastin2]

However, even assuming he had joined them starting Climax 3, then it still was a big mistake to take out Yume earlier on Exposition 3. In fact, DOUBLY as much faulty. It raised the stress enough for Xk to actually join the Gems AND allowed him to use his ability to kill.. then Sky goes in willingly to ally with him knowing all this??!!!

You say scum mistake.
I say scum brilliance, albeit a miscalculation.

It's the sort of thing I do all the time as town, except as scum: making a plan which is good, and is reasonable, and is sound, which is foolproof on the surface, accomplishing many things for the team, yet which had a critical flaw that could not have been known.

Xkfyu might've fullclaimed to you.
And you relayed that information to RR.
But Xkfyu paraphrased his role PM when fullclaiming to you.
And presumably, what you told RR was a paraphrase OF said paraphrase.

It only takes one key detail in the way his kill works being lost in the translation for a scumteam to assume Skybird couldn't be harmed by his kill thanks to her own ability immunity.

[mastin2]

Xk's bubble ONLY worked on someone allied to them. None of the scum, and especially Skybird of all "had" to ally with him if they knew anything about it.

And Skybird's immunity to actions ONLY worked WHEN she was allied with somebody. So of the scum, she had more reason than anybody else to assume that she was safe.

[mastin2]

The point I am making here is:
Basically, in hindsight, we KNOW that Xkfyu's killing ability works on Skybird.
In hindsight, we know this...because we saw it actually work and kill Skybird.
In HINDSIGHT, we know that Xkfyu's killing ability trumped Skybird's action immunity.

So in HINDSIGHT, there is the argument that a scumteam would never have allowed Skybird to ally with Xkfyu knowing of that ability and/or killed Yume allowing Xkfyu to use said ability.

But that's with HINDSIGHT.

At the time. Was there any reason to believe as much? At the time, when Skybird was alive...was there any reason to believe Skybird's action immunity would fail?
Was there any reason to believe that a generic killing action from Xkfyu would be enough to puncture through action immunity?

I

really

don't think so. We know those things ONLY in hindsight because it actually happened. Without it having happened, a scumteam can and probably did assume Skybird was safe.

Ergo, the argument is actually backwards: a scumteam would WANT Skybird to ally with Xkfyu knowing of that ability, and would WANT to kill Yume in order for Xkfyu to trigger and therefore waste said ability. (Keeping in mind an alternative target for it would've been another known scum player.)

[mastin2]

Now the ball is once again on Mastina's court, I'm afraid. Check the benefits allying with grapes gives you/him (and I'm talking about HIS effects not yours) and see if he would benefit S_S in anyway and/or would benefit FROM S_S (actually from allying with just about anyone)

Actually, no.
grapes's alliance does nothing but bad things for the partner.
Namely, it prevents their alliance power from working on them. Not Chara told you this D1. (I can pull up the quotes if necessary, but they're there.) I can confirm it today. (Basically: grapes gets the benefit of my ally power. You've seen this demonstrated by him having been at the lynch threshold, and still being alive. His partner does not get the benefit of the ally power. Meaning that my lynch threshold is...the lynch threshold.) So grapes's power would actually be SABOTAGING Something_smart.

So a grapes-S_S alliance would be basically worthless or even detrimental to a scumteam.

[mastin2]

Almost – the Mod revelation(to me) that his Alliance ability did in fact empower the Mafia factional Nightkill spelled the end of my suspicion of him today. There is no reason for scum A50 to not link up with partners after Day 1 to make sure (or as sure as they could get) that no pesky Docs or BP prevented their Nightkills. And especially after the loss of Skybird. Yet we’ve had a significant period of lack of unaccounted for Nightkills. So not voting there today.

This I will buy.

RR – Given as solo Mafia his Nightkill last Night would not have fail on any Non-Commuting targets I don’t see the lack of kill outside Farside as making any sense for RR. He could have easily shot Mastin under those circumstances and no-one would have blinked an eye given Mastin’s confirmed status. Sorry Mastin but your whole “No Killing keeps the suspicion on Fuzzy” theory is great and all but it requires RR to have made a move that GUARENTEES he loses the game as solo scum with grapes being lynched today. I don’t see that as happening.

