Open 55 - Vanilla 2:10 (Abandoned) before 542

[Jester]

/confirm

[Jester]

::grins at destructor:: We were scum together, and you were the Godfather, remember? That makes your reason for voting both ironic and highly suspect.

And I'm gonna

vote pwayne66

because the last game I was in with him, I thought he was playing a chummy hail-fellow-well-met sort of scum, and that turned out to be 100% accurate.

[Jester]

That last post by Jester completely changed my view of this game. I see no way that he could be scum.

BTW, my early scumdar reading is that jester is 100% town

Errr... not that I disagree or anything, but I'm curious what I said that gave both of you that impression.

[Jester]

I've gotta agree with pwayne on this one. I haven't seen a single game type yet where lynching lurkers would be a pro-town strategy. Scum will stay active enough to avoid the noose, while two or three townies, no matter the game type, are always either quiet by choice or quiet because they're afraid something they say will be misinterpreted. So no, there's nothing special about the Vanilla game type for this argument, IMO.

I do find it kinda ironic that Lowell is agreeable to lynching lurkers. In every game I've been with him to date, he's been one. I'll devote my optimism to hoping this isn't another such game. Whadaya say, Lowell?

I might try designing a game where lynching lurkers would be advantageous to the town when I mod my first theme game, just to see how such a game would play.

[Jester]

mod:

I'd also like to request some prods. Flameaxe seems to have dropped off the site and will probably have to be replaced. Dracion, DeathSauce, Jdodge, Tobiassen, Elmo, and d3sisted would all seem to deserve prods as well.

[Jester]

DON'T YOU DARE PROD ME! I just forgot to put this on my watch list...

You also apparently forgot to put the other game you and I share right now on your watch list, and you've already been prodded there.

[Jester]

P.S. Oh, and for the record, JDodge and Elmo are active in other games. Tobiassen hasn't posted on this site since before Christmas.

Elmo, when you return to us, I've noticed a pattern in your play in previous games I've been in with you: some games, you totally ignore or post only one-liners, and other games, you over-post to absurd (and quite often hostile) lengths. Care to discuss?

[Jester]

DeathSauce: "I'm voting for Tyler 'cause he's acting suspiciously."
destructor: "Why is he suspicious?"
DeathSauce: "Because he

is

! Duh!"

destructor: "I'm voting for DeathSauce 'cause he's acting suspiciously."
ryan: "Why is he suspicious?"
destructor: "Because he

is

! Duh!"

I really wish I were making this up.

[Jester]

P.S.

unvote, vote: destructor

. -J

[Jester]

Not at all. Jester has complete misrepresented my arguments against DeathSauce. He's strawmanned me.

I have? Read your post 76, and tell me how it differs in structure to what I accuse you of in my 82.

[Jester]

Jester, that's not the only time I referred to DeathSauce, and if you'd read the thread you'd know that. Do you still think your argument's not a strawman? Regardless, who do you think is the best lead, if not me?

Um... I did. Twice. As far as I can tell, your total "case" against Deathsauce is in your posts 43 and 65. Unless you have more? Crying "strawman" doesn't help your case, particularly when you start accusing me of being his scum buddy. ::smirks::

And sure. Right now, you strike me as suspicious, for this single-target approach to the game. I don't like people who go single target on day one. I also don't care for how Lowell is playing the game. Ditto Elmo, who just isn't playing this game. I'd happily join an Elmo wagon for the sheer joy of evicting from the game both his annoyingness and his baiting of ryan, who I've found in past games to be a great player, and certainly a better player than Elmo. As you correctly point out, though, there's lots of people just not playing this game. So it's still early yet and I'll

unvote

for now.

Actually, pwayne and Destructor have had a little dance going on since page one. I'll put 41% on odds on them being the scumpair.

Is this another joke?

Unvote: Tobiassen ; vote: Jester.

Reasoning? And just because OMGUS is great fun (and satisfying!),

vote: Elmo

.

Nothing that will interfere (as far as my side)

Settle down. When you play calmly, you're a great player. It's entirely possible that people are *trying* to piss you off so that you play badly.

[Jester]

To tell the truth, I'm still trying to work out whether or not this game's left the random stage.

We're out of the random stage. It only feels like we might still be in the random stage because of all the floating hostility.