This however doesn't hold.
There's not one but TWO reasons RR holds fire.
Say RR shoots me.
Say Fuzzy does in fact shoot farside.
Well then.
Almost50 gets confirmation that GRAPES DID NOT TARGET ANYONE. Which confirms grapes as town.
We also get two kills, proving that Fuzzy has a second kill.
You say grapes gets lynched today. But if grapes was CONFIRMED TOWN because of a scum kill last night and Almost50 tracking grapes to nobody...no he fucking doesn't? Which is more likely: town derps at lolninja paranoia, or accepts grapes as town?

Yeah, this is pretty fucking self-explanatory.

"Okay, but what if Fuzzy shot Almost50?"
Well in that scenario, grapes does get lynched, sure, yeah.
And then we lynch either Fuzzy or RR.
And then the following day, we lynch whichever we didn't the day before, in mylo/lylo.
Sure I'd be dead, but it didn't matter.
If Fuzzy had shot Almost50, then Reasonably Rational would have lost the game.
If Fuzzy had shot RR, then...well, yeah, RR would have lost the game.
The only scenario in which RR doesn't lose the game by sheer POE is Fuzzy shooting farside, as so happened.

And therefore, RR assumes Fuzzy is going to shoot farside. No other scenario for scum!RR is worth considering. Fuzzy shoots them, they lose; they can't control that. Fuzzy shoots Almost50, grapes gets lynched today and then we've got two days to lynch two suspects: Fuzzy and RR. RR loses that scenario no matter what (they can't convince the town that Shiro is scum), so it's not something they can control or otherwise influence.
NOW. If Fuzzy shoots farside, as he did? Well, then.
RR shooting me? Confirms grapes as town and semiconfirms Fuzzy as town. Game, set, match. We have three lynches for two suspects, Almost50 and RR. RR loses.
RR holds fire? grapes is left with suspicion. Fuzzy is indeed left with suspicion. We have three lynches...for five suspects, because of Shiro paranoia.

So not only did RR need the farside kill--they also had to plan around it. They needed to assume that farside would die, because if anyone else died it didn't matter what plan they enacted. What power they would use. Whether they killed or no-killed. With a non-farside vig, Reasonably Rational as scum loses the game. A farside kill was therefore their ONLY path to victory. And a no-kill was the ONLY way to ensure exactly that.

Why don’t you explain why he doesn’t make sense from a Dayplay perspective?

Well for a start.
Fuzzy's self-voting, and that's not an act. That's not bravado done to try and dissuade you from lynching him.
Also, Fuzzy is all over the place. He is crazy unfocused. He lacks clear directive. He isn't posting with any idea of what he's doing. He's going everywhere.
Furthermore, while Fuzzy is a reasonably smart guy, there's a certain amount of moonlogic in his posts which goes beyond his ability to fake. The things he is spewing on about aren't things he would think of as scum, but as an unfocused town make perfect sense.

Not good enough?
Okay, try this on for size: Fuzzy's slot has one of the best voting records in terms of actually voting for scum players. I shit you not, go check the votecounts yourself. Seraphim was an early voter of scum. Fuzzy was a consistent voter of DGB. Fuzzy was a consistent voter on Shadow_step, even as we were mislynching Creature. Fuzzy also partook in the TWIE lynch. In short, the only scum slots that Fuzzy's slot hasn't voted were SirCakez (and Fuzzy had JUST replaced in when day one ended, so he didn't have a chance to anyway) and Skybird.

Furthermore, Fuzzy's slot has consistently been voted BY scum. If you read my posts as thoroughly as you claimed to, you would have seen how many times and how consistently Shadow_step tried to lynch Fuzzy. He was trying to lynch Fuzzy every day phase. Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, you name it. So either Shadow_step consistently bussed Fuzzy, or Fuzzy is town.

Fuzzy quite literally has voted more scum than any other player, and been voted by scum more than any player.

That seems to speak loudly enough for me.

[mastin2]

I think she's on cruise control just waiting out the day hoping that others are less stubborn and will just "give in" to her wishes.

Fuck that.
Cruise control would be saying something and then not backing it up.
Cruise control would be not even bothering to say something.
Cruise control would be not bothering to push forward.
Cruise control would be putting no time and no effort into the game.
Cruise control would be doing little more than prod dodging as I put together some empty halfhearted words.

That's what cruise control is.

You know what's not cruise control?
Reading the game, large swaths of it.
Doing repeated isos.
Tackling together literally EVERY SINGLE VOTECOUNT IN THE GAME and then COLOR CODING THEM for convenience, with commentary along the way.
Reading thousands--literally thousands--of posts and bringing up the relevant ones.
Searching for more stuff to prove my stances wrong, and then quoting things when I only find evidence they were right.
Giving my reasons.
Bargaining with people.
Pushing hard for one particular outcome.
Pleading for players to answer, and to do some basic reading of their own.
Pacing back and forth (a way to clear my thoughts and think), doing nothing but concentrating on this game, going through scenarios.
Running mental math endlessly through my mind.
Crunching setup numbers and carefully considering every factor at play.

Don't EVER dare insult me like this again.

I'm putting more work into this game right now than any other player and have lost countless hours to the game as I have reviewed things, and presented things, and tried to get people to realize WHY I am right, rather than sitting on my ass and doing nothing.

[mastin2]

why would RR shoot Far when it would be a lot easier to get me to vig them on day 8- If they did not shoot day 6 do you think there was a reason.

You didn't quite understand.
Last night, N8, scum no-killed.
This is simple. No debate about it.

N6, scum killed farside.
This is confirmed, because farside was immune to actions thanks to her ability, and gained a point thanks to her action-immunity ability. Nobody claimed responsibility. Ergo, scum targeted her N6.
Occam's razor: which is simpler? That scum used some previously-unknown ability on a KNOWN ASCETIC N6...
...Or that scum tried to kill someone who they thought was JUST an ascetic (not ascetic+BP as it turned out)?

The latter is far simpler than the former.
Ergo, we can safely assume farside was killed N6.
Ergo, we can safely use that analysis to better determine who the scum are. Scum shot farside N6. This is basically not up for debate, as a given. So since we KNOW scum shot farside, now the question to ask is

why

scum shot farside. The answer I came up with is that the person most likely to take that shot is Reasonably Rational.

Also why do you think they did not kill night 8

Okay, let me explain this as clearly as possible. Assume RR is solo scum.

Fuzzy shoots RR, RR shoots someone:

RR loses, so their shot was pointless.

Fuzzy shoots RR, RR holds fire:

RR loses, so holding fire was meaningless.

Fuzzy shoots Almost50, RR shoots someone:

There are four lynch candidates left--Fuzzy/RR/grapes/Shiro. We have three lynches. We lynch grapes. grapes flips town. grapes's townflip clears Shiro. As a result, we now have two lynch candidates: Fuzzy and RR. We have two lynches left. Say we lynch you. RR gets lynched in lylo (because we'd have three alive at minimum), because they are confirmed scum. In other words, no matter what, RR loses, so their shot was pointless.

Fuzzy shoots Almost50, RR holds fire:

Same exact math. There are four lynch candidates left--Fuzzy/RR/grapes/Shiro. We have three lynches. We lynch grapes. grapes flips town. grapes's townflip clears Shiro. As a result, we now have two lynch candidates: Fuzzy and RR. We have two lynches left. Say we lynch you. RR gets lynched in mylo (because we'd have four alive at minimum), because they are confirmed scum. In other words, no matter what, RR loses, so holding fire was meaningless.

Fuzzy shoots farside, RR shoots someone:

Almost50 gets a result on grapes: grapes did not target anyone. This confirms grapes as town. We have three candidates for a lynch--Fuzzy/RR/Almost50. We have three lynches available. RR shooting in this case condemns them to death.

Fuzzy shoots farside, RR holds fire:

Almost50 doesn't clear grapes. We've got FIVE candidates for the lynch, and only three lynches: grapes/Shiro/Fuzzy/Almost50/RR. Lynching grapes removes Shiro, but leaves us with three candidates for two lynches.

While this does not offer much wiggle Room (RR has to dodge the first lynch and win the coinflip in lylo), it is literally the ONLY path to victory a scum!RR had.