I voted randomly and posted no reason in attempt to pick up the game. It didn't work, but because I have nothing better to do but listen to name calling, I will leave it.

Tyler, that last post doesn't sound sincere to me. There have been enough things happening in this game for you to have commented on without having to pull something like that.

This is an interesting exchange, particularly in light of your 122, destructor. I agree that you did the right thing, calling TylerJ out on this. It's interesting that it was

you

that did it after your 122, though.

k7+TJ isn't totally out of the question right at this moment.

Interesting accusation, given that killa seven isn't a player in this game. Out of curiosity, where did you come up with this accusation?

mod

, how about some prods? On

JDodge

(last post, the 23rd; active elsewhere on site) and

Tobiassen

(last post, the 8th!; disappeared from site), please.

[Jester]

I'm hoping its someone's alt. If no one claims him by the end of the week, I'm deleting that post

mod

: Oh, and don't delete the post, please. It will change the post numbering. Just delete the text in the post and put a note from yourself saying you deleted it.

[Jester]

Heh. Killa seven's 131 has changed. I guess I'm going to hope that UltimaAvalon changed it.

However, you say he did the right thing because you think what I did was scummy. Right?

No, actually. I just don't find that sort of scum-snare very useful or likely to catch scum. What it generally does is what it seems to have done in this case: it got one person to respond, in a way that didn't provide the information that you were hoping it would. These kinds of scum-snares always seem to be built around the assumption that the scum don't know that they're scum. I assure you that they do, and never (in my experience) fall into such basic traps. So no, I didn't find what you did particularly scummy. Just not particularly useful, either.

FREE CODY!

Who's Cody?

...are you reasoning with flameaxe?

Heh. Pwayne, I missed you.

This is an interesting exchange, particularly in light of your 122, destructor. I agree that you did the right thing, calling TylerJ out on this. It's interesting that it was you that did it after your 122, though.

I'm not really sure what you're refering to here.

It was interesting in light of your 122, because you said in your 122:

To tell the truth, I'm still trying to work out whether or not this game's left the random stage. While I'm finding a lot of these posts entertaining, they're still pretty unhelpful.

then followed up in your 130, two days later, with:

There have been enough things happening in this game for you to have commented on without having to pull something like that.

They don't quite say opposite things, but they sure aren't consistent with each other. And see above. And while you're at it, see below.

Yes, No, Vote:, Good ass opinions there if I must so say!

I actually... agree with this. ::drills out brain::

Elmo is posting just enough to avoid replacement but is very intentional providing zero content. He is not misunderstood. He is not being unfairly pressured. He has had ample time to post something. He has received plenty of warnings. He is blatantly phucking with us and it is decidedly anti-town.

QFT from start to finish. And add "annoying as hell" somewhere in there.

I rather disliked Jester's hop on the wagon in 82, so I voted him. I also didn't like TylerJ's vote, hence my agreement with pwayne66's vote in 121; Jesters' felt more like he was reaching for a thin reason to justify it rather than it being obvious he didn't have a good reason, which (modulo WIFOM) generally seems scummier to me.

As a matter of fact, I think destructor's play has been fairly townish, but also a little bit... lazy. As I point out above, there's not much logical "flow-through" on his posts, linking one to the next. In my experience, sometimes that's scummy play, but I've seen destructor play scum up close, and that doesn't seem to be his style. That makes me think it's more likely lazy townie play, like he isn't taking notes and is operating off his feelings for people rather than evidence. It also leads to day-one single-targeting, which I also don't care for (and which I pointed out in my 120). So yeah, I voted for him to try to pressure him off that play-style. At least now, destructor is double-targeting.

I would've answered anything if it were posed to me, and I don't think I've provided zero content, although I suppose that leads to a debate about what constitutes content.

To say the least. I'm curious why you said this:

his baiting of ryan

No.

Care to elucidate? In more than one word?

I don't intend lynching you Elmo, unless you continue with lack of content. My vote was a pressure vote, note that if you were at negative 2 already, I wouldn't have voted you. But if someone isn't going to play, they are wasting time

QFT.

unvote

.

TylerJ and Deathsauce. Jester's third.

Oh? How come I'm on the list, if I might ask?

Unvote
Vote: TylerJ

Heh. That's a

bad

time to get your quote tags wrong.