[mastin2]

curious what makes you think there is something sinister in the RR read as opposed to just being a terrible read

Because RR isn't terrible as town.

This is how you use burden of proficiency without it being a fallacy.

There are certain, basic, FUNDAMENTAL levels of standards that I hold the hydra of Reasonably Rational up to. These basic standards are a baseline of sorts: "What are they like on a bad day?" On a bad day, they will not have caught any scum (yet), and not have mechanically locked the game down (yet).

They have fallen short of that basic standard. This level of play goes beyond terrible. It's actually flat-out atrocious if they are actually town. I'm dead serious, they've protected every scum since D2. They had a sudden reversal on Skybird from nullish-and-not-cleared-on-mechanics to town-via-mechanics. They only went after DGB after DGB was the default scumread of the entire thread. They avoided pushing TheWayItEnds and actually pushed farside INSTEAD OF TheWayItEnds. They avoided pushing Shadow_step and pushed Creature INSTEAD OF Shadow_step for horrible reasons. They encouraged you to hold fire and not shoot Shadow_step, giving him an extra day. Their mechanical speculation on farside was wrong. Their campaign against the crystal gems was bad.

You were there in the original Steven Universe game, Fuzzy.
Did they act that way there?

No, they did not.

This isn't just an "off game" of theirs.

It's just purely, simply, their scumgame.

[mastin2]

if Mastin is scum she deserves to be nominated for a scummy..........not only that but to win

I deserve a Scummy period, for being literally the only one who has been consistently here and actually trying to solve the game from a multidimensional, multilayered approach.

I mean, I'd make a wager here (basically, "Hey, if RR's solo scum, nom me for a Scummy"), but that'd probably be considered an outside influence on the game and thus, therefore be banned.

[mastin2]

a scumteam would WANT Skybird to ally with Xkfyu knowing of that ability, and would WANT to kill Yume in order for Xkfyu to trigger and therefore waste said ability. (Keeping in mind an alternative target for it would've been another known scum player.)

And you might ask: why would a scumteam want Xkfyu to waste the ability?

Aside from how it was potentially going to be used on a scum player, this is part of Reasonably Rational's modus operandi as mafia: eliminate threats to the scum. Make as many town abilities as possible be used in as sub-optimally a fashion as possible. When utilizing their own abilities, provide something which looks town, but isn't hurtful to the scum. Integrate into the townbloc, look town, all the while making the town use their abilities in ways which do not hurt the scum.

Xkfyu wasting the vig shot on an immune Skybird would lead to some potential friction in regards to Xkfyu. It would also prevent the vig shot from being used on a vulnerable scum player, which would confirm Xkfyu (and by extent, the rest of the crystal gems) as being town. While it wouldn't allow Xkfyu to shoot town, it is an elimination of a variable. Eliminating variables is the top priority of Reasonably Rational. Yume was a variable. Xkfyu's shot was a variable. Skybird was meant to nullify said variable.

And that plan would've been a good one if Skybird's action immunity protected her from the shot. Which, I cannot stress enough, is a fairly fucking reasonable assumption on the part of a scumteam to make. They thought Skybird was safe. They thought Skybird was in no danger. Skybird's power was supposed to protect her from any and all harm to come her way. When it didn't, I don't care who the scum are. They were surprised. RR, grapes, Shiro, Fuzzy, Almost50, doesn't matter. They didn't see it coming because knowing Skybird had action immunity, they would assume she was safe.

[mastin2]

Well I think if kraska is town I'd lynch rr. Just so many things read fake and over the top from him.

^Farside's reads on the latter half of D5. Her other scumreads? Creature (town) and Shiro (only scum if two scum).

So that's pretty damn compelling evidence that RR had reason to shoot farside.

[Shiro]

Mastin, if you are wrong and I am dead tommorow, will you push a fuzzy lynch to the death ?

If so people just vote RR already, arguying is pointless and we have entred ourselves in a loop. We can take the mislynch and win tommorow. Seriously the game wont progress unless we decide to risk it. Everyone opinion has been voiced and it isnt like any option changes much. It just order at this point. Might as well take mastin route first.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Almost / RR

– We haven’t had a vote count in awhile but I believe Fuzzy is at either L-2 (myself, Random and Shiro voting him) or L-1 (add on his self-vote). Are you willing to lynch Fuzzy today?

--

What would be a good kill for scum at this point? And why bother when that confirms lynchbait as town and also clears me as town now that I'm thinking about it because almost regardless of alignment can't lie about his track on me which rr and fuzzy both knew about.

It doesn’t confirm you as Town and the fact that you (and mastin, but that’s another story) keep presenting it as fact is bad.

And what's more if fuzzy's a vig he's shooting bulletproof obvtown for sure anyway.

So what? Scum need bodies to hit the floor to win. They’ve had a miserable track record of that happening in the last 4 Nights (half of which was engineered by me but that’s beside the point). Your point seems to be “Scum would rather put themselves in a position to have to dodge more lynches and bubbles than necessary because … um .. not sure given that the only person killing Fuzzy would clear would be dead Fuzzy” and that’s pretty weak.

Meanwhile all that is predicated on your stance that Fuzzy is Town when scum Fuzzy also just as neatly explains the lack of a second kill last Night. But we’ve clearly been over that and you’ve ignored it before so I’m assuming it is still in your “ignore pile”.

--

I never said that they never shot at you night 5, I do find it odd that three conf town are alive at this point....... I am confused maybe you can help me.
I seem to understand you set off the event night 5...... tell me if I am wrong on this. If I understand right you set off the event that prevented the kill and you also was the one targeted, Am I correct on this also,

If you do happen to be Town then stop asking for pointless explanation. Unless you are suggesting I’m scum who engineered an event reveal by Varsoon to cover for No Killing (which is a pretty ludicrously stupid idea frankly) then just accept what I am saying and move on.

Random just seem to be skating by on the fact that he is a Gem..... I know he is a low energy player. I get that but honestly I have not seen anything outside of him being mason to point he is town. Not even saying he is necessarily scum but honestly I have very little that points to him being town. Just seems like everyone is giving him a free pass and that's frustrating!!!!!!! if he was not a mason he would get more heat,,

FYI for anyone who thinks Fuzzy is Town – this absolutely screams “Frustrated scum who sees what should be an easy mislynch hanging out there and just can’t understand why it can’t be achieved”.

If Moi was scum
Night5- is lying about being shot at
Night6- Shot Far?
Night7- RB by Event

So you are saying hypothetically I triggered two events (N5 and N7) as scum that prevented scum from killing or required scum to No Kill for no real gain? Do I have that logic correct? Because it is solid and clear that no-one is counter-claiming those event triggers. I just want to be clear that really even bothered to type this up when it is clearly patently absurd.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mastin let’s start at the beginning –

I deserve a Scummy period, for being literally the only one who has been consistently here and actually trying to solve the game from a multidimensional, multilayered approach.

Don't EVER dare insult me like this again.

Nope nope nope.

Beyond anything else you don’t get to play the injured party while basically insulting the ability and effort of every other player in the game.

Sorry, you don’t.

I don’t give a rat’s ass that you think you are putting in the most effort ever and no-one else is doing jack shit. Just because you want to type long posts explaining over and over why you think RR is scum doesn’t mean other players aren’t putting in effort. I’ve spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about the game, different theories and what I think needs to happen to achieve a Town win. I’m sure you will get the same response from some others.

But don’t pretend you are the only one who cares and is trying their best. And you flat out are coasting on “RR is the last scum”. You may dislike beinig called out on it but you are. I don’t really care that if you are wrong on RR then you are out of ideas and will be a dutiful little sheep. The point of Mafia is not to see if Mastin is wrong or not. It’s to win the game. That's what I am working towards.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Almost / RR

– We haven’t had a vote count in awhile but I believe Fuzzy is at either L-2 (myself, Random and Shiro voting him) or L-1 (add on his self-vote). Are you willing to lynch Fuzzy today?

--

What would be a good kill for scum at this point? And why bother when that confirms lynchbait as town and also clears me as town now that I'm thinking about it because almost regardless of alignment can't lie about his track on me which rr and fuzzy both knew about.

It doesn’t confirm you as Town and the fact that you (and mastin, but that’s another story) keep presenting it as fact is bad.