[Jester]

Jester

: I haven't, as far as I'm aware, baited ryan. I don't think I'd actually mentioned him at the point you said that; I think you're mixing me up with JDodge. Why were you voting destructor when you believed he was pro-town?

As I mentioned in my 195, it was a pressure vote, intended to get him to stop single-targeting. My vote on you was also a pressure vote, intended to get you to stop with the "Yes! No!" B.S. You've stopped that at least, but I'm still not entirely sanguine about you. I've read a number of completed games where you were a player, and you are normally much more active, useful, and involved than you are in this one.

DEADLINE 5:00 PM CST (-6 GMT) Thursday, February 14th, 2008.

mod:

This deadline doesn't strike you as a little... no, a

lot

short? Skruffs will have been in the game for five days when this deadline hits, and ryan's replacement won't have more than a couple of days to read and respond to 10 pages. In addition, we've got a number of players who are barely involved in this game:
# Flameaxe, 13 posts, only one longer than one sentence (and that one is two sentences long).
# JDodge, 5 posts, all but one three words or less in length (and on the strength of this alone,

vote: JDodge

).
# Lowell, 9 posts, most five words in length, and two identical! This seems to be Lowell's scum play style, from the games I've been in with him before.

FOS: Lowell

.
# DeathSauce, 10 posts, and only one of those in the last three weeks. Lurking, gone, or dead.

mod, prod DeathSauce, please.

# Tobiassen didn't post at all, and Skruffs hasn't had a chance yet to post any real content.
# And, as I've already mentioned, Elmo has 8 posts, but only three of those have any worthwhile content in them. At least he's actually started playing recently. A bit.

NEED MORE REPLACEMENTS

QFT. In the meantime, other than what's above, I don't have nearly enough information to make an intelligent judgment about who scum could be, and I doubt anyone else does, either.

[Jester]

For the record, for all players not aware of this, UltimaAvalon has changed the rules for this game such that

ryan is now at L-1

. Check the rules post at the top of the game if you don't believe me. Ultima's latest vote count says "7 to lynch", but that's a lie. It's really 4 to lynch.

Please keep that in mind before voting. Keep in mind also that ryan asked for replacement, and nobody sane is going to replace into a slot likely to be immediately lynched.

::is about an inch from asking for replacement himself::

[Jester]

Oh, what a bunch of BS. Allow me to demonstrate.

As I write this, the deadline is 15 hours away.

unvote, vote ryan

. There. Now Ryan has 4 votes. Did the game just go into twilight? No, it didn't. Will ryan be lynched if I leave my vote there for a mere 15 hours?

Yes

, yes he will.

unvote, vote JDodge

Ultima is not telling the whole truth about how this last-second change to the rules works, and as far as I'm concerned, not telling the whole truth

when you're moderating a game

is as good as lying. If ryan picks up one more vote in the next 15 hours and that vote sticks, ryan gets lynched. Therefore, for the purposes of discussion, ryan is at L-1.

Setting such a freakishly short deadline, then not prodding inactive players when asked,

then

changing the deadline rules for this half-vote lynch,

then

putting that "As it currently stands, no one will be lynched at deadline." without explaining the alternatives gives the scum a free pass to lynch someone and then later be able to claim "Oh, but I didn't realize... I'm sorry..." That's why I posted my 236, and I'd do it again.

I've never been in a game on this forum where it felt to me like the mod was trying to manipulate the results. Until now.

But "As it currently stands, no one will be lynched at deadline."

Shall we give scum an advantage and no lynch, or shall we try to trim their numbers down proactively?

Oh, and speaking of which, Skruffs, two things.
a) You've never explained why you're voting for ryan in the first place. I know why JDodge is voting for him. JDodge just doesn't like ryan. I've even got a good feel for why Lowell is voting for him. Oh wait, no I don't. But why are you voting for him? Someone sounds like scum here, all right, and it ain't ryan.
b) Oh, and by the f***ing way, no you

weren't

voting for ryan,

until

your 237. UA's vote count in his 234 is wrong, and I didn't realize it until your vote. You unvoted when you found yourself on a wagon with JDodge and Lowell, remember? You expressed disgust, in fact, that you were in a wagon with JDodge and Lowell. You

didn't

revote for ryan. You just voted for him in your 237. Why?

[Jester]

You know what? I forgot for a second that mafia's supposed to be fun. This particular game decidedly is not.

unvote

replaceplzkthxbai