And what's more if fuzzy's a vig he's shooting bulletproof obvtown for sure anyway.

So what? Scum need bodies to hit the floor to win. They’ve had a miserable track record of that happening in the last 4 Nights (half of which was engineered by me but that’s beside the point). Your point seems to be “Scum would rather put themselves in a position to have to dodge more lynches and bubbles than necessary because … um .. not sure given that the only person killing Fuzzy would clear would be dead Fuzzy” and that’s pretty weak.

Meanwhile all that is predicated on your stance that Fuzzy is Town when scum Fuzzy also just as neatly explains the lack of a second kill last Night. But we’ve clearly been over that and you’ve ignored it before so I’m assuming it is still in your “ignore pile”.

--

I never said that they never shot at you night 5, I do find it odd that three conf town are alive at this point....... I am confused maybe you can help me.
I seem to understand you set off the event night 5...... tell me if I am wrong on this. If I understand right you set off the event that prevented the kill and you also was the one targeted, Am I correct on this also,

If you do happen to be Town then stop asking for pointless explanation. Unless you are suggesting I’m scum who engineered an event reveal by Varsoon to cover for No Killing (which is a pretty ludicrously stupid idea frankly) then just accept what I am saying and move on.

Random just seem to be skating by on the fact that he is a Gem..... I know he is a low energy player. I get that but honestly I have not seen anything outside of him being mason to point he is town. Not even saying he is necessarily scum but honestly I have very little that points to him being town. Just seems like everyone is giving him a free pass and that's frustrating!!!!!!! if he was not a mason he would get more heat,,

FYI for anyone who thinks Fuzzy is Town – this absolutely screams “Frustrated scum who sees what should be an easy mislynch hanging out there and just can’t understand why it can’t be achieved”.

If Moi was scum
Night5- is lying about being shot at
Night6- Shot Far?
Night7- RB by Event

So you are saying hypothetically I triggered two events (N5 and N7) as scum that prevented scum from killing or required scum to No Kill for no real gain? Do I have that logic correct? Because it is solid and clear that no-one is counter-claiming those event triggers. I just want to be clear that really even bothered to type this up when it is clearly patently absurd.

Shiro has decided to park his vote on me in spite of pushing for TFL to be lynched, so I think TFL only has 2 votes on him right now. Maybe I'm wrong?

@Varsoon: VC please?

-Cerb

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shiro has decided to park his vote on me in spite of pushing for TFL to be lynched, so I think TFL only has 2 votes on him right now. Maybe I'm wrong?

You might not be. I assumed Shiro was still voting Fuzzy. I have so many other posts by mastin to respond to I didn't bother to check.

[Reasonably Rational]

Shiro has decided to park his vote on me in spite of pushing for TFL to be lynched, so I think TFL only has 2 votes on him right now. Maybe I'm wrong?

You might not be. I assumed Shiro was still voting Fuzzy. I have so many other posts by mastin to respond to I didn't bother to check.

Like, the last VC shows no votes on TFL, and I haven't seen anyone vote him since then except himself. I've seen people TALK about voting him, but I didn't notice either you or random put a vote on him.

-Cerb

[TheFuzzylogic99]

RR
MOI is not voting for me ...however Shiro snd Random are voting me

MOI
Yeah bc asking questions and trying to figure things out is just so so scummy.......I hate how you are trying to make me feel dumb for asking questions....really this is just anti town, Sorry you are not helping, I don't think you are scum. Its possible but unlikely.
On the questions ......If you are scum than you either are lying about setting off the event or being targeted. As I said its odd that you set off an event that saved your own life........ Its possible though. That why I was asking you about it. I am trying to work through these things out..... No I am not CC As I said I am just trying to figure out how exactly the event work.

please please please stop defending Random and letting him just skate by...... I don't think this is an unreasonable request


Can everyone just vote me and get it over with bc honestly I a tired of this game...............I am going to get mislynched at some point so I rather it be today/ Thanks

[TheFuzzylogic99]

unvote

Okay I am not going to get the frustration get the better of me............

[Varsoon]

@Varsoon: VC please?

-Cerb

ONLY 'CUS YA ASKED SO NICELY, LAD

[Varsoon]